₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
Sunday Adelaja Comes To Daddy Freeze's Rescue

My God could this be true

Daddy Freeze,

I stand with you. God is with you. The days of these charlatans are numbered.
God is your defender. He is very angry with this business men called pastors.

I hope you know they launder funds for politicians and earn commission. This is the real reason they are against CAMA.
They even buy jets, and register it as their own. While in actual sense, it belongs to either a sitting Governor or Politician who will mostly supposedly often lease and maintain it through donations to the church.

After leaving office, the pastor sells it back and the cash are safely stored away.
These elevates the pastors status and in between strategy grow the church faster.

So it's a racket of corruption compound of pastors and politicians who oppress the poor. Full of pride and hate.
This is not the gospel of Christ.

I love you Daddy Freeze.

When you need an Soldier, I will respond.
Copied. Source yesterday at 1:13

[img]https://s8/images/MuttleyHappyB.gif[/img]
"Ọrẹ dada to to bani sọrẹ, ni ele yi. O tun ni igboya lati tẹle ọrẹ ẹ, lọ si oju ogun. Eniyan bi awọn yi ni asọ wa, awọn eniyan gidi ni wọn"
Bottoms up. I doff my hat to you DSA.
Google translate, by the way, can be anyone's friend, too

petra1:
Christians have no right to insults ministers of God. Rogue or no rogue. Secondly how do you arrive calling ra minister rogue. Jesus was called rogue does that make him one?

Present the verses where Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, was called rogue please. Thank you.

petra1:
Why twisting words.

You want to play the semantic card hmm? OK, please show me the following:
1/ Where in the NT, saints are warned not to rebuke or insult rogue believers
2/ Where in the bible, is says dont rebuke or insult, specifically, using the word "pastors"What words were twisted? When and where were words twisted words?
Please dont try to escape from giving your answers to these two earlier asked questions, reproduced below:
If you want to play the semantic card, that's OK, but please just show me the following:
1/ Where in the NT, saints are warned not to rebuke or insult rogue believers
2/ Where in the bible, is says dont rebuke or insult, specifically, using the word "pastors"

petra1:
If foundation is wrong, doctrine will be wrong. Donkey only complained

Are you you trying to paint Apostle Peter a liar, hmm?

When Apostle Peter, in 2 Peter 2:16, wrote: "... he (i.e. Balaam) was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey..." are you trying to say Apostle Peter's foundation is wrong and/or his doctrine too is wrong, hmm? I will believe and take after Apostle Peter, any day, any time than ever your eisegesis, preconceived and inferior interpretation of the Balaam & donkey narrative.

petra1:
Thats for the white throne judgment. What has this got to do with insulting ministers.

If a minister is rogue its between him and God who called him

"Let them alone: they are blind leaders of the blind.
And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
- Matthew 15:14

If white throne judgment is the limit of how you understand 1 Corinthians 6:2 to be, then so be it, but you do agree and accept that rebuking, is about expressing sharp disapproval or criticism of someone because of their bad behaviour or behaving badly actions, hmm, don't you?

I reiterate that the bible has never been against rebuking rogue ministers, believers, saints or whatnots.

Benbellamor:
You keep quoting out of context

The verse you quoted is discipline Within the Church....An overseer has no authority to stand on the Alter and to utter gutter language
1 Corinthians 5:5'..was a response from Apostle Paul to the commitee of leaders who refused to punish a member that was fornicating with his fathers wife
Paul is telling the commitee to do the needful....internal dicipline....this can be found in the verse 1 and 2 of the same chapter 5 of 1 Corinthians

5
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken out...

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Verse 5 was highlighting the fact that if such fornicator is punished...his soul might be saved....which is a correction done with saving the soul of the sinner

This is different from 'Erroneously Cursing a.day someone WHO IS NOT A MEMBER of your church ...was born Again Decrarating the Alter

Well spotted. People find it easier to keep quoting out of context. It is a practice, otherwise known as "proof-texting"

vickydankal:
Lol you are funny,

You actually are funnier that I ever possibly funny can be

vickydankal:
Anyway, either you didn’t read what I wrote up there or you want to digress to another topic. What has covenant prosperity got to do with what I wrote up there.

I dont skim across post, but hey, you wouldn't know about cognitive incision now, and so cant comprehend how I cut to the chase to touch on covenant prosperity principle, vis-à-vis, "investment" on his sons, as taught by the hireling Oyedepo, sharing that it is a sham, and all na wash, nothing other than a glorified pyramid scheme

vickydankal:
Come to think of it, how did you arrive at 5-10% of the members being truly prosperous?

Come to think of it, you qualify for an award for perfecting the art of contextomy and incorrectly repeating the words I had typed.

Go back and re-read to see that what I correctly typed was:
"It is Oyedepo plc, that is prospering, and if we are not going to deceive ourselves, we would admit that not even up to 5-10% of Winners Chapel's congregation are really and truly prospering."

vickydankal:
I’m not a member of winners chapel, I have never paid my tithe there before but his principles has really brought me true prosperity accord 3 John 2

"Beloved, I pray you to prosper concerning all things and to be in good health, just as your soul prospers."
- 3 John 1:2

"You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

Without need to proof-text 3 John 1:2, like you've just above done, I put it to you that the only principle true, tried and tested principle that absolutely will bring anyone applying it, the 3 John 1:2's true, all-rounder and wholesomely true prosperity is found in 2 Corinthians 9:7 shown above

What hirelings, like Oyedepo, his investment sons & Co with other he is in cahoot with, dont want to correctively preach, is that the Bible teaches the "church" the revolutionary way of giving, that believers are instructed and/or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above, to do.

2 Corinthians 9:7, by the way and fyi, actually, is a rehashed principle God HAS always endorsed, as evident in Exodus 25:2, Exodus 35:29, Deuteronomy 15:10 & 1 Chronicles 29:9

vickydankal:
If you are a Christian and you are still poor, just be humble enough to know that there are things you don’t know as a result you are where you are.

It is wickedness to be poor in this kingdom, because kingdom increase and expansion is prosperity dependent. The church can’t have a voice or a say in the matters of the nation if government is sponsoring us, the problem of some top government officials against the church is just that we can do without the help of the government and can even do better in many things than the government so they feel threatened to clip our wings but glory to God the church of God will move on and no government shall prevail against it.

What a strong sense of déjà vu feeling permeating here. So Lucifer too, wore an air of haughty, stuck-up, pompous, egotistical, self-important, navel-gazing, swollen-headed, arrogant look of himself. Smh

vickydankal:
I know your problem is about tithe and offering. Don’t even go there, for some of us we don’t give it to get anything it’s just a Kingdom principle.

Pftt. You really have no idea. Smh.

Nigeria has become the poverty capital of the world and hence has the highest rate of extreme poverty globally.

vickydankal:
Yes bill gate and many other may not be paying tithe then how did they get their billions. If you have time read rev 18:6-19 and find out how men transact with the devil using the soul as the medium of exchange.

Remember the LORD, God, for it is He who gives the power to get wealth. Without God's authorisation, none of out of the many dread, dead and alive billionaires antichrists, paving the way for the Antichrist, would have the power to create, amass and get their billionare wealth. Satan couldn't, didnt have the power to do anything to Job, without getting clearance from God, even when he got it, there was a God imposed limit to what is permissible for him to do to Job

I'll give you an abridged roll call of the billionaire antichrists. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs RIP, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Ren Zhengfei, Ma Huateng, Jack Ma please stand up, and that's to name just a few elite ones. I know we are intelligent enough to spot the distinction and suss out the difference between Antichrist and antichrists, so I wont bother going into that, since you aren't that great into cognitive incision and even wouldn't understand if I were to delve in to that arena anyway.

vickydankal:
Big boy be humble enough to agree that you do not know everything and learn from fathers.

