₦airaland Forum

[quote author = Wyttcat]you always want to steal some credits from Yoruba and give it to benin to protect your interest. If you can't agree that Yoruba owns the oba stool in Benin, what do you have to say?[/quote] this one has been dreaming about me
cus only in your dreams could this happen

Wyttcat:
I'm going to be here to bust your lies as long as I want. Maybe you should get a job to improve your self esteem.

You gave yourself out as most likely to be a cross breed of the two tribes that hate and are obsessed with Yoruba.

I don't need to claim to be Yoruba, leave that to anyone more Yoruba than I am here to take up, it's now your backcase. Ask the Yoruba that are teaching you the "ta ta ta" you know and they will tell you that ABINIBI(me) is different from ABILITY(you) You didn't know Adimula, Yoruba is NOT your mother tongue

oya madam commander in chief of Yorubaland, Empress of Oduduwa


just tell us the etymology of Adimula and let me rest, since yoruba is your mother tongue

Reyginus:
I hope this argument doesn't go like the fruitless one I had with FOLYKAZE last time where he illogically tried to remove Christianity from Spirituality even when it's obvious he doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the terms?

My question was/is simply what is divine? Is ATR divine? Is this very hard to understand or answer you are trying to be mischievous like your brother in ATR tried last time? A simple yes or no will do. Go ahead and stop trying to confuse yourself.

I know your case is willful ignorance

you are the mischievous one here, you only pick a part of the definition and throw the other part out.

scroll up and see my definition. ..you can repost if you like and ask your question based on the complete definition given

Ubenedictus:
Becos the bini believe blood is a powerful.
Oramiyan may not have appreciated d complex bini government, culture, or social stuff and title, infact the last ogiso was unpopular, but all that not withstanding he is a desendant of the ogiso and so links both dynasties.

Blood is a powerful link for d binis.

will you keep quiet! oranmiyan descendant of Owodo? you can lie


oranmiyan was the last son of Oduduwa.
and oduduwa before becoming Ooni was a local yoruba man living with his clan on the hill called Oke-Ora at the outskirts of Ile-Ife towards Ijesa.

your ignorance in Yoruba history coupled with the fact that many yoruba due to not being brought up the traditional way don't know core historical details, makes you cook up all sorts of fantasies and call them yoruba history.

you should be making research on where your prince elekaderan died

Muafrika2:
That may have been the case. Religion and culture could not be separated - because culture is an expression of beliefs. However, in our age religion seems to be one thing and cultural values another. So its possible. Also, the structure of the society has changed to the extent that African religious practices and beliefs are not practical for the most part.

For example:
It's African culture to take care of old parents. Someone, explaining to me why traditionally it is so, said the parents are your gods on earth. That's culture with a religious aspect. We can have the care without the spiritual reverence though. We can live in peace and as one without blood covenants, sacrifices and rituals used for the same traditionally. The culture here would be strong suppotive communities. We can go to war without taking oath. Just the same way other aspects of culture have evolved (planting, naming, circumcision, burial) have continued but without the spirituality that was involved before.

The imposition of the European civilization that emphasises on individual effort and less spirituality has made the society rethink about the purpose of some aspects of traditional religion. Let's also not forget that African spirituality was not just bound to culture, but to economic activities, and things like architecture. Pastoralist communities have religious beliefs that involve pastoralism and their animal's. I've seen (on TV) maasai possessed by spirits that sounded and made them act like cows, farmers had similar attachments/beliefs concerning certain crops, land etc. Now, farming and cattle keeping are mostly business ventures.

