₦airaland Forum

The Conception and Birth of Israel, God's
"Firstborn Son"
The most precious, profound and personal gift that
we can offer to Jehovah, from his standpoint, is for us
to have faith in him and his promises. It indicates our
complete trust in him, his care for us individually,
while acknowledging his wisdom and power; and this
in spite of never having seen him or personally heard
his voice. There have been countless individuals
throughout history who have been known to have
had that sort of faith. —Hebrews 11:4-40.

Faith results in love and obedience. We cannot love
Jehovah if we have no faith in him, which we get by
coming to know him; and we obey him because we
have faith that obedience brings blessings. (Heb.
11:6) Faith is something very personal, something
tangible by which we prove what sort of person we
are. No wonder that "faith is not a possession of all
people." (2 Thess. 3:2) Abraham was a man who had
such faith. In fact, he is called "the father of all those
having faith." He set the example for all of us. —
Romans 4:11.

Abraham had first proven his faith by leaving his
home city of Ur, moving to a distant land, as Jehovah
had commanded him, and arrived in the land of
Canaan when he was already an old man of 75 years.
He had no offspring, and yet, God promised that he
would make a great nation out of him. And Abraham
put faith in that promise. —Genesis 15:5,6.

Another ten years passed, and as Abraham's wife
Sarah continued barren she now offered to Abraham
her maidservant, Hagar, in order to have a child by
her. Perhaps this was their attempt to help fulfill
God's promise. And so at the age of 86 years
Abraham became father to his son Ishmael, by
Hagar. (Gen. 16:16) But Ishmael was not the son
according to Jehovah's promise through whom the
seed would come, and by means of which all the
nations of earth would bless themselves. Jehovah
confirmed to Abraham that his own wife, Sarah,
though barren, would give birth to a son, whom he
was to name Isaac, and with him Jehovah would
conclude his covenant. —Genesis 17:15-21.

True to his promise, though another 14 years went
by, Jehovah miraculously enabled barren Sarah to
become pregnant by her husband and to give birth to
Isaac their son, when Abraham was a hundred years
old and she was ninety. With the birth of Isaac was
conceived the future nation of Israel.

“Listen to me, YOU people who are pursuing after
righteousness, YOU who are seeking to find Jehovah.
Look to the rock from which YOU were hewn out, and
to the hollow of the pit from which YOU were dug out.
Look to Abraham YOUR father and to Sarah who
gradually brought YOU forth with childbirth pains. For
he was one when I called him, and I proceeded to
bless him and to make him many." ―Isaiah 51:1-3,
15,16.

It would take time for the nation to grow, much
longer than the nine months it took from Isaac's
conception until his birth. (Ps. 139:13-17) In the case
of Israel it's development would be gradual, over a
period of more than 400 years from its conception to
the actual birth as a nation at Mount Sinai. During all
that time Jehovah, as their Father, would watch over
his "son," his people, protecting them and helping
them "even from the belly," which is "evidently
referring to the very beginning of their development
as a people." (Isa. 44:1,2) ―it-2 pp. 997-998 Son(s)
of God.

The nation started to form when two sons were born
to Isaac and Rebekah, namely, Esau and Jacob.
Jehovah chose Jacob, and repeated the covenant that
he had made with his grandfather also with him.
(Gen. 28:14,15) Jacob's name was changed to Israel
and he came to have twelve sons. (Gen. 32:27,28;
35:10-12) The danger now presented itself for the
developing nation to be integrated with the nations
round about, as became evident when Dinah, Jacob's
daughter, became involved with a son of a chieftain
of the Canaanites. (Gen. 34:1-31) In order to protect
his as yet unborn nation, Jehovah maneuvered
matters to bring them into the safety of Egypt, where
he had made Joseph, one of Jacob's twelve sons, a
powerful ruler, only subordinate to Pharaoh himself.
Also, his families were left unmolested by the
Egyptians because they were shepherds and "every
herder of sheep is a detestable thing in Egypt." (Gen.
46:33,34) There, Israel could increase in numbers,
but when they started to grow mighty the Egyptians
began to fear them as a threat and began
dominating them by enslaving them.

Jehovah had foretold all this to Abraham, the gradual
growth of the nation and the time it would take for
them to return to the promised land and take
possession of it. "And he began to say to Abram: 'You
may know for sure that your seed will become an
alien resident in a land not theirs, and they will have
to serve them, and these will certainly afflict them for
four hundred years. But the nation that they will
serve I am judging, and after that they will go out
with many goods.'" —Genesis 15:13-16.

The years progressed. The four hundred years came
to an end, and the few family members of seventy,
that had gone into Egypt, had grown into a nation of
over 600,000 male adults.* (Gen. 46:27; Ex. 12:37)
The time had now arrived for the momentous
occasion of giving birth to Jehovah's "son," his
"firstborn." But this delivery would not be without
labor pains. Jehovah sent Moses to appear before
Pharaoh: "And you must say to Pharaoh, 'This is what
Jehovah has said: "Israel is my son, my firstborn. And
I say to you: Send my son away that he may serve
me. But should you refuse to send him away, here I
am killing your son, your firstborn."'" (Ex. 4:22,23)
(*Possibly more than three million left Egypt. For
details see Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1, page
778-9.)

