₦airaland Forum

banom:
@ Poster,
Are you sure you know the meaning of Religion ?

are u sure u know the meaning of christianity?

ur ignorance is astonishing.

jagunlabi:
You trying to make a simple thing overly complicated.Lol!

how simple?

olabowale:
@Noetic2: « #28 on: Yesterday at 11:07:21 PM » 
My question and your answer and both left intact for people to see how delutional humans can be.


My first question listed Jesus as a prophet, like other prophets. You didn't break into pieces, since you know that he was listed in the company of noble people. But Allah allows by your silence in the acceptance ofhis prophetic condition brought out the truth. Te believers read your statement and see the truth, separately from the mixture of the lies you are trying to overwhelm us with.

All of a sudden, now in the question immediately above, since I isolated Jesus, he miraculously becomes God the son! Which one is he; God or the son of God, since there is no man/male who is son and father all roll in one? No man mounts his mother while he is the son of the same mother. Or are you the husband of a woman in england, while you are also the son of the woman? I am only responding to your entry; John 10:30, literally. By the way, any verse of the Bible that opposes the posibility that Jesus is a god, will render the Bible corrupt, unsure, hence John 10:30, is unreliable.

If this is allah's way of establishing the "truth", then allah is ignorant and very unintelligent.

Jesus is GOD who lived with us, I have produced the relevant verses that established this.

Lets try the verse in Mark, which says that Jesus stated that him and his audience have the same single Lord God. How about all his prayers in the garden of Geshemane? How about his cry on the cross; My God, my God, ? I hope you don;t think he was talking about himself? Are you familiar with the yoruba statement :won ro wipe were ni (They think he is a madman)? Only people who are screwed up in the head talk to himself.

do u know what ur problem is? u think u can use words and linguistic semantics to prove/disprove a religious cause.
Thats impossible, where are the biblical verses that says Jesus is a prophet?
Is there anywhere He stated that He is NOT God? was not there from the very beginning? did not make the heavens and the earth? we should not pray in HIS name? that He will not return?

just produce a bible verse that establishes each of these questions. You are simply ignorant and the ONLY language u understand as a mohammedan is bullying and violence. you have written over 5000 words, without stating anything intelligent, meaningful or making either a biblical or quranic quotation that justifies any of ur misinformed postulations. You are simply ignorant and misguided.

why should I believe a dead man called mohammed?
why should I believe the words of a man who could sleep with a 9 year old girl?
why should I believe a so-called "prophet" who neither performed a miracle nor made a prophecy?
why should I believe in a man who preached hate and called for amputation, beheading and apostasy for non-subscribers?
why should I believe mohammed at all? his historical antecedents are very very criminal.

I have repeatedly showed u from ur koran (quran 2:87) where the holy spirit was acknowledged to have worked with Jesus. Jesus lived 600 years before mohammed. Yet u ignorantly claim that  mohammed is the holy spirit. u claim that there is no trinity. how then do u explain the presence of the holy spirit (being mentioned) in the koran?

I have also shown u the koranic verse where Jesus said "blessed is the day I was born, the day I will die and be ressurected" koran 19:33-34
And u ignorantly claim Jesus did not die. Are u educated at all?
can u read and understand simple english?

Did God take permission from him, before he started to create? Is there a direct verse in the Bible, the OT or NT that we can check? What you have put forward is blasphamous, to say the least.  If Jesus was the Creator, would there be a need for him to tell himself about his intent to create man? Creating "Through" gives us the indication that he was not the Creator, but at best and if the statement is true (not true), he was only a medium. For an entity to be the Creator and at the same time the entity through all things are made is very confusing.

Let me help you; GM makes automobiles. Through Steel/metals, etc GM makes automobiles. Which one is Jesus, Steel/metal or GM? He can't be he two at the same time.

whats the meaning of these? is this all u have to say?

