₦airaland Forum

Mr anony: If A can make B do what B doesn't want to do, then it is obvious that A and B are two different entities. You have just implied that your brain is different from you. You have conceded my point.

The brain is you because without it there is no you. . . .You can not even think without a brain, you can not chose to think about something and then decide to do so if your brain is malfunction, many people with brain problems try to reason, think or remember things but fail to do so because they have problems with their brains. . .But when you brain decides to go haywire, whether you like it or not you just follow it as it leads. . .

Brain activity does not control consciousness, brain activity is evidence of consciousness.

A quick analogy. A TV with a signal shows programmes while one without signal doesn't. If you alter the TV activity by switching it off or changing the channel, you will lose that signal, but this does not mean that therefore the TV activity controls the signal. TV activity (TV programmes) is evidence of the signal and not the controller of it.

How does brain activity not control consciousness?. . .You analogy with the TV is just flawed because TV signal is Very different from brain and consciousness. . .TV signal is sent by something, TV can exist and perform other function without a signal. . .The human can not exist or function completely without the brain. . .Consciousness is a function of the brain.

Lordlexyy: I grew up to be very afraid of sleeping alone. But this faithful day after a late night movie in the living room, my younger brother that we share the room together decided that he will sleep in the living room. I had no choice than to sleep alone that night. Amidst fear after several attempt, i slept off. Not too long, i woke up, lo and behold, i saw this huge figure on my wall, bigger than any human i have ever seen staring at me with a stretch arm, instead of being afraid, the level of peace that envelop me was beyond words. Immediately, that fear disappeared and that day marked the end of fear for me. Deep down in my heart, i was sure it was an angel but i wasn't sure until this day in church when my attention was drawn to a scripture in Psalm 34 v 7 by my pastor and i affirmed that indeed it was an angel. I had a terrible itching once on my scrutum that defiled all medication. This day, wednesday to be precise, we came out for a touch a call made by my pastor. Reluctantly i went out, after a very short prayer, instantly the itching stopped, so much that it felt like a majic. The story of how a man who appeared to a friend mine a Ghanian on two occasion within two weeks who identified Himself as Christ are numerous instances of events of divine encounter with the supernatural. Such instances abound, but don't wait to see one b4 you believe. God don't live for you, rather you live for Him.

Its either you were dreaming , in a trance or just imagining things. . . .

Emusan: God has visited me personally in my room 2005 & 2008 I wasn't in a trance nor dream but while I was praying. Very sweet to experience God's presence than reading Holy Bible only.

Shalom!

Can you describes his appearance and what he looked like and let us know that it is god not some other phenomena?. . .

Rhymeyjohn: We would have a world worsre than the animal kingdom. the presence /absence of religion is not what would make the world a bettter/worse place. Rather, the absence of righteousness is what would make the world really bad, some thing we are experiencing already, Righteousness and religion are not siamese twins

Nigeria is the second most religious country in the world. . .Yet it remains one of the most rotten country in the world. . .Denmark is a country with one of the highest atheist population in the world but still remains one of the best country in the world. . .Obviously your statement is very false. . .

Rhymeyjohn: One a personal note, i see God daily, atleast i can deny the ingeniueity that set this large cosmos in order.

You see god daily?. . .How does good look like, please give me a detailed description of this god figure. . .

Concretely, i have had experiencies that prove God.i am a christian, so my experiences draw from that background. An example;years back,my little sister of about 2yrs had measles and was taking medication, but that day, events just twisted and she couldnt open her eyes, i then thought she was kidding, but after many calls and prompting, this babe couldnt just open her eyes again. Christian bethren were summoned and serious prayers were offered, after about 2hrs, she opened her eyes without any medical aid. {b] the point is, God say in His word "I am the Lord that Healeth thee" [/b] when it happens before your very eyes, just as He said it, what proof do i need again?

i can share amny evidences with you, but space and time

I have a friend who is a bible believing christian and also an amputee can your god heal him and restore his amputated limb(left arm)?. . .A friend's daughter was born with down syndrome can your god heal her as well?. . .Where can the christian brethren that healed your sister be found so that the little girl born with down syndrome can be sent to them to heal her as well?. . .

