₦airaland Forum

@Defidixone: If I have not opened myself up to good knowledge, beyond the 4 walls of the classrooms, I would not be the person I am today. Thanks to my Creator, for the limited knowledge that He gave me, already. I will still pray to Him for more knowledge and wisdom. But you sir, in whatever you think you are, is also limited in knowledge. You may tell us otherwise. And it will open you up to continue to go against Jesus, for even he had no knowledge of the exact hour!

I think you need to learn how to make a presentation in a logical manner. Mr.Olabowale. Open your self to knowledge it is power.
I will try to repond briefly to help you provide an answer to the above question even though they are not really addressed to you. Up to the time of Usman dan Fodio what were the symbols of Islam. "White banners" is not peculiar to Islam it symbolises Victory in the war. So that was before Muhammad was born. Go find out about that.
shallom!

A Nigerian, who could not spell another Nigerian man's name properly, even though he lives in the area of the country where the name is traditionally borne, by can write Hebrew word properly. It shows your lack of proper prioritising! Uthman dan Fodio, a Fulani predecessor of mine in Islam, is not the complete embodiment of Islam! Your lack of knowledge is coming through now. Everything about Islam to you Nigerian Christians is Hausa/Fulani! Poor knowledge of this noble faith. Islam is more than that and the Saudi can not even contain it! Muhammad is the 100% of Islam, then you have a reduction in purity thereafter, starting from his companions, both men and women, who were good, but yet not holding the office of prophethood! I am a Muslim, you are a Keferi and you are telling about a religion that my forefathers practices and then me, without a break in the several generations? I doubt if you know anything about nothing! So it is better to leave you alone. You spoke about Symbol and all of a sudden you abandone it. It shows how unstable you are in your thinking and belief. Everything is like the flavor of the month to you.

@Defidixone: I am amazed about your statement, concerning Islam, yet you want be to just be idle and not say anything? You forget that am a Muslim, regardless of my using a Yoruba name? I also have a Muslim name. But thats beside the point.

Olabawole! abi wetin be your name. You be special case in this forum please let Babs decide for himself.

: In Islam, the whole Muslim ummah is a single body. When one part is sick, the whole body feel seek and feel the pain. Babs and me worship the same Lord while you have three heads of personality God.  We have the same Angels, while you have Lucifer. We have the beliefs in the same Books Al Qur'an while you believe in Watered down Bible. We have the same prophets, while you believe some and reject at least one or more. Babs had already decided by rejecting your Kafr live. And my name is Olabowale!

@Dafidixone:

Only if you will tell me the first symbols of Islam before Crescent and Start.  Also let me know if Momodu was the person that gave your current symbol try to quote the verse in the quran to back your proofs.  
Then i will tell you where Cross became the symbol of christianity in the Bible.
Ok?
You will see that Pilgrim1 is always acting under the guide of Holy spirit before answering questions here!  It is worth of emulation

: IN any case, at lease Muhammad (as), is what I believed you were intending to write, right? At least, he was a Muslim. He prayed every prayer that you find the Muslims praying today! The five Salawat. The Sunnahs of every one of them. He made Tahajjud (the night prayers, from the time he became a prophet, to the end of his life. If he missed any night, it has been the will of his Lord that it was so, so that the conpanions and the later generations, can know that this is a possible condition). He fasted, gave Zakat and Sadaqah, made hajj and Umrah. He was the first from his brand of Islam, as it is a completed Islam to believe in ONE SINGULARLY LORD OF ALL CREATIONS!

The other side is Christianity and its relationship with Jesus. There is none! I need not give you the blow by blow. I already gave you a neck shot, and that should do it.  

Al Qur'an does not have to provide any information about symbols for Islam. The sunnah takes care of it. Sunnah/Hadith is the material of explaining Qur'an. The flag of Islam is White. Symbol and flag are two different things. Whats the flag of Christianity? Whats the symbol of Christianity?

If holy spirit is served up to those who merely say that they are Christians like free candies at a Children birthday parties, then no wonder you see everyone under its influence! But this holy spirit goes in and out of a person, like the same way a dying person goes in and out of consciousness? Why can't the holy spirit stick or just not come at all? You ain't got no holy spirit, no how! And thats why you have some of your Christian folks have good manners sometimes, and at another time terrible manners! It is the nature of man to go in and out of great quality sometimes and into not so great quality at another time. Even Shinto, Hindu, and others, including the aborisha of Ijebuland have the same phenomena.

You are not different than them. Take responsibility for your own action, be it good or bad and leave the holy spirit out of it. Maybe your holy spirit is actually Shaitan, because it does excite you to doing the greatest evil; saying that you have three persons in God! That is multiple personality and the medical people call that schizophrenia personality.

@Defidixone: Born again to what, disbelieving? Nay, man! You wanna be born again, go right ahead. Its your skin that will be burnt to smitterings. Leave the forebearing servants/slaves of Allah the Almighty Creator out of it! When you are dying and your whole live will be in a flash in front of you and you willalso come to realise that Jesus was no more than an apostle of his Creator, Allah the Almighty! But your change of mind will be too late, because the reality is already set and it is firm. Just like the case of Pharaoh, changing his mind to believing that there is a True One God!

@Dafidixone: How can you inject God into a thing that has so much conflicting dynamics, on a singular subject? Yet, the conflicting trend is almost the expected viewpoints in your Book. It is not a matter of one or two /subjects/occasions/places. Even one place is one too many. Just because you call it God inspired does not mean it is God inspired. You make the statement to justify your believing in it. It is the same way that you tag God to be operation on three persons; the father, the son and the ghost! Your idea and it is not true, just because you said it.

Finally my name is Olabowale, and not Adebowale. However if that what hit your fancy, continue with it. We all know that it ain't ya fault. You can not help it, but to change Ola to Ade. Just the same way you changed God Almighty to father almighty, son/Jesus almighty and ghost almighty!

@Dafidixone: Please my man, be for real! Someday you will grow old and wither. You will then die off. When you are dying and suddenly you see that Jesus is just a prophet and nothing more, will you have any excuse for your refusal to take this discussion seriously? Thank God that Bab787 is here to help all of us. The best of persons who will enter heavens/paradise will not be the likes of Albert Einstein. No it will be the likes of those people who are not arrogant and proud to obey the commandment and worship God with all the soul and heart, in sincerity.

