₦airaland Forum

Orikinla: From archeology, anthropology and ethnology of the Art and Culture of Ife, the origins have been traced to Around 350 BC and that date is centuries before Odùduwà, the son of the last Ogiso (one of the Sky Kings dynasty of Benin) ran away from Benin kingdom for the fear of his life as the only son of his father the king. His Edo name was Izoduwa meaning "I have chosen the path of prosperity", corrupted by the Yoruba's as Odùduwà). He later sent Oranyan (also known as Oranmiyan), one of his sons by the Yoruba princess Okanbi to Benin Kingdom around 1170 AD.
Oranmiyan later became the first Alafin of Oyo.

From the above chronological analysis, you can see that Odùduwà is not the father of the Yorubas, because the cradle of Yoruba civilization is Ife and not Benin. And Ife Art history is centuries older than when Odùduwà arrived from Benin Kingdom in the 10th century.

[size=14pt]"The art of Ife and Benin is so important because one gives birth to the other. The Ife art was the most ancient in the forest region of Nigeria, simply because the Ife civilisation goes as far back as 300 - 500 BC. Therefore, it had developed a lot of artefacts, which marks the history of Ife.

Ife later gave birth not only to Benin, but also to the art of Igbo, the Onitsha art, even going as far as to the hinterland of the Igbo, Igbo Ukwu."
~ Dr. Omotoso Eluyemi, director of National Museums and Monuments.[/size]

Odùduwà did not descend from any Sky on a ladder of chain. What Odùduwà said was he was a descendant of the Ogisos, the Sky Kings dynasty of Benin. But oral mythology now turned it into descending from the sky (heaven).

Even if Odùduwà was a fugitive from Mecca, then he must have come after Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim (Arabic: ابو القاسم محمد ابن عبد الله ابن عبد المطلب ابن هاشم‎; c. 570 – c. 8 June 632), popularly called Prophet Muhammad, founder of Islam.
From ethnology, there is nothing Arabian or Arabic about Odùduwà, so he did not come from Mecca, but Benin.

The Sungbo Eredo Walls discovered in the south-west of the Yoruba town of Ijebu-Ode in Ogun state is more than 160 kilometres (99 mi).
The height difference between the bottom of the ditch and the upper rim of the bank on the inner side can reach 20 metres (66 ft). And as a construction project, it required more earth to be moved than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. The Eredo was built in 800–1000 AD.

Eredo sounds more like Benin to me than Yoruba, and similar to the awesome "Iya", the Great Walls of Benin, the largest man-made structure lengthwise on earth and also the largest earthwork in the world, made up of moats and ramparts, larger than Sungbo's Eredo and longer than the famous Great Wall of China.

Case closed.

And who are u to claim Oduduwa is from Benin and Eredo sounds more Benin than Yoruba and still say case closed

All the rubbish u have here are online copy and paste from incompetent people

Do u speak Ijebu, to know that eredo doesn't sound Yoruba, or in ur dumb brain you think everything Yoruba is based on Oyo language..even at that wat do u know in Oyo language??

Stop trying to attach Oduduwa to Benin, he was not from Benin...go learn the origin of Ogiso before talking about Oduduwa

Frenchkiss564: the bolded is right but the igbo is not the ndi igbo of southwest. They are called ugbo people, they are the same people we call the ilaje people in onda state today. Ugbo kingdom is in ondo state, ife is owned by these people that is why ife is called ife ooyelugbo

And this is bullshiit

The Moremi and Ugbo vs Ife saga never indicated that Ugbo owned Ile-Ife
Ugbo were outsiders trying to take over Ife, Their attacks began long before Moremi, into the time of Oduduwa, it was Oduduwa who is first credited as the one who saved Ife from Ugbo people, after Oduduwa they thought they could have a chance again

Brymo: house of love, ile ife

Ur knowledge of Yoruba language is very poor

Ile-Ife has nothing to do with love, I wish I had Yoruba keypads to show u that you are mixing two different words together

igbodefender: Ife was founded by Igbos aboriginal to that area. Then the Yorubas took over, via Oduduwa and Queen Moremi. If the Igbo King of Ife hadn't fallen for Moremi, the secret of his warriors would not have been known to the Yorubas. Well, the rest is history.

