₦airaland Forum

@nezan: « #26 on: Today at 05:25:00 PM »

I dont think we Christians have a problem with miracles, for even the devil can perform miracles.

you have now declared that Jesus and devil are in the same class! shame on you as you call one your god, yet in the crowd of shaitan. read what you wrote, that am responding to.

@godson2009: « #25 on: Today at 05:16:48 PM »

I hope you remember that When Moses' rod turned to snake, Pharaohs magicians also turned theirs to snake too. Haven't you heard of how Magicians who claim they are "pastors" are reaping-off Nigerians because they did "Miracles"? Does it make them children of God because they "performed miracles"?

i hope you remember that pharaoh did not say that he had a mandate from God, while Moses declared that he Moses was a messenger of Allah to his people and a warner to Pharaoh and his people, too. i hope you realise that the miracles of Moses defeated the magic of pharaoh's court magicians.

fortunatey, i am not a christian which would have made me understand or know your magician pastors. and i dont live in nigeria, and my sporadic visits, i ignore the christians as if they do not exist, since allowing them to talk to me is like inviting shaitan to dine, and neither disbelif nor shaitan do i need. so your chritian miracle is actually magic, according to you, above. i agree with you. now, i did not know that the yoruba man hotelier is now God, since you are one of the children of God, and what makes the wife of the hotelier, then? you see that you christian peoplejust throw labels all over the places, without thinking about how loosy goosie it is to see how silly it is?

now, whatever personality that Moses was to God, is the same that Jesus was, same exact thing is what Muhammad was, since Jesus said that out of his own ability, he could do nothing, except that God Almighty Whom he cried, wept, supplicated, prayed, prostrated to, permitted him of any and all miracles; to support and as a sign of his prophethood. Now swallow that!

@Playboy08: « #50 on: Today at 12:15:23 PM »

hi, members, i think the issue of religion should be left with those who imported them into this country. reason most time,i'm a bit confused; imagine, the bible stated that ''who so ever did not believe that jesus christ is the saviour, has been condemed' and the quran made us to understand that ALLAH will not accept any religion than islam. now, which do we believe? or are we serving a different GOD?

You will agree with me that Jesus did not say that he is the "savior" of mankind, and definitely that he did not write the Bible? With these two, we then have to look at what Jesus may have said in the so called Bible. Is it in essence different and insistent with what Moses or previous prophets said, did, etc as relating to God, the Creator? Did Jesus say at anytime that he is the Creator?

What did Muhammad say? Is he the Author of the Quran? Did he say that Quran is his speech or rather the Speech of his Creator?

Now you will find your answer in the above, if you open your inner eye, instead of discarding religion/way of worshipping God altogether making you therefore an atheist, or a confirmed disbeliever!

@Jairzinho: « #45 on: January 04, 2008, 09:58 AM »

Let me get you staright
allah revealed stuff to different prophets before ,during and after Jesus,but they all kind of distorted it,then came along th holy prophet Mohammed(SAW) and he corrected all the previous mistakes?
Is this what you're saying sir?

First, I dont know who your allah is. But I worship Allah, the Almight God Lord of all creations! My statement is that at some point, after the custodians (the prophets) who are the ones that Allah revealed the devine messages in revelations to for mankind left their communities, by death or lifting up (the lifting up relates to Jesus, while death relate to Moses, David (AS)), the people in their community after sometimes and generations used to add their own issues, thinking that they are refining, or expalining, but neither left pure nor without personal desire as they understand it. Let me give you example, while Jesus said he was a subject of his Lord God Who is One Indivisible Lord, look at Mark 12 Verse 29 and others, Paul and others somehow drag Jesus with a label of godship or god sonship. These opinions are completely different from what Jesus said about himself, similar to what previous prophets said about themselves, and the same thing that Muhammad said of himself!

« #46 on: January 08, 2008, 10:11 AM »
Still waiting

Thanks for waiting for that long.

And the entries ended at: « #198 on: September 12, 2009, 12:55 PM »

Please read, Godson2009! Miracles did not end with Jesus, since he was not the last of God's elect.

Those who lived and believed and those who have the belief even now that Musa (AS) is the last elect of God, will say miracle ended with him, thereby doing exactly what you are doing now; clsong the mind eye not to see what people who are true believers see.

