₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
I think the continual subscription to the school of thought that African's are different from the rest of the world is another major problem we have in Africa. If you look at China, for instance, the country only started developing and moving forward when it started to borrow from already successful models out there and applying those to it's own for development sake. If you look at what China is doing today, it is no longer using the whole " WE ARE UNIQUE" model but basically COPYING all it can from other societies that have sucessfully developed their countries and basically applied it to it's own to propel it to where it is today. If you look back about 20 years ago, when China was still playing the UNIQUE card and compare things in that country to what is today, you find there is a huge difference.
I will pick an example from within Africa. South Africa for one. Has remained polarized for decades. Forget what is happening now but that country has never really had a united white force nor has it had a united black force and that is the case even to this day. Ghana remains divided on issues but the people have realized that a focus on progress instead of the divisions is the way to go. They are not necessarily united in their ideologies or cultures but in the fact that individually people have come to realize that for their own good, in order to have a progressive society, each person has to play his or her own part. Another example is Kenya.

We could go on and on with this but I am sorry, I simply do not buy the idea that we must all come together in a hug before we can all understand that we must all play our part to build a nation. We have in advanced countries today people from different cultures and regions of the world working side by side, not cause they agree but cause they understand that doing their part is the only way they can build a better life for themselves and for their families, at the end of the day. Even bitter neighbours live side by side for years cause they understand it is what they must do to progress. We do not have to get to a point where we claim we have extinguished the flames of tribalism ( which I do not see as the problem), before we can say we are ready to make progress in that country. We can do that despite of our differences.

I'll get back to you on the china issue and South Africa as well cause those were the very countries I was going to use to support my points. Have to log off now though.

darfur:
doesnt this show that something is intrinsically wrong with the blackman?

@mpele
nigeria hosted the junior world cup in 99'

Nope nothing wrong with black people, its called the spears to guns effect. We were not allowed to go through the natural evolutionary steps of "becoming"and were soundly interrupted by some crzay pale skinned individuals, if you don't think thats a major influence on our psyche then what. the arguement against that would be oh haven't you been free for a while not. yeah right how the hell can we be when the same damn people that influenced the change in the continent are still doing the same thing now jsut thorughmore dubious means

Nigeria 2010, yes oh bring it here at least we don't have xenophobic running aroung rampantly

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe everyone will agree with you on this assumption of yours. I do not have to have a continued understanding of the peoples who live within the continent to understand that I need to work to build better schools so that my children and grandchildren can enjoy excellent education and also live better lives than I do today. I am not sure I agree with your assessment of what it takes to progress in Africa at all. I would say you try to understand that there is no one way to progress. There are numerous ways of approaching issues and Africa's case is not unique. I do expect that to happen actually. To build a society where people coexist, there are so many ways to accomplish this without necessarily advocating that people ought to be united to achieve this. I can give you so many examples of countries around the world today where the people are not necessarily united but when it comes to progress, they understand it is needed for their own existence and the continuance of their bloodline.
I disagree with you on this.

The very fact that even within tribes and cultures, there continues to exist serious divisions, ought to clue us all in to the fact that maybe Unity is not necessarily the solution to our problem. Change starts from the bottom up,that I agree with. If Africans can go abroad and immediately learn to act right and work hard, even in a society where they practically do not understand the culture let alone agree with most of the ideaologies, I believe that we do not need to unite Africans FIRST before we get progress in Africa.

Africa's history is quite unique compared to other civilizations which is why its case study should be approached in a very different manner. I know we might go off topic now but for my edification I'd like an example of such societies that you are referencing to that points to the evidence of your view. I beg to differ when you say "they do not understand the cultures they are moving into let alone agree with the idealogies. The "hardwork" is the culture, even then economics/development, though a major driving factor for people moving to the US/Europe, is not the only reason.

The reason I mentioned Botswana as a case study to bolster my point is, if one studies the society you will realize that the unifying factor that brought about increased stability and ecomony is not soley as a result of their wanting or realizing the fact that they needed to develop but what necessitated the desire to develop which are the factors that contributed to the outcome. There is pratically "one tribe" that exists in Botswana, their "culture" of peaceful coexistence fostered by their cohesiveness in government because of lack of divisions and the willingness to tackle a "unifying problem" i.e lack of real resources forced the government to lay down the tracks for implementation of policies which gave them the opportunity to send their young out to recieve world class education and incentive to return back to "DEVELOP" their country.