Of course, Pharaoh refused to release God's "son,"
and it took ten plagues, including the death of every
firstborn among the Egyptians, before Jehovah
procured the release of his people. Even then
Pharaoh changed his mind and chased after them,
resulting in the destruction of his entire army when
Jehovah trapped them in the Red Sea. To add to the
birth pains was the fact that they, a vast crowd, had
to wander a long distance through the wilderness,
where they and their little children suffered from the
heat, cold, hunger and thirst, before Jehovah brought
them to Mount Sinai (also known as Mt. Horeb). Here,
in the year 1513 B.C.E., the nation of Israel, as
Jehovah's son, was born when Jehovah concluded a
covenant with them, with Moses as their mediator,
validated by "the blood of the covenant" of animal
sacrifices. —Exodus 24:7,8; Ezekiel 16:3-6.

Jehovah could rightly expect his people to learn from
Abraham's example of outstanding faith, and imitate
it, as it is natural for children to look with pride to
their forefather, as did the descendants of
Jehonadab, the son of Rechab. (Gen. 18:18,19;
compare Jer. 35:1-19) Especially should this have
been the case since they knew that their very
existence came about because Jehovah himself, the
Creator of the earth and everything upon it, was their
Father, having caused their conception and now their
birth as a nation. (Isa. 41:8; James 2:23) Along with
the covenant Jehovah made this promise to them:

"And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will
indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly
become my special property out of all [other]
peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And
YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of
priests and a holy nation." ―Exodus 19:5,6.
If the nation of Israel would prove faithful to his
covenant, as a loyal son, Jehovah would choose
exclusively from among his sons the full number of
those who would be kings and priests in his future
kingdom, by means of which blessings would come
to "the whole earth," the details of which God kept as
a "sacred secret" until his appointed time. —Rom.
11:17-27; 16:25,26; Eph. 1:4; Col. 1:26,27; Rev.
20:6.

What Did Nicodemus Understand by
"Born Again"?

Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a teacher of Israel, a
ruler of the Jews (that is, a member of the Jewish
governing body, the Sanhedrin), who is mentioned
only in John's Gospel. Nicodemus was impressed with
the signs that Jesus performed in Jerusalem at
Passover time of 30 C.E. Consequently, he visited
Jesus one night and confessed that Jesus must have
come from God. (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2,
page 497) According to John's account, the
discussion went like this:
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we
know you are a teacher who has come from God.
For no one could perform the miraculous signs
you are doing if God were not with him." 3 In
reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one
can see the kingdom of God unless he is born
again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?"
Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a
second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can
enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of
water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh,
but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should
not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born
again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You
hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it
comes from or where it is going. So it is with
everyone born of the Spirit." ―John 3:1-8. (New
International Version)
Nicodemus was puzzled by Jesus' reply about the
need to be "born again," although Jesus told him that
he "should not be surprised" at this. Since he was a
teacher of the Jews Nicodemus should have been
familiar with God's promises and prophecies, and
that is why Jesus chided him, saying, "Are you a
teacher of Israel and yet do not know these
things?" (vs. 10) What did Jesus mean when he told
Nicodemus that "no one can see the kingdom of God
unless he is born again," and why should Nicodemus
have understood this?
When we understand his answer we realize that with
these few words Jesus focused on the very heart of
what Nicodemus had just acknowledged, the
evidence that he had come from God, the purpose of
his coming and how Nicodemus and all the Jews were
involved, and the changes that were about to come
upon the entire nation of Israel in fulfillment of God's
promises as he had extensively foretold by means of
his prophets.
But before we can understand what Jesus meant we
must first determine whether Jesus had told
Nicodemus that he must be born "again" or born
"from above," for the Greek word used, άνωθεν,
anothen, (pronounced an'-o-then), can mean either.
That is why some Bibles translate Jesus as saying, "I
tell you for certain that you must be born from above
before you can see God's kingdom." (CEV)
In the King James Version the word an'-o-then
(Strong's 509) appears 13 times: three times it is
translated as "the top" (Matt. 27:51; Mark 15:38;
John 19:23), twice as "from the very first" or "from
the beginning" (Luke 1:3; Acts 26:5), five times as
"from above" (John 3:31; 19:11; James 1:17; 3:15,
17), and three times as "again" (John 3:3, 7; Gal.
4:9). Therefore, how can we determine whether Jesus
told Nicodemus that he must be born "again" or be
born "from above"; or do those two terms mean the
same?
The simple answer to this, of course is, what did
Nicodemus understand Jesus to say? According to his
reply, "How can an old man go back into his mother's
womb a second time," indicates that he understood
Jesus to say that he must be born "again" or "a
second time," (δεύτερον - Interlinear Translation). He
did not understand Jesus to say that he must be born
"from above" as this would not fit his reply to Jesus.
That is why the majority of Bible translations render
Jesus as saying "born again." (NWT, KJV, NKJV, NIV,
NLT, NIRV, HCSB, NLV, ESV, NASB, RSV, ASV,
Amplified, Young, Darby, Webster, HNV) We can also
be sure that Jesus said born again by understanding
what it was that he meant, why there was the need
to be born "again" or a "second time."
For anything to happen "again" the same thing must
have taken place at least once previously. Did Jesus
indicate to Nicodemus that he was first born in the
flesh? That is what Nicodemus thought, according to
his words. But, Jesus quickly ruled that out, saying,
"What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and
what has been born from the spirit is spirit." (vs. 6) In
other words, being born in the flesh has nothing to
do with being born again in the spirit. They are not
the same at all. Nicodemus and all the Jews had to be
born again in the same way or manner that they, as
God's people, had already been born on a previous
occasion.
Jesus and Nicodemus belonged to a nation that had
come into existence solely because of the promise
that Jehovah had made to their forefather Abraham.
God had chosen Abraham to be the one through
whom he purposed to fulfill his promise of a future
seed by means of which blessings would come to all
the nations of the earth, and that time was now at
hand. —Genesis 22:17,18.

