₦airaland Forum

jara:
Even if Oduduwa came from Oke Ora, he had to come from somewhere. It does not negate the fact that he sojourn all over Africa and beyond.

After all Sango is more popular beyond than within Nigerians.

It does not make a difference if it was the ODUDUWA the first, second or third. As long as we know the same Oduduwa could not have lived for centuries.

Ijaw have him as Adumu.

Out of all these big bang theories, one is true. As far as I am concerned, I know that the God ,who created the man Olofin,whom is controversially known even by Ijaws, as Adumu will laugh at all. Do you know Adimula isnt a name but a title ? Visit the oriki of Ooni Ogunwusi and read it throughly to understand its tentative meaning if you can decipher..

,you will pay me unmeasured bounty for the leeway I have given you.

Macon1212:
Yoruba dun, o tayo gbogbo ede. (Yoruba is a sweet language, it Excel from other languages.)

absoluteSuccess:
Do I need border about what you believe? The ones you anchor your faith on here has just been rubbished without any argument in that direction from you. All you need do now is to go back to your original antics na, afterall you have no idea of your own, just keep on fighting, and I will keep on posting as well. So, nothing changes.



LOLZ

You are the untrained fellow na,

Only a fool will always confirm himself to be a fool. I'm well trained and very versed in what I've been doing, but you don't know what to hang on anymore, than this. But wait o, how about telling your readers what you know about Yoruba history? Are you being so careful?

Whatever happens to your recent coinages, I mean linguistic classification and multiple aboriginality? Can't you proof this your conclusion with facts or inventions or some findings you've come across in your inspirational tales you stumble upon in Yoruba tradition?

Ok, I'm sorry, I forgot. Its just the regular 'context without content', ill-coined grandiose phrases that leads nowhere as usual.



Wait o, I can see you are really into the Japanise lexicon, hmm...I love learning new things bro...but oh, see what you are planning to do with all that collections of yours. What do you do for a living to come to this conclusion? Why not expend yourself in positive use of time and resources? Why use panadol to another's headache ooo

A brilliant mind can do something spectacular with just so little linguistic resources at your disposal, like 'how far distance languages do match and what is in it to appreciate as knowledge'. Different institutions will definitely want to understand such human phenomenon.


But in the hands of a fool like you, as always, it is something to leave to the experts because the little you can never be one. Every of your post is begging for experts....maybe because you are already a failure at becoming one.

Odaaro sir, Baba sikira olodo.

They are never your readers because to comprehend well researched work is a problem. In as much as nothing good can be seen inside omí àdàgun, why bother yourself? Hmmmm, dont bother yourself at someone who can't understand himself ,to even think of understanding others ,so let him continue to study so that his mindset will be driven away from falsified ‘KWA' Conglomorate.

On a last note, you are an Omo-olu-Iwa-bi,so please, ignore élégán and share what Yorub people don't know about Yoruba history so that you become a ‘god' in the sands of time. Don't forget, a mortal Orunmila, Olofin Odua, Ajaokuta,Oranmiyan Obalufon alaymore are acknowledged as ‘gods' today as even written in the Hebrew Book.....You are ‘gods'. I want you to know Purity beget purity,while Evil beget evil.


Peaceful time out to you and your family

Moorish:
You are a bit naive to the nature of things on this planet

Especially the global white supremacy structure

I implore you to seek charity at home first

Once we are united, if there is any love left we can
Help the others

Me naive? Ç'est faux mon ami. I am a bit knowledgeable about the local world and the world's humans behavioural pattern at large. In as much we find people hating themselves within a family of the blacks you champion a course for, how much the external worldwide? My brother, I know a lot. But you must cleanse yourself of hatred and bitterness so that purity covers your whole.

Lord God..... I find you very funny with your hatred for white despite the facts that all Jewish people were killed,mauled and oppressed for thousands of years without consideration for their colour. If you know the reason of the white Jewish history, perhaps you will understand. Obalufon, I don't know the reason for your hatred for Caucasians because IFA preaches Love, patience,perseverance,faith in one's ‘Ori', etc but here you are ,with disdain for many people whose history is incomplete without Africa.

I donnot see the reason to framed that white Jews used Falashas for land occupation. Do you know Falasas population is less than 200,000( over estimation) ? There were no Falasas when th white Jews fought for the pertial reclaimed lsraeli's land during the occupation by the Jews with the support of other Europeans? In fact A YORUBA MAN was known Rabbi Arnold Josiah Ford (23 April 1877 – 16 September 1935) was the first black rabbi in America, and a prominent member of Harlem. He moved into Ethiopia,was the one that MADE Falasas popular.
He was one of the Rabbi that anointed Haile Selassie as the emperor. Haile Selassie(who was born , ‘Ras Tafari Makonnen ',who became an Ethiopia 's regent from 1916 to 1930 and emperor from 1930 to 1974.

Who told you Europe wasn't occupied before BCE?

macof,being a scholar and a critic, how do you counter the cognate of Yoruba word for ‘mother ' (Ìyè), to have same shared word with ancient Hebrew's lexicon? You being a critic of many people who see these things as Olumide Lucas, Bolaji Idowu but without strong evidence as I have in 21st century.



Yoruba: ìyè
Meaning: mother
Hebrew: eym
Meaning: mother

absoluteSuccess:
No sir, its of great use to me: I see the point being made as a clever attempt at a historical hoax.



