₦airaland Forum

Plagues are good and God knows this. Without them he couldn't teach us how to stop them. -- Jerry Myers

I don't know how 'real' Noah was, or how real Jonah was either, but the signature of the Divine is all over their stories. Since I do things on a regular basis that defies the laws of physics, I can speak with some authority on the matter. -- vtailor

Jesus rose from the dead - no Jew or Muslim did that. Please spare me the fact that Jesus was a Jew, which is true -- duke32

Atheists are known for making absurd claims for which there is no documentation, or claims for which there is considerable documentation in the opposite directions. Or even claims for which there is absolutely no documentation and which all the documentation contradicts -- Reese

You seem to be concentrating on all negative affects of infant mortality. As I said some babies are just to good to live in this world. -- skii

muhsin:
Hmm.

Let me join MrCrackles in saying; good for you.

why are u a muslim?

olabowale:
@Noetic2: You are not a muslim because you want everything on silver platter, including a Salvation you are not willing to lift a single fnger to have! Come to think about it, you want a hand-out. In america, they call people like that Bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I dont know where u got all this from, I am not a muslim simply based on the reasons stated in the OP.

Salvation is the key thing. If all allah has to offer for eternity is hell. . . .why then should I be a muslim?

But Jesus, in the Bible said that not all those who called me god, will enter heaven. It was also stated that he will say to "spme, if not many", in the day of Judgement that he never knew them. Even as these same people tell him that they used to perform "miracles" in his name!

Why do u think they are disqualified from heaven? Does that disqualification include those who are faithful till the very end?

Will those people enter "heaven" in your own view? They happen by descriptions, above to b exclusively Christians. No muslim calls Jesus god! No muslim says he/she perform miracles in the name of Jesus! The very term "muslim" is iconoclastic to accepting any thing is God, except the Creator, Who is always Alive, Able to do all things and have Knowledge of all things!

whats the meaning of this? what has this got to do with the topic?

If some christians, from the mouth of Biblical Jesus will not enter heaven, where is their destination but hell?

Even my illiterate great grand mother can deduce from that passage that He was referring to the false prophets He highlighted in Matthew 24.
So what are u talking about?

The muslims on the other hand, are simply to believe in God as One whose name is Allah. And for such muslim to simply pray the daily Salah. If he/she is poor and weak, no Zakah, but can receive sadaqah, no fasting if impossible for the preservation of even normal health! Nothing is required except the acceptance of One Single God and prayer. Yet this simple almost undemanding process on the physical body, except firmness in the Soul and in the heart (the flesh that is most essential in the body), is enough to guarantee "the Mercy" of Allah! The Mercy of Allah means reward in paradise, because the sins are overlooked.

Now who is definitely not sure to go to Paradise?

Absolutely irrelevant.

Simply tell us why u are a muslim in relation to the opening post.

Pastor AIO:
Yep God is one-sided.  It is evidence throughout creation.  Everything displays asymmetry.  Why are humans either left handed or righthanded.  Why can't we use both hands equally?

Why is there more matter than anti-matter?  Actually without this particular asymmetry the universe wouldn't exist.

There is asymmetry in quantum physics too.

The face is asymetric too.  one side is not the mirror image of the other.  

Yes the creator is definately one-sided.

This is a bold statement. . . prove it

And please don't refer to the "asymmetry" rhetoric above, it has no connection to the topic.

ajokeakin:
do you want to tell me that its only those on his side that are making it today?or that can afford three square meal?do you want to tell me that its only those on his side that are making it today?or that can afford three square meal?

Where in my post did u DELUSIVELY deduce this?

if its one God that created us we ought to be able same.The houise opposite me they are 11 in the family,its only one that has money ,the rest are still struggling with their fate,if the rich one does not send money,they wont eat in that house,so what are we saying?

this are just rantings that are  a product of ignorance. U cannot conform God to ur pre-conceived notions and ideas.