Please let us all grow up and introspectively reflect and search our hearts and ask God Almighty for guidance and mercy so that we may worship and obey Him in the way He prescribes. And not in our own way or any way that He does not ordain for us.

@Dorcasde: Shin ha.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He brought the message of salvation to mankind so that we could find our path back home. For him to fulfill on this earth, He had to be in flesh and blood. He suffered death on the cross because He stood firm that he was the Son of God and the Bringer of Truth, thereby putting a seal on His Word. Therefore, he fulfilled! On the contrary, denying His mission in the face of death would have meant victory to the darkness. The greatest prayer of intercession ever, was the one Jesus said on the cross, ‘Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.’ Why interceding if He was meant to be sacrificed for the sins of humanity?

: Listen sister, God has no son or daughter or father or mother! So Jesus son of Virgin Mary is no son of God. If God ever has a child/offspring, the Muslims would be the first to worship it! There were many parts to Jesus ministry: The first is to lead back the Children of Israel, and no one else to the right path of believing in One God and worshipping that God and obeying His commandments. By this, if the Children of Israel had followed Jesus instructions, by his Lord, they would have been the conveyors of true Monotheism, the worship of God in its pure Oneness, without any association with it, but negating all types of associations. Jesus was not more than a creation, because he could not have existed by his own power, because he has none, except by the power of the One God! And for the umptty time, Jesus did not die on the cross and there is no need for him to stand firm on the process of death, at least, not yet. But in the future he will do just that as a believer. If Jesus was ver on the cross and he made any prayer on the cross and if the prayer was accepted, then his killers and his betrayers are all in Paradise then, right? Therefore, those who committed evil acts from that point on, eg Hitler and company, with lesser sins than the killing of Jesus, your son of god, your God in the flesh who walked the streets of Jerusalem, Galillee, will in no doubt be in Paradise, right? Finally, I observed that the 100% rank of the killers are 'disbelievers,' in the complete package of Jesus, which includes his prophethood, his son of godship and his death on the cross as a means of salvation. If these people are going to paradise since Jesus made that supplication to God, then, the future people who do not believe his total package as is, eg the Muslims, who believe in his messengership are already a shoe-in for Paradise, right? Even the Jews fair just as well as the Muslims. The others are not doing too bad either, right? Did you notice that Jesus prayered to a Higher Authority than himself? That Higher Authority is God and thats Who the Muslims worship!

So what advantage do the Christians have over others, in their belief? What is the purpose of Jesus leading the way to the path home? You will see therefore, from Islamic observation, that there was no Jesus on the cross and therefore there was no prayer and the acceptance of 'the forgive them, ,' of the on the cross prayer! Everything is fraudulent, as you have stated it in your remark above. She she!

@Jaiirzinho: Muhammad (as), was buried the the same day he died. Is burial place is in Madina, where he spent the last 10 years of his life.

@TayoD: Thank God for defidixone's effort in providing your Act 19 masterpiece! Fortunately I could not find any part that resembled Islam, the religion that Allah the Almighty ordained/commanded for all mankind. If you know it, since this way your similitude of proof, please, do not be shy or bashful to present your analysis. You have failed woefully in every effort you have made, since yesterday to drag down Islam. You will never be able to do it, singularly or collectively, even if all of you were to pile up your efforts and aid one another in wisdom, from now till the last man standing is cutdown by death! Never will you be successful in that department and Allah is my Witness on it!

@Mrpataki: First, this Prophet restored the firm conviction in the heart of believers that God is One Lord. Not son god. Not father god. Not holy ghost god! This alone is enough! You want more, yet you can not wipe your butt cleanly when you use the bathroom. Orishi rishi! I have to copy you there, on the Orishi rishi thing. Muhammad took salvation to the level of individual's responsibility, and not the Jewish tribal salvation, nor the Christian middle man Jesus salvation! You still want more? You should be tired by now. Omo 9ja, you got to wake up pretty early to even try and you will only succeed with diseased hearted people. Not believers, who are convinced that God is capable of all things and He does not have to waste the life of an innocent Jesus to save His own creations. Which he created without needing anybody and for sure Jesus was from the children of Adam!

@TayoD: You spoke about Kenneth Cragg and others as if they will know the language of Arabia than the Arabs. In Islamic term, we call these type of people Muta Mushriikun. It means they are the worst kind of disbelievers, because they claim to have knowledge, yet the knowledge does not benefit them. These are the Orientalists. If I can quote from the Qur'an many verses that call Muhammad as the prophet/messenger for all mankind, then what? If I quote from the Qur'an, which I have done before that all other prophets/Messengers prior to Muhammad, (This group of prophets/Messengers included Mose, Jesus, etc) were covenanted by Allah that if He sent His Messenger to the world, at the time of any of the prophets/messengers were alive, and if they hear about this Universal Prophet/Messenger, they must aid and support him, what will you do? What will you do with clear evidence of the the Universality of the Messengership of Muhammad?

This writer, Olabowale Omo Pakulopa of Ijebu Ode has accepted Islam and I am inviting you to join me.

@Davidylan: Read Surah Saffa. From Verses 1 through 8, you will at least know that Moses and Jesus were sent to the children of Israel alone and no other peoples. For sure not the Omo Oduduwas of Yoruba land of Nigeria. I already answered your no 2 question. And if you did not get it, tough. I will not waste my precious time on your antics. Its your ploy and I know you enough to feel you. Dig? In Surah Al Maidah, Allah says that the mouth of David and Jesus cursed the Children of israel. If this is praising in your Book, then you need to go to the Bible where Jesus called his people a generation of vipers, and the like. Now you must believe that they were stiff necked. And that is not a description of good and obedient people. They beheaded John son of zachariah, did they not? They created a golden calf to worship, didn't they? Again you will see in Surah Saffa and others. Why not Google the Tafsir of Qur'an? You are good at googling anyway. David, mo fe lo sun. Mo lati ji lati kirun oru. Oda aroo. Omo boy! Thanks for the memories.

@Davidylan:

@ babs787, i have just one question:
WHY did allah allegedly send the torah, the prophets and the injil to the JEWS ONLY?
What of the children of ishmael? The man he claimed he told Abraham to sacrifice? Why not to the whole world?
Answer this question and the answer to all your "questions" above are answered.

