₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Henry120 post=38975748][/quote]Nice photo

But what does it prove?

O, nothing

Henry120:
So, this, as well as Nigerian Army Panhard VBL are Special forces vehicles?

no

It is not light
its is not air-mobile (cant para-drop them)
It is not maneuverable (in comparison)
It does not have a small battlefeild signature
it is not heavily armed (one HMG v HMG + multiple GPMG's)

Not to mention poor situational awareness

Henry120:
What is a Special forces vehicle?

light
air-mobile
maneuverable
low-battlefeild signature
heavily armed

agaugust:
13 hour battle by about 50 SF men, 6 killed while running away from Seleka. Bangui was a disaster for Southie SF.

So all you have in the past 20 years is 13 hours battle experience and it was a defeat

The medals you gave them is for their Olympic running speed to the airport seeking French army protection.

How was it a disaster?

How is stopping the enemy dead for 13 hours a disaster?

How is inflicting upwards of 400 casualties for the loss of only 13 men a disaster?

How is defending your base a disaster?

The Nigerian army wishes it was capable of bangui type defences... Otherwise you wouldent have soldiers ib dresses and 400 men hiding in Cameroon

agaugust:
1. Show citation to prove that those 1980s white men apartheid Recces trained new ANC mandela special forces in 1994....prove it !
2. No black South Africans joined apartheid recces to fight against their fellow South Africans. The recces used black Angolans from UNITA , etc
3. Bangui, about 50 SF ran away from Seleka, 6 SF killed . 13 hour combat experience for about 50 SF in 20 years....cool

4. Rhino Poachers defeat South special forces everyday in your Kruger Park homeland
.

1. I dont need to, thats how armies work. You wish to make allegations to the contrary? Post citations

2. Provide citations then

3. How do you run away for 13 hours in a battle that surrounds your base and still end up in your base? Knowledge is passed on through training, experience is irrelevant.

4. Says who? Citations please!

Do you ever stop to think how pathetic your arguments are? I am so far passed taking them seriously that i only respond to you when i am bored on the subway...

agaugust:
SANDF did NOT order any Seeker drone, it's for your civilian border services, you liar !

Also, the Hornet vehicle you posted at a display show is NOT available with all those weapon options for your special forces, all we see in use are basic Hornets with ordinary machine guns......another case of Mokopa not ordered

Then tell us the sailing range of your rubber inflatable boat that your SF will use from submarine to land on beach, or your submarine will climb to land on the shore sand with tyres driving like a car
.

1. Who says it was ordered by a border agency? No one

2. I posted the SANDF Hornet with all of those weapons systems - are you blind?

3. Does it matter? 1km, 2km. What is the range of your boats? Its the only low profile transport you have.

Wasting my time

agaugust:
No you do NOT !

The Hornet of Wasp vehicle is NOT a special forces designed vehicle, it is just an ordinary reconnaissance vehicle built for any military that likes to use them, SANDF just decided to use it for your special forces....

[size=13pt] Hornet is NOT a special forces purpose built vehicle - Confirmed ! [/size]

"The Wasp rapid deployment reconnaissance vehicle developed in 2003 produced by BAE Land Systems OMC and to satisfy the requirements for a light airborne rapid deployment vehicle.

In April 2008 the Wasp was chosen by the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) for use by their special forces in covert operations as an air-droppable vehicle. The South Africans ordered 25 of these out of a total requirement for 40 vehicles.

The vehicle is known as the Hornet by the South Africans."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/baewasp/

Fake SA Special Forces vehicle
.

Whos requirements was it designed to meet? OURS

Not sure what you think you are proving with this

agaugust:
I just did showed those photos yesterday on page 2656, or are you born mmentally retaaarded ?

Does it look like the ones i posted?

No it does not

Now post nigerian vehicals that look like the ones i posted please

B

agaugust:
6 Special forces soldiers of South Africa were killed by Seleka you liar !

"The Beeld reported on Tuesday that beyond the official toll of those injured, killed and missing, six special forces operators were also killed in the fighting."


South African special forces were said not to have fought according to @Andrewza because all 13 men who died and were named are paratroopers not SF https://www.facebook.com/CHUTESYSTEMS/posts/10151489647766773

This proves the Seleka story that more than 13 SANDF troops dies, actually over 50 died.

