@ OrisaEsu, there is something about oriki idilè that had been patterned to connect each Yoruba person back to his or her root at ILE IFE. And it is a definition of where exactly such individual comes from in Yoruba land and perpetually leading one back to settlements in ILE IFE , originally were somehow known as sixteen but compressed by Odua and his loyalist during the clan fracas. One's root may not necessarily be the pivotal place to one's successfulness in life but identifying with such place will always be source of inspiration from where one can draw one's strength. There is something I will draw your attention to and it is the difference between the original Ogboni and the reform Ogboni. The ancient Ogboni from the Obatala's descendants were seen as a rebellious group by the Odua descendants. There is more though but let me infer here that at the tail end of 19th-early/ mid 20th century, the ILE IFE emigrants to other places fused together, through attestation of Oranmiyan sword symbol on each princes emigration, religious beliefs and intermarriages irrespective of the power tussle between Odua and Obatala descendants against invaders. This was how the reform Ogboni came into existence.
Ignorant ipob, keep that ignorance to yourself, there is no location in the SA and western hemisphere where they don't have and celebrate Yoruba culture...
There is no better way to showcase the evidence of Yoruba cultural celebration than you have proven the heavy presence, recognition and its existence in Southern and Northern America .
Two who left their beards in the uploaded photos can pass for aboriginal Australians. Phyno and Wole Soyinka. This mean that West African can pass for these colour Aboriginal Australians.
The Catastrophic mindsets in the house need desist from these detestable information and be more proactive in informing well researched details because information is POWER.
RedboneSmith: The two of you are really funny uninformed people. Wallahi. Gregyboy didn't know Madagascans are part-Indonesian (something that is common knowledge), and Olu posted pictures of long curly-haired darkies with very characteristically Australoid faces and said they look West African. Only the last guy playing the dridge looks West African in the picture. That is what is called an outlier, and they exist in all racial groups. The second to last guy wearing an earring has an ambiguous look too, but expert eyes can quickly pick out the aboriginal features of his face and categorise him accordingly.
If you had said the people of Papua New Guinea or the Andaman Islands look West African, it would have been a different matter. But Australian Aborigines? Everyone who has the least acquaintance with them knows they are a distinct racial group and have a distinct look.
Anyway, Olu is someone I have learnt not to take seriously; his brain may be touching a little bit. Just look at how he launched into a completely unrelated diatribe about Yoruba and Benin here --- Like how the fück is that even related to the topic at hand??
Why do you not take time to study before jumping into conclusion. Has OLU317 become a thorn in your flesh? Once you have been outwitted, you result to insult. Anyway,this is 21st century, I will look at your opinion and move on. However, I chose to respond to you because you mentioned my name on this post. Again and again, you blundered because apart from genetic factors many can be reasons , to hair's differential look. You need to grapple up with my type. And I wish you knew and well traveled within West Africa. In fact some Ibos, Yoruba, Fons, ,Hausa, Gambari, Kanuri, Kalabari (Calabar), Bambara , Dialonke, Dyula ,Malinke , Mandinka , Mende, Soninke, and Susu), Fulani (also called the Peul , nomadic cattle herders ), can have this look as factors of intermarriages. If you don't like it, just view it and move on instead of trying to curtail the truth.
What would have been the difference if chinua Achebe, Adewale Agbaje, Odunade Adekola, Chibuzor Nelson Azubuike(Phyno),Ibrahim Boubacar Keïta(Mali president) etc, if all of them left their beards?
Does this post look like Bini-Yoruba thread? Haaaa, Ignorance has no PART 2
gregyboy: I personally will accept my defeat in an argument quickly in other not to give my arguer a second thought of whats is right
And sheeples which he misguided today gave him likes sometimes i want to see who is behind those likes or if they hacked it.because some post that get much likes here on no baffles me
You will be misled if you follow likes on this section in NL because many of the likes are borne out of pride and not because of accurate or near accurate information but mere, hatred for the truth . You don't need to bother yourself because some people are more ignoramus than the ignorant.
You think people like to concede to defeat? It is only Yoruba that don't condone such because if a Yoruba does good and showed an Outstanding characteristics, we naturally will say “ That's omo Yoruba atata ." And when Yoruba person showed a callous and deceitful attitude, we also say, “ Yoruba ni yèn." Unlike some people that sees everything good about their own people and no single bad thing could come out of them. Let him not believe . The reality is that the truth is there to shut them. I am sure nearly all of them thought the statue of ori olokun being displayed everywhere as the symbol of so many things associated with south west and mid west in the the past came out from Bini. Ignorance is a disease. Sorry is their case!
OrisaEsu: 1. The excavation you posted will seriously rattle that man & bother him for the rest of the night
2. Facts, we can tell our history without latching on to any group.
There is no doubt about it. Even if we have issues within our Yoruba enclave, it is not their cup of tea. We open their eyes, exposed them to good things of life and because of Yoruba's shrewd secrecy, they want to take advantage of it. Sorry is their case!
jara: Thank you for taking the diligence to explain to those perpetrating novel theory of Bini, simply because they have to pay rent or lease land from Ogiso each time they are crowned in a new land they established. If they had done their research, they could have told Ogiamen that even Ogiso dynasty came from Ife.
