₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Negative,

The people did not initiate the contest in 1Kings 18, Elijah did. In fact if you read from chapter 17 you will see where He makes a prophecy that there will be drought, God tells him to leave the land and God tells him when to return and present himself to Ahab. Everything that happened there was because God willed it to happen at that time. Elijah was following God's instructions all the way through.

I don't read anywhere where it says .....And the people came to Elijah and said "let us have a contest - prove your God to us".

The proof of God's existence is all around you. If you can't recognize it then that's just unfortunate for you. God is under no obligation to conjure magic tricks just to impress you. You are not that important.[/quote]But god was all over the places performing wonder and magic in the pages of story books so that unbelievers will see and believe, no?. . . In the pages of story books he is all over the place performing wonders and magic tricks for unbelievers to see and believe in reality he is under no obligation to impress any body, right?. . .where in the bible does it say any of the nonsense yopu have been repeating over and over again. .Where in the bible does it say that god can nor perform magic tricks so that people will see and believe, where does it say that?. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]First of all, i don't step into God's shoes. They are way too big for me.

Now let us look at your question:
..........When you ask your father for money for school fees. All possible outcomes do not result in you gaining an education. Normally you assume it is your father's will to pay your fees but then it still remains his choice to pay or not to pay and he is justified on how he chooses to spend his money (for instance he might feel that school is not the best thing for you)[/quote]Why sdo you keep doing this?. . .Pls stop it you are trying way to hard. . .He is NOT justified on how he choses to spend his money. It is my fathers duty to educate me if he has the means. . .Every RESPONSIBLE father has a DUTY to educated his child. . .Stop this nonsense. . .You are making a fool of your self with this ridiculous nonsense you are spewing. . .Every RESPONSIBLE father has a DUTY to feed and EDUCATE his child as long as he afford to do so. . .failure to do so makes him irresponsible. . .Pls sometimes try to read the nonsense you are spewing. . .

It will be the most faulty kind of thinking to say that because you asked your father and he chose to pay your fees therefore your father is subject to your will.

I repeat every responsible father owes his child a good and quality education if he can afford it and is subject to his child's will on that. I know many parents that deny themselves many things because they owe it to their kids to get them educated, they are completely under their children's will when it comes to paying their school fees. That is what responsible parents do. Talk more of a responsible god. . .

God is not a computer program with fixed input and output commands and responses, He is a Person. Prayer stems from a relationship with this Person. God is not under any obligation to answer prayer. He answers because He loves us not because it is His duty to make our wishes come true.

So god is a person right, now tell me which person will deny his child help when his child calls up on his to save him from a burning building? Which person will do that? Every parent is under obligation to answer his child if the child is in a burning building, you claim your god is your heavenly father and loves humans but in another sentence it is not his obligation to save humans that are in danger? What are you saying?. . .Pls go to a children's hospital if you have the ability to heal those suffering children that are suffering and are in pains I KNOW you will do it, talk more of a god. Humans respond to the distress calls of strangers they do not even know talk more of a god that loves them and refuses to help them when they are in trouble. . .I repeat the fact that your god allows sits there and allows a christian who you claim he loves to have terminal disease shows that is his will for the person. If the person prays he is now trying to change your god's will for him, no?. . .Some times pls try to read what you type before posting them. . .

Don't make the mistake of trying to deny God the power of choice just so that you can fit Him into your toolbox.

Yes He was.

Another bogus nonsense, even we as human beings do not have choice in some cases, if you see your child being attacked by bullies that are inflicting very serious injuries on him and you have the ability to stop them you will not have a choice in that case you will run and save your child without thinking. So your nonsense talk about your god having a choice is moot. . .If you read the bible it doesn't talk about god and choice. no where does it say that it only talks about doing god's will and receiving god's rewards. . .Pray with faith and it shall be answered, even Jesus says what ever you ask in my name will be giving unto you. obey god and his blessing will fall upon you, serve hima nd he will protect you, do this and god will do that, no where does it say that god has a choice not to answer you if you obey him. . .Keep spewing your nonsense that are not even biblical. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Actually, that's how I would describe your arguments funny enough


All you have to do now is show us from the bible one instance where Elijah or anyone else forced God to do something against His will, failure to do this will tell us all that you are lying.[/quote]You see the problem is that you keep displaying your dishonesty when you do this. . .You have stated and made comments here that are completely fasle, now you are resulting to saying things I never said. No where did I say elijah or any one else forced your god to do anything, that is your own statement so deal with your shenanigans. . .I only stated that your god was subject(a motive, cause, or ground to elijah's whims. Unless if subject means force in you own dictionary. . .When you know you aren't making sense you result to this tactics of forcing words on people or trying to make people argue on your turf because you know you aren't making sense.

