₦airaland Forum

@Noetic and Sleek29: LOL. Guys, have you noticed the Chaotic thing happening, alla Pope to Protestants? Which is the true denomination, boys? The cloth is reaping through right from the strongest thread. I am hoping I will still be alive, when protestanism is completely phased out and becomes a thing of the past; say 75 years from now.

Strange boys. Strange proposal from the pope. Am confidence all who called Cathlocism pagans, will have to eat up what they threw out on it.

while I am waiting for salah time to roll in at 6.01 am in here, I have to take some lectures in from our right reverend Pastor AIO. I am smiling because no one is looking at the big picture; if all these protestants are absorbed back in to catholicism, then what are really the inferences we get and the lessons learnt?

Is protestant really the true Christian or Catholics? I and others have argued for the later and the former was just a rebel without a cause.

What happened to the Protestant Bible, with its incompleteness, lacking so many "books?" It will become a momento, NO?

Where do we go with the protestants calling Catholics "idol worshippers", now they themselves will be exactly the same?

Finally, and without trying to upset anyone; considering that the new catholic, a hybrid of added protestant doctrine of "married clergies", is Cristianity not a religion then of "form it as you go along; always changing and never truly ratified?" The schism or the plot is always moving, ever so slightly. The new millennium ushered in a new dimention, a decade late, almost.


So I woke up this morning, I thank Allah Who gave Muhammad (AS) to finalize Islam, with a completely formed and not changing process, like the others. Guys, you know what I mean.

and the pope was inviting the anglicans and the escopalian denominations to come back, since they are openly ordaining gay leaders, and the catholics (lol) at least a credit to them (~Lady this is for you), are not wholeheartedly embrassing homosexualism! Kudos to the catholics.


Se iwo omo noetic yi ngbo mi?

If Allah Tabaraka wa Taala did not even let Musa (AS) knew the future, which he learnt from Quarda (specifically given knowledge), in Surah Kahf, then only Allah knows the future of Rushdie, you and I! Allah does not wish every apostate to die, as long as they are not in war with Muslim as like the non combatant Pagans of Makka or Madina, and every where else, in the time of the prophet (AS). And as the prophet began taking ransome for the captives from Badr, Allah says that nothing like that must be done unless until His decison, which later came as in the verses in Nisaa that you quoted and in Baqarah which I quoted, whereby both of us believe that they are both relevant, with ahadiths and explanations and understanding of all of them and the tafsir, we must both agree that everything in Islam has its own condition, and exeptions; that include open declaration of shahadah, the different conditions that allows for salah including shortening them, zakah if you can not afford it, saum if there are reasons not to make it, hajj if not financially capable, etc. Ahr'b (war) is also with conditions.

In the Quran, you will find ayah saying to the people who come back to Islam after they left it, that they do not hae to make up all the Salah that they had lost in the period that they left Islam, but only to increase their Ibadat, as in good deeds and remembrance and supplication to Allah, while doing their normal day to day daily duties as muslim, now (Aburo Pligrim; aaye shi wa fun e ni Islam to ba ti she ton ni oro Kiriyo!; my baby sister Pligrim, there is still an opening for you, a Mercy from Allah, after your stinch in Kufr, as long as you wish as long as you remain alive).

Yet Aloy~Emeka has his God has 3 personalities, and not a schizophrenic! Can you believe that? Is that normal, expected of God?

@Abuzola: « #102 on: Today at 05:50:28 PM »

@sir olabowale: There is no sin for an action done prior to prescription.
What has pass has past, a law is effecitive once it is approve so do the law of Allah when it is revealed, former thieves hands won't be chop off, former adulterer won't be stone to death and former apostate won't be put to death

My reason asking you to tell me when was the ayah in Nisaa and its correspondent ahadith were available versus the ayah of Baqarah saying there is no compulsion in religion (verse 256). The later shall be the overbearing ayah, and if one abrogates the other, it will be the later. So proof me wrong because I need knowledge. I need to let you know that Quran verses that are not specific to Muhammad (AS) are always relevant to each of us believers; for example, when a person becomes muslim, if he is sexual person, I will not run him off out of islam with a hardness of the law of Zina. I will rather let him continue to drink from the fountain of Iman, whereby, like the sahabah in time will be immensed in good aqeedah and zina will fall off from him, as he will discover its evilness or later told about it and will accept it, and not walk away from Islam because of it as he had just entered Islam. Quitting a thing that you do all of a sudden is hard, and Allah did not dump everything on the best of generation (Sahabah) in one shot and just as quick as Muhammad (AS) was ordained. Rather Iman of One God was fed to them for 13 years, and only in Madina did the laws came in piecemeal by piecemeal. Why do we have to think that this later generation is to have anything different? Again give me an example of who was killed and the relation of it to Baqarah 256; Laa Iqra fii deeen, Qata baina rushdu minal gaih, faa man yaghfir thaaghut faa yuum bilai, !


@Aloy~Emeka: « #103 on: Today at 07:24:57 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 03:25:43 PM
@Aloy~Emeka: « #98 on: Today at 04:52:01 AM » Thats not true, and you know that personality is attached to an entity. In your case a God. Therefore 3 personalities are three Gods, unless you will be bold enough that your God is a multipersonality God? Then you will open the window of opportunity for me to force you to confess, finally that Jesus and Ghost are not Gods!
I dont drink and I hate the smell of alcohol, and the problem is you who cant be honest about 1 God or more than 1 God(S)!
Can one human being have 2 personalities?

The bolded as an answer to my statement above it, is an indictment of your three personality God, except it is a schrizophenic entity or except you are denying it as such or that you are a worshipper of three Gods!

@Aloy~Emeka: « #98 on: Today at 04:52:01 AM »

This is getting boring because even a 1 year old can get it. 3 personalities is different from three gods. You've tried claiming that TRINITY was derived from Three deities and I set you straight only for you to go back to the initial question.
For the last time: Three visible persons in one God and not three gods in agreement like you want it to be, That is the meaning of the TRIUNE GOd.

Thats not true, and you know that personality is attached to an entity. In your case a God. Therefore 3 personalities are three Gods, unless you will be bold enough that your God is a multipersonality God? Then you will open the window of opportunity for me to force you to confess, finally that Jesus and Ghost are not Gods!

Your primary school teachers should have taught you the meaning of personality . If you can, please refer to the dictionary and stop mixing carousing God's word like palm wine.