Am not a christian and frankly I don't care for Christianity. But since we are discussing Christianity, if all you have to do, as it is what Jesus taught you is the Lord's prayer, how long does it take to say it, that you waste 1 hour or more in the church? Such a read that will take 2 minutes, tops, does not need 1 hour plus in the church to say. Or does it? Did Jesus teach you to sing and clap, too? OR you made that up just to make your saying the Lord's Prayer seem rich and worth while? If Jesus stated that its the Lord's prayer that is sufficient, I did not read his name in it. And how convenient that you ignore his injuction about the Laws and the prophets of Old!

Is your attention to Jesus commandment a selective one? Accepting some and rejecting others? I do not want to spend too much time on you, because it is my honest opinion that you may not be a person who reflects. Sorry. Thats my opinion.

You have failed to establish that Jesus was a muslim. since I believe that was the underlying claim behind ur previous post.

Is this the quality of lies that springs out of the mosques, from ur scholars?
I must confess, only an ignorant, uneducated, nincompoop-ish, beclouded and unintelligent person would subscribe to these.

olabowale, I am disappointed.

mantraa:
Altruism is about selflessness and, in my view, an equal regard for others regardless of race, sex, culture and religion.

how did u decide this was best for mankind?
who decided this? when? why?

what are the convictions of this "selflessness" and "equal regard"?

is this an sffiliation to atheism? naturalism? occultism? or satanism?

is this not a borrowed creed from other religions? are u not simply creating a new religion for ur self?

is this not a contradiction?

what hatred?

is it the muslim that cannot state why he/she is a muslim that is being hated.

if u know what "holy" jihad means, then u should know who is spreading HATE. I dont know when commenting on islamic norms became spread of hate.

you need serious help.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=279919.msg3995605#msg3995605 date=1244476989]Ikomi, Good Point!

There are several reasons why certain individuals in NL defend Jewish cause blindly. It has to do primarily with religion but there are also those in here who believe they are the lost tribes of Israel. For these two groups the word "Jew" is sacred. Telling them that Jesus was persecuted and subsequently killed by the Jews and that Mohammed condemned these Jews as enemies of the scriptures and the faithfuls makes no significant impact. . .it goes in one ear and transits out in the other. They are set in their blindness and no amount of word to the contrary will restore vision for them.[/quote]must u bring mohammed into every discussion?

mantraa:
ALTRUISM is best for mankind.

I cant believe this.

Can u explicitly state the convictions of altruism . . . ?

he is the only one i know who can write 1000 words without answering the question u asked him?

bawomolo:
history is the best teacher.  Even your bible uses history to scare you into being moral.

The right thing is determined[b] by what's best for mankind.
[/b]

what EXACTLY is best for mankind?

babs787:
@Abuzola

Salam brother. It has been happening and it formed part of my reversion to Islam. I am a living witness and apart from myself moving from christianity to Islam, I have witnessed some doing same in public lectures and Allah has touched some people through me as well. There was an instance where one tore the bible when shown some things in the bible and I have witnessed one between one Pastor Isang and Jamiu Adegunwa where most of the christians accepted Islam there before parting and it happened at Law school in Victoria Island, Lagos. Ishaq Akintola from Lagos State University was there as well and the pastor when conrned had to voice out by saying ' You Jamiu again'?  I have witnessed where a pastor told a questioner (sending someone) not to ask questions because it happens to be the foundation of their faith that if there is no dying and resurrection of Jesus, then there is no christianity. I don witness many self, se na pastor that wanted to open eyes or made leapers walk I go talk or those that divert topics like Noetic, Davidylan do here. They would have been given the topic to discuss but when they come, they would start saying another thing and that is the more reason I am not surprised at those two friends of mine

BTW, are you referring to formerly pastor Matthew Oyewole now Masud Oyewole? I have all his certificates signed by late Idahosa then and the pastorate school he attended then?