[quote author=Atheist:-D]I agree. In its purest form it can be very useful if applied appropriately. It however is rarely applied appropriately.

I have seen first hand the power of religion.[/quote]In its purest form religion has always and will always be a sham that is dressed to be what it is not. . .To me religion has out lived its usefulness in some parts of the world. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Yawn....of course once again as usual your argument boils down to. "I don't agree with you, therefore you are lying".....nothing new here.[/quote]Actually you have clearly shown that you replies were just made not to adress anything in a meaningful way just just because you wanted to say something regardles of how meaningless it was. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Well I am not surprised. The devil did this "if you are a child of God" test many centuries ago (and surprise surprise, he quoted scripture to back it up too) so what you are trying to do is nothing new. God is not subject to your whims.[/quote]The same god was subject to elijah's whims, no?. . .Same god was all over the place fighting along side humans and addressing them through public speech in the pages of story books, no?. . .Even today we have christians that claim they summon god at will and he comes and speaks to them eg pastor Adeboye of redeem. . . .

2good: You're completely making no sense. Try to be atleast 20% rational in your response. I know that religion makes even the best educated man to throw away logic just to defend their blind faith but yours is really to the extreme.

I wonder why he must reply when he doesn't have anything meaningful to say. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]As I said, you are running on faulty presumptions. I repeat: I have never met any Christian who doesn't pray for God's will above his/her own!
Secondly, how do you know that they know that they will die? have you recently picked up mind reading as a hobby?[/quote]I repeat I am not. What you have boldly stated is nothing buy rhetoric. Christians say many things but never do it in REALITY. I have many first hand experience, my aunt who is an end of day enthusiast, recently died of breast cancer, even when every body knew she was going to die, she and all those around her were busy carrying her from one prayer house to another for a miracle so that she can live instead of praying for her to die a fast a painless death so that she can go and be with her sweet Jesus. . .We see this things happening all the time and all round us. . .I have seen christians at various times that are faced with death cry and pray for mercy, i was once involved in an accident that claimed the lives of some of the people we were travelling with and they were all shouting Jesus, Jesus in essence they were calling on him to save their lives. . .We see these things happen all the time, christians do NOT pray for a fast and painless death when they are facing death instead they always pray for mercy to live. . .If you deny that fact then I know that you are just hear to argue aimlessly. . .

As I said, a Christian wants to live to declare the glory of God and win more into the kingdom, and we also want to see His face so if He says "Come back home my son, you have finished your race." With great joy we will return to Him and if He grants us longer life on earth, we will use that time to continue to proclaim His Goodness. It is all about His will and not ours. Our purpose is to do the will of our Father.

And when did any god ever appear to any christian telling him to come back my son you have finished your race?. . .I don't have time for such mythical talks, i only deal with reality and the reality is that no matter how sick christians are when they are faced with death they ALWAYS pray to their god to heal them and make them live despite their shameless claim of wanting to go and be with their god. . .The claim that christians want to live and decleare the glory of their god is a baseless claim when faced with death they cry and beg for to live. . .

Lol, you are still carrying on assuming that we are afraid of death. No we are not. The reason why you can't understand it is because your heart is by nature selfish so you expect a christian to want to die once he/she has been saved because that is the kind of thing you would do.

Firstly christians are not saved from anything. . .According to muslims they are saved as well, no?. . .The fact that NO christian that is faced with death that i know has ever prayed for the death to come quickly but prayed to live says you do not even know what you are talking about. . .If you are faced with death and window to live is offered you, I KNOW you will chose to live despite you ridiculous mythical claims and belief in an after life that is much better than the life you are living. . .Christians have clearly demonstrated that they do not truly believe in the after life because you can not claim you arenot afraid of death but when you face it you cry and beg for mercy and chose life. . .

Praying that God gives us long life is not because we are scared of death. If God wills it we will live long and proclaim His glory and if He wills that we come home to Him, then we will go rejoicing. It is all about God not us.

You are clearly lying and you do not know what you are talking about. . .Praying for long life means you do not want to die simple. . .If it is all about your god's will then why do you christians all over the world pray for healing when faced with terminal illnesses?. . .The fact that their fatherly god whom they claim is in a personal relationship with them sits and allows the terminal illness infect them shows that it is his will for them. why don't they just sit back and pray for a speedy and painless death instead of running form one prayer house or hospital to another seeking for sure over something that will eventually kill them?. . .You are just typing because you want to write something because your arguments are just pointless. . .

