₦airaland Forum

...and nobody mentioned they are muslims.

Biological rubbish?

I thought someone opined on here, that girls are "naturally brilliant" yet all the victims in that biological waste bin happens to be girls.

Is it possible for a Nigerian girl to fall victim?

I don't believe the reason stated here, government don't consult anybody before reopening its offices.

Besides, that property is not a new one to even start with.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

i thought reverend sisters are married to Jesus?
what is she saying, that the love of Jesus is not enough to quench sexual desires?
smh

anyways, i keep saying it, sex is a need for the matured person, lets stop deceiving ourselves and living in denial.

oaroloye:
Foolish people say that things are "IMPOSSIBLE."
As if no one can know more than them.

Wise people say that THEY are the ones IGNORANT of how to do things.


There is a METER that can MEASURE FAITH and SPIRITUAL POWER.

It is called the E-Meter.

It is used in the SCIENTOLOGY Religion.

Thanks for the update, now I know.

5solas:
Can you know for sure a person is born again?
Whoever is born again was predestinated.
Did you not read Paul talking of vessels of wrath fitted for destruction? Did you not read of God consoling Paul and telling him to abide in a city because He has much people there?

How can anyone know who is born again?
Not possible.
There is no faithometer or spiritometer to measure that.

@bolded, That is as true as the reverse is.
Little by little we are peeling the layers...

@underlined, calls the creation story to question, making the Anunnaki version more believable.

Splinz:
Not that the true Church of God has ever taught that some are predestined to be saved and some to lost. The doctrine of predestination as taught today is nothing but a sham; a false representation of who God is and His plans for mankind.

You see, contrary to the false belief that TODAY is the only day for salvation, the bible shows that it is not. God is not calling everyone TODAY. If He was, then He is failing woefully and Satan is more successful than Him. Think of the billions of people that have not even heard of the name of Jesus. Think of those in gentile nations who died before Christ. Think of the billions of others practicing other faiths. The question is: what becomes of them—perished?

No!

If there's anyone who is really in danger now, it is he/she who is CALLED already and is being judged (1 Peter 4:17). These are the ones who are called first and the whole world following later. Ezekiel 37 prophesied of such a time. All those who appeared to die “without a chance” will be given their first chance to learn the truth. Some have portrayed this as a “second chance.” We have been accused of believing the doctrine of a second chance. But this will be the first opportunity—the first chance—for many to be called.

If people do not know God’s truth or were predestined not to, how can they be judged as having rejected or disobeyed it? On what basis could God condemn anyone who never knew that what they were doing was wrong or sin? What does the Bible actually say on this critical matter?

Consider! James 4:17 states, “Therefore to him that knows to do good [God’s law: Rom. 7:12], and does it not, to him it is sin.” The key is knowledge —what one knows about right and wrong—that gives God a basis for evaluating how a person has or has not yielded to Him.

Further, Hebrews 10:26-27 states, “If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries [of God].” There is no misunderstanding this plain verse. Willful sin against God can only occur “after” one has “received the knowledge of the truth”—or after one has been called by God to understand His plan. Once again, it is clear that God considers what you do with what you know to be the standard for measuring Christian conduct.



Honestly, you're right. It paints God in the worse conceivable light—the architect of all evil! It's quite pathetic, but you know as I've stated before, let God be true and every man a liar.

Reading through some comments, I see people turning in their skin in defense of their religious beliefs.

How can Predestination a Bible doctrine, a pillar of Christian belief, be a sham, just because it does not sync with your version of Christianity?
That's funny.

It's because of such catch-22 doctrines that I free-style my belief system.

@bolded, can you see that sticking out like a sore thumb? The "knowledge of right and wrong" I guess is not the one Adam was accused of getting.

5solas:
The doctrine of predestination was taught by Christ' himself, why should it pose a problem to His gospel?
Read John 6:44,65, John 10 and 17. Jesus continously talked of those GIVEN to Him and of His ''sheep'' and of those who could not hear His Word because they were not His ''sheep''. He also declared that it took the ''drawing '' of the Father for anyone to come to Him . Read also Matthew 11:25-27.

You right, but the question is, how are you sure Nigerians are among those that were "given" to him?

Even if we were/are drawn to him, don't forget he also said "not all those that call him Lord will enter into eternal life"

Can you see that catch-22 in all these?

No matter how much we twist it (predestination) to fit our belief or what we want to believe the catch-22 is obvious.

