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 Christianity Etc › Re: Are There Any Former Muslims In Here? by olabowale(m): 3:12am On Dec 21, 2007 |
@Nwando, Leilah and Pilgrim.1: God Almighty is great. I had no intention of coming on NL and definitely on this thread, except that Allah the Almighty directed me. I need to offer a rebuttal to nwando, the big instigator, trying ever so hard to turn people away from the part of guidance! leilah,please listen to pilgrim1.If any one ever listens to Princess Pilgrim.1, on matters of religion, in the state of confusion that she is in now, calling an ordinary mortal, rejected enmasse his own people and never gained acceptance with them, Lord/God, such a person better take his/her position, on the line that goes to Hellfire! It is a forgone conclusion, a decree that will be come to pass. A hatman decree. If she was ever a Muslim, she knew nothing about Islam then and she even knows less now! It is her heart. It refused and still refusing to accept guidance. If she knows anything about jesus son of Mary, she would have known that nothing he did could qualify him to be Almighty God! I can give a trillion reasons, and I wouild not have finished with reasons for its unqualifiability! The greatest of them is that he himself Prayed to God Almighty at the garden of Geshamene, that should indeed save him from desaster! @babs787,Pilgrim.1, i thought you were going to point out to us how being touched by Shaitan, equates to sinfulness, especially by babies, when born? But you huff and puff, but you could not blow down the house, because it is made of brick, The Qur'an and Hadith. If you were right, you would have told us, from the Bible that you are inviting somebody to believe and the personage of that belief, Jesus was indeed a sinner, by your statement of the devils mere interraction. Afterall, babies asre very weak and needed the adults support, especially that of the mother. How can you explain that of a grown man, who you call God when the devil/Shaitan is able to take me into the wilderness, and then tempted him at least 3 times? If the new baby who cried because the Shaitan touched him, is a sinner by this, we sure must agree the grown man who was driven by the same Shaitan into the wilderness and tempted repeatedly is also a sinnner! But thank God, for Muhammad, who hve spoken the truth and defended Muhammad from your subjective lies. What Muhammad, indeed Qur'an and hadith teached about Mary and her son Jesus, that they are the two people who God did not create Shaitan/Shayatin for. However when Muhammad was asked about himself, he said that God had tamed his own Shayatin! It is as if he did not have any, because it is rendered useless. It is like when people say that there is multiple godhead and all of them are really useless and unimportant to the decision of the true God! If I were to respond to your statement about women, I will spend all day educating you. However, Islam command all the essential aspect of worship on men and women, without any prejudice or favor! A person who goes to paradise or hellfire, is not based on the gender, but on God consciousness, piety and good deeds. But we see that women are more intensely emotional than men. So women's judgement, by and large may ride on this emotional quality more than men who repress this side of them. Even if you attribute sin to "whoever does it alone", it all the more establishes the fact that Muhammad was a sinner - because by your assumptions, sin is attributed to Muhammad as he alone would then have been doing it!Surah Taha was revealed because Muhammad worshipped too much at night, without resting. Allah told him to worship part of the night and rest there off, after it. Aisha asked him why he worshipped this much when Allah had forgiven any sins he might committed in the past (note the might part. It does not indicate that he ever committed any sin. All you have to do is to look at his life before he received revelation and it will become very clear!), and the sins of the future (from referencing the future, we see that God had extended mercy to him, even if he were to come into the sin. But is it possible that God raise up a Prophet and a Messenger and allows him to go astray as to commit sins?)? He responded to Aisha that shouldn't he be thnkful to his Lord for this? In Surah Fajr, we see the last two verse where God says to him and the true believers, that Oh my servants whose souls are pleasing to Your Lord, go into pleasure in My garden, enter Paradise, (I paraphrase the meaaning). In all your statement, Pilgrim.1, you sound very sure, but you offered no proof! Muhammad stated that the pen is lifted for 3 people; The onee who is asleep, meaning unconscious. The one who is sick in the head, meaning deranged or man. And the child, meaning the one who has not reached puberty. How then is the touch of Shaitan on a newly born translated to that child being a sinner by that touch? No wonder you are explaining away something that does not go together, yet nwando couldn't see that you did not tie anything together! Just one point here in all of this: mr babs787, you will not help Leilah with such deception. If she buys into your duplicity, I'm truly sorry for her!Princess Pilgrim.1, it is you that is full of deceptions. Laying your traps of deceit all about the places, like a 'gospel preached about the places,' yet there is no reality to your traps. Of course, as to the preached gospel which i indicated above, no one can tell us anything about it. Qur'an says that we the muslims are inviting others to paradise, while they are inviting us to hellfire. Who are doer of better deeds, between the two groups? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: You Must Respond To This Or Remain Silent For Ever! by olabowale(m): 8:22pm On Dec 20, 2007 |
@Omolulu: Your quoting Revelation and Corinthian verses and the likes, will not profit you in making a case for Jesus. Jesus status is already established with his Creator. You have no real argument to substanciate anything other than the fact that some guy is claiming him to be what he is not! You are not capable of using the words of Jesus son of Mary to support himself about what you are claiming for him. It is you that should be concern about the terrible utterrance that comes out tha the Merciful has a son and partner! I have God the Almighty to support me. Then in addition to that, as a multiple layers of support, under the support of their Creator, are his Angels, His prophets, including the master Jesus himself, all true believers, the Jinns of them and the humans of them. I am ready and prepared. I fear none, but the Creator! God, alone is sufficient as my Witness! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: You Must Respond To This Or Remain Silent For Ever! by olabowale(m): 5:02pm On Dec 20, 2007 |
@Grouppoint and Omololu: First at grouppoint, I completed a response to you, yesterday only to mistakenly pressed the wrong button, and deleted, everything! Well, God the Almighty had given me strength to respond today. But I thought you will stop using a subtle references and other tactics to restrict people to your Scripture? Let me share something with you. Instead of you proving logic and critical thinking to dialogue with Omololu, even though he is a Christian, you in one way try to stop him from using the Bible and then in another call Jesus Lord Jesus? Is that deceit or what is that? Hi Olabowale,The house of lord in England has politican power beyond its chambers. Indeed their power include determining who dies and who lives as England is concerns, by its colonisation and the wars she wages! By this its power over humans, does it mean they are truly "LORD?" More so we have many in the Judiciaries who are called lords. Truly there is only One Lord which is God. the rest are just in name only, but not in ultimate power. There were people referenced as lord(s0, before David wrote that Psalm. You need to check it out yourself. Regarding the idea of 'majestic pronouns’:It depend on what you mean by scripture. But lets leave that alone. We see that from the, 'I will bless you,' that He did not need the others, if there is any at all in, 'let us make man in Our image,' to enact/demostrate His control. Therefore, we see that the others, if at all there is any are completely useless and irrelevant for any action of God to take hold. Regarding the Idea of religion making rational sense:Even the Hindus belief indicate that there is One God, but they have the others under Him. Ask the Hindus, they are very plentiful in UK. Does this belief make any sense with you? If you say yes, then one will have to say that you are in the wrong religion. If you say no, I can see why you are in Christianity, because it reduces the multiple gods to just 3! I do not have to tell you that there is a Mover/Creator, before you believe it. Even the Atheist belief that there