My bros, that very phrase is 'the almighty deception' and the backbone of the submission of the source you quoted. How did we come by this 'available linguistic evidence' and what in the world is the author referring to? We know what it is when 'the holy grail' was announced moments later.



Now the author is about to turn this holy grail to something spectacular



Does this evidence of linguistic relativity alone equally suggests common origin in the same sentence? That's 'transformation of evidence' or employing an omnipotent-evidence to do all things a much deeper and time-consuming further research can do, so that we can reach a conclusion on common origin in time?



The bolded is the very moment the holy grail became the holy grail, not for just linguistic relativity, but something earth shattering: common historical origin for all. It is a breathtaking moment.




Whose commission is the bolded? I've done my own part, Yoruba came from Nok civilization.

Our Prof has done his bit at canonizing Kwa language as holy grail. It is left to Professor Olu to tell us how our history is canonized by the people called modern scholars (european linguists of 1845) whose 'matching of words with common meaning among native Africans in the west coast' suddenly became the holy grail from where our history spring from.

Prof. Olu, please find the text of the works that became Kwa languages, maybe its linguistic or historical, lets know.

You have dissected the submission of our great professors who submissively agreed that they are uncertain and so therefore look forward in unraveling the Yoruba Race's historical foundation beyond ILEIFE,the Nigeria's birth place of Yorubas, who were called a,‘Bantu' related group. Fortunately Philadé Leo has understudy the relationship between Yoruba and ancient Egypt. Although Yoruba residents is West Africa today which made some western researchers classified Yoruba as a Niger-Congo people.

Kwa was introduced by Gottlob Krause in 1885 for the AKAN( or TANO), GÃ and GBE Languages, which have ‘Kwa' or ‘Kua' word in their names and also meaning, ‘Human being'. Yoruboid as a language was a stand alone because the methods used by these classifier were not the best for it. The Niger-Congo Language family represents one of the largest groups of languages in the world. It consists of 1,436 languages and dialects spread over a relatively small geographic area (Grimes 64).

Classification of African Languages(brief)

One of the earliest known classifications of the African languages was presented in Adelung and Vater’s Mithridates (1812) and it divides all of the African languages into four groups: the Berber languages in the north, the Bushman and Hottentot languages in the south, and all of the remaining languages were grouped under the title "Central Africa" (Bendor-Samuel 3). Adelung continued to break down these groupings and was able to put together some related languages: a Mandingo group, an Amina (Akan) group, and a Congo group which, however, does not relate to other Bantu languages (Bendor-Samuel 3).


One of the most famous classifications is that of Greenberg. He used Westermann’s studies as a type of springboard to his own conclusions. Greenberg, however, made several divergences from previous studies in stating his own conclusion. Among these divergences are:

1) Westermann’s "West Sudanic" and Bantu formed a single genetic family which he named Niger-Congo,

2) Niger-Congo consisted of the following subfamilies recognized by Westermann: West Atlantic, Mande (Mandingo), Gur or Voltaic, Kwa (which included Togo Remnant) and Benue-Congo (Benue-Cross),

3) Bantu constituted a subgroup of of Benue-Congo rather than being a subfamily like the others, and

4) Kordofanian, which he had treated as a separate family previously, was coordinate with Niger-Congo as a whole thus causing him to name the larger family Niger-Kordofanian (Bendor-Samuel 7-. Greenberg’s groupings (1963) are shown below: Greenberg arrived at these groupings using the following method: 1) he compared word lists of basic vocabularies from large numbers of languages and established cognates in some if not all of the languages of a particular grouping.

Greenberg called this mass comparison . 2) he compared particular grammatical morphemes with similar forms and functions from one language to another and established relationships between them. Greenberg felt that is was a mistake to compare general features of languages "...without making a detailed comparison of the actual morphemes by which these systems were realized" (Bendor-Samuel .
There have been questions by many scholars concerning the validity of Greenberg’s groupings.

So, it is refer to as the Kwa languages today are essentially the languages of Greenberg’s Western Kwa subgroup which he characterized as "relatively close-knit." Imagine this statement?

'Greenberg himself recognized, it is now generally agreed that his Kwa is not valid as a genetic unit'. Kwa has never been a precise concept (Bendor-Samuel 217-218). Today Yoruba is classified as Kwa but doesn't have shared word with 70% with the remaining 1435 out of the 1436 languages and dialects except Yoruba people with yoruba dialects that's grouped to be :

1) North-West Yoruba (NWY)
Egba, Ibadan , Egbado/Yewa , Ọyọ,
Western Ogun , Lagos/Eko .

2)North-East Yoruba (NEY)
Yagba, Owe , Ijumu , Oworo, Gbede,
Abunu.

3)Central Yoruba (CY)
Igbomina , Ijesha, Ifẹ , Ekiti, Akurẹ , Ẹfọn .
South-East Yoruba

4) (SEY)south East Yoruba
Ikale , Ilaje, Ondo City , Ọwọ , Idanre,
Akoko, Remo, Ijẹbu.

5) South-West Yoruba (SWY)
Ketu , Awori, Sakété , Ifè (Togo) , Idasha ,
Ipokia/Anago .

Even the neighbouring Igala isn't a Yoruba group despite the 63%-64% percentage of her language's closeness to Yorubas.The tradition and culture are different. Yoruba are the People known with Èlèdáà (one's creator) concept.