Lol...mad man
If u have any dignity you would simply edit this post and never talk of this again.
You have been abused enough for your madness

[quote author=date1816][/quote]I know am entitled to my opinion. But don't deceive the people

Prove all what you claimed about Mohamed and stop lying

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mployer: The difference Is That You are thinking of a coming hell but Jesus Is showing You the hell within

Still can't find any difference. You preach hell so I would be afraid then you preach Jesus as the way out of hell....Fear is still the bedrock

cococandy: Not much of that is practised anymore where I come from.
Infact it is a thing of pride among the populace that at least one compound has raised a roman catholic priest. So observing such might come at the price of traveling out of my comfort zone and delving into unknown areas.


@qstar. We cool

I see, it's very sad that this happens in igboland.

date1816: What Great People said about the Prophet Muhammad PBUH?
Some of the famous, contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, could not help but admit that he was a master with excellent manners and an honorable character, and the following are some of their sayings:
Michael Hart , author of ‘The 100:
A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History’ said: "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
George Bernard Shaw, the British playwright said:
“The world is in dire need of a man with the mind of Muhammad; religious people in the Middle Ages, due to their ignorance and prejudice, had pictured him in a very dark way as they used to consider him the enemy of Christianity. But after looking into the story of this man I found it to be an amazing and a miraculous one, and I came to the conclusion that he was never an enemy of Christianity, and must be called instead the savior of humanity. In my opinion, if he was to be given control over the world today, he would solve our problems and secure the peace and happiness which the world is longing for.”
Annie Besant, wrote in ‘The Life and Teachings of Muhammad’ :
“It is impossible for anyone who studies the personality of the great Prophet of the Arabs, and come to know how this prophet he used to live, and how he taught the people, but to feel respect towards this honorable prophet; one of the great messengers whom Allaah sent”
Alphonse de La Martaine wrote in ‘Historie de la Turquie’:
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls. Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs... The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire -- that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
J.W.H. Stab wrote in ‘Islam and its Founder ’ :
“ Judged by the smallness of the means at his disposal, and the extent and permanence of the work that he accomplished, no name in world's history shines with a more specious luster than that of the Prophet of Makkah. To the impulse, which he gave, numberless dynasties have owed their existence, fair cities and stately palaces and temples have arisen, and wide provinces became obedient to the Faith. And beyond all this, his words have governed the belief of generations, been accepted as their rule of life, and their certain guide to the world to come. At a thousand shrines the voices of the faithful invoke blessings on him, whom they esteem the very Prophet of God, the seal of the Apostles… Judged by the standards to human renown, the glory of what mortal can compare with his?”
Dr. Gustav Weil writes in ‘History of the Islamic Peoples ’:
“Muhammad was a shining example to his people. His character was pure and stainless. His house, his dress, his food - they were characterized by a rare simplicity. So unpretentious was he that he would receive from his companions no special mark of reverence, nor would he accept any service from his slave which he could do for himself. He was accessible to all and at all times. He visited the sick and was full of sympathy for all. Unlimited was his benevolence and generosity as also was his anxious care for the welfare of the community.”
Th e British philosopher, Thomas Carlyle, who won the Nobel Prize for his book ‘The Heroes’ wrote:
“It is a great shame for any one to listen to the accusation that Islaam is a lie and that Muhammad was a fabricator and a deceiver. We saw that he remained steadfast upon his principles, with firm determination; kind and generous, compassionate, pious, virtuous, with real manhood, hardworking and sincere. Besides all these qualities, he was lenient with others, tolerant, kind, cheerful and praiseworthy and perhaps he would joke and tease his companions. He was just, truthful, smart, pure, magnanimous and present-minded; his face was radiant as if he had lights within him to illuminate the darkest of nights; he was a great man by nature who was not educated in a school nor nurtured by a teacher as he was not in need of any of this.”
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, the German writer said:
“Us, Europeans, with all our concepts could not reach what Muhammad has reached, and no one will be able to precede him. I have looked in the history of humanity for an example and found that it was Muhammad, as the truth must be revealed. Indeed, Muhammad succeeded to subdue the entire world to monotheism”.

