₦airaland Forum

Nice thread amanfrommars. . . . .

Weah96: What difference does it make pastor? Are Muslims going to receive intermittent servings of ice water in hell for believing in Allah, even though they denied Jesus as lord and savior? Or is the Muslim going to roast evenly along with me?

Hindus, Buddhist, Taoist, even his fellow Christians that disagree with his own version of christianity.

A Nigerian man has been incarcerated in a mental health institution by his family after saying he had lost his belief in God.

Mubarak Bala, 29, is said to have been forcibly medicated for "insanity" for nearly two weeks, despite a doctor's opinion that he has no psychological problems.

Campaigners are calling for his release and say the case highlights the fact that atheists are a persecuted minority in many African countries.

Bala's Twitter account uses the handle "ExMuslim", and his profile says: "Chemical Process Engineer. I stand for Truth&Justice. Religion insults human conscience &reason, duped me that I hav another lifetime. AgnosticAtheist."

He lives in Kano in Nigeria's predominantly Muslim north. The state adopted sharia law in 2000 and has a strict Islamic police force called the Hisbah.

When Bala told his family that he had renounced Islam, they took him to a doctor and asked if he was mentally ill, according to the International Humanist and Ethical Union, which has taken up the case. The doctor gave him a clean bill of health, but the family turned to a second doctor, who said his atheism was a side-effect of a personality change.

The family allegedly told the doctor that he had also made delusional claims that he was a "governor" and other "trivial lies". Bala was subsequently admitted to the Aminu Kano Teaching Hospital on 13 June and has since been held there against his will.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/25/nigerian-man-locked-up-atheist?CMP=twt_gu

OLAADEGBU: Not Just Another Legend

If you notice most of the people that live close to bodies of water have flood myths. . .The thing is that most of them are different and non of them says that a man named Noah and 8 people survived any flood anywhere. .

Joshthefirst: as I said, the dating problem can never be resolved. Its either we are making a mistake in our dating, or you're making a mistake in your dating. But the flood happened. This is a cheapshot way of debunking the great flood. We might as well be arguing when it happened, and not if it really happened. Think of something else without appeal to popular authority, or I'll appeal to the greatest and most legitimate authority there is, effectively shutting you up sir.

Which dating problem?. . .The same dating method christians use to confirm stuffs that agree with the bible but throw away when it disagrees with the bible, eh?. . .Do you know that the same dating methods have been used to determine the ages of different manuscripts of the bible?. . .You keep trying to debunk science without even having a basic understanding of it. . . .Historical records show that there were people living in many parts of the world 4500 years ago. . .The bible is NOT the greatest authourity because it is a book of myths. . .Do you know that the book of genesis as a whole was written less than 3000 years ago?. . .

texanomaly: Wow...Ok, So who decides what sin is then? Who decides who dies and who doesn't? God? Where do we get our guidelines? How do we know when we are sinning? Who is this God in your version?

I do not believe in the concept of sin. . The people that invented christianity and judiasm also invented the idea of sin. . .There is no god in my version. . .Man is god in my version becaue man created the god idea. . .

Divepen: Science has been dissaproved in the following.
1. Giving of life to all the dead in the grave.
They have never and will never will but
People still raise people in the name of Jesus.

And when did Jesus give life to any body you know in the grave?. . Allah has the same abilities to raise people from the dead and torture those that do not believe in him and Mohammed his last messenger in eternal fire?. . .The reality is that we all reincanate, in you next life you will return as a cat for not beliving in Krishna the creator of the universe. . .

2.Giving of life.
They have tried but can never give life to inanimate objects.
God gave life to soil in Genesis.

It is a lie, Krishna gave life to the soil in the verders, go and read it up. . No other god except the one and only god Krishna. . .

3.Scientist discover that a day proved that a day is missing in the world and that was recorded in the book of Joshua,where he told the sun to stand still.
What do you think of My God.

Stop peddling nonsense. . This remains a silly and ridiculous lie. . .It is an urban legand. .It has been debunked many times but christians keep peddling the nonsense news. . .Read about it in the urban legend website. . It is a lie. . .Stop telling lies for Jesus because that's all you guys know how to do. . .