: Davidylan, let me take the question: Allah sent Torah to Moses son of Imran to guide the Children of Israel. The Injiil is the same through Jesus son of Virgin Mary. In all of the above, including the sabuur of David, yet they refused in many instances and periods to follow the Prophets and did not accept the guidance provided to them. After their failure whereby they refused to follow Jesus son of Mary, God cut them off, as the exclusive carrier of the message of guidance to the world. Yet God kept His covenant with Ibrahiim. He turned to the other branch of the Children of Ibrahim. The Arabs through the house of Hashim of Ismail bloodline of Makka. You begin to get it now, my dear David? Muhammad was then chosen to carry the message of guidance to the rest of the world. He starting with the Makkans and invariably the rest of the world. We see that the companions of this Prophet/Messenger were from all parts of the world and of many colors; Shuaib Al Rum, a white man from Europe, represented Arian nations of Euro and her offshoots, the Americas and Australia. We see Bilal Rabah representing the Black race, specifically Africans. We see Salman Al Farsi represented the whole of Asia. We see that Abu Bakr represented the Arabs and Asia minor. We even see AbdalsSalaam represented the Bani Israel. So David, whats your point?

Where do you go from here, now that you know the truth of Muhammad being the only Prophet/Messenger sent to the whole of Mankind?

@Davidylan: I love you but please shut up. You must make meaningful contribution for me to answer you this time. I can love you and yet i can ignore you.

@TayoD: Your two verses needs a little bit of Onion lay peel back to exposed the truth:

Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.

1Jo 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.Are those answers enough for you. jesus is without sin, but anyone else who claims to be without sin is a liar.

: Hebrew 4:15 is a very convenient verse. Indeed the whole Hebrew is very convenient, for anyone to quote. Considering that it is a book written after Jesus left the earth. Raised up by the power of God, which was not him. That act, alone clearly points to us that Jesus and God are two different and separate entities. One being the Master, the other being the servant, running the errant of calling his own tribe, the lost children of Israel back to the path of pure guidance in worshipping God. Did Jesus make the statement in the Hebrew verse you quoted? No. Indeed all the post Gospel verses are conjectures of the people who remained alive on earth after Jesus was lifted up. In view of this, your Hebrew verse, is not worth the quality of the statement made. It is pure lie.

John 1:8, is very inconclusive, from the simple reading of it. Unless you have an insight to what is behind it, it also fail the crucial litmus test. If you use these two verses as your test, then you have proven nothing and if you hang your hope on these, verses, then I am afraid that you have to do better. tayoD, you have told a major but weak and baseless story.

As to the Qur'an talking about Jesus being sinless or not, I can not quote you a verse and this is why I asked you to provide the Qur'anic verse. Indeed, all Prophets are sinless, if you look at it, because, if any sin, from them, he is forgiven by Allah, as the prophet supplicates his Creator for forgiveness. Infact, the reason they sin, if at all, is to to teach believers of the fact that God accepts the repentance of His creations. Jesus was not an exception and you need to bring out your verse or verses from the Qur'an, since you could not proof it from the Bible. By the way what sin did John the son of Zachariah commit? What sin did his father Zachariah commit? In Islam Jesus and John were in the same heaven, the second even as seen by Muhammad in his night journey to heavens.

God can do anything. However God restricts Himself from doing things that do not befit His Majesty. He does not need to spend money for example: What will he buy, from whom and what currency to use; USD, Euro, Russian Rubles, Nigerian Naira? God does not eat for example. Even His Angels were not reported to have eaten while they were in human form. God is never tired, nor fatigued nor slumber. Infact He is always in full capacity that befits Him, only and no one else. I need to stop, because i could go on for ever. But you are now certain that Jesus does not have any of these qualities that i have listed above.

God does not have to be humble like you and me. He needs not to lower Himself to your level which is also my level, since we are both humans. God knowledge is limitless, while Jesus knowledge is limited. Afterall, he did not know the exact hour, when he was asked. He was only able to give signs. Muhammad did the same thing! Giving the signs of the hour, that is. Muhammad gave the small signs and then the big signs!

TayoD, you know that I am not a Christian. It does not matter to me if you continue to pass the fake Bible for Original Bible. You and me are Ijebu people. You are familiar with Owo Ijebu. Your current Bible is the Owo Ijebu of the True Bible Books revealed to the Prophets. Qur'an says that you have corruptions in the Bible and thats enough for me. I can see it with my casual observation of the 'many versions.' It is you who have to defend the Bible, not me. It is obvious that you do not know the first thing about how the Qur'an was compiled. But I need not to waste my time on this with you. The strength of Abu Bakr is a strong as the people who surrounded him. We see that Umar used to act as a reminder for him. We also see that he could not stop the former slave Bilal from moving to Syria, after the death of Muhammad (as), even though Abu Bakr had paid for the freedom of this Prayer caller. The only one that his statement could never be challenged among mankind, from Islamic viewpoint was Muhammad. And after the first compilation of the Qur'an, the remnants were still in the hands of those who had them. Abu Bakr did nothing about them and never collected them, let alone burnt them!

It is your religion and your Book that declared you to be unworthy and filth. Qur'an and Islam gave mankind honor. We are required to talk to Allah directly. While you set up a medium between you and God, just like the Aborishas of Yoruba land. We depend on the mercy of God directly, while you could not deal with God, but goes through a person who need to beg God. God required some minimal commitment from us, the Muslims and He quarantee thereby that He will forgive us and admit us in His paradise. But for you God needs to kill some innocent man, shed the blood of this innocent man, but yet, whoever believes in this gruesome event but continue to do evil deeds and dies on it, can he/she be guaranteed the heaven of Christianity? Afterall, Hitler and others from the ranks of Christianity believed and committed atrocities. What there case, they should be in Christian paradise, right? can you tell us that they will be in Christian paradise? If you can not, then the great death has been in 100% not worth it, it has been in vain!

TayoD: Enlighten us about Artemis of the Ephesians, being almost the same as Islam,. Islam is a religion I have practiced for over half a century. Mother was just talking to me about that this afternoon, that I took the religion seriously from my young days. I know enough about Islam that it is unique and there has been no other religion that matches it, in the way it is practiced. But I will like to hear how you came up with your opinion about Islam, a religion you know nothing and at best a little about.