Ask and You Shall Be Given Matt 7:7

check this out

Gravity: Doesn't exist. If items of mass had any impact of others, then mountains should have people orbiting them. Or the space shuttle in space should have the astronauts orbiting it. Of course, that's just the tip of the gravity myth. Think about it. Scientists want us to believe that the sun has a gravitation pull strong enough to keep a planet like neptune or pluto in orbit, but then it's not strong enough to keep the moon in orbit? Why is that? What I believe is going on here is this: These objects in space have yet to receive mans touch, and thus have no sin to weigh them down. This isn't the case for earth, where we see the impact of transfered sin to material objects. The more sin, the heavier something is.

-Anonymous

I love this:

No, everyone is born Christian. Only later in life do people choose to stray from Jesus and worship satan instead. Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims.

Anonymous.

davidylan:
I dont want to go get killed. So thanks but no thanks.

you people are indeed "peaceful".

I would not advice u attend either, cos JIHAD might happen soon after the debate.

ajokeakin:
Why is God one sided? yes i am not drunk,i say why is God one sided? From the beggining of this world,he has been one sided. in the beggining out of Cain and Abel,he love Abel, between Isaac and Ishmael,he loved Isaac, between Jacob and Esau,he loved Esau,from the family of Joseph he loved Joseph and so on and so fort.Even in a family he will make one of them rich and the rest to be looking up unto their rich brother.But why cant he love all of us equally and give us all equal blessings?I rewaly believed God to be a one sided God.

Typical ignorance.

why are u not on HIS side?

IS THERE NO SCIENTIFIC OR INTELLECTUAL EVIDENCE? . . . . . WHERE IS IT?

where is huxley? where is mazaje? where is KAG? . . . . .where are the floods of atheists?

MrCrackles:
Fair enough and good for you!

So why are u a muslim?

You already know why I am not an atheist. I feel it is fair I also tell u why I am not a muslim.


1. The unfair Reward:

I think that the reward for service (assuming I was a devout muslim) to Allah is very unfair. Take for instance the tenets of islam encourages me:

To profess Allah (as my "GOD" and mohammed (as a "prophet"
to spend my hard earned dollars/pounds to embark on an annual pilgrimage to mecca and meddina (Hajj)
fast annually as a service to islam (sawm)
have as many "temporary" marriages as possible excluding the 4 wives I am entitled to
To pray 5 times daily (salah)
To give alms to the poor (Zakah)
To kill, deystroy, annihilate and excommunicate defenceless people because they don't acknowledge Allah (Jihad).

Now as a muslim (if I were one) I dont have a problem doing all of these above. My major problem is the reward. Hear what Allah says :

There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
-- Sura 19:71-72


Why should I be subjected to the torments of hell like other "unbelievers" after I have done so much for allah? Why should allah ever reward a faithful me like this. . . why? why allah, why?


Depending on how I look at it I have another comfortable route to escape hell fire. . , hear what allah says:

And if ye are SLAIN, or[b] DIE[/b], in the way of Allah,
forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
And if ye DIE, or are SLAIN, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
-- Sura 3:157-158

Think not of those who are SLAIN in Allah's way as dead.
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
-- Sura 3:169

Whaooo . . .  .All I have to do now is fight jihad (suicide bombing, terorrism et all) and I will be fine with allah . . , Though I am promised even more reward (72 virgins) by the words of the "prophet"
hear him:
Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

On the other hand if I were a woman . . . what would I get? 72 men to shag me for eternity?

I am also not comfortable being called a messenger. After living and growing up in an african environment where maids did all the chores, I understand that they are usually 2nd/3rd or even 4th class citizens, they are uncared for and experience no genuie love, neither do they have a meaningful relationship with their "masters" . . . .so why EXACTLY should I be anyone's slave?
Or is there anywhere in the koran where allah was called FATHER? is there anywhere in the koran where he proffesed LOVE to muslims? . ,  I am genuinely desperate for answers.

What is salvation in islam? how I do I know my sins have been redeemed? apart from jihad (killing others) is there any other way I can get to heaven?

