₦airaland Forum

Joshthefirst: Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.


On the very question of if species can diversify this much in about 4500 years,
First, we must establish the fact that if this flood was global as the bible puts it, these animals went outside to a new world as I have said, with different climates, soil, and ridden with "post-flood-flood" catastrophies about to happen/happening. These animals would have to adapt, thereby speciating, or die.
And there is more than enough observable evidence of organisms speciating and adapting greatly in numbers, in much shorter periods, talk less of 6000 years,
This evidence is from an evolutionist website, so you cannot claim it is biased(funny how it is biased when coming from creationist websites but it isn't when coming from evolutionist websites. Pathetic hypocrisy and dogma)

http://phylointelligence.com/observed.html#novel_organ

And to top it up, fossil records show that animals were much more prolific in the past, meaning reproduction, and thus adaptation was sped up.

For those talking of silly things like mosquitoes and viruses, you are either joking, or are foolish, speaking from bias, and not to be taken seriously.

For those who argue about the number of people contemplating building the tower post-flood period, read the bible. Your answer is there. If you still don't see it, come back here and we'll show you.


And for the interest of people who are confused on me using speciation and adaptation, thinking I support evolution, this just shows that I and other people like OLA, who do not agree completely with the theory, have been dismissed and analysed with intense bias and dogmatic hypocrisy, since you ask us such questions. It means you have been angry with us, and arguing with us about our non-acceptance of the theory, without even caring to understand our basic positions.

I believe in Speciation. It has been proved. It is scientific.
I believe in adaptation, it is a cause of speciation, and a common part of our everyday life.
I do not believe in speculative change above the level of speciation, change of kind. Nullifying common descent of all kinds from a common ancestor. It cannot be proved scientifically, and it is a preposterous and foolish guess, a self-destructive speculation that makes men more confused.
So I believe in speciation, and adaptation. If these changes(they are) that occur when organisms change to survive better in their environments are the basic definition of evolution, then I am an ardent evolutionist, and the bible is too.
But the speculation of change above the kind level is utter foolishness and is not even to be discussed. And if this unscientific propositions are what evolution is now defined as, then count me out of this foolishness.

Thank you and God bless.

Joshthefirst: Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.
On the issue of civilizations existing during the projected period of the genesis flood, there are no records of civilizations going back as far as that period, except for archaeological records, which base dating on the same faulty and not-completely-accurate radiocarbon dating.

So its either unacceptable that civilizations existed at that time,
Or,
The noah's ark was a myth that never existed.
Or it was a local flood.

Arguments from bias will never change anyone's positions.

OLAADEGBU: This response settles all the agitation and objections of the skeptics if they are to be honest.

Joshthefirst: I've seen this many times. Its actually how atheists argue. When presented with facts and challenged to reason even scientificallt, they claim the person is brain dead and run away from the argument. Classic. Classic foolishness.

I've shown you fact that china's history only goes back as far as about 3000 years, contrary to the blatant lies you and mazaje were heralding. At least he ran away, unlike you. He knew better.

Joshthefirst: I believe in speciation and adaptation.

this is a lie. Scientific dating is not completely reliable. Carbon dating can only go as far back as tens of thousands of years, this is also ignoring the earths decaying magnetic field.

I have shown you what you will expect from if global flood ever happens, and we see our world in agreement with this evidence. Have you read the link? All you're doing is appealing to authority. Nonsense.

this is a lie. Chinese recorded history goes back to as far as only 3000 years ago. Why are you lying here? Post your evidence and stop lying.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/chinadynasties/a/ChinesePeriods.htm

as I have said, this is a lie. Where is your proof that the continents seperated millions of years ago? Is it not just speculation?
Ask yourself if a global castatrophy like the flood that shook and broke open the crusts happened, will it not change the landscape and climate?
You are the one speaking what you do not understand.

nonsense. Have you checked the links? Answer this question with a yes or no. And most of what I say is what I think myself, I'm not dogmatic in believing speculations like you.

Joshthefirst: @ plaetton: you don't know what christianity is, and yes, atheists are immoral.

Joshthefirst: nope, the flood got them all. It is recorded to be global, and the flood actually happened about 4500 years ago.

let's tackle this mathematically then, no need to make assumptions. Do the maths, and you'll see that its actually even more evidence of the fact that the global flood happened about 4,500 years ago. You will have about 6.8 billion people if you do the maths with a generation period of 150 h is very conservative. Human population doubles every 50 years about, inspite of natural disasters and deaths)

If you do similar geometric mathematical reconciliation with even an age like 50,000 years, with only a single set of parents and a conservative generation period, we will have an impossible number of human beings (more than 90 zeros at the back of the 1).


So doing the maths well will even prove that the earth is younger than we think, and that a global disaster must have happened 4500 years ago that reduced humanity to a population of 8.

Joshthefirst: nope. Do you know how many species arise everyday? I disagree. And even if it was so, remember that the bibilical records specifically stated he take a pair(or seven pairs) of each kind of animal, and not each species. We can rightly conclude that the terrestrials that survived the flood in the ark gave rise to the different species we see today.