Despite, Professor Biobaku who categorically claimed authority on Yoruba history, don't understand his own ethnic history in full fledge because he can't condemned the research carried out by Philadé Leo who used linguistic connection to analyse the relationship between Yoruba and ancient Egypt, that Olumide Lucas saw through the egyptologists. Unfortunately the condemnation by Professor Biobaku on Olumide Lucas' work was borne out of the fact because he, Olumide wasnt a linguist but a theologian . The same way Bolaiji Idown was condemned by few scholars who thought Idowu was too enotionally attached to christianity in comparing its biblical verses with Yoruba IFA Corpus and tradition. This is much unlike the Western Researchers who don't criticise educational background of any researchers except the Person's work,which has aided their work speedily.

Today, Western Hebrew researchers have begun to interpret Pictographs, hieroglyphs which has cognates with Yoruba's.While many scholars in this field in Yoruba land haven't delve into. Funny part of it,is the same western researchers are their citation /references.



Cheers

@absoluteSuccess,I don't see the research work as being late nor will it be late Sir, because it involves a lot of work to achieve this task. Therefore a more advanced knowledge on Pictorgaph, Hieroglyphs by Yorubas as needed manpower is also need be put into consideration because it is not about one man's glory' but achieving the result through collective effort Èlèdáà through whom he has chosen among men.

absoluteSuccess:
The proto-words you have on that appendix table incredibly agrees with old Yoruba words:

mr: mr, miri in Yoruba is to shake head, ri on its own is to see something, and we says mor[eemo], which combines m, (e-mi, this me) with 'ri', see. Mo ri emo, 'I saw marvel'.

Bo'a or bo is what Yoruba says when someone is coming, [mo n bo, I'm coming]. A proverb utilizing bo'a is in old Yoruba, 'eran nlenii bowa o y'ode'. It means 'I'm being pursued by an animal bespeak the hunter'.

Sy: Seyi is to do a particular thing, as in this proverb 'seyi too se oremi ojo nlo' do what you have to do, my friend, time is going.

Bro,this is just a tip of the iceberg. The exact word for the word ,‘see' is the same as with Ancient Hebrew. In fact Ancient Arabic is slightly different but closely related.

For those that thought I am forcefully conjuring Ancient Hebrew words that has same cognate with Yoruba should explain the factor that makes the following Yoruba words to have same cognate with Ancient Hebrew

Hebrew: ry
Meaning: see

Yoruba:ri
Meaning: see





Cheers

Paretomaster1:
Google is your friend, I can conveniently school u in both Hausa, and Yoruba....

Rakumi is an Hausa word.....

Not at all because I dont need you to teach me what you cant defend its history. Maybe Camel came down from heaven in your own school of thought?. This is a forum that you need be ready for any question, so Kindly defend your opinion on what said and not giving option. And I dont need to study Hausa language because it is a waste of time sudying a language without accruable economical benefit to it but I know Yoruba dún káà. Paraventure I need to verify etymological word of Hausa's, I know how to go about it .

Yoruba :Rakumi
English :Camel




Cheers

Paretomaster1:
So your father also told you hedgeorg is OYA?

Am sure u ve heard Yoruba use the word "Samari" did u know what it means, did u know its an Hausa word?

Well, I dont know,so kindly teach all to learn . I am sure you dont know much about ancient Yoruba history and their worldview. As far back as 11th-12th century, Camel had been known to Yoruba people. Perhaps, you should dig the past on Yoruba so as to differentiate the Ìgbálodè(modern-coined and adopted) words and from the ancient past.

Paretomaster1:
Oga, take correction... It is an Hausa word...... Is Rakumi domicile to Yorubaland?

Since you know the history of camel existence in Hausaland, west Africa and Africa as a whole, Kindly share it, Sir.

Paretomaster1:
Rakumi is an Hausa word for camel........probably one of èdè ayalo....

Well, it is a Yoruba word for Camel. I learned the meaning through my father which is quite a very long time . I am not sure if it is èdè àyálo because the camel in different culture was used for war expedition, travelling as a result of its strength and domestication of it for consumption. All these changed over time although Yoruba had contact with Hausas and borrowed few words that I know of which were basically as a result of non-existence of such in Yoruba land but I may agree to it being shared but not of Hausa's origin because anciently, Yoruba was a very advanced Race and more like a wealthy confederate Nation.

Awesome news. Glory be to God Almighty

RedboneSmith:
Ah, it's no use. Have a nice day, all.

Have a good working time out there.

absoluteSuccess:
Money

kwa in Egun

Owo in Yoruba

Ego in Igbo

These folks intend to write off the traditional history because they cannot grasp it, or have anything like it themselves, replacing it with scientific fantasies that have no connection to the information in the history that has been coming down from thousands of lineages. You can't appreciate what you don't have.

Yoruba tradition is a valid knowledge of its own kind, with equal value of intelligence worth of empirical study. We are not stones without intellectual contributions to our history, it is slaves that are in need of professors to find their places and origin in history. But sons look to the intellectual culture of their fathers.

Thanks for this, @the bolded, I was thinking that some scholars from Europe came to tell us more about our languages as they used to do for their servants, helping them to better knowledge of their history in English, hence the name kwa linguistic group.

Well, thank you too Sir. It is disheartening that the researchers being quoted by some of our brothers dont always have accurate information as regard who they referenced but based on asuumptions. Mo gbé'dí .Just imaging some people claiming Yoruba habited Nigeria more than 6000 years ago , yet the Iwo Eleru fossil( Human skull) found is almost 13000+ with no link to Yoruba ancestors nor any artifact to support 6000 years of a people with population as Yorubas' in Nigeria. Despite the fact that Ileife was even said to have had traces of animal husbandary around 305 BCE yet no human fossil to match 6000 years. And all the strength in artifacts is less than 2000 years old. In fact, Igbo ukwu's artifact is older than Yoruba's so also Nok . Were the Yoruba so unseen that they were spirits? I only hope this people will wake up from fantasies.