@Noetic & Davidylan

Oga, what facts do you need apart from that have been tendered so far ranging from:

Deification of Jesus --Is Jesus God?
Was Jesus sent to the whole world?
Did Jesus die for your sins?
Was Jesus a saviour?
Was he crucified?

etc

Choose one and we discuss with facts from your bible and Quran

you are so pathetic.

u choose any of the topics and start a thread for it.

Lautech . . .Ogbomoso

Arise O sing, O ladokites
ever militant, ever reasonable
seeking for peace and justice
intimidation we condone not
great ladokites i am proud of u
great lautech u make me whole
lets join hands to make her great
excellence integrity and service.
SHINE


African church model college . . . I cant remember that now.

what are his qualities that are worth emulating?

were u not taught, NEVER to answer a question with a question?

olabowale:
@Noetic2: In your chaotic opinion, you say Muhammedans. Nothing is called Muhammedan(s).

Muhammad is the name. Check it out in the Quran. There is even a Chapter titled as such. It is after the Ha Mim collection of Chapters.
Muhammad (AS), is a Muslim, a Messenger, a Prophet, a Mumin, etc.

No time did he say that those who followed the religion of Islam are Muhammedans. They are muslims. And I thought you were matriculated!

Whats well written about what the poster presented? Watch the Muslims destroy it. The same way your entries didn't past Muster.

whats all this u are talking about? if u are not a mohammedan, why did u respond?

and when u responded to the OP did u make ANY point at all? do u actually go tru ur posts before u post them?

and why did u not answer my questions on the other thread? u love frivolities.

olabowale:
Don't laugh too hard, yet, until you think for a critical moment by asking yourself and answering the following qusetions:

From Adam to Jesus; is there a prophet who has no instructions to worship The Creator?

None of them. They were all asked to worship GOD.

Was Jesus a Prophet?

Jesus is GOD the son. John 10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

Was Jesus exempted from worshipping his Creator, while Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, etc were required to worship the Creator?

Jesus Himself was the creator. John 1:3-4
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

If Jesus worshipped his Creator, then in what religion methodology did he follow?

When Jesus prayed, He prayed to GOD the father  .  . . not because He had to, but so that we may learn to pray.
He taught us to say the Lord's prayer. . . . I am sure even u know that.

Was that methodology different from that of Adam, Noah, Ibrahim to name just a few?

Adam was never asked/called to worship. All that was requested of him was to dwell in GOD's presence in the garden.
Noah was never called to worship. He was told to ask men to repent from their wicked ways and to help save mankind from impending judgement.
Who is ibrahim?

Abraham was a pagan, who left his father's gods to obey the one and only GOD. His faith in an invisible GOD was justified.

Was Jesus the Creator of heavens and earth, including the Angel Gabreil who was sent to assist him in time of difficulties?

YES . . . Jesus made heaven and earth. John 1:3-4
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Was Jesus the Creator of Adam, etc?

Yes He did. see above answer.

Wouldn't it foolish, if Jesus was and then in the Bible narration of creation of man, we read that he would be telling himself what he was about to do?

what are u talking about?

If Jesus worshipped his Creator as we read that the did, even prayed to him, alone and thought his companions how to worship the Creator, did he worship as the Jews do today, by bopping their face toward the "wailing wall?"

All He did was say PRAYERS to GOD like christians do today. I am very sure He never prayed 5 times daily to a blood-thirsty, unforgiving and heartless "allah".

Is the religion of Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, even Jesus that they worshipped their Creator by still consistently available to us today?

Do u know the meaning of worship at all?
u keep using the word worship, what does worship mean?

Each men served God as requested by God. Jesus is GOD in human form.

What is the name of that religion?

I have no idea of what u are talking about. But let me state that christianity aint a religion, its a relationship with GOD through Christ Jesus.

Is God the Creator not consistent in His way and reliably unchanging God?

of course He is. But I am very SURE, He is not the allah u worship.

Jehovah GOD is NOT allah.