Kobojunkie:
Some sort of cohesion even exists in societies where people are divided on issues ( Major and minor). I do not subscribe to the idea that there is no progress without complete unity. The way I see it, we are as united right now, why not focus on progress Now instead of waiting for some fanthom time when africans will be united. Keyword being WILL BE.
I have asked that question and gotten responses already. Enough to make me reaslize it is not what I see for africa at all. Why assume I do not know what I am speaking of just cause you do not agree with my view?? I think you ought to be the one asking me what I mean when I say I do not believe in the whole AFRICA UNITE mess.

I am not assuming that you do not know what you are talking about,only that after reading several of your threads and responses in other similar discussions, you refuse to realize that the progress you are advocating cannot be achieved without somesort of understanding and continued understanding of the peoples that live within the continent. You cannot expect the Nigerians to work together to build a sound society without somehow fostering unity among its people in terms of coexistence with one another, understanding of their cultures and continuous exchange of ideas and cultures through education and reeducation. Hand in hand with sound steps to progress will yield an even better society.

You say we should build Africa towards progress. I say the underlying problem that hounds this statement is the lack of Unity and understanding amongst it people, whether within a country or the overall continent. If some how excused or left unchecked will result in an escalating probability of regression even if that society somehow achieves economic progress. Compare the societies of South African and Botswana today.  

You cannot expect Nigerians to begin to progress when there is the underlying problem of tribalism, misunderstanding and stereotyping of cultures. If you just begin to progress in terms of infrastructure, politics and economics, where is the evidence that such societies have been able to sustain this progression without encouraging somesort of unity. Look at South Africa now, is their biggest problem their infrastructure or their political stability or how to sustain these achievements at this point in time, the country is in the beginning stages of suspicion of one another and likely divisions, if they refuse to address this problem and reeducate their populous they are in for it. There is unity is likeminded thinkers but no unity is just having the best infrastructure or top of the line economy, not sustainable in the long run.

Change starts from the bottom up not the other way round and if they are not careful S. Africa is about to become and example of such a tragedy.

Kobojunkie:
As for the "AFRICA UNITE" and the "ONE AFRICA" rants, can I suggest that we get over that ( IMHO) DELUSION already?? Africa has NEVER been united and the changes of that happening are next none. So why continue with such a delusion instead of focusing on building the continent even with the division that remains. I believe most of it is based on people's perception of how united africans are. A united Africa will not necessarily fix the problems we have in Africa today. Hugs and kisses are not the solution but dedication to progress no matter how different we see things, is more likely to help change things.

Can I suggest you get over not seeing the unification of African peoples in terms of economics, political stability and brotherhood.
"Africa has NEVER been united" does not mean African can never unite. I don't know the definition to you of "Unity" means we are somehow advocating the whole of Africa to become one people with one language and one President(which is not that bad of an ideas seeing that it would foster coexistence between the peoples).


How do you build a continent without somesort of cohesion or strife for Unity in some form. There is no progress without unity.

maybe you should ask the right questions of what people mean by African Unity and a united Africa before calling anyone delusional in their thought process.

A pessimist is one whose attitude and perception is void of hope, for hope is the achievement of the impossible even in the face of impossibility. Some people call such individuals who advocate these views as dreamers and delusional but if one sifts through history the greatest changes have begun are with people that many declared dreamers or delusional.

Something to marinate on.

RSA:
Allow me to first apologise to millions of African in the content and abroad for the situation in my country,I don't know if it is necessary to explain and correct some of the misleading reporting in this forum and some media.
The attacks happen in the poorest area in the country,residents say the attacks are carried out by hostel dwellers,who are believed to be paid by a third force.Hostel dwellers are people who come mostly from Kwazulu natal to look for jobs and they end up staying in the hostels mostly men.this people are mostly zulu's(if you've been following our history you will remember that we almost went into civil war,zulu's(inkata freedom party) and the African Nation Party(the current gorvement).
Who ever payed this people knew that the was a feeling amongst poor people that immigrants mostly from Zimbabwe and Mozambique are taking their jobs because they take any money and that they are responsible for the crime wave in the country where 20000 people are murdered every year.They(third force) knew that they need something to trigger the feeling of this poor and desparate people.Majority of us where looking in despair,shame and disbelief.I think this took us all by suprise.Nigeria didn't suffer as much as it was pointed out,most Nigeria don't live in the squater camps as this places are known.

Hosting the world cup is a challenge because it take out every little dirty laundry and put it in public,there will be lot of issues that will come out before we host and I hope that our goverment will be able to deal with it.
South African preparation is well on track,road,airports,stadia,hotels ,rail and transport will be an asset to south africa for many years to come,world cup will leave a lasting legacy on and off the pitch.

