₦airaland Forum

plaetton: Lol.
Look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemistus_Pletho

When I first came across this historical character, a radical philosopher who stood up to challenge an established order, I felt a strangely strong affinity towards him.
During one important council, he changed his name to Plethon , held court for a thrilled audience for several days repudiating the Judeo-Christian concepts of divinity.
Much of his works paved the way for the revival of Neo-platonism ,and which , ultimately sowed the seeds of what later became known as the Renaissance era.

It was almost as if I was him and he was me, and I had been there. A deja vu of sorts.
Everything about his resume, his character, his message and his delivery speaks to me, and of me.

That is why I adopted his Name as my NL moniker, to, in his same fashion, continue to repudiate the Judeo-Christian concepts of divinity.

ladionline: Well macof, my problem is that you need to be patient and not to assume the status of an all knowing sage. If you do that, we would have no peace. You love Darwin and you don't tolerate other views. I don't believe Yoruba ancestors originated at Ile Ife, simple. Yoruba ancestors are not subjective to Ife, Ife is subjective to Yoruba ancestors.

I don't buy into the "me-too" traditions that people parrot about as History, Yoruba land exist before the ancestors came to discover it, yes, they choose Ife to be capital, agreed, but they build many other places even before a choice of capital. We even have Idofe (ife camp) and Olofe, (people that went to Ife) in my community, so why should I make my community compulsorily come from Ife to be in accord with Yoruba?

A lot of places came to be at the same time as Ife, and this places were established by the Yoruba empire builders that establish Ile Ife. Oduduwa visit and dedicated such places, and they may not even be relevant today in Yoruba history. The founders of Yoruba were explorers, okay?

Charles Darwin

I am saying I know more than Charles Darwin. I am living in the christian consciousness of being more than "conquerors of God" for instance. Knowledge is dynamic. Some future scientific discovery still elude us that may stupefy evolution, live in such consciousness and be careful of building your superstructure on contentious theories.

Not only that evolution is wrong, I know more than Charles Darwin as to my ancestors, so i know what he does not know as to the black man and a group of Africans. I am not being inspired by evolution for traditional stories that requires simple traditional approach, or competing for his theory. I am not a paleontologist or Darwinian, i am a traditionalist or creationist like my ancestors before me.

I do not need to depend on Evolution that Darwin used to answer Compte De Gobineau on his own theory of Aryan nation that he became celebrated for, for my own ancestors or for my ancient family roots. I don't see Yoruba history as a mimic for Saxon and Normans or William Norman conquer Saxony, and so, Oduduwa conquered aborigines of Ife. But I don't stop you from that.

My perspectives can be impossible for you to swallow, but for me, knowledge beats knowledge over time, find your own knowledge and take pride in it, why must you stick to the past? Why waste time interpreting Yoruba history from Charles Darwin theory? If you continue on such tempo, you will end up with "the descent of Yoruba", which is similar to Charles Darwin's descent of man. Please be unique.


Meanwhile, I don't go about reading books to sound academical, and come back to be ascetic to traditional, fixed oral data as myth, no, I am to ferret fact from sophisticated Yoruba traditions like these, which can only help me to become sophisticated too. I am talking about Yoruba tradition and sifting valuable precept from their cryptic givings, and not my own ideas, so I can use this to order my steps in view of my ancestry.

I do not expect you to believe me, I am to be believed in the distance future.
Perhaps by our children, but you can be believed now.

JMAN05: who said that that was the only verse the name appeared?

which name was He known with before Jehovah?

truthislight: I have just one question for you.

Please, what is the meaning of the word Elijah ?