Is the religion Judaism?

what are u talking about?

Is there anything called Jewish people in the time of Moses, since they are called Israelites or Children of Israel?

How relevant is this question to the topic?

Was Jew or Judaism ever in existence until the Children of Israel nations were broken down to Israel and Judea?

I am not a good student of history neither do I subscribe to judaism. you are asking the wrong person.

Is the religion Christianity?

The word christianity is derived from the word christian . . . .
Christians are those in fellowship with GOD through Christ Jesus.
what were u saying, again?

Was Christianity even a religion until after Jesus was "lifted up" by his Creator?

The Christian faith is based on a mandate stated in mark 16:15-16

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Were Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, etc of the Jewish religion or was it the Christian religion?

I believe I answered that earlier.

I will leave Islam out of it for now. But I will remind everyone that Islam simply means "Submission to the Will of the Creatoor, in worship, etc". Ibrahim's statement in Surah An Am (Chapter 6, one of the last 5 verses) comes to mind.

Regardless of what u think islam means. allah is NOT the creator.

It has been repeatedly established on this forum that allah is a blood thirsty moon arabian god, with a wife called allat and 3 daughters.
allah is NOT the GOD of the bible.

Instructions left by Jesus, you asked?
Did he say that he should be worshipped, along with his Creator?

YES He did . . .
John 14:14
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. He said this because HE is GOD.

Did he say that people should pray to his Mother as the Catholics do?

why dont u ask the catholics.

Did he say that he is God, which will tell us that there are more than 1 gods?
Did he say that he was the Creator, too, which means that there are more than 1 Creator?

must u recycle questions. I believe I already answered this.

There is the instruction, according to the Bible that Jesus said: I am not here to abolish but to fulfill the Laws and the prophets. And any who does or suggest anyone to do so, is the least in heaven.

This simply implies that while He has fulfilled the laws on our behalf, He does not expect us to live in sin against the law.

why are quoting from the "corrupt" bible? u should be quoting from ur "holy" koran.

What is the actual meaning of that statement of Jesus, except it is an instruction? Please, noetic no chaotic explanation or interpretation. We can read english. It is simple and direct instruction.

what are u talking about? are u saying this in reference to mohammed?

is mohammed a prophet? what makes him a prophet?
did he perform any miracle? did he make any prophecy? does his message connect to those before him?
was his coming prophesied?

Did you, the Christian body ever follow this instruction, ever, I said?
Did you not take the statement of Paul and company to overcome that of Jesus, whereby you destroyed the laws and the prophets instead of fulfilling them?

now, u sound ignorantly deluded. what EXACTLY are u talking about.

Now when you finish answering these sets of questions, you can laugh hard at yourself, if you still remain a christian.

;DI am still laughing . . . These are the type of NONSENSE people are brainwashed with in the mosque.

over 15 of ur mohammedan colleagues replied to the "why I am not a muslim" thread and NONE of you all could state why EXACTLY u are a muslim.
u need to think and rethink again.

do u really expect olabowale to come up with an answer?

why did allah forgive mohammed's past and future sins?

olabowale:
What is also illogical is the fact that a person can claim to follow an ideal entity, Jesus son of Mary in this case, but turn around and disregard all his statements, and injuctions that he left!

Is it sensible that the religion that Jesus participated in be abandoned, and just because a completely different one is set up with only his name borrowed for it makes this new religion right? If the Jewish religion in practice today is different from the religion of Moses, can we sincerely say that the Jews are followers of Moses, in the real sense of the word?

If Jesus instructed that the Torah and its prophets be relevant throughout time, and a people who claim to be Jesus followers render the OT irrelevant after being advised as above, can we say that this people are truly following Jesus?

If the position of Jesus was stated loud and clear by him, while he was preaching, is it a sensible thing that his position be exagerated to what it is not, just because he was perceived to have died and risen from death, in a badly calculated 3 days?

