₦airaland Forum

Bacteriologist:
So your dictionary that said atheism is a disbelief, now twisted it as a "doctrine" which also means belief. So atheism is a belief and disbelief at the same time?

it depend on what are your beliefs and disbeliefs.
You lack belief in the existence of a god that is a disbelief which translate to a belief that says a god do not exist.
At that point you have a belief, which says a god do not exist.
An according to that dictionary, Religion is an interest, a belief..

You can help yourself to process that from there

That's a very intelligent dictionary isn't it lol....

are there other alternative?

Smh at least you accept that there are TWO definitions of Atheism. Actually, there are many of them.

But it mainly boils down to two.

1. Weak Atheism
2. Strong Atheism


Weak atheism is not a knowledge claim. It is a "disbelief" claim. (Or more correctly a rejection of a belief claim)

Q: Do you believe in a god?
A: No I don't.

Simple.

1. Weak atheists don't necessarily "believe" there is no god. They are in a position where belief is not warranted. Mainly because theists do a ridiculous job of providing evidence for any of their gods. And also because it's illogical to disprove what has not been proven in the first place.


2. Strong Atheists: This one is what you have been trying to put all other atheists under because of your lovely dictionary. Lmao
Strong atheists are usually tagged explicit atheists mainly because they actively profess a belief that no gods exist. These ones would argue even with weak atheists that gods can be proven to not exist.



Sure. When speaking, I could say "Your god does not exist" what matters now is the CONFIDENCE level of that claim. Weak atheists have a lower confidence level when they assert that gods do not exist. They only disbelieve because there's no evidence from theists. They are also called Pragmatic atheists or Agnostic Atheists.

Strong atheists have a higher confidence level when they assert the same (they believe and can argue so). They're also called Explicit atheists or Gnostic Atheists.

So there I fixed it for you.

hmmm!
I didn't know this?
I thought all atheists must have arrived at some kinda advance knowledge to conclude there is no god?

I'm learning something new.

LordReed:
Then do you accept that everything is a religion including commenting on Nairaland?

No!
But if anyone picks so much interest in any religious issue or topic on Nairaland, watch it, that person is already into religion.

No you don't, equivocation is a terrible position to take because it used to avoid being pinned down on a point.

because you want to pin down an idea on a point so you shouldn't be objective?

Which is what you are attempting to do here. You desperately want to paint atheism as a religion so you can dismiss it as being equally bad as religion.

I don't think the consensus to see atheism as consisting of doctrine in an English dictionary was deliberate, ofcourse I couldn't possibly be the one who made the consensus or wrote that dictionary that you should say i want deliberately paint atheism, what's my own

Suppress religion? Nope, instead we'll show the bad ideas entrenched in religion so that people can see for themselves. There is no need to suppress religion, just shine the light of reality on it, just like Covid 19 is doing right now. Where are the miracle workers and the great prayer warriors or the prophets? Are they not all equally waiting like the rest of us unbelievers on the fruits of scientific inquiry to cure this disease? This is all that needs to happen.

If everything is religion then why is there a special category for religion? This equivocation continues to be unnecessary and needless. You don't go about calling everything a religion. This desperate attempt to just paint atheism as a religion is so transparently obvious. Even if we grant you that atheism is a religion then you also will have to concede everything of interest is religion leading to a nonsense position.

let's look at again :

an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

This definition is quite specific, it does not apply to everything.
So everything can't possibly be religion.

LordReed:
It very well does exclude it. This meaning you have brought will only lead to the conclusion that anything of interest to a group of humans is religion which you very well know that that is not how we view things.

unfortunately, that is what it seems.
I mean, as much as other activities other than religion may be of interest to people, so is religion of interest to those who are into it

We don't call stamp collecting a religion, we don't call going to work a religion. There is a meaning to religion that everyone understands when you mention it, there is no need to begin to equivocate just to make a point.

you have to equivocate in order to avoid bias judgement.
Because if you are looking at it only from your own stand point of view especially when your view is science oriented or originated and is advanced, you may end up apply your idea about religion where it does not call for and find yourself trying to suppress religions you now consider primitive forms of religion like Christianity and Islam .