*Eli-'Jah'*

please, do tell me, am waiting.

ladionline: If you are to enjoy this thread, learn to live macos alone to keep spreading his confusions. He seems intellectually challenged the way he goes about peddling crazy, mundane and repetitive history. He has a new one on how Yoruba ancestors evolve from ape-like creature. What an aberation in the name of freedom of speech. He has red rag, 'Oduduwa', 'ile-ife', God. Mention any of such or worst 'Yoruba', then he will turn out, to twist you out of tune. He is incapable of his own ideas. Yet he wanted to arrogate 'Yoruba authority' to himself. He left blank comment above because he scan through for his red-rag but there is nothing to twist. I'm avoiding his red rag. His logic often make me sick

Onliie: I'm telling you you can't hear raypower unless you tune to its frequency. So also God. God speaks, but you can't hear cause you aren't listening for him.

And God breathes. He created man in His image and likeness.

Radiowaves can't be seen by man, does not mean it can't be seen. Some animals see in infra-red, some ultraviolet. Man cannot see these waves.

Also what u call common radio frequency is radiowaves, an electromagnetic wave in the same category as visible light, cos they have the same speed. They only differ in frequnecy and wavelength. I bet u don't understand what I'm talking about. You are just wallowing in ignorance.

Katsumoto: [b]'A language family is a group of languages related by descent from a common ancestor, called the proto-language of that family. [/b]The term comes from the Tree model of language origination in historical linguistics, which makes use of a metaphor comparing languages to people in a biological family tree or in a subsequent modification to species in a phylogenetic tree of evolutionary taxonomy. All the apparently biological terms are used only in the metaphoric sense. No real biology is included in any way in the metaphor. ...... Membership of languages in the same language family is established by comparative linguistics. Daughter languages are said to have a genetic or genealogical relationship; the former term is more current in modern times, but the latter is equally as traditional.'

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Language_family.html

There is a reason why most sub-saharan languages belong to the Niger-Congo language family. There is a reason why no Sub-saharan language is a part of the Indo-European language family. It is not coincidence. You need to re-appraise this Yoruba supremacist view of life starting at Ife and apes suddenly speaking Yoruba. In this day and age, it is very narrow. Similarities in sub-saharan languages is as a result of sub-saharan people all migrating Southwards from the Sudan-Nile corridor.

Yoruba, Edo, Ijo, Igbo all have the same ancestors.

Which Ijo people claim that Oduduwa's son lived among them? The most recent wave of migration has people migrating from Ife to other parts of the SW. During this final wave of migration, the people spoke the same language albeit different dialects. They spoke Yoruba; we aren't aware of any Niger-Congo language becoming extinct with Yoruba migration to the coast.

Which final migration from Waddai to Ijebu are you referring to?

Katsumoto: [b]'A language family is a group of languages related by descent from a common ancestor, called the proto-language of that family. [/b]The term comes from the Tree model of language origination in historical linguistics, which makes use of a metaphor comparing languages to people in a biological family tree or in a subsequent modification to species in a phylogenetic tree of evolutionary taxonomy. All the apparently biological terms are used only in the metaphoric sense. No real biology is included in any way in the metaphor. ...... Membership of languages in the same language family is established by comparative linguistics. Daughter languages are said to have a genetic or genealogical relationship; the former term is more current in modern times, but the latter is equally as traditional.'

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Language_family.html

There is a reason why most sub-saharan languages belong to the Niger-Congo language family. There is a reason why no Sub-saharan language is a part of the Indo-European language family. It is not coincidence. You need to re-appraise this Yoruba supremacist view of life starting at Ife and apes suddenly speaking Yoruba. In this day and age, it is very narrow. Similarities in sub-saharan languages is as a result of sub-saharan people all migrating Southwards from the Sudan-Nile corridor.

Yoruba, Edo, Ijo, Igbo all have the same ancestors.

Which Ijo people claim that Oduduwa's son lived among them? The most recent wave of migration has people migrating from Ife to other parts of the SW. During this final wave of migration, the people spoke the same language albeit different dialects. They spoke Yoruba; we aren't aware of any Niger-Congo language becoming extinct with Yoruba migration to the coast.

Which final migration from Waddai to Ijebu are you referring to?

Ukuts gp: from the bible

engrtee: Pagans aree their own problem. Why cant they come out strongly to evangilse
why are native doctors shrine hidden in remote villages not openly .
Why dont shrine have address?