The tenets of islam I am comfortable with except JIHAD . . . what I dont like is the fact that no matter what I do, I am merely a messenger who will end up in hell by the ordinance of allah.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5

2. Women/Human rights violation. . . .Negation to my Conscience

OK. I am very very very uncomfortable with the women/human rights abuses prevalent in islam. I dont know if it is koranic or cultural. But the prevalent nature of honour killings, holy jihad, suicide bombing, extensive wife beating, temporary marriages, divorcing by saying it 3 times and lots of underage marriage are islamic norms I would not want my sister/daughter to EVER experience.

Here is a detailed EVIDENCE that islam supports all of these attrocities against womenhood.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm


3. Inconsistencies of Allah

I and other non-muslims have been asking repeatedly if Allah is the same as Jehovah God of the bible?
For a fact we know that mohammed's father is called Abdallah . . . .meaning slave of allah. Bear in mind that mohammed's father died before mohammed was born, so who was the allah that mohammed's father was worshipping?

Well history also tells us of an "allah" that existed before the birth of mohammed. He had a wife called "Allat" together they had three daughters who were worshipped by the people of saudi arabia. their daughters are al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. This allah was worshipped in the ka'aba.

Is there any reason to believe that this is not the same idolic allah (pre-mohammed) that is now being paraded as today's Allah. . . .alledgedly equivalent to the bible GOD?

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

why does allah not encourage forgiveness? why must anyone caught stealing be amputated or beheaded? including children who steal cos of poverty.

I am not justifying anything. . . I just consider this heartless and very unfair.


4. Inconsistencies of Mohammed

Let me state here that I have nothing against mo. But as an historical figure who is being used by his followers as the yard stick for morality in today's world, it is pertinent he is placed under the scrutiny of human microscopic analysis.

It has been repeatedly established that mohammed had a sexual relationship with a 9 year old girl (Aisha).
It has been repeatedly established that pre-mohammed, this under-age marriage or sexual relations was uncultural.
It has been repeatedly established that muslims all over the world now see this deed of mo, as one worth emulating.

would u let ur 9 year old daughter/sister have sexual relations with an adult?

For me the answer is NO. . . .as such I detest . . . .

http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/

5. Endless violence/ Terrorism/ Unforgiveness

You have seen from point one that I would only make it to heaven if I am a terrorist (jihadist), otherwise I am hell-bound by the ordinance of allah.
You have seen from point one that Allah sees me as a slave and nothing more.
You have seen from point two that my daughter/sister are unprotected from abuse according to the tenets of islam.
You have seen from point three that there are NO differences between the allah who preceded mo and the one he introduced.

You have also seen from point three that at the slightest mistake, it is convinient for allah to ask mohammedans to chop off my hand or behead me for "sinning". . .without recourse to mercy or forgiveness.


Do u know ANY reason why I should be a Muslim?

is mohammed a prophet?
what were his prophecies?
what were his miracles?

There is absolutely no reason why I should EVER call mohammed a prophet.

6. A better Package

I dont want to go to hell after all my service to allah. There is hope of eternity in Christ Jesus.

Are u a muslim? . . . .Why are u a muslim?
Are u a non-muslim ?. . . . Why are u not a muslim?

Abuzola:
Christians and muslims are all invited including u noetic, u go see how ur pastor go shit for body after the humiliation

u are so pathetic . . . . whats humiliating in knowing that the islamic account of Jesus is a fraud?

Another frivolous propaganda.

huxley2:
MY dear, prayers are the LAST things you need. You need liberating from the grip of barbaric doctrines of bible and Christianity. You will only become sad and depress if you repress your natural instinct.

Another false statement that cannot be proven.

The question you have got to ask yourself is this - Where did this tendecy for homosexuality come from?

u tell us. . . .where?

are u this frustrated . . .where is ur scientific evidence?

Dreams do come through.

And yes God does speak to me through dreams. . . .as a matter of fact I am scared of my dreams cos they come through just like I had them.