You got that right. Yep, I am a strapping big boy, with a very big God.

As for know everything. Nobody is an island of knowing. Nobody has a monopoly of knowledge. I learn from a Heavenly Father, who is omni-know-all more than whatever your puny, earthly and/or mortal fathers could ever know.

vickydankal:
Btw I’m female.

Congratulations. Nice to meet you, to meet you, nice.

petra1:
We are talking about christians rebuking or insulting Pastors.

You want to play the semantic card hmm? OK, please show me the following:
1/ Where in the NT, saints are warned not to rebuke or insult rogue believers
2/ Where in the bible, is says dont rebuke or insult, specifically, using the word "pastors"

petra1:
Jesus was a Prophet, Prophets have judgement in their mouth. "Hear ye him" He was functioning in his office. He is not anyone

"But he (i.e. Balaam) was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey
--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness"
- 2 Peter 2:16

When a prophet/prophetess has gone rogue, even a nondescript donkey will rebuke him/her, so to have his/her brain snap back to Holy Ghost enabled correct factory default settings

petra1:
Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand

Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by the saints, are the saints unworthy to judge any matter, even if mundane or smallest matters?

MuttleyLaff:
"Stop judging according to outward appearances;
rather judge according to righteous judgment."
- John 7:24

To be a righteous judgment judge, is not an exclusive right only to "a minister of God. Especially if he's prophetic" but extends to every believer, who incidentally and interestingly, in their own right, are bonafide ministers and royal priest(s)/priestess(es)

The bible does not forbid anyone insulting rogue ministers

petra1:
Show the verse where God commanded Christians to rebuke ministers I will show you verses where God says it is wrong

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward,
but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
- Matthew 23:27

"¹“Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast.
Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. Tell my people Israela of their sins!
²Yet they act so pious! They come to the Temple every day and seem delighted to learn all about me.
They act like a righteous nation that would never abandon the laws of its God.
They ask me to take action on their behalf, pretending they want to be near me."
- Isaiah 58:1-2

petra1, I already gave a sample with the above John 7:24 verse nah. Anyway, fill your boots with Isaiah 58:1-2, and be mindful of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ' in Matthew 23:27 above, tongue lashing and raining insults on scribes, Pharisees (i.e. Far-To-See) teachers and religious leaders, who were much older and senior to Him, so nothing new under the sun here, in dishing out insults

Do you agree and accept that rebuking, is about expressing sharp disapproval or criticism of someone because of their bad behaviour or behaving badly actions, hmm?

This bible has never been against rebuking rogue ministers, believers, saints or whatnots.

MiddleDimension:
that is to you as a christian, you saw him as a priest; but to the wider world at his time, and even today, since majority of people in this world are not christians. roughly about 3billion people on earth call themselves christians while over 4billion do not see themselves as christians. To those people during the time of Jesus and even now, Jesus was the son of the carpenter, had brothers and sisters and his mother was a lowly handmaid. Matthew 13:55-57
so the guy's point stands.

MuttleyLaff:
I cant ever, get tired of typing, that, there'd be less christians, if only more christians, properly & correctly read their bibles.

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ Himself, is I AM. Every human being whether saints, christians, muslims, atheist, heathens, other set of people group see Him according to the level of revelation they have received or not received

MiddleDimension:
except the stones are not atheist, whom you say is so precious and greater than millions of stones and sparrows, your jesus died for.

As an atheist lays his/her bed, so he/she lies in it

Bobby4090:
Oh, you're now trying to deny the fact that it was Oyedepo that Freeze was abusing. Which means it wasn't God that sent him. If you're doing what you feel is right and justified you won't come tomorrow and say it wasn't Oyedepo you were referring to... Or ask if you mentioned his name. You'll stand as bold as a lion and give your message or info. People like you and Freeze are hypocrites. Say something today, deny it tomorrow. But the curse has already gone out to him, including to you who saw red and say its yellow. Shame on you both.

You see the difference between the blind guides leading unsuspecting and easily influenced throng of blinds, is the wisdom and good judgment of Freeze not to, out and out mention any name that could be used to indict him with

People like hirelings David Oyedepo, David Ibiyeomie, Dr Paul Eneche, Poju Oyemade & Co actually straight up mentioned Freeze's name in their moment of reckless abandon, without caring or regarding the consequences of their actions of actually, directly, audibly mentioning Freeze's name in terms of intent to kill him, threatened him with futile curses and rained DOA damnations on him.

I can see you really are a bonafide and kofam L-plated learner. I also can see that you're an everyday is a Bible 101 schooling day person.

Bobby4090, here your first free Bible 101 lesson and fyi, there is something called the "boomerang repercussion" effect. Now, listen and learn this real good, which is that, you never wish for someone what you wouldn't wish yourself, and that is because of this same thing known as the "boomerang repercussion" effect. Have you ever heard of the biblical prophet called Balaam. Go look it up and read the narrative about him circa Numbers 23:8, to know about questions like: How can one curse, whom God has not cursed? Or, how shall one defy, whom the God has not defied, hmm?

Bobby4090, normally, I would have replied that, whatever you initiate, so shall it boomerang back to you, Bobby4090, the sender, but I bit my tongue and held back my hand, refrained from speaking, typing or acting that way. You are blessed man, but , all over again, re-learn

MiddleDimension:
@solostar1 feels i have spoken like Christ himself.

Nondescript stones can be raised up to speak, cry out and/or shout like Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ Himself (i.e. Luke 19:40)

solostar1:
You have spoken like a true follower of Christ.
God bless you.

MiddleDimension:
yet, i am an atheist.

"So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters?
God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish."
- 1 Corinthians 1:20

solostar1:
Fine

But it took a non priest like Jesus in his time to expose the lies and the deceit of the high priests.

"Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession."
- Hebrews 4:14

Goldencheese:
Haba, fear God na. At least if you don't like these people, just fear God. He once called Oyedepo bald chicken or something among other numerous insults. He insults Adeboye as if they were mates. Even if he disagrees with them, should he begin to insult people the age of his father? Make una fear God o. I don finish my talk.

When, where, and how did Freeze, out and out mention Oyedepo's name, to call him bald chicken? If you have evidence of this, then kindly produce the audio or black and print proof of Freeze doing this.

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, rained insults on scribes, Pharisees (i.e. Far-To-See) teachers and religious leaders much older and senior to Him, so nothing new under the sun here, in dishing out insults

MuttleyLaff:
Please paste here, where, when and how Freeze, out and out, mentioned in audio or in black and white print Oyedepo's name, in regards to being a bald headed fowl.

God, at appropriate times insulted religious leaders. I reiterate, the scribes, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees in Matthew 23:27 above, were all older and senior to Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, yet He didnt mince words with them. He never called a spade, a hoe, but He consistently called a spade, a spade.

The god that you worship, is the god of the hirelings' bellies and the god of Mammon

MuttleyLaff:
... Please paste here, when Freeze said: " ... let me shriek, like he shrieks. I am talking about the bald headed fowl ..." where, when and how Freeze, out and out mentioned Oyedepo's name.
Do you know what a shriek is?
Are you familiar with how bald headed fowls shriek?

MuttleyLaff:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward,
but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
- Matthew 23:27

"¹“Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast.
Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. Tell my people Israela of their sins!
²Yet they act so pious! They come to the Temple every day and seem delighted to learn all about me.
They act like a righteous nation that would never abandon the laws of its God.
They ask me to take action on their behalf, pretending they want to be near me."
- Isaiah 58:1-2

The scribes, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees in Matthew 23:27 above, were all older and senior to Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, yet He didnt mince words with them. He never called a spade, a hoe, but He consistently called a spade, a spade

OK, since you asked about what the readership think, then, I am thinking that why not, please paste here, where, when and how, on that Instagram post, Freeze, out and out, mentioned Oyedepo's name.