Wollof calls,‘ king' : Fari – Faroe– Egyptian king
Setwana, a group associated with Gbe- Ewe calls ,‘ Father' as Ra– A name associated with an Egyptian pharaoh who was turned to deity as sungod. The word 'Kwa' was introduced by Gottlob Krause in 1885 for the Akan (or perhaps Tano ), Gã, and Gbe languages, which have kwa or kua as their word for 'human being'. Just imaging the meaning?

Gbe- Ga language : Kwa
Meaning: Human being
Yoruba – Ori
Meaning: head

Infact, the concept of Ori in Yoruba tradition has no equal base with any group or affinity even with Igala in west Africa's culture. Infact the Nok culture, Ibo culture ,edo culture Borgu, Idoma , Jukun etc don't understand the concept of Ori bíbó in Yoruba land,which is enshrined in IFA concept. How can these people not know that IFA is the record keeper of Yoruba language with no link to non Yoruba's? Gradually, I hope these people will realise that the language divergence was not as a result of independent group development with all other groups in Niger Congo basin or west Africa but as result of cultural and language differences.

Hebrew: bo/bw
Meaning : return,come back

Yoruba( ancient): bo,bo'a ,bo wa
Meaning: to come,return

Hebrew: Sh
Meaning: to do,work

Yoruba: Shè/ sè
Meaning: to do,work


These don't exist in West Africa...Except in Yoruba language

RedboneSmith:
Where did Professor Akinjogbin argue against the dating for the divergence of the branches of the Kwa language family?

The dating that Akintoye gave in his book is not his own conjecture, as you are trying to insinuate. It was first postulated in the 60s that the languages in the Kwa group began to split up between 8,000 and 6,000 years ago (i.e., roughly between 6,000 BC and 4,000 BC). No linguist (including eminent Yoruba linguists like Akintugbe and Eluyemi) has challenged the dating.

To understand how linguists arrived at this dates, you have to understand how glottochronology works. It is not a system of assigning random dates. All things being equal, languages change at a rate. Using this rate as a constant, it is possible to arrive at a rough estimate of when varying related languages were one proto-language.

Also, what do you mean by "there's no way this linguistic connection can be without any traces of it"? Are you saying there are no traces of linguistic connection between Yoruba and her sister-languages: Edo, Idoma, Igbo? Because there are.

What do you want me to note in Einar's work? Mention it.

Since the information you gave is based on Akintoye also reference someone else's opinion which is not well confirmed , only showed such information is prone to criticism because Yoruba didnt occupy Nigeria 6000 years.

Secondly, the people who classified kwa group or language did so on assumption because most of them aren't linguists. Infact Greenberg criticised the lumping up of languages in Africa,hurriedly. I had information on this on, ‘Arab origin of Yoruba'. ‘Kwa' as a word has no meaning in Yoruba land. A people with the largest population in West Africa.

Thirdly, on the divergence of the language that you so believed clearly has a flaw because, there are no way an affiliated languages or with cognates wont have slight semblance even if the word is stretched out the original pronunciation. Einar Haugen made this assertion in the book ; Ecology of Language. For example, the English language developed from a peculiar group from ancient Germanic stock and the bitter truth is that this language still exist and being spoken. How could yoruba language be so divergent that there re no connection appart from war captives or intermarriages Infact, the Edo, Igbo ,Idoma aren't intelligible to yoruba language which is makes your perspective not acceptable . Do you doubt? Check Philandé Leo on his contribution on the words shared between Modern Yoruba and Ancient Kemet(Egypt) .How could people among the Kwa group,who are closely related to Gbe people thaa referred to father as Fari, a name asssociated with Pharaoh-Faroe not known among Yoruba's? . The Borgu in ther ancient times called Faroe as Barkhu which name similar to the way the coptic in Egypt called Pharaoh. Yet, the Borgu language isnt intellligible to yoruba.You can verify Borgu's language through Ehtnologue of Bénin language.

Fourthly, On Proffessor Akinjogbin account on the two dynasty that existed in IleIfe can be found in his book and Suzzane Blier's book, Art in Ileife, Birth Place of Yoruba. Professor Akinjogbin exerted that 44 king list existed in ancient Ileife and that Obalufon II era was when the there two kings which made it 46 king list.A period civil war broke out in ancient Ileife. Funny enough tests carried out on the artifacts found in Ile ife was produced around 11th-12th century. From that period to 2018 is not up to 2000 years. And the Ileife reigning king is the 51st one on the tbrone. Can only 44 kings ruled for 5600 or 2600 years from your calculation? A people that was seen to very organised ,with a government system that was patterned after monarchial system with no absolute control on all. Please note that Professor Ogundiran confirmed the date of the artifacts; royal mask and others. The point here is that no known kings among the 44 were remembered nor any neighbouring groups had knowledge of such kings. Is it possible for such to be if Yoruba as a people had lived amongst these people before language divergence?

On a last note, the 60s is different from 21st century, where information is easily accessible. Reality on the current finding is what I need to know and not issues based on sentiment. There are two or three letters word I posted on , ‘Arab origin of Yoruba' which were some of the ancient words used by Yoruba, that I will want you to kindly interpret them in your language if you are Ibo or Idoma etc. So as to oof the connection with these words I posted, sir.