South African Beeld news report above also confirms this, saying apart from official list of 13 dead Parabats, another 6 dead special forces were not publicly named.

The SF could have been killed while running away to avoid a fight with Seleka.

Even if they did fight, the only fact we know is that either fleeing or fighting Seleka, SA special forces got beaten up blue black by local farmers turned rebels with no military training

.

It does not confirm that more than 13 were killed

Its an allegation without proof

stop wasting our time with childish arguments - even if SF were killed, what difference does it make?

agaugust:
.

[size=13pt]

So, it was only 1,000 Seleka men that uprooted more than 250 SANDF Elite forces.

"President Zuma said just over 200 South African troops had battled more than 1,000 rebel fighters."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-21923624

The SANDF mission was not just to train CAR government troops as claimed, the mission had been expanded to include staying in CAR to protect human lives of that country...so mission was NEVER accomplished and a total failure !

" It remains for Minister Mapisa-Nqakula and President Zuma to explain how the diplomatic note figures in the extension of the MoU and the deployment of the South African troops, who would come under rebel fire three months later.

The diplomatic notes provide for the ‘reinforcement of the South African Contingent for self-defence, protection of property and saving of human lives in Bangui’. The expanded scope of cooperation to include – self-defence, protection of property and saving of human lives."

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-04-18-car-debacle-da-gunning-for-zuma/#.Vh1gT_lViko

[/size]

Different sources cite different numbers

200 v 1000 is still a fight noone would expect to win

agaugust:
You are posting old 1980s photos of ancient, dead, retired, or wheel chair ridden sick old men of Apartheid era .

Will dead soldiers fight for you today? The few blacks among them are NOT even South Africans, they are mercenary Angolans, Rhodesians, and Mozambicans who supported apartheid regime against ANC, MPLA, FRELIMO. Are they in your military today? 2015

Show us your South African SF of today with combat experience
.

1. Yes and they trained and selected new Recce members
2. Citations that all blacks in photos are NOT South Africans
3. Bangui and DRC

Also stop posting that ridiculous photo of your men posting like that!

agaugust:
SAAF has NO drone.

SANDF only has a short range old fashioned obsolete drone with ZERO weapons.

NAF has guided missile armed drones with anti-tank capability. We are 50 years ahead of you.

Except we just ordered the Seeker

Aaaand you argument goes down in flames

agaugust:
[s]LOL....your own photos kill y.our argument

Those vehicles are not any specially built special forces vehicles, or can you tell us their special names ?

They are simply variants of infantry Humvees, Toyotas, Jeeps, Landrovers, etc.

Funny your last American SF photo below shows a distant ATV in the photo, Nigeria has it, you dont have in SA ! The nearer vehicle in the same photo painted brown is nothing but a simple Toyota Hilux kind of vehicle with guns on it Nigeria has it in the second photo below painted green.

Nigeria has thousands of open body Toyota 4x4 including the ones with armour despite being open.

We have all you have, and we have extra and more, we have a large variety of vehicles our SF can choose from....LAV and ATV, open or covered, armoured or soft skin.

Best equipped SF multiple variety vehicle fleet in Africa is that of Nigeria. No rival from Cape Town to Cairo.

Nigeria compare with America NOT South Africa[/s] !
.

Show us a picture of a Nigerian Toyota 4X4 like the ones I posted


Fact is, you have no specialist and specially designed SF vehical.
We do.

End of Story

lionel4power:
keep your useless lesson.

your post reeks of illiteracy.

well if im trying to influence people with my one-dimesional views why dont you provide a counter-view. or your useless brain cant come up with anything.

-- i ask you again provide a source where a 'special force vehicle' has been used, since south Africans owns one it shouldnt be difficult.

- Gulf War 1
- Mali
- Afghanistan
- Gulf War 2

lionel4power:
i never said anything about it being limited learn to read. so south african hordes of foolish dogs thinks that because you have a piece of equipment then the whole world military doctrine should be changed...

come here and be telling us 'special force vehicle' like its some thing spectacular.


you can tow the line and receive free education from Nigerians. just say please

No, you are the ones arguing for a change of special forces doctrine not us.

Our Wasp is in-line with the rest of the doctrinal thinking of SF/SOF around the world.

You are the ones coming here talking about VBL's and sh1t

lionel4power:
your idiocy is overwhelming... what trash did you just spit out here? are you trying to re-design special forces?


so special forces now needs to heavy firepower? then what is the job of regular infantry.