Christianity, in my opinion, considering the above, without going to more accusations, is just as guilty as the Atheist. At least the atheists are not pretenders. Pretensions is hypocritical and that is worse. Faith is neither scientifically quantified or qualified. So it is when it comes to applications of intellect or logic to it. If any of these three is an ingredient of Faith, the knowledgeable, the logical and the scientists would have been the primaryand earliest followers of each prophet when the mission was began.

It should be realised that Faith being a conviction in the heart and mind (soul/spirit) without first being driven by logic, science and or knowledge, is what made the lowest of the communities accept their prophets, very easily and much earlier in drove than the powerfuls and influencials.

The fact that christianity is guilty and hypocritical in the claim that it follows Jesus, rather the only obvious thing, the borrowing of his name for a completely different religion is why I should not bother myself with them. How do you dialogue with a person who has already made up his mind that Blue color is yellow? He has decided that the only pigment he sees is yellow when anything blue is brought in!

But when the people who are not color blind like him present overwhelming evidence of truth, he resort to calling them liars or worse. Is there more an unjust person who lied against his Creator? Reducing him to a man, in the personage of a prophet, just because the miracle of that prophet is new and unique?

But every miracle is new and unique. If not, it will not be a miracle and be able to get the attentions of those who witnessed it. I will only from now onward respond to posts that speak falsehood about Islam, whenever I come across them.

This is hilarious.

What religion did Jesus practice? where were His instructions?

well written.

what do mohammedans have to say?

uplawal:
won pick race awon elenu razor, or is it too long for u people to read?

you are fast becoming a typical muslim. full of words NO substance.

KAG:
I'd rather live my life morally and ethically, than bother trying to resurrect Pascal, but that's just me.

whats moral? whats immoral? where did u get the ability/teaching to distinguish between both?

olabowale:
To know what is right, you can just know all that s wrong. The  opposite of that will be what is right. This is why I used Christianity, to illustrate my point! If I din't, you may think that "many roads lead to Paradise!" No. There is only one way. God is the Originator of that way: it is Islam. You see, it is not borne out of ethnicity like Judaism (interestingly that is not Christianity). It not borne out of a group organizing a religion after a prophet like Christianity, or Buhhdism, etc!

Allah says that He perfected a religion and mafde it a favor for mankind. He called it islam, literally meaning Submission to the Will of Allah. He further states that anyone who comes to Him on that day with anything other than this particular way; Islam, it will be rejected and not be acceptable. It directly tells me that such a person will enter not paradise but hellfire!

Noetic asked why am I muslim, he confirming why he is a Christian and not a muslim. If I had not attempted to answer him and corrected hislies, I will simply ask him, why was Jesus not a Christian, but declared himself a prophet, a son of man and cried, wept and prayed to a God (a greater Entity) to help him in his time of needs?

Is there a greater indictment against Christians and Christianity? If Jesus was sent as a prophet, having no choice in the matter, is it not natural that a good soul gravitates towards and always longing for submission to God? Afterall, I am a creation of God. The Lord Who created my soul with consciousness of Him, and my body in due propotion, so that I may be able to worship Him with my body and soul.

A proof of this; Allah commands me to stand, so I have adequate tools for this purpose; my  feet. He commands me to bow; my body is properly shaped for it. And I can remain in ths position adequately. He commands me to prostrate my face: Alhamdulillah. It is the best position for my body. I wonder why your not being a muslim is my concern? Islam is not a religion that people can comfortably inherit. This is why you see people starting their own new bloodlines in Islam. The Western countries are full of indigenous families who are muslims. Yet you will se people that you will expect to be muslims walking away from it.

It by the Mercy of allah that I am a Muslim. It is by His Mercy that I have remained one. I pray that I die as one, because from Qur'an and ahadith, I know by Allah that I will enter Paradise, without any moment in Hell!