I meant the massive deposits of the flood raised landscapes and buried populations of organisms alive. raised landscape, and I disagree. Scientific dating is very fallible and prone to the bias of the gradual earth scientists, and contamination and even does not consider the rapid decay of the earths magnetic field. There is massive evidence all around us for a global flood. From scarred landscape only possible as a result of very massive corrosive effect of extremely fast moving water, to the millions and millions of fossils we see, to the fact that there are fossils of both terrestrials and aquatic animals rapidly buried alive together(what would a possum be doing fossilized beside a whale?, some animals buried so quickly in sand that they were on the verge of eating a meal, or giving birth, to the fossils of aquatic animals in very high altitudes etc. There is too much evidence of the flood, the global flood. The world's a graveyard.

in addition to my reply above, the christians don't know any better. Most civilizations have ancient legends and tales of a flood, they are corrupt accounts passed down orally. There is too much evidence for us.

continents would have been different if an ancient cataclysmic event that caused underground crust-shiftings and magma eruptions happened 6000 years ago. Modern creationists do not claim it is allegory, not all of them, we claim it is real, the evidence of fossils and such is hard to ignore.

sorry, but we're undeterred. A scientific examination of facts will reveal that there is more than enough evidence of a global cataclysmic flood event.

don't worry, you'll soon see him.

Joshthefirst: all of them were not needed, only a token of them were needed, as the record states, for continuance and reproduction. Again, we must understand that there must have been much fewer species then than there are now, so the ark would have been convenient.

well, the landscape was very different then. The bible records that the fountains of the deep were opened, so we can conclude that the resulting volcanic eruptions and deposits are what raised the land and created major mountains during the post-flood era. This is just guessing shaa. It seems a good guess to me. What do you think(I hope you're not just trying to mock here, we're examining possibilities). The climate change caused by the flood is said to be responsible for the extinction of a number of species. And HIV wasn't around then. Nawa for you o.

there's a possibility the cataclysm was responsible for the major break-up of the continents. The records state that the animals came, maybe the landscape was much different then.
Nice question.

victwi: Very funny... People advertising their different religions. There are only two things that can happen... Either the one true God, the maker of heaven and earth, the one whose son is Jesus, arrests you like he did Paul. (in this case u will be very lucky) or whenever you die, you learn the very hard way that there is a God, who is a loving God and a consuming fire @ the same time.
I'd just say... Keep living your life, keep your mind open and if God pleases, he will reveal himself to you. As for your mum, she's one of the best mums on earth, I'm sure.

Joshthefirst: sorry, as I have said before in another thread, people follow the christian religion without subscribing to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Those who do change others. There is a radical life change involved in christianity. Testimonies in real life bear witness. Go and tell that to the people who quit school after forging their results when they became christians, or the policemen who stopped taking bribes after they got born-again.

Joshthefirst: Wow! I like where this is going then.

nawa o. Oga mazaje, na so you dey tok so? Chei. The universe is on pin-head order. What do you mean by galaxies eating each other? Chaos? What the heck? Sorry, but if you shift the order of the universe just by an infinitessimal amount, conscious life would not exist. That's right, the universe is fine-tuned for the kind of conscious life we see. There is an impetus you see. There must be conscious intelligence at work. We take this intelligence at the most universal and fundamental level to be God.

you see what I'd about you writing off enormous witnesses because of your dogmatic position? So because men are known for telling lies, the truth is not known? What will I gain lying to you, when I vehemently assert that healing, God-healing is real and available to those who believe. I have been healed, and I know people who have been healed. I know of cases of the blind healed, sight restored, genuine cases of men not trying to exploit others, but attracting people to the gospel through supernatural signs.

so which kind of evidence do you seek? Scientific evidence? You do know scientific evidence is not extra-ordinary and can never prove God?

Super-natural evidence? Remain open minded. God might just visit you. If you claim you don't know the answer, then what right have you to reject the ones proffered by others so vehemently? Especially the ones about God.

If God does visit you in a unique way, accept him then. As I have, as others have.

Joshthefirst: belief in Jesus Christ and walking in his word has made the world a much better place, has enabled people to hope and forgive.

But man will always have a corrupt nature, and to blame religion for this is stupidity.

Joshthefirst: stupidity is the opium of the people. That and human nature. Infact, atheism will only make things worse in nigeria, seeing as they subscribe to no moral basis.

Joshthefirst: no actually. Reasonable men look at the universe and its fine tuning and understand there is a God, and a conscious one at that. You are the one living in a false concept that you have to greatly fuel and restate to yourself to uphold.

Just look at how convicted you are in your thinking, to dismiss all cases of healing because of a case of non-healing, to dismiss every case of a revelation or the supernatural and all such stuff just to favour your dogmatic convictions. Suit yourself then. Reasonable people don't have time or energy to accept that position.

You look at hypocrisy and deny faithfulness, you look at design and blame chance.