DID JESUS SAY THAT THE RESURRECTION WAS ALREDY HERE?

The doctrine of a spiritual resurrection, rather
than the resurrection from actual death of the
physical body, has also found its way into most
Bibles, making even Jesus seem to have taught
it. According to most translations, Jesus is
reported to have said: “Truly, truly, I say to
you, an hour is coming, and is now here,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of
God, and those who hear will live.” (John 5:25,
ESV) The New World Translation quotes Jesus'
words similarly: “Most truly I say to you, The
hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead
will hear the voice of the Son of God and those
who have given heed will live.”
The words “and is now here” (English Standard
Version); or “and it is now” (New World
Translation) are recognized to be an
interpolation, that is, they are spurious and do
not belong in the Bible, for they are missing in
the oldest manuscripts. They were added in
the margin by a copyist who believed in a
spiritual resurrection, later to find their way
into the main text. * Jesus never said that the
hour of the resurrection had already arrived, in
which “all those in the memorial tombs will
hear his voice and come out, those who did
good things to a resurrection of life, those who
practiced vile things to a resurrection of
judgment.” (John 5:28,29; Acts 17:31; 24:15)
Christendom’s teaching of a “spiritual"
resurrection, commonly referred to as being
“born again,” is vital for them in order to go to
heaven. The Watchtower Society likewise
teaches the need of being "born again," but
with a few variations, such as restricting it to
the 144,000, who are the only ones to go to
heaven. The claim is made that only those who
are "born again" are "God's sons"; that only
they have their sins forgiven and are declared
righteous at the time of their anointing, when
they are said to be born again; while the rest of
mankind is considered "spiritually" dead and
don’t come to life "until the thousand years
were ended”—which, by the way, is based on
another scripture acknowledged to be an
interpolation, namely Revelation 20:5. (Gal.
3:26; 1 Tim. 2:4-6)
We should not confuse being "born again," or
the “spiritual" resurrection—which is a
"deviating from the truth"—with that of the
"first resurrection," that Jesus promised to his
chosen ones who will rule with him in his
heavenly kingdom. (Matt. 19:27,28; Rev. 20:4,
6; 14:1, 3) In order for them to be with Jesus,
these 144,000 "holy ones," who are his bride,
will give up their fleshly bodies and be made
alive in the spirit, as in Jesus' own case. (Dan.
7:27; 1 Peter 3:18; Rev. 19:7, Theirs will be a
real resurrection to the heavens as "spirit"
persons, because “flesh and blood cannot
inherit God’s kingdom," as Paul explained in
his letter to the Corinthians, adding further, “It
is sown in corruption, it is raised up in
incorruption. It is sown a physical body, it is
raised up a spiritual body.” (1 Cor. 15:35-54;
Rev. 20:6) Clearly, the expressions "spiritual"
resurrection and "first" resurrection are not
compatible or interchangeable. They do not
refer to the same thing. The one originates
with apostates, while the other is from God.
Interestingly, The Watchtower also speaks of
the "spiritual" resurrection as having already
occurred. The issue of October 1, 1986, said:
“After 1914, during Jesus’ ‘presence’ in
Kingdom power, he, as the archangel, issues
the heavenly command for those ‘in union with
Christ’ to assemble. In the case of such
anointed ones ‘asleep in death,’ this
trumpetlike summons calls for their spiritual
resurrection into the heavens. The
Watchtower has long presented the view that
this resurrection of anointed Christians
from death commenced in the year
1918 .” (w86 10/1 pp. 13-14 par. 18 Comfort
From the God of Peace) (Bold mine) Doesn't
that sound a lot like the claim made by those
against whom Paul warned Timothy when he
wrote: "These very men have deviated from
the truth, saying that the resurrection has
already occurred, and they are subverting the
faith of some"? (2 Tim. 2:18)
* The Bible Translated, in discussing
"Interpolations", explains (under the
heading INTERPOLATIONS, AND WHY)
the likely reason for the addition of the
spurious words in John 5:25:
John 5:25 -- "and now is," Soon after
the apostles fell asleep in death the
church began to lose sight of the real
hope of the resurrection. The heathen
doctrine of immediate survival after
death -- which, in professed Christian
circles became the doctrine of inherent
immortality -- made void the necessity
of a resurrection of the dead. The
addition of the words "and now is" to
this text is intended to convey the
thought that Jesus' promise of the
resurrection is fulfilled in some
mysterious way when one hears the call
of truth and becomes a Christian. Thus
not only is the real meaning of this
promise voided, but the text is made to
contradict itself, because the
resurrection could not be `coming' and
`now is' at the same time. (Published by
the Hartford Bible Students)

To be continued..................remain blessed.

''I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God'' - John 3:3 NLT.

The above scripture has been a generally accepted teaching, and yes it is a teaching from our Lord, Jesus Christ. The question is: what exactly did Jesus mean when he told Nichodemus that ''a man must be born again to see the kingdom of God? John 3:3-7

According to the online encyclopedia, the vast majority of christendom believe born again to mean ''to undergo a spiritual rebirth(regeneration) of the human soul or spirit, contrasted with the physical birth everyone experiences. It is a term associated with salvation in christianity. Individuals who profess to be born again often state that they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Although Jesus spoke of the need to be ''born again'' to see the kingdom of God, the scriptures reveal that Jesus did not use it in the context in which it became popular, as described in the above definition. Infact, the term ''born again'' was adopted to legitimize a new sort of resurection that began to be taught during the time of the apostles, and spreading rapidly among many of the early greek congregations.