Cheers

RedboneSmith:
Radiocarbon dating? We are talking languages here, sir; not excavated artifacts.

Have you heard of glottochronology?

Are you at all familiar with historical linguistics?

Yes sir , I am familiar . But are you also familiar that language and gene don't always match? My brother , you didn't inform me of where the professor got his citation or self. The professor assertion of 4000 BCE has no backing of this date. This has been argued against even by Akinjogbin. In fact, there is no way the linguistic connection can be without traces of it. Kindly read about ecology of language by Einar Haugen

0balufonlll:
Stop claiming Ife or acting like you know anything about it, I will keep being a problem to your posts if you keep at it. Oh, other people’s works who spent decades at it are flawed but your own work is the baba abi?

There are just too much you do not know but you want to continue to seek unnecessary relevance. I would have shared the link to this page with some of the folks here to see your posts and call you out as well but it will make no sense to have folks loitering this place.

My own is just to add to claims of Ife history in your post that may be wrong, o tan.

Ekaaro, ojumo ire o.

P.S: end up like others that deleted their monickers? Is that you trying to gas yourself up, bro? I had all of those handles & deleted them. I delete my handles when they get to a certain number of posts. Now, do not think deleting them had anything to do with you. You are one funny brother.

Ojumo ire . Kaaro. I insist share it if you are sure of what you posted. I want you to be honourable on it if I claimed Geesi. Funny enough, Geesi still fall with in my family lineage but I did not claim Geesi . There are some things that you skipped although not important but be honest and truthful.

Well, the last part of your post is likened to a young man filled with vigour as you claimed IFE too from Obalufon's lineage tried to downplay my assertion on my lineage until I didnt see him anymore because I was waiting for him to bring evidence againy my ancestor. Infact he had sworn to rubbished me the same as you see yourself when you disrespectfully said, ‘ I will circulate your ancestor'. So kindly do the needful by posting it. I dare you.I dare you. I dare you.

Well, I am like the moon among all that desired to be recognised. When they all consulted IFA for recognition .Well, IFA gave him and others advise to do some sacrifices and, he, Osupà did the sacrifice bestowed upon him so that he will be recognised and he became recognised and glanced at as King Amororo but no one can look up at the sun(oorún) without shedding tears.
Plainly, there were sacrifices that had been done for and by I Olu as being glanced at and recognised by all whoever I had met in person or not even those I will meet in the future. Funny enough,I wasnt looking for such on a faceless platform which is just for knowledge sharing even if people acknowledged my posts. Trust me I see it as no big deal as I am not different from others who are among the believer of this revelation. I doff my hat to'em all.

So if indeed you know, you will thread with caution and understand because it is beyond you and I. Jokingly you may think it is not possible but kindly keep record of things on this forum as you are a scholar because ,I will continue with my work until you see it on some people's shelf.

I will be honest with you, sè pélé pélé nítorí ójó olà . Hmmmm, iwà ní óbà àawùrè. I have advised you....


Blessed day to you.

RedboneSmith:
"During the later stages of the Late Stone Age, as farming turned wandering folks into settlers (from about 4000 BC), the scattered spread of farming people living in the West African region slowly began to get differentiated into related clusters and groups speaking proto-languages consisting of dialects that were related to one another.

Available linguistic evidence indicates that many such groups and clusters slowly formed on the banks of the Middle Niger, mostly in the area of the Niger—Benue confluence and above it. This linguistic evidence suggests that the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Gbagyi and Igbo belonged to a cluster of languages, now called Kwa sub-group of languages by modern scholars, belonging to a larger family of languages now called the Niger-Congo (or Nigritic) family of languages.

The small cluster was concentrated roughly around the Niger—Benue confluence. Over thousands of years, the groups in this cluster slowly separated as they developed distinctive characteristics, probably the last language groups to separate being the Igala and Yoruba. One study suggests that the proto-Yoruba and proto-Nupe language sub-families seem to have migrated from a little further up the Niger, slowly expanding towards the confluence, and that during that process each finally became differentiated from a mother language group.6

The clear implication of all this is that the origin of the Yoruba people as a linguistic and ethnic group belongs in the process of slow differentiation of proto-groups which occurred in the Middle Niger and around the Niger—Benue confluence, beginning about 4000 BC and continuing for thousands of years. It is, therefore, in this area that we must find the first home of the Yoruba as one people — the area close to the Niger—Benue confluence and further up the Niger, where the southern Nupe and the far northeastern Yoruba groups — the Yagba, Jumu, Ikiri, Oworo, Owe, and Bunu (now collectively called the Okun Yoruba by some scholars) — and the northernmost Igbomina, live today."

~ From "A History of the Yoruba People" by Professor Stephen Adebanji Akintoye.

Professor Akintoye is a professional historian. Not an amateur dabbling into something he is ill-equipped to grasp properly. He has been doing serious history for sixty years.

