₦airaland Forum

lucabrasi:
@huxley yes i have a supporter,couldnt even answer again as everyone was on my ass
@poster
kind of lame xcuse but im having my exams now so i can't dig up the book yet,i have a dvd series as well and will watch it and bring out the literary references as for the pastor's book,its not just based on the bible but backed up by literary sources as well,u know as well as i do that it wont stand up to any scruitny if a christian pastor used a christian bible as his only reference

Huxley is actually leaning towards the evolutionary aspect of man specific to pigmentation and not any biblical reference so he aint't really helping you out but strengthening my points.

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry but what do you even mean by the above?? If you want this to be an argument based on sentiments and feelings then do inform me so I can put on my "imagination" instead and we can all dump reality and walk on clouds together. History shows that countries make decisions based on situations to deport or not to deport. No record shows that deporting all ALWAYS harms the deportee in the end. Please put sentiments and emotions aside here.


Trying to boil all history down to one or two cases where there was problem of mass deportation is a ridiculous way to argue a point. This case is not same as the german-jew issue back in the 40's, so please stop trying to link two completely unrelated cases here. This debate is not about the importance of immigrants to a countries economy but what is actually happening in South Africa today with the huge influx of immigrants they have had to deal with and how the people are reacting to it. If you want a debate on immigration and it's advantages and disadvantages, start another thread and better still, make it about Nigeria.

It is precisely your lack of feeling that shapes your mindset. I am not suffering from any delusions of grandeur here. Why I stated  the obvious scenario of the outcome of your proposed solution to a countries immigration problem is precisely to paint how obnoxious it is to envision it without taking many factors into consideration.

The german- jew issue is ridiculous to you because you seem to see only see the obvious and not the implied. They are both related in many more ways than are unrelated.  if you understand that history does repeat itself in many forms you would understand the point I am trying to make here.

Your rational is that since the (poor) S. Africans (and I stress the POOR! because the people who are rioting and killing ain't living in no mansions )didn't ask for this problem they shouldn't have to deal with it and it is obviously zimbabwe's/Nigerian's problem to cater for its own people, Right. You agree with the "sentiments" and feelings of the S. African people and not the immigrants themselves, who really can't help the predicament they are in either right?. but sure let them go back to their country and tough it out and watch their children starve and die. Have you ever seen the face of a dying child and then tell the parents to go ahead and stick it out its okay if their child dies its for the the survival of the nation. Human survival is a basic instinct and the picture I am painting for you is for you to put yourself in someone elses shoes, but you argue on the side of the S. africans for their survival and not the zimbabweans.

There are several avenues to solve such problems and likewise minimizing the bad after effects of what ever action is taken to resolve the issue. What you propose has been tested time and time again.Which is why the Americans will not just round up 12 million illegals in this country and mass deport them even if that seems like the easiet road to take. Your point is if 10% of an entire population of zimbabweans are commiting crimes in S. Africa the best solution is to mass deport 100% of them or are you suggesting 90% of zimbabweans are commiting crimes in south africa, of course  you know thats not realistic cause that would mean over 2million of them are getting away with it,

obiguy:
[b][/b]I must say that i am very surprised at the the news broken to nigerians by THISDAY news paper. I am a nigerian student studying here in south africa, and yes there has been some riots by south africans on other foreign nationals in the townships (ghettos) and these are Zimbabweans and mozambiqueans, they are attacking zimbabweans most especially because of the flood of millions of zim people into sa illegally and you should also know that 80% of crimes committed in south african violently are done by zimbabweans and not to talk about the drug trade which are held in high stakes by our brothers here. Till now there hasn't been on case of a single nigerian either injured ir even killed in this whole mess and i read in THISDAY that people are brought down from buses and killed, this is just too much to say, I want to see where they got their sources from. Yes south africans have attitude problems with foreigners in their country in general, but this recent attack is targetted at zimbabweans and have not affected even ONE NIGERIAN!

Your stats are misleadin. You are listening to too much SABC . If 80% of crimes are commited by 10% of the entire zimbabwean population , that does not justify what you are seeing. Only barbarians would endulge in such acts as you see.