« #175 on: August 30, 2009, 08:52 PM »

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Are there miracles through the hands of Muhammad (AS) performed by Allah (AS) and outside the Quran? Many, but am going to talk about the eye of Qatada which babs787 entered as his primary argument on the 11th of April, 2007. Pligrim.1 is a very smart girl and so is Batu and Dr. Osisi, formerly Babyosisi. When Babs787 entered as pupil, and at the same time used the words hanging and cut about the eye, smart thing to do was to rsearch if it is the "pupil" (a vacuum/space) in front of the lens that was meant. Afterall, it was originally related by arabs in arabic language and english writing of it is an attempt which came later to translate it to us the non-arabic speakers. Could it be that the translator have made mistakes from the arabic text to english?

My proof: In the Quran, there is a particular phrase in about more than 5 places. It is Kun fa ya Kun. In english it is translated to mean Be and it is. If you know anything about arabic language, there is no "and" in that phrase at all, because "wa" is "and" and it is missing from it. But "fa" is not and, but "so"! The correct phrase then is "Be, so it Be", not "Be and it is"!

I now present to you the ahadith that babs787 presented and it is not the pupil of the eye at all, but it is the eye "Ball" the total eye that was "hanging and they were thinking of cutting it", and the prophet (AS) by Allah healed it!


Please read it in the next pieces, posts! Thanks.

For those who want to read other miracles, just a smigget of what Allah did through Muhammad (AS) should go to the below entry and read almost 7 to 20 entries that I made after in, methodically outlining the mercy of Muhammad. The thread is in the main religious thread, authored by Pligrim.1.

Aburo, I hope you are okay and your studies are doing on well?


Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam
« #173 on: August 30, 2009, 06:56 PM »

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the people have even taking Pligrim 1, as an object of worship. She says things that her heart was not not able to accept when she said she was a muslim, how can she find it okay now that she takes 3 gods to make 1 God?

The engineering student girl should have known that having three whole car, there is no way you can make one whole car from them, while they still remain 3 individual car?

The genius should also attempt to make from one car, while remaing whole without being destroyed, three whole cars from it, each being complete and not deficient.

If she cant then you should know that there is no God except One, and three individual God(s) is/are never possible! If there is another God with God, they are gods or at least one of them is God and the other is god, like idolatry symbols of the yoruba traditional gods! Same thing.

i am sure where you think you will fault Muhammad (AS), you extending it to Isa bin Maryam (AS), too. Neither one of them can do what is new, except at best duplicate, in a correction, by the Mercy allowance of God, what we deem deficient, or a phenominal proofing their supernaturalness. Muhammad's "miracles" extended to Madina era. The stump of tree that wept was in Masjid in Madina. So was the wolf who told the Jewish shephard about Muhammad as it seized a lamb from his flock. The Camel which complained about his owner was a Madina incedent. The payment for the freedom of Salman Al Farsi included the planting of date seeds where all must grow, as the condition of the payment. That could not be special except that some of the seeds were intentionally burnt to charcoal, by the Jewish master, a means to not want to release the slave he owned and primarily to proof if Muhammad (AS) was a prophet!

In the planting, the prophet personally planted the burnt seeds, saying as he buried each mentioning Allah's Name as he praised Him. Each seed inspite of it being burnt germinated. The madinan date is called Ajwa; wrinkled as if it is raisined.

What about again the curing of eye problems which he did in three ocassions, and Jesus did it just one time?

@Nezan: « #36 on: October 07, 2009, 05:16 PM »

Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)
'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a leaves and kept
under my bed.

Am gonna preempt and suggest that the "orientalists" are saying the narrator of this ahadith is Aisha (RA). But the bolded is something that could not be possible in real life! Considering that a "suckling" is part of sexual activity, a preintercourse/ copulation, can any grown woman breast feed a grown woman who she does not want to sleep with? And is this a public event, or private room affairs and I will tell you that before its all over, some sex will take place. Nezan, I believe you said you are a father of children. You should ask about how a woman feels when her own child suckles her breast and I think you never have done that yourself. Its a good thing, man and your wife will love you for it.

And as to a goat entering and eating verses of the Quran, it will be impossible for many reasons; first goat never have played any role in any ahadith, and their presence seems to be in the fields and where they are housed, not in homes of people. Secondly, the way the Quranic verses were sefeguarded/kept, and the sister of Umar Khattab and her husbands care during the conversion event of Umar is a clear example that if Sahabah were not careless, then definitely, the household of the prophet (AS) could not have been any less. Thirdly, when the prophet (AS) died, the whole muslim community was even more painstaking, hence goat could not have wondered into the sleeping place of the prophet, where his blessed body was lying to then eat the "only; impossible because there would have been copies with the sahabah, Scribes" written down "verse, instead of verses! Fourthly, the community must have memorized it and so its been written down was just an assurance, but not the only source of knowledge of it. Further, many must have copied it down, since they have to "memorize" it. I say in addition to memorization, they understand the knowledge behind it and the reason they give us the correct knowledge.