KAG:
These are all semantics and diversionary tactics. Can you please answer the question and give us your scientific evidence that proves that there is no God and stop beating about the bush.

Um, what? How exactly are they semantics and diversionary tactics? I didn't even going into definitions or anything of the sort, so I'm puzzled at the suugestion that any of that has to do with semantics. Do you know what semantics mean?

In any case, since I'm already indulging you, I suppose it's only proper that I give you the context of this line of discussion, since you somehow failed to read it.

After I pointed out that,

'According to me, there is scientific evidence to buttress the notion of the non-existence of gods, but there isn't scientific evidence for the non-existence of gods. Do you see the difference? Science can be used to buttress, but not as one's categorical primary argument against all gods. That is not to say, however, that some principles of gods can't be shown to be wrong, like for instance the discovery that lightning weren't Zeus's weapons. What happens next, though, is that the "true believers" find a way to ignore that their beliefs have been falsified. A very recent example is the case of where the science of genetics showed that a central belief of the Mormon church - made by Joey Smith - were wrong. Facts still didn't deter the "true believers".'

the op asked yet again for scientific evidence. As you can see there were no diversions or semantics. Further, I responded squarely to what was in the op and subsequent responses. Now you do the same.
Prof. Hawking summed up in his own opinion what has been discovered but do you know who originated the scientific laws that was discovered and formulated by man in the first place?

The scientifc laws were created by humans. What those laws describe, however, as implied in the quote from Hawking, do not need gods to be operational. Depending on the law or theory in question, full or partial understanding of how and what causes them to occur may be decipherable.

To reiterate, the scientifc discoveries are not primary evidence against gods. They do, however, buttress arguments against the need for gods. Essentially, "goddidit" began its slow march towards death with the onset of modern science.
You evolutionists have avoided the big bang theory because you know how ridiculous it has panned out to be but that is the foundation that you base your other theories like the evolutionary theory on. Tell us what caused the big bang at the very beginning? Was that thing eternal, that is, has it always existed? Your guess is as good as mine.

Well, first, you're both and wrong and lying. You're wrong to imply that acceptance of the Big Bang theory is analogous to acceptance of the theory of evolution. Two different theories; two different fields. And you're lying when you imply that I, at the very least, have avoided the Big Bang theory. Far from it, and you know it.

If you want me to address the Big Bang theory with you, then you have to acknowledge all the other times I've done that, particularly the ones with you participating. That's all you have to do. Repent from your lie, and show that you remember at least a little tidbit of my other posts on the subject.
Can you for once leave the Bible (that you don't understand or believe in) out of this and explain to us your evidence of the non existence of God?

No, I can't leave the Bible out of this. That you ignore that the Bible in itself indicates the falsity of the claims on the behalf of the Christian god, is telling.
As if you have done anything else but this.This is your intellectual dishonesty showing up here, we all know what you stand for so there is no point playing your game of semantics again.

You use words to which you don't seem to know their meaning. Anyway, my point stands, irrespective of what you think I stand for. The Bible is what I said it is.

Yeah, I'm bored already. If you hade read the op, you'd have realised that the poster also asked for an intellectual based response to the non-existence of gods. Yeah, that's where inherent contradictions come into play. That's where the Christian's god and love have a conflict if the Bible is used as our source. Also, if you had bothered to read all of my posts rather than trying to give the semblance of response with drivel (that also tells me something about the effect the parts you may have read are having), you'd have seen how I address both the scientific and the, for a lack of a better word, the intellectual aspects of disbelieving that gods exist.

I should also add here that if you had really thought that I was confused about what 1st John and 1st Corinthians are saying, you'd have been eager - over-eager, in fact - to show where I went wrong in my analysis. As it stands, we both know that it isn't me that is confused about what those verses say.

Finally, as to the Big Bang. See an earlier part of this post. Ciao.

Am I the only one that cant see this EVIDENCE of yours? Where is ur scientific evidence?

