₦airaland Forum

KidStranglehold: Thanks.


1. Okay, now I understand what you mean.

True the Kushites were successful at not only preventing the Romans from conquering them, but also preventing the Romans from expanding more into Africa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DR6Q2E08xls

2. The Greeks didn't influence Africans or Western Europeans. And you forget the Greeks were influenced by Asians and Africans themselves. They had more contact with Asians and Africans. Heck Europe as a whole was greatly influenced by Asians, even during pre-history.

3. Again the Macedonian empire at its peak never expanded into Europe. Which is my main point.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Diadochi_satraps_babylon.png

They never even conquered the Italy or Iberia. I already know about them conquering Persia and Kemet. But thats not my main point. My point is the Macedonian empire at its peak never extended into most of Europe. So how can one say the Greeks influenced Western Civilization? I never said certain parts of the world weren't influenced by the Greeks, my point was that the Greeks never directly influenced Western Civilization. Again it was the Romans. Also you and other people forget that the Greeks were influenced by both Asians and Africans. The Greeks even acknowledged the Kemet influence in some of their writings. That's why I say the Greeks are a bit overrated...No offense. Yes I know how good the Greeks were, not discrediting that, but you have to remember the Greeks were influenced by other people themselves, so how can the be the most influential people?

4. Never denied that...But the Romans never conquered Persia like the Greeks did.

5. I can say no one in Asia knew about the Romans or Greeks. And yes the Romans certainly did know about the Chinese, because the Romans wanted Chinese silk. If anything, the Chinese contributed way more than the Romans or Greeks...The long list of Chinese inventions is just crazy...Everything from the fork, to cannons, gunpowder, printing, paper, wheel barrow, iron and steel, fireworks, matches, chess, card games, clocks, plows, and hoes, astronomical observatories, circulation of bodily fluids, seismographs, compass, water tight boats, large naval boats, suspension bridges, man made canals, the great wall, wooden pagodas, winnowing fan, oil and gas usage and drilling, sunspots, solar wind, maps, crank handle, bells and drums, water power, belt drive, steam engine, underwater salvaging, beer, fishing reel, stirrups, porcelain, pest control, chemical warfare, umbrella, brandy and whiskey, negative numbers, decimal system, decimal fractions, earth's magnetic field, hot air balloons, rudders, propeller, crossbows, flame throwers, flares, land mines, rockets, and much more.

Its the longest continuing civilization. Oldest continuous written language as Sanskrit, cuneiform and hieroglyphics are all dead languages, and oldest continuous calendar as Mayans, Aztecs, Indians, and Sumerian calendars died out thousands of years ago.

Most people are ignorant about China, but it has the most interesting and unbroken history spanning 5000 years....And it is the cradle of four of the greatest inventions to have huge impact on the developments of mankind's history: Compass, gunpowder, paper and printing.

But IMO the greatest contribution was the the creation of the Silk Route spanning 8000 km all the way to the port of Alexandria, the Roman Empire and Egypt. It also had a big impact on how trades between East and West were later developed.

IMO thats influence...

6. I stand corrected.

Thanks for ur contribution.
Am now interested in ancient China, I would try to get books to read on them.
I have always loved Japanese and am currently into Shinto.

These Chinese seem cool

On ur assertion of the invention of gun powder maybe in Asia but in Africa it was the fon people of dahomey who the Yoruba learnt firearms and guns from.

kizmartino: Am nt givin man any glory..

D healing had alot to do wit him nd ntin lyk nature force..

If u study dat event,neman had no faith at all..xo nature force cnt act on ntin..

Elisha..played a huge role there

Sorry for u.
You choose to be a man honoring man personality

You give Elisha all the glory for a healing when he didn't even show up to the sick man but just tested his faith

You say neman had no faith? Are u a joker? He refused to do as Elijah advised initially cus he felt disrespected to not be attended by Elisha but a mere servant delivering the message. If he didn't have faith he wouldn't have been healed, it's common sense.