People will have one less thing to fight and discriminate each other with. . .We can look at societies today where people do not believe in god and we will see that it is still the same with those where belief is rife. . .Just that people have one less thing to fight over or discriminate each other with. . .

Some believers keep saying that God reveals himself to them. Some claim they speak to him daily and are always in contact with him. I was once a believer and used to make that claim without TRULY knowing what it actually means. . .I mostly assume the emotional feelings I get when singing worship songs in church is the manifestation of god's presence, but that is just a religious experience that all religious adherents feel(Muslims, Hindus, Taoist, Shirks etc) all get this experiences and it has been scientifically shown to be true by careful studies of the brain during "religious experience". . .

I want believers here to provide me and other atheist with specific objective evidence that shows that their god exist and how we can know him, feel him or experience him. . .Please I want believers to provide a factual description of their god’s characteristics and abilities so that we can be sure that we(atheists) will know it when we see it, feel it, hear its voice or come in contact with it. Believers should try to be as specific as possible to avoid ambiguity. We need to be able to differentiate your god from other god's or other phenomena. So, for example, claiming that your god is love or the universe all around is evidence for your god is not helpful in the least, because many have claimed that the universe all around us is evidence for their own god as well and that their god, gods or goddesses created the universe as . . . Claiming that your god is supernatural or beyond the natural, observable universe is also not helpful. If your god is beyond the observable universe then how could you possibly have observed it to conclude that it is real? So again, please provide a factual description of your god’s specific characteristics and abilities that are objective that is self evident.

So please I want believers provide me with something objective that distinguishes their belief from imagination. . . Imagination is forming a mental image of something not present to the senses. Something imaginary exists only in imagination, it lacks factual reality. Subjective notions such as internal personal experiences or feelings are indistinguishable from imagination. If you can't turn to people next to you regardless of their religious beliefs and ask, “Did you see/hear/smell/feel, experience that?” and expect them to say, “Yes we did and experienced it the same way you did” then whatever it is you experienced was likely imaginary. You need to provide something objective that we could all perceive to detect your god and verify that it is real. We need to distinguish objective reality from a subjective reality in which people believe things are as they want or imagine them to be rather than as they are. I am waiting. . .

bizmahn: As usual you never ask questions in sincerity & even when answers are made obvious you begin to taunt.Thats why christians ignore you.
.
Your question is the same as asking why God created evil, sickness & death.Evil,sickness,death,viruses etc entered into humanity through the sinful fall of man through Adam.
They did not exist before the fall.
.
Even if bacteria or viruses existed before the fall,they weren't there to cause harm just as lions & harmful beasts wouldn't harm anyone before the fall.There will be a full restoration at the resurrection of the saints.I know you'll still argue this but suit yourself.

Pls stop bandying crazy mythology. . .

Lordlexyy: No offence. Isn't it plain silly to say that the brain is responsible for thoughts, dreams and vision (motion pictures of events that many times replicate itself in the real word ) an event that hold no connection to the physical realm? I will give you an instance mazaje: sometimes last 3yrs, a friend of mine had a dream, was attack and bitten by a dog. When he woke up, that exact spot where he was bitten by a dog on his tomb was badly injured, with a deep cut yet with no blood stain. How do you explain that?

yeah, 4 years ago, my brother's friend's sister aunty's and her cousin were taking by an alien who showed them that other creatures lived in planet zoro which is located in the andromida galaxy. . .My indian friend's mum said she was was an african queen in the life before cos she remembered everything. . .You are not the only one that can tell stories. . .