Thousand and thousand of us march accross our cities to show that we South African loves our brothers,we apologise and we will continue appologising until Africa feel that we decerve pardon.
Africa Unite,and One Africa!

Allow me to concur with you RSA on the very accurate points you have made above, unfortunately many hear fall victim to the same rantings that the same south Africans who committed these heinous crimes subscribe to.

I do believe the reason Nigerians are venting so much on this forum surpasses the events that took place. They do experience xenophobia and a skewed perception of Nigerians as a whole in South Africa, not to exclude what some dubious Nigerians are doing in SA is untrue but one cannot view a people by the bad examples that a few portray which is the point you were trying to make.

Continue to educate your people on who the majority of Nigerians really are and Likewise we will do the same. Every nations have faults but as long as the majority do not share the views of the naive, illiterate few, there is hope for brighter future.

As far as the World Cup is concerned. I will not attend in protest and will continue to advocate it not being held in South Africa to join in the forces that will put pressure on your relaxed government to step up its efforts. It took too long for them to respond to last week's crisis, not a good sign, what if something like this repeats itself when the world is watching. if things change maybe I'll change my mind too

Mongue:
I am reading an excellent book called "THE GOD DELUSION" by Richard Dawkins.

It has opened my eyes up to the amazing level of ignorance and misinformation that religions create. So I started asking people here in Nigeria:

1. How old is the World?
2. Have you ever heard of dinosaurs?
3. If yes (only a very small percentage got this far) do you believe they existed?
4. Have you ever heard about evolution?

I was honestly quite shocked at the responses I have heard so far. Admittedly a lot of those I have asked so far have not been well educated people but still, I really didn't believe that anyone could still think the world was only 7000 years old. But even some educated people seem to reject this on the basis of their book

So I open the questions up to all you Nairalanders and am very interested to hear your responses.

If you want after answering you can also say if you believe in a God or not?

There is mass evidence to prove that large creatures called" dinosaurs" did exist by fossils found so that cannot be disputed "Unless some how the Devil, planted them there to decieve us for what reason I don't know"

The earth is obviously older than 6 thousands years old as explained by the poster Mrmayor.

Evolution is a study which is helping to explain the origins and adaptations of many species that exist in the world today however if your question is leaning towards why many in this forum will not even consider the evidence presented to them is that they are told by their "superiors" that it is nothing but heresy and poison and should seek not to investigate these proven facts yet most of them rely on the benefits of these studies for their survival today.

I for one have drawn no conclusions as the existence of God being that no one has proven that he does not exist and I seem to observe things that defy belief and sound evidence. Therefore I choose to borrow a verse from the good book which challenges me to seek out the truth and hold steadfast to it.

simmy:
1. Mutations do happen. It is my personal opinion that mutations do not occur frequently enough to account for the diversity of life we see on our planet,even if the earth was a gazzillion gajillion years old. Even when you take into consideration introduction of genes to viruses and radiation and all possible causes put together.
An arguement on mutation is a topic for another thread and you re welcome to start such a thread.This is an ongoing dispute at the highest circles of knowledge in biology so we both wont reach any conclusions fom exchanging ideas. It is also of my personal opinion that the variation and diversity we see on earth can only be accounted for by a sudden spontaneous arrival at biological complexity. Note that this is my personal opinion as i realise that i have no direct evidence to substantiate my claim. However, evolutionists have not yet put forward a convincing arguement to prove the veracity of their claims either (once again, my opinion and also that of numerous scientists and other well informed people).

I am not one to take the biblical accounts strictly literarily; just like nobody takes all the words in even an informal letter from a friend literarilly. a good deal of common sense is needed to understand the bible. so when the bible indirectly claims the earth is only 6000 years old, instead of criticising it is not difficult or too far fetched to realise that the bible was talking about the age of civilised man. civilised man is roughly give or take a few thousand years ; 6000 years old. However, time is not an important factor for creationists as it is for evolutinist. A spontaneous sudden arrival of biological life forms needs just a day to take effect


2. Yes. Man was created black in the sense that he was crerated with melanin in his skin. when he migrated to parts of the world with very high intensity of sunlight, a mechanism triggered of the production of more melanin, thereby making him darker. Evolution came into play in the sense that people who found it easier to produce melanin survived while those who couldnt died off eventually and the negroid race was created. in essence, man became darker but he was always dark. Even so, some really white skinned negroes still exist(top of my head example:some suprsilinly light skinned igboes exist in Nigeria, i have dated some of them and i was always fascinated by their almost white skin)