1.First of all where's the proof of all this?

2. Wat rational ideas did Mohammed restore?
3. Where did Mohammed show generosity and sympathy or visit the sick?
4. What parts of the world has Mohammed subdued to monotheism?? Eastern region (China, Korea) or the West?? Even below the Sahara Africa?

This is all just plain hype and lies for Mohammed

cococandy: I'm igbo

I don't know what to feel about them because I wasn't raised with them. At best we were taught that it is voodoo or devil worship doing all those rituals and sacrifices. So growing up I felt horrified seeing people practice such.

Now that I'm older and wiser,I'm feel indifferent about them.
No loyalties and no disdain.

Ok, I was also raised to believe they were evil until curiosity and other factors drove me to it.

Maybe,you should start your observation from your own blood...your Igbo spirituality

efficiencie: how does linguistics support your assertion...

Do u deny that no one named Jesus existed

mployer: Jesus said ' I am the light of the world, He That follows me shall not walk in darkness'
He Is not here to help You escape hell, He's here to deliver You from the hell You are experiencing already. It Is called salvation.

And what's the difference with this and what I stated?

EvilBrain1: As long as they aren't portraying themselves as Sango and Yemoja, I don't see how this is disrespecting god.

and who is this impotent God that would be disrespected if they dress like Sango and Yemoja

Toks2008: All these cock and bull bruhaha.

I have read about many so called athiests,99% of them acknowledge God exstence at the moment of their death so save urselves all these rhetorics.

If you doubt me, please google the phrase Athiests who changed their beliefs before they died nd u wl b srprsed to find many who made the most noise about the non existence of God.

Most if not all of you claimn to b athiest will likely change your beliefs too.

There is a consiousness of God in everyone put in us by GOd himself. You cant fight it.

And what God is this? Jehovah or Zeus

qstar: Personally, i do not have any problem(s) with any god or gods. If i meet any god/gods after death, a conversation as this will ensue:

God(s): Boy, you're welcome.

Me: Ah! Ose jare!

God(s): You forgot to acknowledge us/me when alive.

Me: O my bad. Which of the Gods are you? So much noise i couldn't decipher the truth from the lie. So, i decided not to fall for any, in order not to be deceived.

God(s): Hahaha. I am/we are the force behind the universe. Actually, I/we permitted those noises. We/I don't interfere with the workings of the institution I/we set.

Me: Ok, so which side will i go to now? so many hells. Over 4000hells.

God(s): Oboy, go rest/sleep, abi you no dey tire?

Me:

kayustones: It is because of God's mercy that you atheists are still alive.
Even if you say that there is no God at least the occurrence of supernatural things like charm and sorts should give you an inkling that there is a realm beyond what you see. It won't be wise to ignore or deny a fact simply because you can't explain it.
Don't wait till science and other things you put your trust on fail you before you humble yourself and confess openly that there is a God

what has charms and supernatural things got to do with jehovah

cococandy: Yes I'm honest with my self.
I believe in God. I'm christain because I was born one and I like Jesus' teachings.
But I don't honestly believe that all others are condemned to hell because they are not christains.
I don't know what to make of that. But I try to understand other people's religions too whenever I come across them.

And how do u feel about your ancestral spiritual philosophies?
Btw what ethnic group do u belong?

5minsmadness: Wait, what? This your analogy makes no sense. Why didnt they just say people came out of the water or a great beast birthed them? Why the mud and the breathing of life?






So I clicked your link and looked through some but not all of the topics at random as there were too many. Earth, mud, land, rock, they all point to the same thing. Can't you see the similarity? Why didn't someone make man from water? Or air? There is a similarity in the creation story concerning man, (not the gods) no matter how bizzaire other parts of the story gets. Unless you deliberately don't want to see it.



And what do you know is "The Great Leprechaun?" If such a thing existed wouldn't it have beenemtioned in man's history? Can't you see such examples are given by atheist bodies to ridicule the idea of a supernatural being solely and so shouldn't be taken seriously?