The Yoruba Oba, son of Owomika or Eweka dynasty was a Yoruba himself. What an irony that a Yoruba, fluent in his Yoruba language wanted to be part of Ogiso so much, he questioned the lineage of the most respected Bini historian. Isn't that funny on his face?
The amount of evidence in history, archaeology, anthropology and common sense is enough to convince a dense brain. But for a long time, many historian laughed at this fraud of novel history from the fear of Ogiamen, that the lie would go away. But if you tell lies many times unchallenged, fool will start believing themselves. This matter should have been dismantled along time ago as it surfaced.
They are just ashamed now to accept reality. Now these ignoramus claim they have nothing in common with Yoruba. That is not the perpetrator from his book claimed, he claimed to be the father of Yoruba. If you claimed to be the father of your own great grandfather, does that mean you have nothing in common with Yoruba? A river that loses its source will dry up. Who even know about Ogiso until Oba came?
Again thanks for taking the time to spoon feed them.
That dude is going to ask you to provide proof of where it was dug and pictures of those who dug it.
Just watch
Let them rain curses, we are their father. This is the reason they tried so much to create a different identity, yet they couldn't do without Yoruba's oranmiyan. Either folklore or myth, at least an Ooni sculpture was dug out in the heart of Bini palace. Yoruba history can continue naming 1000 Yoruba relevant people without mentioning anyone, so proud, who claims or claimed representing Bini cum Edo's version. And they are the ones that ruled all southern Nigeria ,including Onitsa. Yet, Ijaws are right there at their backyard .What a pity!
Also, apart from the Europeans reaching Yoruba land. The Hausa/Fulani up there told the Europeans about Yoruba. You want proof, read.
If your proof is to show you the Europeans’ path, place & time of conversation then I am sorry for you.
You don't need to proof anything to Edos because facts are there as a foothold. Some of the sculptures are in England. The ‘Ori Olokun’ head was chosen as the logo for the All-Africa Games held in Lagos in 1973 and has been adopted as the logo of numerous commercial, educational and financial institutions. The images which has become universal symbols of African heritage. Below are pictures of Ooni done via sculpture. One of it was dug out of Bini Palace. The other one was Ooni lafogido's. I wonder if Bini was that relevant that even Portuguese Explorers didn't consider having his sculpture beimg casted via the method learned at ILE IFE ? Yet there are sculpture done in Bini to acknowledge the interaction with Bini kingdom
gregyboy: Dont be dogmatic not all Australians have blonde hair even our abinos have blonde hair with mutation or evolution if we west africans migrate to australisns we probably have that too.nevertheless am sorry if i narrowed madagascan to only chineese sorry my bad it should be asia as a continent if thake a good look at them you will see the third pics signifies a lighter Madagascar not only light skin but also the faces
You are correct to affirm to it that West African people could be compared as well with Aboriginal Australians. One of the greatest mistakes of researchers are the tendencies in quick submission on issues that are of diverse aboriginal people such as Australians case. Despite the fact that these people were oppressed ,researches have proven beyond any doubts about these set of people being the first occupants of Australia Below are pictures of Aboriginal Australians that look like some West Africans
Thank you for this info that I 'm just seeing on this thread. I read in one if the archival materials that Ado-Ekiti is derived from Edo and that Ado is the Yorubanised version of Edo. Read that Ado served as a Bini Empire military camp and the Bini used to come to Ikere and other parts of Ekiti and Ondo States on elephant hunting expeditions.
Do you agree with these "facts" above?
Thanks again and... Happy Holidays to you!
Not true but hype of the Bini kingdom by the Some Edos. Even in Ekiti, there are Bini's oranmiyan descendants that, despite their direct link through Oba of Bini lineage they hardly pronounce but to their Yoruba heritage, isn't surprising not acknowledging such kingdom if truthfully Bini was that Great?
You have been reading my mind... Sade has never denied her links to Nigeria.
Sade infact gave a condition in 2002 when she was interviewed by a Nigerian tabloid that she would love to perform in Nigeria but she wanted assurance about power supply. Things have probably improved a bit from 2002 with portable renewable sources of energy.
In 2002, Sade appeared on the Red Hot Organisation's Red Hot + Riot, a compilation CD recorded in tribute to the music of fellow Nigerian musician, Fela Kuti. She recorded a remix of her single "By Your Side" for the album and was billed as a co-producer. In that same year, she received an Order of the British Empire (OBE) from Prince Charles at Buckingham Palace for services to music, an award which she dedicated to all black women in England.
By Your Side [Cottonbelly's Fola Remix] originally performed by Sade Adu
D3–Sade By Your Side (Cottonbelly's Fola Mix Edit) 4:46Mins
Bass – Paul S. Denman Guitar, Woodwind, Programmed By – Stuart Matthewman Keyboards, Programmed By – Andrew Hale Producer, Arranged By – Sade Producer, Recorded By – Mike Pela Remix – Cottonbelly Vocals – Sade Adu Written-By – Hale*, Denman*, Adu*, Matthewman*
I think Lagos State can pull this off because Lagos has the money. I thought Lagos at 50 in 2017 would have been the perfect time to bring Sade Adu, and SEAL, an Eko boy who was born in London. The concerts involving Sade and Seal would be sold out! Sade will be 60 in 2019, she can even be brought before then.