I dont drink and I hate the smell of alcohol, and the problem is you who cant be honest about 1 God or more than 1 God(S)!

@Aloy~Emeka: « #97 on: Today at 04:47:06 AM »

First of all, Jesus is talking about "the Law" and "the Prophets". This was the way people of His day refers to the Bible, which we now refer to as the "Old Testament"! The "law" contains all of God's commandments. Jesus clearly says that He did not come to abolish the Old Testament nor its laws, but to fulfill them. What does "fulfill" mean? Let us look to the Bible for clarification.

What about his warning of not abolishing it after

Matt 1:22-23 "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, "God with us.""

what about the not abolishing hence will be least in the kingdom? lol.

Matt 2:14-15 "So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 1where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son.""

what about the continuation of the laws?

Matt 8:17 "This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases.""
John 19:28-29 "Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty.""

Thirsty?

"Fulfilled" clearly means completed. The shadow has met its reality. It has been accomplished.

And after fulfilled; Jesus of the Bible warned "whosoever abolishes it or encourages anyone to abolish it, he shall be called the "least" in the Kingdom of God." Now is the time you should deny this part of the equation. After fufillment, there is the admonitions against abolition or asking anybody to abolish it". Now is the time that you should be told that you Aloy~Emeka is one of the people abrogating or abolishing, rather, your Bible making one verse valid and another invalid! Thats corruption, man.

@Aloy~Emeka: Am shocked that you only gave half of the Biblical statement credited to Jesus! He did not stop at "fulfill" you know, but continued to state that "whosoever abolish or make somebody else abolish" after this fulfillment; meaning the "laws and the Prophets" which you call the Bible as Jesus would have called it, but now OT in your time, carry the weight of continuing to be relevant. Tell me therefore, if the same laws of Moses regarding adultery and fornication, apostasy, stealing, etc are not valid, today? This is your big problem. The bigger problem is as below;


Three personalities means just that; 3. Hence three Gods, three personalities are what you are ignoring, as I am reminding you. Now tell me which personality was tortured and is he not God, according to you?

Then tell me which personality is a ghost or holy spirit, and if you dont call it God?

Finally, tell me if there is no another personality that spoke about 'let there be light'! Now tell me if this personality is nnot yet another God?



how many gods/Gods are there, Aloy~Emeka? There are 3 Personalities, or Three Gods.

Yet, with all the death, when Makka was conquered, there were apostates in Makka and they were not killed, while idols were destroyed! Are you saying to me that the Ayah and the ahadith became active after Makka was opened? If this is so, please give us the period of this Ayah and ahadith, relative to Baqarah 256, and give us an instance of who was killed and circumstances of his/her death, and it is only for leaving Islam.

As far as i know surah Baqarah was one one of the last Surah, the last among the long surahs, while the ayah you are talking about is in Nisaa! The ayah of Surah Baqarah and the ayah of Surah Nisaa do have ahadiths and tafsirs with them respectively and the only human being that know what each means 100% was Muhammad (AS).

When you provide the apostate that was killed, I will provide the reason that he was killed, more than just leaing Islam, and I will further provide an apostate who was not killed, and opinions of contemporary ulama and muhaddittan, in the general sense to give support to my position. But the greatest support is the Many ayah of Quran, except if you can say that Allah abrogates all of them with that simple ayah in Nisaa, and the ahadith was just what it states, needing no explanation, then we will see that all persons who leave all religion will fall into this condition.

@Abuzola: #78 on: October 18, 2009, 09:00 PM »

I have an assignment for you olabowale, You are quick to say any hadith that does not have backing with the Quran is invalid
Quote me in the Quran where muslim were instructed to perform zuhr and asr prayer with four rakat and starting with suratul fatiha as opening prayer. Waiting ,,,,

we both agree, i think that zuhr prayer is instructed in surah muminu, and Muhammad (as) explains it by ahadith and or sunnah to be four (4) rakah. by the way the companions made exactly the same amount of rakah, after the death of the prophet, and no one has changed it yet. and if any does, it will be rejeceted and unacceptable, just like mommar ghadaffi's surah iklas without the beginnig "Qul!"

with the above in mind, please tell me where every apostate was killed by the prophet or the sahaba (RA) after him (AS), even with the singular ahadith which says "if anyone (meaning without any exception) changes his religion (all religions or every religion) kill him (without any other reason, in addition to just leaving islam)". that ahadith, if it has no further explanation for a specific group of those to be killed, then everyone would be killed by anybody.

if you specify islam as the religion, then those who come to it will be killed as well as those who leave it.

if you now say that it is is for those who leave it, reading your specific meaning, then the former sahaba who converted to christianity in abasha (ethiopia) would have been killed by the sahaba who remained in ethiopia, and they must have better understanding of islam than you and i, while the prophet was alive with them. now i wonder why muhammad (as) did not instruct wholesale killing of all apostate, including the ones who left islam immediately after Isra wa Miraj? you will expect that he will ask for their heads after Makka was conquered. dont do you think so?

so why didnt Jesus throw the first stone, if he did not sin?

if he was showing his mercy, by helping the woman away from the sinners, he should have thrown the "proverbial gesture stone" if he was not a sinner!

now thats the truth. a really world apart.

My people what is wrong is wrong. And in islam, I do condemn terrorism and terrorists, as if they are not Muslilms, since the ideology is not Islamic. And my mother was a Christian for almost 80 years, and I went to Christian schools, roommated with christians, married one, and many times did I read the devotional passages from the Bible.

You cant say that I know about Christianity through hear-say, with my taking BK in WAEC. Yes? My people, how do you not get upset that a filthy man came to Nigeria and abuse our women, when no Nigerian can do that in their own land without being arested and jailed? I know, because I am living among them, that is my issue, and of course, I am a MUSLIM!

My problem in all of this is her saying that she came from a muslim family. How did she get entangled with Trinity? The lying doctrine that looks good only on the tongue and on paper to seduce the gullible souls!

If the public face of Christianity, a notable reverend cant keep his fly closed, while pretending to be celebated, what do we expect from others, except free will sex of anything goes, as long as you believe in the "ghostly" crucifixion, etc?

I weep from my heart for Islam, and I blame the so called leadership which have done shuddy job of not protecting its own, creating communities and atmosphere of harmony and happiness and comradry among the worshippers, so that they do not have too many stray and lonely sheep which the wolves of disbelief, as in the above easily snatch up and devour without a single drop of blood to trace her former existence.