One thing i no for sure is, the human mind is very dynamic and full of imaginations and at the same time frigid and lacking imaginations at some point. So to be realistic, it is not possible that after interaction with the outer environment using the five senses that the mind will not evolve ideas, concepts and doctrines which is actually where conventional religion originated.

Scientific theories and laws are not excluded from the same process : the five senses are used for observation and whatever conclusion is arrived can be believed by the mind religiously thereby consistuting RELIGION.

Maximus69:
I've told them several times without number that RELIGION is not just about the belief in God alone but whatever you have absolute confidence in even without seeing it!

For instance a doctor will prescribe a medication and ask you to use it RELIGIOUSLY!

That means you should believe in such prescription even without seeing it working at the moment!

That's why the Bible defines Faith as the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though NOT seen! Hebrew 11:1

This definition is clear enough that anyone trusting in any arrangement and working diligently with such an arrangement before seeing the fulfilment is a RELIGIONIST!

So far you come on social media spending your time to type words meant to reach the heart of other humans like you, there is no doubt about that. You surely BELIEVE in what you're doing, which makes you RELIGIOUS!

obviously, just like every other religion they criticize, these guys are living in huge delusion too, they are not aware

Bacteriologist:
I think that you're dishonestly ignoring one definition because it does not suit your narrative.

no!
All definitions inclusive as they are applied to different situations yet one word ATHEISM.
I'm not here to cherry pick anything, ofcourse i have already agree that atheism is disbelief, no doubt.
But how about the second definition which says
the doctrine that there is no deity?
So long that definition is there in the dictionary you can't dispute that atheism also involves doctrine

@the bolded, Point to me where the dictionary said there are beliefs in atheism. If you cannot then you're dishonest.

check the meaning of the word DOCTRINE used in the definition of atheism you will see the word beliefs.
No doubt, there are beliefs and doctrines in atheism too.

In summary, no one living in this life that does not have beliefs or even personal philosophy. This has thrown your concept of atheism as lack of belief into a jeopardy

Bacteriologist:
God you people are hopeless.

Obviously you didn't even read your own screenshot. In the picture it said DISBELIEF. How is disbelief a belief?

we already know that atheism is disbelief that's not what i meant.

Look at the encircled word in the other definition of atheism below: it means a set of beliefs or ideas that are thought.

That second definition suggest that there are beliefs and doctrines in atheism, i didn't write that dictionary i saw it and uploaded it.

What do you think?

LordReed:
First off, I don't know how many times this will be said to you, atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief in gods.

I'm not doubting that it lack of belief, I already know.
But does lack of belief implies lack of the mind?
Because by default, every minds must have beliefs.

Doctrine is not a word exclusive to religion. The military for example have doctrines. It doesn't connotes religion.

for the military to have doctrines, it means the military must have beliefs or philosophy. They cannot possibly lack beliefs, and the extent to which they believe is the extent to which they know.

Atheism has no objects of worship, no creed, no immutable holy text, no devotions, no trappings of religion whatsoever.

these sets of characteristics of religion lacking in atheism does not exclude atheism from the idea of what the word RELIGION implies in English dictionary.

The word RELIGION also encompasses beliefs order than beliefs that has to do with a god. For instance, one meaning of the word RELIGION encircled below.

Bacteriologist:
Fortunately for people who can use their head, assigning YOUR own meaning to words doesn't make those words automatically become what you want them to mean.

No!
I just uploaded a screen shot of a dictionary definition of atheism, I didn't define it that way. For that definition to come out that way in an English dictionary that means there was a consensus.

Saying atheism is a belief or doctrine does not truly mean that atheism is belief or doctrine. It only means that YOU FOOLISHLY love to define it so. Despite efforts of the sane world to save you from drowning in your own folly.

so, the sane word you are talking about did not see English dictionary?