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_nasa_missing_day.htm

4.Scientist can never give you child;Disregard articificial insemmination the babies were created from an already created and Natural personalties.
Jesus can give you a baby

Jesus has never giving any body any baby. . .If Jesus can give you a baby then just pray for a baby to appear. . .About 25% of women can not concieve naturally due to many different reasons. . .IVF has helped and is helping many of them to concieve. . .Jesus can never and has never given any body any child. . .

5.Science can never stop Natural disaster: Earthquakes,Flooding Eclipse can only be predicted but can never be stopped.
God can do more than that.

Name any Natural disasster that Jesus stopped. . Just name one. . .Next time that a hurriciane gathers pls call all the christians in the world to pray to Jesus to stop it lets see if it will stop. .Many people have tried to pray away many natural dsiasters and they all failed. . .The storms came raging and caused a lot of havoc despite all the prayers. . .

6.Science can never give you the ability to make wealth.
God created your thought on how to make wealth Deutenoromy 8:18
Says and you shall remember your God that have given you the power to make wealth.God gave you brain and Nothing more.

Yet the top richest people on earth are atheist and agnostics?. . .

7. Science can Never heal:
Let us be fatual scientist can never make a lame man walk,a blind boy see, deaf man hear e.t.c

There is NO documented case for this. . .No clear cut healing has ever occured any where only lies and more lies. . .There are many things your god can never do and only science can do or has done. . Your god cpould not cure small pox science eradicated it. . .Yopur god can not heal amputees, science is already healing amputees and helping people to get new faces through facial transplant. . .

8.Scientist have not found the cure for Hiv/Aids.
Jesus has healed many people

Yeah. . .Jesus healed many actors and liars. . .

9.Science can never finish/complete the theory of Evolution;because it is not real...
The Bible serve as a source of the story of creation.
Read Genesis 1.

Really?. . .The creation story that says the earth was created before the sun?. . .the one that does not talk about other planets, galaxies, etc. . .The one that says man was created from dust and woman from the rib of a man?. . .Interesting. . .Evolution has and its principles have been used to created drugs that is helping mankind, what application or help has the nonsense myth in genesis provided mankind with?. . .

10.Science can never prove spiritual things.
Can science prove a man's dosappearance.
Science can never prove near death experience.
Science can not prove forces beyond their reach that's why you need to come to God
please Atheist and all do not be deceived by the devil that Jesus was not real,every body knew the story of Titus and Jerusalem...
Catacombs are real that shows that The disciples were truly percecuted by Nero.

What is this nonsense. . .What are atheist to do with another mythical character called satan?. . .What are atheist to do with stories about Timothy written by unknown men that lived very long ago who believed that it is right to stone to death your disobedient kids?. . .

Jesus is calling you come to him
Come brother come sisters.
Have you sorrow unending ,have you sickness that people thing can never be healed come and try Jesus

And christians are dying on a daily basis all over the world like chikens even with this healing power that Jesus has, eh?. . .No be small thing. . . .

texanomaly: Can you name some viable alternatives please? Just curious

The idea of sin is used to justify the religion and all the sadistic ideas it preaches like hell etc. . .An alternative will be that god doesn't punish sin for all enternity. . .He just ends the lives of sinners. . .

AjaoMT2: No need to get abusive or unnecessarily aggressive. This is supposed to be a discussion. Why take things so personally? I showed quotes from a book and I gave you the title and the author's name. It is up to you to disprove them. Why not provide your own historical documents to disprove them.
This is from Wikipedia: Ancient Egypt was an ancient civilization of Northeastern Africa, concentrated along the lower reaches of the Nile River in what is now the modern country of Egypt. Egyptian civilization coalesced around 3150 BC (according to conventional Egyptian chronology)[1] with the political unification of Upper and Lower Egypt under the first pharaoh.[2] The history of ancient Egypt occurred in a series of stable Kingdoms, separated by periods of relative instability known as Intermediate Periods: the Old Kingdom of the Early Bronze Age, the Middle Kingdom of the Middle Bronze Age and the New Kingdom of the Late Bronze Age.
You can read more from this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt
Thanks.