Shame on the Burke guy; the last I know, even in my days, 18 years old boy didnt sleep with a 14 year old girls. Here we are, a darn "nejess" came from the bayou of europe to abuse nigerian and african women; a people with solid culture! Where were the shepards; the parents, when they tended not a single effort to now how the lamb was fairing that a wolf in black sheep clothing and a white collar for a bell to announce its coming, all watered up in the mouth, can just kill a soul like that? Shame on te parents I say, and I did not expect better from the Christians anyhow, since they can accept 3 gods for 1, so whats the big deal, if their women in their culture is defiled?

if davidylan didnt have ijebu name, he probably will deny that he is a yoruba man, by his demanding that people should pray for israel, while he never at anytime make even a request for african prayer, or 9ja prayer, or yoruba prayer or the very ijebu ode blood that is very prominent in his veins?david, respond and call me out please. omo obanta to ni ki won magbadura fun juu. awon alsho dudu omo atowunrewa ti won paa oloun david.


@marbron alhamdulIllah, Ibrahim had more than Isiaq, and Yaquub was the only child of Isiaq, so where do fit the children from other than Yaquub/Israil? even when the children of Israil are doers of evil, are they still covered under Ibrahim's relationship? let me just ask you this, will any of the children of Israel, now considdering yourself Israelite, will end up in hellfire and why, if Ibrahim is really the source, even in perception of your old and new covenants?

i wonder if nezan even try to reflect on anything at all? considering that Angels come to earth, just like that, is distance not relative, based on your knowledge and that of the All-Knower? and long time before any space exploration, Quran talks about it in Surah Rahman, so I wonder if it knows the actual distance and positions of things called celestral?!

I am amased at your thought process and i am very confident that you are the winner in this argument! at least you are not changing or moving a bit, with your heels already dug in the sand!

abulbanaat may be busy with other aspects of his life, can you imagine his not leaving all of those to attend to nezan's?

@Nezan:

Furthermore: Yusuf Ali in his commentary reports that Zul-qarnain is thought to be Alexander the Great. And so does the "Concise Dictionary of Islam." Looking at verses 98-101, this would make Alexander the Great a Muslim -- 1000 years before Muhammad. Yet that is for sure not true. The history does not relate that Alexander the Great had any other religion than the pagan Greeks he came from and ruled over. This is historically blatantly false.

And long time, before 1000 years ago, there was Islam, so Nezan and his masters on the web, whats your argument, really? When Noah was a muslim, and even Adam was a muslim, could it be very hard to believe a person after these noble men (AS) to be muslim, too?

« #87 on: Today at 10:53:44 AM »
contradiction 12:

In the Qur'an we find the following statements about the moon and the stars:

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ,
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps , (67:3,5)
And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded, (41:12)

We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. (37:6)

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

The above is Yusuf Ali's translation. Pickthall renders Sura 71:16 as

And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?
The Qur'an seems to teach that there are seven heavens, one above the other, whether it was imagined to be like storeys in a high building (flat layers) or like shells or the layers of an onion.

As a poetic way of expression this is acceptable, even though there are, scientifically speaking, no discernable stages in the universe that would allow us to differentiate between those various heavens.

Heavens as "eaven" as a whole is unknown, unseen. No scientific exploration can reach the lowest heaven, and at best in what is under the lowest heaven. But then we humans called eveything above in the sky, farther than our vision Heaven! So what you can never know, except you have a superior information source is to give accurate information about what is not easily known. This is the reason Muhammad's materials on the above and about all things mention in the Quran and yes, Jesus are correct, since he said its from Allah through spiritual revelations!

However, the Qur'an specifically assigns the stars to a lower or even the lowest heaven, while it states the relationship of the moon to the totality of the seven heavens is that it is "in them" (fehinna). This gives the impression that the moon is at least as far away as the stars if not further.

Lets accept that fahinna means "in them", a position that must be correct as we on earth consider everything far up as heaven/heavens and it is clear that the moon is up there, too. No? Didnt Muhammad split the moon and is there heaven obscuring the moon, or do we see the heaven before we see the moon on a full moon night? May Allah help us if Nezan holds the secret of Nigeria, though I dont live in it, but I find its peril if Nezan is in charge!

But everyone knows today that the stars are much much further away from the earth than the moon. This is not a small difference, it is an issue of several magnitudes. The average distance from the earth to the moon is 384,400 km, while Proxima Centauri, the closest star to us outside of the solar system, is already about 4.3 light years = 40,682,300,000,000 km (40 trillion kilometers) away, or expressed differently, we need to multiply the distance of the moon by more than 100 million to reach even the nearest of all the stars.

And Allah says that a day with your Lord, is like 50,000 years in human period, in one verse and 5 or 10 in another, only to show comparative timing and distances, yet time is not one of the factor/elements that is play with Allah. We should now have ability to reflect.

« #86 on: Today at 10:49:57 AM »  

contradiction 11:
Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ,  
-- Sura Sura 18:86
Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun,
he found it rising on a people
for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.
-- Sura Sura 18:90
First: It is scientifically proven that the sun does not go down in a muddy spring.

Thats not a smart analysis of the verse. With wisdom you will realise that muddy is equal to murky (not clear, cant see through it). A spring is water body, and by Allah when the light is weak, as it is the time of sunset, you cant see the water bottom anymore or clearly because the surface is now murky or muddy looking.

Second: This seems to presuppose a flat earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? It does not say, he went as far as possible on land in these directions and then observed the sun-rise or sun-set while standing at this shore. A sunrise there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is setting "far away". It does say, that he reached THE PLACE where the sun sets and in his second journey the place where it rises.

Are there directings of rising and setting of the sun? Yes and to each of us, it is the east and west respectively, since the earth rotates in a perticular direction, showing our eastern part first and the west later. And visually, we see that the sun rises and sets, as the earth rotates, though we do not feel its rotation! There is no indication of a flat earth but a vanishing earth land based on our visual perception, as you stand and look with your limited capability of sight. We see a curvature on earth, even within a isual distance of 500 yards, so for you to assume that the Quran is talking of flat earth is absurd, except that it is a continuous earth, agreed between land and water, that is! And when it is stated that it reached a place where the sun sets, it simply means a place at the time of SUNSET. It is even time and sun was setting on the water surface, which he saw an MURKY, unclear, unlike the surface look at say 12.00 pm on a clear, no cloudy but sunny afternoon. Try to see Niger River at the time of unset and compare it to its clear look at midday in July!

