₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
South African military and politicians are involved in many bribery and corruption allegations from SAAB Gripen deal to Frigate and Submarine deals, your azz is as dirty as that of any other African country

We may be corrupt

But at least we actually get equipment from our arms deals

agaugust:
Boko Haram is busy surrendering in hundreds to Nigerian army today, the war tide has changed ! Nigerian army has wrecked Boko Haram !

Looks like civilians to me

agaugust:
Compare what again you fool ?

I have just listed it yesterday, Nigerian purchases peacetime 2000 to 2010. From Cobras to ATR-42 to F-7 jets, why should I repeat it today, are you maaad ?

On Badger IFV, in 15 years on same purchase, you spent so little money you could only buy about 5 units of Badger till date....costs about $ 25 million peanuts to import 5 units from Finland.

SANDF is broke.

Post your imports as listed by SIPRI between 2000-2014

Why do you refuse to compare? You scared brah?

$1 billion is "so little money?

236 Badger IFV's ordered and paid for, being built in RSA as we speak

Nigeria as usual fails to compare

agaugust:
Patches the school drop out, go for adult education classes, learn to read :

"David Maynier, the shadow Minister of Defence and Military Veterans told IRIN that the South African police had "raised the white flag" on their attempt to impose border security. "

http://www.irinnews.org/report/89262/south-africa-troops-reinforcing-a-porous-and-dangerous-border
.

One - yes, relating to BORDER POLICING SAPS have been replaced as they have been found to be unable to meet the demands of border policing.

Two - Musina is a town, not the border

So yet again we see your pathetic attempt to hide the lies you claim

agaugust:
Choke on this, simpleton

http://www.thenewage.co.za/50085-1007-53-Special_report_Welcome_to_Musina_the_crime_town
.

Where does the article say a single thing you have claimed?

agaugust:
Stop telling lies !

"Musina town - South African special forces troops have begun a six-month deployment along the troubled border with Zimbabwe, where rape, robbery and other crimes are commonplace. Two companies of Parabats - elite South African paratroopers deployed in recent years to Sudan, DRC and Burundi as peacekeepers - have arrived at a highly porous border in the first phase of a deployment."

http://www.irinnews.org/report/89262/south-africa-troops-reinforcing-a-porous-and-dangerous-border

SANDF elite troops in hundreds are deployed in combat to replace runaway Southie Police cowards
.

Deployed to patrol the border not patrol musiana

Must i repost what you said the article says?

Yout intellict is as poorly equipped as your soldiers

FighterPilot:
Nigeria's usual defence budget is $2billion and the $5 billion was just a once off budget to deal with escalating insurgency and buy new weapons to resource your army and also to help an already military personnel which was poorly equipped.

If i am not mistaken, Thesource henry is qouting is their "security" budget - which includes law enforcement and such

Henry120:
You classless liar!

The SANDF has not and did not spend $ 1 billion in a single fiscal year on the badger. Your quoted amount is spread over a significant number of years you liar!

The Nigerian budget is significantly larger at $5.7 billion.

1. I said we spent $1 billion on the badger how is that a lie?

2. Nope - according to Janes your military budget is less than half of ours

agaugust:
Are you really a university graduate? Can you read simple English? The report says the gangs rob and kill, gangs so well armed that South African police with rifles have surrendered and handed over the fight to SANDF.

Fake BSc you have, you cannot even read your own source and quote correctly.

It doesnt say that SAPS have surrendered
It doesnt say SANDF are policing the town

Augubugs famous illiteracy rears its head again!!

agaugust:
Nope, SANDF is fighting against armed Guma Guma gangs who kill, rob, r.ape, etc. That is why the source says it's dangerous operation :

"SOUTH AFRICA: Troops reinforcing a porous and dangerous border".

Your troops wear no kits at all, doing a dangerous operation in a danger zone where SA police has surrendered to superior Guma Guma firepower, leading the SA govt to deploy army elite paratroops there. Your SANDF wear no kit in danger zone where bullets kill.

Can you prove that soldier is on patrol and not on base?

Augubug.... You want me to post pictures of your rag tag militia on the frontlines?

You are so utterly pathetic

agaugust:
Use your brain when you jump into other people's arguments, THIZA was referring to Nigerian procurement in the face of current economic situation from 2014-2015, that's a two year period you dummy, we are comparing who has cash to buy things as at now in recent years, not 15 years ago you mörön.

Learn to answer questions within context.

Show us a list of current South African equipment purchases 2014-2015 so we can laugh at your tiny acquisitions due to your financial problems.