A mutation is an anomaly (in the sense that it is not normal). Mutations created variants of humans who didnt have any melanin(albino) or very little melanin (white) these people couldnt stand the sunlight they were exposed to in the fertile crescent (middle east and northern africa, where civilisation is generally accepted to have sprung up from) and so they migrated to colder parts of the world where their was less sunlight. they became isolated and developed characteristics that are consistent with the race called Caucasian.
note that even though i agree that evolution plays a strong role in the development of the human race i do not use the very broad term evolution to mean what die hard evolutionists claim it should mean. Evolution simply means change. change in the sense that when u were born u were a baby. now, i assume you are an adult. hence, u have evolved. saying that u evolved from some apelike creature to what u are now simply tasks my brain even if it does not task yours.
broad and wide sweeping


3. present day scientists cannot group races into 3 groups because they have tried to do these divisions in detail. They do not use the biblical groupins anymore not because they disagree with them but because scientific knowledge has allowed us to go far more into detail than Moses (or whoever wrote Genesis) did.

4. I still do not see how you have debunked the story of Noah s kids or how you can. The dude who wrote the story simply divided the races he was aware of into three very broad groups. Semitic , Hamitic and Japhetic (or proto-iberian). the dude was not writing a scientific journal, yet for a historical book he was reasonably accurate. at least accurate enough for scientists, almost 4000 years later to still agree with his very broad, naive, amaterish yet fairly accurate groupings

I didn't debunked the Noah story and its "Historical account of races." It debunked itself by the inaccuracies the authors present in their linkage with genealogy and race that have researched by science and evidence, thus the abandonment of these classifications of peoples.

If a historical account is to be reasonable accurate it has to present truths that can test the scrutiny of research and confirmation without bias.

Again I am not disputing the genealogy of the Noah only that it bears no relevance to the races that exist today in the world and the church should be taught to shrug off these connections which are filled with racist innuendos and fallacies by authors who had a skewed sense of the world and themselves.

Mpele:
Girls will kill just to be with me. I'm so handsome and you all know it. At least I'm not pitch black like coal! as most Nigerians are. Enjoy your weekends shitheads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rants from a boy who is suffering from identity crisis. Come to Igbo land you will see many who look better than you with your dreads looking like SIDESHOW BOB from the simpsons.

Oh yeah speak more of your russian too its driving the naija girls crazy.

What did this little boy do to your people that you want to hack him to pieces. If I saw a video like this of my fellow citizens trying to destroy such a young life like this I would shoot them myself without blinking

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7416739.stm

Unfortunately that Mpele boy is a victim of brainwash He continous to rain abuses on nigerians and post pics of people darker than he is to some how exclude himself from the Black race knowing fullly well that He is black by all accounts.

I guess somebody forgot to remind him of that. I challenge him to tell you what race he is. Your White forfathers have brainwashed you to divide and concur your ass, feeding you the scraps off their table and you slurping it up.

Your World Cup is doomed. You hear me doomed, doomed, doomed. It is being mention in almost every news report. Travel warnings are being issued from several consulates .Who will come to your country now when your government can't even control riots see they are in cape town now and getting closer to you. They just started with foreigners. It will end with you and your White brothers. At least the foreigners have somewhere to go. Where will you run too. Amsterdam?. You wont't really be accepted there as much as you think.

Back to topic please before they ban all of us or Sheniqua come skata this mongrel.

londoner:
I think we need to remember that  Mpele is just a product of his environment.

If SA governement and others do nothing and the violence continues, I think some neighbouring countries should set up camps for Zimbabwean and other refugees. It would be inhuman to leave them so exposed.

The more reason he should be chastised so he can think a little deeper instead of venting out his inner frustrations on this forum.

latest new is that they are sending in the army to support the police now, and a state of emergency should be called upon.  They are pretty much stuck there. Where would they go back to zimbabwe, not an option, Botswana not really condusive since the government is a little more hard line on immigration, Namibia no chance, not a strong enough economy, nothing for mozambique unless they want to be catching fish all day, The rest of Africa is messed up and language barriers would make it hard for them to survive in francophone speakind African. Nigeria is too far off, what would be the point.

sheniqua:
Of course mpele aka nwa mkpi
we don't expect you to associate with people that have a full mental capacity.
Which "half Nigerian" will claim to be non Nigerian if not a lost efulefu like yourself.
didn't someone say something about birds of the same feather.
Hopefully you learnt that part in school since it seems the only things they taught you non white folks was how to milk the cows and bake pita bread

Sheniqua, You harsh oh, remind me not to get on your bad side in this forum. Haba. i

Its not his fault he taught he was dealing with illiterates which is why when he was exposed especially the "Russian thing" he quickly took to his heels.