In my community for example, there was a certain emphasis on building materials, building plans, even builders. The use of the circle for instance. Circular huts, roofs, compound and neighbourhood, dancing, et cetera.(Come to think of it, the obsession with the circle looks a bit occultic). It's impossible to revive all those. Have you noticed that diviners who are still surviving will have a traditional basic material structure in their compound specifically for their spiritual divination. Frankly, we'd have to invent new gods to accommodate the radical transformations that the society has since gone through.

it's not every time we say "God" or speak of the divine that we are practicing religion

sometimes it's just the Awe inspired by the way Nature works

the ancient Greeks or Yorubas certainly never had the practice of religion as a big part of their society despite making huge reference to the divine


same can be said of modern turkey, they call Allah all the time, study islam but don't follow it like their lives depended on it

Max Müller characterized many other cultures around the world, including Egypt, Persia, and India, as having a similar power structure at this point in history. What is called ancient religion today, they would have only called "law". [21]


Many languages have words that can be translated as "religion", but they may use them in a very different way, and some have no word for religion at all. For example, the Sanskrit word
dharma , sometimes translated as "religion", also means law. Throughout classical South Asia, the study of law consisted of concepts such as penance through piety and ceremonial as well as practical traditions . Medieval Japan at first had a similar union between "imperial law" and universal or "Buddha law", but these later became independent sources of power.
[22][23]
There is no precise equivalent of "religion" in Hebrew, and Judaism does not distinguish clearly between religious, national, racial, or ethnic identities. [24] One of its central concepts is "halakha", meaning the "walk" or "path" sometimes translated as "law", which guides religious practice and belief and many aspects of daily life.

@ Reyginus , @dblackninja

Reyginus:
ATR means African Traditional Religion. This implies the local religions practised in Africa before foreign religions came in. So, does it relate to the divine?

The Latin term religio, origin of the lexeme "religion" means "strict obligation to an institution" this is not Isese. ..this doesn't mean that religion cannot be made out of Isese


google it if you like.

The medieval usage alternates with "order" in designating bonded communities like those of monastic orders : "we hear of the 'religion' of the Golden Fleece, of a knight 'of the
religion of Avys'"
In the ancient and medieval world, the etymological Latin root religio was understood as an individual virtue of worship, never as doctrine, practice, or actual source of knowledge. The modern concept of "religion" as an abstraction which entails distinct sets of beliefs is a recent invention


so don't be arrogant and indulge in willful ignorance


when next someone says african traditional religion it is really African elements of spirituality which is the culture, language, history and traditions of africa revolving around Spirituality


what would you say to languages that never even had a word for religion like Ewe and Japanese yet they practice spirituality in their native way

dblackninja:
Hmmm.. What is Orisa exactly? From what you wrote I can deduce that it implies a god since it's venerated.
Now how can you unlink the veneration of Orisa from religiosity?

an orisa is a being that is created special
the word has been used to refer to kings, great personalities, great ancestors, lesser Gods ( those beneath the Creator - Olodumare )
veneration doesn't have to be about religiosity my friend. Spirituality in africa is by Awe, not faith
or dogmatic belief that we have in religion

Reyginus:
Lololol. Does African T.R relate to the divine?

does what you call ATR encompass dogmas like Christianity?

Reyginus:
What's the Definition of Religion again, Please?

an institution of dogmas relating to the Divine


and before you jump to conclusion without knowing a thing about african elements of spirituality, lemme tell you that religion can be formed out of it but it is not religion in itself

dblackninja:
Bring back African religion? Is not yet dead anyway; we are just praying for it to die. All religion in African should be eradicated, not even quarantined because it does more harm than good (infact only harm). I hope this your question is not for thesis. Lol

As for African civilization, I believe revival of our culture, that is not influenced by religion, will be vital to it. Culture is the core of our African humanity and unlike religion could be truly syncretized which is heathy. It plays a good influence in the economic, social and political aspects in a society.

Anyway, civilization can never be achieved by sitting at home and waiting for the government to do everything and create a functional society. That is what religion is telling us (pray and fast for Nigeria). Rather reverse will be the case..embezzlement and whatever you can think of will be the norm.