And then what? You'll come on your knees to worship him if he does that? I doubt it. You'll probably go on about how its a hoax and how the Americans have devised a means to brainwash the masses. Besides God tried numerous times in the past to communicate directly with man, man simply goes 'wow' and then forgets after some time.

All religion, although diverse, have a common similarity. There is a God. That God may have demigods under him or send out emmissaires or have a Son but it still remains that there is a God. The last major spiritual upheaval is God sending his Son to die so that you can inherit eternal life in heaven. You don't need to do anything extra special like the Jews or Buddhists or Pagans. No need for any special atonement. Just believe in the salvation of God's son and be saved. So simple. Yet so difficult to follow for so many. Personally I think God has tried and if He has decided to leave us to rot in our ways I won't blame Him one bit. The bible actually warns that days like these will come when there will be a loss of faith on earth and people will be full of themselves, beat their chests and say 'there is no god.' and that the faithful should beware of those days.


I don't intend to preach or convert you to the Christian faith. I think most atheists on this forum are not angry at God per se, how can they be angry at someone they don't believe even exists . I think they are angry at the behaviour of Christians they have come across at one point or the other in their lives, or because they prayed for something and didn't get it. Is that disappointment really enough to risk your soul for?

In your search for truth through science, remember to keep an eye out for things that science cannot explain. Try not to build on science so much as it tends to shift like the wind with new evidence. Be mad at Christians and pentecostal zealots with their fire and brimstone judgmental, holier-than-thou attitude but give God himself a chance by keeping your mind open to possibilities.

Utter rubbish..the most ridiculous part is that it's all so long

Can't believe an educated man thinks the creator is one to open Facebook accounts to chat
In essence you have restricted the creator to an organic being
well that's what Christians are made to believe but it's getting too annoying, that some humans are still this foolish

A Christian would not seek reason, logic and knowledge but sink down anything he hears in church
Pathetic slowpokes

mployer: If escaping hell is your only reason for being a christian then you are probably not. Christianity is more than escaping hell, its living the invisible life of God on earth. It might not be easy for to comprehend cos u don't have what it takes to do that-the Holy Spirit.

How to convert someone to christianity lays on your preaching about Jesus and his importance
"Jesus is the only way" "the Bible is the word of God" "the word is also Jesus and Jesus is God"
"only Jesus can grant escape from hell"

Bottom line is, you still going to Preach hell to put fear in people so they can be deceived and forced into thoughts like
"what would I gain if hell is real and Jesus is truly the only saviour? I had better just convert rather than gabble this thing"

But of course this applies to those who haven't known the Christian hypocrisy and lies like so many of us today
Tomorrow would even be better as the next generation would have even less dumb Africans into such foreign bullshiit

mployer: So wrong.
Christian thrives on experience and faith.

And have you experienced Jesus? If you have, pls narrate your experience

Also let's now if this "experience".was before or after you believed in Jesus

As I always say "Experience before faith, not delusion after Faith"

truthman2012: Does Jesus exist? History supports there was a man named Jesus that came over 2000 years ago. Infact our calendar is made after him. Who was his sender and what was he sent for?

Actually, no man named Jesus existed 2000years ago

history and linguistics supports this

VLadipo: 2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And who wrote this? Men

Why trust the words of men?

ThroneofMercy: I had the opportunity to visit the palace of the present Alaafin of oyo, you might as well visit the ancient palace. I saw about 10 cars and they all have customized plate 'ORANMIYAN'. Alaafin of Oyo never became the Ooni of Ife. In fact, that's always been the reason for the supremacy tussle between both. Ooni was the most loyal and longest serving servant of okanbi. He was fortunate to be custodian of the great heritage of Oduduwa. Heirs had become uninterested in repatriation. So, the whole kin unanimously made him regent.

But you are.mistaken

Where no one denies that Alaafin is Oranmiyan...we should also take note that Ife is the seat of Oduduwa

No slave could have been put there, Adimula was not a slave, his mother was...and upon that she became the mother of the king. Why would you still hold that slave position on her or her son?? Adimula had Oduduwa's blood

When Adimula was ruling Ife, Oranmiyan was still a kid learning the ways of Ife.