I can open a church and perform miracles, while screaming the powerless name of Jesus as long as people believe I am for real and I in High craftiness and intelligence knows that all I need is faith.

Nothing like holy spirit chatting with pastors, nothing like pastors performing miracles it's all an illusion.

The forces of nature would work whether u recognize them or not, they control ur life everyday but u are too blind to see it.

My opinion is to create one thread have different post of a category and a nominee. Then let the votes be realized through the likes the post gets

Fulaman198: What I believe is that people do not practise Christianity and Islam correctly thus people are being labeled as frauds my friend. What I do believe is that if people aim to truly practise their respective religions properly, whatever faith we follow, it should not matter.

Well I have no problem with any religion, I am open minded and learn about all religions I find interesting.

African Abrahamics however don't share my point of view, they demonize my ancestors and degrade their spirituality to demon worship, is this not illiteracy and brainwash?

I could leave people to continue believing a lie but as a good Yoruba pagan I would try to expose the truth and promote knowledge

9jacrip: Great.
I'll be back in a bit

Going to cook up more baseless theories and assumptions

9jacrip: Do not make me create it, you create it and start the argument with things you've been posting about Obatala here and I'll meet you up there.

So wats d big deal about creating a thread?
www.nairaland.com/1487566/obatala-oduduwa-ile-ife

Here it is

Rexyl: Glory be to God. Simple facts hit this man o. You miss it all, you wanted to teach what you don't know! You have just scored your first failure. Come out again and let‘s continue

And your second paragraph, a pity or a curse?
For after knowing the way and the truth you turn back to your formal state - darkness. There is no glory from falling from the grace to shame. This is a serious matter which I don't need to take lightly because you are still alive, and can still be won back to God after that great falling. After your going up and down on the earth where else have you found the grace and the word of life similar to the ones your might have known in the Bible? I had wanted to take this matter lightly but the Spirit wouldn't. Let‘s meet again for the serious discussion.

Like I have said u don't know anything about ur religion, you don't understand ur Bible and how can u when u are living in darkness and lies

kizmartino: Elisha was trying to prove something..as a servant of God,God worked miracle through his order.

Imagin what it would have been like if neman's faith was so small to attract the force of nature*in your words*

Elisha's order really had a significance.

The healing had nothing to do with Elijah, except being the giver of advise and promted neman's faith

this is the problem wit u Christians you devalue the nature forces of the universes and give men glory. Typical man worship

Bossforeva: what made christianity a religion of fraud, lie and hypocrisy, and who are the gods of my fore-fathers.

www.nairaland.com/1483214/should-read-religions

Follow this thread with an open minds, research for urself afterwards.

People are beginning to see the fraud of christianity and Islam

9jacrip: You seem stuck on regurgitating myths and folklores. When discussing history, these things you seem enthralled by are dissected and analyzed to bring forth something reasonable.

If you won't see past the spiritual philosophies and the folklores then good for you. No need to bother me around when I've told you number of times to open a different thread so we can get to it.

If you must know, Obatala was human so scrap the talk of him coming several times and hoping people would accept him. He lost to Oduduwa, was exiled, appeased to return, deified himself to an idol (the ashe he used in turning himself into a rigid solid god is still at itapa but covered with cement for preservation to avert risk because of its potency - if u need pictures just ask), in order to show his place - the structure he morphed into wears the Aare crown before any new Ooni, the Obalesun's coronation is done with so much ceremony to send a subliminal message that the office of Obalsesun and Obatala's lineage are as royal and 'mouthed' as Ooni. - just create a thread on Obatala please .

https://www.nairaland.com/1487566/obatala-oduduwa-ile-ife

Here's the thread you are agitating for,

Oya!

I have been into an argument with a self-proclaimed omo obatala, who knows much of Yoruba history tho some of his assertions of Yoruba history are based on his assumptions and late theories

As a Yoruba I know about the Ife history, but we should all try to learn more.