I don't like to see African Traditional Religion as Religion at all, people call it religion having western ideas in mind
in Yoruba only recently did people start saying "esin ibile" - native religion
but it's wrong. .. It is Isese or Aborisha - Which is best translated as "Yoruba elements of spirituality" or " veneration of Orisa"
there's no yoruba history or culture without the Orishas, you would be deceiving yourself to say you support yoruba culture but hate isese. ..isese is yoruba culture.
the yoruba elements in question are the Yoruba language, culture, tradition and history revolving around Spirituality. ..that is why in incantations and chants it is Yoruba language...Yoruba words that are so deep, in festivals reenactments of past events are done. festivals are set in accordance with the traditional calendar system. Everything isese is yoruba culture, language, history, tradition


so when next someone says african traditional religion it is really African elements of spirituality which is the culture, language, history and traditions of africa revolving around Spirituality

I don't like to see African Traditional Religion as Religion at all, people call it religion having western ideas in mind


in Yoruba only recently did people start saying "esin ibile" - native religion
but it's wrong. .. It is Isese or Aborisha - Which is best translated as "Yoruba elements of spirituality" or " veneration of Orisa"

there's no yoruba history or culture without the Orishas, you would be deceiving yourself to say you support yoruba culture but hate isese. ..isese is yoruba culture.

the yoruba elements in question are the Yoruba language, culture, tradition and history revolving around Spirituality. ..that is why in incantations and chants it is Yoruba language...Yoruba words that are so deep, in festivals reenactments of past events are done. festivals are set in accordance with the traditional calendar system. Everything isese is yoruba culture, language, history, tradition


@ Muafrika2 @ RajputMaster24

JuanDeDios:
Your people have started in Ota. As we speak, non-natives are being murdered in the town for the late oba. Please caution your people.

shut up ode. shoe me proof and stop slandering people

Wyttcat:
You need to shut your low self-esteem fraudulent identity face for being desperate to be who you are not. You are ashamed of who you really are. Ooni doesn't cover his nose, and you need to stop catching crumbs falling of Yoruba's table to make an identity for your tribe.

Yoruba marry from all over the world and that doesn't mean that all the countries have to merge. You are ibo/edo, stay that way and give Yoruba as much respect as they give you, and everything will be fine as good neighbors.

Etymology? When you didn't even know what Adimula was and how it's pronounced until someone came to your rescue? What next? Float through the air and shoot lasers from your eyes?

you still dey here? bitch please go concentrate on your job

you don't know me so keep believing I'm igbo and Edo...it only shows that you are very stuupid

even the yoruba you are claiming you are and I'm not, you don't know a thing about

Yes Africans have food allergies


in Yoruba systems, when a child is born divination will tell the food and activities the child should avoid for his physiological growth

hahn:
Let's discuss without the insults please. It is rather childish.

Here is my point, apparently people seem to be misinterpreting my comment, if we are going to have a democracy let it be a democracy. Not a democracy, with a little bit of monarchy and sharia. If we are going to practice monarchy, let it be strictly a monarchy. And if with a monarchy, let it be one devoid of ritualistic practices and one with the sole aim of uniting Africa

That is my point.

I'm sorry but your earlier post seemed rather ridiculous and too quick to condemn african monarchy.. accept my apology

you didn't make all this clear initially.

let's look at it this way...
Nigeria is multi ethnic, that means multiple (sometimes conflicting) traditions
Nigeria has two very dogmatic religions
Nigeria was not the idea of Nigerians but the British, we are still trying to cope with the arrangement. we had our own laws and constitutions before Nigeria was created


so we in the west cannot just ignore our monarchs, the Muslim north cannot just eliminate sharia or their emirs

so however ridiculous you think the system is its because Nigeria itself is ridiculous. .. you wonder why not a single sector is impressive in this country

I can't marry a woman more than 4 years younger
op that your useless advice and go away

hahn:
After yours right?

Make a case for the benefits of holding on to an archaic belief system that promotes gender inequality, ritualistic killings and ignorance. Then point out exactly how they are of benefit to any sector of the nation.

