₦airaland Forum

Tosinex:
The thief on the cross believed
and repented in his dying hour,

People are becoming educated faster than you think.
If you take this kind of concept and preach gospel to educated unbelievers they will simply look at you and say what is this one saying?
you can't use that to deceive people anylonger.
Find out the meaning of the word repent in your English dictionary, it means

to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life

Someone who is about to die has no such opportunity to live again and dedicate his life to turn around or are you thinking that the man dedicated his life on the cross?

Tosinex:
so from your explanation now, even after receiving Christ, the boko haram, the isis, prostitute, the adulterer and common thief, that died in their sin will all make heaven, right!

mmgbaaaam!!!!
And that is grace!
And that explains why the thief who was crucified with Christ was justified. Not because he was not guilty of the crime but because he believed Christ at his dying moment.

But what does this tells us?
That we should continue in sin because there is grace?
God forbid !

It is not left for us to use our minds to avoid sin.

ABCthings:
Wrong again.We are saved by grace through faith and salvation we must continue to abide in Christ or we'll cut off.

may be you have not yet separated salvation from repentance that's why you are not still understanding.
To abide is Christ isn't the same as being a good christian that's what you should know.

Tosinex:
Yes They have been saved but have they accepted that they are saved!(acceptance, confession to salvation) Even if they accept why are they still walking in the path of damnation

yes,they are working in the part of damnation. Damnation in the sense that what they are doing have their consequences which they will suffer hear on this earth but that does not mean they will not be saved into eternal life through Christ when they die,i have explained that before.

that leads to hell in the spiritual.

the damnation they will suffer here on this earth as a result of their sin cannot lead them to heal in the spiritual.There is no connectivity between the spiritual and the physical in that aspect, it's not possible. Otherwise, Christ didn't come to die.

So, they are saved inspite their sin simply because they have accepted Christ.

OkCornel:
Concerning homosexuality, there was something in the law against it. It's somewhere in Leviticus or so. I'll look for the reference and bring it here...

thanks!
I want to see it too, it may be in Leviticus

alBHAGDADI:
You just said nothing to justify your stance that tithing is not biblical.

exactly, I know that.

Yes, tithing is fading away because people are no longer tithing, according to you. That doesn't mean it has stopped being the commandment of God.

we all read in the bible that it was commandment for the Jewish tribe. Now, there were several other tribes of the gentiles which tithing was never a commandment to them. So there is no point generalising that because one law was for the Jews therefore it should be for the gentiles.

Tithing is not the only commandment of God that you should say is fading away.

very true

The commandment against homosexuality is also fading away.

was there any such commandment against homosexuality given to the Jews in the old testament?
I didn't see that?

Anyway, homosexuality isn't good enough analogy to make in relation to tithing as it is a personal sin which only affect the people practicing it unlike tithing which affects a large number of Christians negatively in such a way that they are ignorant of the negative effect thinking they are being favoured.

But in all honesty, they are not fading away. They are just no longer being obeyed by people anymore.

http://richardjohnbr..com/2018/02/resisting-tithes.html?m=1, and read the focused screen shot below

Tithing was abolished in England and whales and most developed and educated nations a long time ago, it is gradually creaping into Africa because Africans are gradually becoming educated and have started becoming inquisitive, example is daddy freeze.

So, because Western Nations no longer obey the law against homosexuality, it now means it is no longer a commandment of God?

I have said it, there is no analogy between tithing and homosexuality based on how they affect people. Your question is like saying because the western nations no longer conducting Jewish sacrifices of the old testament it now means sacrifices was not God's law to the Jews in old testament?

Can you see the flaws in your reasoning?

there are no flaws, think over it again.

You also foolishly claim that no doctrine in Christianity is permanent. What a shameless person you are to call yourself a Christian

there is no point committing ad hominem focus on the issue we are talking not me.

when Jesus himself said no jot shall pass away from the law until all be fulfilled.

there you go again misunderstanding Jesus statement.
The jews have paid their tithes and conducted their sacrifices in the old testament,those laws have already been fulfilled in the old testament therefore Jesus was right saying no law shall pass away until they are fulfilled. but the good thing today is, Christ has come to make these laws obsolete, that means they are of no use anymore. Hebrews 8:13

All doctrines shall remain regardless of whether people over them or not.

lets see how long you will last on this fight you are fighting Christ for some financial benefits of distorting fellow Christians in church.

alBHAGDADI:
I get angry when people say we are no longer under the mosaic law anymore. They make it sound as if we were under the laws of Moses before. No we have always been under the laws of God.

Now, you saw we are no longer under the mosaic law. Why not go and read Leviticus 18 and make sure you break all the laws written there. Make sure you have sex with your mother, sister, daughter and aunt, since you are no longer under the mosaic law.

Let me show you that you are actually the one who doesn't read his Bible, you only followed what you read on the internet.