And if you know Ife history well, you would know that Oranmiyan returned to Ife, where he died as King of Ife

The Ife throne is above all others in yorubaland

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They’re not happy in Gaza..
They’re not happy in Egypt.
They’re not happy in Libya.
They’re not happy in Morocco.
They’re not happy in Iran.
They’re not happy in Iraq.
They’re not happy in Yemen.
They’re not happy in Afghanistan.
They’re not happy in Pakistan.
They’re not happy in Syria.
They’re not happy in Lebanon.. SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?
They’re happy in Australia.
They’re happy in Canada.
They’re happy in England.
They’re happy in France.
They’re happy in Italy.
They’re happy in Germany.
They’re happy in Sweden.
They’re happy in the USA.
They’re happy in Norway.
They’re happy in Holland.
They’re happy in Denmark.
Basically, they’re happy in every country that is not a muslim country and unhappy in every country that is a muslim country!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME? Not Islam. Not their sultan, sheik or ayatollah. Not themselves. THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN! AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like poor and backward Islam countries. THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY AND OPPRESSED (muslim countries are largest maximun prison worldwide).

efficiencie: knowledge is based on reason and evidence, beliefs are based on faith!

your beliefs are based on hope not faith. You don't have faith in what you don't know

Dapo777: Ok,u seem to be very objective when analyzing science,can u be as objective in analyzing the Bible too?

Is the Bible truth? Is it established? Can the Bible evolve? Are the descriptions of earth in the Bible still valid till date?

Please sir I want u to use the same honest scrutiny u used in analyzing science to analyse the description of earth in the Bible. Do they still hold true today?
Thanks.

It's funny how this guy efficiencie Ignored this like every other Christian.

truthman2012: The OP is full of intelligent points. Every sound mind is tempted to ask such questions. But as humans, there are certain things that are beyong our knowledge and comprehension.

You don't make judgement based on the statement from one party. If God were to respond to the points raised, am so sure we shall all be speechless.

There are many events in our world that prove the existence of God. If you don't believe in miracles, which is the manifestion of the supernatural, you must believe there is dream, which science has not been able to explain.

As for you question we shall understand them better when we get to Him.

There's all the evidence for a creator, but there's no evidence for any God

Jehovah doesn't exist and that's a fact!

2sa2: She looks as scary as Bleep, in a country like Nigeria, the parents will just silently eliminate the child, but oyinbo people will not.

shut up! Who told you this rubbish??

Christianity nd Islam strive on fear. They feed you fear and then control you with it

this is the bedrock of both religions

PastorAIO: I was going to address this more thoroughly but then I got distracted by what was happening on the tv screens. A whole Brazil!!! Haba!!!

Now I've forgotten what it was that I wanted to say about the post.

I guess the main point was that amongst ancient peoples religious concepts could not only be anthropomorphised but they could even incarnate and live amongst us.

Among the Yoruba Death, Disease, Loss are beings called the ajogun, they are not just abstract conditions. The ajogun also receive their share of sacrifices that are made as if they are real beings.

True! Which brings up the essence of "PERSONIFICATION" in Ancient Spiritualities

Almost nothing is literal, not even the characters...understand this and identify the personified

efficiencie: To those that assert that Gods are simply energies personified I have this concern which i would like you to address:

If God were simply energies, then by the Kalam argument these energies must have a cause and this is obvious considering that these energies were brought into existence by the big bang. Now this means that 'Gods' as defined by macof were created and are not primordial...and if these 'Gods' were the aftermath of the big bang it would amount to a dangerous error to refer to them as 'Gods'...Whatever must be called God must be the entity or phenomena that created the singularity that resulted in the big bang and this entity or phenomena must not have a cause...whatever it is, it must not have a beginning and by corollary it must not have an end!

Gods are not what you want them to be they are what they are.

Gods are personified Energies, Everything "inorganic" tends to have a personification, so I can personify what Scientist call Electrostatic potential energy as Sango

The bolded refers to what I call Olodumare. Now understanding the nature of the universe is understanding Olodumare.

Your Problem is that you are not an observer, you only listen to ur pastor and read from other men then claim you know the nature of the universe and the intensions of the creator