Furthermore: Yusuf Ali in his commentary reports that Zul-qarnain is thought to be Alexander the Great. And so does the "Concise Dictionary of Islam." Looking at verses 98-101, this would make Alexander the Great a Muslim -- 1000 years before Muhammad. Yet that is for sure not true. The history does not relate that Alexander the Great had any other religion than the pagan Greeks he came from and ruled over. This is historically blatantly false.

The story which is read in Surah kahf speaks about a powerful person with all the means to help or accomplish a mission, with authority reaching very far and wide, who helped a people to be secured away from an evil race. This must be something of the past, long before Muhammad (AS), a story told by him, in revelation from his Creator, the Author of the Quran. Now Islam of Adam must be crude and almost not resemble the Islam of Ibrahim and that of Ibrahim must not as refined and structured as that of Muhammad! But each has a purity of worship in obedience to Allah, alone, the yardstick of Islam. Now, tell me where in the Quran in Arabic that you found Alexander, except Dhul Qarnain? Muhammad (AS) never gave a name of Alexander.

The Arrogance of Fir`awn and His ultimate Destiny

Allah tells us of Fir`awn's disbelief and wrongdoing, and how he falsely claimed divinity for his evil self, may Allah curse him. (Thus he fooled his people, and they obeyed him.) [43:54] He called on his people to recognize his divinity, and they responded, because of their weak and foolish minds. So, he said: (O chiefs! I know not that you have a god other than me.) Allah tells us about Fir`awn:

(Then he gathered (his people) and cried aloud, saying: "I am your lord, most high.'' So Allah, seized him with punishment for his last and first transgression. Verily, in this is an instructive admonition for whosoever fears Allah.) (79:23-26) meaning: he brought his people together and called to them in a loud voice, shouting that, and they responded to him obediently. So Allah took revenge on him, and made him a lesson to others in this world and the Hereafter. He even confronted Musa with that, and said: (If you choose a god other than me, I will certainly put you among the prisoners) (26:29).

(So kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Sarh in order that I may look at the God of Musa He commanded his minister and adviser Haman to bake bricks for him, i.e., to make bricks in order to build a Sarh, a exalted towering palace. This is like the Ayah, (And Fir`awn said: "O Haman! Build me a Sarh that I may arrive at the ways -- the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the God of Musa, but verily, I think him to be a liar.''

Thus it was made fair seeming, in Fir`awn's eyes, the evil of his deeds, and he was hindered from the path; and the plot of Fir`awn led to nothing but loss and destruction) (40:36-37). Fir`awn built this tower, which was the highest structure ever seen on earth, (At that moment in time; an engineering wonder and monument just like the the pyramids are) because he wanted to show his people that Musa was lying when he claimed that there was a God other than Fir`awn. Fir`awn said: (and verily, I think that he (Musa) is one of the liars.) meaning, `when he says that there is a lord other than me.' The issue was not whether Allah had sent Musa, because he did not acknowledge the existence of the Creator in the first place. On the contrary, he said: (And what is the Lord of Al-`Alamin) (26:23) and:

(If you choose a god other than me, I will certainly put you among the prisoners.) (26:29) and he said: (O chiefs! I know not that you have a god other than me.) This was the view of Ibn Jarir. (And he and his armies were arrogant in the land, without right, and they thought that they would never return to Us.) means, they were arrogant oppressors who spread much mischief in the land, and they believed that there would be no Resurrection. (So, your Lord poured on them different kinds of severe torment. Verily, your Lord is Ever Watchful (over them).) (89:13-14). Allah says here:

(So, We seized him and his armies, and We threw them all into the sea.) meaning, `We drowned them in the sea in a single morning, and not one of them was left.' (So, behold what was the end of the wrongdoers. And We made them leaders inviting to the Fire) for those who followed them and took the same path as they did, rejecting the Messengers and denying the Creator. (and on the Day of Resurrection, they will not be helped.) their humiliation in this world is combined with and connected to their humiliation in the Hereafter, as Allah says:

(We have destroyed them. And there was none to help them) (47:13). (And We made a curse to follow them in this world,) Allah decreed that they and their king Fir`awn should be cursed by the believers among His servants who follow His Messengers, just as in this world they were cursed by the Prophets and their followers, (and on the Day of Resurrection, they will be among disgraced.) Qatadah said, "This Ayah is like the Ayah, (They were pursued by a curse in this (life) and on the Day of Resurrection. Evil indeed is the gift given.) (11:99).''

(43. And indeed We gave Musa -- after We had destroyed the generations of old -- the Scripture as an enlightenment for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy, that they might remember.)

N.B. You people failed to respond to the other contradictions!!!
@Nezan: Posted on: Today at 10:38:47 AMPosted by: Nezan

Insert Quote
Quote; Stone construction in Egypt: Like the other great river valley cultures, Egypt built its cities with mud brick; fired brick did not appear there until Roman times. Timber was used sparingly, for it was never abundant. It was used mainly in roofs, where it was heavily supplemented by reeds. Only a few royal buildings were built with full timber frames.
Thank you for backing my argument. Your koran erroneosly argued that Egyptians used 'fired bricks' against 'mud bricks', and abulbanaat was trying to let me believe that 'cut stone' means 'fired bricks'. So much for islam, 'boko haram'!

My saying that fired brick did not appear could not have been translated by educated mind to mean that the idea of this method of brick making was at least thought about before, and could not mean that a structure was not at least designed with it. It simply means from my understanding that this technology was not established yet or widespread, a commonly used yet. Your Bible even was saying someting like that; check your previous entry out below; the part below bolded.
Entry made by Nezan:
« #34 on: October 14, 2009, 10:47 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. 5

A Tower of Burnt bricks in Egypt?
How did it get there?

And Pharaoh said: O chiefs! I know not that ye have a god other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake the mud; and set up for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey the god of Moses; and lo! I deem him of the liars. [Sura 28:38]
This is a very interesting verse for several reasons.

This command of Pharaoh is a problem for the authenticity and accuracy of the Qur'an since at the time of Moses Egyptians didn't construct buildings out of burnt clay, i.e. this is a historical contradiction. See the dictionary entry on Bricks for more details.