Governor Ambode is very passionate about art and culture and Steve Ayorinde has been named the new Lagos State Commissioner For Tourism, Arts and Culture in a major cabinet reshuffle by Governor Akinwunmi Ambode about 6 days ago and Steve is a moving legend in the field of information, arts and culture.
There is no better time than the moment the living legends are alive. Hopefully, the governor of Lagos State and other lovers of music will do us all proud by bringing these solid ambassadors back home to play those songs we enjoyed in the past from both of them. Even a whole lot of them, including Tunde Baiyewu, Asa, Kelvin Olusola, Beautiful Nubia, Lagbaja, Femi Kuti Angelique kidjo. I am sure am not the only one craving to see these great ambassadors who have done Yoruba people great in the Music Industry internationally perform on the same stage.
The most interesting thing about your post is that they are:
1. Not based on any personal participation in ritual festivals;
2. Not based on any person comminucation with those directly linked to Oduduwa;
3. Based on hearsays;
4. Are based on internet sources.
What wars Orangun fought, we do not know except you want to tell us. And that would be Ila history not Ife history.
You, an Ekiti man, can not tell the History of Ile-Ife better than Ife people. We know who did what; whom he did it with; where they did it and who came from where.
Me,an Ekiti man? kikikiki you are a funny chap . oh k, I recall my mother was a descendant of one small kingly lineage and my father's....... FAR FROM IT. No,hatred for any Ekitiketes. Anyway, I am from a culturally cum traditionally endowed background. Internet crab, you claimed about what I know? I siddon look . This is a faceless forum and people can type what suit them but I know odua and his descendants history because he was a reference point in all ramification. I have given out the little I can share with you. Every Yoruba person know his or her root if indoctrinated properly, even if not, the pride of being Yoruba is always edible. I guess you need to dig my past posts and more in the past then you will have a clue about me .
Y0ruba: Susan P Blier is a Historian of repute who contributed her quota to Ife history using art. I do not know what you mean by she got me into this.
You just spoke again like you and Oduduwa were contemporaries or something. You and I do not know and can we guess his age when he usurped power. What every Ife person who is an Awo knows is that he was killed [but the story put out is that he died].
How else did you think Ogun, Oduduwa’s son lost the throne and was sent out of his palace [the new palace], banished from Ife that led to his wandering and Osangagan Obamakin was able to take the throne which exchanged hands till Obalufon Alayemore until Oranmiyan used force to reverse the whole process again?
Oduduwa did not bring Ebi system. Before Oduduwa usurped, every section of Ife was occupied by extensive family compounds and they had their own farms. Each section had a king, a Bale, an Odole and a L’ogun.
If you’re speaking of Ebi system among towns/crowns regarding themselves as brothers with Ife at the centre then you’re mistaken. Emigrant sons of Oduduwa only copied off of what was already on ground in Ife and applied it as a guiding philosophy to their inter-town relationships.
You apparently didn’t see my point. Using Awolowo for example, he was larger than life and was and still held in awe beyond human status.
Now back in the day if there was room for an Orisa with Awolowo’s qualities he would have been embedded into that Orisa and became a deity with followers [he still has a large following nonetheless].
If Yoruba had god of politics, Awolowo would have the name of that deity and stories about the two would become interwoven.
To further explain, see Ooni. The Ooni himself is not the 201st deity, it is the Are crown that is the 201st deity. The Ooni only becomes a deity when he puts this crown on and of course when he passes, larger than life tales to suit his Orisa status are put out.
The names of these deities back then are what we have now, Oduduwa, Oramfe, Esu, Ogun & so on. The spirit Oduduwa was the creator of earth - Iwa, the human Oduduwa was the creator of new political system in Ife; spirit Obatala was the human creator who lost position to Obatala, human Obatala lost his political position in Ife; Ogun was spirit associated with Iron and warfare, Ogun Oduduwa’s son was warlike & he got pegged to Ogun.
Now in Ife, Oduduwa, Ogun & Oranmiyan are classed the same because they were war-like & if Ogun had not been pegged to the Iron God, it would have been Oranmiyan because he had more exploits and it is he whom Oyo, Ibadan, Ekiti & other Yoruba towns send items to in Ife to be fed before they embark on any war, not Ogun. Aje is the spirit of wealth, the human Aje happened to have been the last market trader of her time to join the market but turned out to be the richest woman and over threw the first 7. Hence, she was pegged to the spirit of wealth.
We didn’t have a human deity of art. Guess who is our deity of art in Ife? Obalufon Alayemore who sponsored art in Ife heavily, especially brasswork. So you see my point now?
The list is endless but until people can initiate Orisa and see it as a followership of a human and not spirit then people will not understand what it is about because following Orisa is a subscription to how the human part of the Orisa lived - what he ate, wore, allies, taboos, chants etc. It is spiritual but not very spiritual also.