I also, am thinking that do you know what a shriek is?
Are you familiar with how bald headed fowls shriek?
Are you familiar with above Isaiah 58:1-2, concerning the necessity to cry out aloud, sparing not, lift up voice like a horn and declare unto God's people their transgression. Confront them with their sin(s)!?
Is Oyedepo absolved of insulting others or even slapping a defenceless young girl, hmm?

Tbh with you, I find it unforgivable cringeworthy when Oyedepo interjects the air with his occasional high, grating, shrill, irritating screams. They are off-putting and distracts from following the message and point he is trying to make or put across

Disclaimer:
Absolutely no forum rule "#11. Don't create distracting posts with: ALL WORDS BOLD / huge font sizes / ALL CAPS / distracting imagesspaces, etc" sic was harmed or flouted before, after and during the creation of this post, so please, pro-Oyedepo & overzealous "the powers that be" dont hide my post or ban me.

---

---

---

Benbellamor:
can you cite where he insult Oyedepo directly I don't think you can find one.
Is Oyedepo greater than Jesus
Is pastor ibieyormie greater than Jesus command?

petra1:
1 Timothy 5:22
. . .neither be partaker of other men's sins . . ..

He lied that he didn't insult oyedepo but he did he called him bastard

h t tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLKktEVG9NY

Benbellamor:
I'm disappointed in you..No mention of Oyedepo name here at All....this can't be admissible evidence in court....a bald head here has no.name...Anonymous

Can you compare it with the video where Ibieyormie directly mentioned "Daddy freeze'.....live and direct

That's what we call sound evidence of.proof..no mention of anybody's name here...

[img]https://s6/images/orijinbitters.jpg[/img]
Word. Gbam. No, out and out, indicting Oyedepo name, ever was mentioned by Freeze.

Somebody please pass this my guy, Benbellamor, this chilled bottle of orijin. Plus send him a truckload of kolanuts as well and after that, consider him sharp sharp, next governor in waiting of his state of origin.

Right on point on all accounts. Wehdone Sir! Please drink responsibly though.

vickydankal:
If freeze and his sheeple of a people has understanding of spiritual authority and the level of Sacrifice it takes to be where our fathers are and the Burden to maintain relevance, he will think twice before clouting about them.

I don’t mind people insulting me but do so to my husband, father or spiritual father (He doesn’t have to be my pastor) the lioness in me will awake.

You don’t know the investment of Dr David Oyedepo over his sons. I know some people won’t mind fighting freeze physically if they are direct sons of the prophet.

Bishop Oyedepo is too busy to notice him, knowing that freeze strive by criticizing our fathers. Devil has really use him to make our youth to challenge elders, pastors and fathers of faith: all through scripture a child never correct a father and in the matters of the kingdom freeze is still a child who has public fan base to massage his pride, arrogance and ignorance.

[img]https://s5/images/200w0a3838161c4c474a.gif[/img]
There is nothing like covenant prosperity principles, as taught by the hireling Oyedepo. It is a sham, all na wash.

Please, tell me what director of any company or CEO of any Nigerian Stock Exchange (NSE) listed companies, has hireling Oyedepo ever being, hmm?

My guy, abeggy, no one is shifting any goal post anywhere, the truth be told, the hireling Oyedepo is prospering on the back of the sweat, tears, blood and guts of suckers, dangling a carrot, tied to a stick, and stretched out in from of them, lol.

It is Oyedepo plc, that is prospering, and if we are not going to deceive ourselves, we would admit that not even up to 5-10% of Winners Chapel's congregation are really and truly prospering.

That percentage is me, just being, kind and generous

Bobby4090:
Which God will be for a young man who publicly calls a Pastor Bald headed fowl. If you can't respect his anointing can't you at least respect his age. Which God will tolerates people that insult their elders and pastors? Maybe it's the god you worship that does. Not the God I worship.

Please paste here, where, when and how Freeze, out and out, mentioned in audio or in black and white print Oyedepo's name, in regards to being a bald headed fowl.

God, at appropriate times insulted religious leaders. I reiterate, the scribes, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees in Matthew 23:27 above, were all older and senior to Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, yet He didnt mince words with them. He never called a spade, a hoe, but He consistently called a spade, a spade.

The god that you worship, is the god of the hirelings' bellies and the god of Mammon

[img]https://s8/images/dude213ad65498e734f91.gif[/img]

MyVILLAGEpeople:
Freeze should watch his back. It's obvious these Men of God won't tolerate him anymore.

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-when-you-fight-corruption-it-fights-back-nuhu-ribadu-86-59-19.jpg

What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for Freeze, who can be against Freeze? (i.e. Romans 8:31)
People will come, crawling out of the woodwork, when you step on their sacred cow(s)
God has Freeze's back. Freeze has the backing of God. Freeze has God watching his back for him.

Greatest100:
Speaking out is right, In leadership silence is consent.

Why I agree in principle with Pastor Ibiyome and Pastor Paul Eneche.

To openly mock someone much older than you and also a person who is in authority should be roundly condemned. The principle of publicly speaking out against such behavior is right for if left unanswered in the public square, it will become the culture and many who are young and impressionable people will follow suit.

In leadership, silence is consent. What you see today in a corner that seems insignificant if you do not address it will one day takeover the entire fabric of society.

There are institutions God has put in place to keep society in order. Those offices must be respected even if you disagree with them. You may disagree doctrinal wise with leaders and you may in some cases voice out your opinion but to use mockery and insults as a weapon is wrong and must be condemned.

God in delivering the children of Israel told Moses they could not leave Egypt without the authorization of Pharaoh. God could have used his power to cause a deep sleep to come on the Egyptians and led the children of Israel out.

Why did he choose the method of Moses going to Pharaoh to tell him "let my people go" God pressed Pharaoh to authorize it because God who created Pharaoh had respect to his authority.

Angel Michael in contending against lucipher still recognized ranking and did not rebuke him but said the Lord rebuke you.

Jude 8-9
“8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

To publicly speak in an insulting manner against men in authority is not a Christian virtue. This has nothing to do with any generation, it is simply wrong.

This doesn't mean you may not disagree with positions but to speak evil of dignities, using tactics of mockery must be roundly condemned or else in 10years time children who have disagreements with their parents at home will come on social media to insult them.

The public denunciation of disrespectful behavior in principle is the correct thing to do and this not for personal reasons but for the preservation of order in society.

When Vasthi rebelled against the King her husband this wasn't the first time she was probably doing it but now she did it in public and the wise men "forced" the king to put her away or else every woman regardless of her background will begin to rebel in their homes against their husbands and by that singular act the whole family system in that nation will be threatened and destroyed.

Esther 1:16-17
“16 And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.
17 For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.”

This is why speaking in the open is sometimes necessary to kill the spirit before it spreads and destroys the fabric of society.

My advice to young ministers is, if you disagree with the direction the Church is going then raise new ministries that will emphasize what you believe to be right, build up people around the truth revealed to you and let the work grow until the brightness of your revelation is seen through the lives of the people you have raised.

To think you can insult your way to destiny is futile.

"Stop judging according to outward appearances;
rather judge according to righteous judgment."
- John 7:24

To be a righteous judgment judge, is not an exclusive right only to "a minister of God. Especially if he's prophetic" but extends to every believer, who incidentally and interestingly, in their own right, are bonafide ministers and royal priest(s)/priestess(es)

The bible does not forbid anyone insulting rogue ministers

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward,
but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
- Matthew 23:27

"¹“Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast.
Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. Tell my people Israela of their sins!
²Yet they act so pious! They come to the Temple every day and seem delighted to learn all about me.
They act like a righteous nation that would never abandon the laws of its God.
They ask me to take action on their behalf, pretending they want to be near me."
- Isaiah 58:1-2

The scribes, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees in Matthew 23:27 above, were all older and senior to Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, yet He didnt mince words with them. He never called a spade, a hoe, but He consistently called a spade, a spade.