The jews believed in the physical resurrection of the body, although saducees did not; and neither did the greeks. (Luke 20:27; Acts 23:6-8; 17:31,32). Jesus of course believed in the resurrection, for he taught The Father will raise Him up on the third day.

Resurrection was an important feature of Jesus' ministry (1 cor. 15:4- apostle Paul also taught resurrection (1 cor. 12-22) its not that the corinthian congregation were rejecting resurrection, but there were some among them who were deviating from the truth by preaching a different sort of resurrection. Hymenaeus and Philetus were of these. These two have been teaching that the resurrection of the dead have alredy taken place, and this is destroying the faith of many(2Tim 2:16-18) this deviation from the truth developed into the popular doctrine of a ''spiritual resurrection''.

The greek philosophy greatly affected the understanding of the cornthian congregation established by Paul. The pegan greeks believe the soul is immortal, they began to explain the resurrection that Jesus taught as ''merely spiritual'' thus teaching that resurrection have alredy occured to them that axept Jesus as their savior.(2Tim 2:17-18)Afterall, since the soul cannot die, neither is there a need for a physical resurrection.(Ezek. 18:4,20) this became a problem that Paul needed to address.

They may have appealed to Paul's own letters as confirming their aguement, ''whch the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as they do also to the rest of the scriptures, to their own peril(2 Peter 3:15-16) take for instance Paul's letter to the greek congregation in Ephesus, which could have been twisted by some to bolster there false teaching, when he wrote: ''and you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of desobedience - among whom we all lived in the passion of the flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ - by grace you have been saved - and raised up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. (Eph. 2:1-6)

Under the influence if the prince of the power of the air, satan, apostates such as Hymenaeus and Philetus could readily currupt the meaning of Paul's words in order to pervert the truth and teach a resurrection different from the one that Jesus and Paul taught. (John 11:25,26; 1Cor. 15:3-8,21,22) it gave rise to ''born again doctrine, which as alredy noted, teaches that the person becomes alive in a spiritual way by means of a spiritual resurrection at the time the person accepts Jesus into his heart. The ''born again'' teaching began to be widely accepted as the necesary means by which all christians go to heaven. The term itself was adopted from Jesus' words to Nichodemus, and the two teachings were married into one doctrine; but Jesus was not teaching any spiritual resurrection when he told Nichodemus that he and the Jews as a nation needed to be born again....................
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For the rest and details of the article, please enter this link, you will never regret it because you deserve to know the truth:

Source: http://www.perimeno.ca/print_BornAgain.htm

This is no prophesy atall, even a teenager knows that a revolution is coming! When I said this earlier this year, it meant notin, ppl riddiculed me 4 dat, now its frm TB Joshua everyone's attention is goten! Well I have said this samething before, take a look at it:.......


www.nairaland.com/1275534/enough-enough-9ja-youths-time

truthislight: think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where they in fire ?

Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for = the permanent rejection of the Jewish religious system for the new system that christ brought.

Peace

@Truthislight, u have won my respect for d analogy u gave above............u just layed the truth bare! U couldn't have said it better, am pleased and am glad guys like u exist in nairaland who will always stand up against apostasy and faulse teachings. I say from my heart.......THANK U!

There is a saying that when a wrong idea make
anniversary, it becomes a tradition. The believe in
physical eternal torment in hell is a wrong teaching
that have been around for a long time. Hence it has
become a church tradition.
the bible condemned the jews who practice a
tradition that relates to burning of criminals:
Jere 7:31 reads: ''they(apostate jews) have built the
high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the
son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and
daughters in the fire, a thing that I had no
commanded and that had not come up into my
heart''.
Now think about this.......the jews thaught that by
burning these criminals, they are doing justice and
punishing them, it will seem honest and justified,
but God condemned them for doing that act.
''A thing that God have not commanded them to do,
neither have it come up into His(God's) heart! If God
have no such thaught in his heart to burn people
alife, then from where did this lies came from? Ofcos
it came from the chief slanderer of God, satan the
adversary!
The scriptures is clear on punishment and reward
for sin and godliness.....for the wages of sin is
death.....but the gift of God is eternal life.........if
people live and burn in hell forever, that means they
have to live forever.........life is a gift and not
punishment. Death is anihiliation, complete
extermination.