Kobojunkie:
So suddenly, we now agree there is a crisis in Nigeria?? But wait, is it the design that if there is a crisis in Nigeria, South Africans should be FORCED to deal with the immigrants?? Thanks for calling me a silly Nationalist, makes me glad you do not see me as someone who thinks as you do.

History has shown no such thing. Infact, mass deportation has actually helped so many societies over history, if you actually are not too biased to consider them all. In this case, mass deportation could actually be solution to the crime issue, which as I have pointed out on more than one occassion so far, has been a problem for over a decade now in south africa.

I am sorry but I do not buy the idea of a united africa when divided, we have not shown we can handle the little responsibility we are supposed to deal with.

Okay when you successfully deport everyone who is not like you and form a government in Nigeria that is self sustainable and can provide its people with everyting they need and then all our people from the diaspora come back and make Nigeria the greatest country in Africa thenyour government provides all the needs and wants  a human being can ever deisre and  cause him not to step outside of his shores for anything else then you will be satisfied at that point that Nigeria or any other African nations is ready to intergrate and unite Africa. It is obvious you lack the concept of economics and human history as far as migration and survical is concerned. The economic stability of a nation is related to its relationship with the nations around its vicinity.

Immigrants are a resource to a country if their abilities are tapped into properly. Mass illegal immigration to any country will over time becoming a compounding problem to any society.Simply deporting the lot of them is not a sensible answer.  Restricting and enforcing entry to any society by means of legislation is a civil means of curbing such crisis. What you are doing is demonizing and saying if 10% of a population or group of people is corrupt then we should eliminate the entire populous to solve the issue as related to crime. If you can lead me to the statistic where the overwhelming # of Nigerians or Zimbabweans are involved in criminal activity in south africa I will agree with you otherwise stop your rational. It doesn't make sense. All it is is Drastic and where any thing is done is such a manner leaves people sour and bitter and vengeful.

As far as history is concerned I'll take the mass deportation of the jews from europe. What did it solve, eh yeah Germany was left for the germans and they prospered but what effect did that cause. The creation of the Jewish state, ergo the palestinian problem ergo the middle east crisis ergo terrorism ergo bombings in the Americas and in europe ergo now these same governments and the western world including Germany will face a new set a problems. Oh yeah forgot they are rich now so that makes it okay. They have the money to spend .

Kobojunkie:
Here is your problem. You have already concluded that sending immigrants, especially illegal immigrants back to where they came from is EVIL. We did it and if we have to do it again, I will vote we do it again. What is happening today is frustrated people (mind you this issue did not prop up overnight, it has been in existence for about a decade now or more).  Bringing up examples from the past is to help us understand the frustration of the people and also help us realize that it is not just cut one way. Before this weekend, there has been growing tension between south africans and their african neighbours who happen to have taken solace in their country and happen to be contributors to the high crime rate in that country as well. What should they do?? When you say Africa Unite, is it that you have been able to accomplish that goal in your own shores and now feel you should take that to other shores?? We see clearly in this case that the South Africans are not all willing to Unite Africa and they are not really evil people for not wanting that either. The Jaguda justice we see today is a result of problems that have been developing for years. How do you fix it ?? By calling for South Africans to be more tolerant of foreigners?? why??



Please spend more time reading and less time posting responses to posts you do not even read. Where in my post did I justify the actions of these violent people??

How can I conclude that sending immigrants back to where they come from is Evil.  Thats not the point of what we are witnessing.

It is you who forget to see the the crisis going on in Zimbabwe and Nigeria which is forcing these immigrants into South Africa. What's the difference with refugees who are fleeing Darfur or who fled Liberia and Sierra leone. You are a silly nationalist who fails to see the big picture in the progression of African socities both in terms of economic well being and political stability.

History has shown and will always show that mass deportation(which is what you are suggesting) of any peoples is not the solution to this issue. The Americans know it the British know it and the South African should know it as well. What you are proposing and what you are witnessing violates the human and civil rights of any people in a just and civil society or do you lack that concept and think it is just some western "thing" that was created.

Though is understandable the pressure these immigrants are causing the poor in south Africa due to scramble for what resources are left, rioting ang killling should be absolutely codemn and shouldnot be tolerated.