I am sure hirelings David Ibiyeomie, Dr Paul Eneche, Poju Oyemade & Co, are familiar with above Isaiah 58:1-2, concerning the necessity to cry out aloud, sparing not, lift up voice like a horn and declare unto God's people their transgression. Confront them with their sin(s)!
Is hireling Oyedepo absolved of insulting others ni or even innocent of publicly slapping a defenceless young girl, hmm?

"He who comes into equity must come with clean hands." Hireling Oyedepo, on numerous record times, is well known to have rained insults, DOA damnations and futile curses on constituted authority, if not constituted authorities.

lalasticlala:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bftxf9kHkyT/

Personally, I think Daddy Freeze went too far by insulting Bishop Oyedepo. He could have passed his message without insults. He makes sense a times but the insult is unnecessary.

Nairalanders, what do you think?

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward,
but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
- Matthew 23:27

"¹“Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast.
Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. Tell my people Israela of their sins!
²Yet they act so pious! They come to the Temple every day and seem delighted to learn all about me.
They act like a righteous nation that would never abandon the laws of its God.
They ask me to take action on their behalf, pretending they want to be near me."
- Isaiah 58:1-2

The scribes, the teachers of religious law and Pharisees in Matthew 23:27 above, were all older and senior to Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, yet He didnt mince words with them. He never called a spade, a hoe, but He consistently called a spade, a spade

OK, since you asked about what the readership think, then, I am thinking that why not, please paste here, where, when and how, on that Instagram post, Freeze, out and out, mentioned Oyedepo's name.

I also, am thinking that do you know what a shriek is?
Are you familiar with how bald headed fowls shriek?
Are you familiar with above Isaiah 58:1-2, concerning the necessity to cry out aloud, sparing not, lift up voice like a horn and declare unto God's people their transgression. Confront them with their sin(s)!?
Is Oyedepo absolved of insulting others or even slapping a defenceless young girl, hmm?

Tbh with you, I find it unforgivable cringeworthy when Oyedepo interjects the air with his occasional high, grating, shrill, irritating screams. They are off-putting and distracts from following the message and point he is trying to make or put across

Disclaimer:
Absolutely no forum rule "#11. Don't create distracting posts with: ALL WORDS BOLD / huge font sizes / ALL CAPS / distracting imagesspaces, etc" sic was harmed or flouted before, after and during the creation of this post, so please, pro-Oyedepo & overzealous "the powers that be" dont hide my post or ban me.

petra1:
The bible forbid any Christians to insult ministers.

A minister of God can do judgement. Especially if he's prophetic

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

"Stop judging according to outward appearances;
rather judge according to righteous judgment."
- John 7:24

To be a righteous judgment judge, is not an exclusive right only to "a minister of God. Especially if he's prophetic" but extends to every believer, who incidentally and interestingly, in their own right, are bonafide ministers and royal priest(s)/priestess(es)

The bible does not forbid anyone insulting rogue ministers

MiddleDimension:
He attacked El Rufai and called him a "demon agent" for what he sees as irresponsibility on the part of the governor to protect lives.
Now, he cannot take it when Daddy Freeze comes for his likes. I believe the bible and the African culture told you to be subject to authority. When he insults others older than him and those in authority, he doesn't remember the bible and African culture at the time. It appears those who attack others cannot stomach the same food they dish out to others.
h t tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzx-V1PCccs

... but the man got it right with this one about the cunning cunning short man archetype of the devil nah

Deborah98:
Yes we have to respect those in authority but that shouldn't make us dumb not to talk when things go bad....

[img]https://s6/images/orijinbitters.jpg[/img]
Word. Gbam.

Somebody please pass this my sister, Deborah98, this chilled bottle of orijin. Plus send her a truckload of kolanuts as well and after that, consider her sharp sharp, next governor in waiting of her state of origin.

Right on point on all accounts. Wehdone Ma'am! Please drink responsibly though.

CodeTemplar:
If you have observed over the past one year, I have stopped replying your daft mentions. I will like you to reciprocate same to me and in addition, stop spamming. The truth is once I see it is you, I don't read it and skip it. So take notice and allow peace reign.

"There is no peace, Saith the LORD concerning the wicked (i.e. twisted)"
- Isaiah 48:22

Whenever I submit a counter post, the intention is never about extracting a reply or expecting a reply back. My posts, simply is about, if a crooked stick is before you, you need not explain how crooked it is. Lay a straight one down by the side of it, and the work is well done. Showcase the truth, leaving error standing embarrassed enough not be able to respond back

You have no clue what the word spamming means. The truth is, once I see it is you, I know to expect to read an unsound, misguided, biblical undereducated and misinformed comment

CodeTemplar:
Calling a man who didnt create himself "bald headed fowl" is not disagreement to doctrine.

Please paste here, when Freeze said: " ... let me shriek, like he shrieks. I am talking about the bald headed fowl ..." where, when and how Freeze, out and out mentioned Oyedepo's name.
Do you know what a shriek is?
Are you familiar with how bald headed fowls shriek?

CodeTemplar:
Freeze lives with a divorcee and I wonder what happened to his moral standard when he choose his current partner. For attempting to go against the scripture in his bid to oppose those he love to, he deserves what he is getting.

"¹When Jesus realized that the Pharisees (i.e. the Far-To-See Penterascals clique) were aware He was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John
²(although it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples),
³He left Judea and returned to Galilee.
⁴Now He had to pass through Samaria.
⁵So He came to a town of Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph.
⁶Since Jacob’s well was there, Jesus, weary from His journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour.
⁷ When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.
⁸( His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
⁹“You are a Jew, said the woman. “How can You ask for a drink from me, a Samaritan woman? (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)
¹⁰Jesus answered, “If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.
¹¹“Sir, the woman replied, “You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where then will You get this living water?
¹²Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock?
¹³Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again.
¹⁴But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.
¹⁵The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water so that I will not get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.
¹⁶Jesus told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.
¹⁷“I have no husband, the woman replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband.
¹⁸In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spoken truthfully."
- John 4:1-18

Do you notice the John 4:1-18 above interaction between Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ and the Samaritan woman (i.e. one of the back then lost sheep of Israel), hmm?
Do you particularly notice that, in no way or time, did Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, dwell on the truth and fact that the woman falls in and out of relationships, hmm? Do you notice that Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, did not wield "thou are a serial divorcee" stick and beat her black and blue with it, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s5/images/200w0a3838161c4c474a.gif[/img]
There is nothing like covenant prosperity principles, as taught by Oyedepo. It is a sham, all na wash.

Please Ranch\hoddas, tell me what director of any company or CEO of any Nigerian Stock Exchange (NSE) listed companies, has Oyedepo ever being, hmm?

My guy, abeggy, no one is shifting any goal post anywhere, the truth be told, Oyedepo is prospering on the back of the sweat, tears, blood and guts of suckers, dangling a carrot, tied to a stick, and stretched out in from of them, lol.

It is Oyedepo plc, that is prospering, and if we are not going to deceive ourselves Ranch\hoddas, we would admit that not even up to 5-10% of Winners Chapel's congregation are really and truly prospering.

That percentage is me, just being, kind and generous

---

---

---

CaveAdullam:
Hahahahahahahhaha.

Daddy freeze pepper dem gang.

Emotional outburst was all I watched there!!!

CodeTemplar:
Emotional outburst of a mature Christian. Even Christ went into an emotional rage when He drove traders out of the temples. That's superior to an outburst that involves words.

Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ "went into an emotional rage when He drove traders out of the temples" (i.e. went into a holy anger) solely because His Father's house was turned into a den of thieves, using the outer court of the temple to offer astonishing ranges of merchandise and exploiting unsuspecting sheep and sheeple.

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

MrBrownJay1:
WOMEN WOMEN WOMEN.... How many times have I called you?!?!?! A man beats you like animal and tells you he will kill you, and you still Jejely go back home alone to this demon?!?!?!

She didnt go back home to the jerk, boko and loser of a male because he isn't a man. The charlatan went to her credit union work place, laid ambush, waited for her to turn up for the day's work, then cowardly stuffed life out of a defenceless, harmless and unsuspecting beautiful woman

She went back home to pick up a certain important document, with her burly brother as back up and another relative/friend recording the visit to when she went to pick up the document(s)

Fuckingmallam45:
These are the harsh realities of life

You will be alone most of the time. Not lonely, but alone. Try to understand the difference to avoid unnecessary suffering.

Happiness will not come easily as it came when you were young. You would have to work towards it. Discipline and sacrifice would be your best bet. Don't get caught in the YOLO gimmick.

Life will get boring. Your mind will wander. Learn to control it before it starts controlling you.
Your best friend might no longer be your best friend. Your ex would have already moved on. You will struggle. But it will imbue you with lots of wisdom. So don't curse yourself.

You'll realise in retrospect that very few people really loved you whilst others just wanted something out of you.

Memories are not always good. More than often, they induce unncecesary fear, anxiety and mood swings.

Time starts becoming the most valuable commodity. It will treat you like shit if you treat it cheaply.

Whether you like it or not, people will talk behind you. Sometimes it would be the people whom you trusted the most. Learn to ignore them.

You'll run down the guilt-valley more often than before. You will do things which you know is not good for you but will anyways end up doing it. You will invariably be distracted by foul things. This is your mind conquering your weak spot. Like I said, discipline can save you.

You'll realize that success is not that easy after all. It's that difficult. You would be tempted to give up on your dreams and live an average life. Don't.

Things will go wrong. Personally and professionally. The unexpected will happen. There won't be any reason/person to blame on. Your faith in humanity will plummet all of a sudden. But hey, don't give up. Move on.

You will soon start noticing your parents are getting old, your best friend is suffering from illness or money constrait. You realize how much time you've wasted playing the ego game. So don't wait. Make that phone call now.

Most of the times, you'll experience fear for no reason. When things are going good, you'll dread on ‘what if this happiness goes away?’. When things are not going good, you'll still dread on what's going to happen next.

You'll get your heart broken multiple times. And you'll have to break a couple of hearts yourself. That's life. There no right and wrong here.

There are no good people/bad people. You'll have to come out of this cynical mind-set. There are only people who bring you pleasantness and unplesantness. Remember, people who bring unplesantness to you might bring pleasantness to someone else.

You'll realize that multi-tasking is not beneficial. You start focusing on one big goal/day rather than 10 small goals/day. You'll learn to differentiate between being productive and being busy.

You'll learn that not all emotions you experience are genuine. More than half of them are mere mind-games. Learn to distinguish to avoid bouts of depression.

You'll be forced to change your attitude towards failures because you'll have more failures than success. You will no longer react to events, but will eventually respond to it. Reacting will get you into more trouble. Responding will move you towards a solution.

You'll realise that you can't be friends with everyone. And you don't have to be. Accept this fact sooner than later.

You'll realise that earning respect is more difficult than earning money. And it's the respect that would eventually make you feel proud about yourself in life.

[img]https://s6/images/orijinbitters.jpg[/img]
Word. Gbam.

Somebody please pass this my guy, Fuckingmallam45, this chilled bottle of orijin. Plus send him a truckload of kolanuts as well and after that, consider him sharp sharp, next governor of his state of origin.

One of a timely, needful and meaningful, brutal honest truth, à la Naira Marley "Olè l'everybody. Ẹni ilẹ mọ bá, ṣhá ni bàráwò. Inside life. O ba ni, ko bajẹ. Mafọ. Ọmo iya mi, mo wa pẹlu eh. Mafọ. Stay happy and shey jẹjẹ. Mafọ. Ma lọ fọ bi Awo. Gbess ma fọ. Ma fọ. Ko di eh lọna jọ. Iwọ ma fọ. Mafọ" I have lately read. Right on point on all accounts. Wehdone Sir! Please drink responsibly though.

donnie:
First and foremost, MESSIAH came to save HIS PEOPLE YISOLELE (ISRAEL) from their sins. He didn't come for the whole world.

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

"For God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not die but have eternal life"
- John 3:16

The MESSIAH came to save HIS PEOPLE YISOLELE (ISRAEL) from their sins. He didn't come for the whole world, indeed. What a grandiose of delusion, big fat lie, confused and disturbed thoughts, world you live in. What is it in John 3:16 above, you have difficulties understanding?

donnie:
Not only does the blood cleanse; we His people (YISOLELE/ISRAEL) have access into the grace of YAH through the blood. We have forgiveness of sins. We who were rebellious have now become sons, able to uphold the laws, statues and commandments of our father YAH.

I am not your pastor mbok, go meet them to tell you lies. I'm sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"⁵Jesus sent these twelve out with the following instructions:
"Don't go among people who are not Jewish or into any Samaritan city.
(i.e. Jesus sent out these 12 after giving them instructions:
"Don't take the road leading to other nations, and don't enter any Samaritan town.)
⁶Instead, go to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel.
⁷As you go, spread this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'”"
- Matthew 10:5-7

''Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”
(i.e. And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel.""
- Matthew 15:24


Mbok, just already shift, you cant give what you dont have. There is nothing in that your empty big fat hollow vessel of yours, all it is capable of making and giving out are this your typical loud babel and noises

Fyi, the lost sheep of the house of Israel, aka the ten tribes from the Northern kingdom, with Samaria being its capital taken prisoners and sent into exiles, forced to inter marry and become mongrelised, twice, first by the Assyrians and second, by the Babylonians, who shipped the creme de la creme of the House of Israel, aka the Northern kingdom, to the Babylonian royal court. The interesting part is that Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, has already followed protocol and done due diligence of reaching out, first to lost sheep. This He personally did Himself, as explained to the Samaritan woman in Matthew 15:24 and also when at Matthew 10:5-7, He specifically sent His inner caucus, twelve disciples, only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel.

According to John 10:14, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ declared by saying: "I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Good Shepherd. I know Mine and am known by Mine." He then, in John 10:27, explained further with saying: "My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me", so my dear donnie, who hasn't done a 2 Timothy 2:15, but relied on his eisegesis and proof-texting with Matthew 1:21 and Matthew 15:24, it is/was only the lost sheep of the House of Isreal, who of course and obviously aren't resident within the kingdom of Judea, aka the Southern kingdom, where Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, had His 3¹/₂ years earthly ministry, are who the good news had to be preached/announced to. Please next time, do a 2 Timothy 2:15, and study to show yourself approved before God, so you could, without embarrassment, rightly divide the word of God

It is because you know f all, that's why you opted for the underachiever easy way out and wormed yourself away from answering those easy, direct, simple, innocent, harmless and straightforward three questions

donnie:
Judasim is an idolatrous religion just like ROME (Christianity) it's mother, Islam and the so-called African traditional religion.

Do you know what the Kabalah is? That's witchcraft.

Have you studied the Talmud? It's full of outright falsehood, man made doctines and Idolatory.

Like Christianity these false religions do not hold the scriptures as final authority. They hold paganism higher than the Creator's laws.

Its even easy to identify them all by their Satanic star. Satan created them all to turn our hearts away from YAH.