Show me one Christian from the bible who begged for his/her life when faced with death. Also show me one Christian from the bible who prayed for a speedy and painless death. There are none! But I can show you from scripture a good number of Christians who submitted their lives to God even on to the point of death. I wonder from whence you invented these "christians" you are talking about.

You have started with this shenanigans of yours. . .What business do I have with the mostly mythical characters of the bible that may or may not have existed?. . .I am talking about the christians around me and you are trying to draw me to your turf of mythology and legendary characters who might or might not have existed?. . .I am talking about reality and the christians we see around. Which of the biblical christians have you ever meet in your life?. . .NON I know or have ever heard of has ever prayed for a speedy death when faced with death. All pray for life when faced with death. Even you, if you are faced with death you will chose life if you are offered the opportunity. . .

Lol, of course mazaje knows this for sure because only last week mazaje held a gun to anony's head and witnessed him crying to God to save his life.

I don't believe in god but I hope you die tomorrow so that you can go to heaven and be with Jesus and the angles for all eternity. . .Say amen to it. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You have just made some faulty presumptions here.

Christians live to proclaim the glory of God. We will continue to pray that God keeps us alive and well so as to do his good work and when we have finished the work, God will bring us home to Him. I have never met any Christian who doesn't pray for God's will above his/her own.

We are not afraid of death, Christ has conquered death already. In fact we would rather die proclaiming God's goodness than die "peacefully" in our sleep.

For us to live is Christ and to die is gain . . . . .all to God's glory according to His will.[/quote]Nothing I have said is faulty. . . Why do you make false statements most of the time?. . .You claim you have never met any Christian who doesn't pray for God's will above his/her own, yet we see christians ALWAYS praying for protection and good health even when they know that they will die. Most who have terminal diseases they know will kill them still pray for mercy and expect a miracle from their god so that they will live, when was the last time you saw a christians praying for a painless and speedy death despite all the lies they spew about wanting to meet their god all of the time?. . .You statement has no reality to support it because christians claim that their god is in control of their lives and watches over them. . .The fact their god was watching when they first got the disease or accident, and that he stood by and allowed it to happen, means that is his will and plans for them , no?. .

Why then do they pray for healing instead of a speedy death even when they know their situation is hopeless?. . .If you guys are not afraid of death, you will not be crying, wailing and praying for your god to spare your life when you come face to face with death, you will be praying for a speedy and painless death instead. . The fact the christians do not do any of the things i have stated when faced with death but pray to live shows that you do not even have an idea of what you are talkking about but just wanted to write anything against what i wrote even if it doesn't make any sense. . .God's glory according to his will yet when anony is faced with death he will cry and pray to his god to save his life even when it is his god's will that he dies. . .SMH. . .

[quote author=Atheist:-D]This type of belief would also help advance the group in warfare etc where fear is a major component.

3 major conflicts that benefitted from religion was the initial spread of Islam, Heraclius byzantine-persian wars (where the ideology of holy wars was first put to an efficient use) and of course the crusades.

It is difficult to.argue if any of the groups would have been as successful without.the religious flavour to their wars.[/quote]Religion is beneficial to humanity. It provides hope, gives people confidence and offers them the belief that there is a father figure that loves them, cares for them and wants them to be his own. Religion is basically for the poor and those in power. . .The wise and the rich usually have nothing to do with it except it will allow them exploit the poor or improve their standing in the eyes of others. . ."Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful"

What suprises me about christians especially is their love of life and irrational fear of death. If they truly believe their religion is true why do they fear death soooo much? Christians pray endlessly for the silliest of things. They know they will die yet constantly pray that they don't. When they are sick instead of praying for a quick and painless death they pray for quick recovery so that they will continue to live. When sick they still fast and pray to get well and live. This is very silly because most christians claim to want to be with the loved ones they lost. They claim they love Jesus soooo much and will want to be with him. They love god soooo much and wil also want to be with him. They offer praises to god as the best things that has ever happend to them and will want to get to be with him. They can't wait to go to heaven. But when they see danger or anything that will kill them and make them go to heaven they will pray, cry, wail and ask their god to spare their lives and make them continue to live. Why is that so?