Lastly, not everything surrounds Oduduwa if you’re speaking of Ife’s geography. The person who re-adjusted everything to surround the palace was Obalufon & Oranmiyan consolidated it. The present palace was not Oduduwa’s palace, it was Ogun’s abode. Oduduwa’s palace is in Idio and definitely not in the center.
People seat wherever and device stories of their relationship with Oduduwa meanwhile the man was away in his palace chilling not doing much.
In fact during the wars, he was badly beaten and sent out of town. This was what brought Obameri & Baba Sigidi in. Obameri especially took it personal and did all the fighting while Oduduwa was brought back to chill in the palace; the defeat affected how much of his presence was seen.
To safeguard the man, Obameri left his section of Odin to mount road blocks against the opposing faction in order to ensure they are kept out of town proper.
The man, Oduduwa didn’t do much, he lost his first attempt but was made the head of a coup. He also had to rely heavily on his men to ensure his centralized monarchy was sustained till the other faction took him out and took the throne back.
People paint a larger than life picture around him and start creating stories about their connections with him. If Idio does not sanction any connection/exploits of other people with Oduduwa then I do not believe it. Idio are the custodian of everything Oduduwa did and left behind. In fact the ruling house is pretty much disconnected from Oduduwa even though they descended from him and they have to rely on Idio for anything Oduduwa & to sanction any connections with him from outside Ife.
Cheers.
Hmmmm, quite intriguing with this your claim that isn't true.Who were the Awos inferring on this bogus lie about Odua, Ogun? It seems you left out Orangun ILE ILA out of this, who was a very dreaded warrior during this period. Quite an imagination. Have you forgotten Owa Obokun went to fetch water at the seashore? Where did you notice even in the cosmopolitan ILE IFE, whose personality could be more organisational trendy during Adimunia's period? You think those that followed didn't realise, how divinely and spiritually sound he was? . Kindly list the settlement that existed and their lineage before odua emerged. As well as the Ebi system you claimed Odua sons and daughters copied. You claimed again about a setting at ILE IFE, when in fact Odua reorganize and streamlined the whole settlement. Do you want me. to name them? You even claim Ogun was war freak when in fact, it was all about defending his territory. You are truly hilarious. This is the reason too many rumours and lies can destroy so many things. Now, get it dear, Ogun went out of ILE IFE to prosecute war and lived in an area near present day Shaki because he wasn't too keen about being an Ooni. Kindly save this gist of yours as Obamakin Osangangan used that opportunity to be Ooni before Alayemore came on board and the eventual Return Of Orannmiyan. I can sense in your assertion that is quite different and comparing Odua to Awolowo. You practically don't know much dear.
You can visit destee. com and see what Awo dino tried to do to justify the relevance of Ori and creation through Yoruba Eledumare. And I want you post your own version that is well known about the creation myth of Yoruba via Orunmiela.
Is this Genesis chapter 1? Whoever wrote that book bit off the bible extensively. The attachments had me like, What?!
Good for you in your family. This means you're an Ogberi and should not speak on what you do not have a direct experience with.
Also, I did not say I wanted to initiate you with PL, WTH? I said if you are an Awo we shoulg use PMs to identify each other regardless of what Awo you might be, be it Orisa, Ifa or Ogboni.
An Ogbèri? You are funny! OK oh. It seems you still don't get it. Do I have to claim an initiate before you understand? Anyway, dear I won't go too deep with it. Categorically , I can't be an Ogboni! Do you know why? Let me infer, unless I am a king but I can't be a king, probably my descendants because I am not destined for such position. I will not discredit or refer too much about the real Ogboni sect because omo ódó Agba ni mi. I am sure you know a lot about Odua and oranmiyan tradition with your claim, Perhaps, you know the Orisa associated with their tradition.
I can place a bet of whatever to prove you’ve never been to Ile-Ife before and your tales are of your imaginations but that is your choice anyway.
As I said, I will not be speaking further on that. If you are that curious to know, go to Idio compound to find out what happened to the man.
How did you know he lived a long time to see his grand children? You almost said that like you both were contemporaries.
Oduduwa did not come wirh Irunmole’s worship. Ife already had deities for every natural phenomenon. Great men of yore were deified and pegged to each Irunmole. Something like how Sango the Alaafin passed and was pegged to Jakuta the actual god of thunder. All the Orisa, including Oduduwa already existed in Ife before all the greatmen later associated with them. This provided the duality in Yoruba system where each deity has a human history and a spiritual side. The spiritual tale to a deity is the tale woven around the deity before the human deified with it. Apparently, you’re not into these things but a fan from the sidelines developing his own narratives.
Ile-Ife had no King indeed but the Agba Ife system had periodic heads. Oduduwa usurped this using violence and was killed in the long haul. Oduduwa himself was not ‘king’ in the real sense, he shared power with Obatala accounting for why there were two palaces, Idio and Idita at opposite ends facing each other. True kingship system did not begin in Ile-Ife until Obalufon Alayemore who developee the art and state system. I am sure you didn’t know this too because you’ve never been to Ife but continue to conduct your arm chair analysis.