Solutions to the on going issues;

Have the OAU and the ANC government put pressure on Mugabe to accept transition to democracy in his country and stop this bullshit Dictatorship he is running. This is turn will allow a trickling effect of Zimbabweans back to their home country, reduce the burden on the SA government so their resources can be allocated to the ones who need them.

Teach these illiterates the skills they need to be competive in a global market where factors of production are allowed to move freely in a capitalist/democratic government so they don't feel resentment when they see competition on their doorsteps.

Re-educate the populous( ie the very poor and uneducated) how to become self reliant so they don't fall into a culture of entitlement from their government. Entitlement breeds anger. Anger breeds hatred. Hatred breeds blood shed.

The reason you see Nigerians leave the country in droves (especially igbos) is that their culture does not promote entitlement or laziness. They will rather sojourn to the ends of the earth in other to be self reliant and self sufficient seeing that they are marginalized in Nigeria. The culture is just not there.

The South African government is to blame for this fiasco. They saw the warning signs but Mbeki's pro business government is neglecting these people in an effort to fatten the pockets of the ANC which why I advocate and continue to advocate hitting the country where it will hurt the most and that is its economy. This has nothing to do with hate a payback, merely  a strategy I see viable.

Mpele:
La nnyela dimpya ke lona. La nkga ebile ga le tlhape. O kare le ka bolai la se tlhole le tshela baloi ke lona. Le se ka La bo la tlhola le lo baya fa Afrika Borwa. Moenie hier kim nie, hoor julle bliksem.

This Mpele boy is suffering, can't you people see it. He ain't no white boy by all definitions. He told you his father is dutch, whats his mother. he hates the black in him cause he can't stand the thought of it.

Transport him to old missisipi and they'll be ringing his neck up in a tree. He's African alright by biogeographical decent but is torn between two worlds and naturally he will accept the one that seems to put him on the advantage.

Mpele make an appointment with a psychologist, you are suffering from identity issues man  Dutch-Bantu-possibly khoisan Hybird like yourself. Like you want the naijas to leave your country. Please leave this forum, you are not beind constructive anymore, can't handle your emotions man.

I vote Ghana. They did quite well hosting the nations cup and are relatively more stable.

Ghana 2010. Hehehehehe!

landis:
it went to SA because of the whites. The white world always have ways of taking care of their own.

SA is 100% more dangerous than Nigeria; yet they gave them world cup. It has nothing to do with those BLACK SA.

The whites there will still make all the money from the worldcup.

Unfortunately you are right. I guess I ain't gonna make it there in 2010 after all , don't want to put any money into the economy of a country that displays such an act and I will not advice anyone to do so at this point in time unless things change drastically.

Have to wait a few more years, hopefully they will bring it to Ghana. They did quite well hosting the Cup of nations and they are a relatively stable nation in comparison.

Please  make your feels known by sending an email to the below address

Ps only voice your concerns as to the situation bearing in mind that the consulate is located in the United States.

Do not use any derogatory language when sending an email. I sent one and was replied to stating the governments efforts in trying to deal with the situation.  This is the least I can do in making my voice heard.


ambassador.washington@foreign.gov.za

And you people will still not agree with me to BOYCOTT, maybe when you see it continue till the end of the week.

The government is trying to ride this storm and hope in a couple of days we will forget this ever happened.

How do you convince a nation that this type of act will not be tolerated other than putting pressure on them with any leverage you have.

My cousins live in Durban in the area this is going on and are terrified to go anywhere now.

You people should stop raining abuses amongst yourself.

The reason I am saddened is because I was looking forward to going to SA for the World cup as this is the first time it would be hosted on Subsaharan- African soil, fully proud of S. Africa for managing to pick up the hosting rights.

You see riots like this on T.V and it does not encourage you investing in that trip anymore, even though its an opportunity of a lifetime.

I am for boycotting the World cup on the basis that there is growing hostility towards other Africans in that country. No doubt about that. I mean I live in the states and I even feel xenophobia from SAn's as hard as that is to believe.

Again in my observation the government is not giving these matters due attention and from what I've seen are simply trying to ride the storm through hoping we will all forget about it pretty soon.