The concept of Africa unite is something I will continue to champion, you can stay on the micro issues of the Nigerian society and not understant the that both concepts combined serve each others purpose but I guess you don't understand that fact which can be proven if you wish me to endulge you in historical accounts

To anyone who is bringing up "Ghana must go" Fiasco as some justification for what is happening in South Africa. It is ignorant people like yourself and the ones perpetrating those atrocities  in South Africa that should be wiped off the face of the earth if you don't want to enlighten yourself. You are a waste of space.

The objective of discussing this matter is to learn from past mistakes and make sure they do not repeat themselves in any form anywhere on the continent. Codemning what is going on in S.Africa is a necesscity not just bringing up old tales from yester years or are you telling us things just happen and we should fold our arms and not say or do anything. Nigerians are not the only affected communities in Africa.

Africa Unite.

My condolences to the brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers that are loosing their lives.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6Fy8e7RZow&feature=related

Please peopl let us not just talk and talk for nothing. Post chanels that can be reached to reflect our views on this matter internationally.

Talk Talk is cheap. DO SOMETHING!!!

Its a shame South Africa is spiralling into such a place. I know the media blows things out of porportion but there is an escalating problem of Xenophonbia that exists in South Africa, no doubt. The damage was done not only to Nigerians but other Africans as well, especially the zimbabweans

Pyschologically the S. Africans have been damaged. It is a bullying effect that came through Apartheid era. If you have been oppressed,demonized, terrorized and subjugated to inhumane treatment it is very likelly that when given the chance and the tables are turned you will do the same to people who are less fortunate in your society. If this continues I can no more blame the whites for anything that was inflicted on the native people if this is the attitude that will be continued in this beautiful nation.

My girlfriend is South African and feels really embarrased about what is going on in her country. I would be too if Nigerians ever behaved in such a manner. I mean 419 is one thing but Hatred for your own kind is worse. Much worse!

SHAME! SHAME ! SHAME. Something should be done concerning this. If anyone has any suggestions here is the place to do it. i strongly suggest we go to any and all south african forums and post our disdain for this behaviour. If you let them get away with it now it will continue just like apartheid did.

Its a shame South Africa is spiralling into such a place. I know the media blows things out of porportion but there is an escalating problem of Xenophonbia that exists in South Africa no doubt.

Pyschologically the S. Africans have been damaged. It is a bullying effect that came through Apartheid era. If you have been oppressed, terrorized and subjugated to inhumane treatment it is very likelly that when given the chance and the tables are turned you will do the same to people who are less fortunate in your society. If this continues I can no more blame the whites for anything that was inflicted on the native people if this is the attitude that will be continued in this beautiful nation.

My girlfriend is South African and feels really embarrased about what is going on in her country. I would be too if Nigerians ever behaved in sucha manner. I mean 419 is one thing but Hatred for your own kind is worse. Much worse!

SHAME! SHAME ! SHAME. This situation should not be allowed to pass lightly.

So can anyone share any light or discussion on the possible origins of the black skin using provable information. I need an indepth analysis on this subject matter specifically zoning in on african populations and the diversity that exists within it?

OW11

Exactly what I am tryin to get across to Lucabrasi ,that literal/historical evidence is hard to stand on when there is something else which can lead you more towards the accurate assessment. It can definitely help in trying to mapp out human populations but it is open to misinformation, misinterpretations and bias which we have seen countless times. Genetics however is difficult to dispute. Using Mitchondrial DNA or Y chormosone DNA, one can determine who his closet relatives are in terms of world populations.

Again Cush being the forefather of black people is flawed because Ham _Cush_ Nimrod and so on had to all be physically as black has we are today with all our features otherwise something else took place to cause our variety today(i.e interaction with our enviroment, diet, climate, mate selection patterns etc to come up with distinct features)

There has more than one occurence of someone who gave birth to a white and black baby and that can be explained logical using Historical, physical and anatomical information.Though the odds are high like one a million. it can be explained LOGICALLy .These types of births occur mostly where there is artificial insermintation where sperm and eggs are manipulated and either parent most carry a recessive gene introduced by an european somewhere down the line. It is highly ullikely for a yoruba girl who has lived in her village since birth and whose parents never left that part of the world and never introduced to any outsiders to have a white baby. It is not impossible but does not defy logic. Please see below link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412385&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

It is almost a certainty that for Cush to have spawn the black race. Genetical Ham who translates as "warm"(I really don't know how that denotes that his is black, which is the symbolism these knuckleheads use in determining his color) exhibited these genes in physical manifestation, passing it down on and on. I will not go into this indept but just know you are actually verifying the fact that it could be possible for Cush or his progeny not to have been black since you postulate that logic has nothing to do with interpretation seeing that Historical logic is used in Oshimolowo book though he or I wasnot present at time to verify anything.