Hizz up davidylan, your crony Noetic in his chaotic mind has no leg to stand on! I wonder where you are missing the points? Have you performed the experiment of the murkiness of the water (water surface is what you see, duuh), when the sun is setting? Am sure you are afraid to know the truth! It will be a death blow to your ignorance! Yet, you can don the lab coat and perform major experiments, testing for the unnown. Things that you need to wear gloves, eye protection devices, and probably window must be opened or at least the ventillation equipment is working while on the job. Or take in the fumes? Yet a simple stroll to the bank of lake erie or get a big bowl of water and set it so that the rays of dying sun hit it at sunset, you have not performed it! Man, if I ever have seen a man afraid of his own shadow, it will be you.

And for me, I dont care about Christianity. There is nothing to say that Islam will not survive if "Christianity" or any other religion(s) neer have existed or cease to exist? Islam is completely different and have no direct resemblance to any religion. A person who says that a man who is eating is copying him is a fool. It is natural for people to eat and drink. Each one, however develop his/her taste of food, based on many factors.

One of the factors must be cultural and family stable food intake. It is not therefore so surprising that the yorubas have some foods common among themselves. The other factors may include the openness and the acquired taste of the ondividual.No wonder you see a person who has travelled far and wide, having for ranges of food than those who have not from the same cultural background. Most us aspire that we are worshipping God. This is our focus. But only in islam do you have the correct way of worship.

Excellent. you have said a whole lot. . .except that u did not answer ANY of my questions.

manmustwac:
@noetic
whats so evil about being an atheist?

I have from the very beginning of my discussions/debate with atheists asked for the RATIONALITY of atheism. I just don't get it.

why should a believe/disbelieve which is not established on any evidence (scientific or intellectual) ridicule beliefs that are based on faith?
since no evidence has been produced to support atheist belief/disbelief for the non-existence of GOD, it is safe to state that, atheism is based on FAITH. And this is why it is baffling?

In my opinion atheism is evil inclined, as it is neither logically, scientifically nor intellectually tenable?
why should I spend the whole of my life believing there is no God, only to find out at death that there is one? am I possessed?

ThiefOfHearts:
noetic, dont be an asshole.

You asked him why and unlike olabowale and his boring sermons of nothing, he gave a straight answer. You asked why, he told you why. If you want him to go in depth, tell him to do so.

You didnt tell people to use your opening post as a "yard stick"

uhmn

ThiefOfHearts:
oyb did

did u read oyb's post at all?

He claims to bear witness. . . . .why is he a witness? what the rational and logical reason for bearing witness to allah? what are the merits and the demerits? why does he not bear witness to sango, oya, obatala or orunmila?

I offered a chronological list of why I am a christian, which a non-religious can understand here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-280415.0.html
which is what I expect any muslim to use as a yard stick to state his/her points.

Are u a muslim is disguise?

Its called the "holy" Jihad.

ThiefOfHearts:
didnt olabowole already answer the question?

Not that Im surprised that he's ranting/bringing up Christianity despite the fact that has nothing to do with the topic/question

He used certain terms in his first answer, which are not explanatory. I have asked for clarification, he has refused to answer.

davidylan:
he has already done so . . . the only way a muslim can - oppose the bible and the christian narrative.

If christianity disappeared off the face of the earth i doubt islam would survive, it seems to be solely predicated on being anti-christian.

Well stated.
Its amazing that after being muslims for several years, he and others CANNOT simply state why they are muslims without resorting to anti-christian sentiments.

olabowale:
You must be a an ignrant soul to ask me if am serious. [b]Are you serious when you took 3 entities and made them 1?[/b]You must be out of your league if you think you will have a free pass!

Iexplained your lies to you, and you have the gut to ask if I am serious? Did you see any sign of joke in me, per se?

why not open a new thread to address this issue. I will engage u in the discussion/debate.