True. True all that

sonmvayina:
The star means "as above so below".. There is nothing sinister about it... The Torah is the main scripture in Judaism.. It is God's laws,

If you are so conversant with God's laws, you would have seen that he detests human sacrifice. Then why do you still promote the Christian ideology of Jesus being a sacrifice for sins..

My dear friend, the God DIY sacrifice of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ is the making of what protoevangelium, prophesied in Genesis 3:15 and fulfilled circa 4000 years later, is all about. Proper and correct theology, will let you know, this was a necessary, as it were, antidote, and so we have it, the first mention of the good news of salvation long before Christianity and its false religion ever saw the light of day

donnie:
I have heard that before from Egyptologists... Nothing new. It comes from Paganism. Who is above? Is it not the Most High. You think I don't know they say you are your own God. And there is no savior coming from anywhere. Like in the days of the tower of Babel you have in your pride risen against the Most High.

The law of YAH requires sacrifice for sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. And the wages/payment for sin is death. And if it were not the blood of the righteous son of Adam, we will still have to be sacrificing bulls and goats for the remission of sins. That is the law that has been done away with it by MESSIAH'S sacrifice according to the scriptures. Others remain intact. YAH asked Abraham to give his son and according to the scriptures, even though YAH stopped him, it was counted as though he gave his son and received him back again. Are you saying Abraham is a bigger giver than ELOHIYM? You cannot outgive YAH.

If your trying to get me into Idolatory you must be dreaming. Because I cast our unclean spirits from people who dabble into such foolishness

Please explain in layman's terms such that someone in a Montessori school would easily understand you, the following:

1/ Why it was necessary for the shedding of blood, I mean the blood of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ. Break it down to the possibly barest minimum, what was the blood of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ able to do, that the sacrificing of bulls and goats' blood couldn't do. All the sacrificing bulls and goats' blood did was to put plaster over sin and doing partial remission of sins, that lapses after a year or so.
2/ Why and how is the blood of Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ that effective?
3/ What's the reason why it has/had to be God, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ and not any other being?

VBCampaign:
9/11 and Islam Coming Of Age

By: Deji Yesufu

The story of the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City in the year 2001 is an event that has redefined the history of the world. We speak today of the pre and post 9/11 days; just as we had pre and post World War I and II days. Interestingly a child that was born in 2001 will be 19 years old now. Just as such a child may be said to be coming of age, I believe that 9/11 redefined Islam as we know it today and brought it to maturity. In other words, you may say that Islam came of age after 9/11. As the title of my essay indicates, this piece would be identifying factors that have brought Islam into a new light and why the world cannot easily push Islam to the backburners any more. Just as we once had the Communist/Capitalist tussle for relevance in the world in the 20th century, the new normal in our world today is how the world deals with the Islamic ideology. For those who were too young to remember September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City, USA, I would do a quick recap of those events – especially as I experienced them myself.

I was in my father’s house in Zaria, Kaduna State, Nigeria, on September 11, 2001. I was finishing up at Ahmadu Bello University. I knew that I could not avoid an extra semester at the department of Electrical Engineering, so I reserved three courses along with the Math course, whose pre-requisite I had failed in 100 level and which put me a class behind my own class, as far Math courses was concerned. Since there was very little academic work to do, I went to the campus from home – which was quite some distance off campus. I had had a long nap that afternoon and having very little to do that evening, I switched on the television. Our local television was reporting breaking news. It was strange because NTA Kaduna of those days nearly almost never carried breaking news. But they did this one and it was obvious something serious was happening in the United States of America. The second plane had rammed into the second of the twin towers by the time I got into the news. After watching the news for about an hour, I stood up and took a long stroll around our neighborhood. Throughout the walk, I had that strange feeling that our world was not going to be the same again after that event. I had read a little on how the first and second World Wars began and I was almost certain that if these events do not leads to wide scale wars around the world, some countries will certainly feel the after effect of these terrorist attacks. Suffice to say here that I was serving in Yola, Adamawa State, in October 2002, when George W. Bush led American troops into Iraq. This was quickly followed by the invasion of Afghanistan. Those events have also led to the rise of other insurgencies in the world, including ISIS and Boko Haram.

Muslims Reaction to 9/11

The reaction of the Muslim world to the 9/11 attacks was varied. To be fair to them, most Muslim around the world condemned those attacks on the World Trade Center. The phrase “Islam is a religion of peace” came into greater emphasis and those making those emphasis were Muslims who were making every effort to distance themselves from the insurgents who carried out those terrorist attacks. Other reactions to the September 11 attacks were a little different. Some Muslims began to pay attention to the criticisms that have been levied against Muslim, mostly by Christian apologists, that Islam was a violent religion. Other Muslims saw the point in these emphases and it led their renouncing the Islamic faith entirely. In fact in recent times the violence of ISIS and other terrorist groups has led many more Muslims to renounce their faith. One Somali woman said that she accidentally stumbled on the video of Islamic State agents beheading an American Christian man and I right there and there she renounced Islam. This lady went on to become a Christian. I should mention here though that majority of those who leave Islam, having witnessed violence in the religion, go on to become atheists. In spite of these reactions to the violence unleashed by terrorist groups in the name of Islam, most moderate Muslims maintain that Islam is a religion of peace and that both ISIS and Christian apologists are wrong in painting Islam as a violent religion.

Nabeel Qureshi, a Christian apologist, who was once a Muslim but who died of stomach cancer in 2017, said in an interview that Islam is susceptible to a wide range of sects or denominations within its fold because of the wide range of interpretation that Muslims around the world give to various verses of the Qur’an. There are verses in the Qur’an that teach peaceful co-existence between Muslims and other religions. There are also verses that teach the violent subjugation of other religions. Nabeel says that with the help of a large number of Hadiths, many of whom are trusted ones, any Muslim group can come to whatever conclusion they wish on how to practice their religion. So, ISIS and Boko Haram will take suras like Sura 9:5 and 9:29 as their central tenet and say that western civilization is haram and must be resisted with force of arms. While moderate Muslims will interpret those scriptures to teach the concept of a just war. These situations have however not left Islam vulnerable to various reactions to it around the world. To protect Muslim from attacks by those who may wish to react violently at Muslims due to the violence of terrorist groups, the word “Islamophobe” was coined. The word is used to protect moderate Muslims from harsh criticism; but it is also being used by some Muslim apologist to silence any criticism against Islam.

Christianity Coming of Age

It would interest Muslims to know that one of the blessings of civilization is the fact that everything in our world is being brought under scrutiny. There is no hiding for any ideology anymore; as many people are becoming specialists in digging into the hearts of different religion and bringing on them stringent criticism that is leaving these religion without a base. In the West, Christianity came under a similar situation and the result was bringing Christianity to maturity. In other words, Christianity came of age. Before the 18th century, there was almost no one that referred to himself as an atheist. However, with increase in learning, the Bible came under what is now known as higher criticism. The stories of creation, the flood, the exodus of the Jews and various other biblical anecdotes came under heavy criticism by scholars in European universities – the Germans leading the way in most of this study. The result was Christianity without cloths and many scholars and their students, who originally would have called themselves Christians, began to renounce the Christian faith. Thinkers and writers like Voltaire made anyone who called himself a Christian look stupid. The 19th century did not improve matters. In the middle of that great century, the book “Origin of Species” was written by Charles Darwin. Whatever was left of Christianity, after its attack by higher critics in German Universities, was stripped bare. Christians began to leave the faith in droves and those who remained, adopted the findings of Darwin and came up with what was called Liberal Theology. Christianity continued to suffer in the hands of Western Thinkers until Christian groups, like the fundamentalist, brought out statements of faith stating that in spite of recent developments in science, Christians still held to the inspiration, sufficiency, and veracity of the Bible. They were saying in essence that the Bible was true. These statements by the fundamentalists did not ease the mass exodus of individuals away from the Christian religion both in America and Europe. This is the reason why the West, rather than regarding itself as Christian nations today, would rather see themselves as secularists. When Christianity came of age in the West, most people renounced the faith and only those who had a true commitment to their religion remained. I believe that Islam is undergoing a similar thing – theirs however coming 300 hundred years after Christianity had encountered her first higher critics.