The next question would be to ask, where this motive comes from. Interestingly, there is a well-known story which fits these details. In Genesis 11:3-4a we read:


They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, "Come let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches heaven, , "
The original story of Moses and Pharaoh as reported in the Torah, the book of Exodus, reports historically accurate of the Israelites being forced to make bricks with straw (which are then sun-dried). This story has no mentioning of a tower for Pharaoh to reach God.

It seems that the author of the Qur'an confused or for other reasons conflated these two stories from the Torah, the Exodus of Israel and the tower of Babel.

@Nezan« #82 on: Today at 10:20:59 AM »
[Quote]mohammed claimed to receive the koranic revelation, was dictating it to be written on leaves (of which a goat ate parts), hides etc, Jesus never claim to receive any injeel! He never dictated any injeel to be written down! what the koran erroneously tried to potray as the injeel was not written down by Jesus, neither did He commanded His disciples to write it down! the disciples were rather lead by the Holy Spirit to write down a recollection of the teachings, life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, contrary to the false claims of the koran.[/quote]When Jesus was reported to have preached the Gospel, was it already written down by the writers, then, while Jesus was still here, what was meant by "preach the Gospel" relative to Jesus preaching among his people? I thought Jesus left before they wrote it down, so how did he preach what was not revealed to him, but was a collection of his preaching, life works, etc by people left behind?


[Quote]« #83 on: Today at 10:29:24 AM »
Quote
where did the children of Israel, a mere race of slaves got the Gold (a simple example of heritage of Free slave owners' egyptians) which tey used to make the Golden calf? They found it on the way in the wilderness or took it from the Egyptians, since slaves dont really acquire anything, and we cant make the Israelites an exception in this old age historical rue of thimb of master /slave wealth acquisitions?
This is where I always say the koran was a bad plagiarisation of the Bible. When the Israelites were coming out of Egypt, God caused the Egyptians to give the Israelites gifts of gold, silver, etc, which were later used to make the calf. No wonder the koran is full of contradictions.[/quote]Have you seen a Jew before? He can talk you to give your last Kobo to him, while he has a pile high of Naira! I wonder if the Egyptians who have been berieved will simply and easily give gifts to their slaves who have caused them so much sadness as they lost their first born, as they are leaving this work for nothing position will give gifts of the most expensive thing; Gold and others? American blacks are still waiting for the promised 40 Acres and a Mule, from the USA, and you expect the egyptian victims in their tyranny to give their possessions to the Children of Israel, and yet America is more liberal and cant even fulfill their own promise?


[Quote]
Allah calls the person from the company of the Children of Israel in the wilderness samiri or samiriyu in sentence. Where is the problem? Its a name of a person and thats it, while you make a mountain out of a mere mole!
So what are we to believe now? Yusuf Alli said the name mean watchman.
abulbanaat said the name means somebody from Iraq
olabowale said its the name of a person
Is this not delusion?[/quote]Whats delutional about it? Alhamdulillah, each one of us is describing a single man, and not a tribe! More importantly, he must have left with them from Egypt or joined up with them on the way, but was already an accepted companion at the eent of golden calf. What I saw was Samiri, an identity of a person, a proper name! I am called Babajebu in my family by my inlaws who are not from Ijebu bloodlines. I am called Olabowale because its a name for me. Yet am called others, my muslim name, and Mr. when my family name is used, and father of Lai by my mother, and others as they wish. But it is still me; same here as Samiri is a name of the leader of idol worshipping at the time of exodus of the Israelites.

@Nezan: « #81 on: Today at 10:10:57 AM »  

@olabowale,
Quote
Crucifixion was widely used within the Roman Empire to execute either slaves or rebels.
Next time you are coming into an argument, try to read the preceeding posts to know what is been discussed. I was the one trying to educate abulbanaat that crucifixion was not used in ancient egypt at the time of Moses, that the koran goofed on this! as you rightly pointed out, it was much later that the Roman Empire began to use this as a means of capital punishment.

Nezan, you are a very dishonest soul. What I wrote is more than what you mentioned for me. I indicated that crucifixion is more than a cross death, but included ordinary stake! Read my statement, again, below:  
Posted on: October 16, 2009, 10:26 PMPosted by: olabowale  
Insert Quote @Nezan:  Crucifixion: A method of carrying out the death penalty which involved physical abuse of the victim, stripping him/her of all clothing, tying or nailing the arms and legs to a cross or stake, and abandoning the victim to die. The corpse was often partly eaten by scavengers. The body was generally denied a proper burial; it was tossed on a garbage heap. Crucifixion was widely used within the Roman Empire to execute either slaves or rebels.

I really wonder the point you are trying to make? The fact is that the koran goofed when it said that the egyptians worshipped many gods, and in another breathe, said that pharoah was the god of the egyptians. Better compose yourself and come up with a comprehendable explanation. If pharoah was egypt's god, why refer to egyptians then as polytheists? simple question.

Even you today, you are a polytheist! You have a big God; Father and smaller gods; Jesus is one that you use his name to appease or appeal to the big God as follows in your prayer "in jesus name, " No? When push really comes to shove you say the big god is really your God, because he created everything, and the small God, Jesus did not come to existence until "lets there be light as a word of Big God"!

No?. And before this; Abraham destroyed all the smaller gods, gods of his people by all means, but left the big god so that he can make fun of their foolishness, shocking them back to some good sense/common sense, which they fail to accept, because of arrogance. It is the same form of arrogance that you and the christians have when you make a common man a God along with his Creator, and equate His angel (Jibril) as god with Him, too.

Now, none of the gods of egypt can animated, alive like human, except the priests act on their figurine behaves. Hence Pharaoh in his arrogance, as I have said made himself also god, now more than a king so that he can suppress his people's ability to free themselves and emancipate themselves into the truth of Musa (AS). You cant deny the truth, by now.

@Aloy~Emeka: « #89 on: Today at 02:00:24 AM »

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:55:50 AM
@Aloy~Emeka: « #80 on: Today at 01:19:41 AM » Tri at least three. Is Trinity not a combination of Tri and Deity, meaning 3 Gods, since Deity means god? Aloy~Emeka, are you telling me that three persons in One God is what you a brainiac worship? Lol. (Wrong belief is a very wrong thing for a good heart; it polutes it!)
.
Liar liar apata afaya. TriUnity= Trinity and not TriDeity. TriUne God it is so check your facts well before posting them.

Lol! You become cranky; wow. Tri is 3, Unity is agreement in purpose or something like that. No? Then tell me you are not saying Trinity is 3 are in agreement in purpose? So where did God come in then; 3 gods in agreement in purpose?