So many so called christians believe in hell as a
place of physical torment where sinners go after
death. This believe is the main reason people go to
church. A church preacher will always say ''repent to
avoid going to hell'' obviously, hellfire have become
the reason for being a xtian.
It will be bizare for many if they find out actually
that hellfire as we know it is not a place of physical
torment for sinners in death, but a symbolic
common grave of mankind which is ascribed not
only sinners, but the righteous as well. Even Job a
righteous man prayed to go there(Job 14:13)
The believe in ''hellfire as we know it'' is a lie told by
the father of all lies, this lie came even from a bigger
lie told by satan. God told Adam that in the day he
will eat the forbiden fruit, he will surely die, but
someone came and told Adam a different thing: you
shall not die, for God knows that when u eat of the
fruits, u shall be like a god, knowing good and evil.
Obviously it was a lie, when God says Adam will die,
He meant Adam will die, and not that Adam will
exist like God, a spirit. Believing that man somehow
survives the death in the spirit is believing the lies
told by the chief of all lies.
At death, the soul dies(Ezek 18:4) and the dead feel
nothing at all(Eccl 9:5, Psalm 146:4, John 11:11-14)
and no part of man survives at death(Isaiah 53:12,
Ezek 18:4) having established this, hell is not a
place of torment for the sinners, because the dead
don't feel pain or joy, they are infact ''dead'', it is a
symbolic term used in describing a common grave
of manking(both righteous and unrighteous). At
resurrection, God is able to call back the dead to life
(matt 22:31, Acts 4:2, 1Corinth 15:12). It will be
ilogical to think that a living ''soul'' in hellfire will be
resurected as a living soul on earth, resurection is
for the dead, not for the living!
Is there punishment for sinners if there is no such
thing as hellfire as we know it? Yes, sinners will die
without resurrection, everlasting death(Matt 25:46,
2Thess 1:9, Jude 7, Luke 17:29.)
People should worship God because the love Him,
and not because they are afraid of hellfire. For God
is love, but satan has painted a picture of God is
wicked who roast people in fire. Even we as humans,
can u place your child's hand on a fire continously to
punish him/her because they disobeyed you? Let
the holy spirit do the rest.......

frosbel: Thanks Brother, this is a position I held a few years ago when I was still in deeperlife church, at this time I was already beginning to question a number of things.

Thank God , he has delivered me from this religious nonsense which by the way is a view held by 90% of Christendom, and we all know that in God's eyes the majority position is not exactly the one that carries the day.

The wages of SIN is death and the bible emphatically reinforces this truth from Genesis to Revelation.

Thanks again.

U are welcome brother, we live in an era where truth is been determined by the majority. Its not always like dat. Follow the narrow part, for broad is d way dat lead off to destruction!

There is a saying that when a wrong idea make
anniversary, it becomes a tradition. The believe in
physical eternal torment in hell is a wrong teaching
that have been around for a long time. Hence it has
become a church tradition.
the bible condemned the jews who practice a
tradition that relates to burning of criminals:
Jere 7:31 reads: ''they(apostate jews) have built the
high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the
son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and
daughters in the fire, a thing that I had no
commanded and that had not come up into my
heart''.
Now think about this.......the jews thaught that by
burning these criminals, they are doing justice and
punishing them, it will seem honest and justified,
but God condemned them for doing that act.
''A thing that God have not commanded them to do,
neither have it come up into His(God's) heart! If God
have no such thaught in his heart to burn people
alife, then from where did this lies came from? Ofcos
it came from the chief slanderer of God, satan the
adversary!
The scriptures is clear on punishment and reward
for sin and godliness.....for the wages of sin is
death.....but the gift of God is eternal life.........if
people live and burn in hell forever, that means they
have to live forever.........life is a gift and not
punishment. Death is anihiliation, complete
extermination.

There is a saying that when a wrong idea make anniversary, it becomes a tradition. The believe in physical eternal torment in hell is a wrong teaching that have been around for a long time. Hence it has become a church tradition.

the bible condemned the jews who practice a tradition that relates to burning of criminals:
Jere 7:31 reads: ''they(apostate jews) have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had no commanded and that had not come up into my heart''.

Now think about this.......the jews thaught that by burning these criminals, they are doing justice and punishing them, it will seem honest and justified, but God condemned them for doing that act.

''A thing that God have not commanded them to do, neither have it come up into His(God's) heart! If God have no such thaught in his heart to burn people alife, then from where did this lies came from? Ofcos it came from the chief slanderer of God, satan the adversary!

The scriptures is clear on punishment and reward for sin and godliness.....for the wages of sin is death.....but the gift of God is eternal life.........if people live and burn in hell forever, that means they have to live forever.........life is a gift and not punishment. Death is anihiliation, complete extermination.

For those that love the truth, u can follow this link:

www.nairaland.com/1350035/blackmailing-god-hellfire-another-lie

There is an old saying that ''there is strenght in numbers'' this is almost a cliche`.....there is also another cliche`...''Majority carries the vote''......the list of such cliche` can go on and on......

Few months ago, a new record was set by our great leaders, for the first time in history, majority did not carry the vote, we all witnessed how sixteen(16) votes is greaterthan eighteen(18) votes..........what that means is 16 is greaterthan 18!

Great political mathematicians convinced us that 16 is indeed greater than 18 in the Nigerian political calculations. Nigerians almost bought the idea, ofcos most people sided with the fact that 16votes beat 18votes.

As if that was not enough, another set of arithmetic was demystified yet again by our great political mathematicians......five(5) is greaterthan twenty-seven(27). With time this whole idea of defying odds will be a norm, and there will nolonger be strenght in numbers, neither will majority carry the votes.

Its funy to me how our so called leaders bend rules to suit there agenders. It is now very easy to propound a theory that 2 is not always greaterthan 1. With this happening in Nigeria, we will have a serious issue with Arithmetic in our schools.

Maybe a state of emmagency on arithmetics, or a tutorial for our leaders on the subject can do the magic!

@OP, u made some point, but nairaland is d least place u can make a partner, how can u go to a village where evryone is MASKED, and u xpect to get a Partner? Its highly unlikely!

Aghagba: Pls i nid help o,which bank sells d form?nd those v.i campus hv hostel?