Even many of them that can't wait for the rapture and believe it will happen in their life times don't want to die. Go to their houses and see how they are praying shouting and crying to their god to save their lives and the life of their sick ones or those that are facing death in one way or the other. They claim they love jesus and cant wait to be with him, cant wait for the rapture yet, on their death beds they want nothing more than to live.

In the end there is a part of their brain that tells them" Ohh I know thats probably bullshit". . .

Religions are humanly constructed traditions to help mankind explain the unknown, give him control over others, give him hope and legitimize his fantasies. Those who were in control and wanted to keep control or those who wanted to get control used religion to achieve that. They taught the ignorant there was a god and told them that god chose (the controller/ruler) as their leaders. They claimed they talked with god or god revealed things to them. . .That was how they controlled the ignorant, used them and kept them under tight control. Daniel Dennett has suggested (in his book breaking the spell) that beliefs there are higher forces watching over the fortunes of your tribe, aiding you in battle, helping heal your sick and injured, and attacking your enemies, could be advantageous in the evolutionary fight to survive. Such a belief, although entirely untrue, would bind a tribe together around a common set of customs and rituals, and could be used (or abused?) by charismatic leaders to keep spirits up when times were hard. All religions were created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few. . . . .

[quote author=God's-Word]I have written a book titled: why non-tithing christians stay poor and How tithing christians can become rich. The book is available in PDF format. Total of 88 pages. It reveals the hidden secrets to wealth through tithing. Do you believe in tithing and still at the bottom? Find out in this book the basic steps to take to lead you to financial breakthrough. Are you there and you don't believe in tithing, find out what you're missing in this book. If you've not had a chance to pay your tithe, find out how you can start paying. The Jews knew this secret and they used it to the fullest. That's why a larger percentage of them are wealthy today.
It costs #3,500 (naira) but i'll reduce it to #1,800 (naira) as a December bonus. Infact, take the book for #1,500 (naira) only. Xmas is all about giving. There's a money-back guarantee on this book. To get it, leave a comment. A short version of this book is available for free.[/quote]Your are a fraudster. Tithing can NEVER make a person rich. The top 4 richest and most successful businessmen in the world do not pay tithes, in fact they are either atheist or agnostics. . .Carry your tithes scam and go shove it up your you know what. . . .

MAYOWAAK: The book is a fraud,at the very best, a work of fiction.I remember vividly back in early 90's,an investigation was launched by the PFN to ascertain its veracity,the outcome was that the book was written by a man who capitalised on the gullibility of many to make some cash!

I can't believe that people really believe this work of fiction as real. . . .gullibility is a disease. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]It could also mean that you love me care about my needs. In fact that's the more plausible explanation. Remember we are talking about a plea here and not a command (very big difference).[/quote]You can do a person's will without it being a command. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .You started by saying something isn't scriptural, when i showed you that it was you are now trying to continue with your games of chasing your long tail. . .Keep on keeping on. .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]So if I plead with you to do something and you do it, it means your are subject to my will?[/quote]If I already had something planned and you plead with me and make me change my mind they yes, am subject to your will. . .same applies to your god. . .So your assertion is false. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If that is how you read it, then good for you. God is not bound to man's will.[/quote]But the bible has instances of god going out of his way to do man's will, no? Cases where he already wanted to do something, man pleaded with him to reconsider and he did man's will. . .If god is not bound by man's will then why do people pray to god for protection for example?. . .Why pray to him to bless u at all if its his will for you to be poor or sick?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]There is a difference between "God will bless you" and "God is under an obligation to bless you"[/quote]The way it reads from the bible appears like it is the bible god's duty to bless though who give to him freely, hence the promise of blessings and doubling of their possessions. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My bad, perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.....No doubt God will bless us for our good works but then the point I was making which I am quite sure that cyrexx got was that the motive where one treats God as a money doubler i.e. giving to God not with a cheerful heart but with a heart seeking selfish gain. That is against what the scripture stands for. God is under no obligation to double anyone's money.[/quote]The part in bold is your opinion and has no biblical support. . .The bible actually states that if you give cheerfully, the god it talks about will bless you in return and double your money. . .The bible clearly states that its god is a money doubler as long as you give him freely. . .

iphy42: Paul like other disciples believed Jesus would come back for them then. So they waited expectantly not knowing exactly when He will come

Even Jesus told his disciples that he will return during their life time, that was 2000 years ago. . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Giving God expecting material returns is not scriptural. Besides it shows a selfish heart and not a heart of love. God is not a genie, neither is He an investment banker.[/quote]Anony is here again with his opinions that are not supported by the bible. . .Giving and expecting material things is actually scriptural. . .

Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. Deuteronomy 15:10

Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return to you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye say, Wherein shall we return?
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Malachi 3:7-11

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol as usual, grasping for straws now are we?[/quote]What else did Paul get wrong in the bible?. . .He stated something that was obviously wrong. . .Am not grasping as straws but making a valid point

cyrexx: if that is the case, why not just give to the needy (widows, orphans and homeless) because you want to help the needy and not make yourself believe that you are giving to an Almighty All-sufficient deity who will bless you for giving to your pastors and the needy?

They way christians talk about giving nowadays, you will think its a special investestment scheme with the Almighty where you get hundredfold returns on your money invested. But this is not the case in reality. Many believers are dissapointed with these failed promises but they dare not voice out their dissapointment, else they sin against God.

My own confusion with this situation is that many tithers and sacrificial givers i know are still poor while their pastors who collected their money are the ones who "prospered". I have several instances from the church i used to attend to attest to my statement above.

Anony, what do you have to say about these and about expecting returns from giving "to the Lord".

Most actually give because they expect double returns that never comes. . . .

OLAADEGBU: Your god, who is your god, Obama? If Jamie Foxx achieved anything at all he at least made you believe in a god called Flobama.

cr8v: Sorry I can't continue this discussionn I thought I was discussing with a mature person. Nairaland shd better start displaying peoples age close to their names so we know who to avoid. Somebody on Nairaland doesn't understand what it means to say that God is in need of resources both human and material to further His purpose on earth. Not that he lacks anything but looking for who He will release His blessings to and the person will still be mindful to collaborate with His family the church to defeat the enemy

What exactly are you saying here?. . .Your god is in need of resources, eh?. . .I thought you guys claim your god is self sufficient?. . .So god need resources to further his purpose on earth?. . .your god is looking for resources to defeat his enemies?. . Interesting. . .

OLAADEGBU: I see. Figurative speech you say. Wait until you see a work of art by Glenn Beck who made a figurine of Obama in urine and put it on sale for $25,000 on e bay. Don't tell me it's not funny because it makes fun of your god it is only satire and comedy, no?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ff1BXhH9eE

My god?. . .You are the one that believe in god i don't. . .making fun of obama means nothing to me. You are obviously too dull to understand satire. . .What ever your gods the white republicans tell you is what you must accept. . .

hisblud: Hi op i find the thread interesting and felt i can chip in.
Cell division is the process by which a parent cell divides into two or more daughter cells .


20 And God said, Let the waters bringforth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Cell theory n biology , cell theory is a scientific theory that describes the properties of cells , the basic unit of structure in every living thing.

ANSWER
For by him all things were created, inheaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Really?. . . No be small thing. . .

OLAADEGBU: You call it satire? Oh it's a comedy that you applaud, at least he has made you a believer in a god. Behold your newly discovered god!

You are obviously a very dull guy since you clearly do not understand satire,comedy and figurative speech. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Paul thought it would happen in his time.[/quote]your god inspired paul to make wrong guesses?. . . .

cr8v: When you don't pay your tithen the Kingdom of God suffers. You can give to the poor but that should not interfer with your tithe. Its God's money! Its your lack of knowledge of the scriptures that makes u reason like a natural man.

Why do we pay tax to government? Why not use the money and help the unemployed. You also have a misconception that pastors use it to live extravagantly, though I don't deny that some may abuse it, but leave their judgment to God. Don't think its tithe that buys private jets. But even if its from the tithe, it means the people are getting so blessed that ten percent of their money can buy a jet. Why not join them to try it

Your god needs money?. . . . Interesting. . .

okeyxyz: You missed the whole point of this thread. It's not about individual animal or objects or events, but about the principles of how events happen. You ask for a bible solution to the tsunami & natural disasters but that was not my promise at the beginning of this thread. My proposal was: "Give me any working principle in any discipline and I will find where it is already in operation as an attribute(spirit) of god". Of course there are no computers in the bible but the principles on which computers operate are not new and they can be found in the bible as an attribute of god. Shikena!!!

So what is the biblical principle of cell division? What about the cell theory?. . .

OLAADEGBU: Baseless conspiracies? I posted the hard evidence on videoclips and you still call it baseless conspiracies. When will you Obamaniacs stop burying your heads in the sand? Here is the evidence again if you say that you've not seen it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPSALWE1_U

Hope you know what satire is?He is a comedian and comedian do and say many unconventional things. . .Some claim to be god. . .You are a joke. . .