Mpele:
Yes I think that it was necessary for me to do that because some Morpheus said that the world cup must be taken away from us. South Africa earned this world cup. It was not given to us like Germany. We earned the right to host it through sheer hardwork. Just because some morons decide to beat up people the your some insane Nigerian thinks that the world cup must be taken away from us hell no!! Countries like America that wiped out Vietnamesse hosted the world cup in 94. Germany that wiped out more than a million Jews hosted the world cup in 1974 and 2006, did your people complain NO! Just because some Nigerian illegal immigrant was beatern up in Johannesburg you now think that the World Cup must be taken away from us. Its high time Nigerians realises that their voices don't hold water anywhere. There is this underlying jelousy about South Africa from Nigerians.

Always wanting South Africa to fail. HANDS OFF THE WORLD CUP

Jelousy is the last emotion I am feeling right now toward SA. I mention boycotting the World cup to mirror the seriousness of the events taking place. At this point in time I don't think it will matter much in changing 2010, but if you feel the incidents that are taking place in the country are not affecting  people's comfortable levels and what they might experience during the upcoming events then you are wrong.

The objective is to keep pressure on your government so they don't underestimate the implications of allowing such riots to go on for several number of days, even moving to Durban now.

londoner:
Mpele, people are just appauled, sometimes people speak out of anger. Dont worry, we are not going to start burning your footie players (I hope). I think we all know that its a minority who are doing the killing. However, I must say that there is a culture of xenphobia where South Africans are concerned, especially towards other Black Africans. Many tend to believe they are superior. I think you even alluded to that attitude earlier on. Having said that, that is not the issue. I see no change for the good in Africa unless we start to value lives of those in Black skin. That goes for every African country, including my own.

We tend to skirt around the real issues, because no matter how much we are frustrated we tend to protect the very classes who are keeping all the wealth, whether Black or White.

Its always easier to lash out at the ones closest to us, if you are poor, the rich are too far out of reach to touch, both physically and psychologically.

Mark my words, Black South Africans will soon turn in on themselves.

Londoner , I have been reading most of your posts and you are spot on regarding what is really going on in S. Africa.
do independent studies on African history and politics and its good to see someone who can really presents genuine insights and analysis into this matter without prejudice. The last statement you made concerning the South Africans turning on themselves is almost an inevitability.

Soon it will become Zulu against xhosa, ndebele, Tshwane, coloreds, indians and so on, if this trend continues. The reason it never spills into the white communities is that they will under no circumstances tolerate it, plus they have the political and military backing from other developed countries who have an economic stake in the country and will not let it that happen.

South Africa is a very young democracy and is vulnerable to all the problems that have plagued such democracies, I will not be surprised if somewhere in the near future they don't spiral into a civil war, I mean judging from history almost which African country hasn't for some reason fallen victim to this phenomenon.

Mbeki looks wornout, if he is a true leader he will confront this problems vigorously knowing fully well that if he does not, he will be allowing more problems to arise as time goes on. Zuma ain't helping out too much and his "man of the people" appeal is fading amongst other ethnic groups in S. Africa. During Apartheid the different groups had a commont enemy which fostered their unity now there is no more bougeyman.

Personally I think the world cup should be boycotted or even still taken away from them. It doesn't seem the government is visibly working hard enough to prove they deserve it. Their eyes are on the revenue that will be generated.

Mpele:
Go to hell you jeolous, inferior, filthy, barbaric, saveges, bastards.

My friend now is not the time to be posting such things. Let the smoke clear first before you start doing things like this. Peoples emotions are still running hot.

You are not helping yourself either by shouting back abuses at the posters who are attacking you . If you know you can't stay the high road on this then stop posting this rubbish.

huxley:
did u see my post above? and the references to a book and some videos?

just watched the videos. Very informative. Appreciate that a whole lot.

simmy:
@morpheus
im typing this out in a great hurry because im at work and i really should b doin smthng more constructive.
i tried to read through your highly emotive outbursts on this thread and i find your statements consistently full of half truths.
for instance i remember ( i remember not to what purpose) you trying to logically present to us how the red blood cell of a sickler got to be in the shape of a sickle. your argument was reasonable (tho i questioned some of your logic) but inherently flawed for one simple reason. It was FALSE! simply because something is logical does not make it true. that s what u refer to as erroneus thinking.