U don't belong here, go to uniben or unilag, there are a lot of hostels der to live 4eva

ujchief: In other words, the jobless youths at a bear parlor were gossiping and you printed the outcome of their gossip here on nairaland!

Wonders shall never end!

@ujthief u are just a sadist! Jobful youth....

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frosbel: Kindly reconcile your position to the following scripture :



1. Death itself and Hades thrown into the lake of fire, to what purpose if I may ask.

" 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." - Revelation 20;14



2. Death destroyed by GOD , in other words death will no longer exist.

"He will swallow up death forever!" - Isaiah 25:8a

"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." - 1 Corinthians 15:54

"... There will be no more death'.." - Revelation 21:4b



3. SATAN himself to be destroyed.

"So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’” - Ezekiel 28:18b - 19



4. Sinners turned to ashes and cut off.

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." - Malachi 4


Thank You.

Thanks a lot Frosbel, u just said what I could have replied him. The problem here is dat ppl don't beliv in salvation, they only want to beliv in destruction of a tormenting hell. Am not surprised because all their prayers is usually ''die by fire''.........holy ghost fire.......dey so much love fire. I hope they soon realise that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of righteousness is eternal life!

By Dapo Akinrefon & Bashir Adefaka
Chief Olabode George, former military governor of
Ondo State and former Deputy National Chairman,
People’s Democratic Party, PDP, in this interview,
responds to topical issues in the polity and his party.
Excerpts:
President Goodluck Jonathan, the leader of your party
is in the eye of the storm over 2015. How do you
feel?
Nigeria has come this far because the concept of the
PDP constitution has sustained democracy up till
now. Never in the history of our nation have we been
able to sustain democracy from 1999 and we are now
in 2013: that is talking about 14 years. Never!
So, there is no need to pull anybody down because
the man you pull down will also pull you down and
so, where have you gone? And it is there in Romans
Chapter 14 that whosoever that God has given an
authority, he did not get there by his own effort. Let
us support him. He is our leader and it is our nation.
Some of these people who have been given
opportunities to govern smaller states are now
coming to say that they know more than we know
they know. When they were in government, they
saw governance as a source of unimaginable
income. The amount of acquisitions; the maddening
amount of acquisition of the prime property, the
assets of the state they were given, is mind boggling.
Conversion of land for personal use
Every day people wake up, what you see is
unbelievable. Ikoyi has now become another high rise
prime area. Who owns these properties? All the land
in Ajah, lands dedicated for hospitals have been
converted to their personal use. Hotels have been
springing up, Local Government secretariats that had
been in existence before they were born have been
acquired.
*Bode George
Hostel of the only Nursing School in Lagos State,
located on Awolowo Road, Ikoyi, has already been
acquired. And these are the same people who are
asking Nigerians that, “Yes, we can perform! We
would govern Nigeria well.”
Is there a semblance of democratic practice in that
party of theirs? So, I chuckle when I see these first
class jokers, who have been tested and have been
found to be complete failure, saying that they want
to go and rule Nigeria.
They want to join up with General Buhari. But the
General Buhari that I know; his standing, his
personality, his commitment, his belief is exact
opposite to these characters here. So, sometimes I
get confused that General Buhari is sincerely talking
to these men. It is like a movie to me. It is like a
theatre house. How can water and oil mix? What he
has stood for in his life and what they stand for; they
cannot meet. They are like day and night.
And they have the temerity to say that they are the
leader of Yoruba, they are carrying Yoruba people. I
wish tehy would go back and read the history of the
Yoruba people. Because, they are fake. No
semblance of the real, true genuine Yoruba.
They do not have anything that look like the depth,
the norm, the belief of the Yoruba people. What a
huge joke therefore! I wish one day that somebody
would bring him on the television for public debate. I
am challenging him to come on the television for a
public debate; let us talk to Nigerians. Let us debate
before the people what they have done for this
country.
You sound angry. Why?
You know people would say yes, Bode George is
angry. No! Very soon I will be 70 years old. What
else am I looking for? Am I going to start all over
again? Can I live another 70 years before I pack up
and go back to my God? No. Mine may be the only
voice in the wilderness but I will continue to shout at
the top of the mountain that this is a path of perfidy
they are going through.
Chief Olabode George
Righteous way
It is not a righteous way. Now they are shouting that
Jonathan has not performed and that they would
push him out of government. Tinubu that was
governor of Lagos State for eight years, what did he
do?
Even the young man that is still running Lagos now,
Babatunde Raji Fashola has done much better than
him. Does he allow him to work? They say he is de
facto leader, that is what he calls his name. All the
things about these jokers in ACN are laughable.
The other one in Osun, who no longer calls himself an
engineer but ‘Ogbeni’, what is his performance
there? Lai Mohammed is always talking on top of his
voice, talking garbage! I knew him when he came to
Lagos as a Level 6 or Level 8 officer at FAAN. Today
he can talk, tell stories and lies.
He said the Federal Government has done something
injurious to the judiciary and to the psyche of Nigeria
by proscribing Boko Haram. Are these guys genuine?
How can anybody wake up and say the government
has done something injurious by proscribing Boko
Haram? Are they alright? Oh!
Why are you creating unnecessary revolts to chase
him out of government?
And I keep repeating the letter of Paul to the Roman
Chapter 14 and it is very clear that he that God has
appointed on His authority, he is there on the
authority of God. No human being should attempt to
pull him down because the curse will be on whoever
does that.
The polity is increasingly charged under President
Jonathan. Don’t you fear a people’s revolution?
