₦airaland Forum

0balufonlll:
You could just say you do not know about compound head rather than say it does not exist. Where I am from, every family compound has Baba Ile - Baale (compound head, usually the oldest man) folliwed by Loogun (usually a Youth). They organize monthly family meetings at the family compound. While we are all Yoruba & share similarities across board, there are also core elements to each sub-group that is alien to the other. I am sure in your place, there are words & practices alien to mine. You may doubt my proficiency in Yoruba language, that is legitimate. Just don’t doubt my proficiency in Ife language



Ikatun/Eku became used interchangeably when a standardized Yoruba that cut across board developed. There are a lot words original to your subgroup that have now been replaced with the standard/national Yorubabor used interchangeably. Ihare’fe is Otun Ife, Isoro Ife is Osi Ife both groups make up Agba Ife, don’t make that mistake baba. Let me give you a good example of variances in sub-groups political kini Iharefe is Ife while Oyomesi is Oyo. They play different roles in each kingdom even though they look like they should serve the same purposes from first look of it. It is Ogboni in Oyo, Osugbo in Ijebu but it is Mole in Ife. If you mentioned Mole to Oyo or Ijebu they will not understand but mention it to an Ife, e go grab. So each group has its indigenous lexicon and operational term which mean the same things.

You still mixed it up. Baba ilè is different from Báàlè because the former is referring to the oldest in the family. You tricked me, because you didn't put accent on it . Baba Ilè cut across nearly all Yoruba land.
Molè is used in IFE and Eastward part and other suburb of Yoruba land.



Cheers

0balufonlll:
I anticipated this problem. You're selectively using terms that suit your theory. 'Baba' in old & modern Yoruba is father. Grandfather is Baba nla or Baba Baba. Like I stated previously, 'Ba' is a contraction/slang of Baba. Also, have you lived and done an extensive study on the old variations of the sub-groups emboldened or you just said what you think is? Also, which of these sub-group's dialect is the oldest and original, original enough to be used find solid traces to Hebrew? For illustration of contraction see Baale (compound head) is Baba ile, Baale (area chief) is Baba ile. It also reflects in the contraction of Beeni to Be and so on.



You did not know 'Ebi' is an Oyo Yoruba word, did you? Since Ife use 'Ikatun/Eku' for family, I am guessing it is Oyo that is related to Hebrew then? 'Ebi' as a word was an Oyo Yoruba word that has infiltrated dialect of other sub-groups. The same way Aafin is an Oyo word while for Ife it is Aofin. Sir, you'll have to do a thorough study to dig lexicon of each sub group and words they borrowed from where to convince serious people with serious questions. You'll be surprised from your study that you've employed Oyo Yoruba originated words which are very recent to argue connection with a foreign culture.



You are the only person (and your co-thinkers) who think Hebrew and Yoruba share language. The basis of posting Bowen's pages up there was to show Yoruba words can be found across several languages across the world and several languages across the world can be found in Yoruba.

Quite funny with your analysis of Baba Ìlè because it doesnt exist. In all my research on intriquing yoruba word list, there is no where in Yoruba lexicon that Baba Ilè(HUSBAND) exist but Báàlè as Husband. I understand Énì à àbà nì o báà nì orì'lé ( Báàlé ). This simply mean the first settler,especially princes,hunters,noble families etc as the pioneer leader on the land.Honestly, I doubt your proficiency on yoruba language, because you misinterprete a simple yoruba lexicon.
Secondly, IKATUN/EKU are used interchangeably for Ébì,and not Oyo's word. The same way Ihare (Ahare) is interchageably used for Agba in ILEIFE and other places. Afterall, Oranmiyan was born in ILEIFE and came back to ILEIFE .So,there is nothing like Oyo's word list .The only crime on Ajayi's Crowther is the misrepresentation of other Yorubas at the detriment of Oyos.
Again studies have been done on all Yoruba speakers enclave and it has been proven that they all speak the same language but variant dialects. Each Yoruba from all corners are intelligible amongst the Yoruba speakers ,except IGALA that speak 60%+ which didn't make it as a Yoruba dialect because for a language to be same ,it need be 70% intelligible.

Lastly, The ‘Káàrè O bà mì', is the last part in my ORIKI....I guess, you have a clue about it.

0balufonlll:
Araba Agbaye at Oke Itase family compound in Ile-Ife.



The emboldened is not true. Baba is father while Baba nla Baba is grandfather in old Yoruba. In modern Yoruba Baba is still father while Baba Baba is grandfather. I should add that Ba and Ye are short/slang version of Baba and Yeye (both referring to father & mother respectively).

[Quote] One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form. The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction

The emboldened explains the entire theory you are pushing.

No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.

You are not related to Tapa & Edo but you are in the same ebi (family) as the Arab, Persians and so on? Interesting times we are in for sure.

Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

To convince anyone with your attempt here you'll first have to state which of the Yoruba dialects you are employing to push your theory. Afterwards you'll have to identify the oldest Yoruba dialect and inform us if the dialect you have employed is the oldest. If we break those words you've listed above by region, you'll find that they are different from these ones you've presented to find a Hebrew origins. So, you see, sir, your theory is on shaky grounds.

Endless list but the above is a starter. The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above. Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.
Cheers

Cheers, Olukumi.

Hahaha, so you don't know Bà bà was for grandfather or an elderly man ? Come of it bro.
First, the Yoruba dialects which include : Oyo ,Ekit,Egba,Ijebu ,Ondo,Ijesha,Aworis, Igbomina etc, never use baba but Ba,Uba,Aba. Baba was coined from bà bà to acknowledged elderly and it gradually became a part of the Yoruba lexicon and interchangeably for father. My father (bà mì/ùbà mì/àbà mì) ,your father (bà ré /ùbà ré/àbà ré)

Take for instance, a common saying, ‘Káàrè Bà mi,'
Káàrè bà is universal amongst Yoruba dialects, why is the saying not ,‘Káàrè Bàbà mi'?'
The saying is alien to Tapa and all groups you have mentioned

Secondly, I didn't disregard the link with the after mentioned groups up there because intermarriages existed between Yorbuba and many people but that Yoruba had a system that protected them in the past and in the future from muddling up with anyone else through their Ébì system.
Family system exist in Tapa and all the mentioned groups but it is not called Ébì because the word Ébì mean something different in their lexicons.

Thirdly, calling a spade is a spade is my kind of being. And I have no intention to making Yoruba feeling superior to anyone, once each group respect one and another. If ancient Hebrew lived aproximately 5000+ miles from Yorubaland,how did the language show same meaning ? Yet,Yoruba immediate neighbours dont share these strong words with yorubas. The point here is that, ‘Oùn tì o bá jó oùn là mà fì wè oùn'.

Finally, Bàbà ló, Àlà gbàrà ló, Àkónì ló. Hmmmm, may his soul rest in peace.

0balufonlll:
Araba Agbaye at Oke Itase family compound in Ile-Ife.



The emboldened is not true. Baba is father while Baba nla Baba is grandfather in old Yoruba. In modern Yoruba Baba is still father while Baba Baba is grandfather. I should add that Ba and Ye are short/slang version of Baba and Yeye (both referring to father & mother respectively).

[Quote] One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form. The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction

The emboldened explains the entire theory you are pushing.

No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.

You are not related to Tapa & Edo but you are in the same ebi (family) as the Arab, Persians and so on? Interesting times we are in for sure.

Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

To convince anyone with your attempt here you'll first have to state which of the Yoruba dialects you are employing to push your theory. Afterwards you'll have to identify the oldest Yoruba dialect and inform us if the dialect you have employed is the oldest. If we break those words you've listed above by region, you'll find that they are different from these ones you've presented to find a Hebrew origins. So, you see, sir, your theory is on shaky grounds.

Endless list but the above is a starter. The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above. Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.
Cheers

Cheers, Olukumi.

Hahaha, so you don't know Bà bà was for grandfather or an elderly man ? Come of it bro.
First, the Yoruba dialects which include : Oyo ,Ekit,Egba,Ijebu ,Ondo,Ijesha,Aworis, Igbomina etc, the word for father is never baba but Ba,Uba,Aba. Baba was coined from bà bà to acknowledged elderly and it gradually became a part of the Yoruba lexicon and interchangeably for father.

Take for instance, a common saying, ‘Káàrè Bà mi,'
Káàrè bà is universal amongst Yoruba dialects, why is the saying not ,‘Káàrè Bàbà mi'?'
The saying is alien to Tapa and all groups you have mentioned

Secondly, I didn't disregard the link with the after mentioned groups up there because intermarriages existed between Yorbuba and many people but that Yoruba had a system that protected them in the past and in the future from muddling up with anyone else through their Ébì system.
Family system exist in Tapa and all the mentioned groups but it is not called Ébì because the word Ébì mean something different in their lexicons.

Thirdly, calling a spade is a spade is my kind of being. And I have no intention to making Yoruba feeling superior to anyone, once each group respect one and another. If ancient Hebrew lived aproximately 5000+ miles from Yorubaland,how did the language show same meaning ? Yet,Yoruba immediate neighbours dont share these strong words with yorubas. The point here is that, ‘Oùn tì o bá jó oùn là mà fì wè oùn'.

Fourthly, Àlà gbàrà ló, Àkónì ló. Hmmmm, may his soul rest in peace.

Fatherofdragons:
Are u saying that u didn't know that some igbos had the believes that they had a connection with ancient Hebrews, even went as far as inviting jews here in Nigeria for a DNA test?