9jacrip claims to be an Obatala devotee(which I call a blunt lie, that only those who know nothing about obatala can believe).

So here's the main issues of debate.
1. There's no oral history that tells of Obatala living in Ife when Oduduwa arrived

2. Oduduwa didn't come from Mecca(his birth place would forever remain a mystery)

3. Oduduwa came alone, not with an army

4. Oduduwa was welcomed at first sight, and when he was confirmed to be the long waited king he became the first Ooni of Ile-Ife

5. Ifa had initially prophesied the coming of Oduduwa, and stated that Olodumare had promised make Oduduwa king of Ife

6. Would anybody have wanted to go against the will of Olodumare?

7. Oduduwa was destined to be king and the people waited for their king for years.

Anyway this topic is open for discussion

Rexyl: Not a book tells me that but the gospel and revelation of the word and plan of God for the hearts that care to seek Him. God knows His works, His words received by inspiration have to be documented and kept for meditation on daily basis - the word that does no harm to anyone. Because we were made lower than the angels and do not have the mental capacity to memorize all His words so we need to study Him thru the documented messages that carry the truth and the life, and thru this generations have continued to receive His grace and blessings. People are called to know God and worship Him in truth and spirit if they do hope in His salvation unlike people who are being initiated into idol worshipping and divination with some preparations which are darkness to Almighty God and pose dangers to those in that line.

And to clear you confusion. Christ is the God‘s begotten son given to the world by God Himself as the only perfect sacrifice for removal and forgiveness of sins and as the link man should follow unto everlasting life. His birth was in God‘s own way thru the Jews that God made covenant of what shall for the need of the whole world including you.

I've read enough of this rubbish.

You need to free urself from darkness and see the light.
You don't even know your religion, what an idiotic fool u are(and I mean this wit all sincerity).
1. Humans are nt created lower than angels, according to the Bible humans are the apple of God's eye. The angels are nothing but messengers.
Do you know why the devil was cast out in the first place? It was all Adam's fault.

2. Half of Your Bible is false the rest are mostly mis-understood and incomplete. I know more about your Christianity than you can imagine, I have lived it, believed it and preached it. I can make u see the light only if u open ur mind, are u ready?

Cabsso: 1minute silent for dis guy cos his as gud as a dead man.

Alfa wud have words for u

9jacrip: Bro, this thread is solely based on analytical discourse not for us to reiterate myth, folklore, eulogies and stories.

A quick question: If Ife accepted Oduduwa with open arms as you have claimed then why the need to exile Obatala? (which is re-enacted in the Itapa festival).

Obatala wanted to take the throne

As I've said before Obatala came to earth many times hoping the peoples would make him king before Oduduwa came

hercules07: When the guy no be methuselah, most of my exposure is through revd. Johnson and those learned in school.

I beg u nt to rely on what u learn in school.

When it comes to ancient Yoruba, these western style schools teach poo

9jacrip: 1. I have not come across much books/texts on Obatala, the ones I've read seem to regurgitate the same thing. I have had to rely on what my people back home tell me - I gather the details from each an everyone then I circle the mostly repeated part of the details which appears reasonable. I'm still looking on research works that dig deeper into topics of such nature.

2. Based on my own analysis, Oduduwa must have employed the use of force/army to seize power. Else, I wouldn't think anyone would be willing to submit their throne/sovereignty to a stranger, yes? I'd like to reference Itapa festival, there's a part where Oduduwa and Obatala wrestled and Oduduwa's victory meant Obatala's exile from Ife. This wrestle match could be interpreted to mean the use of force at some point.

i. From the account of Obatala getting drunk on palm wine, it is said that Oduduwa took the materials needed for creation and led the 16 oye delegation to the world to begin the process.

ii. The account of Oduduwa's migration from Mecca states he had a large following, some who settled at Gobir but Oduduwa led the remaining group to Ife where he seized power.

iii. The last theory of Obatala coming from Ora Hills in Ile-Ife states that he came in with a band and usurped.