Sometimes we must be careful how we make certain utterances about things that we totally can explain. Believing in God is not an outright denial in the work of science, but when one is hell bent to prove logic what is beyond logic or common sense, that is where some of us frawn at. I appreciate science and i believe every Christian does, infact there are many Christian scientist but the evangelical tendency of athiest to disregard experiences beyond this sphere of thousand of ppl is nauseating. If not, how do describe the reality of me to have seen a human figure in my bedroom which i later learnt was an angel? Or that of my friend Christo a Ghanian, who someone appeared to him physically, spoke to him and identified himself as Christ? Similar experience like the ones i mentioned above occur.

Again propeht Mohammed appeared to a friend of mine in his dream and told him that there is no god but allah . . .

But to wave it aside because you don't understand shows you and your likes have a pre determine mind not to believe. If was ever in your shoe without compromise or bigotry, i take time to make proper researches; ask questions and find out the authenticity of all these claims about abstract events instead of lazingly depending on links from fellow athiests just to satisfied your craven.

I said prophet Mohammed appeared to my friend in his dream and told him that there is no god but allah, my indian friend;s mum told us with evidence that she lived as an african queen in the life before. . .

Lordlexyy: Chai. Sir, i love you. The Spirit of God indeed is with you. The wisdom of men is truely foolish. This is a master piece.

There is nothing intelligent or "mater piece" in what he wrote down, comparing the brain to a piano is asinine, while the piano always needs the player, the brain does not because the brain is you, it can make you do what it wants you to do against your will. . .The piano can not make music on its own. . .The brain can generate thoughts on its own against your will when in some state. . .

Evil Brain: Hell, even Mother Teresa ended up an atheist. A fact that is highly embarrassing to all of us given how much harm she did to those who were unfortunate enough to fall into her hands.

As long as you're smart enough and honest with yourself, the realities of life and the deafening silence whenever you pray will eventually lead you to atheism.

Many theist have come up with answers to that, some now say that prayer is just a communication with god. . .Some say god's will supersedes. . .Others say god does not need to answer humans because he is not obligated to love humans. . .Different answers just to keep promoting mythology. . .

Evil Brain: Pastors

Because who can be better at smelling bullshît than someone who shovels it for a living?

I'm convinced that most of those guys are cynical conmen, especially the healing and prosperity types. How could you be fooled by fake miracles when you're the one performing them?

I don't believe in hell, but I wish there was a special place in it for those asshöles.

A lot of pastors are actually non believers. . Those that perform fake miracles and sell false snake oil in the name of prosperity etc. . . .Some Popes in the past were non believers. . .

Historians- Have studied history of religions and know that most of it is embellished, false or pure mythology. . .

Care givers and social workers like doctors, nurses, first respondents terms of disasters and community organizers- They see first hand that prayers are useless and there is no personal god any where that heals, answers prayers or comfort those in pains or those who were attacked or ravaged by disasters. . .

Astrophysicist- They see the vastness of the universe and know that no tribal god created it. . .

Psychologists- As some one stated they can identify techniques used by people to control other people and they know that religion is nohing but a controlling tool. . .religion is nothing other than following another persons ideas, culture , its just living your life according to the way others want you to live it. . .

thehomer: What he doesn't realize this question exposes is that he is willing to abandon moral reasoning to try to win an argument.

You have said it better than me. . .I really wonder why he makes such statements sometimes. . .

Jesus is alive.

Where is your evidence for this statement?. . .

Why did god create bacteria, hurricanes, tornadoes, mudslides, genetic and congenital diseases?. . .

Mr anony:
Erhm....I'm afraid you have given a non-answer. Basically you've only said it is wrong to kill A for the crime of B because it is wrong to kill A for the crime of B. It is wrong because it is wrong is not a valid answer and does not explain anything. There is nothing upon which your morality is based.......unless you want to argue that these moral laws necessarily exist and are contingent on nothing (you will have to prove this by the way)

It is statements like these that make me wonder if anony is really serious when he says all these things. . .Why is it wrong to kill person A for the crimes of person B?. . .Are you really asking this or is this just your excuse at promoting an illconcived god idea that was not properly thought through by those that concieved of the idea?. . .Its wrong to kill Mr A for the crimes of Mr B because Mr B is innocent and killing innocent people is simply wrong. . .