It's either u didn't now that or u know but choose to be a hypocrite.

The igbos also know u ppl as Ndi Nbati Nbati, Ndi ofe mmanu, Ndi na nuiyi and lots more.

Tell ur ppl to stop insulting some misguided igbos for been jews since they themselves have the same stupid notion in mind.

Wonders in NL with all manner of people that I have read their views as regard online attitude likened to yours. In this section, it is either you have knowledge of it or not. And If you don't have anything concrete to add to it,then learn from all the people, who are in support or against Yoruba's identity of the past and the connection to Ancient Hebrew.
If you have issue with the not widely read,then continue to engage in that forum but not here because I don't expect you to make mockery of your ethnic group on here because some impeccable characters, abound in your ethnicity .
Funny enough, Yoruba were not the ones looking for the largest lost tribes of Israel but the remnants of ancient Israelites themselves because God had told through their tenach to do so.
If Jews DNA did not match the Ibos,isn't Yoruba's problem,is it ?. After all, Beta Israel(Falasas),who were evacuated from Ethiopia to Israel didn't have any strong DNA match with the the main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews etc), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish. So, practically, something is wrong with Ibo's historical connection to the Hebrew.
And the connection of the Ibos to Israel through genetic have been null and void. Perhaps, Ibos should either showcase linguistic connection or tradition linking them to Mediterranean to proof that their ancestors were ‘ger'– strangers that once lived with the Jews because Judaism wasn't about a Race's colour but religion.

Fatherofdragons:
One thing about yoros is that they filled with so much envy, hate, jealousy, bitterness and ugliness.

Some igbos one certain time made similar claims to ancient jews ,but these coneheads mocked and called them names.

NOW they are shamelessly claiming what they insulted.

it quite unfortunate really.

We dont need to claim it because we are the chosen of God from time immemorial. Open your eyes! The most blessed land in Nigeria is Yoruba's. The arable land, mineral deposits, good weather, access to sea route etc. Practically unequal.. Where were you people when Sultan of Sokoto said it around 18th century? After all, over a dozen of western researchers made this claim and said as it regard their thought about Yoruba being connected to Middle East ,which some Yorubas disagreed with because of self pride and heritage. In fact, some said Yoruba had direct contact with ancient Hebrew. Do you people on the other hand have anything as this to claim Hebrew ?

Proof the list below wrong if they existed in your region before 18th century:

1 No deeply rooted kingly lineage system but egalitarian system.
2. No family system linking nearly all supposedly royal family to closely 90% + of all of them together to same lineage,which was a pattern in ancient Hebrew.
3.No language connection to ancient Hebrew
4.No connection to Solomon's knot
5. No known Art work that has visual human heads
6. No deeply rooted system of ancient Mediterranean sacrifice in your region
7. No priestly name linking Rabbi( priest master)to your ethnicity
8. No part of your DNA is found to be strange from Africa
9. No part of your history mentioned you people as having large calvary
10.No part of your history acknowledged you as cloth mortal etc.

The above statement were said by Oyinbos and other African men that have studied the Yoruba culture relatively.
On that day,you all will see the trooping into Yoruba land ,to acknowledged Yoruba more than before by the so called Hebrews because,many of them are offshoot of Yoruba's.

Yoruba knew you people from time immemorial as Ónìgìbìtì/ Énìgìbìtì gbogbo. A coined name for a cunning person or people.
Mind you,your opinion is not needed here but in politic section, where you people can use vulgar words with convenience
Dislike this? Get off the thread if nothing intellectual can be inferred by you but hatred filled.

0balufonlll:
I’ll try to keep this short, mans exhausted from the Araba’s burial festivities going on here.

I almost did not know how to respond to your post. It appears you did not understand my post & position.

- Bowen wrote that journal I posted screenshots from not ‘Conton’. My point however is that, like you do with drawing words & connections between Hebrew & Yoruba, what is your take with Bowen drawing words & connections between a variety of languages including Hebrew? What does this mean for your hypothesis? Does this mean Yoruba gave birth to all the languages Bowen referenced or Hebrew gave birth to all including Yoruba?

Which Àrábá? I understood your quote from Bowen perspective but deviated because Bowen was using borrowed words or shared words that were borrowed and didnt do extended research. After all,Bowen thought and claimed ,the word for father is “Baba",which is not true but Bà, Úbà, or Àbà. Baba is grandfather in the real Yoruba lexicon of old,even in spoken dialects, these three; Bà, Úbà, or Àbà are used interchangeably. One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form.
The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction. No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.
Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

Endless list but the above is a starter.

The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above.

Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.


Cheers

0balufonlll:
Bro Olu317,

Pardon this unrelated post but I have been wanting to share this but it manages to elude me daily but I am thankful to be able to share tonight.