Atheism is a lack of belief in all gods including yours. Need I say that again? A LACK.

A-theism: NO belief in a God. None. Nada. ZERO. Zilp. Zilch.

It's no more a belief than "Not swimming" is a hobby.
Or "off" is a TV channel.

I understand how difficult that may seem for you. Logic can be difficult. Especially for god apologists. I suggest you read it like 4-5 times. Take all the time you need.

before I come to this, I want to ask you a simple question. How do you define religion?

herlecks:
Acts 3:6
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Peter did not force God to do miracle, he knew who he was in Christ, he knew his authority over nature, that everything must obey him. Lack of true revelation makes believers belittle God and what he has done through Christ, I mean, right now in the eyes of God "creation is cleansed of every filth, sin, sickness and darkness" because He sees through the blood of His dear Son, if not he'd have wiped the universe off. Only those who acknowledge the victory of Christ and appropriate it for themselves will see result, not those who seat in their corner begging God for what He already gave.

2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

Through his divine power has given us how many things? All things! But, "but only through revelation/knowledge." This implies seeing spiritually is having naturally manifested. If you can't see the healing in the spirit realm, it will never come out, you will forever beg God to heal whereas He's also saying "I've already healed you."

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

By his stripes, wounds we are? NO! We WERE healed. Healing is a past tense. Go to the sick in your environment and heal them if you're convicted to do so, and stop playing the hypocrite, selfishly holding unto other men's blessings to protect your image.

what do you mean by protecting my image what's my business?

You remember David in the old testament praying aimlessly for his first child with Bathsheba to be healed?
That's how your prayer will end up, just come over and try

You think by the time you have ended up fooling yourself you can keep fooling people?

The the God will judge all of you, all these Nigerian pastors, that day is coming.

LordReed:
So to you Children's day is a religious ceremony?

Here are the difference!

A child is a person while atheism is a belief or doctrine as it applies to religion and it is not in anyway different from religion.

So, this religion called atheism has a day set aside for ceremonials too?
After, they will say they don't do religious things

I'm not wishin anyone bad.

Let's see the outcome of this one, we are all watching.

I knew these people concealed the truth only for them to give Nigerians the impression that we still have a president

Make them test that buhari again, na mistake them do.

My sister in the drama industry, this one tire me o

herlecks:
The day you encounter the power of God tangibly, then we can have a discussion.

of what use?

Rather, what is useful is the power Christ has given you to be useful to humanity.

Come and heal people at NCDC, stop the noise making. You will discover that you can't force God to do miracles he will not want to do

herlecks:
Miracles in bible era? Where in the bible did God promise to stop working miracle by His servants?

don't get me wrong!
God never asked his servants to stop working miracles, but miracles should come in only when the situation is beyond human control.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains(carry out miracles), and have not charity, I AM NOTHING

Now, imagine a situation where someone who is infected with corona virus who needs vaccine or a viral drug for him to be cured and all you could deliver as charity to help the person is prayer or miracle?
In a world where people are carrying out science researches to develop vaccines and all you could offer is prayer ?
You people are presenting Christianity in a way that is ridiculous, because as far as I'm concern Christ teaches us to love one another and not to be puffed up with signs and wonders

The same reason why they needed miracle, you all need it today for that same reason.

and what is that same reason can you tell us?

There's so much error and biblical misinterpretations everywhere. Miracles are a shadow of things to come? Who taught you people these jargons you're saying? Miracles shadow? Why did God allow miracles then? Was there no wisdom then?

what you should understand is, the only thing that remains constant without change in this life is time,
every other thing changes over time. Change is inevitable.
Miracles was trendy 2000 years ago at the time Jesus died and resurrected but today love/charity as come to stay, people don't care about your miracles, what they want is what you can offer to solve their immediate problems.
The world has become vast with knowledge and understanding and if you lacking in knowledge your miracles are of no use

The least among them would be equal to the most knowledgeable and wise in our time

you say what?
You just talking you don't know what you are saying.
Paul suffered a terminal sickness among them who was wise enough to cure him?
Was Paul revelation include science, medicine, technology, computer, aeroplanes and cars?
My dad will say a thing i respected him so much, I'm sending you to school today because i want you to grow up and become better than me who never had the opportunity to have further education.

