₦airaland Forum

Henry120:
...... But, I've been saying it for atleast 2 years now that you have 9 Gripen pilots. It boggles the mind why you South-Africans have been arguing a fact.

we only have ~9 because 4 have retired.

9 + 4 = 13 (plus 2 at weapons development = 15)

This means that you have been wrong, for years. What boggels my mind is that you didnt listen to us

[size=15pt]WELL DONE ON POINTING OUT YOU HAVE BEEN WRONG FOR OVER TWO YEARS[/size]

MikeCZAR:
Another political move which will damage the SAAF and the career of those pilots in the force.

Just shows a change in SAAF policy.

Hawks are being shifted from training to operational duties (hence planned move of a squadron to AFB Waterkloof) because they are cheaper.

If you lose half the Hawk fleet from your training program, that means someone else has to pick up the slack... so guess they chose Russia for lead-in fighter training. My guess is that the Russians are cheaper than the Brits and there are political considerations.

Same thing with the batch sent to Cuba... in all likelyhood to make up for the shortage of basic trainers that arose through agreeing to train those Arabs.

The platform incompatibility is a non-issue since if those 10 are destined from Gripen, learning to fly the Hawk is unnecessary. So they develop their jet skills and competancy in Russia and then come here to learn to fly the Grip... doctrinal issues on the other hand are a big problem.

Henry120:
Is that what you were taught in school...... To answer a question with a question?

What use is a 4 GEN Jet is there are no pilots to fly them?


Isn't that quite literally 0 GEN?

But we do have pilots to operate them - at least 9 of them.

Why does NAF operate ZERO 4th Gen platforms?

People in glass houses...

xwolverine:

9 4th gen platforms operational is better than no 4th gen platforms available.

Anway, its a developing story - wait for SAAF to post a rebuttal before passing any judgment

xwolverine:
26 ÷ 3 = 9

9 Gripen pilots?

According to a very controversial newspaper that sells primarily to a certain middle-aged, pale skinned and Afrikaans demographic.

Basically a more sophisticated Sahara Reporters.

xwolverine:

The phrasing of the sentance alone indicates that they actually dont know how many we have. If they knew we had 9 they would have said so, but they dont, and they wont put a specific number in writing because they would get sued out of buisness.

Henry120:
But others do.

Which others?

Henry120:
Why does SAAF only have 9 Gripen pilots?

Why does NAF have ZERO 4th Gen platforms?

lionel4power:
the financially strapped SA Air Force (SAAF) is further extending its foreign training commitments with Russia being the latest addition.
A report has it that about 10 pilots from 2 Squadron at AFB Makhado have been selected for further training in Russia. This is a direct outflow of a co-operation agreement signed between the defence ministers of the two countries, Afrikaans weekly Rapport said.

Four pilots are already undergoing training in Cuba and according to SA National Defence Force Chief General Solly Shoke, agreements have also been entered into with the United States and the United Kingdom on various aspects of military training.

At the same time the paper reports the SAAF has experienced more resignations from the ranks of its jet pilots.

“Four of only the handful of jet fighter pilots in the SAAF have resigned leaving the force with three times as many Gripens as qualified pilots for them,” the paper said.

[size=15pt]26 ÷ 3 = 9[/size]



Making matters worse is that two test pilots based at AFB Overberg, home of the Test Flight and Development Centre (TFDC), have not had their contracts renewed.

Against this background it is not surprising the original number of 18 pilots supposed to go to Russia was cut. Another reason for sending fewer jet pilots is cost. South Africa had to pay for travel and living expenses while Russia is carrying the cost of training.

The majority of those going to Russia are qualified pilots but are short of flying hours to build their experience base. The lack of flying hours, also a result of a tight budget, has contributed in no small measure to this.

Pilots at AFB Makhado told the paper their colleagues who resigned had done so because they couldn’t fly. They have apparently joined airlines or companies operating in the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and China.

It appears the group bound for Russia are not going to have an easy time of it. A SAAF officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Russians had made it clear no time would be wasted on pilots who cannot fly properly.


http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41029&catid=111&Itemid=242


SOUTH AFRICAN AIRFORCE TRULY DEAD..... JUST 9 PILOTS

1. "alleged"
2. 9 Gripen pilots, with 10 more on the way. So 19 soon
3. SAAF = 9 4 th Gen Pilots. NAF = 0 4th Gen pilots

If SAAF is dead then NAAF is a zombie

agaugust:
[s]Fantastic, those are the type of advanced countries Nigerian SF compares with.

Honestly, the South Africans are ashamed on this special forces debate, they have no LAV and no ATV in their entire military[/s] !

Argument has been over for quite some time now

lionel4power:
southie dondies.... fake special force using wheelbarrow vehicle lol

see rea SFs here... with real SF vehicle with proper protection for the frontlines.

Citations that they are SF please.

I know that well equipped soldiers look like SF to Nigerians.... but proof please

agaugust:
[s]
....Standard armies like USA, Nigeria, France, UK, Russia....etc ALL have MORE THAN ONE TYPE of special forces usable vehicles, not useless Southie SF that have only one type that has zero bullet proof protection.