In response to your theory on this threas: https://www.nairaland.com/627276/arab-origin-yorubas/11#68970998

You pursued Hebrew origins of Yoruba while the other brother pursued Arab origins.

I managed to recall I had seen these (screenshots) below early last year and thought to seek your opinion on it. Given Bowen was a well travelled man who observed languages about a century ago when they were in their better form than they are today, I’d like to think his thoughts here were solid. Now this man drew cognates between Yoruba & other world languages.

Now going by your theory(ies) on that thread, do all the cultures Bowen cited have a Yoruba origin or all of cultures have a Hebrew/Arab origin? Note that while Mesopotamia/Semerian cultures were tens of thousands of years old they are different from Arab & Hebrew cultures that are less than 10,000 years old. In essence, cultures listed in the screenshots are much older but I’d like to hear your thouhts still.

Contrary to some people,the ancient Hebrew disappeared when they were dispersed and taken to captivity in Babylon, when Aramaic was used to replaced the original Hebrew letters before another enslavement under Roman-Greek etc. But fortunately, there were pictographs to unravel the ancient Hebrew language that have been found. Take for instance, one of the Ancient Hebrew Alphabet is ‘BEYT' as ‘b'
sound,which is the second letter in the ancient Hebrew letters is ‘Beyt' and has a "b" sound.This letter is a picture of a nomadic tent such as would have been used by the ancient Hebrews and represents what is inside the tent - ‘THE FAMILY'. The meaning of this letter can be tent or within.

‘B'- Beyt mean : FAMILY

Yoruba:The Ébì simply mean‘ FAMILY'.This is the basis for my research.

Moorish:
olu, is "ajala" a yorubic name? cos I cannot find the word in Yoruba lexicon, however it has a meaning in arabic

it is also present in Sudan, Egypt and Mecca in some of their natural artifacts and it has a meaning in arabic

It is a purely a Yoruba name and not extended Yorubic.Have you suddenly forgotten that ‘aja' is heavily rooted among ancient Yoruba ancestors.The yoruba names and words are mostly descriptive. Take for instance,Ajaka,Ajaokuta,Ajayi,Ajayè,Ajagbè,Ajamaiye,
Ajagungbade,Ajagun,etc. Too numerous to mention.There are names that modern Yorubas are loosing to religious circle.

Hati13:
They were Muslim inhabitants of the Maghreb, North Africa, the Iberian Peninsula, Sicily, and Malta during the Middle Ages, who initially were Berber and Arab peoples from North Africa. (Source: Wikipedia)

They were a different kind of black. The type without broad nose as found in Egyptians pyramid. And Islam came into to North Africa's Morocco later,when the conquered Egypt.This was how their history was erased because the Jihadists propagating Islam erase people's history with ‘holy war'.

0balufonlll
I love your open mindedness,even if you find it surprising. And no! I did not pursue hebrew origin intentionally, never! There is no smoke without fire if you have deep knowledge of different world cultures as well as the languages,of the most debated Race on earth. Infact,I have more to gain locally as Yoruba than so called ‘Hebrew,' but God is the reason for this revelation with seeable evidence. Truthfulluly intermarriages does not mean same stock which made Yoruba extremely bias,with a saying, ‘ òmò àtì bà/bàbà kí ní oko kí o má sí àlà . This thickness of Yorubas being able to separate who is who is very intriguing. Hebrew culture is older than 10,000 years old contrary to your believe. If you have read the Christian Bible very well,you will know a personality called Moses, which meant ‘drawn from the river' a river in Egypt with unknown name . And the name was given by an Hebrew slave maiden that told pharaoh's princess. Funny enough, the original translation of the name is ‘ Moshe'. This word has has Yoruba etymology ; Mu ni Osé or, Mu ni osà. Literally ,drawn from Osé river or drawn from òsà river. The point here is that ,it is not possible for this semblance without connection and these extremely talented group of people are the dominant force. On your question, research as that period, wasn't thorough enough but today, Conton's perspective has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that your and mine ancestors are the reason the world would be saved by God . If you doubt, mention the actual words for the names for the following in Yoruba; poverty, mother, foreskin colour.
Perhaps, you will wonder why is such possible and begin to see from a deeper perspective. And these words are non African or anywhere even among Arabs.

Test me, I insist.


Cheers.

Moorish:
I made peace with that gentleman already and I have taken out the insults

Thanks olu

What's your take on my assertions

My take on this thread is a bit complex because you are right to a large extent. Let clearly say this that it was around 17th century that some Caucasians begun to differentiate people, with classification, because in ancient world powers such as
Egypt, Roma,Greek, etc people were dealt with based on status and not colour. The moors were of different look and some in the same manner the Arabs and Egyptians too. I have read Journal written by a muslim cleric called Ilori about shared words between Yoruba and Arabs. The reality is that the people that set up Ébì ystem were the crème de la crème in the ancient times that modified Yoruba ways of life. And these people were advanced in tevhnological know how,which made them unique in West Africa because they were migrants and the knowledge they came with was unique. The calvary you mentioned was accurate.They were rich people. Funny enough the word Ébì' is of Hebrew origin. My take on this thread is that the following were the ancestors of Yorubas: Arabs,Moors,Nubians, Ethiopians,Hebrews.