Now as to how the black man became balck
1. the black man did not become black, it was the white man that became white. white skin is an anomaly, a mutation close to albinism. its simply skin without melanin. the earliest men were probably closer to negroid than anything else
2. someone said (i remember not who) that since there are more than 3 races in the world , we all couldnt have come from shem ham and japhet; (and u agreed) a statement i would expect from my three year old neice due to its naivety.
3. i am not claiming the whole world came from shem ham and j, neither am i disputing the fact but it should be interesting to note that scientists generally divide the worlds races into three very broad groups which are congruent with what the bible claims to be the descendants of shem , ham and j
4. Note that present day negroes fall into the very broad group scientists refer to as hamitic.
5. at worst the biblical account can be viewed as an early attemp atgrouping the races of the world. ( a fairly accurate one if u ask me)

Tracing the origins of all of the races of the earth is still an ongoing process which still baffles scientists, so whatever we say on this thread is subject to a great deal of speculation


PS in case u are wondering the sickle shape of a sicklers rbc is simply due to mutation. nothing else. the link with malaria is simple. those who carried a recessive sicker gene also carried an slight immunity to malaria and so they thrived in parts of the world where malaria was endemic. they naturally died out in other parts of the world

The purpose of my refering to the mutation that occurs in the blood cells of sickle cell carriers was to "prove" the occurance of mutations in biological organisms. This being the key element in my understanding of human races and how we came about our physical features as it is evident that these mutations played an essential role in our anthropological differences and not some story drawn out by a Jew who used his understanding of biblical references to infer on the races or peoples that populated the world within a span of 6 thousand years. You yourselve know the variations in humans cannot be accounted for in this time frame unless you are taking the bible account figuratively.


Its link to malaria is to show deductive reasoning in concluding that the occurance of genetic mutations are in direct correlation to enviromental factors ( ie viruses, sun light, lack of thereof and so on) that subsequently influence adaptability. The logic behind your phrase" and ", nothing else" would lead me to believe that there is evidence that you believe mutations are sporadic and spontaneous. The definition of mutations last time I read includes possible causes by introduction to viruses. Please see below link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_mutations

You state that simply because something is logical does not make it true. Then again the statment cannot be rendered absolutely false either because you nor I have eliminated that possiblity.


Another thing you say is the black man did not become black. How then did they become? was he born as such. Did God make black people first. Were all early men all black before mutations caused them to become fairer skinned. I don't believe white or fairer skin is an anomaly but a mutation that was rapidly sustained as a survical mechanism for people who lived in regions that fostered this occurence and have evidence to back that up.

Your third point says that "it should be interesting to note that scientists generally divide the worlds races into three very broad groups which are congruent with what the bible claims to be the descendants of shem , ham and j"

Note that those scientist were obviously influenced by their ethnocentriic or should I say Eurocentric viewpoints(fact which can be proven again) and by the writings of scholars who eluded to the 3 sons story thus the groupings of present day negroes into hamitic people. Present day scientist do not use those categories any longer seeing that its origins are not well founded.( Notice the descendants of Japhet don't group themselve into japhetic tribes do they?)

I agree that "at worst the biblical account can be viewed as an early attempt at grouping the races of the world as far as accuracy, well that leaves much to be debated.


Most people do not care or find the subject matter tedious and complex but I don't. the more information I get the more the story of the 3 sons is debunked for me which is why I made reference to them earlier because this was my starting point.

if you have anything to add to help me further my understanding please feel free to reply

sheniqua:
Where is Seun when you need him
This amorphous poster has to be banned.
Kobo if you respond,you need to be stripped of your moderating abilities and banned too.
get over yourselves

back to topic.

Please can you spell my name right.
I am addressing Kobo and again have not insulted him I am simply defending my viewpoint if Kobo wishes he can stop replying my posts and the arguement will be deemed a stale mate.

Kobojunkie:
And this is the point where you lost me cause I have no clue how you arrived at this being the solution the government, which has yet to announce what it hopes to do to solve the problem, will go with. Hence the reason why this argument of yours remains baseless.


Look if you want to continue expanding on your scenario in your mind, be my guest but like I mentioned earlier, this topic is not about the advantages and disadvantages of immigration or deportation but about what is going on now in South Africa, it's roots and what next for South Africa.

I didn't say the government has made any plans on doing so, neither did I imply this in anyway. I don't get your logic for even saying that.

First you say my points are baseless because I mention what the people of S. Africa are asking for. I mean when you hear statements like "Get out of my country you Makwerekwere" and " they are taking our jobs and our women". What do you think the people are saying. Lets talk to the foreigners. Please use your intuition and see past your own self proclaimed insight into S. Africa

You need to go back and read my first post again cause its obvious you just want to talk for talking sake. You are the one who responded to my post first as I was explaining why no one should use the "Ghana must go" story to try to justify anything before some other posts led me to delve into deportations and resentment.