Now I do not need to read through Oshimolowo's book to argue what so called fact he is presenting in his book as there are a million and one references out there who echo what he is saying, unless he introduced a new concept of the origins of black people. I mean just enter sons of Ham in wikipedia and you get a break down of references in his book.

What I am trying to get you to understand is that basing his truths on historical logic only are flawe if genetical logical eveidence supercedes his logic, whic it does of course. First I don't see what the reason is for the color of anybody to be black if not for adaptive purpose. A question you should ask your Pastor or yourself. Why didn't we come out green or blue for that matter. What is the reason for black? is what you have to ask yourself.

Adaptation is logical using all the evidence around you to explain an occurence as I mention earlier concerning mutation which again explains the story of the the lady who had twins of two different races and can be used to explain manymore since it is fact and not speculation. DNA distribution amongst Africans and variations of African people using the timeline of the Bible and historical evidence in trying to explain Human populationsfalls short of the evidence. Cush's timeline(Kingdom of Kush) till now (1973BC to 2006AD) is less that six thousand years. Too little time to create the variation of Africans and in terms of diversity in Langauge, phenotype(appearance) and genotype(DNA).

As far as refernces are concerned I am much of quoting specifics but google Y chromosone DNA in African populations for your evidence on genotype and African language groups and physical variations for your reference. The info is out there if you wish to search for it. Keep an open mind.



It been close to 1000 of recorded slavery in

By me stating that either Ham or his wife was black is me infering on the fact that for Cush to even spawn the negro race in anyway he or his wife had to carry the negro traits or genes i.e broad nose, black skin,, robust build, wooly hair for at least his kids to carry the same traits. So i didn't get the fact from any book , just simple logic.
When Pastor Oshimilowo preaches about how Cush ruled or had dominion in different parts of the world, all he is trying to do is give you a sense of pride about being black which you in the first place should be proud of cause thats who you are regardless, can't help that. The Pastor needs to be clear with his congregation that the story is false, false false and the people he is quoting in his book are merely trying to appease black folk. i am not saying agree with me but judge the facts for yourself. Its whetherr you see the correlation of climate and color or you believe some myth spun the race of a whole entire peoples who are so diverse, infact are more genetically diverse that other peoples of the world.

As for Banni comments I believe in the parts of the evolutionary theory that I can prove with fact. It is very likely that black skin mutation began before white mutation because of evidence supported by facts through DNA and gene distribution. People who dominate what is known as African have the most genetic variances that people in other parts of the world(Fact that has been proven). Deduction would be that therefore they came first because the theory of expansion can only happen where the most variances occur in a gene pool thus the "out of africa" migration theory. And when you say the first men were black please note they probably didn't look anything like you or me today.

Lucabrasi
I am not an atheist, I simply belief in proof and logic. When someone says evolution automatically peoples minds turn to monkeys walking upright and Darwin as I did once upon a time, dismissing it immediately as rubbish. The evolution of man is a theory based on theevidence of "evolution/Adaptation/Survival of the fittest" so lets leave out the monkey to human story.

Adaptation/"Physical Evolution" is a fact not a theory. You see it everyday around you. Example the sickle cell gene is prevelant in tropical peoples West African,middle eastern and asians and not Europeans. WHY?
Exposure to the malaria parasite for a long period of time will cause cells to mutate change its shape to adapt to the parasite's attack(FACT)
Over an extensive period of time that mutation is passed on to progeny and the adaptation is specific to a group of people for survival purposes(fact) even though there are side effects to this adaptation as we all know.