The reasons are these:

1. Arabs words are scantly found in Yoruba language.Apart from this,some Yoruba have link with Arabs ancestry. For example, Ilorin.

2.Moors ,patterns of irrigation or water system,temple ,arrows etc were found in Yoruba land.

3.Nubians are also found in little percentage of Bantoid group. Mostly captured men as servants and slaves.While females were married.

4.Ethiopians ancient way of circumcission of both male and female gender in many Yoruba towns were common in many with the exception of Ijebu and some others

5.Hebrews are the largest group among these Yoruba people with high concentration of linguistic connection.
.Even with high rate of twin birth which was an ancient identity of the ancient Hebrews.

Moorish:
I have modified the post sinistami

I maybe was a bit insensitive to other peoples feelings

Ok let us restart

Love this Omoluabi attitude of yours.

Cheers

Moorish:
That was clearly a joke hence the smiley

You did not insult me, not at all

I come here to find like minds so we can meet offline and work on collective passions

Seems like you have nothing productive to offer me . So

Good bye

Even a foolish man or woman has knowledge bestowed on him or her. So, no matter how little it is, each being has something to offer. And Yes,it is your thread but please don't pull people down. Respect is reciprocal.

We need not drag the la or nia out of context, because there were account that names were written wrongly or the pronunciation were different from the written form. This should not be the basis for us to loose focus on this task. In as much as it has been established that Odua descendants were the ones that used the cognomen or epithet in their panegyric. The meaning of the name is what we seek out.

0balufonlll:
I don’t know what your source is.

Here, what I hear and what I just heard right now asking my people is ‘Yeesi abimore kape l’ooni Adimula’ not Adimunia.

Adimula has no dialect. In Ifewara, to Oke Igbo, to Ife Odan, to Ifetedo where Ife is the spoken as a dialect, Adimula is what is used not Adimunia.

If you say so. I have no intention to drag this beyond unnecessary point.Pronunciation or writing out the panegyric could be a factor but hey, it is not the purpose of this thread. Let us not loose focus of the purpose of this thread.

Copy:baby124

Cheers

0balufonlll:
That certainly is not Ife dialect bro, sorry.

Are you sure?
How does these came into Ooni's Oriki:

‘Han merinla funfun sekeji Adimunia
Bilia oooo
Adimunia Orisa keji
Yesi a bimo re kope I’ooni o Adimunia.
Biila Egberin ekun
Ajalaye elegberin ikere
Egberin ekun naa si koni rise dodo Adimunia',

Can you clarify it?

Moorish:
What u must know is Samuel Johnson was a Christian prosletyzer, a British slave

I remain a moor, honourably

Allahu Akbar

So, Yoruba were Muslim from time immemorial? Very funny. Proof it.

I wil advise you to take up ancient Hebrew class and not the modern one because the modern Hebrew was developed from ancient ancient Aramaic,then through Roman - Greek language.The same way Yoruba language,which has become liturgy in South America is used with present day Latin in South America as a sacred words,when reciting Ifa corpus etc.
Ancient Hebrew is the dialects of YORUBA LANGUAGE. Kindly leave Lagos and other spoken Yoruba in different Yoruba cities out of it.

Ìírè o

Moorish:
My family friend from osun state looks like this man

Tell me you don't see Yoruba features in this moor

Facial look or tribal mark or body structure are not the determinant factor because of intermarriages but proof with either ethnography or linguistic connection; shared words even if the pronunciations are slightly different but must show same meaning ,while using philology.




Cheers

googi:
I do not think the brother op is even Yoruba ba!

On spot.

Using ILEIFE dialect,the name is Àdìmùnìà .

MetaPhysical:
Thank you my brother. God bless you and put his shield over you all days of your life.

Edumare a gbe wa!
Oduduwa a gbe wa!

Àashé

MetaPhysical:
In Adimula, Adimu is significant. The "la" at the end is a suffix.

Yoruba language deserve a thorough review to decode crypted words and meanings.

In the war titles Olorogun and Balogun, Ogun is significant, the suffix is Olori and Oba, respectively.
In the names Alamu, Alabi, Alake, Akanni, Akanbi, Akanke....the prefixes are attributes.


Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Hindustan (old name for India when it was a colony of Persia), Tajikistan, Uzbekistan.....
In these names the suffix "istan" is a root key to the Persian tongue.