Mr anony:
Let us test your thesis with a simple question:

Can you decide to think about a something and then go ahead to think about it?

If your answer is yes, then it is you who causes brain activity to happen and since you will have to already possess consciousness in order to do that, it cannot be said that your brain activity causes consciousness.

If on the other hand, your answer is no i.e. you cannot decide to do anything then you neither know nor can control what your brain does, you cannot therefore be said to be conscious.

So my friend, I'm afraid you are wrong here. Brain activities do not create consciousness.

Anony is here again with his misinformation. . .

Can your brain make you do things that you do not want to do?. . .The answer is yes. . .So what exactly are you on about?. . .If brain activity does not control consiousness then why does an alteration in brain activity makes one to lose consiousness?. . . .

Chikeziehosan: @Olaadegbu



I Am A Christian..
I know I can't be wrong
God has Shown himself too faithful

How?. . .Allah has shown himself too faithful to muslims as well, same with the hindu gods and goddesses. . .

How Do Atheists feel when they wakeup
Breathe the fresh Air
See the Faces Of their Loved ones
Hale & Hearty
n still not believe in God

How do christians feel when they wake up and see so many of their loved ones afflicted with different types of sicknesssick , children born blind, many with congenital diseases, natural disasters, etc. . .And still believe in a loving and fatherly god that protects them?. . .

don't U see the Starry nights
The Sun
The beautiful Skies

You don'ty see the eatrth quakes, mudslides, raging storms kill many. . . diseases, drought etc. .

Seeing The Face Of My Family Alone makes me grateful to God

And if sickness and death takes one of your family away you will still believe and give thanks to the same loving and protective god, no?. . .What about many that have lost their loved ones?. . .There is as much chaos as there is order in the world. . .To only report one side is to be dishonest and to not know what reality is all about. . .

Logicboy03: lol.....I cant believe it. Anony ran out of sophist dribbling space to utter that fallacy of an argument.

God can do as he pleases and it will still be fair<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Contradictory nonsense!

Assuming that God is omnipotent, he has the right to do as he pleases but that doesnt make it fair.

I just tire. . .

Mr anony: God has the right to do as He pleases with what belongs to Him. He is not unfair at all.

Do you know what it means to be fair?. . .Why do you guys keep saying ridiculous things all the time just because you want to promote mytholgy?. . .So your god can wake up and decide to kill children for the sins of their parents and yet he will remain fair. . .The same god that is said to have created humans in his own image and was said to have spoken that humans have now become like him knowing good and evil. . .Even the bible disgrees with you because it has good apologizing for the evil he has done to his chosen people when he did evil, at least the bible it self shows you clearly do not know what you are talking about since it has god apologizing for his evil deed and trying to be fair by apologizing. . .Try to read some of the stuffs you write before posting them. . .

The theist are here again with their many lies. . .

Firstly when atheist demand such physical evidence of god it is because the theist makes claim to such physical attributes. . .

Christians say god speaks to them, heals them. provides for them, protects them etc. . .Such physical attributes can be measured and detected. . .When you ask christians to explain how the voice of their god sounds when they tell you he speaks to yhem, they beging to cry. . .why is that so?. .

italo1: @OP,

Are you watching...lol

There is no peace without God. I just pray someone doesnt commit suicide out of sheer bitterness and emptiness and randomness and meaninglessness...and nothingness.

Now continue the madness.

Posting passages from the bible to show how your god is displays his "love"now equates to madness, eh?. . .

plaetton: What is so amazing is that they know soooo little about their religion.

If Italo knew he was going to be completely repudiated and as.s-kicked on this thread, I am quite sure he would not have mentioned this so-called perfect love of god.

Italo does not even read the bible, he reads only what the catholic church writes down. . .The catholic church is his god in reality. . .Since he holds the view and position of the church as sacred and ultimate. . .

plaetton: Mazaje, you know I had exactly this same discussion with a friend of mine who is fond of pestering me and trying to make me see the love of god.