I cited all of the above to show Oduduwa must have used force to seize power and as a result of this he and his brigands, if from Benin as claimed, would have left some footprints from Benin politics and culture to mention a few. You would agree with me that being at the position of power, the culture of wherever he must have been from wouldnot just fade away without traces, they would point somewhere - no matter how rough his migration or descent from heaven might have been.

For me, since Clapperton, Sultan of Sokoto and Johnson helped to propagate the Oduduwa came from then 'east' theory which doesn't hold water really, I still wouldn't take the Benin theory because the premise is faulty. The people of Ife's account from time immemorial was Odudwa's descent from heaven (which could mean they do not know have a record of where he came from, hence, ascribing him to heaven OR just to build a cult aura around his person). Lastly on this, Ifa mentions Oduduwa but would have pointed at Benin if really Oduduwa was from Benin because it was the same Ifa who pointed Oranmiyan to be sent to Benin.

4. I have never heard of Orelu Ore my brother, this is new to me and I'd do my research on it. (asked my parents about it last night, they said they've never heard such). Would you mind providing links to where you got that from before I do further findings?

Finally, I would not go with the Benin version because its premise is shaky (clapperton, sultan and Johnson were the propagators of east migration which has been debunked but usurped by Benin historians). For me, Obatala to Oduduwa's period marked a shift/change in the socio-political sphere in Ile-Ife which has been tagged with several myths. Ife people had Osangangan Obamakin, Opereti, Awurebe, Omogberaye has kings way before Obatala/Oduduwa's period, so it is likely they had a shift in the kingship structure and it became much more cohesive and defined. I would suggest wherever Oduduwa came from be left open and not ascribed to anywhere at all. Who knows, he might have come from Ile-Ife since the settlements were scattered.

If u knew Yoruba history as much as u claim you wouldn't assume that Oduduwa forced Ife.
most of ur assertions are based on assumptions

He was welcome right on sight and when he was confirmed to be the long waited Oduduwa, he was made king

Ifa never stated any birthplace of this coming king, All Ifa says is that Olodumare promised to make Oduduwa first king of ile-ife, it was up to Oduduwa to prepare and pick a date to come to Aye and fulfill what Ifa had said.

Rexyl: Thank God for locating this place where the word of God in truth and pure form is taught every Sunday. Your pagan deities know the truth and the word of God, to which they are bowed to eternity. Amen

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So a book tells u a Jew is Lord, that u must worship him and You just believe. your religion is purely for the low minded

Apart from Airtel, which other network is bis on Android possible?

Actually I was not ban. I've been busy with some pagan things lately

kizmartino: Mind you..neman may not had get his healing if he just went to jordan without elisha's instruction..

Elisha just help him channel his faith in the right direction..that's why religious leaders are important though they may not be special but they've got a calling nd are gifted at least some

Lol very funny, you mean Elisha mentioning river Jordan suddenly gave the river healing powers

trigar12: Sorry for the false alarm, it has started working

which network? Mtn?

holypower: For whosover that believeth not in HIM is condemned already
all muslim have heard about JESUS CHRIST...jeard and experience HIS powers and miracles done in the name of JESUS CHRIST

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9). But if you believe not that GOD raised HIM from the dead you are condemned already.
No matter the popularity, Christians are more popular than islam yet 98 percent goes to hell yet call themselves Christian talk more of islam

See this Vatican rugdust.

You better gain your independence, I don't think Heaven is for those living in mental slavery

kizmartino: I understand you very much..and appreciate your ideas..

But I will still say that pastors,imam etc and religion are very much needed because faith alone can not work wonders there must be a super natural spiritual force,i do not mean forces of nature etc...
God works wonders through His servants..