Uncle, the problem with your knowledge is that it is based on your own imagination and hearsay. You have never been to Ife, this is evident from things you’ve been posting on Ife thus far, yet you keep pushing unfounded narratives. Only 8 out of Oduduwa's children moved out, the rest were grand children. A good number of his children stayed back in Ife, some residing in their mother’s quarters or founded theirs within Ife. So no, they are not always away. Not many of them were away anyways.
Either you take or leave it. Eluyemi, awo ogboni rere, like many Ife people was privy to Oke Ora being regarded as Oduduwa’s abode. It is the first place every Ooni elect goes to, thus making it a sacred ground no one ventures to but Eluyemi was granted the opportunity to excavate it and he made a number of discoveries there.
Alayemore reigned during Ife’s peak? I swear your post cracked me up o. I thought you were someone with the slightest knowledge of Ife. I didn’t realize you loved fantasies and imaginations beyond anything else.
Cheers bro, I am done with the back and forth with you.
Like I have said , you are funny. May be, Susan blair got you into this but didn't change anything about Adimunia. He was a king and did his best. Do you know how many years Odua lived to acquire Ifa's knowledge? I am sure know you. Do you know how many years it took Orangun ILA to be born by Adimunia? Do you know the account of Oore Ekiti's relationship with Odua? In fact, you are the first that didn't know this account because you claimed he died young and was killed. He compressed the whole hut cum settlements and brought forth Ebi system. If it was a lie, how come everything was surrounded around Odua? Perhaps, you are an Obatala descendants? No, offence though because Odua still stretched arms of friendship and recognition towards Obatala . Well, this forum isnt meant to be used as a platform by me to create enmity because we are builders and not destroyers of the entirety of Yoruba history, tradition and human relationships. Dear , forget that part of Odua being killed which you claimed were known to Awos . Anyway, Odua is always a selling Point to the users of his name for their benefit and respect . You claimed there were established deities before Irunmolè worship but you didn't name them. And I would have asked you the significance of Ram to Oranmiyan's ancestors but let me leave it as it is.
Bro, you tried anyway but you are far from it.
N. B: I truly thank God for an avenue as this because the whole world in search of Yoruba history will find certain information on this forum useful because personal experience and hidden info are being let loose.
Y0ruba: Apparently, you are an outsider trying to describe what awos do from your monotheist perspective. If you’re an awo [Orisa, Ifa & Ogboni] maybe we should kick it in the PM and we can identify each other properly?
I won’t bother to stretch this but Olodumare has no connection or communication with humans. He is just there but inactive.
Obatala is the foremost deity not because of anything else but for being in possession of Ase to which other deities go to him for.
Esu is the one who grants requests good or bad not because he is an errand boy but because he has unfettered access to Ase.
Olodumare him/herself self does not want to be worshipped this is why there’s no shrine, ebo or etutu for him/her.
This is why s/he wants the Yoruba to focus on their Ori, Iya, Baba, Ikik & any deity.
Yoruba is polytheist. You’re Yoruba yes but your not being an Awo is obvious and you should not speak on what you do not know.
You seem not to get it, right? I delve into to issue that I have knowledge on and you seem not to get it. Well, I am never never an outsider to Odua or oranmiyan. È mi omo arugbo ilè. È mi omo kaare O'ba Mi. I am not as hidden as it seems because I am a normal man, who lives like every other humble true Yoruba descendants. However, there is a difference between what seer says and who you are. In all of these, I hope you understand. Furthermore, initiation as an Awo has nothing to do with how spiritual gifted you but a lee way of indoctrination into knowledge of the past and how to connect to Eledumare through the deities. If Olorun isn't concerned with with humans, what does Éleda is to Yorubas? Knowledge isn't different from wisdom and wisdom and when wisdom become properly use, it becomes understanding! Pm me to initiate me? Smiling. Can one be initiated twice into IFA's knowledge? Anyway, In my family, you are not initiated into the needed cults except you are a king. On the power of Eledumare, I hope you know there is IFA holy book. . Of course yes, Èledumare interfered in the affairs of humans. Here are two pieces attached
Y0ruba: I am not quite sure in what context you’ve used the term ‘pagan’ but it caught my interest.
Pagans were originally those who practised ancient greek polytheistic belief system.
With Christianity and Islam in place, a pagan is now any person who practices any belief system outside these two.
So, contrary to what you wrote, Yoruba have been polytheistic since time immemorial. Outside of an Olodumare who is inactive and uninterested in human affairs, Yoruba’s worship splits in fives places - Ori eni as number one followed by, Ori Iya eni, Ori Baba eni, Ikin eni and Irunmole [Orisa eni]. These are the 5 ‘deities’ the Yoruba worship fervently which makes them polytheistic from time immemorial.