That proves my point. . .3150 BC is about 5200 years ago. . .Can you show me that there were no people living in Egypt about 4300 years ago(the period of the alleged flood)?. . .Show me from any historical evidence that the entire people living in Egypts were wiped out 4300 years ago and no one was living there. . I can show you historical evidence that people were VERY active in Egypt and living very normal lives about 4500 years ago in Egypt till date. . .

I got this from another forum. . .

Sin is the glue that holds christianity together. It is the common denominator that makes for obedient denominations. It is the fear factor that is used to control and uninform the masses. It is the hole card. It is the cat's pajamas. And Christians love it. They wouldn't have it any other way. Christianity without sin would just be no fun at all.
Christianity wouldn't be able to exist as invented without sin. It had to be introduced early in the story, after implying that perfection would have been possible if only our lady friend hadn't acted so impulsively. Perfection was around just long enough to be alluded to. The lack of details was purposeful. Since it is a bit too hard to go into perfection in any detail. It can't exist. And the fathers of the church had to allow for that. The bad had to be kept in the forefront, for all humans and all situations. There is no reality that can't be defined as sinful by someone. Had any more detail been provided about Eden, people would have seen that it wasn't so great either. Humans can only hint at perfection. The church fathers played that one to the hilt.

The job of sin was (and is) to justify the religion. Viable alternatives would ruin the whole thing.

When you can have one thing, sin, that can both hold your group together and justify denouncing others, you don't even have to run around inventing a second concept. Its a one size fits all idea that can be conveniently corrupted as necessary, and also be defined as something personally humbling, if that is all you need. It excuses frightening kids and works really good as a hammer to hold over anyone else who dares cross your path.

In other words, technically speaking, it has been made to be more universal than the universe itself.

AjaoMT2: Lending credence to the biblical account is the sudden appearance of civilizations after the flood.
They did not grow gradually but appeared to have been fully formed.
I am talking about the Egyptians, Indus, Mayans, Sumerian and the Megalith builders of North-West Europe who appeared around 3000BC.
Where did they get their knowledge?
Could it be that they got it from the survivors of the Ark who had this knowledge before the flood?
Here are some further excerpts from Dead Men's Secrets by Jonathan Gray:
About 3000 B.C., Egypt sprang into existence suddenly, fully developed—that is, without transition from a primitive state, with a fantastic ready-made high society.
“Great cities, enormous temples,” he continued. “Pyramids of overwhelming size. Colossal statues with tremendous expressive power. Luxurious tunnels and tombs. Splendid streets flanked by magnificent sculptures. Perfect drainage systems. A decimal system at the very start. A ready-made writing, already perfected. A well-established naming system (in which each Pharaoh had as many as five names). Society already divided into specialist classes. An army, civil service and hierarchy minutely organized. A court exhibiting all the indications of well-defined precedence and form.”
“Take a look at Sumeria. The appearance around 3000 B.C. of Sumerian civilization was likewise sudden, unexpected and out of nowhere.
“H. Frankfort (Tell Uqair) called it ‘astonishing.’ Pierre Amiet (Elam) termed it ‘extraordinary.’ A. Parrot (Sumer) described it as ‘a flame which blazed up so suddenly.’ Leo Oppenheim (Ancient Mesopotamia) stressed ‘the astonishingly short perio the civilization had arisen. Joseph Campbell (The Masks of God) summed it up this way: ‘With stunning abruptness...there appears in this little Sumerian mud garden...the whole cultural syndrome that has since constituted the germinal unit of all the high civilizations of the world.’”

Stop spreading lies, chinese, indian , mayan and egyprian recorded history dates back to more than 3000BC, there were people living in china, india, and egypt for more than 10,000 years. . .What the hell are you saying?. . .Provide any historical document that show that there weren't people living in Egypt about 4300 years ago(time of the flood) or remain a liar. . .

Krayola: U still dey here dey fight this fight. WOW!! Endurance gbaaaa!!

Baba, where you run go hide na?. . . .I miss you ohh. . .Nice to see you. . .Happy new year. . .Me sef dey go on and off. . .Not a regular like back in the days, but i do come around and chip in once in a while. . .Am now based in Naija. . How are you doing?. . .