Onliie: who is this guy? You're arguing without adequate knowledge. I'm a physicist. I know what I'm talking about. Nuclear reactions destroy atoms. Releasing a large amount of energy in the process. The number of atoms before fission is greater then the number of atoms after fission.

Onliie: who is this guy? You're arguing without adequate knowledge. I'm a physicist. I know what I'm talking about. Nuclear reactions destroy atoms. Releasing a large amount of energy in the process. The number of atoms before fission is greater then the number of atoms after fission.

Onliie:

1. Dog breathes so a dog is also a man

2. Why do mechanised industry make things with machines, why don't they build all cars from the scratch without using machines?

3. So you agree RAYPOWER fm speaks? How come I've not heard raypower today?

4. So raypower fm hides from people like me?

Gombs: The traditional religion is less than half a generation away from being wiped out....


Why?

Because Jesus reigns...now and forever.


Pagan 9ja, I'm sure your kids won't follow your suit.

Katsumoto: Don't introduce notions into my posts in a bid to weaken it. I didn't state that Igbo, Ijo, or Edo were from Ife. I stated that linguists believe the Yoruba sparated from the Igbo, Ijo, Edo approximately 3,000 years ago. You can hold on to your Yoruba supremacist views; that's your prerogative but in the face of known migratory patterns, it is false. Every language has an origin and it doesn't exist in isolation. All languages belong to a language tree and these language trees provide clues about migratory patterns of all groups.

Migration from Ife doesn't mean there weren't other Yoruba groups who never set foot in Ife. Perhaps you guys want to start arguing that the Ijebu are not Yoruba.Ife is the beginning of Yoruba civilization, spirituality, societal structures and kingdom building but Ife is not the beginning of Yoruba. You can take that to the bank.

Katsumoto: Don't introduce notions into my posts in a bid to weaken it. I didn't state that Igbo, Ijo, or Edo were from Ife. I stated that linguists believe the Yoruba sparated from the Igbo, Ijo, Edo approximately 3,000 years ago. You can hold on to your Yoruba supremacist views; that's your prerogative but in the face of known migratory patterns, it is false. Every language has an origin and it doesn't exist in isolation. All languages belong to a language tree and these language trees provide clues about migratory patterns of all groups.

Migration from Ife doesn't mean there weren't other Yoruba groups who never set foot in Ife. Perhaps you guys want to start arguing that the Ijebu are not Yoruba.Ife is the beginning of Yoruba civilization, spirituality, societal structures and kingdom building but Ife is not the beginning of Yoruba. You can take that to the bank.

nwuyag: My observation.
Atheism is quite false. It stems from the ridiculous beliefs and practices of religions.
That does not still completely removes (the possibility of) the exixtence of a creator.
Christians hide under this general cover of the existence of a being. But reading their proof(the bible) and beliefs. You begin to ask whether this being exists. If you study the bible well and study the jewish tradition and history properly, then you will realise that somethings arent right. Just like jews arguing on the existence of god as amadioha.

Divepen: im sorry sir u want to argue Yiruba gods wit a student of yoruba..
I was talkn to Nairaland Paganz like u

NativeBoy: To respect the OPs wishes, I will stay out if this thread, but I would not let macof get away with his comment. It is a fundamental error some make. Just because something is documented in the bible doesn't mean it is endorsed by God.

That's all I have to say. Please continue this thread. I'm curious to know what conclusions will be reached knowing that some of you are abroad and others are in Nigeria. Will it be that some will accept homosexuality, incest, etc since they live in the west and thereby whatever the white man espouses must be good for us all and we backward africans must espouse as well.