All I want u to do here is to intelligently tell me why exactly u are a muslim?

olabowale:
@Noetic2: It is chaotic that you have the mind to think that you hav responded to why are you christian, when what you wrote is full of mind bulgling fantasies!

You are trying to defend Jesus as you god, you neglected his Gospels (not that it will make any difference), but instead went to Galathian, and some other books written by Mr. Paul, after Jesus was already lifted up. Mind you Jesus did not lift himself up. It took you sometime before you finally posted a verse from what is known as Gospel "according to" John. The according to provides an indication of the fact that if John wrote it, it is not evidentially strong enough to stand as Jesus statement. In the courts, a third party statement is not admissible.

I wonder therefore, if your statements have any leg to stand on? The evidence is overwhelming against you. If I have to analyse the actions and instructions of Jesus for the possibility of Christianity as a religion, I will find it to be a false religion;

First Jesus, throughout his life never for a moment prayed or acted contrary to the what say Zachariah and John were doing! These were the prophets sharing some part of his time on earth! These men and Jesus never did anything other than follow the footsteps of Moses! They each were there throughout their lives to call their people back to the authentic ways of Moses!

In view of the above; to form a sect other than belonging to the sect that copied these prophets, leads to a path of ruin! To then after the removal of Jesus from the earth take up an ambition to start a separate religion deviating from what he did and advocated that must continue, even after him, is a manifest error! It amounts to disobedience and hatred of the God that sent down the prophet(s) and the prophet(s) who conscentiously and thoroughly delivered their instructs/messages. This is first class idolatry, when without any authority plunk down a false statement and ascribes it to God and or His Prophet!


And when you speak to the 20 years old, you should not lie to him either, because of its naivity. Speak the truth or forever hol your peace. If you are honest, this should be your watch dog.

I have been to your why you are a christian thread. It is full of irrationality and illogical statement. Tudor took you to task on your inconsistencies. I on the other hand challenge you on your intentional lies about the statements in the Quran. A case in point, Mariam verse 71! You claimed that every muslim's reward is hell fire. Thats a lie and you now it. I am personally disheartened by the fact that you are right there in the country where English as a languag originated! How did you arrive to take "passing over it" is to mean "going inside it?" This is a shame, seriously! You must have a horrible spirit which allows you to lie very shamelessly like that.

There is no place in the Quran that it has stated that it is a version of the Bible. Your Bible itself contradict itself, not in just one place, but in many, many places. In some part, Jesus said he is a prophet, son of man, and declares that God Lord the Creator is the same for him and his listeners! Yet we see in other places where the post Jesus earth dwelling period are deducting that he is god. In some places, they call him son of god. But they in other places provide the truth, because they say that he cried, wept as he petitioned his Lord God in Prayers, asking for His help!

Yet, as you read the same bible, the Jews have never considered the New testa ment to mean a thing! I am sure the Jews say that it is a false "Torah", too. I am sure that their not having the name of Jesus in the Torah will also mean that they feel that Jesus was not a prophet and definitely not God, since they know that God is not like us human! I wonder how the holder of your salvation, the Jews see your religion? They must believe that you are a fake, yet you are using the same book!

Finally, I asked you who was the "another comforter," and who was the previous "comforter?" Jesus must know that there was a previous Comfortr before he is promising another Comfoter? What was the nature of the previous comforter: Human being or Ghost? YOu tell us. Should his nature be different from that of the another Comforter? Please provide proofs!

If the another is a "spirit" did he abide with you for ever and how?And what did he teach you?

If the another comforter is a spirit, shouldnt the previous one be a spirit, too? If the previous one was aspirit what did he teach anyone, and who was he sent to and why would he not abide with them forever?

If te previous Comforter was a hman being, then why should the another Comforter be a ghost or spirit? What does it have that makes him be the one to abide with you for ever, whie the revious Comforter could not be the one? You need to answer these questions. Otherwise you will be deemed by me at least as an ignorant man who intentionally lies without any shame!

are u serious at all?