johnydon22:
I remember of a quote that says "Hurt me with the truth, never comfort me with a lie" so is it rational to always lie to ourselves just to derive comfort...

[even though i don't find death any bad as people who fear it does- lets leave it for now]



So what ever makes us feel good is rational to concieve even though it is a lie?

Depends on if the negative consequences of believing a lie are greater than the benefits. In any case, life after death cannot be disproven so I don't think that it can be considered necessarily a lie. I would absolutely argue that believing a lie can be better in some cases than dealing with the truth. Someone in a very fragile mental state, for example, might not be told the truth about something because the consequences would be extremely negative for that person.

johnydon22:


Ok you are basically saying: if it makes you feel all warm and cozy and provides a means for you to escape the cold dread of death [if you see death like so] then it is rational to concieve such thoughts for comfort?

I think the topic is based on if such ideas are objectively true [but since it is unprovable and uncertain therefore within the confines of belief] is it rational to hold such belief?

Well one could say that there is 'internally rational' and 'externally rational'. I'd argue that believing in life after death is 'internally rational' because it reduces anxiety; however it lacks 'external rationality'. I've borrowed this from the scientific principles of internal and external validity.

An analogy to make my point: a crazy person takes off all their clothes and walks in the street naked. We've all seen this before. It is not rational to the people around him because social codes do not permit nudity and he brings shame upon himself, therefore it is externally irrational. However, when asked why he is naked, he says that his clothing burns his skin and therefore he cannot wear them. This is internally rational because this would be proper behavior to the individual doing the act because it is what you should do if you are in contact with something that burns.

This is what I mean. Believing in an afterlife with zero proof may seem irrational to the skeptic, but if it reduces stress for the individual then it is rational.

I am atheist, however I concede that it could be considered rational to believe in an afterlife IF it reduces your stress level and makes you feel better. However if this belief causes you to engage in behavior harmful to yourself then it is not rational.

winner01:
So will you start preaching to people about the flying sphaghetti monster as from today?

No, I don't lie well enough to be a preacher.

petra1:
Samples of the blood should be taken for DNA test

Or tested for food colouring.

[quote author=mdokaba1 post=48274607][/quote]

I do have a Christian name, that is true.

shadeyinka:


How LOGICAL is this statement.



My Bro. Admit the fact that their is a flaw in the complete materialistic view of Atheists regarding existence. If you are wrong in this, you may be wrong in other views regarding the non physical exixtence and spirituality.

I do not see the flaw in what I wrote. Damaging the brain can have profound consequences for people's personality; this has been observed. Damage the frontal lobe and the person becomes someone else.

shadeyinka:


I am not sure I understand you. If I get it correctly, you are saying:

Defects/Malfunctions in the CPU has proved that the controlling force of a computer is the CPU and not the Operating system.

Youbcan see that your conclusion is flawed.

The Soul is the Operating System of the Brain.

I disagree. The soul is the output of the brain's construction. Alter the construction and the soul changes. At least, that is how I see it.

shadeyinka:


Another vocabulary I am learning today. The first was Deist and now I am learning about Monist. LOL...justifying Atheism is a complex affair!


Seriously, If I get you right can we say that Atheists believe that the soul is the Brain or a product of the Brain?

Yes, and observations of brain injuries and the resulting personality changes would be cited as evidence of that.

I have the same problem: people assume I am Christian when I am atheist. If I don't feel like creating a problem then I just smile and go along. If I am in a more combative mood then I tell them straight away I am atheist.

Atheists are monists; that is, we generally believe that the mind is a product of the body, and that death of the body is also death of the 'soul'. However I'd guess that most atheists would say that they cannot prove this.

exco90:
Finally,the answer to the ultimate question on who created God has been answered...but to get the answer to the ultimate question,you have to perform the ultimate task because nothing good in life comes easily....whoever is willing to perform the tasK will surely see clearly the answer to the ultimate question...if after the task I fail to provide the ultimate answer then I assure you that I'll join those who call themselves atheist..let me Know when you're ready for the ultimate task.... *NOW THE ULTIMATE TASK* Kindly taKe a stroll through the shores of the atlantic ocean,looK for a perfect spot on the banK of the ocean,use your shovel to dig a 6ft hole and then get a tea spoon..use this tea spoon to empty the ocean into the hole and when the ocean is empty,come bacK and get the ultimate answer..failure to perform this tasK means you're not ready for the ultimate answer..

You seem to be confirming that atheism is a valid point of view since no one can do the task you ask, therefore you are saying that there is no answer.