Just read the bible from begining to the end. . .

harbiola1: Because she was a human being.

According to you?. . .In her devine book she is the creator of the universe. . .it is your allah that is a human being and not the lord shiva the goddess of all gods and goddesses. . .

Not all of them.

All of them including the god idea you were indoctrinated with. . .

Olodumare is omnipotent but will never descend so low to the level of assuming human form. You're just talking trash.

Oludumare is more of the sun god. . .

What happened to them, ascended to heaven?

Yeah

Does that make them non-human being? They have human soul like u because they were conceived. and they died like u/i would.

And you got this false information from where?. . .

Tell ur superstition to someone else.

And your own religious myth concieved and formulated by the ancient arabs aren't superstition?. . .I laugh in arabic. . .

What were they, animals?

They are the tru creators of the universe. . .

You're not proving anything here. The question is "How many persons are involved"? I believe that should help ur level of reasoning.

Did you see the word pantheon?. . .that should help you out. . .

Sun is one of the creations of Allah. I need to ask if Olorun is the Sun and vice versa?

Olurun revelas himself as the sun. . .does all do that as well?. . .

Which one is my God?

The arabic god idea called allah which you were indoctrinated with. . .

You're not helping urself.

I am. . .

OLAADEGBU: Someone Said: "Atheists are free-thinkers"
Response:
Anyone who believes that nothing created everything isn't a free-thinker. He is free from thinking. The Bible calls him a "fool" (see Psalm 14:1).
--> http:///Evolution-Vs-God-YouTube

I call the god of the bible a "fool" and any one who believes in the bible a "fool". . . .Atheist do not believe that nothing created anything so you remain a fools for telling lies against atheists. . .

mkmyers45: Also one silly argument i have heard is that gay people cannot recreate which is one key benefits of a marriage

What about women that get married when they have reached menopause?. . .That's a silly reason as you have stated. . .

jayAjoku: answer this is there anything too hard for God...?

Many many thing are too hard for god. . .example no go can heal an amputee and restore his or her amputated limbs back. . .

mkmyers45: Do you think the government has a right to police marriage and civil union contracts?

Yes, in some cases, like in the case of child marriage. . .But not btw consenting adults regardless of their sex. . .

mkmyers45: Know some that do...Makes their own atheistic philosophies look even darn sillier imho

Why did you say that?. . .

harbiola1: But Olorun exists in Yoruba land then?

Olurun is an idea of divinity created by the yoruba people. . .

Who could have created it if not Olorun?

Shiva the goddess. . .

They were not just unbelievers, they were Shaytan's soldiers fighting Allah's soldiers. Allah was boosting the morale of His combatant Soldier in those verses that u see. Non-combatant unbelievers are different from Combatant unbelievers.

Another mythical character called shytan. . .It doesn't matter what they did or whose soldiers they were, the thing i was passing across was that allah instructed them to fight, other gods do not instruct their followers to fight others whether combatant or not. . .

Lol, I do believe in them.

Yahwehand his only begotton son Jesus?. . .

[/quote]Yeah, Macof is a Muslim if he takes Olodumare as his patron God, Believe messengers, Angels, Books, Last Day, Divine destiny.

And where does it say Oludumare has messengers?. . .

harbiola1: How do you that it is a female?

cos she revealed her self in her holy words called the verdes. . .

The difference is clear.

Yup. . .But that doesn't mean that all pof them are not human ideas and conception. . .

The created the universe, lived in it and died. That is it flaw.

So?. . .Every civilization has its god idea, yours is said to exist outside the universe, theirs exist inside the universe and interact with men, they gods can do all things they want so nothing worng with that. . .It is not a flaw as long as the gods are ominpotent and can do all things. . .By the way where did you get the false information that Zeus or Palangon died?. . .

They are not only man made but they're men.

Palangon, Rah, Zeus are all men?. . .