By the way, just like the number of Rakah of each Salah, it was Muhammad (AS) who explains, the same way he explains the verse of illegal sex to include Stoning in the case of those who are married.

When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away them.

Nonsense Nezan. They were so preoccupied that they noticed a goat eating the word of God, when Muhammad was the physical representation of that word? You think they were careless with Muhammad, hence careless with the Quran? You must be joking, man. Snap out of it!

Ibn Abbas testified to fifty verses being added to the Quran of Uthman

Perish are the hands of those whodo evil and perish her the speech of liars. Is it possible that a man keeps quite about any evil being brought on the Quran, and he is Sunni, while even the Shia who hates Uthman does not even disagree with Uthman on Quran?

@nezan: « #41 on: October 08, 2009, 03:40 PM »

You see your delusion? islamic scholars are disagreeing on the number of verses in the koran but you people chose not to look at it because you were indoctrinated with arabic koran since childhood with the threat of disowning you if you recant.

In all my years, as a youth, considering that my mother was a christian, then, no one would have disowned me if I had left Islam. Infact, my mother wouldnt have been happier! Alhamdulillah, the same woman in her 80s is now a muslim. And as to the disagreement of the scholars, everything in Islam is under scrutiny, by muslims, the reasons the four schools came about. But each of them gave a standing disclaimer: If what I say is in disagreement with what you find Muhammad (AS) saying, discard mine and take what you found from the Prophet, because that would be my take, if only I knew it before or during or after I have said what I said.

Unlike Christianity where Paul's statement over rides that of Non-Christian Jesus Christ! What a muslim scholar says without any ulterior motive but for the truth and benefit of knowledge is rewarded, for effort, even if he is wrong. When she is right she gets double reward for effort and correctness. The correctness is found and rooted in Quran. In Surah Kahf, as to the number of people in the Cave, Allah says He knows for sure and some people with knowledge know, too. Knowledge from Him on mankind is a gift and blessing. Hence, from the many scholars of Islam, as they argue and give their opinions, the truth is there, of the exact number of VERSES in the Quran. Some say Bismillahir rRahmanir rRahim is not a verse. I see it on the pages of the Quran and I know that every recitation of Quran must begin with it, if one is a normal reciter, so I say it is part of the Quran, a verse!

You people really have no choice in matters of religion so you see only what you want to see, aint you?

We have choice, the proof is the many schools. From them you can pick and choose. Its just like a man marrying one woman, or actually starting from 2, or 3 or 4 and then based on his capability in all cumulative purposes, he settles for the first; 1 wife! It is the Christians who have no choice and when they opt for any then they became a renegade, the reason Protestant came to existence!

Christians dont see what they dont see, aint you, Nezan?!

Dexmond what do you make of Mark 12 Verse 29, stated by Jesus? Is the meaning different that the obvious, making Jesus and listeners as subjects of The One Singular Indivisible Lord God?

at best the christians will go to "heaven", and no "PARADISE" for them. it is already forbidden for them and they forbid it for themselves, instead choose heaven.

osisi will "proof" that muslims will go to hell before going to paradise. what she cant proof is that muslims as a nation will be punished in there, where as i will proof to her that chrsitians will be punish, as a nation in hell, and muslims as a nation will watch from Jannah!

you wanna be punish woman? continue in your chrsitian ways!

Hijr and Hajj have the same foundamental origin; spiritual travel.

luvola will enter heaven, Abuzola will enter Paradise. Thats settled.

@Davidylan: « #22 on: October 30, 2009, 03:04 PM »

There is basically no point. You're not making ANY ATTEMPT to "discuss" at all, merely throwing up a ton of verses. Have we finished addressing your mutilation of John 1? Why jump to 1 Tim 2:5?

1 Tim 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

What really is the problem here? Brother Paul is writing here to Timothy as regards the purpose of Christ's presence on earth (in the flesh) . . . which was to serve as the mediator between sinful man and a Holy God. It didnt strip Christ of His divinity. I quoted Romans earlier where the very same Paul addresses Christ AS GOD! Could Paul be speaking from both sides of the mouth or was he confused?

Arent you shy to be arguing for Paul, who was neither a disciple nor an eyewitness, yet his statement is being taking as the "truth" on everything Jesus, when we see that what he says is critically opposite to what Jesus said about himself?

As regards John 14:28 . . . it is beyond belief that you skipped the earlier part of the very same John 14 where Phillip asks the very same question - show us the father and it sufficeth us. Read Christ's response.