Or keep quiet

waoh! I never knew you were this dumb

1. democracy is archaic too. it's history goes back to at least 500BC

2. democracy hasn't ensured gender equality in any country. .. if you think otherwise mention one and state how democracy has enforced gender equality

3. now you just talking nonsense. ritual killings got nothing to do with monarchies or culture. as far as I know mad scientists in the west perform crazy rituals as they experiment on humans and animals ...all before modern standards were set

-----
with African monarchy you have a rich heritage still preserved, you have greater communication and understanding between the people and the leaders, you sell your culture to the world etc


point out how democracy has benefited any one kilometer of the African continent

hahn:
Can you please name the benefits of traditional rulership nationwide? Can you make a case on why we should continue adhering to ancient traditional practices at the detriment of upholding the constitution?

is that constitution you like so much helping you? btw traditional rulers are part of the law and order of Nigeria. ..it's very constitutional

nwaanambra1:
[size=14pt]that still keeps slaves and maintain old demonic customs of demeaning other humans by making them lie on the ground for him.

Africa - shame of humanity![/size]

it's demonic to prostrate for your king? oh I forgot igbos don't know what it takes to have a reputable monarchy

Mackson01:
For this one, fayose earn my salute. This is what we call state authority which every federating unit has. Buhari can go to hell with his Fulani association. We ban cattle grazing in Ekiti . End of story!! .Enugu and Benue state govs were foolish and coward. Fayose is a generalismo.

aare ona kankanfo in the making

fuckDmod:
better don't mind that zombie,what did fayemi the literate do for ekiti,instead the fayemi almost sold ekiti,he used ekiti o borrow loan,owed lot of debt,the governor house he biult in oko-ayaba he use money from loan to build it nd gave the contract to china people.fayose mighnt nt be good but ekiti had to chose between the devil nd deep blie sea

non Ekiti-Ketes should mind their business and leave ekiti with fayose. we made our decision. Fayemi was a wasted 4 years. ..that is why he couldn't even win his own town

ekiti lead, others follow. call it stomach infrastructure or belly building, almost everyone in Ekiti is a farmer. ..food is plenty

olatade:
"Fayose only impresses illiterates. He's never in the news for laudable projects, he's is either riding bike, cutting ponmo or insulting the Federal Government.

Fayose is the tragedy that happens when Ekiti people chose 'rice' and a 'bastard' over an educational colossus like Fayemi. What a disaster!"
- Olusegun Obasanjo.

illiterates are better than the type of people impressed by a thief and grand patron of corruption called Olusegun Obasanjo.


but come to think of it, that statement is so dumb because ekiti are known for being literate and educated

doyinisaac:
.....sterling bank should go and sit down....dem dey call animals wey get horn even snail sef dey show face...

but I prefer sterling

best when it comes to international money transfer

wetin diamond get?

bright007:
All I see here are lies and propaganda written by a Yoruba e-warrior.The Benis have every right to believe their own history and the Yorubas their own lies and propaganda.

Why can't these Yoruba just let Benin rest? Land grabbers everywhere.

So the Ogiamien family is yoruba? accept that u lied and the real family of the ogisos are teaching you bini history

scholes0:
The royal line of Warri is also a Yoruba-Bini hybrid?

Yes. but you know that sort of thing will be considered purely Bini because the warri monarchy was fashioned by that of the Bini. Mother being from Ife is not so important

scholes0:
The Olu of warri is also called ogiame , since he he a descendant of the original Ogiso firs dynasty through Prince Iginuwa. The title comes from two words

Ogie (Original Edo word for king) and Ame (Water) = King of the water.
Although the word for King in itsekiri is Olu or Olaja.
While the chiefs are called Oloyes

I pointed out to Bini folks that the difference in names signified a change of dynastic lines from the aboriginal binis to new Yoruba overlords, but they came up with the story of Oduduwa being Izoduwa, then Ekaladerhan, now the voice of truth from their very own midst is exhuming the corpse of history which they are trying so hard to bury.