Katsumoto: I already provided that the female Oduduwa being referred to in Ketu must be Oduduwa's grand-daughter who sired the first Alaketu or married the first Alaketu. Everything else you stated is in line with my posts. For me, it matters where Oduduwa is from because it establishes, for me, the period of his reign. It is precisely why I don't believe the Middle Eastern origins of Oduduwa as held by some Yoruba historians and Dierk Lange. According to the arabian tales held by Muslims in Northern Nigeria and Mali, Oduduwa is said to be the son of Sargon, but Sargon II ruled about 600 BC. Did Oduduwa live for 1800 years? That story has many holes.

For me, the Bini story is most plausible. For the Bini story to be untrue, Oduduwa himself would have had to have been a fraud. That is, he would have had to have pretended to be the lost Bini prince, when in fact, he wasn't.

And Ife is not the beginning of Yoruba. Your holding on to Ife being the beginning of Yoruba is biased because you are from Ife. Ife birthed many other Yoruba kingdoms through Oduduwa's offspring. Yoruba spirituality birthed in Ife. The history of the Niger-Congo language family puts the Yoruba separating from the Igbo, Edo, Ijo about 3000 years ago. This predates Oduduwa.

Divepen: i knw dat all atheist or pagan were once christain..

Mayb because e refused to answer some certain prayaz and u termed im as not existing

Mayb because e has bn spkin to others and in desperation u thnk they r ol lyin

mayb u were deep in sin and u thnk...Can God forgv me..then somethn made u blv it was ur mind and u said God can never exist if not e wud hav destroyd me


but here is another chance to come to you..
1John 1:8 says if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us...
Isaiah said if ur sin is as red as scarlet he is ready to forgive you

Katsumoto: Let's not conflate mythology with accepted reality in other to term it all mythology. You rightly stated that noble families had poets and bards whose jobs were to embellish and create legends of their sponsors.

1. The female Oduduwa is mythical. Similar to the Oduduwa that climbed down a chain. Most historians agree Oduduwa was male. Whilst you may not agree that Oduduwa was Ekaladerhan, there is sufficient evidence from both Ife and Bini sources to conclude that there was a man called Oduduwa. Bini has no reason to lie about a Chief Oliha traveling to Ife to request for Oduduwa to assume the throne of his fathers. It is another argument whether the man they met at Ife was in fact Ekaladerhan. Both Bini and Ife agree that there was a man called Oduduwa. Ife doesn't exactly date Oduduwa's reign but Bini dates it at 12th/13th century based on the time of Oranmiyan in Bini and the birth of Oba Eweka. [left][/left]

Katsumoto: 2. It may be difficult to date pre-christ Yoruba migrations/life/etc but it's not that difficult with Yoruba 1000 years ago. We can't place Adam & Eve in the same category as Sango/Ajaka. As in one above, Ajaka and Sango were sired by Oranyan. It is universally accepted that Sango's mother is Tapa and he lived with his mother's people until he was called by the Oyo mesi to rescue Ajaka from the Owu. Ife and Bini historians agree that Oranyan was the father of Eweka, Ajaka, and Sango. There is a reason why Ife and Bini argue about who is who's father. Ife states that it sired Bini because Oranyan's son became King and Bini states that it sired Ife because Ekaladerhan/Oduduwa was king at Ife.

Katsumoto: 3. Very important - Oduduwa is not the progenitor of the Yoruba and that is why Ijebu reference does not go to him. Oduduwa being present at the creation of the world is Ife mythology. It is not Yoruba mythology. The battles between Oduduwa and Obatala has both real and mythological versions. Mythology - 1) Oduduwa was female and Obatala's wife 2) Oduduwa climbed down a chain and completed the job Olodunmare asked Obatala to do (create the world), hence the feud between them. Reality - Oduduwa met Obatala at Ife and fought him. There are various versions of this battle. 1) The people revolted and made Oduduwa king (Bini version) 2) Oduduwa invaded with a party (Ife), hence the celebration of this battle at Ife. Oduduwa's children established many kingdoms, hence why his version of creation is told in most places. Ifa was present at Ife through Orunmila and it is said that Ifa foretold of Oduduwa's emergence. Obayemi's works is proof of Yoruba pre-dating Oduduwa. Yoruba history is similar to British history. The creation of the start of the British nation is credited to Saxons. They came with their language and the first English kings were Saxons. But there were Britons on the island before the Saxon invasion.