You have to explain this out on your own, and I will not stop kneading you with it! So Aloy~Emeka, are you saying that you have 1 God in "3" persons? So what happened to the godly strength as in concentration of Godship when you claimed one of them died, or when he was fighting death in hell? All of these you Christians use to elevate Jesus, furthering your Trinity concept, while I am very certain that you insult the Creator Who is neither a father, nor a chair sitting, nor son, nor errant running spirit, or Jesus!

I guess I took care of this question in Mushin's thread. Christ came because of these laws. Didn't you notice they are Jewish laws found in the new testament?

I guess you meant Mattew or Matt and not Math 15:4?. Instead of copying and pasting wrongly, why not copy the whole text and you will notice it's a quotation in the old testament that Jesus used to answer the questions the threw at him. Read the full text and let me know where you read Jesus say such a thing:

The same OT that you guys say its now a one line :love your God and neighbor? Are you paying attention to what Jesus said about not abrogating the laws and the prophets?

And are you denying that Jesus called himself Prophet or even son of man, yet you worship him, man?

@Aloy~Emeka: « #80 on: Today at 01:19:41 AM »  

They are not. Trinity does not mean three Gods. It means three persons/forms in one God. The holy spirit is one of them which is the active force of God, Jesus is God personified etc.

Tri at least three. Is Trinity not a combination of Tri and Deity, meaning 3 Gods, since Deity means god? Aloy~Emeka, are you telling me that three persons in One God is what you a brainiac worship? Lol. (Wrong belief is a very wrong thing for a good heart; it polutes it!).

Let me ask you the same question Olabowale asked me in another thread: If you believe that God is most powerful, why is it difficult for you to believe that he can manifest in different forms?.

Some things forbids Himself; comingling with, or being one of or behaving like His creation is one of them; Jesus behaved and actually was one of the creations. God allows people to live out their lives; drink all the allotted liquids, eat all the foods allotted to them, breath all the air, without shortchanging them and no one can prolonged or increase any of them. The issue is this, Allah is different from Maqluq (creatures). Creator is different from creation.

Surah Saff (61 verse 6); The Good News of `Isa about Our Prophet and that His Name is Ahmad

Allah said; (And when `Isa, son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawrah before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.'') `Isa said, "The Tawrah conveyed the glad tidings of my coming, and my coming confirms the truth of the Tawrah. I convey the glad tidings of the Prophet who will come after me. He is the unlettered, Makkan, Arab Prophet and Messenger, Ahmad.'' `Isa, peace be upon him, is the last and final Messenger from among the Children of Israel. He remained among the Children of Israel for a while, conveying the good news of the coming of Muhammad, whose name is also Ahmad, the Last and Final Prophet and Messenger. After Muhammad, there will be no prophethood or Messengers.

How admirable the Hadith is that Al-Bukhari collected in his Sahih from Jubayr bin Mut`im, who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah say, (I have names. I am Muhammad and Ahmad. I am Al-Mahi through whom Allah will eliminate disbelief. I am Al-Hashir who will be the first to be resurrected, with the people being resurrected Hereafter. I am also Al-`Aqib (i.e., there will be no Prophet after me).'') Also Muslim collected this Hadith from Az-Zuhri from Jubayr. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Khalid bin Ma`dan said that some Companions of Allah's Messenger said, "O Allah's Messenger! Tell us about yourself.''


He said; (I am the (result of the) invocation made to Allah from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa delivered. my mother was pregnant with me, she had a dream in which she saw a light emanating from her that radiated the palaces of Busra in Ash-Sham.'' This Hadith has a good chain of narration that is supported by other similar narrations. Imam Ahmad recorded that Al-`Irbad bin Sariyah said, "The Messenger of Allah said, (I was written with Allah as the Last and Final of the Prophet, even when Adam was still clay. I will tell of the first good news announcing my advent, the (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim, the good news `Isa conveyed, and the dream that my mother saw. The mothers of all Prophets see similar dreams.'')


Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said, "I said, `O Allah's Messenger! What was the first good news of your coming' He said, (The (result of the) invocation to Allah made from my father Ibrahim and the good news `Isa conveyed. My mother saw a light emanating from her that filled the palaces of Ash- Sham in a dream.)'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah sent eighty men, including `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, Ja`far bin Abi Talib, `Abdullah bin `Urfutah, `Uthman bin Maz`un, Abu Musa, and others, to An-Najashi. The Quraysh sent `Amr bin Al-`As and `Umarah bin Al-Walid with a gift for An-Najashi. When they, `Amr and `Umarah, came to An-Najashi, they prostrated before him and stood to his right and left. `Amr and `Umarah said, "Some of our cousins migrated to your land; they have abandoned us and our religion.'' An-Najashi said, "Where are they'' They said, "They are in your land, so send for them,'' so An-Najashi summoned the Muslims. Ja`far said to the Muslims, "I will be your speaker today.'' So, the Muslims followed Ja`far and when he entered on the king he did not prostrate after greeting him.


They said to Ja`far, "Why do you not prostrate before the king'' Ja`far said, "We only prostrate for Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored.'' They said, "Why'' He said, "Allah has sent a Messenger to us from Him, who ordered us not to prostrate to anyone except Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored. He also ordered to perform prayer and give charity.'' `Amr bin Al-`As said, "They contradict your creed about `Isa, son of Maryam.'' The king asked, "What do you say about `Isa and his mother Maryam'' Ja`far said, "We only say what Allah said about him, that he is Allah's Word, a soul created by Allah and sent down to the honorable virgin who was not touched by a man nor bearing children before.'' An-Najashi lifted a straw of wood and said, "O Ethiopians, monks and priests! By Allah, what they say about `Isa is no more than what we say about him, not even a difference that equals this straw. (My statement:This christian is the truth, a reason that we have some Christian prostrating like Muslims, in Ethiopia, though they must entered some corruptions into it, they now take Jesus to be more than what he was, rejecting Muhammad and his brand of Islam).


Al Nagashi of Ethiopia said: "You are welcomed among us, and greetings to him who sent you. I bear witness that he is Allah's Messenger whom we read about in the Injil. He is the Prophet who `Isa, son of Maryam, foretold the good news about his advent. Live wherever you wish. By Allah, had I not been entrusted with the responsibilities of kingship, I would have gone to him, so that I could be honored by carrying his slippers and his water for ablution.'' The king ordered that the gifts of the idolators be returned to them. `Abdullah bin Mas`ud soon returned and later on participated in the battle of Badr. He said that when the Prophet received the news that An-Najashi died, he invoked Allah to forgive him. (The reason one makes Salatul Ghaib (Unseen) when people died, without their body being recovered, as in fire or drowning etc!).