Joshthefirst: I believe I have said something of this manner to you before:


How many years will it take you to see the foolishness of your argument? You try to debunk God by stating that there are many different concepts of the nature of God?

That's as reasonable as saying there is no real naira because counterfeits flood the market.

And when a theist speak of God and of his attributes, he might be adressing the universal fact of the creator.

You delude yourself, that's why the bible treats you dismissively as a fool.

Image123: See, it appears you have no real grasp of the religions you are putting up, that's why i do not want us to waste time unnecessarily. i showed that with the muslim case brought up. You could say little or nothing for the muslins. After have spent time showing you in a little way the difference and superiority, you want us to mve to christianity vs buddhism. After that, maybe some other reliigion, and on and on.
i've dealt with the OP and my job on the thread seems done. I'm not interested in discussing all the world religions. If you want comparism, lets stick with yours and mine, atheism and christianity, that's more logical. Than endless talk about each of the hundreds of religion on earth. i showed you God is not in the musuem unlike the so called egypt gods whom i doubt that you even know the name(s). If you sanely read the account of the serpents, you would not be asking who is more powerful.

texanomaly: I didn't even realize I was on a thread that was so old. I'm not sure how I ended up here. I read your story. I must say it got me thinking. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. I'll get back to you.

OLAADEGBU: Thank God that you at least know how foolish it sounds to begin to argue against printers of books. Likewise, when I look at a painting, how can I know that there was a painter. Do you need faith to know that there was a painter? The same principle applies to the existence of God. When I look at the universe that is all the evidence I need to know that there is a Creator, there's no excuse.

Do you believe in the supernatural? Is it the Creator God that you are having a problem with? Read the quote of Dwight Eisenhower to find out who your Creator is.

You will have to remove those blinders from your eyes before I can show you the light.

oluafolabi: Which of the Creators?

Allah? Yahweh? Obatala?

Which of them created this world?

OLAADEGBU: I think you need to be reminded of what you are as you tend to forget too soon:

"The fool has said in his heart, There is no God..." (Psalm 53:1).

It is much more reasonable to believe that a published book has no printer than to believe that there is no God. Who in his right mind would ever believe that no one compiled its pages, that no one produced the graphic art, and that no one printed the book. The publication happened by chance.... from nothing. There was no paper, no ink, no cardboard and no glue. That the paper just came into being (from nothing), then trimmed itself into perfectly straight edges. All the words then fell into place, forming coherent sentences and then the graphic art appeared. The pages fell into numerical order, and finally the book bound itself up.

The fact that there was a printer is axiomatic, so it would be intellectually insulting to even begin to argue for the case of the printer's existence. For the same reason, the Bible does not enter into the case for God's existence. It simply begins by saying, "In the beginning God..." (Genesis 1:1)

"It takes no brains to be an "atheist". Any stupid person can deny the existence of the supernatural power because man's physical senses cannot detect it. But there cannot be ignored the influence of the conscience, the respect we feel for the Moral Law, the mystery of the first life... or the marvellous in which the universe moves about us on this planet earth. All these evidence the handiwork of the beneficent Deity.... That Deity is the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ, His Son" - Dwight Eisenhower

texanomaly:

Mee234: you are luky ur mum only resort to emotional blackmail. Had you being from serious islamic family, u dear not go near ur village less alone visit ur home.

OLAADEGBU: You don't have to direct your frustration at me direct at the Scriptures that described what atheists really are, fools according to Psalm 14:1. Watch the videoclip below and see that you have no excuse for denying God because you want to persist in your sinful lifestyle. If this man who has no limbs can live a fulfilled life and praise God for it then you should now that you have no excuse in fighting against your Maker.

http://ipost.christianpost.com/news/the-beautiful-love-story-of-nick-vujicic-and-his-wife-kanae-miyahara-10807/

Joshthefirst: This thread is about losing faith, then a change in lifestyle.

So in the midst of my confusion and darkness, as I began to lose faith, I had the God-encounter that changed my life forever. Today as I preach I trust God to flow through the words that I speak, and it bears fruit. The spark changed my friends too. I carry the flame everywhere I go. And by God, my life will continue to bear witness with this message that encompasses man's all.

Pastor Olu T: Salvation is not just moral bro, for the fact that many that hold on to wrong concept of forgiveness doesn't change the truth. Jesus is the way, truth n life for no one comes to the father bt by Him.

NB I foresee u saying all sorts n calling me names bt that doesn't change a thing 'cos u will definitely remember this post some day.

Femmymata2: A blind man from birth was as a result of bringing glory to God according to jesus. I guess God glorifies itself in children being slaughtered in their hostels or what could be the reason why it couldn't stop the monsters from carrying out such evil act. FREE WILL MAYBE

kITA TITA: This is a lawyer who never practiced professionally for one day; who doesn't have any verifiable business or any other means of livelihood.
God is indeed merciful.

Femmymata2: It is like asking adeboye,oyedepo or kumuyi to destroy boko haram with the power of holy spirit. It is IMPOSSIBLE..

Joshthefirst: Smith wigglesworth and co.