Jesus knows that God will remain unseen, and he laughed or quitely ridiculed his ignorant companions, whom he said that their mind and faith is not mature enough to handle "strong religious process", which the "another Comforter" must come to educate the "generation" that will be able to handle it and pass it on. Never in your spiritual life confuse Jesus with God, because that will be wrong, the reason that I say you are a disbeliever!

@Marlbron: « #20 on: October 29, 2009, 08:50 PM »

Deepsight,

It looks to me that for some reason you are not fully convinced about the deity of Christ?

David got it right with his last post, but perhaps I can make it clearer if you let me. A human being is made up of flesh, blood and spirit. God is made up of Holy spirit, Word (Christ) and the Father. The three components are one and agree.

When Human flesh dies, does the blood live on? If the answer is no, then what happened when you said "word" (Christ) died on the cross, to father or ghost/spirit?

It is like saying 1+1+1=1, in real life this is possible if we think in terms of base 3, not our conventional 10.

What kind of math is this? A new math; please expalin how this is possible since 1 is within the same numerical calculation and figures as 1 - 10!

The bible affirms that Christ (John1:1) was not created, his being called a son is in terms of manifestation on earth. That is why him and his father are one. They have duality of existence - exist as spirit and can also exist physically. Clearly the ways of God are different from the ways of men. On earth God takes the form of a human being having in blood, flesh and spirit. The difference between God and a human being is that His spirit is not given to him by measure and that makes him superior. The Godhead can separately manifest on earth. Matter of fact the parable of the wicked husbandmen comfirm the fact that the Son's manifestation will be followed by the manifestation of the Father and the Holy spirit and all the children of God.

This is unreal, since even the bold Moses and his flocks of Israelites said that the Creaytor can not be seen, and whosoever sees Him will surely dies! Is it then possible that He cheapens Himself as Jesus and allowed a slew of people for at least 33 years to see Him as a helpless son of a virgin, and go through human development, including the fear tat his mother and step father had to escape to Egypt to keep him safe and later died such a gruesome death based on what the Bible says? Is this God to you? How evil are those who cheapen the Power of the Creator!

Jesus was a man born of the spirit of God, not carnal desires of man. He came to perform a distinct assignment and after that assignment, he took on his divine form. Notice that after his ressurrection he could appear and disappear at will, and he was not recognized by the disciples or Mary except for his voice or when he "opened" their eyes.

If non carnal knowledge is the only requirement, then Adam, Lady Eve must be such amazing beings! Funny that Jesus had not appeared and disappeared in the past 2,000 years he was lifted by his Lord, his Creator!

The Almighty Father confirmed the deity of the son, please read Hebrew 1: 8.

And the speaker here is no less a johnnie comes lately "Paul and co!" How is God the Father of a creation, a developed egg from Mary? Is He the One who mount the woman by coming upon her and overshadowing her? I say thats sex, or try it with your wife, and see when she gets pregnant, deny sleeping with her, and ask if this was a miracle because all you did was come upon and over shadow her? She will remind you of sex and sex you had with her at coming upon and overshadowing time and place.

@Sharp man: « #15 on: October 29, 2009, 02:02 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on October 29, 2009, 01:48 PM
is born is not a future or past event, but a present event, David! For sure Isiah and Jesus were of no same generation, so inferencing that it was Jesus that Isiagh was talking about is ridiculous! Read the "is born" as it means that time, presently! And Jesus did not have any governance, and if you call him son, you also call him father? If you do, then know that what you said happened to him on earth also happened to father. No? Prince of peace who brought about "war and not peace?"

I wonder, too. But was he talking about Jesus, since the phrase "a child is born" killeth the effort to drape it on Jesus, a far away "after" generation.

The above proves that not eerything you find in the Gospel was from Jesus! Verses 6 thru 8 at least speak about "John", then we see other verses advancing the idea that the Maker of the World was in the world. You see the gimmick of peotry, since we dont know who the poet was?

If Jesus said he was not God by verse 29 of Mark 12, and many others, including his many prayers to the Lord, God, etc, can we say that the postulation put forward is correct as indicated above? Afterall, it is reported that no one can see Him and live. It is reported no one has ever seen Him!




The above analysis gets my vote for the dumbest comment i have read on nairaland today.

Why dont you explain how you arrive at your conclusion? Is it by refusal to lay down and accept " is born" as a future statement rather than what it really means, present in the time of Isiah? What exactly? People who use their biarn (brain" can read between the line. No?!

Yes I meant to write, davidylan instead of Ure, half asleep. Its the fall back on time.