I too can start listing Nigeria's peace time procurement of 15 years ago including F-7 jets, Mi-24 helicopters, AW 109 helicopters, ATR-42 Surveyors, Diamond D42, G-222 aircraft, Beechcraft ISTAR aircraft, Cobra, VBL, BTR-3, Palmaria artillery, space satellites, coastal radars, about 300 navy vessels in one swoop, etc

What's the use repeating old data that everybody already knows? You have kolomental problem that makes your brain enjoy moving backwards in reverse gear everytime on this forum?

I refuse to answer your question the context you framed it in as it is misleading

Financial problems? we just spent $1 billion on the badger IFV... We havd double the budget you do... Now we have financial problems??

Go on then

Go to SIPRI and list everything you purachased since 2000

Lets compare

Peacetime SANDF > War Time Nigeria

agaugust:
.

[size=13pt] Zimbabwean Guma Guma gangs take over South African territory

= South African police runs away in surrender

= Zuma sends in army elite paratroops

= Guma gangs remain elusive and dribbles SANDF troops round in circles

= Reason why this SANDF soldier in the photo looks totally confused fighting Guma Guma

= Never mind his ZERO kit no helmet no body armour no extra bullet double wahala

[img]http://www.irinnews.org/photo/download.aspx?Source=Report&Year=2010&ImageID=201005261538140561&Width=490[/img]

"They say it’s a town that never sleeps, with business being conducted in the day and the nights being ruled by the notorious, heavily-armed predatorial guma guma gang who even the police are fear of.

Musina, South Africa’s gateway to Africa, is a criminally driven town gripped by fear of ruthless gangs of robbers and rapists preying on desperate people crossing the border in search of “a better life” this side of the Zimbabwe/South Africa border.

The well-armed predators are called the guma guma. Even police are afraid to challenge them."

http://www.thenewage.co.za/50085-1007-53-Special_report_Welcome_to_Musina_the_crime_town
.[/size]

SANDF are not deployed to police the town

Stop wasting our time with this drivel

agaugust:
Nope, SANDF is fighting against armed Guma Guma gangs who kill, rob, r.ape, etc. That is why the source says it's dangerous operation :

"SOUTH AFRICA: Troops reinforcing a porous and dangerous border".

Your troops wear no kits at all, doing a dangerous operation in a danger zone where SA police has surrendered to superior Guma Guma firepower, leading the SA govt to deploy army elite paratroops there. Your SANDF wear no kit in danger zone where bullets kill.

All this opinion

Not a single citation

dakingsman:
9ja

No lucky log for the T72?

agaugust:
[s]We don't care about the name of the place Musina or whatever place, all we care about is that your very own source says boldly :

The headline of the photo boldly says "SOUTH AFRICA: Troops reinforcing a porous and dangerous border".

Your rag tag SANDF soldier was operating in dangerous battle zone wearing ZERO kit and ONLY one mag no extra bullets, he looks like a Congolese rag tag rebel .

Case Closed.[/s]

Is border policing a combat deployment?

Are they fighting against heavy weapons, an organzied foe etc?

They are walking along a fence and turning back illegal immigrants

agaugust:
NOTHING? You drank palm wine early Monday morning before brushing your teeth?

40 new Mi-35 and M-171 combat helicopters, T-72 tanks, BTR-4 IFV, RM-70 Rocket artillery, BVP-1 IFV, dozens of armed Eurocopter helicopters, NNS Centenary stealth OPV all delivered in one year, and 6 Su-25 Frogfoot attack jet fighters on way....you call that NOTHING ?

Show us what SANDF acquired in the last 2 years and compare
.

Bragging about tiny acquisitions

Why 2 years? Lets make it 15!

26 Gripen
24 Hawk
4 Valour Class
3 Heroin Class
17 Exocet missiles
320 MILAN ATGM's
80 SUT torpedoes
25 IRIS-T
10 Litening targetting pods
30 A109 Augusta
2 PAGE Air search radar
1 Kondor-E Surveillance satellite
236 Badger ICV ($1,2 billion dollar deal - a significant portion of your entire military budget)
170 Starstreak missiles
4 Lynx
50 Paveway JDAM's

and this is only SIPRI based imports, it excludes, Umbani JDAM, Sky-Guard CRAM upgrade, GBADS phase 3, Seeker 400 etc etc etc

This is us in peacetime

Lezzlie:
BIG FAT LIE!!!
[s]
1)if ACIRC was formed to integrate into ASF. If it were so ,why this comment: Critics are also concerned that the ACIRC may draw attention away and undermine the investment that has been put into launching the ASF. If the AU has been unable to agree on a standby force for more than a decade it remains doubtful it would be possible to organise a more complex and costly rapid reaction force since the fundamentals are not very different for both of these forces.