So how do your Southie SF engage in operations where all round bullet proof cover is required against snipers and large number of riflemen shooting AK-47 from all directions

Nigerian SF use VBL, Toyota 4x4, Spartan Mk III, Cobra, Scooter ATV....many different types.

I have proved VBL was designed for SF use and other purposes. I also proved you wrong, VBL is parachute air drop-able.

You have been proved wrong on every point ! South African SF will have their EXPOSED knee caps chopped off with terrorist AK-47

PHOTO : PORTUGAL`S SPECIAL FORCES VBL IN BOSNIAN WAR[/s]

French have access to VBL - chose something else instead

Who says it is portugese SF?

agaugust:
Hornets tyres were running of rims ! No run flat capability !

Fake SF vehicle

who said that is a criteria?

Do you know how runflat works?

lionel4power:
VBL IS ALL THAT AS @AGAUGUST HAS PROVEN

YOUR ARGUMENT IS DEAD.

STOP PROLONGING YOUR SUFFERING UNDER NIGERIAN ASSAULT

and yet the French (who build it) dont use it for their SF

Argument over

lionel4power:
-- we're arguing about the hornets perfomance... learn to argue within context, stop digressing or your primitive brain cannot hold a simple conversation

-- your special forces with superior heavy firepower failed against regulars.. what do you want nukes.... you had superior firepower

-- your hornet was rendered immobile.... it failed

-- you call 107mm rocket small... lol foolish boy what do you want? nuclear bombs?

-- your SF retreated, mission failed

nation of dullard




see 107mm that this dullard is calling small... why dont you use nukes for ordinary rebel group


now we are back to square one. WTF IS SPECIAL FORCE ORIENTATED VEHICLE

-- arguing about the effectiveness of a platform in a battle it was not designed to fight. Context indeed

-- superior firepower? Says whom?

-- no it was not

-- Yes, in terms of MRLS it is small

-- Mission was not to stop Seleka. All objectives met - Bangui was a sucess.

These are the facts

agaugust:
Saaengine your countryman said so with source

No he didnt

Dont come tell lies to my face

agaugust:
265 with rocket artillery and mortar artillery plus military training Vs 1,000 farmer illiterates with no military academy training.

SANDF should have won, you were better equipped, better trained, and protected inside a cement block wall fenced base.

Cowardice ruined the SANDF facing Seleka
.

200 men - your own source says this

1 light MRLS system - with limited ammo

3 81mm mortars - with limited ammo

Against upwards of 3000 heavily armed Seleka soldiers.

Majority of the fighting took place outside of the base

You cant even get the facts right and you want to debate this?

agaugust:
Sure you are referring to SAAF Super Lynx search-rescue helicopters with ZERO ASW capabilities.

South Africa has NEVER owned an ASW helicopter in your 300 year national history.
,

Neither has Nigeria

Difference is ours can actually be used in Naval warfare... yours cannot!!

agaugust:
"President Zuma said just over 200 South African troops had battled more than [b] 1,000 [/b]rebel fighters."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-21923624

Only 1,000 Seleka Vs SANDFcowards.

CASE CLOSED.

Early first reports - battle had only ended 2 days before he said that. The full picture was not yet available.

he also said the battle was only 9 hours

Early reports, all the facts not yet available.

Conservative consensus puts the number at over 2000 were involed, some analyists put the number above 3000.themselves.

agaugust:
Bwahahaha

You call me fake military researcher? You wannabe air force man, your own comment just proved me right.

The VBL is a...

1. Rapid Deployment/Reaction vehicle
2. Reconnaissance vehicle
3. Parachute deployable vehicle

"The Panhard VBL armored scout car was intended for French Rapid Reaction forces. "

http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbl.htm

"VBL Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle. "

http://www.casr.ca/bg-army-larv-project.htm

VBL deployed by parachute in time band 1:08 minute of video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES1XUobXqr4



So according to your own argument those are the 3 things that makes up a special forces vehicle and the Nigerian VBL is qualified 100%

I hang your SAAF air force officers blue uniform on an Iroko tree in a Nigerian forest, you need prayer warriors to help you get your military uniform back from that tree top, Iroko spirit-man no go gree, unless you take am by girigi
.

If the VBL is a special forces vehicle... why do french special forces then use the VPS instead?

WRECKED

agaugust:
Bwahahaha

You call me fake military researcher? You wannabe air force man, your own comment just proved me right.

The VBL is a...

1. Rapid Deployment/Reaction vehicle
2. Reconnaissance vehicle
3. Parachute deployable vehicle

"The Panhard VBL armored scout car was intended for French Rapid Reaction forces. "

http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbl.htm

"VBL Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle. "

http://www.casr.ca/bg-army-larv-project.htm

VBL deployed by parachute in time band 1:08 minute of video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES1XUobXqr4



So according to your own argument those are the 3 things that makes up a special forces vehicle and the Nigerian VBL is qualified 100%

I hang your SAAF air force officers blue uniform on an Iroko tree in a Nigerian forest, you need prayer warriors to help you get your military uniform back from that tree top, Iroko spirit-man no go gree, unless you take am by girigi
.

light
air-mobile
maneuverable
low-battlefeild signature
heavily armed

VBL is not an SF platform, end of story

lionel4power:
-- what is the outcome of the battle?