Holes in the Narrative

When Muslims and Christians debate, one of their points of debate remain the veracity of their individual revelations. It is an important point because religion stands and falls on the veracity of its revelation. Christians regard the Bible as God’s words and they follow God’s ways as stated in it. Muslims on their part hold the revelations of the Bible as true. They however teach that these revelations have been corrupted by the Jews and some early followers of Jesus. For this reason, God sent a new revelation through Muhammed and this revelation is written in the Qur’an. So, the point in Muslim and Christian debate centers on tracing the historical events through which each group gets their revelations. Christians agree that the original writings of the New Testament are non-existent today. This is because the early gospel writers wrote on papyri and other materials that could not withstand corrosion and time, and have since been destroyed. Fortunately, copies of copies have passed down through the centuries until we have the Bible as we do today. The problem, however, with copying manuscripts of scriptures is the matter of errors in the copies – as is expected in the transmission of any ancient manuscript. The result is the problem of textual variants in the copies of the Bible. Theologians hold that despite the presence of these variants, the central message of the Bible has remained unchanged.

The position that most Muslim apologists have held through the centuries, however, has been that the Qur’an, despite being an ancient manuscript, has been miraculously preserved by God from these errors and thus there are no variants of the Qur’an as far as the Qur’an is concerned. Muslims everywhere in the world, they teach, have only one Qur’an they read. This has been the narrative through the centuries and this has been a point that Muslim scholars have used to prove the veracity of the Qur’an over the Bible.

All of this changed when two months ago, a respected Muslim scholar who had studied in Cambridge, Imam Yasir Qadhi, was on the YouTube channel of a Muslim apologist called Mohammed Hijab. Their discussion had covered various topics in the Islamic religion and then Hijab put a question to Imam Qadhi regarding the issues of textual variants in the Qur’an. At first, Qadhi made it clear that he does not discuss those sensitive matters in public; instead he asked Hijab to join a lecture he was having on it soon. But Mohammed Hijab was not going to let the matter lie low. He continued to press Qadhi on the question and then finally Imam Qadhi made the now famous “holes in the narrative” comment. He said in essence that the usual narrative that there are no errors in the Qur’an was not true. He said that his studies at Cambridge had revealed to him that there were indeed mistakes in the various Qua’ranic manuscripts around the world – just like any other ancient manuscript in the world. He also held the position that these variants do not change the message of the Qur’an but it was not true that there were no textual variants of the Qur’an. “There are holes in the narrative” that were passed down to Muslim today, Qadhi said. While Qadhi’s statement is consistent with the position of most modern scholars on all ancient manuscripts, it questions the veracity of the statement that the Qur’an had been miraculously preserved through the centuries.

This revelation, made on YouTube, plunged the Muslim world into dis-array. Many of Mohammed Hijab’s fans began to send him private messages saying that they were losing faith in Islam, as the narrative passed to them by their teachers were not entirely correct. The backlash was so hard that Hijab removed the video from his YouTube channel but the harm had been done. Christian apologists around the world had copied the video and many of them were coming to whatever conclusions they wanted on the matter.

It is important to note here though that most Christian apologists knew of the various textual variants of the Qur’an. In fact a lady, Hatun Tash, who is Turkish by birth, but now a Christian, has been able to collate no less than 32 different Qur’ans that are used by Muslims around the world. The differences in these Qur’ans are not mere differences in words like we may have between the KJV and the NIV; but whole differences in statements that could even affect the Islamic theology as a whole. All of these events are bringing Islam to maturity and helping Muslims to decide on whether or not their religion is worth adhering to. As I have written earlier, Christianity has undergone its own scrutiny and the result is secular western nations. Islam is just about beginning its own.

Islam versus Christianity

As Muslims continue to grapple with modern thinkers, they also are coming to terms with Christians who have, since Mohammed’ days, been pointing at the veracity of the Islamic religion. As far as I am concerned the debate over the veracity of the Muslim and Christian revelations has reached a stalemate. Both religions are coming to terms with the fact that there are variants in their manuscripts; and along with these variants come possible errors that can alter the core messages of their faith. One thing that however distinguishes the two faiths, for me, is a recent discovery that I stumbled on while watching David Wood – a Christian apologist that teaches on Islam a lot. This distinction has something to do with the central persons in the two faiths. Christianity has Jesus Christ and Islam has Mohammed. The Bible and the Qur’an teach that Jesus lived as an upright man. He lived perfectly and righteously, such that even his enemies could not fault him.

Understandably, the Bible has no record of Mohammed since Mohammed as born about AD570. The Qur’an however does. Muslims hold to various Hadiths – some of which are trusted and others are not. Investigating the life of Mohammed even in the trusted Hadiths brings up a revelation on the central figure of the Qur’an that is actually not very wholesome. In fact some of the things that these Hadiths record Mohammed doing are actually unprintable. I need to say that when Christian apologists bring these actions of Mohammed before Muslims, there are usually two reactions: the first is that some Moslems leave the Islamic religion, while others just ignore the information. This was the turning point for Nabeel Qureshi too. Nabeel had spent two and a half years studying the Christian sources on Jesus and he came to the conclusion that Jesus indeed died and resurrected, obtaining eternal salvation for sinners. When he used the same criteria for Mohammed and the Qur’an, his faith fell apart.

While moderate Muslims will not carry guns and kill critics of their religion, they still manifest an aspect of violence: they shut off the dissemination of these information; some of them label those of us doing these investigations Islamophobes; other even go to the extent of calling us fundamentalists who are not any different from ISIS and Boko Haram. These actions, they fail to see, are simply suppressed violence; all aimed at keeping Islam under wraps and ensuring that the age-old narratives are kept going. Imam Yasir Qadhi has told us already that there are holes in these narratives and with Islam coming face to face with modern scholarship, more and more of these holes will be discovered.
Christianity came of age and survived the onslaught. Islam is coming of age; will it survive in the hearts of its adherents? Only time will tell.
Source: https://textandpublishing.com/1219-2/

Is Islam really or at all, coming of age? That will be the day! Well, maybe when pigs fly sha. When you hear MURIC speaks or make comments, you know, Islam coming of age, has a wait, a long time for this, to happen and/or come to pass.

9/11, took the fun out of, at a drop of the hat, readily wanting to go flying, sha. Now, its remove/take off your shoes, your belt, your keys, your laptop, your mobile phone, your wallet/purse/hand bag, other personal metal items, put all these items from your person, into trays provided by the airport security check team to pass through a x-ray machine. Then stand at the entrance of the metal detector, and go through when beckoned, by a member of the airport security check team. God help you, if the metal detector beeps, signifying that you will need to be patted down. What a drag and kill-joy. 9/11, seriously, just took out the ease and pleasure of flying, but hey anything to have safe flight sha.

OP, should have at least, made a mention of the infamous Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, aka "Underwear Bomber" or "Christmas Bomber",

donnie:
LMAO ...my pastor must preach it first before I accept, afterall he runs the healing school with signs and wonders.
Confusion in the camp of the wicked.

Will you keep kwayet der!

petra1:
Isaiah 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Contextually explain this verse in a manner of exegesis and/or hermeneutic speaking please. Thanks

BluntTheApostle:
Where in those verses were Christians even remotely required to tithe?

If you can read, you would realize that the verses were contrasting the covenant of work (which includes tithing) with the covenant of grace which the death of Christ ushered in. The covenant of work never perfected humanity. They were profitless, and so were done away with. If the covenant of work was profitable, Jesus Christ wouldn't have needed to die.