Al Musawwir -The Fashioner.
Al Hasib - The Reckoner.
Al Baith - The Ressurrector.
Al Mubdi - The Originator.
Al Mumit - The Creator of death.
Al Ahad - The One
Q 7:180.
And (all) the most Beautiful names belong to Allah, so call on Him by them.
The bolded confirm what i've been trying to prove.
You can't live in Aye and be Olorun, because Aye can't contain. Olorun/Olodumare is God while Sango, Obatala, Orunmila were Orishalized by men and thereby became an Idol -ilah/god.

Ypu still don't want to learn. . . .Here we go. . .

Olòrún is the Yorùbá name given to one of the three manifestations of the Supreme God in the Yoruba [b]pantheon. Olorun is the owner of the heavens and[b] is commonly associated with the Sun[/b]. The vital energy of Olorun manifests in humans as Ashé, which is the life force that runs through all living things.[1] The Supreme God has three manifestations: Olodumare, the Creator; Olorun, ruler of the heavens; and Olofi, who is the conduit between Orun (heaven) and Ayé (earth).

Where in the attributes of allah is it written that he is accoiated with the sun and that his energy manifest as ashe?. . .Where is it written?. . .

Olorun is a Yoruba word translated to God. I don't know may be Macof can use Olorun for his lord sango, orunmila, obatala... if he can, i'll drop the argument that sango&co are not God, but if he can't then orunmila, obatala are not Olorun/God.
Olorun in Yoruba is cognate with Ilah in Arabic. Every society has a name like the two.
Olodumare is Olorun and Olorun is Olodumare. None of these names could be used to call Orunmila, Obatala.
Olodumare is The God, and Orunmila is a god.
Check ur reference, those names that are not personified is God.
Those that were personified are Idolized men and they're nothing but an idol.

Sango is god, just like shiva is god. . .All these are god ideas just like allah. . .They are all gods that human concieved and gave birth to, cliaming that only your god is the true or real god is silly since we have shown you here about other god ideas, you just refuse to accept them and you continue to hit your head on the ground claiming all other gods are not gods only your own god is the real god. . .Shina is the only true god and she created the universe if you like believe, if you like disbelief but that is the truth. . .

harbiola1: Allah exists then, now and forever.

In your indoctrinated imaginations and beliefs allah exist but in reality he does not. . .

Q 20:98-99.
Your Ilah is ONLY ALLAH. The One. (La ilaha illa Huwa) None has the right to be worshiped but He. He has full knowledge of all things.
Thus we relate to you (O Muhammed {PBUH}) some information of what happened before. And indeed we have given you from us a Reminder (This Quran).

Q 7:180.
"And (all) the most Beautiful names belong to Allah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie (or utter impious speech against) His names.

And this is your evidence that allah created the universe?. . .Some silly verses from a story book written by ancient arabs?. . .You are a joke. . .

Esu could do!

There are verse in the koran where allah said people should kill unbelievers. . .

If you're not punished here, u'll be punished there. Justice for transgression against God is to be carried out by God.

You will be punished by Yahweh for not believing in him and his only begotten son Jesus. . .

If you can use urs, u're likely to be like me - A Muslim.

Yeah, every body is a muslim. . .

harbiola1: Currencies are the creation of men while God is the creator of men.

Yeah, the god that created men is Shiva the hindu goddess. . .

Allah is not the same as brahama. Yes, i agree!

Just as allah is not the same as Zeus or palangun. . .But these characters are all gods and they created the universe as we know it according to their own stories. . .In the story you were indoctrinated with allah which is just a version of god like Zeus or palagon created the universe. . .In reality these gods are all man made ideas, men use to help them explain away existence. . .

Allah, Olodumare, Yahweh are referring to ONE GOD in different language.

Very false. . .

Olòrún is the Yorùbá name given to one of the three manifestations of the Supreme God in the Yoruba pantheon. Olorun is the owner of the heavens and is commonly associated with the Sun. The vital energy of Olorun manifests in humans as Ashé, which is the life force that runs through all living things.[1] The Supreme God has three manifestations: Olodumare, the Creator; Olorun, ruler of the heavens; and Olofi, who is the conduit between Orun (heaven) and Ayé (earth).
No gender is typically assigned to Olorun because Olorun transcends human limitations. Olorun rules Orun (the heavens), whereas humans live in Ayé (the earth). Typically, humans do not interact directly with Olorun but they receive the life-giving energy from the sun and recognize the power of Olorun over their lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olorun

What are the attributes of Olodumare that is different from that of Allah.