@TayoD: Is there any verse of the Bible that is uniquely telling us that Jesus is the only sinless person? Further did you just isolate a verse from the Qur'an, which says that Jesus alone is the only sinless person? May I have the verse from the Qur'an? And did you consider all the other verses in the Qur'an considering Jesus and his mother, Virgin Mary? You must read Surah Al Maidah, towards the end to see what kinda condition that the day of Judgement holds for Jesus. You must also read towards the end of Surah Mariam, to see the condition of those who say that God has a son and the fact that no one has a right to intercede before the Irresistible God, except the one Only He grants it to. You must also read in Surah Nisaa where God says that Jesus was no crucified nor killed. You must also read in Surah Isra where Allah says that if there is more than 1 god, each god would try to out shine the other(s) and finally all would have colluded together and try to challenge the Supreme God!

Tayo if any and all of these do not have any effect on you, how do you want us the 'Muslims,' who accept One Supreme God should accept a man from Palestine, who at one time was just a mere fetus in his mothers womb, as our god? How do you expect us to take this man called Jesus as god when there is the owner of the "WORD" that all of you say he was, yet while he become flesh the OWNER OF THE WORD, never lost His ability to speak with His Angels and the other Prophets; Zachariah and Yahya, both father and son who were contemporaries of Jesus?

Finally, how 100% inspired words of God keep changing so much as if the goal post is being shifted every 20 years? Why so many versions of 100% inspired words of God? Which one is real and why don't you present the ORIGINAL Inspired Words of God, which you call the Bible: No only from the most ancient transcript which is in other language different the one it is revealed in, and 300 years later. I am talking about what it was right at the time of revelation. That will be Aramaic, but definitely, not Greek. It would be what we call the undiluted revelation. From the time of when the Qur'an declares that there is corruption in the Bible, it has become polluted. Now compare the two sets of Bibles and you will find discrepancies and disagreements between them!

This is the effort you have to go through to save your own soul. Jesus will not be able to do it for you. You should be grateful to the True God that Babs727 is pointing out these things to you. Bringing truth to your attention. All you have to say to him, is 'dude?'

@defidixone: Sorry I misspelled your name. But it was not intentional. Please answer the questions and stop avoiding it, giving us issue of understanding Inspired. Every soul is inspired to do good, but yet there are evils done by many. So people claim that they are inspired. That is their claim. Only God knows the truth. But am very sure that whosoever engineered the three godhead in One God has been inspired by the Devil. That has been declared in the Qur'an, Surah Mariam. You wouldn't know about it would you that if there has been more than One God, all the others will be trying to out shine one another/each other, and then may actually gang up to try to challenge the Supreme GOD! This verse is also in Surah Mariam.

@Jairzinho: There lies your ignorance. Telling your Creator that He should have revealed something different, other than Joseph, for example from the Old Testament and other than Jesus from the New Testament. If this were to have been the case, would not the like of you states that the NEW REVELATION has nothing to show any thread or association to the Old Revelations, which it came to correct? How do you correct something when your Material is not relevant to what you are intending to correct. How could Qur'an have been able to correct the lies heaved up on the personality of Jesus, except the true quality and personality was presented? How do we know that there is Only One God, except that the concept of three godheads/son, father,spirit, is all destroyed to nothingness?

I know am incoherent, but I know the truth when I read it, when I hear it and my SOUL and HEART have no disagreement with it!

Is the religion of Virgin Mary different from her son's religion? Or neither one of them practice any religion? For sure, we see verses in the Qur'an that commands Mary to bow down with those who bow. Without wanting to go to the Tafsir of that verse, we know that she was commanded in the way of Islam. And she obliged and obeyed the command. Zachariah also was commanded to make praising Supplications to Allah, in the period of after Salatul Subh and Asri. This time, he was already told that Yahya would be born at his old age, in the old age and wrinkled form that he and his wife were.

His sign was that he would be unable to speak for three days, so he only motion, by signing to talk to people. But during the two period of after Salatul Subh and Asri, Allah will return his voice to him, so that he can make the audible tesbir: Alhamdulillah, Shukrillah. These are 2 Miracles here. The first is the lost of voice and the second is that the voice will come back just for a particular function/commitment, as long as it pleased the Owner of the Throne Supreme.

We will not go to the birth of Yahya to these old believing people. The example was already in place with Ibrahim and Sarah, from the old time!

@jairzinho: Your name sounds Portuguese/Brazilian, Sao Tome; Tuda ben?

I wonder why Muslims(the ones that remain) like to deceive themselves?
Islam was started by the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW),the ENTIRE Old Testament in the Bible was re-written in Arabic to form a chunk of the Koran.
How can you confirm this,3 monotheist beliefs ssentially originated from the Mid East , Christianity,Judaism & Islam. The first 2 accounts are the same , only the Holy Prophet Muhammad's(SAW) seem to differ??
And to answer your question,Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was born into a Jewish family.

But John 14:6 encapsulates His ministy on earth.

: The Ones that remain, meaning the Muslims are roughly 25% of the world population, duh! Yet from the remaining 75%, we find Hindus of India, Shinto, Buddha and animists and others, from at least 70% of China and the same of India, Japanese and a small amount at least 10% from Africa and other places. How large is Christianity again? We know that the Jews are very small, at least 1% of the world population? Notice that I have based all my statements on religion alone and not ethnicity, whatsoever.

Which Chapter of the Old Testament of the Bible was copied/was re-written in Arabic to form a chunk of the (Qur'an)? Please present them and place then side by side with the relevant parts of the Qur'an for your own education. Qur'an came to correct the 'Bible!' Qur'an does it by accurately presenting 100% truth of any matter, where by the Bible does not present the same 100%. Qur'an negates what lies and embellishments/exaggerations the Bible presents as sets of facts. Qur'an is against evil deeds and defines them with the appropriate punishments, where as the Bible begs the questions. Qur'an declares that the present Bible is corrupted/a watered down document of what was Originally revealed to the Prophets. Qur'an declares that any other form of religion that one comes with, except Islam will be rejected on the day of Judgement. And the person will be punished in the fire of Hell. Suratul Fatiha declares that Jews have incurred the wrath of God and Christians have gone astray! Where then does Qur'an give precedence to your TODAY'S BIBLE? You do not have authentic revelation anymore, Mr. Jew or Mr. Christian!

Do not deceive yourself, neither Judaism nor Christianity is a Monotheistic religion, in the pure form. They remain just that only in name. The mere fact that your Bible is not 100% pure prior to Muhammad's receiving the revelation of Qur'an is enough that you truly do not worship the Creator and Revealer of those Books; The Taurah to Moses, the Sabuur to David and Injiil to Jesus son of Mary!