If there diffences in knowledge that exist between a father and his son today how much more with someone who lives 2000 years ago in primitive world of little or no education?

In the physical sense, there is no way someone who lived 2000 years will be better than anyone living in this era, it's not possible.
Jesus even said the least person in God's kingdom is greater than John the Baptist including all the prophets of the old era.

So you see, mankind is growing in knowledge and understanding from one era to another.

There is a common verse everyone misinterprets to justify their gross confusion, this one

1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Has knowledge vanished? If knowledge has vanished then we are all fools knowing nothing. But do you know something? If you know something that means the gifts, power and offices of the spirit are very much alive today, since knowledge has not ceased. But if knowledge has ceased, that implies there are no more gifts.

and the same way knowledge can disappear that's how the gift of miracles can disappear too.

But along human history, the more humans are becoming knowledgeable the tendency that miracles will occur has reduced.
This is how God wanted it.

Note that Adam and Eve did not perform any miracle from the beginning neither was there any situation that causes God to help them in a miraculous way.

What Paul is saying here is that in eternity there will be no need for prophecy since all things will be revealed, no need for tongues since our communication will be perfectly spiritual, no need for our incomplete knowledge for the full revelation of God we will have up there. These things fail, they end, they are not needed in heaven. That's what he is saying.

since you have known these things why then are you keen of miracles, why don't you seek knowledge?

Ephesians 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Are you saints perfect yet? Has the work of ministry of the saints ceased? Have we all come to the unity of faith with all the errors you people believe and call doctrine? What revelation of the Son of God do you have? Probably none. And you're saying you don't need miracle? You don't need the offices? They all ceased? This is a deception of the devil to shut you out and cut you off of a vital supply from these governmental roles. There are things that must flow from Christ who is the Head into the apostle, prophet, teacher, evangelist, pastor that must flow into your life. The kingdom of God is full of orders. God won't break His spiritual system for anyone's sake. Rebels in the body will not come under authority, hence receive attacks here and there.

Hello!

Being apostle, preacher, pastor, prophet isn't bad.
If you have the gift of miracle save it to situations that are beyond human control, when that kind of situation comes you will see God working wonders through you.

But a situation like covid-19 where vaccines are needed and you say you want to perform miracle, it shows how ignorant and insensitive to the plight of the people infected.

You think health issue is childs play?

herlecks:
The Only Solution To The Virus



—Let us ask you, dear reader, what would the apostles have done concerning this virus if this had happened in their time? You know what they would!

—It is quite baffling to see so called believers shivering for fear of a virus, this proves they have not been completely honest with themselves concerning their relationship with God.

—Even leaders in the church are completely lost concerning this matter. Why aren't our healing ministries doing anything about this? This virus exposes a lot of us.

—This season which we have just entered is a season of the test of genuineness of faith for every believer. If you have been panicking so far you are not a true believer. A true believer will react as Jesus would. How would Jesus have reacted? Run? Fear? Shiver? Hide? Your Christianity is a sham!

—True believers firstly have no attachment to this world, secondly are ready to depart this world any time, however have no fear.

—False or self proclaimed believers are everywhere panicking, making their chicken-heartedness known by consistently consoling themselves with many biblical verses and creating many online posts. We must repent! We mock our God by this act, we mock His ability to heal merely a sickness. The CREATOR GOD! Believers are mocking God!

—They honour Him with their lips, but their hearts? Far from Him! Many claim He can heal, but deep within they don't really believe this. Their mouths would speak a thing, their hearts say otherwise. This is the height of hypocrisy!

—In truth, you have read countless books by renowned men of God and past generals, what have you done with the knowledge garnered? Nothing. We lack God, we are full of religion and shows and many doctrines to exploit the poor. Fakes.