Most of those against tithing often love to say it has been replaced with free-will giving in the new testament. Ask them to show you where such is written that it has been a replaced, they got mute. Yes, the New Testament does talk about free-will giving as seen below

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give ; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Acts 4:34-35 (KJV)
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


But is free-will giving something that's only new to the New Testament? No, because it also existed in the Old Testament.

Exodus 36:3-5 (KJV)
And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.


As seen above, the people brought freewill offerings to the house of God in the days of Moses to the point that Moses had to command then to stop because the house of God had already gotten more than enough.

Yet, people tend to make it seem like freewill givings is a new testament thing. Look, Jesus commanded tithing in Mathew 23:23. In that verses he had the perfect opportunity to put an end to it, but instead he endorsed it.

You can. chose to not pay your tithe, but going about preaching against it is like praying for double punishment.

you know the problem about you people?
You fail to subject your scriptures under reasoning when you read. Subjecting scriptures under reasoning is what daddy freeze has done to some extent and that is what all the daddy GO's supporting tithing has failed to do.

Now let me remind you of this : nothing doctrine is permanent in Christianity. The time has come when tithing will fade away, the time has come when churches will stop distorting money from people in the name of tithing and seed sowing, ofcourse you know that in developed nations currenty nobody is talking about tithing anymore, even the church young people don't go anymore. What makes you think Africa will remain different in the coming times?

People are getting knowledge and understanding everyday and they are going towards the right direction. Tithing is backward direction which is also gradually fading away among the new generation African churches let the old generation keep it up they will soon become old and die off like some Israelites who died old in the wilderness for 40 years not reaching the promise land, I am sure you don't want to be part of that.

Tosinex:
it has everything to do with repentance. Christ died for all, he died for the boko haram guys, the ISIS, down to the prostitutes and the common thief, but not all comes to repentance and that's why they ended up in hell.

yes, Christ died for them all but not all of them have accepted Christ. Anyone of them who have accepted Christ though they continue with their prostitution, boko haram, ISIS or whatever atrocities, they are saved. That is the good news of the gospel.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

Understand this : they are saved spiritually but not physically, because they will all face the consequences of their boko haram, ISIS or prostitution here on this physical earth.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

That means, though we are saved but our salvation cannot save us from the consequences of our sin when we sin willfully.

So, our salvation has nothing to do with whether we repent or not.

TOSIN116:
where did you get this from?
I believe we are saved by grace but not this type. This is totally wong.

what type?
Do you understand what i am saying at all?

I am equally saying we are saved by grace and not by works, only that i am not putting it in your African type, i am applying it to reality for the op to understand.

Have you ever give gifts to people without taking anything in return?
That is the kind of gift Christ gave to us as salvation. He never wanted us to work for it or pay back anything.
But the only type of love you Africans know is the one you will give in one hand and collect something in return at the other hand(the poverty mindset). That is not grace.

Check this

Tosinex:
spiritual death

now you see that the justification to eternal life is spiritual, it has nothing to do with repentance which is physical.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

So, spirit and flesh have nothing to do with each other just like salvation into eternal life(which is spiritual justification) has nothing to do with repentance.

So, the reason why those scriptures you quoted earlier emphasizes repentance is for us to attain physical justification here on this earth and not for us to attain eternal life.

No amount of good thing you do can give you eternal life. Eternal life is freely given to us through Christ whether we repent or not.

OpenYourEyes1:
Saved from total destruction or second death.

good!
Is the total destruction or second death spiritual death or physical death?

OpenYourEyes1:
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Romans 3:28 - 31

you have explained it well.

Another question is, what are we saved from?

OpenYourEyes1:
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” — Revelation 21:8

"Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”—Luke 5:31-32


"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”— Matthew 4:17


"He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. "— Luke 24:46-48


" Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life"—Revelation 21:27

"For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."— Matthew 21:32

"So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them" — Luke 17:3


"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." —Matthew 3:8


"God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins." — Acts 5:31

how will you explain this scripture?

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law(without repentance)?

LordReed:
Why should I accept it as proof?

you have not seen it yet you have already decided you are not going to accept it. There is no point showing you then

Do you accept the Quran as proof?

ofcourse yes, quran is one of the proof

[
Do you accept the Egyptian book of the dead as proof?

I have not heard about that before

budaatum:
So you are just doing what you accused others of doing by "hastily generalising" based on your limited view?

no,

My view is my view, they have their view and we should steak to our own different views which can never be generalized, that's why i remain neutral in their conversation. Now, my action is never hasty generalization.

But shame is the fact that even your own religious book you seem to not have read or understood or you would not have bothered opening this twig of a thread without first deforesting your own eyes!

I have explained what i meant by hasty generalization and how it applies, there is no twig there.