In Europe consider England, Deutschland, Iceland, Scotland, Finland, Poland, Ireland, Netherland.....

Every language has this pattern of a prefix+significant name and or significant name+suffix.


What does the prefix "La", and the suffix "La" mean in Yoruba nomenclature? If we decode it we can get a somewhat true identity in ADIMU.
Yoruba root word is vast...

Oorisa I sight you. If eledumare is the reason I am on this revelation,You will be acknowledged forever. Pardon me if I sound too ambitious.
There are Orisas I have seen on this platform.I respect you because you are one of them.

googi:
This idea of Oduduwa's children going back to areas they were familiar with only brings into focus the different locations of Ife from the Northern area where they met, inter-married before moving further South for safety.

Hausa history claimed Yoruba was one of the children of their historical father. Even if that is false, it showed some familiarity or awareness of one another. Not to mention Tapa, Borgu and others.

Another point that must be taken into consideration is the role of River Niger and Benue that linked to the sea in Lagos. I remember reading about Aromire and Oloko families as great sailors that fared beyond Nigeria and Africa on the sea.

If you guys take the waterway into consideration instead of the land alone, it may shed light about Oduduwa knowledge of the sea, river and Olokun.

Ofcourse yes, their crew knew Omì-Odo, Okun, Ìbù omì.It is amazing.

0balufonlll:
Baba, it wasn't used by Oduduwa or any specific Ooni. It is like 'Alayeluwa', 'Olofin' (synonymous to Alaafin), Alase ikeji Orisa etc. All Oonis use it but it may not have began with Oduduwa. For example, Ooni began with either Obalufon ll or Oranmiyan. Olofin began with Oduduwa. In essence, each Ooni contributed to the institution of Ooni materially or verbally. Materially, for instance, Obatala through Osangangan contributed the Ade Are and Obalufon added materials to the aesthetic and spiritual aspect of the Ade Are. I hope you understand - Adimula did not begin with Ooni. Apart from Olofin, the other cognomen that began with Oduduwa has now been classified as an 'Awo' thing especially used during every Ooni-elect's 'Ilofi' phase and now out of circulation.

Of course yes,I do.Hmmm Classified as ‘Awo'... anyway, Àgbà l'ètu òmòdè là'wò

I appreciate

0balufonlll:
e ma binu, brother mi. I replied when I got to the office at the time. I guess my brain was muddled up while reading through your post.

mo bì'nu ooo.



Cheers.

0balufonlll:
Bro, you killed me with the emboldened. Akinyele’s data was collectted for him? You certainly do not know the man or about his work.

Like I said in another post, these Yoruba methods of preserving history help Yoruba know who is a citizen & who migrated from somewhere. See Prof Olukoya Ogen’s paper on the connection Usen & Idepe (Okitipupa) for instance. Everybody knows who is autochthonous & who came from somewhere; everybody knows whose fathers did exploits and who he did it with. And so on & so forth.

Egba was not an offshoot of Owu & neither was it vice versa. Wan da duro gbedegbe ni. While Egba was in central Yorubaland, Owu was a powerful state up north with Oyo as its tributary state for a while. Owu had internal problems that led to an implosion and they migrated to central Yorubaland. Prior to this period, after Owu had tucked Oyo under it and a good number of other towns, it conquered Iraye and this led to the dispersal of Iraye citizens back to Ile-Ife then some went to Aye town in Eiigbo LG, Osun; Efon Alaaye in Ekiti, Ife Ijunmu, Igbede & Ipoti Ekiti to mention a few. This dispersal of Iraye was right before Owu-Ife/Ijebu war. Egba exisyed on its own without connections with Owu. Rather, Egba& Ketu are related, they are offshoots of each other & had traditional relations they play in each other’s cultural activities such as coronation.

Finally sir, a good number of towns were already towns before princes settled. And also, not all who supposedly left ‘Ife’ or usurped occupied spaced were princes.

Let me share my thought I have always had about this ‘Obokun’ etymology/story. The period of Oduduwa’s purported blindness & Owa’s brine fetch were old times. Did Ife have a prior knowledge of the existence of the Atlantic at that time? I would like to think yes, going by Horton’s work where he employed several evidences to showcase Ife was at the center of trade where items from the Sahara/North Africa through Hausalands/Bariba were exchanged with items from Ijebu/Bini area. So I’d like to think, through southern Yoruba folks like Ijebu, Ife had a knowledge of the sea at this point. My confusion however is that, we have an Olokun grove and Olokun sacred well in Ife. The letter is purported to have been the spot from where the seas first cropped up. Now, if we have always had Okun (sea) pool from where Atlantic sprang from, couldn’t Owa Ijesa have gone to this spot to fetch water as opposed to going all the way to Lagos/Ijebu? I mean Ilesa is directly on the route where this Olokun pool lies. Couldn’t his journey to the local sea grove in Ife have informed the direction of his journey and eventual settlement not that has the Olokun laying right inbetween Ilesa & Ife? There is a trend in the migration pattern of Oduduwa’s sons. They settled or founded towns along the line of where they’ve explored not head to a strange land. E.g Oranmiyan already explored & founded Oko before Bini & Oyo giving him an idea towards Northern Yorubaland. After his time in Bini, he headed the same direction he had been before to found or settle in Oyo. Look at Obaloran, Oduduwa’s son, he had been at Iloran and chose to settle right there next to his mother. I do not know if you get my point sir? Why & how possible is it to go to Lagos to fetch sea water when sea water was right in a spot in Ife?