It simply means Viaro does not know. The only sensible post I have seen from him. You see the benefit of not being so overtly emotional? You may actually be correct if you apply rationality.

@Davidylan: « #45 on: July 30, 2008, 06:11 PM »

Responding to that old alhaji olabowale is a waste of time.
Littleb . . . your fellow muslima just shot your "genealogy" in the foot again.

Muslima is a woman, and obviously Olabowale is not. Neither is Littleb.

@Davidylan:
Here is what I got concerning the clan of Yunus from the Children of Israel:

My statement says, "what I got". What do you get of the geneology of Jesus, so that I can nail you to the "CROSS" with the other geneology that you will reject?

The Story of the Prophet Yunus (pbuh)
Yunus (pbuh) was the son of Amittai, from the clan of Judah.

Both geneologies lead to Jacob, Israel. No?

But Littleb's false "genealogy" records something VERY different -

Will davidylan have the strenth to approach the two geneologies of Jesus in the same manner?

1. It records Jonah as being the son of Benjamin and NOT Judah.

Am not perfect, so I take the blame, who takes the blame on your 2 geneologies of Jesus, hoping you will be man enough to fess up?

Who of the two of you is lying?

Let me say that i am the one lying. But which of the two geneology parallels is correct in the Bible on Jesus? Now thats a doossie. Seriously! No, then expalin while you are bold enough to choose one of the two.

« #47 on: July 30, 2008, 08:22 PM »
As usual you attempt to ignore the blatant errors in mohammad's alleged genealogy to start your usual cock and bull story about christianity.

I wonder what you will say about the two geneologies of Jesus; one going to King David of long gone era, and a killer and adulter by your Biblical standard, a sinner and the other by a stepfather Joseph the carpenter? Do people take up their stepfather's geneology, and what rational is behind that? Relationship is by blood alone, as we know it in hman terms!

Can you discuss islam without constant, unhealthy recourse to christianity?

Whats unhealthy about telling the truth of the impossibility of divisible True God the Creator, or the fact that human is not God?

Does islam have an identity outside the God of the bible?

Ure, Allah; The Creator, Islam the Way of Allah for Humans, and Muhammad (AS), the last of all Messengers and or Prophets (AS). lol.

@Focused123: « #54 on: Yesterday at 04:02:43 PM »

@Olabowale :

You are the one who thinks with your butts. Infact there is no brain in your head. The God of Abraham, is not allah (which is the rock god of Kabbah). The faith of Abraham is not Muhammedan Islam. Abraham did not have a religion but a relationship/ friendship with God. Which is what Christianity is all about. Christianity is a relationship with God. We refer to God as our father and we are his children.

I thought your argument before was the idol allah was an idol in kaaba, and since all idols are destroyed, you now say it is the "black stone?" Very well. If Christianity is exactly what Abraham way was, would you then not agree that Abraham was a Christian? What was his relationship with Judaism? How about Isaac and or jacob to Judaism and or Christianity? Heck, is Judaism the same as Christianity? Since they are completely different, where do they converge? I guess no place and no ideology. Neither is a relation practised by Abraham and we definitely know that Abraham prostrated his face to a God, a Creator! Who does prostration?

The Biblical Abraham practiced no rites, no rituals, no fetishes, no Qibla, no prostrations, no pilgrimage, no circumambulation of any 'holy' place but only obedience to the guidance of the Almighty. Rites, rituals, Qibla, prostrations, pilgrimage, circumambulation of the kabbah is part and parcel of Muhammedan Islam. Most important of ALL, he did not even know a god with the name of Allah.

I wonder why Abraham was going to kill his son, if it was not ritual, through his dream? Did Jeus prostrate his face in prayers; try garden of geshemane for size! And all the tabernacles therefore must be fetishes, and rituals, or what are they? I shudder at this guy. May the Creator help 9ja if he holds any important position in that country because he reminds me of Nezan! I know that the Christians face the back of the Church, sometimes, and other times face the front or the sides, of the Church when they conduct their religious services! They do not have any rite or order to religious service! Lol. You will have to defend what you put forward as i am responding to you accordingly.

After all, the God of the Hebrews and of Israel has no name.[/quote[So Yahweh, jeovah, Eloi as said by cross hung Jesus and Elohim were all made up names! You now have the noose around your argument neck!


[quote]In fact, the Torah always speaks of
" The God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac and
the God of Jacob"

Say these in Hebrew, or Yiddish, or German, or Russian. Do we have this Biblical Entity only for the three above, or was he a Lord over Adam, long time before any of the three? What did Adam and Eve call Him? God of Abraham, too and not his own God?

but NEVER once mentioning a name - especially not Allah - and not once saying " the God of Ishmael".