-- when seal teams killed osama bin laden in battle of tora bora did they use 'special force vehicles'?

-- when ISIS leader Abu sayyaf was killed by american special forces in Syria did they use 'special force vehicle'?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/top-isis-leader-abu-sayyaf-5707626

-- when russian special forces killed Aliaskhab Kebekov, also known as Ali Abu Mukhammad in the caucasus did they use 'special force vehicles'?
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/islamic-terrorist-leader-killed-in-caucasus-say-russian-authorities/519363.html

-- when US army SF killed Zafar the leader of al-Qaeda in northern Iraq, did they use 'special force vehicles'?
http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Capture-Operations-Notorious-Terrorist-ebook/dp/B00447822I

-- when Nigerian special forces killed shekau I, II, III did they use 'special forces vehicles'?

-- and countless hostage rescues around the world was 'special force vehicle' used?

-- i asked you to define 'special forces vehicle' and you have not said anything.

-- now tell me one mission that special forces vehicle was actually used fool, idiot, illiterate.


your idiocy is becoming annoying. useless illiterate southie...

Implying the duties and roles of special forces are limited to the cherry-picked examples you have chosen.

Nice job trying to construct your little straw-man though

agaugust:
Why should a Cobra be open all round when it has many side and rear windows/firing ports for SF to use in firing individual rifles? Dummy.

Only a foolish soldier like you thinks the best thing to do for special forces is to put them in an OPEN VEHICLE with ZERO PROTECTION and no single bullet proof cover so that even a 10 year old boy will kill all your SF with simple AK-47 rifle.

American special forces have thousands of SF Humvees fully covered and armoured, http://usamilitaryposters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/SEALSV12-800.jpg

Only SANDF has NO SINGLE light armoured vehicle for your Southie army or special forces, your SF get killed like houseflies

Nigeria has VBL, Cobra, Igirigi, Spartan LAV with 100% all round bullet proof cover for our SF and regular infantry.

https://i0.wp.com/oi59.tinypic.com/9qfbmc.jpg

If we want to use open vehicles, Nigeria has many types and sizes of small 4x4 ATV and those are not even available in South African SF units, you lack mixed vehicles, multipurpose vehicles, amphibious vehicles, you lack many things that Nigerian SF have.

[size=13pt] Show us your own ATV.... [/size]
.

South Africa has a purpose-designed, air-droppable SF vehical that carries more men and more weapons and is more maneuverable

VBL, Cobra, Igirir, Spartan are not SF vehicals, they are SOF vehicle.

Again, I need to tell you to learn what SF do and what SOF do.

agaugust:
I actually did not waste my own time, I did not reply to any of your comments today, it would be a waste of my Sunday evening. I wanna go have dinner with my friends rather than spend that time replying your stoopid comments from a deranged mind like a lunatiks'

You didnt reply because you got owned

The fact that you, like henry120, now resort to personal attacks underline this

Henry120:
Again, your inability to apply an independent thought process is astonishing. No different from a "zombie".


The word appropriately describes your delusional, borderline unstable state.

Always learn to ask questions.

Continuing with personal attacks?

Thats not the meaning of the word - and you call me illiterate? Irony.

Henry120:
"Do you mean the subject you were un-willing to discuss?". You are always this disillusioned.

Been discussed in the other thread, you argued vehemently and then ended up reguritating what I said on beegugugs page.

So yes i am disillusioned with your argument.

*FYI, go look up the meaning of disillusioned, you are using it incorrectly - you illiterate.

Henry120:
Yet again, Patrick is completely disillusioned. Your lack of understanding is your un-doing not mine.

On the whole, you consistently fail to apply independent reasoning , you are also fond of jumping into conclusions.

This, been a another example.


Let to ask proper questions.

I see the fact that you have abandoned the topic at hand and have resorted to personal attacks to indicate that you realize you have been sunk.

Thanks for playing.

Henry120:
Do you even apply independent reasoning at all?

It just seems as though you never weigh options. It's an unfortunate method of reasoning.

You should instead ask, what are your reasons? Don't start making comments like..... So SAS and Royal marine commandos are all wrong, and you are right, it's illiterate to do that.

Think independently.

An unfortunate reasoning?