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=279631.msg3977232#msg3977232 date=1244131406]Lol, bros noetic2. . . don't let these gentlemen trap you. You seem to have set a clap-trap for yourself, so watch it. The thing is not so much about "acknowledging" anything. The point in mine to huxley2 was clear: the Christian does not have a "need to disprove" what deities he (huxley2) mentioned. If he believes in them (not as a matter of teasing), all well and good: and, of course, his colleagues would have to ask him the simple and necessary question: WHY?

That is different from 'acknowledging' anything. Not because of the convenience of evasions and prevarications; but rather because the one who postulates seriously that he does believe in those entities as regards their very "existence" should demonstrate satisfactorily their veracity. That again does not mean that he is obliged to; more seriously, it would help his atheists colleagues come to a common grounds of their most cherished underlying bolt: the grounds for denying anything that does not square with their naturalism. Can they actually do so? That is what I am waiting for. This is why I remarked that dalaman was very, very smart (I don't know if he actually read where I was going; but he has a good head on his shoulders to at least decode my point). Tùdor, on the other hand, is yet to see it - and that is why he assumes this is about the same approach he's familiar with.

I'm eager to see it.[/quote]On the contrary. . , .I have repeatedly asked mazaje and huxley if they believe in the existence of "FILIBANGBASKI". . . .both have not been bold enough to reply.

While I do get ur point. . . my "acknowledgement" is intended to also draw them out of their hiding "denial" shell.

huxley2:
Atheist need to disprove the existence of god in the same way that Christians need to disprove the existence of Zeus, Dionysus, Sussicorn, Taqata.  Once I see evidence that disproves the existence of these gods( Zeus, Dionysus, Sussicorn, Taqata) then I shall show you the evidence that disproves your god.

Like pilgrim pointed out. , . the existence/non-existence of these gods is not the bone of contention for a christian. The bone of contention is their acknowledgement. Whether they exist or not is not an issue. . . .they are NOT acknowledged.

so when are u going to provide this "evidence" of urs.

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=279631.msg3977013#msg3977013 date=1244129606]Pilgrim i want you to come out straight and answer the question
DO YOU BELIEVE ALLAH THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH,THE ALL POWERFUL,OMHNIPOTET AND MERCIFUL GOD,WHO SENT HIS PROPHET MOHAMMED FOR THE LIBERATION OF THE WORLD? Yes or no[/quote]Who is allah? . . . , if u can tell me who he/it is, then ur question can be answered.

huxley2:
Pretty obvious, isn't it? God is barbarism, violence, rape, murder, cannibalism, human sacrifice, vindictive, etc, etc.

WHO/WHAT is the alternative to GOD (an entity) ?

huxley:
Interesting! Where would you rather live? In a world governed by the OT god's standards described above (genocide, racism, infanticide etc) OR in a world "according to your own values"?

What are ur own values?

Whats the source of ur values?

If God is NOT love . . . . what is the alternative?

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=279631.msg3975449#msg3975449 date=1244112049]Hi dalaman,

Just a salient point here: you assume far too much and arrive at a narrow conscript. Why does the atheist assume that it is his prerogative to "disprove" the claims of theism - whether Christian or any other? Does that not in itself suggest that you really haven't grasp what atheism is in essence? It is not about whether a particular deity exists or not, but whether ANY evidence could point to the reality of the supernatural. It is not only the Christian that believes in the supernatural, but other theists as well do - which again would in essence draw in the claims of atheistic religions involving belief in 'gods, spirits', etc. If the 'atheist' whom you hoot for is going to be quite informed about the realities of our world, what would be his focus - to "[b]dis[/b]prove" this reality? It's like you already made up your mind even before asking for a dialogue.[/quote]Well stated.

This has been the point other NL christians including daviddylan and olaadegbu have been making.
Why should anyone sit back and await the evidence of the other? It is for the sake of knowledge that we all seek evidences/proofs from all those buttressing ANY argument. If God does not exist. . . simply prove it, . . , . .I don't know why this is so difficult for NL atheists.