Just because Jesus was born to a Jewish family does not mean that he was not a Muslim! I was born to a Yoruba family, even though I am an ordinary man and there is no prophet/messenger after Muhammad, yet am still a Muslim! Your ethnicity should not determine your religion. Their being Muslims was the primary definition of their being Prophets of Allah. They could not acll anyone to worship anyone else, including themselves. Their sole responsibility of their missions is Calling People to worship Allah Alone and no one else! Each was given complete command, and Jesus was from among these Prophets/Messengers to call their people to the worship of One God and never to associate any partnership with that God!

Your calling Jesus Christ, son of Virgin Mary your lord and savior proves that you are worshipping him. He was a person born of a woman, just like you. Hence, you have set up partnership with your statement which is false that you worship God alone. For sure you worship God and then you worship Jesus. You are a multigod worshipper and that is Idolatry!

@Xavier:

Hi Olabowale,
are you aware that the Northern Muslims treat and regard the Southern Muslims as second class Muslims. I say this with all objectivity. My Northern Muslim friends tell me they are true Islam followers. I must tell you also, that during the crisis that started as a result of the "Caricature of Muhammad", I know of 2 Yoruba Muslims that were killed along with Christians. I cannot begin to tell you the names they give to Southern Muslims
From the the few words of yours I read, you and I can be best of friends, even though we are of different religion, but again, from your name (and view point) I see you are a Southern Muslim, hence not surprised that you are thinking, rational, and objective.
I hope I can share issues with you from time to time.
Thank you fro your advise also.

: A Makkan or a Medina Muslim, can not claim with 100% certainty that he/she is a better Muslim than anyone who is Muslim, from any other part of the world! Whosoever claims that a Muslim who is not practicing 'Islam,' through the Prism of 'INNOVATION,' is a worse Muslim than him/herself simply based on ethnicity, gender, race, wealth or any of the worldly and class delineations, is an arrogant person and hence is a Hypocrite. That person, the speaker who is speaking arrogantly is a follower of Shaitan, while in the state of believing that he/she is better!

Allah says that God consciousness is the only barometer of classification/quality of human beings with Him. Muhammad (as), said that the Arab is not better than the non Arabs, or the other way around. The White is not better than the non white, or the other way around. The Wealthy is not better than the unprivileged, or the other way around. A man is not better than a woman, or the other way around. The old is not better that the young, or the other way around. The only way one person is better than the other is in their degrees of Piety of God consciousness.So if any group of Muslims discriminate against another group of Muslims, by laying claims to what is only known to The Merciful, then we see tremendous error in that thinking. That been said, as above, I asked God Almighty to bring the light of guidance to the hearts of non Muslims and destroy any and all forms of arrogance from the hearts of any Muslim. Amin.

I do tell my Northern Nigerian Muslim brothers, and I know a good number of them, but most are good in their practice of Islam, but the few who think that Islam begins and ends in Nigeria, within the Northern boundaries, that no one will enter Paradise, from the Islamic perspective, based on Ethnicity alone. If this is so, all Arabs will have to enter Paradise, and so will all Pakistanis. For Pakistan is the only country that is organised on Islam, the reason it separated from Mother Hindu India.

Those Muslims who were killed out of Ignorance acts of anyone, be they Muslims or not, I ask Allah the Only One who truly grant prayers to accept them into His Paradise. Amin. Nigeria has a long way to go in the matters of ethnic relationshipand interaction. One is encouraged by Islam to show tolerance. I am lacking in that department, too. But I will try to follow the set of examples of my righteous predecessors; The Prophet, and his companions and the two generations which followed. How can a Muslim help others to see the beauty of Islam, except that he/she, the Muslim shows good Islamic quality, always.

@Davidixone: Davidixone, if you can even answer these direct questions, about your 'Bible,' as you have it today, then how are still in among the crowd called 'Christians?' You can't even stand on the conviction of your Book! Wow! Answer the questions and stop taking the 'fifth.' Come on. Enough already!

The Prohibition of hiding the Truth and distorting It with Falsehood (Is this not correction, also from Surah Baqarah?)

Allah forbade the Jews from intentionally distorting the truth with falsehood and from hiding the truth and spreading falsehood,

[وَلاَ تَلْبِسُواْ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَـطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُواْ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ ]

(And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth while you know (the truth)).
So Allah forbade them from two things; He ordered them to make the truth known, as well as explaining it. Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn `Abbas mentioned the Ayah,

[وَلاَ تَلْبِسُواْ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَـطِلِ]

(And mix not truth with falsehood) and said; "Do not mix the truth with falsehood and the facts with lies.'' Qatadah said that,

[وَلاَ تَلْبِسُواْ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَـطِلِ]

(And mix not truth with falsehood) means, "Do not mix Judaism and Christianity (both are lies) with Islam,

[وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ]

(while you know (the truth).) that the religion of Allah is Islam, and that Judaism and Christianity are innovations that did not come from Allah.'' It was reported that Al-Hasan Al-Basri said similarly.
Also, Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated that Ibn `Abbas said that,

[وَتَكْتُمُواْ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ]

(nor conceal the truth while you know (the truth).) means, "Do not hide the knowledge that you have of My Messenger and what he was sent with. His description, which you know about, can be found written in the Books that you have.'' (How ever remote. He is in there of any truth that does remain)
It is possible that it means, ", although you know the tremendous harm that this evil will cause people, misguiding them and leading them to the Fire, because they will follow the falsehood that you mixed with the truth in your claims.''

[وَأَقِيمُواْ الصَّلوةَ وَآتُواْ الزَّكَوةَ وَارْكَعُواْ مَعَ الرَّاكِعِينَ ]

(And perform As-Salat and give Zakah, and bow down along with Ar-Raki`in.)
Muqatil said, "Allah's statement to the People of the Book,

[وَأَقِيمُواْ الصَّلَوةَ]

(And perform As-Salah) commands them to perform the prayer behind the Prophet ,

[وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَوةَ]

(and give Zakah) commands them to pay the Zakah to the Prophet , and

[وَارْكَعُواْ مَعَ الرَّاكِعِينَ]

(and bow down along with Ar-Raki`in) commands them to bow down with those who bow down among the Ummah of Muhammad . Allah therefore commands the People of the Book to be with, and among the Ummah of Muhammad .'' In addition, Allah's statement,

[وَارْكَعُواْ مَعَ الرَّاكِعِينَ]

(And bow down along with Ar-Raki`in) means, "And be among the believers performing the best deeds they perform, such as, and foremost, the prayer.'' Many scholars said that this Ayah (2:43) is proof for the obligation of performing the prayer in congregation (for men only). I will explain this ruling in detail in Kitab Al-Ahkam Al-Kabir, Allah willing.