Good morning.

Oh no! You didn't read the post very well. I said,‘The point here is that Akinyele, yes rooted in Ibadan history, got information from researches conducted by him'. Oh yes, Ketu and not Owu,it was typo error.
The Yoruba as having knowledge as it regard Okun (Olokun) Ocean predated Nigeria.

Awesome piece

Cheers.

Strangely, the name was only used by one Ooni,presumably; Olofin Odua,which baffles me,considering different claim by other groups/ethnics that claimed relationship with him. What remained strange is that the title was used by a lord and king. Thereafter, I have not come across anyone in historical account who bore that name. Perhaps, the name mean something different.
Looking forward to the great minds who are willing to explain their own meaning, if there are.

0balufonlll:
Baba, there are two versions according to my little knowledge.

1. That Adimula stemmed from Oduduwa or a certain Ooni winning a wrestle match. He engaged in ijakadi/eke which involved grabbing/holding & emerged prosperous from.

2. That Adimula st
emmed from the betrayers within the Ife 13 communities who supported/held-fast to Oduduwa & eventually became rulers/wealthy. They left Obatala to hold on to Oduduwa & became prosperous.

In essence, Adimula, whichever way it is looked at means ‘saviour’.

I salute your wisdom my Sir. Thanks.

God bless you.

0balufonlll:
Baba, I respect your opinion but mineis that having the same names (in spelling but with likely different pronounciations/meanings) does not mean a connection between Efa of Edo & Efa in Ibadan. The connection between cultures in all of Nigeria is not my field, I have no authority to speak on it.




I pegged 14/15th century to Offa’s foundation. I said Oyo was much earlier than Offa. I never stated a period for Oyo. How you have picked a date I pegged & how it is wrong confuses me. . I don’t know if Oranmiyan firmed up a pre-existing Oyo but my people back home would say Oloyo, Oranmiyan & Owa Ilesa were siblings of the same mother. I haven’t investigated that perspective od Oyo early history, so I have no pedigree to speak on it.



If you have read Akinyele’s work you’d know Efa/Oje were within the purview of his work. I seem to accept what authors write? There’s a thing called ‘Historiography’. And Akinyele, from colonial reports & even Morgan’s revisions, was said to be deeply rooted in Ibadan history - the man’s work is an authority in Ibadan history. Professors of Yoruba history agree on that fact & that is that. Also, facts are not emerging in cultural history & that is why it is a dead aspect of history. The sub-field relies heavily on archeology for its ‘facts’. If you were a trained historian you would know this & not say ‘facts are emerging’. Brother, no fact is emerging. That is that. Ibadan a baby land? You do not seem to be aware of the Lagelu/Sango period of Ibadan history. Idoko & other migrant based communities are exceptions not the rule. You are oblivious to Egba history such that you do not know Efa & Oje were Egba towns. Egba Ake, Egba Agura etc were/are conglomerates of several independent towns. It is like the Awori, a single body but with numerous units under one large umbrella.