As for the issue of the story of Ham, Shem and Japhet, I will try to stay on the "facts" as much as possible.
According to Pastor Oshimolowo's book, he states the decscendants of Ham as he sees it in the bible, breaking them down to Miziriam, Cannan even down to Nimrod and Cush. He clearly states that Cush is likened to Ethiopia. Phut are libyans and mizirian are Egyptians. All carrying so called Negro tendencies therefore all were so called Negro people or lets say Black people. Therefore there were a consistent numer of "blacks" or people with black skin all over the mesopotamian area. The egyptians were therefore black/negroid, the cannanites were black/negroid and the Cush were also black/negroid. The curse is in reference to cannanites who according to the above are black and have nothing to do with Cush,Nimrod or Miziriam. Therefore no curse on the rest of other negro/Black people voiding the phrase "I am not cursed. I am Cush"

Now if ye are truly Cush then Biologically for Cush to be black/negroid, It means Ham their father or his wife must have been black/negroid. Common now, Biologically Noah can have three sons that are physically black/negroid, white/causcasian and yellow/middle easter. That does not make sense. Adaptation had to paly a role in their physical appearance. Can Pastor Oshimolowo explain if it is mere coincidence that people with darker skin inhabit hotter climates and lighter people cooler climates. How about the people of Papau new guinea who are from the same stock of original descendants of Ham and are negroid, How did they get to that part of the world seeing that Cush inhabits Africa and why did they choose that tropical area to live in cause they were black and noticed if they migrated to Russia would not be able to stand it there?

Also be aware that those who coin the phrase Cushites or Hamatic people whom Pastor Oshimolowo is taking refernce from don't even believe that Cushites are true African but some middle eastern tribe who migrated south and mixed with the negroids that existed in that area and thus that is how their skin tone became darker. Therefore if you take this euorcentric studyy literally negros are not descendants of Ham but are "people" who mixed with Cushites to deliver bastard black babies we call ethiopians and somalilans today. Which is why when you ask an Ethiopian if he is black he will hesistate for a minute and compare his features with his fellow middle eastern brothers first. How then can Cush be black in the first instance if the above is true.

If you sort reference to the above story please let me know.

Lucabrasi.
Where in my thread did I insult you. "nonsense" is not an insult. Its an opinion. I didn't come here to insult anyone.

I've skimmed through Oshimolowo's book, even seen his sermons on this issue. He is in error in several of his teachings but of course will not confront such errors cause he is a man of God.

My mission is to expose those who use scriptures to decieve people which is why I am harsh when I hear statements like yours. Explain what you mean and I will have a civil conversation with you. The first sign of intimidation and you run off.

Can someone brave enough Please explain how you can trace one of the sons of noah to the people who inhabit the African continent? Thats all I ask?

Please lucabrasi can you enumerate the facts you have concerning this story and tell me where in the bibile it traces the ancestors of these three people to who you know as black, white and yellow people or so the myth goes.

What nonsense I can't believe any one in this day and age still buys that story when common sense will tell you that your anthropology and body size correlates with the way your genes/mutation adapts to your enviroment.

What black mummified child?

You don't even need proof that Jesus is blonde blue eyed, cause that is very very! very! very! highly unlilkely judging from the period he lived.

oh yeah I just wanted to add if any one is a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, you better leave tha church fast. The monkeys believe black people are some sort of curseGod gave Cain which he passed on to his decsendants.

I mean if this people can perpetuite this rubbish. What else is false of christianity in the hands of Europeans that they ahve pssed on to Africa.

And please spare me the Ham, shem and Jahphet story in the bible. Anyone who believes that story is definitely delusional.

I am speaking on the basis of evolutionary evidence, climate and possibly what religion has got to say about it.

I for one have studied this and overwhelming evidence does point to climate and adaptation to ones enviroment and empirical evidience to why we have dark skin and our hair texture is as it is. How then do you have this stupid Nigerian preacher continually preach the story of Noah and his threee sons. I heard a preach somep sundays ago preaching this rubbish and how we are cursed and now that curse is about to be broken in the new milenia.

Any intelligent person would deduce that it is virtually impossible for three men to spun the multitude of races that exist in the world today and the timing of the bible cannot support this 5000 years is not enough time to create these variances.

Please your two cents on this I am hoping to disprove this bogus interpretation from the bible and enlighten some so called christians.