So yahweh, or jehovah and Eloi, or Elohim was not mentioned, too. Good for you. And remember English was not the language of these people, so how did they denote or vocalise there Creator? How will a German say this, or a French man, or a Russian or a Spanish or my dear Tribal people, the Yorubas about their Creator? You see how much I am going to take you to task, here?

All the acts attributed to Abraham in the Quran are false - not mentioned in the Bible - but represent Muhammad's own pagan traditions which he transferred to Abraham - as part and parcel of Muhammad's Narcissism: Projective Identification - so that it would make him look holy.

Focuse123, lets wager if I an show you videos of Christians and also Jews Standing, bowing and prostrating their faces, while they are worshipping "The Creator", then you leave Christianity. Agreed? I wanna see how strong you are and assured in your "faith" Faith is defined as a belief, a religion is one of those people express their faith. Certainly spiritual faith is by religion, only. What do you have, Focused123?

In fact, the Torah has no concept or even a word denoting religion. We refer to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So how did Judaism become a religion? lol! This guy is easy Cecil!

Allah is NOT the God of Israel, but the PERSONAL NAME of the 'divine spirit' that according to the beliefs of the pagan Arabs,RESIDED in the
Black Stone meteorite - embedded in the wall of the Ka'ba - that was VENERATED by the pagan Arabians long before Muhammad and his Quran.

If your statement is correct relative to it being just the blackstone, we see that by your other arguments you are confusing yourself. You are arguing against yourself! Stop it man, and get get hold of yourself!

ALLAH is NOT The GOD of ISRAEL. ALLAH is NOT GOD.

Allah's Autjority extends far over everything and Israel is just a dot under the Umbrella that covers everything and Allah is Lording over all of those and beyond!

The Hanifs were an Arab sect that was very much influenced by the indigenous Jewish and Christian Arabs who have been in the Arabian Peninsula for centuries before Muhammad. The People of Arabia practise the Jewish faith, Christian faith and Paganism. When Muhammed came into the scene, through deceit, and war. He deceived others that he was the prophet and came up with Muhammedan Islam which is practised today

While there is no christian or Jew named Hanif or Hanifah, these names are common in my Yoruba Islam and my American Islam! Further, the majority of makkans were idolatry, the very thing that Islam came to destroy, no wonder Islam by unfocused focused123 is idolatry too? And if there is something called Muhammadan Islam, we see that there must be a prior somebody's Islam, by your own argument. No? By the way who is that person? While I think with my butt, we can see how you will have to answer these major questions.

The Muhammedan ISLAM that you practise is complete Idolatry(allah) and witchcraft (observing the moon). Allah is not GOD but god of kabbah which has been existing before Muhammed was born.

Idolatry is the act of worshipping idol. Idol, is a man made, a physical representation, for sure. While it was ordinary tribe of people that named followers of Jesus, Christians, the opposite was the case with Islam or Muslim, since Ibrahim whom you are forcing yourself to fit into Hebrew, Israel, Judaism (a religion) or Christianity (a way not a religion, lol). Witchcraft, if Islam is determined to be it because of its moon association, what about its sun association? Now the Jews do things by sun, as in sunset/sundown, so what is it as relating to witchcraft? The case of christianity if we look at it from non snowy climate, the nordic just to exite myself as I make fun of you, what shal we say it is, and then when we deal with the winter people of the white people's world, completely different from the brwon people, without the snow, what we see is that they deal with gregorian calender. Shall we then say that their ways are part calender, snow, warn weather or what? A big time confusion without any celestrial connection! No?

[/quote]

@todak: « #71 on: March 17, 2009, 01:00 AM »

hummmmmmmmmmmmm, the people of the book are infidels, please what is the meaning of infidel?

open the "holy Bible" (lol) and in the Book of Timothy, you shall find it, Infidel that is. Then open up the Quran in Arabiya la alakum taa ki luun. By Allah I guarantee that you will not see it in there. (That is in Arabic; its no word existing, though I may call you a "kilab, but no infidel "an english word" lol!

it is a degrading word.

I agree. Shame on the book that you shall find it in! That book belongs to the dog; Kilab.

And Islam permit one to marry an infidel, it must be a mistake abi, how can an unrighteous marry unrighteous, dey no bi desame na, abi na another way of adding to the family of the truth defenders. I pity that woman because if jihad start pere hm, she go know say khaki no be lether. na him wife him go first comot for road to aljanah. Even if na asasi make the lady go think am wel wel before she just inside everlasting ocean. my advise be say let the people of the book marry themselves and the truth defenders marry themselves for a better cordial and marital relationship. remember two different things can not give way to one uniform thing. be wise o make them no use ya head do steping stone to go aljanah.