Last night she called and during our conversation, she said that all books of science and philosophy were far inferior compared to the perfect words love, morality and righteousness in the bible. I let out a big laugh and warned her that she was looking for trouble.
She egged me on to prove her wrong.

I simply opened and read to her a few verses in levicticus, Exedus and Deuteronomy. i read them to her verbatim. She went silent, then bust out shouting at me for blaspheming her god.

I told that she should not blame as i was only reading what is written in the bible. I am not the person that wrote those things. She was shocked. I guess she had never read those parts of the bible before.

What shocked me the most is that she first tried to deny them, then she tried to blame the writers and translators of the bible, then she tried to blame humans for getting god angry, and finally she now tried to justify those evil and immoral actions by god by saying laughable and rediculous idea that had to act that way in olden times and that god had since repented.
i could not stop laughing at her.
I reminded her that if god has repented, it implied that god's judgement was impaired and therefore god was not only faulty, but even more faulty than humans.
Guess what happened next.
She said good night and hung up the phone.

Some of them will just tell you that you are lying because such verses are not there in the bible, when you show them they will do exactly what you have stated. . .They just keep repeating the mantra that their god is love, ask them exactly how their god comes close to anything like love and endless rambling will be the only thing you will hear. . .

plaetton: Shock and disgust is what I see and feel.
Yet, all Italo and his fellow delusional god lovers see the overflowing love of god.
Denial.
Faith is denial. Faith is doubt

More of italo's loving god in action. . .

Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? "It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save." Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress? "I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. ... I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground." (Isaiah 63:1-3,6)

italo1: @ OP,

I told you they are just in a perpetual state of bitterness and emptiness.

Like your god when he went about declaring that people worship him or else he kills them , eh?. . .

plaetton: Infact, it goes on further that one can even buy one's own brother as a slave and have him work for you.

What a perfect loving god you have , huh?

A god that commanded to go and kill all, women, children, chickens and oxen, show no mercy, let none remain.

What a perfect loving god.
Infact, god's love is overflowing.

A god that supposedly drowns all his children except for one is a very loving god indeed.

Or one that is written to be beating his chest and gloating that he killed humans alone and stained his cloth with their blood. . .Many people do not even know that such ridiculous passages are inside the bible. . .Let italo come and tell us how his god is loving. . .Here is italo's loving god in action. . .

Amos 4: 6
“I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the LORD.

Amos 4:7
“I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up.

Amos 4:8
People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the LORD.

Amos 4:9
“Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the LORD.

Amos 4:10
“I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the LORD.

Amos 4:11
“I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the LORD.

Amos 4:12
“Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel, and because I will do this to you, Israel, prepare to meet your God.”

How can any person read the above and call such an entity loving?. . .

plaetton: Where is this example of pure, true and perfect lasting love, joy and peace.
Where do we find it? In the middle east perhaps?

No in the catholic church with its so many pedophi[i]l[/i]e priest. . .

italo1: Another example.

You're just bitter by default, arent you?

If truth telling is what you call bitterness then am very guilty as charged. . .

italo1: Good example of what I was talking about.

There is more truth in that post more than anything the catholic church has ever indoctrinated you with. . .

OLAADEGBU: Who did you say caught me out? Is it by the same person you called an occult leader and an hypocrite? Oh you now believe him to be the best thing since sliced bread. Our Lord Jesus knew too much about your likes that speaks from both sides of their mouths. With one mouth they will praise man to the high heavens and in the next moment they would shout crucify him.

If you say that you have now become his disciple, do you also believe the message he preached that the spirit and souls of believers that sleep goes to meet the Lord as Stephen did while their bodies remain in the grave till the day of resurrection? You cannot pick and choose.

Didn't pastor Kumuyi say that people should stop believing in those liars that keep telling people that they went to heaven and came back?. . .Why are you here still peddling lies that even your father in the lord has told you to desist from?. . .