I dont remember asking u for a simple basic reason. . . . .ur scientific evidences are required.

dalaman:
I am not an atheist but let me try to reason as one and see if I can address some of the issues you raised from their own perspective.

The theist can also not substantiate his beliefs, the theist believes relies only on faith and we know faith in to God to be a belief that is not based on proof. The atheist does not believe in the God the theist tells him about , They do not say that there is no God(I can speak for my atheist friends here) but they say that the evidence we the theist provided for them as evidence for the existence of God is not evidence that is credible so they reject our evidence or lack of evidence and deny the existence of the God we talk about(The Christian God in this case) since we can not provided credible evidence to them.

Most atheist world view relies mostly on empirical evidence.

The theist who says there is a God is yet to provide any scientific, logical and intellectual evidence for the existence of God, how then do you expect the atheist to do that which you have been unable to do? When you as the theist provide a scientific, intellectual and logical evidence for the existence of God only then can you tell the atheist to disprove the scientific,logical and intellectual evidence for God that you have provided, since you are unable to provided any how do you expect the atheist to provide evidence to disprove what you have not provided evidence for?

I want you to prove that all the yoruba Gods do not exist at all. The atheist simply says he does not believe.(Most nairaland atheist are different though, they are more interested in mocking and confrontations)

You have to present the said ontology of Jehovah so that the atheist can examine it and know if it is worth believing or not.

Is this a rant about Evolution or are you presenting your case against atheism? I know more Christians that believe in evolution than atheist. Its difficult to find scientist that are Christians over here but most of the Christian scientist I see around all believe in evolution, they do not believe in creationism. There are a lot of Christians scientist in the USA that believe in evolution too. So it is not only atheist that believe in evolution.


I have seen them provided their reasons unless if you do not consider them to be reasons at all, I have seen atheist here say that they do not believe because the Christian has no evidence of God giving any moral law or commandment all what we the Christians have are words written in a book that were written by men, put together by men through a vote and interpreted by men. That is a case for atheism that some atheist have provided. The atheist works with what the theist has provided and came to the conclusion that it is false. Some atheist here have looked at the ontology of the Christian God and have come to the conclusion that he does not exist based on such ontology, Here is one from Mazaje.

Some atheist have been able to create alternative explanations like the big bang theory. That is debatable but that does not mean that they haven't provided alternate explanations.

You don't have to provide the answer to 234566776*6554858746363 as long as you know it is not 5, the burdern of prove rest on the person that says it is 5. There are simply and complex maths 5*5 is a simple maths but 53647473636363*6363748489484/6737383893983 is a very complex mathematics.

Is it also acceptable for the theist to say that he cannot prove the existence of God? The atheist can not prove the existence or non existence of any God but he can go through the evidence that is given by the Christian to see if the Christians assertions are true, the Christian presents the bible as the words of a perfect God that is all knowing, all loving, all powerful and all mighty who created the universe. But the atheist takes a look at the bible and sees a lot of contradictions, a lot of inconsistency in the bible and on the part of God, a lot of historical and scientific errors, A lot of merciless and sometimes wicked acts that were carried out by God directly or indirectly, some little editing and very different translations and mixed up messages that result for the different translations and concludes that this is not the word of a perfect God who is all knowing, all loving, who created the universe because if it is, it will not contain any errors or contradictions, merciless or wicked acts from God who is said to be merciful and loving. A perfect God the atheist believes will not allow inperfectnion into his holy book. The atheist also say that the bible was written by men not God.

The Christians here have neither been able to answer any the questions they are throwing at the atheist, every body is just throwing mud all over the place. No body has been able to answer anything.


When you make such an assertion I believe you are asking for more questions than answering because the atheist will then ask you to prove or provided evidence that there is life after death. You will then point to the bible but the atheist will disregard it and say that the bible is not to be believed because it has a lot of errors and contradictions in it.

Atheist do not believe that their situation is a loose-loose. If they do i believe they will be theist so that they can be safe in case it doesn't turn out their way.