[أَتَأْمُرُونَ النَّاسَ بِالْبِرِّ وَتَنسَوْنَ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ تَتْلُونَ الْكِتَـبَ أَفَلاَ تَعْقِلُونَ ]

(44. Enjoin you Al-Birr (piety and righteousness and every act of obedience to Allah) on the people and you forget (to practise it) yourselves, while you recite the Scripture (Tawrah: (Seeing that there are some truth still in it, regardless of the falsehood it contains as a later addition))! Have you then no sense)

: Is this less that correction in any body's balanced mind?

When I requested that the PUNDITS should define for us what is correction, I heard a lot of horrible commentaries. I am very busy and Allah has restrained me from truly ugly statements that I would have desired to answer many on this board.

Encouraging the Children of Israel to embrace Islam (From Surah Baqarah: If this is not correction, then tell me what it is, please)

Allah commanded the Children of Israel to embrace Islam and to follow Muhammad . He also reminded them with the example of their father Israel, Allah's Prophet Ya`qub, as if saying, "O children of the pious, righteous servant of Allah who obeyed Allah! Be like your father, following the truth.'' This statement is similar to one's saying, "O you son of that generous man! Do this or that'' or, "O son of the brave man, engage the strong fighters,'' or "O son of the scholar, seek the knowledge,'' and so forth. Similarly, Allah said,

[ذُرِّيَّةَ مَنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ إِنَّهُ كَانَ عَبْدًا شَكُورًا ]

(O offspring of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nuh (Noah)! Verily, he was a grateful servant) (17:3 Surah Isra)

For sure Jesus was not a Christian. And he did not instruct anyone to start any religion after he had left. Definitely he did not ask anybody to start Christianity or name a religion after him. With that in mind, all that is Christianity is without the John Hancock of Jesus son of Mary. And by the way why are you all still calling this woman a Virgin after you have said that she had two sons, brothers of Jesus for Joseph the capenter? If she remained a virgin after having children from a sexual relation witha man, then thats a bigger miracle than the birth of Jesus without father.

We see how convoluted the mindset of those who still call her a virgin is? Maybe their Bible still denotes her as a virgin. No wonder we all doubt the authenticity of the Bible and called it lost. We all agree that it is corrupted and watered down from its original. It is now a mere shadow of its undiluted and pure originally revealed Books.

@Focused: You will never be able to find Muhammad in the Bible, that you have. Just the same way that you will never be able to pass what you have now as the Bible, even though you call it the Bible, (as the original Taurat (Old Testament) of Moses) if Moses son of Imran were to be alive on earth and stands up to examine it, in order to testify to the veracity of your statement. Again you will never be able to pass what you have now as the Bible, even though you call it the Bible, (as the original Sabuur (Psalm) of David) if David were to be alive on earth and stands up to examine it, in order to testify to the veracity of the authenticity of your statement. Finally, you will never be able to pass what you have now, even though you call it Bible, (as the original Injiil (New Testament) of Jesus son of Virgin Mary) if Jesus were to be alive on earth and stands up to examine it, in order to testify to the veracity of the authenticity of your statement. Thanks to the hands, the pens and the selfish desires of the Scribes and Saul/Paul and company are amongst them. The influence of Saul/Paul and company is restricted to the New Testament alone. I know people willbe looking to make issue of it only I explain it like this.

The same bent out of shape reasoning that you have employed so that you can continue to call Mary 'Virgin Mary', after you have said that she married and had at least a brother or two along with Jesus, for her husband Joseph the capenter. Aha, when a woman has sex, she is no more a virgin. Especially when you declare that she has children for a husband through it. If she still remain a virgin, it will be a graeter miracle that just having a child without any sex! See how unreasonable and unreal the total thinking of Christendom is? If you continue to call this woman a Virgin, how can you see Muhammad (as)? Muhammad can only be seen by those whose hearts are pure. Those who know that there are no three gods or godheads. But truly there is One God, Supreme in every respect. Different from His creations and Unique without any partner.

Allah says in Verse 42 of Surah Isra, that 'if there has been more than One God, the other gods will try to out do each other or one another. Then they may collude together as to challenge The Most Merciful'. I paraphrase here, but check out the verse yourself. In another chapter Allah says that a servant with many masters is not equal to a servant with one master. The servant with many masters will have to answer to each one of the masters, specifically when all needs him at the same time, each with different and opposing intention, from the other. Whereas the servant that has a single Master concentrates and answers to the need of the Master without considering any known or other implied masters. The Muslims have one single Master, which is Allah The Most merciful. The Irresistible, Supreme God Lord of all Creations. The Christians have godheads, Father God, Son God and Holy Spirit God. If this is not multigods, I do not know what it is.

Further as demonstrated by the begging of Jesus in the prayer at the garden of Geshamene, Jesus the son God wanted to escape death on the cross, but father God wanted the death of son God on the cross! See the confusion? Holy Spirit God had nothing to do in that situation. It was there in a persive form. Neither supporting the father or supporting the son. I will not even take it a step further, to discuss the situation on the cross; the roles and wishes of the three Gods, because your mind can not wrap around it, in understanding and in maturity of thoughts.

Quote from: buluti on November 13, 2007, 09:58 PM
Please is it true and in the Koran that Muhammad married a 6 yr old child. This is to the Muslims in the house, a simple Yes or No will do?
Thanks for your aniticipated simple "Yes" or "No".
Can someone please answer my question?

: No it is not true, based on all our collective entries. No it is not in the Qur'an that Muhammad married a 6 year old. Now Buluti, tell me about John 1 verse 21. Provide answers to the question of three Prophets in that verse. Who were the Prophets? Give names please. And if one of them has not been fulfilled, you have a huge Biblical problem and the deficiency is enough for a one whose heart is not diseased to leave Christianity alone. Then I want you to give me the answers of Jesus son of virgin Mary, as he was asked the same set of question that was asked of John the Baptist, above. Please compare the two answers of these noble Prophets. If they do not match exactly, with each other, then you will see that your Bible writers goofed big time. That will show you what we have been saying to you all along. We know that John son of Zachariah and Jesus son of Mary, as cousins and as contemporary prophets of God can never have made opposing statements about the same subject! Allah would not permit them to disagree with each other.