Actually Ogiamien is different from Ogiame. the Ogiame/Olu of warri is descended from Iginuwa a son of Oba Olua and an Ife woman

OBAFEMIawolowo:
The list should be

1. Lagos
2. Abuja
3. Port Harcourt
4. Enugu
5. Ibadan
6. Kaduna
7. Calabar
8. Kano
9. Uyo
10. Owerri.

My opinion though

what you and everyone else would say is just personal opinion.


I don't know why people feel offended by your personal opinion. most people will just rush to condemn your list without giving reasons

9jacrip:
No hating o but I still think Odede is overrated.

Why?

He didn't do anything in Bini other than to sperminate their lady over there and left.

He didn't do much in Oyo, he sperminated a woman and after being sent out of Oyo Ile, he returned to Ife without conquering the Nupe & Bariba, ensuring a return to Oyo Ile & stopping Owu hegemony.

He did not do much in Osile, he impregnated someone there and returned.

Oyo, the place that gave/gives Odede his reputation was built by Sango who also set the standard for empire/expansion. Sango should really get the propa for Oyo.

Oranmiyan returned to Ife and planted the seed for the ruling houses.

Other than sperminating women and having kids who went on to become royalty, Odede didn't do much.

His brother (from the same mother), Ajibogun the Owa Ilesa also known as Obokun won more did the same with Ijesa, he (& his siblings) just wasn't lucky enough to have subdued Ekiti people. Else, Ijesa empire would have been very large.

but it's not easy to knock up different women and make great lineages out of them, only Oranmiyan 4 dynasties...2 went ahead to lead empires and he let all his sons find their own way in life and make a name for themselves

he was a real badt guy

Stealthideals24:
Oranmiyan badt gan ni o. He was just dey highjacking kingdoms anyhow.

That's Odede the great prince of Ife

Alaafin once said Yorubas of today should really learn from his example

despite being the youngest of Oduduwa's princes he still had the greatest achievements as he represented his father well

Oba Ewedo
{About 1255AD-1280AD}
Prince Efabo ascended the throne after the death of his father with the title Oba Ewedo. Seen by historians as the second greatest monarch to reign in Benin kingdom.
It must be observed that the three first Obas - Eweka I, Uwakhuanhen and Ehenmihen had their political support from the elders {Edion who later became known as Uzama} Oba Ewedo discontented with the rudely behaviors of the Edionisen {five Elders} uzama he called them ‘Emwan nei zama omwan’ meaning people who don't show respect to their Oba this was later corrupted into Uzama. This is not surprising because they brought Oromiyan from Uhe [IIe Ife]. These Edion more or less treated the monarchy as primus inter pares which position Oba Ewedo therefore embarked upon a risky job of suppressing the Uzamas and miraculously, he did not only succeed in doing so but eventually suppressed Ogiamien who was virtually in control of the City State. The final settlement came at the battle of "Ekiokpagha" which the Oba fought with Ogiamien who was defeated.
After the victory Oba Ewedo received the royal stool from Ogiamen and build the present royal palace.
Ogiamien was appointed a chief converting Ogiamien his nickname to a title.

The pantomimic re-enactment of this battle is now a part of the coronation ritual usually performed on the seventh day after a new Oba is crowned. It is in this light that one may venture to say that Ewedo really consolidated the position of Benin monarchy.
In other to make the Edionise five elders {Uzama} more, accountable to him he reduces their power, which before now was equals with the Oba.
He prohibits all chiefs including the uzama from sitting when they are before him instead they must stand in a row to identify him from them.
He prohibits all chiefs from carrying Ada the royal sword of office before him.
To weaker the power of Uzama the more he created the title Iyase [I ya ona se uwa] meaning this I create to be higher then you all. Most of the functions and powers of the Edionise [five elders] Uzama like the conferment of titles both hereditary and non hereditary were transferred to Chief Iyase who does so with the instructions of the Oba. The Iyase now became the second in Command & the kingdom Prime Minister. The only important function of the Uzama was to officiate at the crowning ceremony of a new Oba.


http://www.edoworld.net/Oba_Ewedo.html