Disbelief does not need to have scientific evidence. You as a Christian has not been able to provided scientific evidence for your own beliefs, how then do you expect the atheist to provided scientific evidence for his own disbeliefs? They atheist have provided a lot of intellectual driven reasons for their disbeliefs and I have provided some of them here. They have also provided very logical and coherent explanations for their disbelief. They also have provided sensible alternative to the Christian postulations. The fact that you do not agree with them does not mean that they haven't provided them.

Whats the meaning of all this?. . . . .I did not ask for an opinion. . . .all u were required to do was to answer the questions in RED. . . .is that a problem?

[quote author=must_a_far link=topic=279645.msg3972278#msg3972278 date=1244049322]"i no wan die, i no wan wound, i get one child, mama dey for house, papa dey for house, i wan build house, i no wan go, i wan build house"[/quote]

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=279630.msg3972163#msg3972163 date=1244048468]Scientific evidence that god is a fallacy; how about common sense
we'have never seen,heard,smelt,tasted or experienced him. We have not seen his works and no evidence whatsoever to confirm those attributed to him.[/quote]Who is "we"?

If indeed you have seen,heard tasted or felt god/allah, then PROVE IT TO US.simple

This has been proven severally. , . .This thread is DEDICATED to u atheists to prove ur case. . . . . so U prove ur beliefs. . ,

huxley2:
What would you do to avoid the risk of sinning?

why should u answer a question with a question?

huxley2:
Well, they advertise to impress the credulous, ignorant and gullible. And of course, to fleece them which is the main reason they advertise.

does that deny the existence/possibility of miracles?

KAG:
Yes, and I then proceded to give a detailed response to both its premise and fallacies.


Not quite. AAccording to me, there is scientific evidence to buttress the notion of the non-existence of gods, but there isn't scientific evidence for the non-existence of gods. Do you see the difference? Science can be used to buttress, but not as one's categorical primary argument against all gods. That is not to say, however, that some principles of gods can't be shown to be wrong, like for instance the discovery that lightning weren't Zeus's weapons. What happens next, though, is that the "true believers" find a way to ignore that their beliefs have been falsified. A very recent example is the case of where the science of genetics showed that a central belief of the Mormon church - made by Joey Smith - were wrong. Facts still didn't deter the "true believers".

Please produce these "scientific evidences" . . .

I don't think you understand what the terms "intelectual" and "logical" mean. Also, even if for some bizarre reason my definition of goodness, mercy, etc. are rejected out hand, I can simply turn to the book Christians call the book of their god and show that their god lacks several of the characteristics as defined or implied in said book.
why should the bible be the criteria for defining these characteristics?

If we were to be blind to everything else, but came across John 4:8 ". . . God is love" and then realised that Paul gives a definition of what it means to love in 1st Corinthians 13:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

. . .then, anyone that asks that we believe ina literal reading of the Bible has to logicallly, intellectually accept that the Judeo-Christian god isn't love. It (the Christian's god) isn't good, if love is what Paul says it is.

Good? Good is an arbitrary term to define things that we perceive to be favourable to us and the people we love or with whom we empathise. The Christian god? I only understand it from what Christian tradition and the Old Testament have claimed on its behalf. That god, if it existed, would be one of the most schizophrenic entities in existence.
This is a better explanation for atheism. Denying the existence of GOD, not on a scientific or intellectual, logical or rational basis, perhaps on the basis of inherent bitterness triggered by hate.

I have a problem with ur major inconsistencies. In one breadth, the bible is a fairytale, and now u are quoting out of it to justify ur misinformed notions. Define ur meaning of good, love and other xterics. . .  explain ur understanding of GOD (if u have any). . .then reconcile the meaning of these xterics to ur understanding of GOD.

You'd make a lousy psychologist. Don't quit your day job. It has nothing to do with any supposed "inherent bitterness triggered by hate", and more to do with I don't see gods existing. The graves some think they are buried are still generally fresh mounds, so I suppose most don't realise the gods are gone.

EVIDENCE ?