The rate at which religious disturbances occur here is alarming, we take cover in Military Cantoments when these events occur. I have many Muslims friends, I eat with them, we play together, however, most of them are Southern Muslims, though I have a few Northern Muslims, I am extra careful with them.

During crisis period, the Northern muslims do not know you as friends, they can kill the very person they ate with the day before. The advise for Fire Arms actually came from the Church council here (all churches here belong to this council)

: The fact that you are honest enough to speak the truth about Southern Muslims attitude versus Northern Muslims attitude, should point to you that the reality of 'religious unrest,' in Nigerian North, is truly not religious. Afterall, the common thread is Islam amongst the Muslim populace, of Nigeria, at least. I restrict my comment to Nigeria, alone, since it is your primary concern here. It is a microobservation of what it is in Islam, which people call religious violence. The Macroobservation truth of it is that it more ethnic or racial than true religious underpinnings.

For example the Northern Muslims may even slaughter their own Muslim people, just because he or she is not from the North. So Islam is not in play here, even though they may shout Allahu Akbar at the top of their lungs, while committing any killing or destruction. It is the same in Palestine, too, because what you see is the flag of Palestine, whereas the flag of Islam is not showing.

Finally, I am only responding only because of the fact that the Church Council finds it greatly essential to even think about the need for 'Arms.' There is no difference in the ignorance of the individuals amongst the Muslims of Northern Nigeria, or Southern Nigeria or the whole world, who participate or encourage destructions of lives or properties of people who are innocent and the Church Council, which calls for acquisition of weapons. They are all in the same boat.

Islam requires that one should stand up for Justice, even if it against oneself! Muslims are supposed to restrain from doing any fighting and in particular against innocents. The only way a Muslim should fight is he/she is restricted from entering the Mosque and or practicing Islam. Finally, Muslims are not supposed to fight as a fragmented bodies, but as a singly wholesome community.

So what we have happening now around the whole world and in Nigeria is not Islamic way of prosecuting any war. You want to know about how Muslim fight, refer yourself to the wars under Muhammad (as) and the four (4) kalifahs, in a general sense of it.

@Zigbo:

the lady in the first picture pilgrim posted is wearing a sleeveless top looking so attractive in it, then she goes right after n puts a veil round her face. . what is that about . meanwhile if i ever see them beautiful ladies covered up in veils from head to toe like that nd in a group of 4 or more approaching from a dist. i will be very frightened nd i'll prolly take off myself nt to talk of children, that looks so scarry.

: My dear lady, what is the essence of a person, trying to be modest, as if obeying the commandment of God, when the breast is almost exposed, as you can see in the picture? Then the person wears a 'skull cap' and a nikaa to cover the nose and mouth, while exposing, the Neck, shoulders and the whole arms? This is against Islam my sister. I guarantee you that these women in the pictures are not Muslims and if they were, it is only Islam by name and never from the heart.

Just because you have a middle astern looking face, does not mean they are Muslims. And if they are they do not have to be the scholars of Islam. There are Jews and Christians and others of varying degrees of non Muslims from the Middle east. Some may just be willing to be the props in the pictures to malign Islam, knowingly or unknowingly. And not all Muslims know what they do in Islam. This is the reason that Islam commands scholarship, on everyone. Take the case of the poor Afghanistan woman, with the baby in the picture, Kazakh, the President should be mindful of his responsibility to his Lord. The wealthy amongst them too, should know that they have responsibility to the poor among them. How do they allow their sister to be in that state of financial condition, yet she has not taking off the covering is an indictment on all of them, including the president himself. Muhammad (as) said that everyone will be accountable of his/her duties to the people under their care. The father, his family. The mother her children. The leader those under his authority/jurisdiction.

@Focused: Good morning. Since you addressed me personally, I am obliged to respond:

What do your Quran mean by dirt and stench ? I notice you muslims are fond of calling Christians dirts
What makes you think muslims are modest ?
If muslims are modest, why is that they don't value human life ? Why do they love killing people at every slightest opportunity ? Why do they find it so hard to forgive ?
When has Islam become a yardstick for measuring modesty ? God have mercy

:Dirt is remnant of unclean/impure particle, be it liquid, solid or even gases. (In the case of case it could be wet or dry). Stench is therefore present as the odor emanating from the dirt. Do you clean it properly if you defecate? For instance, if you pass solid waste, do you clean up like Muslims are are commanded to clean up, whereby the dirt and stench are altogether eliminated? If you pass liquid waste, are you painstakingly patient to be sure that your bladder is empty and you will not have droplets souling your cloth/undergarment, later and it it after that you are sure that your bladder is empty that you rinse/clean up properly? When you pass gas/break wind, do you do it away from people, so that you do not make people uncomfortable? When you meet your wife in bed, do you shower as to purify yourself after it, whereby you are reenergized and then eliminate any dirt, be it liquid and or solid and of course, the stench? This is Islam cleanliness that you are missing out. I have not even touched up on the Miswak, Wudu and others, like the clipping of the nails and shaving or cutting low of the pubic hairs; the armpit and the private area.

I do know for a fact that if you think you are modest now, you will see a greater modesty in your deeds/dealings when you become a Muslim, with the same exact mindset. Islam calls for modesty, in true sense of it and it lays out the different matters concerning it. Please do not ask me to provide them. I am very busy and you can do your own research, if you are interested. But what is most important is that regardless of what you think of your own quality, it will mean Zero to God Almighty in the day of Judgement, except you are a true believer and have died upon worshipping Him in Islam. If you see a Muslim who is not modest, that person would be worse in modest quality, had it not been that he/she is in Islam. You must look at everyone in their own total capability of resources to enact the Modesty. For a Billionaire, the yardstick of modesty will be different from a poor fellow. But both have a common natural inclination to shower/bathing, etc.