is a singular entity that originated creation. they just do not call him God. Regarding the Lord, LORD, lord.Let me be bold here: the idea that you and your son are one, is a very lame idea. For many reasons, you are the one that sleeps with his mother, not he. You are the one that lays down the law that govern the household, not he. You can punish your son, but your son can not punish you. You can deprive your son of favor with you, he practically has no ability to threaten you with, or withholding any favor from you, since he does not have any when it concerns you, and as long as he is under your household. It is the same that we can say of those who are Creations of God, be they on earth or in heavens! I do not want you to plant any seed in the heart/mind of any gullible soul, without my rebuttal: What is true about Jesus is been confirmed by the Qur'an. All the fallacies of Saul/Paul have been denied as well. Regarding the Similarity between Ruach and RuuhYour believe about Ruach from the OT is wrong, when it comes to the belief of the Muslims. However, as I have said before, Qur'an confirms all that is true, from the Bible; OT, Psalm and NT. To assume that Gabreil is not Ruach/Ruuh in this case is lack of proper understanding. If one considers that you have indicated that this Ruach actually manifested itself into Physical being, when it is necessary, and since we know that Angels have been seen by prophets of olds. Gabreil was also seen by many prophets, including Muhammad amng them. No one can deny this fact. Ruuh is also the soul part of a living human being. If as you say, the pure Qur'an in Arabiya has information similar to that found in the old testament, then there must be some relationship between the two. Surely one was given before the other. Are you asserting that the Torah and Old testament which were first given are untrue? If so, where did the information come from and why is it then very similar to the Qu’ran?Qur'an agrees, as confirmer of the truth of the Bible; In the OT, it agrees with God being One and not 3godhead of the NT. In the NT, it agrees with Jesus being a Prophet and Messiah (Messenger), to the Children of Israel and the fact that Jesus heralded the coming of the Comforter. However there are many things Qur'an confirms that are not in either the Toral or the Injiil. There are things that the Qur'an rebuked that are in the Bible, the OT and NT. The Qur'an is clear by this as the Independent material source and also the best to support the truth where the two may differ, if one of them is correct. This matter is a very simple one, The Bible gives a clear account of Jesus's origins, John1:1 says "In the Beginning was the Word,and the Word was with GOD,ANd the word was GOD, (vs14) and the Word became fllesh and dwelt amongst men(vs 10) The Word was in the world.and the world knew Him not(vs12)Yet some people accepted him and put their faith in him,So he gave them the right to be children of GOD(vs18), No one has ever seen GOD.The only Son,who is truly God anad is closest to the Father,has shown us what GOD is Like.If we look at the sequential event of the 'word' up to where this word, gave the right for people to be Children of God, we will just have to say that there are a lot of Children of God running around the world, doing all kinds of deeds, from very good to very bad. I ask myself, if they are truly Children of God as a child is the child of his father, you will expect the quality of God to be in them. But how do you explain the children of God who are doing bad deeds? The devil in them runs out the God blood in them? You will realise that your just saying it does not make it so, because you are just saying pure conjecture, a lie against God. There is no son of God and there is no begotten son of God. none whatsoever. The christian religion is one based on faith and faith alone, not on science or archeology or any discipline.Every scholar or clergyman has his right to view things in his own Light, However as a true christian,my belief in Jesus Status as GOD is based on the bible and the bible alone(whether confirmed or not), whyy do i even need science to confirm the truth, the same science which disputes the creation story of the Bible via it's postulation of the Big bang theory(Einstein i believe).You spoke volume. Read your Bible again. Jesus was called Prophet in it. Even the dead bones of Elijah or was it Elisha was good enough to wake up a dead man. If the raising up of dead is your litmus, then there are many Gods with God Almighty in the Bible. Quote from: Omolulu on Today at 11:23:53 AM |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 10:07pm On Dec 19, 2007 |
Nwando has a crush on Islam. For sure her fetish is that religion. But she is putting up a bold front. But we all see beyond the facade. She will soon put Hijab on, willingly! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Allah Is One by olabowale(m): 5:42pm On Dec 19, 2007 |
Of course, you know that it was rather Muhammad who added "Mary" as part of the Trinity in the Qur'an (5:116) - that is where the whole confusion begins! Muhammad lied, and Muslims cannot see their finger from their hands!@Pilgrim.1: Which came first; the Chicken or the egg? It is the Chicken, because it needs the warmth of the chicken, during the incubation period. Of course, it has to form first inside the Chicken, and the semen of the roaster, the male has to fertilise it. Now here is your test; Which came first, the Catholic sect of Christianity or the Protestant sect of Christianity? You also know that, without any doubt and the proof is in your own writing on another thread, "Are there Any former Muslims here," and I quote you, under #(a) sub paragraph below, "the bold statement that the Popes openly said that Catholicism is about the WORSHIP of MARY and far less about Jesus Christ!" The large body of what you wrote is below. Please Pilgrim.1 and other Christians, was Muhammad, by his Lord, through the Qur'an not CORRECT? From this singly statement of Pilgrim, it is demonstrated that the Catholic worship Mary the Mother of Jesus and the none Catholic, eg the Protestant worship Jesus, instead! In both cases, one worships the mother and the other the son. Both of you are Idol worshippers. Except you have a people instead of carvings or something you made with your own hands! Idolatry is not restricted to none speaking thing alone. The Dali Lamar is a good example! Quote from: Wordsmith on Yesterday at 03:21:31 PM |
| Islam › Re: Proove It If Quran Is Really God's Word And Not Man by olabowale(m): 4:18pm On Dec 19, 2007 |
Suratul Kahf (The Cave), Verses 1 through 8, quoted below is enough to through away any opposing arguments: 1. Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:If a mortal had penned this masterpiece, The Qur'an, certainly, he would have taken credit for it. No one from the rank of Muslims of Muhammad, starting from the Chief slave and servant himself, Prophet Muhammad and going down; all his companions, there is no one that claimed any credit for even a single letter! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Are There Any Former Muslims In Here? by olabowale(m): 3:52pm On Dec 19, 2007 |
@Leilah: Yeah I know that. I was divorced three times at once. talaq talaq talaq all at the same timeAs Salaamualaykum, Sister Leilah. And Id Mubarakah to you nd all. Listen, do you have information of your American Muslim former Husband? The man who talaq thrice and did not know that saying it a trillion times, to end a marriage , is just one single talaq. You have to marry a woman three times, before your sequential marriages and divorces, can be interjected with her marrying somebody else, and they have to consumate and divorce, willingly, before the one how had married and divorce her can ask her for fourth marriage. Sister, I live in the US. I am well known among NYC Muslim communities, and also in Boston. Maybe, this man, your former husband I can have a word or so with him. Some men victimise women, be they Muslim or not. Unfortunately, alot of Muslims wear the garment of belief only in Salah, and quickly takes it off after it. We are more hypocritical than believers! However, the termination of this divorce may be a test for you. Please do your best, regardless to get close to Allah. Make Wudu and pray, regardless of the constant distraction of Shaitan. InshaAllah, with your constant observance of Salah and trying to distant yourself from all that is evil and may dim the light of Iman, Allah Subuhanna Watahallah, will strengthen you and make your life easy. maybe, this new Catholic husband that you now have is a way for you to do good, for the pleasure of Allah. The man may become a Muslim, through you. Allah knows what no creation, including Jesus knows. No one who says that he/she believes will not have some test about faith. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Are There Any Former Muslims In Here? by olabowale(m): 10:30pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Leilah and Pilgrim.1: I'm not practising myself thats why I ask. Are you serious pilgrim? what made you leave islam and why? were you a born muslim?: Anyone could convert from one religion, into another. It is not a guarrantee that that a person will die in any particular religion, until death truly overtakes the person. A proof of that is my own mother, who just converted from Christianity, at almost 80 years old to Islam in the past few years. Today, she is preparing to celebrate the Id. Allah is capable to do all things. He sees the heart and the outside is less important regarding piety and God consciousness. 1. No offences to your convictions - but may God lead you to His saving truth.: I pray that God Almighty Allah in His infinite Wisdom do not bring to my life and the lifes of those who truly love Him and seek His Mercy, devils, neither in Jinn or human forms. AsI read the influence of your Christian friends over your conversion, I just could not but relate it to the situation of Abi Talib, the father of Ali and the Uncle of Our beloved Muhammad (as). Abi Talib cared for Muhammad all his life, and at death was asked by his nephew to just say Laa ilaha ilallah, so that Muhammad can used that singular statement to advocate for him, before Allah. Just about the moment he was to say it, Abu Jahal came in, and said to him: Are you going to abandone the religion of your forefathers for the religion of Muhammad? Based on this alone, he refused to say anything, even though he was dying. There was reason for him to refuse, except that God knew his heart, and truth was never in it. God knows the heart of all His creatures. Perhaps, another reason that spurred my hunger for the truth in Christianity was discovering two things: (a) the conversion of my Dad who was a staunch Muslim; (b) the fact that many Muslim apologists are not honest when dealing with issues.: A staunch muslim, though not a hardliner, will not be encouraging any offspring to seek answers that would help in conviction, except that the acutremens are readily in the family enviroment. Othrwise, while independently doing the search, without any guidance, anything could happen. There is no experiment that is performed that there are no intended conclusion. However, within the process of the experiment, there will be inferences and things observed. All of that lead one to a definite conclusion, conciding with the aim of this journey in experimentation. You know that Pilgrim.1. Pilgrim, there are bad muslims. But Islam itself is the best religion for mankind. And I am not a muslim apologist. There is something in Islam I did not like, that is the marriage between cousins. BUt as I look into it, I realise that Adam and his wife were even more than Brother and sister, or father and daughter. They were part of each other, sharing 100% genes. However their children married one anither, of different birth /pregnancy. Then their grand children, as cousins married! In time brother and sister marriage was cancelled. However, as cousins, it persisted, but no one is forced to do it, just like no one is forced to marry more than one, and there is no forced marriage and divorce is permissable, instead of misery or even worse death. In this cousin marriage, I observe that, we as humanss, have many groups of personalities, from the most shy, introvert to the most outspoken, extrovert. So everyone isgiven a leeway to get a mate that fit their personality. So a shy person may not be able to deal with the personality of an agressive stranger for a spouse. The same way the agressive person wants a stranger, who may even be very exotic, different from his/her own kind. With this finding I became very comfortable with islam. The religion allows me to be responsible for my own affairs, in the matter of salvation. This is the crock of the matter, Pilgrim. Islam allows me to have a direct one on one relationship with God. I am able to talk to Him and know that my failure or success is directly my responsibility, not that of some person, who has his own affairs to look after. I have in the Qur'an the complete blueprint, the dos and the don't dos of life! There is nothing hidden and everything is made plain. God Almighty challenge us to use our senses and our heart, with the mind and brain to come to proper and measured decision about Him. In all, I trust that your convictions will not be based merely on outward religious formalism. It is my genuine hope that you will find answers to the simple question of WHY even the Qur'an named only one person as THE Messiah! That Person is Jesus Christ. May He truly be your Saviour.:The messiah of the Children of Israel only. It has nothing to do with any one outside the house of Jacob. And it ended, immediately Muhammad became the Messenger and Prophet for all mankind! (a) the bold statements where the Popes openly said that Catholicism is about the WORSHIP of MARY and far less about Jesus Christ! Initially, I often made reference that Catholics should go and read their archives (as most of these materials are no longer availble on the internet, for some strange reason). I was challenged by several of them. . . until I gave them the references to go read first before I post them. Since that time, John Bunyan don wait for their replies so tey. . .!! I never read from many of them after then, but a few others asked me to NOT post them so that. . . so that Catholics will not forever lose faith altogether! I simply caved in and obliged them.: You worship Jesus son of Mary instead of his Creator, His God? (b) the connection between Islam and Catholicism. That one again was skittered by a whole lot of emailers who are in my good books. I made no promises to them, however, and sometime when I'm less busy Nairalanders will read them.: Pricee Pilgrim.1, please post it and let me have a go at it. If you are shy about it send it to me directly, you have my email and then I can dialogue with you on it. But I think it is all shakara oloje. Please leave me and Pilgrim alone. She and me know each other, so no problem. thanks pilgrim thats really interesting. I myself married a catholic man. I was born muslim but left islam about four years ago after an abusive aranged marriage by an imaam. I do believe but I just don't practice and I feel like I just do not have the faith I used to have.: My sister Leilah, there are peopl who do not know a good thing when they see it. Allah says in the Qur'an about men who leave a woman because of attraction; You dislike a thing that may be good for you? Maybe Allah will bless you by it. (I paraphrase). The point is that you have people who claim to be muslims and know little or nothing about Islam. I was one of them and am not out of the wood yet. However, your condition with the muslim, should not be any reason to abandone a religion that will bring you favor with your Creator. Allah says in Suratul Al Maidah that He completed His favor on mankind, by chosing Islam as the religion for mankind. Anyone who comes with any other religion/way, it will be unacceptable and be rejected, such a person will be among those who are doomed. If I am the only person on earth, who is a muslim, I am in the majority, because God Almighty Allah is on my side! Yes the imaam was just doing his job and was not his fault or islams fault. I was left with a baby and not a cent and divorced. Even the imaam said I did nothing wrong.: Many muslim marriages hit the rock because of flimsy excuses. Some people are force or presure into a matrimony, for whatever reason. In all of the reasons and ways i can think of, none is islamic, except if one truly goes into marriage and intend to remain in it, till death comes. However, divorce could occur and it is best, if the relationship is unsalvageable. The Prophet (as) says in an authentic hadith that people normally marry for 4 reasons; fame, fortune and family, but the bset reason to marry good and sound faith as in God consciousness and piety. Muslims do not get married for this great reason anymore. Instaed they vault for the esoteric reasons of fame, fortune and family as their top reason and relegate faith to the last or completely unimportant. Those who have fear of God will do right by others, but the rest may just carry the label and there is no belief in the heart. I pray for you Sister Lailah that God give you strength to carry on. But please think about your own soul. Someday, Pilgrim will be bold enough to step back into a faith that will save her from the punishment of God. So I pray for her family as well. I pray for mankind that whosoever has a mustard seed weight of belief inside the muscle with the chest cage, to receive the light of Guidance. You can get my email address from my profile. There is no permission for TEMPORARY wife in ISLAM, Kobojunkie. It was disallowed at the same time that eating of horse flesh is disallowed. Thats after the Victory over Makka. There is no greater peace anywhere than in Islam. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 7:25pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: Iyen I wo noo. I thought very highly of you, more than your trying to quote what you quoted above. You couldn't find anything to say that is good, or at least not offensive, that you have to go searching for that? Agunton to ba ba aya rin, a je igbe! Ma te lowo eni to fe ron e o. Pele pele o. I was just talking very fondly about you, on another thread, calling iya mi. Se bi iya se nse omo e ni yen? Pilgrim.1, o de da mi lowun. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: You Must Respond To This Or Remain Silent For Ever! by olabowale(m): 5:48pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Grouppoint and Pilgrim.1: To Pilgrim.1, I missed you and I hope that you are doing well? Now to the subject matter. Thank you for asking. So long as we maintain a civil discourse.: You have my commitment, I will be very civil. Am sure the Children of Israel, who we blanketed call Jews, study the OT more than you, yet, the major population, over 90%, will disagree with you, about trying to tie them to your New Testament, as indicated above. As I look at your assertion of creation, whereby God used the plural sense,'Us and Our,' as stated above, I wonder if God Himself did not nullify your thought of anyone with in the pronouns used, by the First Commandment itself! Further, I wonder if human blue bloods, eg the African and other royal family members do not make use of what is known as 'majestic pronouns?' I know the Queen of England uses it. If Humans, who are bound to be terminated use 'we, us, our, etc,' to honor themselves individually, I wonder how you could not imagine God to use even a set of stronger pronouns for Himself, if there were any, to clearly separate Himself, from His Creations? You will agree that The British system of Government has what is known as house of Lords. Are the member of that house truly Lords, in the real sense? Further, see how the masculine gender is used by God in the Old, New testaments and Qur'an. Is God a male as human male is? The answer is no, except that male gender is stronger than female gender. You will expect God to be strong, right? I will never think as a Muslim that God needs the permission of any of His creations to do anything, hence the fact that you may think that I will even bring the Angels to the picture of the majestic pronoun, is not correct. I summit to you that in the Qur'an, it is stated clearly that God alone made the decision to create, without asking anyone. He only informed the Angels that He is going to create viceroy for the earth, which was man, Adam being the first of its kind! Olabowale, et al.: I never have stated to you that Qur'an has its source of information, from the Old testament. Just because I said that the Old testament and the Qur'an agree that God is One, does not give you any support to your assertion, conclude that Qur'an is a child of the Old Testament! You as a Christian do not agree with everything in the Old testament, yet you have it in your Holy book. They, the Jews do not even have your New testament in their Holy book. It is you Christians, who are cozying up to them. We in Islam have our Holy Book, different and separate from either of you. You will only find pure Qur'an in Arabiya. Not in any other languages. What you see in any other languages are what the write/translator deemed it means, based on his/her own knowledge. Would it interest you to know that even in Islam, the term 'Holy Spirit' as misappropriated for angel Gabriel (Jibril) is never disparagingly spoken of as olabowale puns it above. If Islam considers it an insult to speak disrespectfully about the name "Muhammad", does the same thing stand when speaking about the "Holy Spirit" - or has Muhammad become even holier than Him?!?: My dear sister, Iya mi owon, and I say it as a term of endearment, I do not disrespect anything that is Godly. However, to the Onisongos, Aborisas, and indeed, all the idol worshippers, will just be as annoyed if one were to say something absolutely true about their deity; it is not a Thing, an Object, Deity worthy of any worship. You have spoken, yet you have said almost nothing, toward rationalization of 3 godhead in One God, from the Old Testament, and directly coming from the mouth of Jesus in the New Testament. The best anyone has presented are what Saul/Paul has used to coral people, especially the 'gentiles,' to coming to Christianity. They came, with the destructions of the laws; circumcision is no more compulsory, you can eat what you want, etc. You are now not responsible for your own actions, the death of an innocent man, who I now elevated to be God has taken up your sins and he alone is responsible for your salvation, as long as you believe this; his suffering, death on the cross as a curse on his soul (Galatians), the spilling of his blood and his resurrections, you will go to heaven! T ask you, as a rational man, does this make any sense, morally or religiously/spiritually? Where is the sense of personal responsibility, struggling to attain piety, seeking the face and mercy of your Creator? The most important thing that should come to mind here is this:: God said He is the soul Creator and One. Muhammad (as) said the same thing. Indeed, the revelation came to him in Makka, for 13 years, teaching this very singularly subject; There is no god, but He Allah Almighty alone. The next 10 years was to implement the legislations that govern Islam, yet there were still revelations that came to be added on the central theme: God is One, there is none beside Him. AS I was reading your last entry, Grouppoint, directed to Pilgrim.1 about the 'LORD said unto my Lord', and how the God breathe the Holy Spirit and gave life to man, etc, how the Holy spirit functioned the lives of Samsom, david, Joshua, Elijah, and how, as "Ruach,' in its Original translation, shows him to be a being rather than a force or power, I just can not, but wonder that you are a very cool headed guy, who deserves all the attention and respect you may need in this dialogue. Now then, you will notice that when you use LORD, denoting what every one will who believes that there is a God, you use all Capital letter. Then you use lower case letters, except the L for the lord in 'my Lord.' It clearly shows, that One is more powerful than the other. Then in the case of of the Holy Spirit, you show how it seems to be the errant functioning of 'LORD.' Then when you show us its true and original translation, as 'Ruach,' I was taken aback to how similar it is to 'Ruuh,' in the Qur'an, as a denoted to mean, the soul of man, when it is functioning in the body of a living person. You have clearly demonstrated it, in your statement of it being breathed into Adam, which instantly made him come alive from its formed shape made with mud/clay. Angel Gabrael is called Ruuh, Ruuh Qudus, and others in the Qur'an. So when you said Ruach, Ruuh came to mind, and you can see how similar they are. One Ruach is probably aramaic/ hebrew and the other Ruuh is clearly arabic. There is no way that we can then argue rhat Gabrael is in partnership with God, but only as an errand or a doer of what God commands him to do. He was given the adequate power to do those things. the little/small Lord could never be compared or equated to be a partner of God, the Bigger LORD. From your statement, the LORD said to my Lord, we see that LORD is talking in a position of BOSS over the Lord in the position of subordinate. Further, how restrictive is this word Lord in usage, since almost every Dick and Harry of England can be Knighted and be called Lord. Look at Branson. All you need is deep pocket. Lastly, we must not forget the house of Lords. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And Peace by olabowale(m): 3:23pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Nwando: [qouote]May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets." Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427 [Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha].[quote][/quote]Whats the relevance of your quote to this topic? Didn't Jesus call his apostles terrible names when asked for a sign from him? Didn't Jesus cursed the people in the general population, during his ministry? You are in Medicine, how long will it take for 'poison,' to work its way, for the intended effect in 1400 years ago? What you are trying to say in your quote is that the woman's husband was killed. But could not tell us how he was killed and where he was killed? I am going to just tell you that his killing was not unjust! It was probably in the battle. But the woman to have planned for a revenge speak volume. She would have gotten hold of the strongest of poison, yet Allah did not allow it to be effective on His Messenger. First, the revelation was not complete and secondly, the meat that was poisoned spoke to Muhammad that it, the meat was poisoned! However, Allah had put in place the process of the death of His beloved. So he had to chew this poison meat. When the revelation was complete and all the legislation that governs Islam was complete, what role do you expect to be performing, for let say from 63 years, which is when revelation stopped and he died soon after, to say 120 years? It would not have made sense to have had all these years without any revelation. The same condition applied to Moses, and also Jesus. When the mission of each was completed, God removed them, one by death and the other by raising him up to Himself! Nwando, thank God I don't wager. You would have lost plenty. lol. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Men And Women Don't Pray Together In The Mosque. Why? by olabowale(m): 3:02pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Cgift: Muhammad (as) only had 11, in his second marriage. But in his first marriage, it was One. However she died. In time he remarried. The prophet was a special man. His actions were a means of legislature for us. It is through his action, that i know that i can marry a divorce, widowed, older, younger, Christian, Jew and more than woman. I can also remarry, and enjoy a married life again, after the end of any. Even though he was permitted more than me, at 11, a man who is rekless, yet a muslim, could easily surpass the 11, in a short period of time! You do the calculation yourself. You ask if I can do more than 4? The answer is yes, but not in one period of marriage. Muslims are not to marry with the intention of devorcing. But devorce can occur, but it never should be predetermined even before going into the Marriage. Anyone who does that is performing adultery, for as long as the marriage does exist! As for my own libido, I fast to curb it. You should, too. It is good for you. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 2:47pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Nwando: All this cock and bull story to tell us why a man would flog his own son to death in the name of allah.I went to your many websites, and i was searching to find something concrete, to indicate an injunction for 'honor killing,' in Qur'an and hadith, i came up with zero. Your instructor, the Persian or Arab author, could not make the link, regardless of how much he tried. I am sure that if Sharia were to be enacted all over Nigeria, all those Politiians, who are looters of the nation's wealth, from the first of them, to the last of them,regardless of ethnicity and public status, would have lost a hand or both hands. Inshort, the pilaging of the people's treasury, would not have go on these many decades, without a noticeable break in this shameful practise. Why do I have to be bundled up and shipped like a 'cargo,' to Afghanistan, when I am a full blooded Nigerian. I beg lets hear word. If you say ship me to Nigeria, then you will be making sense! Haba, Nigeria is large enough for me to live. I can anywhere and relate to the peole. Your problem is this, anything you do not disagree with, you find it difficult to allow others to have a different opinion that yours. As I do not agree with 'Honor Killing,' it is based on the fact that God does not sanction it as a commandment from Him. God allows and permits repentance. I have nieces who are very rebellious, and also nephews who are just as hard nosed. However, adultery and fornication and people of lut, God gave a direct Commandment! Afterall, he sent Angels to destroy the people of Lut. It is written in the Bible, that you claim to be your Holy Book. What do you say about that, Mrs? Those who kill their family members are just protecting their false family honor. There is no family honor in Islam. If is family honor, Muhammad's family would have been the first to enjoy it. You have look at family honor at its worst, then we should look at it at its best. Muhammad's family would not have become so poor that they sometimes did not have food to it. After the death of the prophet, his beloved Fatima, was not given any charity, even for one time! Who could have had more honor among the Muslims than her and her bloodline? None. Nwando, I have a pretty good feeling that you will now mount an effort to dispute me, in what i have just said. I just have a hunch about it. None of those Muhammad ordered to Kill was based on family honor, but only as punishment for committing Zina, while each have a legal partner. There were rules that governed such punishment. It was not just get im, rope im and kill im! Umar ibn Khattab who lashed his son, did so obeying God. And God did not say beat until death occurs! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christians: You Must Respond To This Or Remain Silent For Ever! by olabowale(m): 1:39pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Grouppoint: God says, you shall have no other God before me. etc.Please shed some light how God of the Old testament, for many centuries, kept telling us about Him being One. Then all of a sudden in the New Testament with Jesus He told us he is a Combination of Himself, Christ and Holy spirit. Then He went back, changing His mind again to tell Muhammad, only less that 700 years after He told it in the New Testament, that He was 3 in 1, that He is One God again? Enough already, Grouppoint! It is either God never said what you attributed to Him, in the New Testament, thereby I summit to you that the author of such horrible statement about God, in your New Testament is a liar. Or that your God does not know how to have firm control over His own affairs. Afterall, 1/3 of that godhead was crucified, according to the New testament. It will therefore remained a 2/3 of 3 godhead! By the way, what role is this perceive HolySpirit chap playing, apart from being a supposed part of 3 that witness in heaven? Jesus role is stronger that his role, it seems. Even Jesus seemed to have absorbed all the essential role of the third part, which seems to be constant always! Please explain, Grouppoint. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Teacher Arrested In Sudan Over A Bear Named Muhammad. by olabowale(m): 1:20pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Nwando: My dear the strength of one man is all I need.You brought it up dear lady. But I thought you are diehard romantic, no? lol. But even with your career, you still want fulfillment? Further, this big career, is carrying a final tag, a goal which is known as retirement. Some people retire, for the first time as early as say between late 20s and 40s, because they archieved success! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: God,Allah Do We All Serve Same God? by olabowale(m): 1:05pm On Dec 18, 2007 |
@Alexis: Thank you for handing the floor over to me. But fake as disingenuos flattery will earn you no points with me. The first rule is that there is no way you, as a non Arab can be a better Arab linguist/scholar that the Arabs! Secondly, Qur'an is the standard of which Arab language, grammar, etc are measured. That includes the Arab Bible. So based on this, your understanding of anything Arabic, will have to be based on its ranking with the Qur'anic Arabic. Let me make it very elementary for you: In Bahia, Brasil (Brazil), Yoruba is spoken. Could their Yoruba be purer than the Yoruba spoken in the Western part of Nigeria? No, it will be impossible! The Yorubas say: A ji se bi Yoruba lan ri, Yoruba o nji se bi eni kon. Fela Anikulapo said in one of his yappies; English is Yoruba badly spoken (This one is to make you relax, so that you can listen, attentively)! Does asking an arab what "Allah" means answer the question? Most muslims recite the koran, they don't READ it to understand. Since they don't read it, christians will help them read it and where we see things that need to be addressed, we will present them to muslims to answer, where they can't, we will call on history to answer. They sit at their mullahs feet and accept anything and everything he says. We are not zombies olabowale, we are free thinking humans that should judge situations and make informed decisions, something that most muslims are scared to do. I don't need to write any publication house in Qatar to find out who 'Allah' is. To find out, I need to go to the authoritative source for all muslims - 'the koran' or 'quran'Iqra, the first word revealed to Muhammad (as), means proclaim to him. Since Muhammad did not know how to read anyway, it could also mean recite to him. But to the rest of the muslims and arabs, regardless of religion, it also mean read. So the Qur'an, unlike your narrow defination of what the muslims do, is read, recited and proclaimed when there is sermon, ministrial effort, etc. Yes most Muslims recite the Qur'an, because the legislation and explanation of it is been preserved, in