Yed God works wonders through his servants, which everyone is.

Pastors are not better humans than you, half of them are even low life fraudsters and hypocrites.

You would still get ur miracle it's all about faith.

remember the story of Neman the leper who was asked to wash himself in the river Jordan? You think Elishah couldn't have prayed fire and lightening to come down to heal the man.

He simply tested his faith by asking him to wash in a river.

River Jordan was just a river, no extra spiritual force embedded in it, other the natural energy responsible for rivers and seas(which is Yemoja). All yemoja did was connect the energy he projeted from his faith into healing.

Drugs carry no special thing, if you are not blessed by the supernatural forces of the universe no healing can come.

The only thing is that for healing/miracle to occur there has to be a point of contact, that's where the priest can come in, it is only when you don't know what to do that someone you consider wiser than you is needed.

If neman had thought that washing in the river Jordan would bring his healing would he have gone to Elisha?

This is one complex issue in Yoruba philosophy and spirituality

Heaven, the abode of God is where everyone wants to return to.

Heaven is our true home, we are only here on a mission.

The ancient Yoruba looked forward to returning to heaven to meet with the ancestors and live among the gods in the glory of God.

Now I would start using Yoruba terms

Orun which is the unseen spiritual realm is the source of the Universe created by Olodumare. Olodumare is believed to have created Orun and created Awon Orisha who control the universe according to the Universal law of nature.

Olodumare can be referred to as Olorun-owner of Heaven

Olofin-owner of the Law

Olodumare is the energy behind the creation of the universe, and the place where best glows in glory is Orun Rere

This brings me to the issue of two heavens

I have come across theories of Orun Rere and Orun Buru.

I don't know much about this but common sense would drive one to believe

Orun Rere is heaven and Orun Buru is hell.

I don't think ancient Yoruba believed in hell and my guess is that this idea of Orun rere and Orun buru is made by the influence of Islam and Christianity.

Ikole Orun(structure of the spiritual realm) and Ikole Aye(structure of the physical realm) are the two realms which everyone knows about.

ewo wa ni orun meji ti won gbe wa?

Does Ifa say anything about another spiritual realm which is not favorably as the Abode of Olorun?

Awon Ara Ikole-Orun include Egugun, Ori, Orisha, Irunmole and Emi. Whereas Awon Ajogun manifest and patrol Ikole Aye permanently.

I honestly don't know much about the Yoruba concept of Orun and those in it but I would like this to be an open discussion

Rexyl: You are welcome. Pls define who you are before I begin to reply you. I know you are hooked already by the gospel of the Lord our savior! Just like Apostle Paul.

lol you live in lies and fraud.

Anyway I am Yoruba pagan

Mtn bis doesn't work on.Android

Rexyl: Today’s topic is “A Renewed Mind”, a believer that has been transformed after surrendering his life to God is given the power to live with a renewed mind. The spiritual transformation comes through continual submission to the Lord Jesus Christ. This spiritual transformation brings a dramatic and remarkable change that is supernatural; a change of life that makes a believer live for God. Romans 12:2 ‘Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God’. This lesson takes us through the following: renew your mind; put on the new self and strife to know Christ fully

Apostle Paul pleaded with the believers that they should present themselves as a living sacrifice to God for their services to be acceptable to Him. The Bible makes it known that sacrifice involves surrendering something in order to obtain a reward. A sacrifice can be made financially, materially and even a person can sacrifice his time to pursue an important goal. God offered Jesus as the only sacrifice for all sinners to obtain forgiveness and receive His salvation (John 1:29). God offered Jesus to take the punishment of our sins so that we can receive forgiveness and His grace. As we enjoy the grace, God wants us to continue in obedience to His word and serve Him in purity and holiness.

The world is corrupt and many people take delight in pleasures to satisfy their heart desires; many of which lead to violent behaviors, sorrows, evil thoughts and separation from God. But in all these God transforms us and makes His Spirit available to lead us through the path of righteousness where we can experience His goodness, acceptable and perfect will for our lives.