The ones you listed are for individual connection to Eleda. You need to read the console of Yoruba beliefs. Yes, pagan, categorically is referred to as unbeliever. And what you referred to also was because you don't know that Yoruba worship God and not the way it was painted as some Yoruba authors, have characterized Yoruba Eledumare. You have to dig deeper than what you have been reading. You quite got it wrong like some others do. No prayer can be sanctioned by any deity unless Eledumare place Asé on it. How would you now define such God known as the agelss lord God who doesn't care? Even the head of Onifas known as ARABA will tell you after a sacrifices has been prescribed that “Eledumare, a jé ki o ju é sè"(God will let it come to pass) . That's the almighty God of the Yorubas. I blame many Yoruba authors who had erroneously blundered either directly or indirectly and belittle Eledumare because, during the olden days few people were lettered in English but today, correction to the anomaly is gradually taking place. I said this because what those onifas/Babalawo meant was misunderstood because their point was to exalt the position of God beyond imagination but got on the wrong side on the medulla oblongata of the authors. Mind you, Eledumare is all supreme God /Towering God,in a literary translation which is not appropriate enough to explain the awesome of Yoruba almighty God.
Y0ruba: I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.
Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.
To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.
Some of these families are;
- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];
- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.
- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.
There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.
It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.
He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.
To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.
1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.
2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.
3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.
4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.
5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.
6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.
So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.
Cheers.
You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Before Oranmiyan , few ooni had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within Nigeria's territory. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten the Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder of Oke Igbo?Don't know that most of the descendants of Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Lastly, there was particular place that you can point to as you claimed. Professor Eluyemi did not proof anything about the original place of Adimunia /Adimulia Origin.
Y0ruba: I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.
Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.
To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.
Some of these families are;
- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];
- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.
- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.
There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.
It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.
He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.
To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.
1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.
2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.
3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.
4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.
5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.
6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.
So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.
Cheers.
You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Anyway, Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. And one of his greatest descendant was Odédè known also as oranyan who reigned but before his reign , few oonis had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within West Africa territory in ancient times. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua was the one that came with Irunmole worship. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder/Baale of Oke Igbo?Don't you know that most of the descendants of Odua and Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Likewise all other family members of Odua and they have accounts of their ancestor. Do you not know that Odua was the one that brought forth the needed method of identification of people's lineage through Ebi system ? Lastly, there was no particular place at the present day ILE IFE that professor Eluyemi pointed out at as the place of birth of Odua. And they were only able to identify settlements. You mentioned sculpture as not a pivotal to knowing odua? I am sure you had knowledge of ILE IFE prowess and wealth? it was only the peak period that Alayemore reigned. And this didn't mean Odua's period wasn't a good one because part of odu ifa corpus mentioned that Yoruba wore clothes. If you don't know ,you need to explore more on this and don't get too attached to fairy tale books.
Y0ruba: When exactly was this lately and please mention the scholars that have agreed to this claim, LOL.
Sir you are somewhat late to the scene o if you’re a Historian or an Archeologist that is. Frank Willet’s findings [after Frobenius’] already put this your hypothesis to rest.
Ife is regarded in History and Archeology as one of the few settlements that has remained on its original site since its inception. Ife has never ever moved from its original site.
The only time Ife moved was when they headed to Isoya [Ife farms along Ondo Road] as at the time Modakeke sacked their town during the Yoruba internecine wars but the Ife people were brought back and begged to settle in their town by Bashorun Ogunmola [or Ibikunle, can’t remember which specifically right now but see Samuel Johnson’s A History of the Yorubas from the Earlest times].
The second other time they appeared to have moved was during of one the Modakeke wars but it was more of a dispersal further into extensions of Ife quarters.
See what Robert Smith had to say in his Kingdoms of Yoruba work.
Well,well,let be behave as a student of history to learn from your knowledge. However, ILE IFE has been moved different times. Even professor Obayemi agreed and researched it. ILE IFE begged who? You are indeed funny, reading Samuel Johnson sensational book that defaulted in many ways.The same book that couldn't Identify what Ooni mean? . Anyway, ILE IFE didn't beg but sons of Ooni returned and fought their way back and chase modakeke . Have you forgotten that Ibadan was the engine room that did that and they paid dearly for it. My own great grand father fought along side with his siblings and loyalists for it.
Y0ruba: Speculations borne out of ignorance on Ife history reeks everywhere on the pages of this thread. This is not a big deal, seasoned Historians have, since Frobenius brought Ife into limelight, struggled to dig into the history of Ife early state.
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Yoruba people, specifically the people of Ife are an ancient pre-literate society who did not keep records [important or otherwise] in writing but explored other methods bothering on the memory hinged upon spatial, politics, economic and social.
Oduduwa is the widely acclaimed father of Yoruba monarchy and his existence and position in the Yoruba world has been expressed through several theoretical angles which include the descent from the sky theory and migration theory.
Both theories need to be assessed in bits in order to conclude upon their veracity or need to be scrapped:
The sky theory is religious in nature. Ife the seat of Oduduwa is the sacred city of the Yoruba and a religious center where every compound claim descent from a deity contained in the pantheon of 201 gods [201 on earth, 200 in heaven equally 401 in total sum], these deities in Ife are revered and held in awe so much that the historical records surrounded them are enmeshed in spiritual myth in order to protect an unfavourble historical event, keep sacred spaces in secret, preserve ritual activities and retain the prestige associated with the deity to mention a few. Every deity in Ife enjoys [or suffers from] this phenomenon of mythical tales but they have come to gather so much traction in that the actual history is slowly being forgotten. Oduduwa is not exempt from this situation and this is where the sky descent comes from.