5solas:
It doesn't! Paul knew there were some chosen for salvation (the elects, 2 Th.2:13 ) but he didn't know whom they were , so he preached the message to all. He endured hardness for their sakes (not for all!) Even though he didn't know them. Reformed theologians such as Calvin, Luther, Knox, Thomas Cranmer, in short or Protestants before the scorge of Arminianism did the same. In modern times William Carey is a notable example. Arminianism is the belief that Salvation can be lost. It was alien and is to the teachings of the Reformers. The Arminian break from Protestantism in the early parts of the 17th century was the first break ever from Protestantism.
2. I can't understand what you mean by safely ''saved'' nor can I understand how someone can be saved if they were predestinated for death.

If you say Paul knew that they were some chosen for salvation implies he knew they were those chosen for damnation, meaning his preaching was a coin toss, no certainty of who will be saved.

From your comment, salvation meant different things to different people at different times.

@bolded, what I meant is, is it safe to say Pst Kumuyi, TB Joshua, Pst E. Adeboye, Bishop Oyedepo, Pst Oyakhilome are "saved," or predestinated for eternal life, in the context of this discussion?
Can anyone know that for sure?

from the available statistics as presented by this OP, i surmise the Igbos are not "politically savvy" in relation to the other major tribes in Nigeria.

besides, this OP makes PMB's personal preferences to mean Nigeria vs Igbo.
Nigeria is not a tribe, if the Igbos have any problem with the hausa, fulani or any tribe at all, they should coin it and address it properly.

Splinz:
Oh sorry, I'm not arguing for/against Op's book. I'm only sharing what is predestination which the book seems to discussed.

But then, claiming that some are predestinated to inherit eternal life and some, eternal death, doesn't portray God as loving but our very enemy. Yes. He is a monster who having predestinated some to commit evey conceivable sin, still went ahead and condemned these ones that were simply doing His biddings. What sort of a God is that? Is God then lying and being hypocritical when He said that He wants ALL to come to repentance and be saved? (Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9)

Of course no. Let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4).

you now see the reason why some religious books and doctrines are up for review and updating?
yet some people are clamouring to go back to the old time christian religion.

religious doctrines should be treated like scientific principles that are subject to review in the light of new knowledge and understanding.

you know what, the more i read this OP's book the more i see reasons why more people are leaving Christianity, that book needs to be reviewed and updated or banned; but hey! who am i to suggest that?

5solas:
The bolded always gladens my heart.

how?

that quote to me makes nonsense of the evangelism work of the church, why even try to "save" someone that was preordained/predestinated to eternal death?

i will understand trying to "save" those who were predestinated to life but lost their way, but what of those who are safely "saved," in the arms of the church but were predestinated to death?

you see, this doctrine of predestination poses a catch-22 to the doctrine of salvation by Jesus Christ.

Splinz:
You're getting the bolden wrong. It means this predestination is not something that God predestinated A to fornicate, D to kill, E to worship idols, etc. If it were so, then He is the One responsible for all of our sins.

Asking if the glorified are lost means you don't get the message. I urge you to take your time and read it again. It serves to explain what the bible mean by PREDESTINATION.

here is what i quoted from the book under review, which formed the basis for my questions:

"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death." [ Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, sec. 5.]

fit your sermon into that.

Splinz:
Just What Does Predestination Mean?

There are only four places where the King James Version of the Bible uses either the word “predestinate” or “predestinated.” So, we must certainly admit that the word is in the Bible. It is only its meaning that is still in question. Let’s read the four verses and then return to them for explanation.

The first two places are in Ephesians 1:4-5 and 1:11-12: “According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption [Greek: sonship] of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will…In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will: That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.”

The other two places are in Romans 8:28-30: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He did foreknow [step one], He also did predestinate [step two] to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called [step three]: and whom He called, them He also justified [step four]: and whom He justified, them He also glorified [step five].”

We can already draw two conclusions. Did you see anything about people being predestinated to be either “lost” or “saved”? Emphatically, NO! This idea is just not there and any honest reading of the scriptures cannot make it say this. There is no reference to anyone having their fate predetermined through any supposed doctrine about predestination.

When did God decide to call those who are alive in this age?

Now notice II Timothy 1:9: “Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” This verse does tell us that God decided to call some in this age “before the world began.” This answers the question of when God chose to call us but Ephesians 1:5 explains what was the purpose of our calling.

Ephesians 1:5 said, “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children [Greek: spirit of sonship],” and verse 11 added, “being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things.” These two verses, coupled with II Timothy 1:9, make absolutely plain that God has predestinated certain people to the purpose of becoming sons of God! There is nothing here about being predestinated to be lost or, for that matter, saved—though salvation is described here as the purpose offered to people that God calls.