3) You deserve to be banned for life. you're a disgrace to online debate . Boring, tactless troll. Read here : In 2003, the AU finalized plans for a rapid reaction unit, the African Standby Force (ASF), that could be deployed around the continent in the event of “grave circumstances.” Yet today, only three of five African regions – Western, Southern, and Eastern Africa – have their brigades ready to deploy .

file:///storage/emulated/0/UCDownloads/What%20to%20Expect%20from%20the%20African%20Union%20Summit%20%C2%AB%20Africa%20in%20Transit.mht

2) I skipped number 2 because it's not under contention. You're saying the same endless repetition.

4) South Africa isn't the only contributor read this: The ACIRC is a 'coalition of the willing'. Contributions and participation are voluntary and countries will be using their own troops and money when called upon to respond to future missions under the aegis of the ACIRC. South Africa isn't even buoyant enough to fulfil its own contribution. Sandf begging for funds as I type this.

file:///storage/emulated/0/UCDownloads/Africa%20Watch.mht

5) ACIRC IS A STUPID DUPLICITY ONLY A NOVICE COUNTRY LIKE SOUTH AFRICAN CAN DO: ACIRC will continue to play its part - at least on paper - until the Rapid Deployment Capability is up and running, the ISS PSC Report suggests. 'As soon as the ASF can operationalise its own Rapid Deployment Capability, ACIRC will have served its purpose and is likely to be dismantled,' it concludes. An honourable discharge, no doubt, for saving, if not lives, then at least face.

Written by Peter Fabricius, ISS Consultant

Lastly :

“The big challenge and this is the big irony is that SA which is championing ACIRC doesn’t really have the capability to support ACIRC… There’s a disjuncture between the capabilities that SA has and its ambition,” said Jakkie Cilliers, executive director of the Institute for Security Studies.
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2015-01-14-playing-the-african-statesman-with-teeth-is-president-zumas-new-fighting-force-such-a-good-idea/#.VhFp4Zgo8uo[/s]

3 sources that blow your entire argument out of the water:

The ACIRC will serve as an interim measure ahead of the establishment of a permanent African Standby Force, which was originally expected to be operational by 2015. Zuma proposed the concept of the ACIRC at last year's African Union (AU) summit in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, where the proposal was endorsed.
http://www.southafrica.info/news/international/au-270614.htm#.VgqjuHqqqko#ixzz3n8g95ofl



Bah told delegates the African Capacity for Immediate Response to Crises (ACIRC) would become part of the ASF. This means ACIRC, which SA Army Chief Lieutenant General Vusi Masondo said would be operational this month, effectively has a shelf life of six months if the December 2015 deadline for operationalisation is adhered to.

-DefenceWeb

And, ACRIC is supported by Africa's big dogs

In May last year, South Africa, Ethiopia and Uganda were the first support the initiative and pledged to provide troops should the need arise.
http://www.southafrica.info/news/international/au-270614.htm#.VgqjuHqqqko#ixzz3necoHMsF



ACRIC = ASF

ACRIC is not an alternate system, it is "an interim measure ahead of the establishment of a permanent ASF" and will be integrated once the ASF is operationalized this year.

With regards to your "dont have the men or money for ACRIC' - $400million and 1500 men say otherwise

All we have here is a little boy who doesnt understand ACRIC but doesnt like it because yet again, South Africa has put its money where its mouth is and Nigeria cowers in its shadow.... we have pulled of something, we have created something, while Nigeria does nothing but resists just for the sake of resisting, because Nigerians are an irrational and emotional people... now hurry up and send your boys to our Battle school so that we may train you!

agaugust:
[s]If there is no war threat there, no soldier would have been posted to mount check point there in the first place.

Your SANDF on war duty with one magazine per rifle....per soldier....in Congo volatile war zone[/s]

Who says they are mounting a checkpoint?

Maybe they are walking to the spaza shop to buy a box of smokes?

Maybe they are standing there because thats where they get cellphone reception?

Maybe they just like standing there?

Unless you provide context you cannot draw any inferences from the picture

agaugust:
Show us date stamp for the photo.

Congo DRC was NEVER been peaceful from 1990s days of Mobutu war with rebels

Because that is when they were entitled on the forum I got them from.

Prove me wrong - provide context

Henry120:
Are you drunk on palm wine?