Omega,

You don tire for my friend. What of me wey dey hear tori everyday, non stop. Sometimes I think they have jazzed the guy.

I think the best thing to do now is counteract the situation by carrying the guy to more social occasions so he can jam better babe for this side or the other plan is to get in touch with my contacts for naija make them squeeze the girl well well see if she is for real or if she go break.

And I think I just the plan in mind hehehehehe. Stay tuned.

Okay update. My guy and im girl got into a little arguement and she told him not to call her anymore. He said okay thats fine and wished her well. I told him not to call her back that this is just fronting as I know naija girls are notorious for doing this.

I told him he has the upper hand in the relationship and should not breakdown and call her otherwise she will know he is weak. He stayed strong and the girl finally call am dey beg say she was just playing around with him.I just don't know what to make of this now.

I need suggestions on how to expose this girl to my friend as you know love is blind.

Any suggestions?

You are so right Omega. Infact My girl can't do shakara for me because I am a badass cook (Compliments of my mama. I thank her very well , otherwis e for be big gbese!). In fact it upsets her that I cook probably better that her.

Like I said no problem with trying to marry from back home vs here in the states. They are pros and cons.

Cons for naija girl in naija:
Money hungry.
Suspect
Devious
arrogant
fronting( unecessarily)
Gra gra to much for body
Want to come overseas
To much overly shakara

Pros for naija girl in Naija
Still a little submissive (which men though they try to say they are modern men really still like this aspect in women.
Can cook very well
Do not let their husband near kitchen
Give their man his time i.e allowing him to waka small without following him everywhere
Better body shape( the girls for this side don wowo as per too mcuh eating and not enough exercising Heheheh!

Anyways back to topic. I will continue to advise my guy about his girl oh. You know they say follow your instincts. You are usually right.

He spent sometime with her this past xmas and even met her father and brothers.

I just have a bad feeling about her. I have nothing against dating a girl back home in naija but na high risk venture.

Just yesterday my guy told me she said something like she had annulled a marriage with a guy in the us some years back. Thats what put up red flags for me. I dey enter naija well and see how a lot of girls are on dating sites trying to lure men to naija to marry them carry go.

Like I said I no go knock the hustle BUT@##)

Marijuana is linked to Mental illnesses especially in those who are prone to stress and biological in heritance.

Everyone should stay off this. Trust me I've seen first hand what this can do. Don't joke with your life.

A word is enough for the wise!

No responses, come on people. I need suggestions

Hey Guys, need some advice on how to help a friend.

My guy just came back from naija last year and told me he  finally met this girl he's been talking to for about 7months( He got hooked up by a friend in the US). She's quite pretty from the pics and he was quite excited at the prospect of marrying this chick. He pretty much tells me about their conversations and what they talk about and some of the stuff he tells me about her is getting me very suspicious. For example

She no get job for naija and complains she is broke all the time.
She used to go on dating sites on the web (confirmed by my guy)
She send him some provocative pics
She dey ask the guy some kind funny question , Like how mcuh does he make and does he want to invest in naija.
She's very impatient and wants to come to the US.

After coming to conclusion I feel the girl wants to use my guy head. ( I no wan spoil anyone runs but na my guy)

I smell a rat.

How do I approach this

SIENA,

When you say catalysts, are you speaking of the catalytic converters?

Thanks for the info, Please post the info you get from mercedes as soon as possible and I will look into this issue as well. I thought nigeria used "super" which is unleaded but i am guessing wrong then?

Siena,
I am not a guru on cars, but pretty much what I got from reading your emails are I will need to replace a couple of "things" in the car in order to maximize its performance when driving in lagos.

Please explailn " in lay mans terms" how this will apply specifically to a V8 engine on a mercedes and apart from the octane booster, what else can be done to save guard the life of the engine?

Shipping my ML430 mercedes to Naija.  It takes premium unleaded gas. How do I manage this issue when driving back home?

how much estimated do you think it will cost to clear it at the port

Can someone answer my question, please I need to know asap. Thank you

Can I ship my 2000 ML430 Benz to Naija or is it past the 8yr mark. If I can ship it. please give me an idea of fees for clearing at port and documents needed to clear at point.

Quick response will be appreciated. I want to be sure I can do this before sending the car by ship