Since Quran does not call anybody infidel, then I guess you are wrong, and the book you will find it in 'timothy' of the Bible will be what?

@ferdiii: « #98 on: October 29, 2009, 03:18 PM »

@ Abu, is it only on buses and planes? What about those allah wakuba that rings in the early mornings in my neighborhood. I thank God I have relocated. But the manner city is planned or allowed to develop in Nigeria is crazy. Some people will just build a house and all of a sudden it is a church, and the ear-damaging bull horns and stuff, wouldn't let you be. And they are talking about what u already know oh-H & H. Tell one of them to sell off all he has to better others, whosai. If heaven is what they say, u sure say person go tell u? Muslims own I no understand, they say they hate westernization and they travel to Mecca by air and use bull horns to scatter pesin peace all the time.

Where did you learnt this, when Islam is the grandfather of westernization?

@PastorAIO« #100 on: October 29, 2009, 04:16 PM »

. . . The extents that they go through to preach and win converts and when they've won the convert they proceed to make the poor soul twice the devil that they themselves are.

lol. they empty the purse of Dinero and and paved the way of Jahanam with beautifu things, while Thorning the way of Jannah.

and Jehovah or Yahweh or Trinity or ( ) does his own killing, right? So when Christians kill or rape (david you must have heard of the Richmond CA High School age people raping the 15 years old girl for 2 1/2 hours?), whose account do you register these to? Yahweh or yourselves? Please answer me young blood, homs!

I hope you will still change your mind and join your bretheren in the Church organized Haloween? If you dont and you think it is piety, then imagine how many of the Christian masses, taking this sampling by your church activity will go to lake of fire, and you are not even sure you will not guarantee 100% of your going to heaven, which is different from Paradise. lol.

Davidylan is not even sure of what will happen to him, as a christian considering that he disagrees with majority of christians.

Focused123 does not know that before Ibrahim, there was the Hebrew people and their language, and belief in One God, which was the belief system of Noah!

I think this dude Focused123 thinks with his butt! He only has one when people have 2 cheeks, expectially when the christians are whacked on one, the other must, I repeat must be turned ala Jesus commandment!

Muslims are Hanifans, the reason you hear some being named Hanif, for man, and Hanifah for woman. Again, Abuzola is correct to ask if youre seeing any sense in what you post.

you dexmond, have you? have you been to the home of any jew; orthodox, reformed, conservative, or any other? i have lived with jew, weekended with many. do you know anything about them?

But to bring a sword - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, ,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But_to_bring_a_sword - Cached - Similar -

a real lover of family cohesiveness. a peaceful soul, a lamb.

Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace.

prince of peace alright! sure peace it is.

dexmond is trying to tell us that his' by grace' is a thing that makes him better than Moses who according to him was not even allowed to enter cannan. and dexmond thinks that 'by grace' he will saunteer into heaven, not paradise of course, a paradise he dexmond does not want to enter, only heaven he wishes.

@dexmond; please dont write that tiny for me to read. i am an old man but dont wear glasses, yet.

The Flogging Punishment In Islam for Fornication
Posted by: Admin on: April 10, 2009

In: Islam| My writings| Quran| Religion| Women's IssuesComment!
Allah Almighty says in the Quran:

“The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allaah, if you believe in Allaah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment” [al-Noor 24:2]

“And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses – lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient, ” [An-Noor 24:4]


Hudd punishment – The fixed punishment – is prescribed by Allah for those acts which Allah has made haram and this punishment is by hitting or by killing.
The fixed punishment for fornication (consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other ) is flogging a 100 strikes. As for adultery ( voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband) – the married person would be stoned to death as commanded by Prophet Muhammad (s)
The punishment is applicable when the man has coitus with the woman. Any relationship not inclusive of coitus does not mandate the prescribed fixed punishment.
The punishment is applicable when the act of coitus is witnessed by four male adults who are muslim, sensible, just and free and who testify in the court. Seeing two people together or nude or in some inappropriate position does not mandate the hudd punishment unless the act of coitus is eye witnessed.
The punishment is also applicable if the fornicator or the fornicatress confesses to his or her crime four times.
100 flogs can be inflicted in one day or over a period of days depending on the health of the one being punished.
No judge can increase or decrease the punishment


Punishment has to be delivered publicly in front of a small group of Muslims – minimum three and maximum 1000 Muslims should witness this event.
Flogging should be inflicted with a leather whip which is neither totally new nor very old. Flogging with a stick is not allowed
Flogging should be on the fleshy part of the body only affecting the skin and avoiding the head and the sensitive areas. Flogging has to spread over – and should not be done in one place so as to make the flesh come out.
A man is flogged in a standing position while a woman should be flogged in a sitting position.