tafsir, hadith, sunnah, sirah and other sort of school of knowledge. For example, the issue of Riba (interest), is illustrated by it having 72 levels. The lowest level of which it is in offense is on the same level with a man who have sex with his own mother! If you hear this, and it was passed down from generation directly, from Muhammad, without a break in chain of narration,what is there for you to try to independently think about? You want to have your own explanation about it, whereby you permit the impermissable? Unfortunately, you do not know that the first organised University by mankind, which is still in existence is the Islamic University Al Ahza in Egypt. All other colleges of higher learning, around the world are modelled after this Islamic institution. So much for not being independent thinker and just being a Zombie. The Muslim Arabs wrote about Allah of preIslamic era, to mean exactly the Allah of Islam, courtesy of Arabic scholar, his excellency Alexis! Why would the Muslims, controlling the whole of Arab, including its language, the best of its culture, that they will foolishly exposed their God to you and people like you, if that God is exactly the ordinary God or equivalent to the idol god of the Arabs, before Islam of Muhammad? Yet the first thing they did when they entered Makka as victors, without raising a single sword, was to destroy all the 360 Idols in the ka'aba! Thes muslim pagans, the nerves of them, destroying their own gods! I am laughing and rolling on the floor. So in one surah, the quran declares it was angel gabriel and in another surah when it mention 'angels' were given the quran you decided to add other angels with gabriel,lol. Unfortunately, I am at work and I don't have my quran with me. I will show you the surah I am referring to in no way referred to angel gabriel when it mentioned 'angels' my friend, it if had did - the all knowing Allah should have known and mentioned it clearly?Alexis knows better than Allah! You need to read surah Al Maidah and see what the condition of Isa bin Mariam will be in the day of Judgement! He will be questioned in the front of mankind, by his Lord. So if your god Jesus will be questioned, you can imagine how off the straight path you are, to be analysing God Almighty Allah. I am free of your deeds, Alex. Please bring up the verses about Angels and let us look into your African Christian understanding Arabic Islam textbooks and grammar! [quote[So 'holy spirit' is now called angel gabriel in the quran abi or angel gabriel is called 'holy spirit' abi? The term 'holy spirit' and an 'angel' are two different entities olabowale, that is why they have names to describe them. This cheap attempt of equating angel gabriel and some holy spirit is at best a deceitful attempt. So, I am to believe where ever I see 'holy spirit' in the quran, it means angel gabriel or vice-versa. You will have to try harder Alhaji. Perhaps the ice-storm in the US is chilling your brains, clearly - you are not using them. The term 'one mightly in power' can not be ascribed to an angel. Angels are messengers and other times act as guardians my friend. That description suits a deity or a god, so it is hard to prove that 'one mighty in power' as mention in that surah was angel gabriel. You still never grind the axe oh alhaji. [/quote]How can a Yoruba christian be able to be an expert on Arab Islamic materials? How long you have been alive again, Alexis? Jibril is also called Ruuh Qudus! Also called Ruuh!, and other praising names. Until you can provide your proofs, the matter is considered settled. Try your Christian propaganda websites, you may not have a supporter on this one! You have to wake up pretty early to argue this one!Let me just play with (1). el el-yone -The Most High God, according to you. But first, you said El is a name taht is translated as God". Therefore your el el yone will be god god yone! Okay let me write it in capital to make your heart at peace: God God-yone. How then do you get this Elyon to become 'Most High,' when El means God according to you? Alexis, you see how ridiculous your argument is? If you can argue to support your own defination of your own God, how can you ford a deep water of Islam, which will drown you so quickly before you can yell 'reaptide.' Alexis, I will leave this segment alone because, I may just spend all evening disecting your El Elyon as 'the most exalted God, (Psa 57;2)' You are making me laugh. And today is Hajj, itself! I can't play around. 2. (el shad-di') - All-Sufficient One, Lord God AlmightyHave you heard of the ninety nine names of Allah? How many do you have in Judaism and Christendom? Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Muhammad came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact (muslims like you). But history is not on your side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.Alexis, to properly response to you, I have to take you back as far as father Ibrahim time in Iraq. This is where we have to begin. Since Ibrahim was the father of of the Arabs, through his first son, Ismail, who was truly the only son, in all the 13 years before his younger brother Isiaq was born. We see from this event, that Yahweh, Judaism could not have existed, as name of God to an Iraqi citizen stateman, from Ur. Neither as a religion nor as an ethnic identity. The truth is that the two elements came to being, at a later date, but not before the exodus event out of Egypt, under Moses! By the way, the religion of Moses was not Judaism. But I will leave that for another topic! Definitely, Jew as an ethnic identity, came after the brother of Joseph, Judah a son of Jacob, who was the son of Isaic, who was the younger son of but never was the only son of Ibrahim! So, since the children of Judah could be identified by their geneology as the Jew, within the 12 tribes of Israel, then there are 5 generation between Ibrahim and the first set of people that could be called Jews, the descendants of Judah, who was a Child of Israel, who was a Child of Isiaq, who was a child of great, great, grandfather Ibrahim! Allah declared in the Qur'an that Ibrahim was not a Jew and not a Christian, he was a one who negated all kind of associating in worship (Hanifan), who is a muslim (bowing his will in obedience), to One true God! Now, the Muslims say that Ibrahim and his only son Ismail rebuilt the Ka'aba after the flood of Noah. If you disagree, please prove me wrong! Did Ibrahim, who was the father, hence the leader, between the two, since his son was not more than 20 years at best at this time, built this structure to worship any idol? The answer is NO! If you recall, it was the great event of Idol destruction which Ibrahim undertook, that sent him packing out of Iraq! Ibrahim, therefore could not have destroyed many idols and then start worshipping any when he left the idolaters of Ur, Iraq! Whatever the reason that Ibrahim had in building the Ka'aba, it would never have been for any idol sanctuary or worship! It is Ibrahim who called mankind, under the commandment of Allah The God to Hajj. Up to this time, Allah of Ibrahim was in no way associated with any Idol. Abi Alexis? There was no Idol in Ka'aba of Ibrahim, o sha de ron ti, abi? There is no report also that Ismail worshipped Idol! So any idol in the Ka'aba must have arrived after Ismail. It is save to assume also that he probably instructed his children, who would be in the same level of heritage with Ibrahim as Jacob is, not to worship anything except the God that Ibrahim, he Ismail worshipped. They, the children would have also passed on this injuction down to their own offsprings, just like Jacob did with his own 12 sons (and the daughters which were never mentioned). We see how great the value of women were with the Jews and the Christians. Alexis, oro lo boro wa o. I was not going there, but you just had to force my hands with your scholarly misfiring! We know that in all the generations, between Joseph's glorious presence in Egypt, and the exodus of the Children of Israel out of it, under Moses, would have to be many hundreds of years! We know that there was nothing called Yahweh/Jehovah, etc, up to the time the Bible was reporting that Moses got them to the wilderness, where he was instructed the process of worship, and God revealing His name to them at that time! In the maintime, the branch of Ismail, was blotted out of the history of the descendant of Ibrahiim, but at least they were flourishing, in the desert! Contrary to your statement, there were people in Yemen and Iraq (the home country of Ibrahim, Lut, before the great migration), and in other places. We also noticed that Ibrahim met people in Jerusalem when he arrived there and of course his journey to Egypt, was not a journey to a desolated place! The introduction, of idol to the Ka'aba was fully reported in the Sunnan/Hadith, Sirah of the prophet and Tafsir of Qur'an. You just have to research it on your