The renewed mind is Christ-centered, and it is based on this we can put on the new life. With the new life we are no longer under the control of evils of the world. Instead we are liberated to follow the guidance of Holy Spirit that will enable us to become increasingly like Christ, and make us walk in the light of God and pursue holiness. Holiness can be described as a string that connects us with God, without it the relationship cannot be sustained.

Our staying in Christ is what reveals God’s glory to us; therefore we must always strife to know Christ fully. Apostle Paul described his experience with God through his relationship with Christ;that all his wealth, position and knowledge were like animal dung the moment he knew Christ and experienced his glory (Philippians 3: He became thoroughly transformed and his priorities were no longer the same again. He was overwhelmed by the tremendous blessings of knowing the savior and he was willing to give up everything including his life to follow the Lord and be in the ministry.

Despite Paul tremendous achievements he did not see himself as a person that has arrived. He was pressing hard to know Christ better,and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings. Likewise we must follow Paul’s example so that we can live to draw closer to God every day we are alive. Christian life should be characterized by a dynamic, growing journey with God by following the footsteps of Christ, our savior. May God help us. Lesson texts: Romans 12: 1-3; Ephesians 4: 17-24; Philippians 3: 7-16

Lol gullible u

Paul didn't know any yeshua, He served Mithra and so do all Christians

Bossforeva: what made you think u were devoted, and when did you drifted to paganism? I want to know the foundation that led to this falsehood.

I left the religion of fraud, lies and hypocrisy ending of last year but I joined the belief of my ancestors some months ago.
And there's no falsehood in paganism whereas Abrahamic religions are the worse things to happen to the world with their false assimilation and fraud beginning.

The world would one day know the fraud of christianity and paganism shall reign supreme. You never understand paganism until you open your mind to it

Repent! Repent! And knowledge the gods of your ancestors

loving the thread egbon mi

ababda: At the same time you need to ask yourself, Was West Africa populated back then? and by whom besides the Nok people which has a precarious origin. Also let not believe that the population is somehow static with the same ethnicity of people. I always wanted to ask this question, Do you believe that West Africans came from the ancient Kingdom of Meroe? I know most of you don't know about that. LOL

Nok and Ife culture for one have amazing similarities

The Nok most have migrated from Ife but pushed southwards

My reason for opening the thread is for people who are knowledgeable about Roman and Greek history which you seem to be

1. The Romans conquered 70% according to their knowledge of population/land mass of the earth. They didn't tour the whole world as wr know it today but everywhere they knew fell to them. The Nubians were smart and powerful enough to prevent them from going further into Africa

2. Ancient Greece did influence world concepts both in language and philosophy, the latinos might have influenced more on western languages but Greek cannot be put aside. The greeks remain the most influential people of all time.

3. Macedonia under Philip conquered most parts of southern Europe, and Alexander moved further to Kemet and other parts of Northern Africa including power Persia and they ruled most of Western and Central Asia. Alexander was once referred to as pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and Lord of Asia. You think those parts of the world weren't greatly influenced by the greeks? Or what about the Romans who were Greeks biggest fans? Even today many scientific theories and philosophies are following up on the greeks.
Greece is in no way overrated, read about the 300years of the Hellenistic period of how even after the death of Alexander, Greeks still continued to dominate their (former) colonies.

4. Rome took over from where Greece stopped, and.acquired even more in terms of military conquest. Greece had initially 5.2 million square km and Romans topped that. The Romans believed they owned the world.

5. As to ancient china being more advanced I do not know but no one outside their region ever knew of them, that's a big minus

6. I don't think the greeks adopted the worship of Isis, Alexander honored the godess but just as the pharaoh of Egypt, the Greek nation didn't worship any non-Greek deity. It was the Romans that adopted her worship.