Contact17:


The verses in the Qur'an are clear. There does not need to be any twisting or "torturing of verses" to prove anything. It has been the same since over 1400 years ago since it was revealed to an man who was unable to read or write. Well-known and famous scientists themselves have commented on the science of the Qur'an and proclaimed its' authenticity. For example the origin of the universe. Scientist agree that at some point everything existed a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This was recorded in the Qur’an

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

The amusing thing about this appears in the verse prior: "And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask. Then He turned to the heaven"

So Allah is saying that the earth was created BEFORE the heavens, which is in direct contradiction to the accepted theory that the universe is older than the earth. This is a scientific error in the Quran. The Quran then goes on to say that the stars are protection--against what and how?

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other.

God has said in the Quran:

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...

There are also many other verses in the Quran and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad that not only talks about science but mention future events which later came to pass. Some of them are still to come to pass- for example the rising of the sun from the west. Scientist have discovered the possiblity of the sun rising from the west due to switiching of magnetic poles.
This was reported 1400 years ago by the prophet (peace and blesssing be upon him) who said: “The Hour will not begin until the sun rises from its place of setting. When it rises from its place of setting, all people will believe, but on that day ‘no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before,’ [al-An’aam 6:158].”

Lastly, science is unreliable. New theories and ideas are always being created. Before people were praised for saying the earth is flat but now people are criticized for saying the exact same thing. Whilst science is always changing, the Qur'an will never change. It will always remain one and the same, conveying the truth at all times.

Sorry, the Quran has many scientific errors. If you claim that science isn't always correct, I agree; but to say that the Quran is always correct, I completely disagree because I see the errors plainly. I have read the entire Quran and I am satisfied that it is man made.

Muhammad may have been illiterate (there is a hadith implies that he could write), but he was not stupid, and he had traveled quite a bit and talked with a lot of people in his life, including educated people from Rome and Persia, so that by the time he was 40 he had quite a bit of some of the accepted scientific knowledge of the day, even if some if it turned out to be wrong (Galen's theory of embryology for example).

lexiconkabir:


Quote where Allaah said MOST of the Quran is not precise.....only then can you make that assertion for Allaah said only HE The most Gracious knows the meaning of the unspecific verses.

Actually the author of the Quran says that only Allah knows its true meaning, therefore all of it, however it says that some verses are clear, but does not say which ones. So I guess we are left to guess whatever is meant by it and what proportion is unclear.

Interestingly, the tafsir Ibn Kathir says that scholars cannot agree over whether or not the verse should read "And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge..." or if it should be read "And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge..."

So maybe 3:7 itself is one of those unclear verses that people should not try to explain. Very convoluted and confusing.

You live in conplications? Do you find it hard to get fresh air? Is it always hot throughout the year? A quick question – you sound llke you subscribe to the evolution theory, do you?

Humans cannot live anywhere on earth, such as at the polar regions or under the oceans (yet). I absolutely subscribe to the theory of evolution as being the only current valid explanation for the diversity of species.

Contact17:


First of all it wasn't written. It was revealed by God. There are many things that make the Qur'an stand out and one of them is it's sciences. The Qur'an which was revealed 14000 years ago contains many scientific knowledge which was just discovered in recent times.

The little 'science' that is in the Quran comes from torturing the verses until they appear to say what you want them to. This is the same with any other religious text. I've read the Quran and looked at the claims made about science, and have seen more errors than true facts. We don't need to go over them again, I'm comfortable in rejecting these claims.

lexiconkabir:


Which is more? The precise or the unspecific verses? Because i am curious to know how you concluded that muslims don't understand much of the Quran, cuz thats what the underlined is implying...

I'm simply quoting the Quran, which says that only Allah understands its true meaning. This necessarily means that no one else does, including Muslims.

So in your quest of looking for your own meanings, have you been able to know why everything in our universe are positioned the way they are? Why only earth is the only planet where HUMAN can live without complications?

I think that physics and chemistry can explain this quite well. In any case, humans do not live here without complications, life was actually quite difficult until modern scientists figured out ways to improve our survival. And there are still lots of complications. And in terms of evolution, humans evolved in response to the environment which explains why we exist in the form that we do and why we survive on earth.

masseratti:
Am not an atheist, but The koran was revealed or handed down to Mohammed? or was it written down by the third caliph?

I apply Occam's razor to this. Books are written by people, this is provable and knowable. I have never seen a book from a source other than people. Therefore I presume that all books are written by people. The Quran is no exception; there is nothing unusual about it as a book.

lexiconkabir:


Actually here is the full verse


"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."

As you can see from what i underlined, the foundation of the Quran are the precise verses, not the unspecific ones, if you can understand the precise ones, you are good to go, so as Muslims we believe in all, both precise and unspecific as you can see at the end of the verse, infact we can use the precise ones to explain the unspecific ones.

But the sentence still stands that only Allah understands much (all) of the Quran. Which means that a lot of it is useless to people and would only serve to cause division. Notice that Allah does not conveniently specify exactly which verses are clear and which ones are not.

So you believe we are in this life by accident? No purpose?

I am an existentialist, so I find my own meaning. But there is no inherent purpose to life that I have been able to determine through empirical testing.