Yes sir , a renowned professor of History but did Radio Carbon test agree to this 4000 BCE oooo? Where did Igbomina and Okun as a whole existed around 4000BCE in Middle Niger? Do you know Igbomina kingdom's King list is not up to 100?

macof:
There is only one question i have for you for now; If Yoruba are descendants of Hebrews why did we need christianity to expose us to Hebrews? Certain families should have traditions of Hebrews and spread the knowledge of their existence

I mean even Islam came years before christianity yet Yoruba seemed oblivious to the existence of the Hebrew or Jewish people

Yes Islam came before christianity but Orun is not in ancient Arabic as it is seen in Hebrew ‘or',which is fire-light . Even, Yoruba oral account even recorded in IFA corpus did mentioned Orunmila coming from Orun, which showed semblance with Ur -Or in Middle East.True or false is left for anyone to agree to it. Yoruba of ancient acknowledged migration from their oral acount which people like you and others have disagreed upon but some informatiion in this 21st cant be wrong when many of these wesstern researcher are interpreting ancient Pictographs, Hieroglyphs,cuniform,meanwhile we are reffering only to Oral account.

Furthermore one of the major reason for the christians to find yoruba history fascinating was the manner at which who is who is known in their historical account. From the kings to the commoners in the acient time. And before now ,there was an account that the whereabout of the Hebrews of ten tribes was unknown when they disappeared in Egypt between the Hykos invasion and when the Hykos were chased out of Egypt,with a population of over 200,000,according to other account ,it is higher so they( researchers) were looking for the ten lost tribe of ancient Hebrew which was documented in Papyrus of Babylonian, Greek Roman, Egyptian and Persian Cuneiform etc.,Do you know how many times Roman Empire and some other European theologists have doctored the Bible to fit in to their skin complexion? Look up King James version for reading sake even if you arent Christian oriented but view the complexion of Hebrews. Do you know geneaology really begun around 15th century in Europe ? This is somethings that has been eternal with Yoruba Race . Unfortunately part of Yoruba history is lost which must be reconstructed. If you doubt, why is Yoruba history centered around Odua the King and Obatala? Meanwhile both men died . What about Orunmila, was he a human being or not ? Who was his father if he was a human being? Did any part of Ifa corpus acknowledged that Orunmila married? As a scholar, if you are among the gods, you will know that this journey has nothing to do with distortion of a well cherished nation like Yorubas but to be place her in a more respected role she need to play in the commodity of nation as the chosen of God whom he , God spoke with their ancestors.

Paretomaster1:
Ogah, Rakunmi is not a Yoruba word...

It is an old Yoruba word for camel. I grew up knowing it.

Paretomaster1:
Ogah, Rakunmi is not a Yoruba word...

It is an old Yoruba word for camel. I grow up knowing it.

1kinggy:
Can I like this 100x?

Of course not Sir.......

absoluteSuccess:
You are right my brother, you are always on point.

Never mind, your appreciations are never lost on me, my great prince. You know it lifts us all up together. We are doing the work now, the future greats will appreciate us as our forebears did the ancestors. Orisa Akunlebo were the ancestors that men served on their bended knee. It was not a given, they earn it. Yes, but how?

The ancestors too did deal with a lot of difficulties in their time and they did scale through, through diligence, determination and faith in themselves and their Creator, Olorun Olodumare, Oba atenilegelege fori sapeji omi. He was the inspiration behind Yoruba migration, hence the saying,

Aye l'oja orun nile,
adia fun Olodumare Baba at'aye matu,
Aye l'oja orun nile eyin ero,
bee de'le aye bee gbagbe orun,
e o j'iyin, e o j'abo oun ti eri.

That's God speaking at the valedictory service of the migrants, before departure from their homeland. Note that the word is directed to the crowd by the high priest of God, as received from "Olodumare Baba At'aye matu". If God has been involve in our history from time, He will see us through the thick and thin of time till the end of time.

Olodumare baba ato-aye matu is Yoruba for 'God the father, who protects our homeland from disintegration'. And, do we have any problem? No, we do not. Its ideal to have some little troubles here and there as common to all men. It's all that makes or break a man. My life challenges draw me closer to God, I would have been an atheist.

The ancestors did went through terrible time in the foundation age or so, as repleted in tradition, one of the precept of Owonrinsogbe said

Eekun abara yiyi,
alufo l'orun keregbe,
adia fun onikosi ope,
tii s'omo Olorun ansaadi.

Ifa, iwo l'omo onikosi ope,
ifa, iwo l'omo Olorun ansaadi,
ifa gbami o,
iwo lotonii gba.

Ifa gbami lowo olokun gbooro.

The last part seems to show that the awo's fate was hanging in the balance when the verse was penned. He was asking for the God of our refuge to save him from the one with a long noose. Like our progenitors of old, we will continue to look up to the God of our refuge, just as the great-fool up there look up to his university as 'heaven' and his prof. as 'god'.

Consider this iyere ifa, its beautiful for situations.

Ifa loni'le aye, Olodumare lo l'orun,
Ifa lo ni'le aye o, Olodumare lo l'orun,
Eniyan go lagoju, won seb'awon gbon.

I salute you deeply my brother, and am not bottered about the lecturer up there because he is a young man whose perspective is limited to his surrounding. Ti èlègán lojú .....ìgí àrùwè.
Ahhh the last part of the iyere Ifa fascinates me, which says, ‘Eniyan gó lagoju won se ba'won gbon' because tà' ni o wà gbón bi kí nsè èlèdumarè ? Éní ti o ba fé gbon à juba ogbon... Èmi jubá ógbón ki ogbon to mi wa ki àgó jiná sí mì......Àshé momi. Àpè mo'rà ní à n wípè tèmídírè.