Carefully notice verse 12 and the phrase “being predestinated…That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.” Paul is recording the fact that God is harvesting a few “firstfruits” now—of those “who first trusted in Christ.” The world will come second, but a few are being called and trained now to be first in God’s plan! This is an amazing and wonderful understanding. Do you grasp it? Can you see the potential within this understanding for how God might use you?

Romans 8 requires some further explanation. It actually describes five separate steps or stages as God works with a Christian from the very beginning all the way to the completion of his salvation. To “foreknow” just means to know before. There is nothing mysterious in the word and, of course, God did know us before we knew Him. At some point in God’s examination and foreknowing of any single person, He predestines, or determines, that person to be “called.” When God’s predetermined time arrives, He calls the person. The person now comes to know who God is (remember, God “foreknew” him, knew him before the one called was aware) because He is revealing Himself during the calling process. If a person responds to the call, and is converted, then that one becomes “justified”—forgiven of his sin and made just before God. Likewise, if the person continues to yield to God throughout his or her life, it will lead to “glorification”—salvation. These are the five steps describing how God works with each person—foreknow, predestine, call, justify and glorify.

Therefore, the subject of predestination has nothing whatsoever to do with being saved or lost, but with being called. More specifically, it has to do with those who are called FIRST.

So then, God decided long ago (“before the world began”) to call a group, over a 6,000-year period, to be trained to rule with Christ. He did not know their names in advance or He would have had to cause all of the fornication, rape, incest and interracial marriage that, to a certain degree, would have been involved in the 6,000 years of events required to produce any particular person. God determined to call the weak, foolish, base and despised of this world to “confound the wise…[and the] mighty” that God will call later (I Cor. 1:26-29).

cc: menxer

thanks for the mention.

this your sermon how does it answer the questions i asked An2elect2 based on what i quoted from the book under review?

i will appreciate if you can answer my questions one on one.

besides, are you saying the "glorified" are lost?
@bolded, does that make sense to you? the all knowing God would not know the name of his children? that is a new one.

after reading through the comments, some people are just pained, frustrated and looking for whom or what to vent it on. the wordings of the letter is immaterial, so far it notifies the NASS of the President's absence, the provisions of the constitution in that regard takes effect.

to all wailers, there is no need masturbating with sand over this.

i have chosen to go along with the Anunnaki version of the creation story, as it aligns more with archaeological facts and scientific discoveries.

An2elect2:
You are welcome Yes feel free to ask any question

I think before considering anything. The first questions we ought to ask ourselves are: Is this a fact in the Bible? If yes... Is it worth looking at? And how is it defined in the Bible?

That aside, the Bible is very clear about the predestination of the elect. This shouldn't even be debated seeing that they are expressly stated or implied in so many passages. One very good example
is Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Before time began, From the foundation of the world, God chose some people to be called and justified in time and be glorified hereafter. It then follows that no one would be called to be a Christian (because a Christian is a person justified by the faith of Christ) without first being predestined.

Moreover, the popular envangelical sub-clause "accepting Christ as personal Lord and saviour" is same as saying Christ isn't the saviour yet until we make him one and His death not enough but only made all he died for "savable". I.e It is insufficient to save a man including changing that man's heart and will towards God.
If truly Christ's death is enough for those he died for, all of them would be brought to life in time by God himself. Hence, receiving Him isnt borne out of a man's will but God's.

Meaning if our accepting Jesus is not borne of our volition but God's, why bother with evangelism?

@bolded, the Bible is not a dictatorial manifesto that cant be questioned, else why did it say "come let's reason together?" or does that imply man has no freewill to ask questions?

@underlined, if one is predestined to eternal damnation why bother with repentance.
How does Jesus death makes someone God predestined to eternal death "savable?"
Will changing a man's heart and will change his predestination?
If that is true then predestination is circumventable, which makes the whole presdestination construct fallible and a fallacy.

The reason God is said to know the end from the beginning is why he is said to be infallible, and this is the foundation of predestination; and if predestination is circumventable by the death of Jesus, it makes God Fallible.... Which is unacceptable by Christian standard.

An interesting read.
i will be asking questions as i read along. i hope that is allowed.


"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death." [ Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, sec. 5.]

if the above is true, how can one predestinated to eternal death be saved by "accepting Jesus as personal Lord and saviour?"

googling "alternative sources of income" yielded about 151,000,000 results does not mean there are 151,000,000 alternative sources of income to choose from.

just like googling "sex positions" yielded about 27,600,000 results, does not mean you have 27,600,000 sex positions to choose from.

dwag:
Which Alternative Sources of Income stood out for You.