I am appealing to Nigerians to be patient. The
challenge is the same all over the globe but we can
surmount it with patience and steadiness. When I see
this woman from World Bank, Oby Ezekwesili, who
comes here and be ranting about and doing all that,
at the end of it I get very aggrieved because she now
ends up and says, “I am not a politician.” Very
insulting! I do not know what her background is but
let her come and face some of us here who are
politicians. I am not afraid to say I am a politician.
Let her leave her high office and go down to the
people and appreciate that the very micro unit of her
contribution is nothing. These are the jokers being
promoted in the media. Elections are coming, let her
come and follow us to go and canvass and face the
people. Then, she will stop talking the way she is
talking.
Do you know what I hate to hear? “I am not a
politician!” As if politicians are evil minded people. It
is our country; let them also come and join and make
it well. Let her come and try and go through election
to become senate president, vice president or
whatever and convince Nigerians that she is better.
Not gassing on the television or grandstanding,
looking for cheap popularity.
We have gone on since 1999. This is 2013; 14 years
of uninterrupted democracy. It has never happened
in the history of this country. Whatever anybody can
say, it is a record. Thanks to our party, the PDP.
Thanks to the founding fathers of PDP who
conceptualized this zonal set up, Turn-by-Turn
Nigeria Limited because Nigeria is a country and not
yet a nation. We are grapping, we are grouping, we
are struggling to make it a nation.
What problem does your party have with some
opposition parties coming together in APC?
APC is already an obsolete drug. Before they start
they are finished. They say, “Hand over power to
us.” But you are not yet tested. The little one we
tested you on, you are an abysmal failure; an
absolute failure. We saw what you were but you are
now richer than the bank. More properties than the
state. That is all they can show.
George
Let them come to television and debate it. How
many children of the poor have they benefited?
Jakande established his education for the poor people
with scholar scheme for children of poor people to go
to university. He founded the Lagos State University,
LASU, also so that children of the poor could access
university education at ease. You now pay a
minimum of N250,000 per annum to access
education in that same Lagos State University. That
is a quarter of a million! The palm oil seller, roasted
plantain seller, akara seller, can they afford that? So,
you are saying that their children should never have
the opportunity?
What these jokers are doing now is for the privileged
so that only the privileged can get there. Fashola also
knew how he started. Was his father a rich man?
Today, he is governor. If they had made it impossible
for him to go to school, would he have ended up
being a governor? Let them just think because, if we
do not, one day and I repeat one day, the electorate
will decide. We do not want what happened in Egypt
or in Tunisia here. We do not want any Arab spring
here. No. Let there be peace.
More money seems to be going to all tiers of
government, but sir, is there no way that the
presidency can monitor the outflow?
What is the president’s business with the activities of
the governor? It is the members of the state House
of Assembly who can challenge the governor about
his revenue, expenditure and what he is doing with
the money. But we know that when the man sits
down in one room and selects his surrogates who go
to the House of Assembly, he does not allow people
who are being sponsored, supported by their
constituencies to go there. What do you expect?
Like what is happening in Lagos State where Bola
Tinubu just hand picks people who go to the Lagos
State House of Assembly and who therefore cannot
challenge him when necessary? They do not even
have congresses like we do in PDP. Tell me any day
you have seen them doing a national convention.
The emperor decides and that is the man who says
he is a democrat.
The company which collects revenues on behalf of
Lagos State Government, who owns it?
People who are in charge of highway managers, who
are they? Even the agency that has the places where
dead people are buried, who owns them? Now they
are sand-filling the Bar Beach. Generations before
them had Bar Beach. Go to what the Alpha Beach
has become and see the environmental impact on
those villages there. What madness! What greed!
Narrowing of channel
Look at Isale Eko here! That is the only channel that
takes water from the whole of Lagos Island into the
Lagoon blushed with that nonsense they are doing
there. Go to Parkview, they are sand-filling so that
they would narrow the channel until it would meet
Lekki. That Lagoon is the natural gift that God gave
Lagosians. They have narrowed it now out of
senseless greed. Someday I pray that when the flood
or earthquake will come, he must be held
responsible.
Let Tinubu deny it. It is this man that now has the
temerity to speak out of his mouth and say Jonathan
is not doing well and so he wants to rule Nigeria. He?
I would cease to be a Nigerian. I am not joking. I
would go to Ghana or Togo and beg for citizenship
because they would destroy this country. The good
thing is that this nation is so massive for him to
comprehend.
The dynamics of this nation; he says he is carrying
Yoruba people to go and join Buhari and form a
national government. They are joking because where
we were in 1999 is where they just want to start from
now. What a joke! What a joke!!
To what extent will the crisis in the NGF affect your
party?
I have been away for sometime but my opinion is
that, we need to lock ourselves behind a door and tell
ourselves some serious bitter truth. I am now
begging them to admit that all sides are wrong: the
party and the governors. And it is not a blame game
now. It is a game for the future of our nation. So, it
is time to calm all nerves. Let us all come back so
that we can have a family meeting. Of course you can
see the oppositions are happy. They think they can
use the situation to destroy our party. Which of
them; any of those under ACN of Bola can talk to
him?

frosbel: 100% accurate.

If you notice, the battle here is between those who religiously follow these MEN and their teachings and those who decide instead to read the word of GOD and follow the dictates therein.

For this, we get abused, insulted , threatened and even cursed , simply because we refuse to worship their great and mighty MOG.