Cheers

hayoholla:
obalufonlll
olu317
absolute success
macof
obalufon

dont you think at some point there was diffusion in yoruba history, I am starting to think yoruba is a the merging of two culture, one aboriginal and indigenous and the other foreign; which makes me think the aboriginal were kind of connected to the ibos or rightly put were a giant cluster until they split of at some point and the foreigner were the dominant group with little or no difference to the indigenous group, only that they have a superior culture that dominated the indeginous group both in language and way of life in general! I think they kind of reconnected back to the beginning where it all started.

mr olu317, this is for you sire. I read somewhere that the hyskos were infact the isrealite of old, that the various pharoahs that reigned in old egypt did not come from a single bloodline or race, that egypt itself has been invaded many times and many pharoahs of different ancestry and bloodlines has ruled there. the reason why I brought this up was because. you said somewhere in ur post that the early hebrew and the ethiopian nubian lived in egypt. the article also was of the opinion that the hyskos were driven out because of their domineering influence in culture and importantly, because of their numerical strenght. maybe they were driven eastward to present day yoruba nation. just a wide guess.

I am anticipating your contributions from you all. maybe we are "subtlely" agreeing on the same thing afterall!

The are rumours about the Hykos as being Hebrew shepherd Kings that lived in Tanis ,in part of Egypt.But it has been debunked by some scholars.Despite the fact that Hykos Pharaohs was first claimed by first century Israelite historian called Joseph Flavius. And Ralp Ellis also did some compelling study when he compared some of the Pharaohs with Biblical kings in his book, ‘Tempest & Exodus'. Joshua J .Marks, wrote an Article on the Hykos.

Well in as much as the world history is interrelated, the unraveling continues,which has always been the basis of juxtaposes of Semitic and Yoruba cognates. Funny enough, none amongst the aboriginal claimants can categorically say Yoruba is older than Ibos in Nigeria. This is because, archeology has proven this beyond reasonable facts. But here we are, we find people repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again, when human history is scientifically studied through every possible means to achieve the historical account of humanity.

0balufonlll:
Loool this man is tripping the fxxk out. . Olaochi come get your homeboy o!

Since you want to play childish games, please tell us who your ancestor was 5 generations back then we can speak on Oduduwa’s father who was thousands of years back.

Who is your ancestor? No one knows who he is here in Ife, stop laying claims. You don’t belong here.

You are not an Ooni’s descendant, stop lying! These your claims from distance is the problem - you are disconnected from here and you do not know what is what. You want to sit behind a computer & lay claims.

All ruling houses know themselves and those who are not of royal descent but have their lineage houses beside or within royal compounds & they are being cut to size, not to mention you wey dey beyond Ilesa.

Stop deluding yourself, people of royal houses here & those who migrated to other places know who they are. In the whole of Ife, post Oduduwa era migrants of royal blood are Ifewara of Ooni Olojo Agbele of Yannigan compound, Ife Odan of Ooni Ogboru of Ogboru Royal compound, Sooko town in Ipetumodu also of Ogbooru Royal compound, Oke Igbo of Ooni Derin of Giesi Royal compound & Ifetedo.These compounds have their compounds in these towns and they come here to partcipate in ipade omo ile periodically & also have crown-prince investitures like we have here in Ife.

It is so intense that royal compounds know those founded by sons & those founded by females. In essence, those who have rights to the crown and those who do not. That is just to show you it is way too serious for someone to sit in the corner of a room & start laying claims.

Does your family come here to participate in periodic ipade omo ile? NO. Does your family do the crown prince investiture & so you know what crown princes are called? No. You have falsely attached yourself to Giesi in the time past & then recently Lafogido . Abeg, choose 1. Pick a struggle.

I will circulate your ancestor Luusi’s name around this week again & I’ll be sure to further burst your bubble here. Nor be only Ooni’s descendant, stop famzing. We don’t know you! .

If you followed this Ooni’s selection process you would have known how houses that hitherto claimed royalty were exposed when they were interviewed to state their ancestors’ contemporaries & so on. You’ll be surprised the Giesi & Lafogido houses you have claimed know their ancestor’s siblings, offsprings & contemporaries and where each settled in Ife or migrated to.

If you want to push your luck, visit Ife, I’ll host you & take you to Giesi & Lafogido compounds for you to be interviewed - but it would have to be on camera for everyone here to see you get served properly. Abeg just accept the offer, you go tell us the location where your ancestor spill blood.

Like Yoruba folks say, age is not agba. Mo ti se awo de oju ami & if I enter your hometown today in traditional circles, your own people will treat me better than they will or have ever treated you. You will be brushed aside and will not even be able to enter places in your own town that I can enter. This is what an agba is. So making reference to an imaginary youthful vigour is BS. Try another angle.

I know it pains you that I keep setting you straight and exposing your wrong claims about Ife and I won’t stop till you get your facts together or take Ife out of your falsehoods.

Every Ife person, from the Ooni down to the youngest toddler is tired of the continuous conjectural craps dished out by ignorant folks who are bent on falsifying claims to suit whatever agenda. Serious work is going on underground & it is only a matter of time before publications are rolled out to tell Ife history by the Ife. It hurts you that you do not know and have to rely on internet and your fantasies but that is not my problem.

If you like swim in the gutter you don’t want to descend into, my own is to check your false claims about Ife. Simple. It is the same way Mr. Absolutesuccess who is knowledgable in the history of his people will call anyone out if they made false claims about the Awori.