SANDF soldiers wore interested in discussing about pap in the eastern DRC, than their actual deployment.

o look... the image is from APR 2013... when did the South Africans under the FIB redeploy to Goma?

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-26-00-who-wants-sa-back-in-bangui

Henry120:
Are you drunk on palm wine?


SANDF soldiers wore interested in discussing about pap in the eastern DRC, than their actual deployment.

Have we reached that point in the debate when you have nothing left to contribute?

Provide context (Date, time etc) or else the pictures are meaningless

Henry120:
Your poorly trained troops "gisting" about pap and braai in an active war zone, while on duty!

Do you know when and where the pictures were taken?

Shall we do a reverse image search?

Henry120:
Is he in your living room in johannesburg?

Can you prove he isnt?

[quote author=Henry120 post=38664950][/quote]Can you provide the context of these pictures?

Do you know where and when they were taken?

I know when and were this picture was taken - Nigerian soldiers moving forward to attack boko haram

agaugust:
We see nothing like that here, all we see is a rag tag SANDF soldier in Bangui bush with ZERO kit, not even one pure water sachet to drink !
.

What proof do you have that he is in the bush?

What context?

agaugust:
Patches said so....

Or is that Pretoria city they are patrolling ? UN deployed troops on mission inside Pretoria ?

That is a patrol INSIDE GOMA from 2008 ... when the region was relatively peaceful.

They walked to a local bridge to repair it. They then went and briefed the locals about the dangers of ebola and played a soccer match.

They were operating in a low threat environment

agaugust:
So why were you telling lies that helmet is SANDF standard?

The Nigerian troops in the photo Patches have been repeatedly posting , removed helmets because of scorching sun in semi desert. So ?
l

Where then is the equipment they have taken off?

Is it rendered invisible by more of that famous black magic?

Surely if you take something of yours off... you then have to carry it?? wow, strong camouflage magic nigerian army has!!

Henry120:
Boy, you are so confused, and you are completely contradicting yourself.

How am I contradicting myself?

The Vice reporter considered the situation volatile enough to don body armor... as did those of your men who were be lucky enough to be issued with it

Lezzlie:
[s]Dummy, merging ARCIR with ASF is not in the purview of Zuma or your ill-equipped SANDF. Are you a drooling newt?

There's nothing like a merger. ACIRC and ASF are like oil and water. They can never mix. Let me brake it down for you again. Stay away from your pap so that you can it in in.

ASF is been drafted technically since 2003 and its forces will be from the 5 regions of Africa, ECOMOG in West Africa and it counterparts in North, South and eastern and central regions.

It will be deployed solely by the AU but with the approval of the regions in question. Now 3 regions have been ready since namely West, South and East or Central (can't be sure). Only two region have been delaying the deployment. Thankfully it is set and preparation has already began.

ACIRC on the other hand is meant to fill the gap until ASF kicks off. But its motive has been doubted. It is on purely contributory and voluntary basis with no means of financial support other than the voluntary countries themselves which are just 13 in number most of whom are pauper state.

Ghana, Chad and Senegal are amongst the countries that have indicated interest. These countries can't even shoulder the burden of ECOWAS in their region. NIGERIA CARRIES MORE THAN 70% OF ECOWAS EXPENSES. So who is fooling who?

If ACIRC is a futile attempt at duplicity. It is dead already.

ASF kicks off in a few months and south Africa is turning over their weak army and equipment into the kickoff of ASF. Is that what you call a merger?[/s]

1. Intergration of ACRIC into the ASF has been the plan from the start- read the citations

2. ASF does not yet exist - hence we stood up and filled the capacity gap while we waited for ASF TO COME ONLINE IN DECEMBER 2015

3. Nope, only South Africa and East Africa have actual standing formations

4. What are you talking about? South Africa is the only ACRIC contributor... and has said the force will be our ASF contribution when ASF comes online

5. ACRIC is not duplicity. ACRIC = ASF

Again, congradulations at showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

ACRIC and ASF are not two seperate things... they are completely interrelated. What has happened is that South Africa has stood up and (at great personal expense -$400million) fulled the continental gap in capacity while we await you vagabonds to get your act together.

Now hurry up and send your men to our battle school so we can show teach you how the ASF will work

agaugust:
You just confessed, HEADING TO frontline, but NOT YET arrived on the frontline. Thanks for explaining why they removed helmets in safe zone
.

THEY BLATANTLY DO NOT HAVE HELMETS OR ANYTHING ELSE

actually in the feild

actually on patrol