Allah said, (But when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic.'') this refers to Ahmad, who was anticipated, in accordance with the early Scriptures and early generations, according to Ibn Jurayj and Ibn Jarir. When the Prophet appeared bringing clear signs, the disbelievers and rejecters said, (This is plain magic) (7. And who does more wrong than the one who invents a lie against Allah, while he is being invited to Islam And Allah guides not the people who are wrongdoers.) (8. They intend to put out the Light of Allah with their mouths. But Allah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it).) (9. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to make it victorious over all religions even though idolators hate (it).)

@dexmond:« #19 on: October 08, 2009, 09:14 PM »

Now I have successfully gotten you to contradict your prophets action as regards Torah (Old Testament)
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:
A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.
They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee. He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi' (No. 4431)." (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4434)

I doubt if you realise that what the prophet had done, by Inspiration from Allah, is to call the Children of Israel (Jews) to that particular truth in their Torah? But of course, you truncated the ahadith, not including the fact that they covered the part that says the adultery offenders must be stoned, except someone removed the hands of the Jewish liar, since the UNLETTERED Muhammad (AS) demanded and insisted on a correct and accurate reading! How did he know, except Allah revealed it to him! While the Jews stone to death for fornication, you guys say that no harm committed even for adultery and we punish by caning the fornicator, and stone the adultery people, after a due process.

Now which is a better deal; no wonder Allah says the Muslim is a community of middle course, not extreme in either case, like the Jews and the Christians.

You do not obey nor follow the teachings of your own prophet who himself was inconsistent about his doctrine.

How is a prophet inconsistent, and you are quoting his inconsitency to proof his action which you cant deny as "inconsistent!" If Musa says there is stoning, and you said Jesus of the Bible says no stoning, where is consistency in the Bible, especially when Toral says this and Gospel says the complete opposite, yet the Jews still brought their case to Muhammad (AS) so that he can judge them like Musa would; a proof that he is like Musa! NO? Dexmond, you can see how weak your argument is; you kinda remind me of Fela's "You miss road" lyrics of the yesteryears!


The message of Jesus is two folds and you will find it without wasting too much time is Surah Saffa verse 6: He was to reinerate whatever is truthful that Musa (AS) brought by his Toral, as Jesus preached the same along with new materials given to him in his Injil, as he the second part talks about the final messenger whose name is Ahmad (AS). These two issues are defined clearly in the Gospel by; I do not come to destroy the laws and prophets, but to fulfill them (making them relevant all the way) and who ever abrogates or encourages anyone to do so, shall be the least in the end, at the kingdom and hellfire shall belongs to him, being the least position a person can occupy. And the proclamation that the people should expect a future comforter addresses Muhammad as Ahmad. Details of One God and all including Jesus have this God as One Lord is a culmunation of both issue, since before Jesus, a prophet and the book given to him, there were prophets and books revealed to them: Moses Torah, David Sabur!

And before Jesus there were prophets who told their community to make Salah (I assure you that when you go on google, you will find videos "Prostration in daily jewish Prayer" and similar videos of Jews making Islamic salah gestures; standing, bowing and prostrating. And in the christian situation; "Possible origin of Islamic prostration" a silly Christian proposition that Islam copied them, while the majority of the Christian reject this as if thats a good argument!, and "Early Christian prayers", "the Jesus prayer", each is a video source! And prophets have been fasting before Jesus (Moses fasted for 40 days at the condition of his receiving the laws. Jesus did not bring any new religion, and neither did Muhammad, nor Musa (AS), all following in succession the religion given to Adam, mankind, and Ibrahim (AS) was first inspired to mention it as himself Muslim, even though Islam have been on longer and earlier time!

Am not a christian, but am sure this has nothing to do with Christianity, but those who misunderstand even the statement of Paul will find a reason for this evil act, in the Bible.
@Skyone, are you listening.

say what you want. in my experience after 911, i could just say the same about Christianity and jews, etc as it is wars and wars. then you will have to say to me it is politics; i will just have to ignore you because of my experience that your statement bears no accurate merit, but of pure fallacy, the reason for my outright dsagreement with you. i probably would have been living under the shadow of my own gun, in nigeria, if the arm robbers are a thing thought about everytime in my day to day life, if i live there!

let address the satoric issue for a moment as it relate to innocence. can a person who started a rancor be considered innocent? not likely. but the Quran says that no one must revenge or avenge more than he/she had been wronged. hence, if the prophet was going to pay the woman in her own coin, he would have just constructed a poem just a hard in emotional slamming. but that was not his nature, by many examples; he forgave the makkans when he was clearly a person in power. he forgave the jewish woman who poison him, when it was clear that what she had done was a thing with intention to terminate his life. the person who used to put obstacles and impurities in his path, he forgave and vistted during the period of the illness of the person, the reason of accepting islam.

considering that each of these are bigger evils and the jew was not an arab, yet he forgave, i wonder if the poet was killed for her satire, or was it for other offense, against Allah and not the mere poem on Muhammad (AS)? i say the former is the answer!

@Abuzola: « #68 on: Today at 11:56:18 AM »

This is the 4th hadith am quoting to you people, if you like nullify it again
ABU DAWUD hadith, arabic version, vol 4, page 126. 'kitaab al hudud'
ibn Abbas reported the Holy Prophet saying,'whoever changes his religion should be put to death'

No relogion, no people to do the killing is specified. So by the face of it, anyone could kill anybody who change his/her religion to another or no religion at all. Even if from other religion to yours. This will be a horrible knowledge, except that the people of knowledge of ahadith will give a full explanation, and this must agree with Quran and the natural disposition of the prophet (AS)!

'and whoever opposes the messenger (muhammad) after the right path has been shown clearly to him and follow other than the believer way,We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in hell. What an evil destination' Quran 4:115

This verse talks about allowing them to be alive, as it expresses "keeping him in the path", futhering the conclusion at death and day of judgement as "burning him in hell" is indicated, since no hell fire is on earth.