Ok me reasoning is this:

1. The SAS and RM Commando's are professionals, lead by professionals and have decades of institutional experience as well as access to reams of information that we do not.
2. Henry120 is a civilian, with no military training and a pretty blatant bias

Who could be wrong and who could be right?

Yes, I have independent reasoning, and the vehicle in question is perfect for the role that it is envisioned to full - confirmed by the fact that they have adopted it. Also confirmed by your comments about the class of vehical on beegugugs blog.

Also, I dont think you know what illiterate means you ingrate

Henry120:
There is nothing good about the Supacat special forces vehicle.

Dont worry SAS and Royal Marine Commandos... you are all wrong!

Why?

Because Henry120 says so!

agaugust:
.
PHOTO 1 : South African Hornet vehicle with no safe armour protection....SF gets killed by AK-47 from distance, exposed

PHOTO 2 : Nigerian VBL vehicle with 100% all round safe armour protection.....SF fully bullet proof protected

Who is better equipped with special forces light air deployable vehicles? Nigerian army !

O, so the lighter, smaller and more heavily armed vehicle that carries more men that was designed specifically for use by SF/SOF is not as good as the VBL because the bigger, poorly armed vehical that carries less men?

Not to mention that the Wasp is not only lighter but has a significantly more powerfull engine (70KW VBL v 100KW Wasp) meaning it has better performance - which is what SF need.

While the Wasp is specifically designed to be parachute deployable.... no mention of simular capabilities are made for the VBL

[size=15pt]Lets play a game: Pick the one that is not like the rest [/size]

agaugust:
.
[s]PHOTO 1 : South African Hornet vehicle with no safe armour protection....SF gets killed by AK-47 from distance, exposed

PHOTO 2 : Nigerian VBL vehicle with 100% all round safe armour protection.....SF fully bullet proof protected

Who is better equipped with special forces light air deployable vehicles? Nigerian army[/s] !

VBL is not an SF/SOF unit

Apples and oranges.

agaugust:
[s]Your SA Police SF/SOF are there making videos of hanging on helicopters while your entire country has streets full of roaming and rampaging assassins, armed robbers, murder gangs, etc.

Your country is the most crime infested and most bloody violent in Africa, yet you have special task force police failing in your own backyard.

Last time I checked, Rwandan assassins invaded South Africa, entered a major city metropolis of Johannesburg, executed an operation, killed a top VIP and escaped back to Rwanda, while your fancy video making SAPS, SF/SOF or special police was turned into a bunch of useless dummies on home soil by ordinary Rwandan criminals[/s]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/02/rwanda-former-spy-chief-karegeya-murdered-kagame
.

Implying counter-intelligence has anything to do with SOF units

watch the video - its live combat you assclown

fact is:

SAPS-STF > Nigerian SOF/SF units

agaugust:
.
[s]Nigerian VBL is FULLY AMPHIBIOUS.....let us see your Hornet do amphibious crossing with your SF troops drowning in the river or lake

Our VBL can be used to drop our SF many kilometers off coast line and swim the sea to land and drive to target area WITHOUT NEED OF A BOAT like your submarine deployed SF who will have ZERO access to land vehicle transport....I guess that carry MILAN anti-tank missile launchers across water too and get it soaked wet and kill all the electrical components[/s]
.

Citations please that the VBL can be deployed at sea

agaugust:
1. Fool, HALO jump is a simple parachute jump, even Wikipedia explains it. Nothing special there, fool.

2. Does your submarine land on coast land to insert troops? No ! You drop them off at sea far off where water is deep and the SF travel the remaining distance by inflatable boat . Nigeria has many X-38 stealth combat catamaran specially built for SF insertions in covert ops.

3. Trekking 500 km does not win any soldier a fight. Can you fight and kill the enemy? How many kilometers did US Navy seals trek to kill Osama Bin Laden? 0 km. We are talking about SF in combat not olympics walk competition. BTWN, all evidence shows Nigerian SF have more stamina, we have compared SA SF and your men are weaker in quality of physical stamina training. Wanna repeat that photo show ?

4. VBL carries all manner of weapons and equipment from cannon to missiles, auto grenade launchers to anti-aircraft missiles and radar.

The Hornets deployed by SANDF have only machine guns, no missile or rockets, we saw them in Bangui. You too were posting Hornet variants you don't have, so I too posted VBL weapons options confirmed with photos.