own, since you are going to teach us our religion, which you know nothing about! Your finding out that part of preIslamic Arab history will be a good start to enlightening your heart. Ismail branch of Ibrahim's bloodline did not speak the same language as Isiaq branch! But they worship One Supreme God, based on the instruction of Ibrahim alone. What was the name of that God, Alexis? Do you know it? I submit to you that God was called Allah! If you have a proof that I am incorrect, please present it and do not hesitate to do so! When idol was introduced to ka'aba, it must have been that the true faith in One God which was practiced by the many generation of the Children of Ismail branch of the Ibrahim was eroding until it finally and completely eroded before Muhammad came to be the only Prophet/Messenger raised from this branch. It is just like the case of the Children of Israel, who were saved from the hardship of Pharaoh and Egypt, yet, they built a 'golden calf,' the moment that Moses did not return as quickly, as he used to do before! Yet, these Children of israel witnessed, how God Almighty performed tremendous destructions on Pharaoh and his army, and other nations they encountered in the wilderness. Yet, they were disbelieving, even up to the point that God brought up Jesus son of Mary. And Alexis, how many of them were believers in him and followed his instruction to worship God Almighty? Yet you are comparing them to a people that never had such lavishness of one prophet succeeding another, in so many generations. The process of the 360 idols in Ka'aba alone, not counting other Arab societies, eg Taif, must have started some hundreds of years after Ismail had died!What did the Children of Israel called their golden calf? The same name they were instructed to call God the Almighty! There is no difference in the Children of Israel's idolatory action, even though it was for just a short period of time, because Moses was present among them, and the action of the children of Ismail, which had no single prophet and only ended when Islam became the official religion of the land! You are right that there was hajj in the preislamic arab. But you did not know that the children of Isiaq used to make this hajj, until idol(s) became permanent in the ka'aba! It has been reported that Prophet Solomon made this hajj, as commanded by God on Ibrahim. This is your second assignment Alexis! Finally, when Islam came to Muhammad, from the first revelation, if Allah was not the proper name of GOD the Almighty, Allah Himself, Who says in Surah Ahzab that He is not shy, would have instructed 'Ruuh Qudus,' who brought revelation to Muhammad for 23 years to change the name, to the peoper name which was not in used by the preIslamic Arabs! But wait, Muhammad went on a night journey known as Isra wa Miraj. In heaven when he spoke directly to his Lord, definitely, he would have instructed to change it to the 'proper name,' if that was not 'Allah!' In all your arguments, it is as if the Arab penisula was a gulf dividing your heart from your soul. They do not agree to the truth that you are seeing! Alexis, ma duro ni ibi yi. If you have anything to say about this, please say it. Let the people of Nairaland make their own 'educated' and disinterested judgement. You as a Yoruba man do not know enough about the history of the Yorubas, yet, you are going to educate the Muslims about the meaning of Allah of Al Islam, connecting it to Allah of preIslam? Ko ye mi o. Bo ya mi o ka nko to ko dara dara ni. Mi o a kuku le ka ede Keferi, ti kiriyo to nso. Mi o le kaa oba me ta ni ikon! Abeg, ol girl Nwando, you see how Allah brings knowledge to His slave, so that I can slice and dice what Alexis put together with sticks and spit? Tell him that all he wrote was ebonic compared to proper English! Alexis, nice hearing from you again. Laa ilaha Ilallah, Muhammadanr Rasulullah. Yeah right!, alhaji - this is a simple task, just prove that the Allah of pre-islamic arabia is different from the Allah that muhammed brought. They are the same deities, the mode of worship, the rites, the travelling to mecca and praying 5 times a day was done thousands of years before the advent of muhammed islam.Thank you, thank you Alexis; You've heard Fela's record Jeun Ko ku, where he said,'i never talk finish?' I am going to finish with you by saying that if you have any proof that the daily Salah, Jumu'ah salah and Hajj that the preIslamic Arab perform, is exactly the same that the Muslims of Muhammad perform please bring it to Mankind! For sure, their salah, if there is any will be different, because the Wudu, Ahdan, Iqamah, Quiyan, ruku and sajdah, all in Islamic daily and Jumuah salah, Qur'an came about with the Prophethood of Muhammad, Jumuah is a combination of Qur'an and hadith and salah, Hajj is a combination of Arafah, which is today by the way, other rites and Umrah, which includes the Masjid Al Nawawi, in Madina! Every which way, Alexis, your information will be inadequate! I follow your advise, There is no story here! I give the floor back to you sir, or any of your associates, in religion, or any non Muslims who has anything tangible to contribute, with honesty and without bold face lies. E pele sir. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Teacher Arrested In Sudan Over A Bear Named Muhammad. by olabowale(m): 7:46pm On Dec 17, 2007 |
@Nwando: O ku se. I wo sisi yi. You know more Yoruba than me and there is no point pretending that you do not know. First, the hadith you quoted, above says 11 women, but just have to double it by the usual Christian system multiplication or addition! The same system that you employ to get to 3 heads of god for 1 GOD! So ri nkon ti mo nse fun e? Have you forgotten to delve into the life of Muhammad and remember his earlier years? Is there a man in Arabia at that time that could remain a virgin until he was 25 and then marry a 2 twice married and 15 years older for a first wife? Has it ever happened in Nigeria or the whole of Africa or even your now new home, the dubbed 'God's own country?' Again Muhammad almost never married after Khadijah. Until the injuction came from The Merciful, to do so! Muhammad never forgot this woman. You heard it from the mouth of the only virgin that he married, Aisha! Aisha was even jealous of how Khadijah was remembered, always by Muhammad. Read the hadith. Muhammad never took any woman who offered herself to him! Tell me is there a man that has that quality? About his strenght of 30 men, would you not love even 10% of it for your husband? Wouldn't you want your husband to have the strength of 3 men? Please be sincere and fall in line with your Jilbab and take a shahada, with your husband. Let him wear a goatie first and see the difference from the almost girlie smooth face. You will then know that you have a situation with a real man by the time he grows a full mane. And as to the condition of marriage with Muhammad, read Surah Ahzah. The case of the Messenger of Allah is different from that of the general muslims. God said to him in that Surah he can not even marry any one else after he God set a limit for him. It simply means that if all of the women were to have died, he would be permissible to marry anyone! It is God who knows and no one else. |
| Islam › Re: How Can Islam Be A Religion Of Peace ? by olabowale(m): 7:18pm On Dec 17, 2007 |
Finally, I can deal with you in your desired language. Please respond. It is Allahu Akbar! |
| Islam › Re: How Can Islam Be A Religion Of Peace ? by olabowale(m): 5:50pm On Dec 17, 2007 |
Olabowale, you can't sit there telling us about what you don't know. You constantly leave yourself open to ridicule anytime you try so hard to force christianity into the mould of islam. Perhaps it is a thing of shame for your non-existent "prophets" or those u borrowed from the bible to sufer such humiliating death but the bible tells me - Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:You are defending Jesus son of Mary, a Prophet and Messenger, with Galatians? A material written by Saul/Paul or his supporter(s). A fellow or group who Jesus never knew, turning all that Jesus and Moses stood for over its head! I do not have to force Christianity into the mould of Islm. Truth stands clearly and separate from falsehood. God ways is the same way, always! We should not forget that it was after Jesus ascended that a new brand of the messege of Jesus arose, from Paul. But from your Galatians, above, you are telling me that your 'God' died in order that you be redeemed from acurse of the law. The law of a prophet is stronger to the point that your 'God' had to die to ransome you? Tell me, who is stronger, between this prophet and your God? A clearly thinking mind, with wisdom, will say it is the prophet! If, as muslims, we do not worship such a powerful Prophet, and we worship his Lord, then our Lord definately has to be stronger than your 'God' who had to die in order you