@Abuzola: « #61 on: Today at 09:04:34 AM »  

Sir olabowale~ saudi arabia did not ban women from driving, i went to saudi arabia as a matter of fact I saw a woman driving jeep, this are lies by the media.

Saudi arabia are sunni nation, strictly Quran and hadith, anything that does not go with sunnah or Quran they dismiss it, this is the true doctrine of a true believer. So forget the fact that they may make mistake, Islamic scholars are the pillar of the nation

My dear brother do not worship Saudi Arabia, replacing Allah and His Messenger by Saudi. I do business there. I have a lawyer friend from America living there: Madina at the invitation of their government, for education policies. Saudi and indeed the larger arab and muslim world, ignorantly degress the conditions of women, from the full partnership that they had during the prophet (AS) to people walking at the fringes, right now. While many men think their wives are responsible for cleaning, cooking, housekeeping, etc. But thats not what one will find in the Quran! It is clear that the one who understands Quran best was Muhammad (AS) the receiver of this noble Book, hence, one will have to look at his interaction with women, etc to make pure judgement. I will not look at Saudi as an ideal Islamic country, but maybe the best that we have today. And that is not speaking volume about the state of Kalifah-less islam presently. It will just as naive to assume that Zamfara is an ideal islamic state, considering that wearing beard is not even the governor practices, yet, this particular injuction can be traced to Quranic verse of "not changing one gender natural appearnace!", and the ahadith supported it, since Allah also said whatever Muhammad gives take and what he forbids, walk away from it.

 

« #62 on: Today at 09:07:28 AM »
',,, but if they turn back (from islam) take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither auliya nor helpers from them' Quran 4:89

Below is the Tafsir of this very verse; You will see that the former muslims are even divided into many subclasses and its their hostility and not their mere leaving Islam that warants a fight of kill or be killed towards them.

Combatants and Noncombatants: Allah excluded some people; (Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace),) meaning, except those who join and take refuge with a people with whom you have a pact of peace, or people of Dhimmah, then treat them as you treat the people with whom you have peace. This is the saying of As-Suddi, Ibn Zayd and Ibn Jarir. In his Sahih, Al-Bukhari recorded the story of the treaty of Al-Hudaybiyyah, where it was mentioned that whoever liked to have peace with Quraysh and conduct a pact with them, then they were allowed. Those who liked to have peace with Muhammad and his Companions and enter a pact with them were allowed.

It was reported that Ibn `Abbas said that this was later abrogated by Allah's statement; (Then when the Sacred Months have passed, kill the idolators wherever you find them) Allah said; (or those who approach you with their breasts restraining) referring to another type of people covered by the exclusion from fighting. They are those who approach the Muslims with hesitation in their hearts because of their aversion to fighting the Muslims. They do not have the heart to fight with the Muslims against their own people. Therefore, they are neither with nor against Muslims. (Had Allah willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you.) meaning, it is from Allah's mercy that He has stopped them from fighting you.

(So, if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace,) meaning, they revert to peace, (then Allah has opened no way for you against them), you do not have the right to kill them, as long as they take this position. This was the position of Banu Hashim (the tribe of the Prophet ), such as Al-`Abbas, who accompanied the idolators in the battle of Badr, for they joined the battle with great hesitation. This is why the Prophet commanded that Al-`Abbas not be killed, but only captured. Allah's statement, (You will find others that wish to have security from you and security from their people.) refers to a type of people who on the surface appear to be like the type we just mentioned. However, the intention of each type is different, for the latter are hypocrites. They pretend to be Muslims with the Prophet and his Companions, so that they could attain safety with the Muslims for their blood, property and families. However, they support the idolators in secret and worship what they worship, so that they are at peace with them also. These people have secretly sided with the idolators, just as Allah described them,

(But when they are alone with their Shayatin, they say: "Truly, we are with you.''). In this Ayah, Allah said, (Every time they are sent back to Fitnah, they yield thereto.) meaning, they dwell in Fitnah. As-Suddi said that the Fitnah mentioned here refers to Shirk. Ibn Jarir recorded that Mujahid said that the Ayah was revealed about a group from Makkah who used to go to the Prophet [in Al-Madinah] pretending to be Muslims. However, when they went back to Quraysh, they reverted to worshipping idols. They wanted to be at peace with both sides. Allah commanded they should be fought against, unless they withdraw from combat and resort to peace.

This is why Allah said, (If they withdraw not from you, nor offer you peace) meaning, revert to peaceful and complacent behaviors,(nor restrain their hands) refrain from fighting you, (take (hold of) them), capture them, (and kill them wherever you Thaqiftumuhum.), wherever you find them, (In their case, We have provided you with a clear warrant against them), meaning an unequivocal and plain warrant.

« #63 on: Today at 09:10:41 AM »  

If you believe tirmidhi hadith is a fake, then let me present Bukhari hadith, the highest authority in islam
Ibn Abbas said,'I heard the messenger of Allah said,' Whoever changes his religion should be put to death'

Sahih bukhari, hadith 6922

And the statement of Aisha of her age in marriage with the prophet (AS) was recorded as sahih in Bakhari. Right? Now tell me what is the definition of hadith, if not only what comes from Muhammad  or said in his presence, which he did not object to. Now reconcile that statement of Aisha to meet definition of ahadith and let me see how that will fly? Abbass (ra) was used as illustration of the ahadith of apostasy, during the end of the battle of Badr, where many were capture and ransome were sort! Remember that Abu Bakr position was taken over Umars? And remember that Umar was reading Torah in a later date and Abu Bakr had to correct him?

I put these human faces on these Sahaba of the prophet, so that they even make mistake, and will it be impossible for Bukhari to make mistake? When we have a disagreement between Quran and ahadith interpretation, guess which one that must be accepted? It is the Quran, so tell me where in Quran, as the prophet gives explanation of all possible verses he can explain, except the complete explanation of Riba, only left at 72 level, the least as if a man was sleeping with him mother, and the alphabet verses which are known to Allah alone.

@Abuzola: Surah Nisaa explains the condition of soul for soul. You will see that blanketted forgiveness is expressed as follows: (92. It is not for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake; and whosoever kills a believer by mistake, he must set free a believing slave and submit compensation (blood money) to the deceased's family unless they remit it. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (is prescribed); and if he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, then compensation (blood money) must be paid to his family, and a believing slave must be freed. And whoso finds this beyond his means, he must fast for two consecutive months in order to seek repentance from Allah. And Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.) (93. And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him.)