If the only yardstick of modesty is the number of human lives that have been lost through the hands of each religious group, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, we will notice that Islam is the most modest amongst the three: Reasons, if we talk about the pogroms/or genocidal/out right ethnic cleansing or the attempt to do so and or just the share number of peoples, by head counting, the Jews and the Christians as entities, acting separately are head and shoulders more efficient as killing machines and more deadly. We should not forget the killings that took place from the time that the Children of Israel then, but Jews now crossed the sea and until the settled down to the'Promised land.' We must not forget the Crusades, after The Spanish Inquisitions, the many other wars, and WWs, and yet today, we are still having the Christians rising up against the Muslims. Did you forget the Chechen's, The Mujahaddins of 70 and early 80s Afghanistan, and how about the Serbians of the old Yugoslavia? It is true that we have the Palestinians and others attacking the Jews of the 'State of Israel.' But what was there relationships with the Jews before the Balfour Conventions of 1889 or there about? Don't make a big deal about the date. The point is that the Zionist formed an organisation to eliminate the Palestinians from the land that they both have equal rights over, if you go back to the Ibrahim relationship with his God (And that God was not Jesus. No sir. Not in the least). Either way this is the only singly problem that I see today, and it is the cause that is creating rift(s) between Islam and Christianity/Judaism. Finally, you need to understand that when Islam ruled in the centuries past, eg in Spain, it did not force anyone to convert and did not deprive anyone of the normal elements of societal human quality of life. If it had, you will never have had a single Christians then or even now in Spain and maybe a good part of continental Europe as well.

There is plenty of verses of Qur'an that commands, and or recommends the act of forgiveness. One of Allah's qualitative description is The Forgiver. Muhammad is also a means of forgiving. After all he taught us that we should seek forgiveness from our Lord, then we should seek it from those who we have wronged. We should seek it in supplications for our deads, as long as they are Muslims. I swear by my Lord Allah, that when a former non Muslim converts, his/her former sins are forgiven and wiped out, but simultaneously turned to good deeds. So when a person becomes a Muslim, the accounting of that person becomes positive immediately, without any negative. The positive of the new account is by at least the same amount that the account was negative before. It is different from the Christian born again concept of religious progression, which at best, from the Christian point of view may only freeze the negative account, but does not give you any positive amount into your account, by this act except that you have to begin working for it, but at best wipes your negative account clean, even if that is so.

How on earth a person who can't clean the private parts properly, every time after using the bathroom, be it no 1 or no 2 except, only when they do shower right after, that you can vouch that there is no remnant of dirt and stench, on the person can talk about modesty, from the perspective of Qur'an and Sunnah? This is mind boggling! If a person who is not a Muslim thinks he or she is modest, it is very clear to me that when that person becomes Muslim and obeys the instructions concerning modesty, that person will become a more modest person. A Muslim who is not modest will be worse in modesty, if he or she were to go out of Islam. We can look around and see glaring examples. They abound everywhere and Nairaland is not without some examples.

If the New Testament declares that there are 3 gods or godheads, take your pick, and Qur'an says there is no three God, but One God, is this not correction? There are still many parts of the NT that the Qur'an rejects, as it has a different opinion. This is correction. I asked the pundit to define correct or if they wish correction. Davidylan, has become empty barrel and I am losing respect in his veracity. I had hoped that he will be true to form, since he calls himself a Tiger. But its is Tony the Tigre that is showing up, these days.

And to you davidylan: It is enough to read my entry whereby I asked simple question; if the law of Torah about fornication for a woman who is not married or adultery for a woman who is married, was not scrapped at the time of Mary's delivery of Jesus; How did it escape being punished? The answer is in the miracle of Jesus speaking in the cradle, where by he defended his mother's good womanness and declared his position as a prophet/messenger with a revealed Book to be given in the future. You will find this only in the Qur'an and it does have any trace in the Bible.

For a person to have stated that I said that Mary was punished, amounts to dishonesty. Davidylan, I am a very busy man and i have no time for child's play. I only want people to be honest. Dishonest people do not mean anything to me.

@mdsocks: Salaamualaykum. Jazakallahu Khair. I am going to begin my Quiyam now. But we in Islam know the truth, and that was why I was giving Nwando all kind of cronological developments, to be able to find out truly about Aisha. But, true to her form, she went away or hiding probably when she found out the truth, she can't bear to tell it. That make her testimony worth even less. I do not think greatly of her statements towards Islam anyhow.

If anyone knew the relationship between Abu Bakr and Muhammad, before Islam, it would be surprising to know that Abu Bakr, was the first person, outside of Muhammad's household to accept Islam. This was the fisrt year of Islam and Aisha was Already 4 or 5 years old by the time of the first revelation. They spend 13 years in Makka on top of her 4 or 5 years. Then they spend 2 years before she and the prophet(as) consumated the marriage. She was atleast 19 or close to 21 at this time! We are talking about Arabia of over 1400 years back. The first thing was that no one in either Makka or Madina or inbetween or those who heard amongst the people; Jews and Christians includedalong with the to the core idol worshippers, none use this early spring and late fall relationship as a means to accuse him. Here you have freaks from Nigeria, who probably lost their virginities in the backroom somewhere, come to show us what morality. Considering that they do not even know how to adore their Creator and they set up an intermediary between themselves or worship whatever they set up along with Him!

I am tired of their lies and its better to let them wallow in Ignorance. God will excite them as He excited Pharaoh, and they will enter the fire of hell in lock steps with him. That is if they do not turn back and repent and enter Islam. I am very confidence without any doubt no One has the right to be worshipped, but the Almighty alone. And He is not three, but in Oneness. And Muhammad is His last Prophet and Messenger.

Cgift please ooooooooooooo we don't worship idols
You only honour them for having that privilege that we don't have.

: You tell them Protestants. You use Idols and Mary. Them Protestants use Jesus. Same darn end product, association with God. The difference is only in name.

Who was that said that we catholics do not make use of the New Testament?>

: Afterall, the Protestants copied their Bible from you. They only eliminated few Books, because of what, no one knows. Th Catholic has the original Christianity, the protestant mold it to something else, courtesy of King James, who wanted to get devorce and was refused.

Anyone like that shld go to any catholic church and sit down and listen

: They would not do that. They are Protestants, protesting the Catholics.

Lest i forget please all u pentecoastals what is the origin of your own worship?

: Tell em. They don't know.

My dear Saint Peter was given the key and not your pastors
The catholic church started with him.

: While the Protestant was started with Martin Luther and King James.