—Indeed we have healed many sicknesses, can't the same power heal this virus? Lest our healing gifts are merely a deception. Is God's power weak against this one?

—We all claim the power of God as our shield, where is that power now? We are all a fake. This is how God views us, we are fakes. We have been tried, tested and declared officially fakes! Fake believers. Fake leaders. Fake confessions. Fake praises and adoration towards God. Fake trust in God. This virus has revealed the true state of our hearts. We must repent. We must return to genuineness!

—The church has lost its purpose, it is no longer the light of the world. Believers no longer see themselves as the solution to the world's crisis. If the light of the world flees from the world and it's sicknesses, surely the world is in trouble. Why should the doctor flee from the patient because he is sick? We are the cure to the world's crisis! This is how God sees us! What are we doing? We have fallen! We are fakes!

—The government now closes the worship centres because we have not demonstrated to the world how Christ and His power are real, we've all been about getting the seeds sown, exploiting the gullible and fabricating doctrines that makes us comfortable in our little sins.

—How did the government have the audacity to exercise such rulership over God's church? Remember, the apostles died for going against the government of their time. When the church begins to bend toward the dictates of the world's system, then we must be aware we have deserted the spiritual orders of God. God and state never agrees because its system is contrary to God, it has never happened.

—How did this virus began? Mind you, this was carefully orchestrated. The release of this virus is strategic. This virus came by the enemy's Dunamis (Violence), power, virtue. Every sickness has its origin in the dark kingdom. If you don't acknowledge that most sickness is demonic in origin you will never know freedom.

—Every sickness must find a ground (sin) in your life before it lands upon you. This is a spiritual principle. Nothing touches your life unless you open the door. If you have been walking in sin, confess and acknowledge them one by one before God. Cleanse them by the blood and never return to them. Only those who are holy unto God will not be touched by even the most insignificant sickness.

—There is no other solution to this virus, brethren, apart from the Exousia (authority of God). If any man will receive knowledge to create a vaccine that eradicates the virus, it must still be by the Exousia. The knowledge and power to create is with God.

—The moment you decided to follow and live for Jesus, that second you received a share of Christ's Exousia (authority). Only authority cancels out darkness, only authority cancels out Dunamis (power). You have a share of Christ's Exousia.

—Exousia increases as a result of your conformity to the life, holiness of Christ. The more holy and righteous you become, the more Exousia Christ releases unto you. This proves why even our religious leaders are scared of this virus, they have little authority because their lifestyle is sinful, they know if they try to confront the virus directly they will fail, they are unclean and sinful, ministry is business for these thieves who have appointed themselves, but the righteous will be bold as a lion.

—If you have not been walking in holiness and righteousness, you can never escape sickness or get healed from it directly by God's power. If you have a ground of sin, sickness will land on it by agency of demonic spirits. Confess your sins, we must always confess our sins to God before we run to him asking for things. Consecrate yourself, submit to Christ, stop sinning.

—Believer, exercise your authority in Christ over this virus. Viruses are entities, command them out. Command sickness out, they hear the words of Christ through your mouth, command don't beg sickness or demon, command! Declare that demon or virus must not touch you! Declare it must die if it touches your skin! Command! Command! You will have a testimony.

there is no point coming to a faceless forum like NL and spill rubbish talk.
Come to Lagos and ask where the National Center for Diseases Control(NCDC) is. There are about 28 cases of covid-19 infected persons lying on their sick bed, come and exercise your authority in Christ here.

And let this be known to you that God allowed miracles you read in bible era for reasons, miracles were shadow of things to come, wisdom is the real thing.

Why will you think of a canal thing like fone when you are under the anointing? it shows you are canally minded.

Please keep your brain at home next time when you are coming to church.