Migration theory of Oduduwa coming from the ‘East’ is very curious. Not to take away from the Yoruba as a whole but at what point did Yoruba people as a whole define the cardinal points of ‘North, South, East and West’ to have come up with Oduduwa coming from the East theory? Research shows that the Arabia/Mecca theory began with Sultan Bello who, in his conversation with Clapperton referred to the Oyo people of Katunga which they [the Pulloh/Hausa] referred to as Yarba and regarded as their co-migrant from Mecca.
Fast forward to the 18th century when the returnee slaves, explorers and missionaries began to flock Yoruba land, they figured the peoples were the same but with no collective nomenclature, they decided to borrow the Oyo name of Yoruba as well as Nago and Aku to refer to the nation as one unit.
Overtime the entire group became referred to as Yoruba and this is where the Samuel Johnson the Historian whose work is a seminal one recounted the Mecca theory but applied Yoruba anachronistically as used in his work. This gave birth to the rise in the popularity of the Mecca theory which Sultan Bello, the Pulloh king, narrated about Yoruba [the Oyo] and later became a national story due to the later encompassing cognomen Yoruba/Yoruba effected my migrants. His application of ‘Yoruba’ in his work also created the position of Alaafin & Ooni’s in Yoruba monarchy debacle; he referred to everyone as Yoruba and the Alaafin at the time wrote a letter to the colonialists referring to himself as the ‘King of Yoruba’ [an idea which the colonialists worked with when they set up government proper until they began to effect corrections during Ooni Aderemi’s time] to Had Samuel Johnson defined or provided a contextual analysis of the Yoruba nomenclature, the monarchy hierachy problem that rages on today would not have reared its head.
Of course, the recent decade witnessed the postulation of the Bini theory of Ekahledaherb/Izoduwa solely based on ignorance of the the Mecca migration, Yoruba/Yoruba etymology as well as ignorance of thr etymology and meaning of the word Oduduwa. The proponents latched on to their [Bini] position being to the East of Ife like many other towns and further explored the impossibility of sky descent as well as the flaw in the Mecca angle, a theory to which many Yoruba have been grappling to give a response to.
To find the background and history of Oduduwa, one has to refer to the methods employed by the pre-literate Yoruba society in recording history as mentioned in the first paragraph. This includes festivals, a periodic event that is not of fun-fair to the people of Ife but a period of the re-enactment of actual historical event. Within these festivals abound the processions identifying sacred spatial spots; in these festivals abound chants/songs narrating events; within these festivals abound re-enactment of physical activities of importance that happened in the past.
Thus, for information on Oduduwa, the coronation of the Ooni is vital, the compounds that were/are known to have been loyal to him or played important role for him in his days such as Idio clan; and finally, the compounds of the group that antagonized his rise and enthronement. All of these groups/compounds have festivals revolving around Oduduea and they require to be studied for a narrative to be developed from each and strung together in a chronological order.
The Yoruba had a pattern of recording historical account despite its challenges.
1.Oral account 2. Ébi system 3. Right to rule through divine means 4. Sculpture 5. Importance of Ram as sacrifices to Odua 6. His form of worshiping God that included using of pigeon /white cork /doves
These six reason has revealed the identity of who Odua was and didn't descended from anywhere in the present day Nigeria.
Y0ruba: Egharevba’s A short History of Benin is the only thorough account of Bini owing to the access of the informant’s used in the work to the true nature and oral tradition of the ealier centuries. Egharevba collected his data from the generation that was very much connected to the primordial times and their informations were very much straight to the point because they had no agenda influenced by the politics and economics brought about Nigerian state and as well as the boundary problems attendant to it.
Most Bini works that followed this, especially the one by their king, is nothing but a paper driven by irredentism and chauvinism that began with the nationalistic urge to create Mid-Western region out of Western region when a harmless speech was given at a congress where Ooni and some Yoruba obas were recognized and the Oba Bini wasn’t.
A whole lot of Bini people have latched on to this nationalistic feeling driven by chauvinism and when Egharevba’s work is referenced they brush it to the side claiming Egharevba’s mother was Yoruba, hence he was not only influenced to be subjective by that, it also influenced the light under which he painted the Yoruba. An attempt to throw the man’s seminal work into dustbin.
Interestingly, Egharevba was at no time connected with Yoruba by blood. He had migrant relatives who dotted few places in Yoruba land & other area - this is normal for everyone, he was at no time Yoruba.
See the screen shot attached below & please consider saving it for future use in the case they come with the ‘His mother was Yoruba’ narratives.
Thanks for this info. Eledumare will add more to your understanding
Christistruth00: This was hundreds of years before Islam reached present day Nigeria,they were all pagans back then.
Odua and his people were not pagan. If you don't know much about Yoruba history, then forget it or learn from those who have knowledge of Yoruba people's history, even with evidence. If you don't know Yoruba had a supreme lord known as Èlèdumare, Olorun,Éléda and owner of life and creator of the first word spoken (ọ̀rọ̀) known as Ela,countless years ago then you need to pick up books to read more about Yoruba history and cosmology. From the period the people known today existed, they had knowledge of God. And nearly all the deities today were humans that were Yoruba people and lived before their death and transformation to the status of deity.So, Yoruba were not pagan from time immemorial. Even, when the Greeks thought Zeus was the one that suspended the earth on his arm, Yoruba had known the Eledumare, who can't be compared to any and can't die but ageless, according to some corpus in Odu Ifa.