Oh pardon my usage of such coined word when I said ‘pegged',by you, because I thought you grouped Oyo,Offa along the Ibadan which was 16th century. Ibadan can be calles babyland although I used this word based on year's of people's settlement on this land and not prowess. Since you and I know many towns predated Ibadan's . Settlement such as Idanre,Owo, Igboho,Ado Ekiti, Otun, Ilesha-Ijesah, shaki, Owu that became refugees, in many towns today, Iwaro- a destroyed town during the war between,O go-ri-ele-me-sho(Ogbomosho) etc . Of course yes, I know the role of Lagelu in Ibadan's history. Furthermore, Oyo and Ibadan were powerful at different times and I didnt take away this fact. Do you know Egba is an offshoot of Owu? But today, Owu isn't as recognised among ancient power of Yoruba land because she waned authoritatively. And all thanks to Oyo writers of our history. And Indeed fact are emerging, in human history thoroughly via ethnography, philology,etymology ,hieroglyphs etc . Do you know Ga-Ewe people were groups of different cultures that merged together. Some claimed to had migrated from Congo - Bantu while some said they migrated through Edoland , to ILEIFE to Ouidah-Abomey Kingdom,to Ghana,and places they occupied presently in these different countries today. Infact, researchers in Bénn Republique and western world have done the grouping of the ethnicities and the dialects that belonged to the same language families via ethnography and philology tool. Funny enough, there authors that claimed Ga-Ewe were Yoruba offshoot outrigthly. Yet some of these people cannot point to their linkage to any family houses at ILEIFE. The point here is that Akinyele, yes, rooted in Ibadan history, got information from researches conducted by him,the same way Samuel Johnson got information from his as well etc but all these doesnt mean his total information is 100% accurate . Do you even know that king Gheezo of Abomey once sojourn to Yoruba land? Are you sure all the Yoruba historical accounts are properly documented by Yoruba men in Yoruba enclaves? No! because, some accounts are inconsistent with the evidence. Adding value and modification is what some of us will always campaign. Take for instance, IWARO, a destroyed town, emerged in the present day, deep heart of Oka Akoko, a Yoruba enclave. Can you imagine the distance? The point here is that there are connection, especially through Yoruba proverbs and renaming of settlement through migration. Agbo-Ilè - Ebi setting ,Oriki separate link Yoruba to their ancestral home. I met a guy who told me, he his from Ikare , Ondo state but originally from Ila Orangun.The man simply told me his father told him because according to him, their ancestors migrated because of war but their Agbo Ilè- Ebi setting,
that is held high made them had knowledge of who they are. Unfortunately, i met another man, a bilingual teacher, in his late thirty's (36-39) from Ouidah, Bénin Republique whose father was a third generation Yoruba man from Ibadan but the man only knew he is from Ibadan but doesn't know where it is and his Agbo Ilè. Depsite this, when he get to the Aafin Olubadan, his paternal home will be revealed, but imagine, how Yoruba keeps record of their identity? It is strictly amazing.
Lastly,when the book on The world human history was written , do you know how many Nigeria's Professor(s)was/,were among? A country known to be the most populous in Africa continent. Well,it only showed that some colour African Professors have done more researches than Nigeria's.

0balufonlll:
No, Adimula wasn't Oduduwa's real name.

Osi or Osin? Y0ruba brought this knowledge but I haven't verify it.
If you have knowledge of the meaning of Adimunia,share it.

0balufonlll:
You seem to have a proclivity for bothering yourself with drawing up connections especially where there is none. No offense intended, just stating an observation.

Now, while the post above is your opinion, you will permit me to disagree & also say that it is wrong in all corners.

Ibadan is an usurped city. All Egba towns that traversed present day Ibadan/Ijaye were as old as Oyo, Ketu & the formative period of early Yoruba states. Efa & Oje fall within this category & this makes them tens of centuries old. You must not know Egba owned all of the present day Ibadan & old Ijaiye.

At the time of Orangun’s wanderings, Offa had not be founded. Orangun was Olofin’s first son. While Orangun’s wanderings were on, Oranmiyan was still caught up with Oko & Bini. Offa was founded by an Oyo prince in the 14th/15th century long after Ila had been founded & well established.

Efa predates Offa & Efa in Bini. Why the need to connect dots, brother? There’s Efa in Cross River, Akwa Ibom, Ile-Ife & several other places across Naija. Do they all connect Efa & Oje as well? Fam, go read IB Akinyele’s book for Efa & Oje history, please.

Bro,I am not one of those that limit his knowledge on account that is shrewd. Beside, go get yourself,The Efa: Mysterious Aborigines of Edoland by Dmitri Bondarenko . There are connection among people of southern Nigeria etc ,even if I strongly believed from accounts that we were different stocks and migrated to this part at different times in human history and some fused while some refused to dislodge their ancestral history. Honestly I did read the book many years ago. But not as thoroughly as I have been seeing different researches done by others on history of different groups in Nigeria. And I will pick it up and do such again. Funny enough the years you pegged for Oyo,Ibadan etc aren't correct. Oyo was already established by people before Oranmiyan sojourn and established it properly. The date was around 11th century and not 15th century. My own ancestors left IFE back and forth around 13th century,so I am well knowledgeable about this . Secondly, Orangun ila was never Oranmiyan's contemporary at all because decades if not century(ies) between them. And Efa and Oje was beyond Akinyele's book because you seem to accept all things written by authors in the past when these people hardly traveled wide to verify people's historical accounts from the indigenous people of these locations . Facts are emerging due to research and people's voices are heard. Do you even know Ògbòn predated Oyo in some account? Ibadan is a ‘baby land' when it comes to foundation. There are Idoko in Yoruba land but not Yoruba from beginning but of Nupe ancestry from the deeper account. Efa could be connected to anywhere. After all, people migrate out of their abode for so many reasons that include war, greener pasture etc.

I intend not to over drag it out of context . So, I rest my case.


cheers