This is the best thing to do!
It's just simply common sense

Now i know that this Fatoyinbo of a guy is not OK,Both him and the FCT minister. Accept the story isn't true

You say what?

psucc:
modified

ok

Ladylite:
Unku See, is it your GOING?

but we all are suffering the negative effects of the GOING together in this country that is life for you. You do one wrong thing , it affects the next person who didn't do anything
For instance, go to Lagos Ibadan express road today and see how the road is free all because covid-19 has forced people to do the right thing.
Thank God o .

Ok are u ready to work from home, school from home? But groceries from HOME?
I can go on and on

there are good reasons to go to work and buy groceries away from home.

As blind as you are, you forget that soon you go tire.... U will miss being in the midst of people. You will become hostile and unsociable,

that is wrong!
I can choose to socialise with people else where order than church.
In the office, some relaxation centres,gyms, cinemas and even game reserves. There are good people to meet on daily basis, not only in church.

As blind as you are, you forget that soon you go tire.... U will miss being in the midst of people.

you mean, the primary reason why one should go to church is to be in midst of people?
If that is what you are saying then you are right, I think this should be the only good reason.

Because, all those crap people are saying they go to church to worship God or they want to please God and make heaven as if God himself recommend church for their salvation isn't good reason at all, it is sign of big ignorance.

To me, I do not totally write off church, i go once a while, meet old friends, we talk, gist and laugh and, off i go!

But too much church going is bad, too much of everything is bad, that's all I'm saying.
You will be used for free

Mixedfraction:
Religion aside, what good have you done for your compound, community, state and country?
Only failures looking for sources to attribute their failures to, would write such crap as u did..

was speaking against the Pharisees and the errors of their religion makes Jesus a failure?

Keep committing the fallacy of jumping away from the real issue by saying religion aside, neglecting the message and attacking the messenger you don't know anything about, ofcourse it is typical of the primitive African mindset you are displaying, I'm not wondered

Kdon2:
That is if something stops you not when you dont have hinderance. Say something better please.

ok,
Until something stops you?

Good one

Ladylite:
You forget the internet.

Churches will hold services and have more online members without physical presence. And it will be massive.

Stop being paranoid and calling it freedom. There is God.

why you dey vex now?
Is it not much more better to use your fone and stream online a live message rather than stressing yourself going through the traffic from ikorodu to yaba or from alakpere ketu to ogun state camp just to listen to that same message?

Why are Nigerians stressing themselves like this?

Many Christians especially those claiming to be born again feels if a Sunday passes and they don't go to church it's as if they have, sinned against God

What a ridiculous mindset, why will pastors not become rich and fly private jets everywhere?

I believe that God allows covid-19 partly in order to teach such ridiculous Christians that churches are never his temple, rather you yourselves are the true temple of the living God, and pastors are exploiting you people.
But very few will still learn and understand that

In Nigeria for example, you will agree with me that religions(Christianity, Islam, African traditional religions and traditions) have created more problems than solutions to the problems of the people.

Take a look at a thread i created far back October 2015

https://www.nairaland.com/2673817/overcome-church-going-free-today#39109732


Please stay at home, nor be by force

lepasharon:
I agree. You can still be educated without a degree. Just read and read.

Our people don't read enough

that's the point!
a person who doesn't read can easily be manipulated by religion and tradition

psucc:
I am disappeared b the actions of our fathers of tai h in Nigeria by calling of ch rich progeams over for are of COVID-19

T

Ewo!, disappeared?

Bojack:
Guy why

how many poor Nigerians can afford Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard?
You see the the reason why the ignorance will continue?

Two things are killing Nigeria and Africa.
1. Tradition
2. Religion

Only quality education can emancipate us, and our government are not doing enough to restructure education in Africa.

You go school you see same lecturers teaching us having the same African mentality and approach to religion

Where is the hope?

Funaki:
It's very hard to break free from religion.

it takes education to break free from religion. Not the kind of education UI, OAU, ABU or UNN can offer, but the kind of education obtainable from Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, etc

HellVictorinho:
The spread of Covid-19 is a matter that matters to every human twist!!!!!!!!!

ok,
I thought you meant rapture or end time to be what matters