Christistruth00: According to ancient history Oduduwa did not travel from the east alone he came with the ancestors of the Kanuri"s of Borno state ,and with the ancestors of the Gobir Hausa who were reputed to be his brothers and also the ancestors of the Bariba tribe. The Kanuri have an Oral history which confirms this relationship with Oduduwa the father of the Yoruba.
Yeah ,I read something close to that but I don't agree on the part that Odua was a brother to those you mentioned. Perhaps, his greatness was heard and many theories begun by different scholars. The reason I said this was because, Yoruba had a system that's different and tradition or beliefs without Islamic influence that were alien to these other groups. Upbringing of children—to freedom to aspire to be be the greatest was well enshrined in Yoruba beliefs, Yoruba had more Twins etc. Again, Take for instance, Ba —Abba—UBa mean father, this word is alien to all groups except Yoruba enclave only. The method of connecting and praying to God by oneself, which is embedded in Éri(Ori) ,which mean head is different from others .Secondly, Odua,his ancestors knew a God called El—edumare and the method of worshiping El—edumare was done in an open place, although away from prying eyes, while in this place, a circle is made with Éfun(Chalk-potash) and every other things are put in place to pray to God. Thirdly, the Yoruba were developed scientifically before arrival at this part of the world because, the Beads made by Yorubas were more advanced than the Caucasians—Europeans as far back as over 1,000 years ago etc and no West African had similarity with the production of this beads. Again, Yoruba fabric known as Aso Okè—Ofi etc were different from all sub Sahara fabrics yet there were other fabric before Yoruba emergence but this fabric emerged out of nowhere through Yoruba and were different .If truly, outside intermarriages,The Yoruba or Odua and his group were related to the Hausas, Kanuri, Fulani, Igala, Nupe etc, the development would have been at par or closely related either via religious beliefs or otherwise but am yet to actually pin such down . This doesn't mean that humanity as a whole didn't descended via same link but the fact is that at a point in time , evolution through human development made all differ. This is the reason, there are different development in different places but to achieve same goal as a force to be reckon with. However, if you have evidence to proof the connection, I shall be delighted reading it.
Yoruba tradition identify Kehinde as older because the Yoruba belief and tradition states that Kehinde instruct Taiye to come and taste the world and see if it is worth it. So, from this concept ,the later child known as Kehinde is the instructor and the older one/child.This is the reason, Kehinde is referred as akehinde gba égbon i.e The one that came out last that became or accepted as the first child.
All this The great oba of Benin said in front of your useless ooni of Ife
Inferiority complex is strong in you that you had to result to cheap lies
Hahaha come on get out , you have been disgraced again
Odua had children and grandchildren who lived under him when he reigned as Ooni. Yet not one of them knew about Ogiso? Did Eweka even knew how his father looked? No. Did Eweka's mother knew the character of Oranmiyan and ancestors lineage? No, because Eweka was barely a year old when Oranmiyan left Bini. And his Concubine who was Eweka's mother was given to him as he was the first Oba of Bini? Someone who Ogiemie family always accused as a foreigner from ILE IFE is now an Ogiso lineage? Despite the fact that Bini history is full of distortion as regards Oranmiyan and his ancestors, the Oba Bini had no choice but to affirm to it and mentioned Oranmiyan as the first Oba in Bini and referred to himself as the 40th Oba . What a storyline?
Oba Ewuare II's quote :“The Oba in his coronation speech was reported, by the Punch newspaper (in an article titled “Oba of Benin gets staff of office, unfolds development agenda”), to have stated: “I therefore stand before you as the 40th Oba of Benin, a direct descendant of Oranmiyan, the son of Oduduwa."
OGIAMIEN : "The Ekokpagha treaty clearly defined the status of Ogiamien as aborigine and permanent landlord while the Oba of Benin kingdom as a permanent tenant," High Chief Monday Wehere, director of information and external affairs of the Ogiamien family said on Tuesday. Giving details of how the treaty came into existence, the family said Erebo was the king of Igodomigodo, now known as Benin, when Oramiyan from Ile-Ife, a Yoruba town, came to invade and forcefully took occupation of a certain portion of the kingdom. "The Ogiamien is the custodian of the 32 previous Ogisos that had ruled Igodomigodo and the aborigine Binis for over 300 years before the forceful introduction of obaship against the decision of the aborigine Binis while the Oba of Benin (the family) are descendants of the sixth Ooni of Ife, Oba Oramiyan, the son of Okanbi. "Therefore, it would be difficult for Ogiamien to pledge allegiance to an invader - Oba of Benin - who is also a tenant," the family added.
Continue in your opinion ,which isn't true as you have claimed there are no Yoruba settlement in Akoko Edo yet names are there for people to see.
Truth is bitter but a choice you have not. So swallow it as bitter as it is.
Culture › Re: Obatala And Oduduwa In Ile-ife by Olu317(m): 9:45am On Jan 19, 2018