The VBL can be parachute dropped . Nigeria too has all those MGL, AGL, knee mortar, anti-material rifle blah blah blah. Why the noise?

Who told you VBL is not a specialty SF vehicle you dummy? See the display photo below at a special forces equipment show, VBL + SF black amphibious boat and the SF troop on it ! Mumu. The Hornet is a stupiiid SF vehicle that cannot swim and is exposed with no cover for the troops sitting inside it, every Southie SF gets killed even by stray bullets

5. Killing every successor of Shekau is an achievement, SANDF failed to kill Seleka rebel leader since 2013.

6. SA-7 missile has 4.5 km altitude http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

The Starstreak is a joke at 1km altitude

7. RPG needs only one man to operate you dumbo dundee brain ! Even a 16 year old boy can use RPG alone by himself. You fool !

SF are not sit down and wait here anti-tank fighting crew, they are fast moving attack and get out small teams, facing more than one enemy tank like a T-90 will get them wiped out in 5 minutes. Many tanks now have ERA or composite armour that will defeat ATGM, then the SF presence is known and their lives will end that day. SF don't engage in anti-tank missions as a specialty. They are trained to be riflemen.

8. SANDF brigadier general says there was no sniper record kill, and that kills the story, it becomes mere Wikipedia propaganda formulated by SANDF men to romance their own egos

9. It is on record that SANDF special forces refused to fire one bullet in Bangui, according to your own country's sources. They ran away.

10. There is NO RECORD of any combat achievement of current South African special forces in the past 20 years. Old men have retired, dead.

1. LOL he thinks HALO is simple

2. What is the RANGE of the X-38?

3. Lol "what does stealth insertion have to do with special forces work" Your understanding of SF work is that of a childs - 99% of what they do is NOT combat

4. Your VBLS dont carry any of that equipment. I posted an SANDF Hornet - or can you not see the soldiers in the background? Blind man!
- who said the VBL can be paradropped? Citations please
- big VBL is not an SF platform... again, go figure out the difference between SF and SOF you fvcking pleb


5. "killed" the same guy 3 times

6. From your link:

The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4). The SA-7b has a slant range of about 4.2 km, a ceiling of about 2300 meters
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

Starstreak can hit targets up to 5km ceiling.

Please dont come here and compare anceint MANPADS to the most advanced system in the world.

7. No, no to everything you have said you utter clown.

8. Apart from the soldiers on the ground who confirmed it. Citations have been posted.

9. Please cite where it says the Recces refused to fight

10. Apart from the world record sniper kill and other accomplishments in the DRC?

Stop wasting my time with assinine arguments

Henry120:
It smacks of you having a low self-esteem you half-illiterate South-African.

It smacks of you having no citations to prove the bullsh1t you spew on this forum

.

Panzerfaust:
I disagree...India's procurement methods are quite impressive, if you ask me. They have been smart enough compulsorily demand transfer of technology for most of their major equipment. The T-90s, are being produced in India, the Su-30MKIs, by HAL, and several upgrades on the BMP-2s are also locally upgraded. India's biggest military threat isn't Pakistan, as many would believe, but China. One knows that the Chineese and Russians are bedfellows, hence, its smart for the Indians to locally produce Russian equipment. Right now, India is building its own Tanks (Arjun) while importing French made Rafales..So you see, the ability of the Indians to juggle both the East and West is remarkable. Also, country with a massive Army like India cannot make the mistake of standardizing its equipment on a large scale..One MBT, One IFV, one ASF, One Interceptor, One Ground attack aircraft? That's Suicide!

Take a look at their arsenal its a missmatched hodgepodg of equipment and they are struggling to keep it operational and supplied.

I didnt say one MBT/IFV/etc... generally you would have (like hypothetically): wheeled APC (MRAP nowadays)/tracked (medium APC), wheeled IFV (light), tacked IFV (medium), multi-role fighter, strike fighter and maybe air-superiority etc

And no, Arjun is trash - indians have scrapped their current one and gone back to the drawing board... no wait, they are building it again... no, its scrapped again... (and round and round we go).

i know i am starting to post allot of stuff from syria here. I am sorry and I will avoid doing so.

But this is tooo big to miss.... look what just turned up outside of a certain Slavic naval base in Syria

#RoastedJihadistSoon!