Ibn Mas’ood said: It is not prescribed in our religion to make the offender lie down or to tie him up or remove his clothing. The companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) flogged offenders but there is no report that any of them made the offender lie down or tied him up or removed his clothing. (Islam QA)No one should carry out the hadd punishments without the permission of the ruler. If there is no ruler who rules according to sharee’ah then it is not permissible for the ordinary people to carry out the hadd punishments. Whoever does that is sinning, because carrying out the hadd punishments requires examining the matter and requires shar’i knowledge in order to know the conditions of proof. (Islam QA)
Accepting this punishment is conditional to Emaan – If you feel pity for the fornicator or fornicatress - that may lead to not approving the flogging punishment then you don’t believe in Allah and the Akhira ( You leave the fold of Islam)



PUNISHMENT OF FORNICATION AS IMPLEMENT BY RASOOL ALLAH (S) AND HIS COMPANIONS
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 818

Narrated Zaid bin Khalid Al-Jihani:

I heard the Prophet ordering that an unmarried person guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. Umar bin Al-Khattab also exiled such a person, and this tradition is still valid.

FLOGGING THE ONE WHO CONFESSES AND LETTING GO THE ONE WHO DENIES THE SIN
Dawud :: Book 38 : Hadith 4423
Narrated Sahl ibn Sa’d:

A man came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and confessed before him that he had committed fornication with a woman whom he named. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) sent for the woman and asked her about it. But she denied that she had committed fornication. So he inflicted the prescribed punishment of flogging on him, and let her go.

FLOGGING WHEN THE SINNER CONFESSES AND DOES NOT RETRACT IT
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Malik related to me from Nafi that Safiyya bint Abi Ubayd informed him that a man who had had intercourse with a virgin slave-girl and made her pregnant was brought to Abu Bakr as-Siddiq. He confessed to fornication, and he was not muhsan. Abu Bakr gave the order and he was flogged with the hadd punishment. Then he was banished to Fadak, (thirty miles from Madina).

Malik spoke about a person who confessed to fornication and then retracted it and said, “I didn’t do it. I said that for such-and-such a reason,” and he mentioned the reason. Malik said, “That is accepted from him and the hadd is not imposed on him. That is because the hadd is what is for Allah, and it is only applied by one of two means, either by a clear proof which establishes guilt or by a confession which is persisted in so that the hadd is imposed. If someone persists in his confession, the hadd is imposed on him.”


NO FLOGGING PUNISHMENT FOR THE RAPE VICTIM
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.3.15
Malik related to me from Nafi that a slave was in charge of the slaves in the khumus and he forced a slave-girl among those slaves against her will and had intercourse with her. Umar ibn al-Khattab had him flogged and banished him, and he did not flog the slave-girl because the slave had forced her.


NO FLOGGING IF THE SINNER IS TOO WEAK AND COULD DIE WHILE BEING FLOGGED
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4224
Abd al-Rahman reported that ‘Ali, while delivering the address said: O people, impose the prescribed punishment upon your slaves, those who are married and those not married, for a slave-woman belonging to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) had committed adultery, and he committed me to flog her. But she had recently given birth to a child and I was afraid that if I flogged her I might kill her. So I mentioned that to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he said: You have done well.



Sources:

Tafsir Ibn Kathir :Explanation of the prescribed punishment of zina : http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=35488

Islam QA: How to flog? http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/13233/flogging

Who should carry out the hudd punishment for zina? http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/8980/zina

Crime and Punishment in Islam: http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/249/

Explanation of verse 1 and 2 of Surah Noor by Dr.Farhat Hashmi http://farhathashmi.com/dn/Portals/0/audio/explanation/Detailed/taleem-al-quran-05/mp3/Para-18/lesson-05/tqc18-05b.mp3


Tags: Crime, Fornication, Islam, Punishment, Quran, Religion
1 Response to "The Flogging Punishment In Islam for Fornication"

So Sleek29, i guess it is the lies in your religion that make you fear so much and debate so ferrociously?

there is no muhammadan islam. i therefore conclude that you must now start to use your brain. should i say pauline religion (christianity) which is not the religion of Jesus, since he worshipped in Temple, instead of church (i know there was no church then, my evidence of pauline) is for what type of people again?