In 3:7 we read:
(Quran 3:7) He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who have perversity in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning.

The next sentence in that same verse is also important: "And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah."

Well then it's useless to even argue because no one, not even Muhammad, knows its true interpretation. So everyone is free to interpret as they see fit, including me, a non-believer.

Life is like a multiple choice exam. If you pick the wrong choices throughout the exam, you will be punished. If you pick the right choices throughout the exam, you will be rewarded! The exam is going to be very difficult and it will have many tricks in it to test you. If the Quran or the universe were presented with clear, 100% proof of certainty in God's existence, then everyone believes in the Quran and in God.

But the whole test is pointless. He has no need to test anyone, he is god after all and can do whatever he wants. Testing us seems like a silly game for someone who has no need for it. And if we fail we don't just get punished, we get our skin roasted off. Allah is worse than Hitler or Stalin.

The whole thing sounds like a scam to me.

Vicoch:



he he he HardMirror, JackBizzle, Cloudgoddess, hahn, seun, onetrack, valentinemary coman see lie...

He should go to a major western medical center and show that he can make a hand regrow over there.

winner01:
Stare at the picture below for 10 minutes maybe it would sink.

Share your belief in God or Higher powers


How is this not pro-religion?.

Since you dismiss all gods, why then are you here. To share your unbelief?

Are you sure you arnt depressed? or do you just have problems with simple instructions?.

I am here to help people of faith clarify their beliefs. If this means that they leave their religion then great.

winner01:
This is a religion section, why not tell seun to change it to an atheist section.

We will leave at once and never bother you with our preaching.

How can one be uncomfortable with christians preaching in a section where people are meant to share their belief in God?

What are you doin on a religion section, do you have problems understanding simple instructions?.

The religion section can include any topic related to religion, which also includes arguments against it. The section is not entitled, "Pro-Religion".

I actually have no problem with religious preaching or missionary work, since the marketplace of ideas should be open to everyone's point of view, but this also means that I should be able to call out a scam if I think I see one.

Mafizo:
pls keep ur atheism to urself. don't come and corrupt young Christian minds that no supreme being exists
stop recruiting people to ur atheist belief

Let the Christians keep their Christianity to themselves as well. No TV preaching, no missionary workers, etc. Until then, no deal.

Lincoln had many enemies because of the Civil War, thus he was well aware that his life was in danger. He often did not even sleep in the White House because of the threats to his life, and he is the first US president to have a full-time bodyguard. Thus a dream about getting assassinated would be expected.

naijadeyhia:



Anti-theists are outspoken, devoted and – at times – confrontational about their disbelief. They believe that “obvious fallacies in religion and belief should be aggressively addressed in some form or another.”

Seun I hope you are observing!


Meanwhile onetrack your Atheistic cocktail is a study in itself. So how would you be able to have an identity or you just swing any way the wind blows from 1 to 4.

My identity is fine thanks. I am all of those without difficulty.

I am 1,2,3 and 4 of the above categories.

I don't think bestiality should be illegal but I personally find it disgusting. In any case it is quite rare and few people engage in it, so it isn't really worth making a big deal out of. I suppose it is wrong if the animal suffers.

Presbulg:


It's either you have very little knowledge about Islam or you trying to engage me in some sort of debate. Ain't got no time for that.

either way, try and click on the link below to know what Islam is all about. I'd say this tho, Islam is more than a religion, it's a total way of life.

www.nairaland.com/152378/most-frequently-asked-questions-islam

It's quite possible that I, an atheist, know more about Islam than you.

And why would I want a 'total way of life' told to me by ancients? I do quite well on my own, thank you.

Just be aware that there is no evidence that "Tejatat Tejasen" even exists.

Also Dr. Hay has declared on video that he does not see anything miraculous about the Quran. Look on youtube and you will see it.

Presbulg:




This post is not about comparing what someone said or whatnot. It is however about a how man who can neither read nor write had a vast knowledge about such things which scientists now approved to be true.

P.S. Prophet Mohammed didn't start Islam nor did he found it. He continued what other prophets started and with the will of Allah improved on it. Alhamdullilahi he was able to finish his work before he died.
My prophet is not into any competion with anybody. Islam is not in competition with any
religion either.

Muhammad was the founder of Islam. He simply attached it to Jewish and Christian traditions in order to claim that he was continuing their religions. Nothing more.

And Muhammad may have been illiterate (conflicting evidence), but that does not mean he was isolated from the world around him. He clearly learned a lot by the time he was 40.

Buddha said most of this a thousand years before Muhammad. Also a number of Greek and Roman philosophers recognized this as well. None of this was new information.

lordnicklaus:
I wonder who still uses the evolution theory apart from NL atheists...

Well, the entire body of biological research is based on the theory of evolution so it appears that most biologists still 'use' the theory.