be be allowed to shunt a set of laws! Tell me, after all of this death, is there any part of the laws that is/are still relevant? Is the first commandment now abrogated, rendered left with the Jews and the Muslims who reinstate in their Qur'an. Simply because Muhammad said so? Christ's death and resurrection had thousands of witnesses who also penned it down for our edification . . . where are the witnesses to islam's denial?From your above quote Jesus death which was a curse on his soul is what you are hanging your whole salvation upon! It shameful that you could actually utter from your own mouth that your'God's soul is cursed!' Evidently, the Muslims believe that Jesus did not die as the Jews had planned. It is Muhammad and his followers that you Christians and the jews hold a great debt of gratitude. Why, for the Christians, Qur'an honored their 'God' and secured his person and soul from the peril that the Jews had hoped he had suffered. The Qur'an extracated and serve as a written alibi that Jesus did not die, in the hand of the Jews, when the time comes that the Christians want a real honest to goodness revenge for the 'death' of their 'God!' The witnesses to Islamic denial of the death of Jesus, is God Almighty Himself, who sent Jesus as a Messenger! God is enough as a witness! I further provide you that the Angels of god are also witnesses, Isa bin Marianm himself is a witness and so are all the other prophets of Allah, Muhammad and all who believe him, the Muslims are witnesses. Qur'an itself is a written witness. How much more do you want? I guess the voice is the voice of Jacob, but I think the body is that of Essau! Thats a joke to tell you that i recognise you. I love you always. Either you did not understand my statements or u are dishonestly trying not to. Here is what i initially said . . . There have been several copies of the books of the bible found at various places and at different time periods . . . NOT ONE of those books has been found to be even subtly different from the bible we carry around.So the 1952 Bible is not a real Bible, uh? Those read it and used it for their worship are not real Christians? What about the Roman catholics and all the orthodox sects? I will not touch up on the latter day saints and the J Witnesses! My main man, Tiger, you will have narrow christianity to one man on bible befor you can even begin to make sense on this one. Then as a lion myself, i just have to bite harder. You have not seen the original, and is there anything original in the most ancient that is many hundreds of years after the fact? In diffrent language? You make me laugh in your responses on the corruptions of the Bible and the Hatman decree. It shows that you still have that zeng in you, but I notice the fire is a little bit down. The hatman decree says that those who are God conscious will be saved, without tasting Hellfire. That is different from your bllanketed statement to the contrary. You know you did not tell the truth and you ain't gonna rattle me. Am too cool for that. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Men And Women Don't Pray Together In The Mosque. Why? by olabowale(m): 1:06pm On Dec 17, 2007 |
@Greyfox: By Allah, you ain't got real and serious money! Maybe around little petty traders, yes! But around movers and shakers, you do not! I hope you understand. I do not know where you live; if is in the USA, and you know anything about it, because there are plenty of citizens, who do not know anything about the nature of the governance of the USA. Each state has some form of autonomy, under the republic; therefore, the law of concerning the age of consent is different, from one state to another. Some state is as low as 14 years while the highest is 17 years! I will not not tell which state is which. This is something you will have to find out yourself. In Africa and indeed, the so called 3rd world and developing world, Asia, and eventhe south and central Americas and the Caribbeans, there is no madness like what we have in the West, about any standardised age of consent! A person reaches puberty and if such a one is eager to be married, then I have no problem with it. For example, African women are for the most part interested in older men. I do not expect you to know anything about that because of your pattern of speech. African women are more seasoned and equipped by upbring to handle marriage life than the women in the West, who may just be too juvenile and truly immature and ill equipped, even for several years more. Yet the women from the West may begin to engage in sex earlier than the African woman. That is even in this present day! Now take your back to the past, instead of the Jamie Foxx's back to the future of about 20 years ago; 1400 years ago, the standard of relationship is different that today. People were not raised on Gerber foods. The case of Aisha of Muhammad, is different from the case of your neighborhood girls, calling themselves women! God Almighty created Aisha for the purpose that Aisha served. However, you are too naive to see the purpose, and you never queried the purpose served by Mary the mother of Jesus! A young woman who became pregnant at the end of her very first menstruation. I ask you and those who have problem with Muhammad, to tell us if you know how old was Aisha her father became a Muslim. Thats a very simple question. You can't even do that for your own knowledge. While you are it, you should find out how soon did her father enter Islam, when Muhammad received the very first 5 verses of the Qur'anic revelation. Thats where your answer lies. You can also do yourself a favor by getting a profile of a pedophile from your local enforcement agency, to know if Muhammad exhibit any trait of it! You need to get educated and do not bury your head in the sand. My answer is that Muhammad is not a pedophile. |
| Islam › Re: How Can Islam Be A Religion Of Peace ? by olabowale(m): 5:07am On Dec 17, 2007 |
PTH: |
| Islam › Re: These Muslims Are Heartless by olabowale(m): 3:53pm On Dec 16, 2007 |
SysUser: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 7:04am On Dec 16, 2007 |
@Nwando: Thanks for the lecture on the other thread, about NL entry methodology. Wish you are here to teach me! lol. This statement will get those fibbled minds going a thousand miles per nanosecond! I deliberately enter it to confuse them. Keep them guessing! Suya, you said? I do not know that Yoruba people are expert on Suya making or that we eat humans! In either cases, am not a cook and Islam forbids me of some flesh. I am sure human flesh is on that list! And the Yorubas and Islam do not recommend your Honor killing.' a thread you struggled to engineer, in your quest to 'bring down' Islam due to your hatred! Now, we can rest easy, since I had just subtly answered your question in this entry. Again, there is no Honor Killing in Islam. Just like there is no Gambling in Islam, yet a good number of the wealthy Arabs spend sizeable fortunes in Monte Carlo, etc. Just as there is no Zina in Islam, a good portion of the wealthy get involved in it! Just as there is no alcoholic drinks in Islam, under normal circumstances, many still do it. Any surprises? Not really. But says in the Glorious Qur'an that the Believers should save themselves and their family from the fire of Hell, whose fuel will be Stone, Jinn and mankind! Nwando, where do you fit in and what line are you on, Paradise with the Believing Muslims/Mumiinu or Hellfire with the Disbelieving people, comprising all of the other religions? Think about it! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 10:32pm On Dec 15, 2007 |
@D-reloaded: Mo wa je egbe e ni? Wale and Wole are different! Further if you read before you write, you will know that I am only responding to the one who wrote the Yoruba sermon! Egbe isu ko ni Iyon. I could be on NLand, but that does not give you the audacity to call me whatever comes to your mouth. Sometimes I am busy and I can't spent all day on NL. I have responsibilities! Until I overstep my boundary with you, there is no reason for you to disrespect me. Kelegbe me gbe. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Islam And "honour Killings" by olabowale(m): 9:58pm On Dec 15, 2007 |
@D_reloaded: Oniranu? Where did you find him? Se eni lo fi nta yin? You need to explain yourself! Good job ignoring my questions olabowole, keep running your mouth with insults in Yoruba and dodging the real problem. Oniranu My name is Olabowale. At least you could have been able to get that name, since you misfired on who you call Oniranu! I definitely does not qualify as you are labelling me. Maybe you need to explain yourself. I am being a Yoruba gentleman now. E mi o mo ibi ti oti oniranu e o. If you can not expalin yourself, then you need to retrack your statement! |
are going to Hell. Rigtheousness is not the same as being MORAL.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 (of 214 pages)