-- you lost

-- you took four 4X4 trucks which survived the onslaught yet your hornet was made immobile

-- hornet was useless

-- maximum firepower did not save you.. the opponent didnt have such firepower

-- your special forces flopped as usual

-- what is your argument now?

-- what is the outcome of any battle where 200 face over 2000?

-- We met ALL objectives

-- No, the Hornet was not lost

-- One small MRLS hardly indicitive of anything

-- Flopped? Real life isnt a movie, not much can be done when you are outnumbered 20:1

My argument is what it has allways been, Nigeria does not posses a special forces orientated vehicle

lionel4power:
[size=20pt] Now my point is buttressed. you just killed yourself by your own post[/size]
.
.
.
your link

[size=20pt]The combined force was, however, too small to hold, despite firing ripples of 107mm rockets directly into the advancing enemy, and was repeatedly enveloped. By about 6.30pm the fighting had moved into the suburbs, and they were ordered to fall back into the base. They had by then suffered several wounded, and many of the Hornets were running on rims, their tyres long since shot flat.[/size]

[size=20pt]the hornet was useless in actual battle[/size]

[size=20pt]throw your hornets in the sewer and come to Nigeria my boy... free lessons for you... just say please[/size]

Yes, one hornet with an MRLS system was useless against 1000's of attackers

Small ammounts of things get overwhelmed by big ammounts of things in combat

What an exellent point!!

Henry120:
You don't want to answer why you are contradicting your own comments?

I have just answered this very question.

So we have reached that point have we?

You get defeated and you resort to either repeating yourself over and over, or asking pointless questions in order to avoid the content of the argument itself.

Im done here, this was much easyer than usual.

Henry120:
Patrick, why are you contradicting yourself?

I am not contradicting myself

I am talking about 2 different pictures with two different vehicals.

Now, stop trying to avoid dealing with the content of my argument and come at me... if you continue with schoolboy antics and your truly pathetic critical argument then I am going to leave because this is a massive waste of my time.

Henry120:
Is it a Special mission vehicle used by special forces or not?

Do you have autism?

It is a vehical in use with SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES

SF =/= SOF

Henry120:
Are you saying Russian special forces are wrong and you, a civilian, is right?

You have yet to prove that it is a special forces vehical in use with special forces

Henry120:
You are cursing, same time contradicting yourself.

1. Cursing because your stupid.ity offends me

2. How have i contradicted myself?

Henry120:
It proves everything. Russian Special forces use vehicles that are similar to the VBL ( which is a Special forces vehicle by the way) and Otokar Cobra.

1. No, Russian FSB SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES use it

2. No, the VBL is not a special forces vehical

Henry120:
The photo proves it's a special mission vehicle.


[s] As Specnaz is a Russian term it is typically associated with
the special forces units of Russia, however other post-Soviet
states often refer to their special forces by the term as well,
having themselves inherited their special purpose units
from the now defunct Soviet security agencies. The 5th
Specnaz Brigade of Belarus or the Alpha group of the
Security Service of Ukraine are both such examples of non-
Russian Spetsnaz forces.[/s]

Special mission vehicle for URBAN COUNTER-TERRORISM a.k.a: Hostage Rescue/High Level arrests

Henry120:
...... Spetznaz, Alpa group, an elite Counter-terror/ Covert/ Special mission unit much in the fold as US navy seal team six.

1. Saying "spetznaz" in Russian means the exact same thing as saying Special forces in English, its a generic term for any kind "Special Purpose" unit. Russian federation does not operate a SINGLE "Spetsnaz" unit [edit: for those of you who are unable to follow an argument because of your sub-par literacy (Henry120, Augubugug) this means that there is no single unit called "spetznas"]

2. Alpha Group belongs to the FSB (Federal Security Service) and they are a STRICTLY Counter-Terrorism unit. This makes them SOF and not SF. They are more akin to FBI HRT teams or fvcking LAPD SWAT you ignorant fvcking Arrow.

So, well done on:

1. Not posting an SF vehical in use by an SF unit
2. Illistrating your complete fvcking ignorance of not only what "spetznas" means but also its composition.

Henry120:
Are you saying you, an civilian with no prior military training and or experience is right, while the world's 2nd best and largest military with over 500 years battlefield experience is wrong?

You have yet to prove that the vehical is in use with SF or SOF

When you do so we can discuss, until then.... jog on self-service.er

[quote author=Henry120 post=38975827][/quote]LOL

Henry120 I though that someone like you, who has such a boner for Russia would know what the term "Spetznaz" is.

FSB =/= Military

Uninformed pleb, would you like an education?