Everything I am saying has base with what is happening in S. Africa, just cause you can't see it or want to acknowledge it doesn't mean it s not  there.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
You say this topic is not about adv or disadv of immigration but what is going on in South Africa. What the hell then is going on in South Africa? looting and rioting. I guess.

Keep trying to knock my base and I'll keep exposing how small your mind is compared to mind.

Kobojunkie:
Then maybe you need to stop directing your responses to me cause  I have absolutely no clue what you are going on and on about. I simply corrected your assumption that your claim that 100% deportation does not solve problems is not based on factual information as there are both examples for good and bad for such in history. Stating that it is one sided is ridiculous. You came up with Jews and Germany as 100% for your claim and I stated you can not do that in a sane argument. So again, What the frell has advantages of deportation or not to do with this issue?? I have no clue and I really do not care for the points which you make that I continue to tell you have practically nothing to do with this.

At least you made one thing clear to me that you have absolutely no clue as to what I am going on about.

What are the S. africans rioting about? Scarce resources
What are they telling their government to do? Get rid of the problem of crime and competition caused by the immigrants

How does the government do that? Deportation or repatriate them i.e kick em out

How is that going on and on about nothing?

My "assumption" is based on fact and you even elude to that by you saying they are both "examples" of good or bad is history. isn't history fact but again you don't care to really debate on that do you. Jews and Germans is one example of many my friend. We didn't finish the arguement so you are assuming.

You are attempting to scatter my points by insinuating they are not related to your previous posts regarding explanations from Mbeki to Yardua or problems Nigerians are creating in S.Africa and I am expanding on that scenario.

My guy don't worry stick to your topic and I'll stick to mine it is obvious you can't see the relationship or relevance. If you however want to continue shutting down my points by deviating from my logic then feel free and  I'll respond.

romeo:
He did not insult you in any form!! rather he made very interesting points which you ingnored by attacking him without making any effort to respond!!

just my own opinion

Thank you o o jare bros abi if I am insulting others would say the same. Tell him to answer me.

I don't know which debate he is talking about. I think I need to take my meds. I must be deluding.

Kobojunkie:
good for you then!!

Problem is if you try to link his so called points to the thread, you would understand why they are meaningless to this debate. Not a single person has said anything about deporting all immigrants being the solution here. SA government has a right to do that if that be the solution they choose for the situation. I do not understand why we would want to deviate from the current debate to start debating what immigration practises work and which do not work when we all know that there is no ONE FITS ALL solution to such problems.

How can my points be meaningless to the debate? haba go back and read the threads from beginning again. Everything I have enumerated makes sense whether you are discussing Nigeria, S.Africa, illegal immigration, deportation, economic frustration, instability, illiteracy, poverty, starvation. You choose not to connect the dots. Again your micro point of view on things.

My guy debate or keep quiet!

londoner:
I seem to be missing something here. Where these Nigerian deported or physically attacked/killed?

How does this relate to the Ghana must go saga? Or indeed the Nigeria must go which proceeded it?

How does deporting people relate to burning people alive and beating them to death? It has nothing whatsoever to do with eachother, its just a case of the usual Nigerian attitude of late to justify every negative thing metted out to Nigerians, simply because of how they themselves dislike Nigeria/ns.

How about the Somalis and Zimbabweans who were killed? Was this "just desserts" too?

If next week, we hear of South African businesses being burned in Nigeria, which one of these people will be saying, after all they did it to us? None of them thats who.

My heart goes out to every individual who has either lost life, possession or family from this absolute tragedy.
The poor in South Africa have erupted into xenophobia and frustration simply because their own government has failed them. Foreigners (well at least the black ones) have been made scape goats.

SA earned the title of one of the most violent places in the world without help from immigrants, they are fooling themselves if they think the real issues don't lie with their own populace.

Well said Londoner, now we are getting people who are making sensible points on this forum and actuallly getting down to the bottom of the issue. More points please.

Ignorance is the worst disease known to man kind. Education is the key to emancipation.

Kobojunkie:
Keep working on trying to insult instead of following the debate that is going on on the thread. Whenever you come around growing up and realizing that the world does not only exist in your mind, you can maybe put aside your issues and join the actual debate then .

Where is the insulting language in my post. Opinions are not insults. Saying you lack feeling is not an insult. Its an opinion. No if I called you "facist pig". Thats an insult but I never said that.

I am sticking to the debate here or am I now talking about afghanistan?

Hmmmm if thats your best response then you ain't worth debating with. Oh and thats not an insult either if your feels get hurt.