As for scholarly reference, if you want, I can bombard you with authors & their books. Those in my possession and those I am trying to acquire, that isn’t a problem for me. You are the one who has been unable to cite scholars & their works apart from Olumide Lucas, your mentor. . Below is a picture of works on Ife/Yoruba history I used for the chapter 1 of my thesis alone - so you know I’m not poorly read like you are.

Just imaging bringing up journals and books to proof nothing relevant ? Me, poorly read? I see but like I had said, answer the questions I had asked you D. about the peope I mentioned. Are you sure I claimed Giesi? Proof it. Who was lafogido? Who was Lajadoogun? Who was Ogboru? Who was Lajamisan? . Anyway, you are good at showcasing rhetoric and a master of it ,so continue. Why on a rush on taking me around ? Oh so you are going to be my tourist guide in my ancestral home? Continue . Please concentrate on your thesis,while using Yoruba and IFE's documented account, that has flaws,just as I had said that these information of yours litter the internet . If you want tobe relevant,do something different so that your name will be written on the sands of time. . And I assure, you will see me and I hope you can stand the test of it.....because if you are the type that Look for cheap relevance, I AM NOT. Then bring up Luusi's case so that you will end up like others that deleted the ‘monikers' . I assure you on it. Bibiire ko sè foworá.

Trust me, you are a distraction...

0balufonlll:
Mr. Olu & I have or had no problems. We are cool. He likes Hebrew, a whole lot of AAs think they are Hebrew too & hey, it is a trend, it will pass. Can’t hold ill feelings over what a grown man chooses to identify as. We have had thoughts we agreed on & thoughts we diverged on.

I will & only slide through when Ife history is skewed to suit a narrative other than what shaped inter-group relations & socio-political arrangement of Ife.

Can your sibling or cousin narrate the history of your own immediate family (that is your wife & kids) structure? No. You may share early history with your siblings but at a point each sibling carves individual histories that can only be spoken on by someone from the inside not the outside - this is the only area I step in.

Mr. Olu is Yoruba but not from Ife. Can’t let folks continue to scuttle Ife history, the Samuel Johnsons, Alaafins, Olubinis, Olugbos of this world have done enough & Ife is working extensively underground to put a stop to that. Ife will tell its own history, it won’t be told by an outsider.

Olugbo & Ooni have/had no qualms. Olugbo knows his roots & place. He just tried to step out of the shadow of the Ooni like a number of other kings have tried to after Ooni Aderemi passed.

Stop making scholarly references look as if you have mentioned 10s of scholars to support your regurgatating views,which I have done several times. Are you the owner of IFE to know who can lay claim to Ileife? My own ancestors spilled blood, sometimes die to make Ileife has relevance, and you are typing incoherent information.
Mind you ILEIFE CANNOT referred to men of great importance in the past and till the end of time with great exploit without talking about my ancestors. So define Mr. Olu since you know him very well.. Èemó rùkùtú pébépébé....... If Oranmiyan hadnt returned to Ileife,then he would have been called a ‘foreigner'?
Funny lot. Obviously, you are a young person at the manner of your youthful vigour because I sense it in your screenshots. Ride on but let your information has bite to knock off the information from the initiated western researchers that also claimed Yoruba had Hebrew's connection.

Again, since you had travel through time to venture into the past,please do the needful to explain who was Odua's father ? I am 100% confident you dont know and you will never know,the same way you dont know the meaning of ‘Adimula' because you have not done research outside the little you know about yoruba Race. Mr lecturer,If you can't provide the answer to the above ,then, you don't have any relevancy on the subject matter. After all, I provided screenshot of Hebrew that has cognate with ancient Yoruba words. Kindly counter each with concrete evidence. The information I posted are relatively new,compared to the ones posted centuries ago. Infact, some are even two or three letters word,so dont say, it could be ‘contraction', because ,it wont work . Perhaps, I would have provided more screenshot so that you will be amazed but not ready at this moment.......I know you dont have anything more to show,so kindly know your information litters the Internet but mine isnt, which makes it different.

Trust me,you dont know because it is bigger than you .....I wouldn't go beyond this because I don't want to get dirty with you but you kept drawing in that direction. Although I wont do such because Bíbíìrè ko sèfoworá... On a last note,I know you know and if you dont know I am not Obalufon's but Ooni's descendant.

Read very well Mr...Ancient times. How many princes live ILE IFE again? You can help yourself with the investigating paraphernalia of princes of ancient time.

Trust me, you are a ‘baby' and I dont owe anything apart for you to feed your eyes to the things you have no clue about this because it is bigger than you. As usual ,when one is clueless,he or she engage in character assasination . It is will do you great deal of good to read through so as to expose yourself.

Was I the one that showed that ignorantly mentioned ‘mayheem' to disprove my information as the meaning of ‘water' in ancient Hebrew's lexicon ? No of course not, because you were the one that did so, as to score unncessary point.

If you want to learn ancient Hebrew,then say so . because I can make you study harder to disprove me . Infact, I can refer you to where to begin from.The ancient Hebrew will do the tric . Oh yes,before I forget, ‘Laban' is among the things you don't know. And MetaPhysical,posted a link for all who care to add more to his or her value.So help yourself by reading through to know the meaning of ‘Laban'.

Oorún- is light of the day(sun). A word indigenous to only Yorubas ,in Subsahara Africa but found in Middle East. The cognate in this word is found in ancient Hebrew's lexicon,which was known in ancient Hebrew as ‘or'( light of the sun– light of the day)

Is this coincidental too? Ignorance is a grandeur disease.

Below is the screenshot.