Now, tithing cannot save you because you are no longer under such a law. You are now saved only by grace.

When the Israelites were bound by the covenant of work (also known as the Sinai covenant), they were saved by works (or duties such as tithing, and the blood of bulls). The covenant had curses which transgressors suffered for not keeping the covenant.

But when Christ died, a new covenant was ushered in. The covenant of grace. You are no longer saved by works, but by grace. So, your salvation is not of your own doing (your works) but of grace (unmerited favor). No one can therefore boast that his salvation is due to his tithing.

You can't emotionally blackmail me by using Bible verses that you don't understand My spiritual journey did not start today.
You haven't.

Because I didn't see how Hebrews 7 supports tithing as a financial investment. It does not even remotely ask us to tithe.

Abraham did not even tithe to invest financially. He tithed to appreciate God's help in getting him victory at that war. And as wealthy as Abraham was, there are no records of him ever tithing until that very incident. And there were no records of him ever tithing after that. Moreover, Abraham did not tithe out of his properties.

I am not interested in the covenant of works as far as tithing is concerned.

ThothHermes:
Okay

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

---

---

---

MuttleyLaff:
Before answering the question, let's acknowledge and get a few things into perspective first
1/ Abram, before becoming Abraham, was a worshipper of idols, an idolater, in short.
2/ Child sacrificing to these idols was a common and prevailing practice then and Abram was accustomed to it
3/ Deuteronomy 12:30-31 was formalized 400 years plus after the historic Abraham's near-sacrifice of his son Isaac
4/ It is a well known historical and documentated fact that Abram tithed in line with the prevailing Mesopotamia custom to tithe
Artifacts shows and testifies to heathens practice of tithing. Like few other things, tithing was a status quo, same as child sacrifices and/or ritualistic killing of children with Abraham then.

MuttleyLaff:
Tithing originated from a Mesopotamia practice that prevailed pre and post the Abraham's living days. Abraham paid tithe after winning a fighting battle over four kings. The practice and onus was upon the victor of such or any battle/war to give a tenth of the spoils of war to a reputable priest cum ruler of his/her choice. Abraham decided that Melchizedek is his choice, so paid the tenth/tithe to him, received a blessing, and the rest of the story is now history.

Melchizedek was a ruler cum priest of the Most God, but didn't know God same way Abraham did or have the same kind of relationship Abraham had with God. This is evidenced on how Abraham corrected Melchizedek after he misaddressed God

---

---

---

MuttleyLaff:
Christians and believers can tithe if they so decided in their heart and are not coerced, being forced people to give, aren't getting threatened with fear of curses, calamity or misfortune if they don't give an imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving. As long as specified financial demands aren't forced on people, it isn't a prob. If people willing and on their own initiative give tithe, that's OK

Let's just go there. There really is no stipulated/specific percentage on giving, for believers. All God requires, is a cheerful giving, that you decide in your heart without being forced or coerced to give. As a matter of fact, it is any amount that you're comfortable with and be in accordance to the level of grace you've received, only that there is a caveat that whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously

The Greek original word, "die", used in Matthew 23:23, means, it is necessary, to tithe
and so when that necessity is over, that obligation, duty or responsibility to tithe, is no longer required or needed
It was under that or those then present circumstances, that people like al\BHAGDADI dont understand, that Jesus says to tithe, and not the thereafter

People like al\BHAGDADI and others, dont want to recognise that the only tithes used to be given to God were:
1) the Levitical tithe aka Mosaic Law tithe, which are given to God via the priest (e.g. Levite)
and
2) the Abraham type of tithe, given to God, via a priest cum king (e.g. Melchizedek)
- see #3 below

Other tithes in a secular world context (i.e. tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1) also given are:
1) At pagan temples to priest(s) (note al\BHAGDADI extra biblical references will be provided upon your request, same with #3 below)
2) Upon the king's demand's (note al\BHAGDADI bible references also will be provided upon your request)
3) To a local ruler cum priest of a god or God, worthy of the consideration, after taking up arms, go to fight and winning battle fight(s) or war slaughering enemies

Now this is breaking it further down for easier understanding for the likes of al\BHAGDADI and others
1) There is obligatory tithe imposed by the Mosaic law (i.e. the Levitical tithe also known as the Mosaic Law tithe)
2) There is obligatory tithe imposed by the christian gatherings law
(i.e. ecclesiastical tithe, where christian gatherings, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income)
3) There is obligatory tithe imposed by custom law (i.e. Abraham's tithing was done, due to the social setting of that time)
4) There is obligatory tithe imposed by monarchy law (i.e. tenth of seed and of vineyards, given to the king's officials and servants)

Now, there is another, which is voluntary tithe,
The nuance in this sort of tithe or tithing, is that it isn't imposed by the Mosaic law, not by christian gatherings law or by any custom law. For the attention of Horlufemi, this one, this so called "voluntary tithe" happens or occurs, when FREELY, one DECIDES to GIVE, a tenth of one's financial standing, as a form of contribution or donation toward's any Kingdom purposes, aid or means. In fact, the beauty and tithing subtle difference, is that, it is NOT obligatory or imposed

Bible writers and God use the terms, tenth and tithe interchangeably. So if I voluntarily give 10%, a tenth or 10 out 100 of my money contribution or donation toward's Kingdom purposes, aid or means, I technically have given a tithe. Considering that it is not a taxed, obligatory or imposition tithe, then I am free, to go ahead voluntarily giving it

All tithes or tithings, are a form of giving but NOT all giving are a tenth, tithe or tithing because the giving could be more or less than a tenth, tithe or tithing

The Bible's message today, is about a revolutionary way of giving, where believers are instructed or urged as in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above

Giving could be 50% today, as in 50% equals half of your money
Giving could be 10% next month, as in 10% equals a tithe, tenth, or 10 out 100 of your money
(i.e. voluntary tithe, voluntarily giving 10%)
Giving could be 100% following month, as in 100%, equals all of your money
Giving could be 0% following month after, as in 0%, equals zero goes out of your money
Could decide to give 1% month following after, as in 1%, equals 1 out 100 of your money
The giving cycle is not fixed, it might repeat or not repeat itself
How much you give, changes according to the amount or percentage, you willingly over the passage of time, decide to give

It is the freedom, to give whatever you're comfortable with cheerfully. This sort of giving regardless of the percentages is desirable but not obligatory. Without stipulating amounts to give, you're are being trusted to know, to do the 3 right things

You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

It is obligatory, taxed or imposed tithing that Christians cannot tithe

It is imposed tithing, it is dead with the law and believers are not obligated to perform any form of imposed tithing

What al\BHAGDADI and others he is in cahoot with dont want to correctively preach, is that the Bible teaches the "church" the revolutionary way of giving, where believers are instructed or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above, to do

2 Corinthians 9:7, by the way actually, is a rehashed principle God HAS always endorsed, as evident in Exodus 25:2, Exodus 35:29, Deuteronomy 15:10 & 1 Chronicles 29:9

al\BHAGDADI and anyone can go check out Exodus 25:2, Exodus 35:29, Deuteronomy 15:10 & 1 Chronicles 29:9 to find out that God is doing a full circle with this give as you determine in your heart without being under compulsion
cc Goshen\360, Okai\Corne, OK\cornel, open\mine, Anas\09

cc Ugo\Fly

Disclaimer: Absolutely no forum rule "#11. Don't create distracting posts with: ALL WORDS BOLD / huge font sizes / ALL CAPS / distracting imagesspaces, etc" sic was harmed or flouted before, after and during the creation of this post, so please, pro-Oyedepo & overzealous "the powers that be" dont ban me.