Olodumare is one of the 3 manifestation of Olurun. . . .He is said to be the creative part. This is very diffeent from the allah god of the arabs or the Jesus god of the christians. . .

What are they not using others like Obatala, Orunmila..., Mere coincidence?

Because these are other varieties of gods, they chose the ones that come clos to their own god ideas and use it. . . .Olurun is the main god here not even olodumare. . .Oludumare is jjust the creative manifestation of olurun. . .

You don't know anything about what u're arguing about.

All these gods that u're referring to were men/women that used to live on earth.

The Creator God never physically live on earth.
God is neuter while these were male/female.

They used to live like an ordinary man.
They were like influencial people of this generation which could be idolized tomorrow.

Still doesn't make olurun allah, Yahweh, amun Rah or Palangon even though all thes gods do not live here on earth but somewhere else.

harbiola1: That should convince you that one is and the other is not.

Nope that should convince you that all of them are human creation and human ideas. . .It is just like saying the US dollar is the only currency in the world because it is the currency for international business and all other currencies are fake. . .God is a human idea that is why there are many different gods and many different religions

Islamic God or The Creator God.

Islamic god whose name is allah, he is not the same as the hindu god Brahama. . .

Christians, Muslims, Pagans call him "Olodumare"

False, Olodumare is NOT the same as allah or Yahweh the god of the jews or even Jesus. . .If you follow the real yoruba tradition the god has different attributes from allah the islamic god. . .It is the arabs and the christians that just used the generic name and substituted it with their own god's name. . .

There are many gods

Yep, and allah is one of them. . .

harbiola1: No! It was by Obatala.

You are making baseless claims with out evidence and dismissing the claims of others as well. . .

harbiola1: Yes!

False, the hindu god krishna is not the same with the god os islam which is allah. . .Very different attributes. . .

In a religious context, Islam means; "Voluntary submission to God."
They preceded those pagan gods so they couldn't have worshiped them but God.

islam means submission to the will of the islamic god. . .It does not mean the christian god, the hindu god or the mayan gods and goddesses. . .islam believes in one god the manyans and hindus believe in many gods, to insist that only one god exist because you happen to be indoctrinated with only one idea of god is silly. . .Show me that only one god exist and not so many gods. . .

redcap: Isotope dating method Will likely give an accurate time.

They won't believe you as long as the dating disagrees with the bible, they use the same dating method to show how the bible is true, but when it diagree with them then it should be discarded. . .Ridiculous people. . .

harbiola1: You're asking a rhetorical question.

Universe is a creation and it precedes ur gods. What does that tells u?

The universe was created by the hindu goddes shiva. . .

@harbiola1

Do all monotheistic religions believe in the same god?. . .

How is the father of yoruba people a muslim?. . .

This is what happens when people are overtly religious and believe in NONSENSE. . . .Prayers will NEVER help NIgeria, plrayer alone has NEVER helped any country to develop. . .What ever man needs to do MUST be done by man. . .Other countries are dumping religion and prayers, and we can see how they are constantly developing we the foools in Nigeria chose to keep hugging superstition and ancient religious jargon. . .No wonder we will never develop if we keep holding this stupid and backward mindset. . .

jayriginal: Olaadegbu, youve been owned and served by a pastafarian!
Explain how two lions would of their own produce the house cat, the mountain lion, the leopard, the tiger, the jaguar etc
Or you can explain how two insects would produce the diverse species of insects that abound today.
How about the mammals bro? I guess he didnt carry any along with him because humans are mammals. All this while evolutionists have been saying that we humans are descended/have common ancestry from/with apes and Olaadegbu knew all the while that he and his "kind" gave birth to apes (and every other mammal). Follow up question. If your evolution is true, why dont we see humans giving birth to different mammals? Oh wait, I seem to recall different stories in the news about humans giving birth to all manner of things. Praise god!
Now where is that evolution vs god video again

I just tire for the jargon wey Oladegbuu just dey write. . .