Katsumoto: 4. We should not class everything as myth simply because there is some embellishment. We must try to identify what is real and ignore the legends. To doubt Oduduwa is to doubt Oranmiyan, Eweka, Sango and all the kings who came after them. I am not really trying to convince you but only that you need to come up with something stronger than the notion that since there is some myth, then everything must be mythology. There is mythology about Sango but should we doubt his existence as well? There is mythology about Odysseus but his existence is confirmed in Greek, Turkish, and Italian history. And while there is some controversy about his father, it is generally accepted that Laertes was his father.

Katsumoto: Let's not conflate mythology with accepted reality in other to term it all mythology. You rightly stated that noble families had poets and bards whose jobs were to embellish and create legends of their sponsors.

1. The female Oduduwa is mythical. Similar to the Oduduwa that climbed down a chain. Most historians agree Oduduwa was male. Whilst you may not agree that Oduduwa was Ekaladerhan, there is sufficient evidence from both Ife and Bini sources to conclude that there was a man called Oduduwa. Bini has no reason to lie about a Chief Oliha traveling to Ife to request for Oduduwa to assume the throne of his fathers. It is another argument whether the man they met at Ife was in fact Ekaladerhan. Both Bini and Ife agree that there was a man called Oduduwa. Ife doesn't exactly date Oduduwa's reign but Bini dates it at 12th/13th century based on the time of Oranmiyan in Bini and the birth of Oba Eweka. [left][/left]

Katsumoto: 2. It may be difficult to date pre-christ Yoruba migrations/life/etc but it's not that difficult with Yoruba 1000 years ago. We can't place Adam & Eve in the same category as Sango/Ajaka. As in one above, Ajaka and Sango were sired by Oranyan. It is universally accepted that Sango's mother is Tapa and he lived with his mother's people until he was called by the Oyo mesi to rescue Ajaka from the Owu. Ife and Bini historians agree that Oranyan was the father of Eweka, Ajaka, and Sango. There is a reason why Ife and Bini argue about who is who's father. Ife states that it sired Bini because Oranyan's son became King and Bini states that it sired Ife because Ekaladerhan/Oduduwa was king at Ife.

Katsumoto: 3. Very important - Oduduwa is not the progenitor of the Yoruba and that is why Ijebu reference does not go to him. Oduduwa being present at the creation of the world is Ife mythology. It is not Yoruba mythology. The battles between Oduduwa and Obatala has both real and mythological versions. Mythology - 1) Oduduwa was female and Obatala's wife 2) Oduduwa climbed down a chain and completed the job Olodunmare asked Obatala to do (create the world), hence the feud between them. Reality - Oduduwa met Obatala at Ife and fought him. There are various versions of this battle. 1) The people revolted and made Oduduwa king (Bini version) 2) Oduduwa invaded with a party (Ife), hence the celebration of this battle at Ife. Oduduwa's children established many kingdoms, hence why his version of creation is told in most places. Ifa was present at Ife through Orunmila and it is said that Ifa foretold of Oduduwa's emergence. Obayemi's works is proof of Yoruba pre-dating Oduduwa. Yoruba history is similar to British history. The creation of the start of the British nation is credited to Saxons. They came with their language and the first English kings were Saxons. But there were Britons on the island before the Saxon invasion.

Katsumoto: 4. We should not class everything as myth simply because there is some embellishment. We must try to identify what is real and ignore the legends. To doubt Oduduwa is to doubt Oranmiyan, Eweka, Sango and all the kings who came after them. I am not really trying to convince you but only that you need to come up with something stronger than the notion that since there is some myth, then everything must be mythology. There is mythology about Sango but should we doubt his existence as well? There is mythology about Odysseus but his existence is confirmed in Greek, Turkish, and Italian history. And while there is some controversy about his father, it is generally accepted that Laertes was his father.