The world is evolving so fast, eventhough the evolution in christianity, were people are thirsty and hungry of the truth is yet to get to Nigeria, soon enough that will change. Babylon the great will soon fall, and their prisoners will be set free!

mcfynest: Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The scriptures quoted above is all about judgement day, that day is not a kind of a literal 24hr day were a long cue of resurrected sinners and righteos ones are judged and rewarded. Keep in mind that the bible teaches that there will be a resurrection of both the righeous and the unrighteous(Acts 24:15).

According to John 5:28-29, Resurection of the unrighteous here does not mean that they are judged on the bases of their past life, this will conflict with Romans 6:7 where the bible says that ''he who has died has been aquited from his sins'' it would also be unreasonable to resurrect people simply for them to be destroyed. Those who did good and those who did bad will be determined after satan will be released from the abyss to test humans(both resurrected and living ones) after they have been raised to human perfection during Christ's millenial reign, when He will rule mankind with a rod of iron.

Eventually when satan was released from abyss, and he deceived mankind yet again, and the number of people that followed him where as the sand of the sea (REV 20:7) so with this number of rebels, the devil will try to stage the final war against God, but he will not succeed. With this rebellion again, fire came down out of heaven to devour them(Rev 20:9-10)

Lake of fire: this term is symbolic, just as hell is. It is called the second death, this time there will not be any resurrection. Fire is a symbole of anihiliation. So it is fitting to call this lake of fire second death bcause it completely destroys satan and his followers.

Fear God and follow his commandments, for this is the only way out, the ways of God are not the ways of man.

Chinom: Maybe an Igbo man is needed this time around. This is my thinking and i no get the time or MBs to reply to any i.diotic comment.

An Igbo governor will do wonders for Lagos.

Yea Lagos is the most advanced state in Nigeria, just like USA, a black is president, it will be easier 4 an igbo man to rule Lagos than Nigeria.

I just saw this, and I think I may be useful to my fellow and prospective NOUN students. For all your questions about NOUN, click this link:

www.nou.edu.ng/noun/FAQ.html

frosbel: the mass followers of Churchianity today DO NOT read their bibles diligently to find our precious truths, they FOLLOW MEN into gross DECEPTION.

They cannot think for themselves, this is fact, they have handed over their intellect and reasoning to these self appointed MOG to do the thinking for them.

It will be a shock to many once they start reading and studying bible on their own. I have heard a lot of things about hellfire, the passion these folks have in saying that ''hellfire is real'', if they have such passion for God, this life wud av been a lovely place.

So many so called christians believe in hell as a place of physical torment where sinners go after death. This believe is the main reason people go to church. A church preacher will always say ''repent to avoid going to hell'' obviously, hellfire have become the reason for being a xtian.

It will be bizare for many if they find out actually that hellfire as we know it is not a place of physical torment for sinners in death, but a symbolic common grave of mankind which is ascribed not only sinners, but the righteous as well. Even Job a righteous man prayed to go there(Job 14:13)

The believe in ''hellfire as we know it'' is a lie told by the father of all lies, this lie came even from a bigger lie told by satan. God told Adam that in the day he will eat the forbiden fruit, he will surely die, but someone came and told Adam a different thing: you shall not die, for God knows that when u eat of the fruits, u shall be like a god, knowing good and evil. Obviously it was a lie, when God says Adam will die, He meant Adam will die, and not that Adam will exist like God, a spirit. Believing that man somehow survives the death in the spirit is believing the lies told by the chief of all lies.

At death, the soul dies(Ezek 18:4) and the dead feel nothing at all(Eccl 9:5, Psalm 146:4, John 11:11-14) and no part of man survives at death(Isaiah 53:12, Ezek 18:4) having established this, hell is not a place of torment for the sinners, because the dead don't feel pain or joy, they are infact ''dead'', it is a symbolic term used in describing a common grave of manking(both righteous and unrighteous). At resurrection, God is able to call back the dead to life(matt 22:31, Acts 4:2, 1Corinth 15:12). It will be ilogical to think that a living ''soul'' in hellfire will be resurected as a living soul on earth, resurection is for the dead, not for the living!

Is there punishment for sinners if there is no such thing as hellfire as we know it? Yes, sinners will die without resurrection, everlasting death(Matt 25:46, 2Thess 1:9, Jude 7, Luke 17:29.)

People should worship God because the love Him, and not because they are afraid of hellfire. For God is love, but satan has painted a picture of God is wicked who roast people in fire. Even we as humans, can u place your child's hand on a fire continously to punish him/her because they disobeyed you? Let the holy spirit do the rest.........

Can someone help out here.....am in 200L 2nd semester, and I want to register both 1st and 2nd semeter courses in augost wen reg start. Is it possible dat way? Or should I register 1st semesters of both 300 and 400Level, house wch 1 is possible I wnt to knowma. Pls house I need answers from xperinced NOUNITES who have tried it or know ppl dat have done it in d past.

Can someone help out here.....am in 200L 2nd semester, and I want to register both 1st and 2nd semeter courses in augost wen reg start. Is it possible dat way? Or should I register 1st semesters of both 300 and 400Level, house wch 1 is possible I wnt to knowma.

I dey mad not to chose wealth

raytony: But they can die of hunger, abi?

Guyz like u are d reason why nairaland is fun!

emmysenior: Authentic my foot.

Am glad u know ur foot stinks!

gboss4sure: On a more serious note APC is over desperate.

Which of d APCs?