I typed “Alternative Sources of Income” on world famous and most popular search engine “Google” and in 0.53 seconds, One Hundred and Twenty Five Million results (125,000,000) were thrown at me.

The question is in this myriad of information, how do I intelligently navigate the labyrinth of available alternative sources of income to get the one that will stand out and help put the much needed alternative source of income into my pocket and bank account, particularly in this time of recession “or is it recovering recession”.

Na waooooooo! The options were very many. Emmmmm let me think, ponzi? Absolutely no; no and no. It is very unreliable and not sustainable. Network marketing! Yes!!!!!!!!!!! But which one is reliable, trust worthy and with a proven payout track records?

sowing mean investing, how is giving money to another person an investment?
if i invest money in stock market, i expect to and should make money from the stock market not from the civil service when i have nothing doing with the civil service.

so a N10,000 business can grow into a billion Naira company if just 10% of the profit is reinvested?
i wonder how long that will take, if it is not a church business.

"the children of this world in their generation are wiser than the children of light" when this kind of thinking is displayed by the children of light.

proffemi:
I disagree completely sir!
If you (or I) can't discuss this with your (my) teenage kids, then, that's your (or my) failure as a parent!!!
It's your job, or your spouses, to introduce this topic to your kids, because:

1. Most of the teachers are not competent enough to handle in a responsible manner, and can get unnecessarily lurid.
2. The time they spend in class, teaching ~25 - 50 students, will not be sufficient to answer the questions generated in so many curious and precocious minds. Those minds will fill the gaps. If daddy and mummy cannot do it for them (see my first point), God help daddy, mummy, and kid.

you are right, parents have a role to play in this to supplement whatever is taught in class, but some parents are, should i say timid to even discuss sex with an adult not to talk of with their teenage kids.

secondly, if the topic is handled by a teacher that is also a parent, would make a lot of difference.

what are we shouting?

do we want our children to grow up ignorant of these things or get to know by trial and error?

how many of us are bold enough to discuss sex in a positive way with our teenagers?

i believe it is better it is mentioned in class where the teenagers can ask questions without feeling ashamed

here is a short cut:

http://guys.fadamaaf.net

AnthonioAlsaid:
Read my post again
You'd see BE GONE at the bottom
Make good use of it

eradicating the attributes of the half educated is part of the "aluta continua."
so sad you are not making good use of the resources at your disposal.

i am done and gone from thee.

AnthonioAlsaid:
If you had sense to understand my point rather that seeking Google to help you criticize

You'd have realize we wanted to pass the same info.

Now be gone

oooh!
so you knew where to find Google, and still make wrong assertions or fact twisting is your profession?
point of correction, we are not passing the same info. if you had wanted to do such you would have seen and acknowledge your mistake and not this....

AnthonioAlsaid:

Latin was composed out of Spanish and Portuguese


In fact Spanish and Portuguese almost sound alike

Save some few variations

So invariably he was right when he said Latin

this is what this aluta continua is fighting, ignorance and fallacious assertions.
Latin is the root from which Romance languages, such as Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Romanian was developed and not the other way round.

bizzibodi:
so this samora machel is a revolutionist on d same pedestal with fidel castro,cheiguvera,karl max,mandela,san suu ki, martin luther king but african left him unsung!

that is the purpose of this thread in a way, you can't sing a song you don't know the lyrics, you can hum it at best, which is why most of us 'hum' "aluta continua, victoria ascerta" without 'singing' the freedoms song that followed.

I won't doubt this survey, because from my discussion with friends and people I realized that some people don't know a lot about the facts of the Bible they defend with so much passion.

I was shocked when a friend of mine, who is a leader in her church, argued that Jacob didn't have children from four women in the bible.

omenkaLives:
Really?

APDA: advanced Peoples Demonic Alliance.

Meaning for you to join & succeed you must not only be advanced (in age) but must also be demonic.

Great!

I was just thinking, what if God didn't create man to worship and praise him as we are made to believe?

We have robots we created in different areas of our lives, did man create robots to worship and praise him?
I guess not, but to do certain task that is too dangerous or tedious for man to do, reduce stress in some aspects of man's life.

The Bible says God created man to tend the Garden of Eden, which in this case was an industrial complex.

MhissBelva:
you must b a very funny somebody oo
u really got me laughing

Icecream4U:
What?! Even when you finish from the back?

Different people end their praying session in different ways, some with just a simple "Amen", others with singing, others with words of affirmation, whatever or however you choose to end it is up to you; same with sex, Ending it on the back is award winning and is recommended.