If a person wants to "ask sincere questions" about Christianity, would you not tell them to read the Bible? If you would, how can you possibly "ask sincere questions" about Islam and not read the Quran?

that's the point I'm making.

Did you in fact "ask sincere questions" about atheists before you opened this thread in which you "countered" what you presumed to be their beliefs?!

The point about the thread isn't that atheists are fallacious believing that God do not exist, rather the fallacy comes when they comit hasty generalization in other to prove their point, i mean they can choose to make sound argument avoiding the fallacy, that will be Ok.
i have long interacted with atheists. Some of them in reality are my good friends because they do not hastily generalize that all Christians cannot prove that God do exist .

Christ did say, "do not live by bread alone or you will be malnourished". He obviously did not lie!

That's my guy, budaatum

But let's reason it, is there any other thing that can nourish the physical body other than food?
I'm just trying to understand you.

budaatum:
What's the point of reading the Bible if one can't do what one reads in it? Is the above not a "hasty generalization", and a case of the forest in one's own eye?

atleast we can still try to do little of what we can, it's isn't hasty generalization.

Why can an atheist "not possibly read the Bible"?

it's just simply natural not to read holy books belonging to religions other than yours. For instance, I'm a Christian, naturally I'm not interested in reading the Quran so i will have no clue of what Muslims are saying about the Quran except i ask sincere questions and not countering them of their beliefs.
But incase i am not interested at all, then i will remain silent not countering them still.

LordReed:
1. Please go ahead and provide evidence for your god.

2. How you able to say anything categorically about your god? And why is making inference from what you say about your god wrong?

the evidence is in the bible, do you want to see it?

falcon01:
who told you am an atheist ?

did I say you are an atheist? Are you for real or some kinda fake..

you cant answer simple question..

keep jumping into conclusion

you'll be going roun and round ... thats why I dont engage un yhis kinda questions I know there is no answer

my guy you don't know anything, keep your question to yourself.

falcon01:
[s][so mixing big big words and manipulating grammars for your mind you think you are making sex? atheis Ask you for proof for mor tyan thousand years you cant give single you are just doing corner corner[/s]

another fallacy called attacking the personality rather than asking question

Next

Don't mind this Ghana man.
He has mis understood Luke 6:29 and say from his own view that it is senseless

1. The fallacy of hasty generalization
hasty generalization is a conclusion that because most people in a class are wrong, therefore everyone in that same class must be wrong. Atheists concludes that because most christians cannot prove the existence of God, therefore all Christians cannot prove the existence of God.

2.. Non-conformation to law of identity fallacy the law of identity explains that the identity anything is nothing but that identity, that if the identity of a thing is not known one cannot say anything categorically about that thing.

If God truly exist, then there is nothing else but God truly exist.That if the existence of God is not known to the first person, then he cannot say anything categorically about it. Meaning, he cannot argue anything until he is 100% certain of his position.
Likewise, if God truly do not exist, then there is nothing else but God truly do not exist. That if the non existence of God is not known to the second person, then he cannot say anything categorically about it. Meaning, he cannot argue anything until he is 100% certain of his position.

Having established that, the first person is the atheist and the second person is the theist(as in a Christian who has read bible and is 100% certain of God existence)

1. The second person has read the bible , the first person is an atheist and not a Christian therefore he cannot possibly read the bible.
2. Because the second person has a cognitive understanding of the bible, therefore he is 100% sure of God's existence and can therefore say something categorically about it, and because the first person has not read the bible therefore, he is not 100% sure of his position that God do not exist therefore cannot say anything categorically about it .

Think about it

Op, you are very much on point.

However, there are two fallacies commonly noticed among atheists.

1. The fallacy of hasty generalization hasty generalization is a conclusion that because most people in a class are wrong, therefore everyone in that same class must be wrong. Atheists concludes that because most christians cannot prove the existence of God, therefore all Christians cannot prove the existence of God.

2.. Non-conformation to law of identity fallacy the law of identity explains that the identity anything is nothing but that identity, that if the identity of a thing is not known one cannot say anything categorically about that thing.

If God truly exist, then there is nothing else but God truly exist.That if the existence of God is not known to the first person, then he cannot say anything categorically about it. Meaning, he cannot argue anything until he is 100% certain of his position.
Likewise, if God truly do not exist, then there is nothing else but God truly do not exist. That if the non existence of God is not known to the second person, then he cannot say anything categorically about it. Meaning, he cannot argue anything until he is 100% certain of his position.

Having established that, the first person is the atheist and the second person is the theist(as in a Christian who has read bible and is 100% certain of God existence)

1. The second person has read the bible , the first person is an atheist and not a Christian therefore he cannot possibly read the bible.
2. Because the second person has a cognitive understanding of the bible, therefore he is 100% sure of God's existence and can therefore say something categorically about it, and because the first person has not read the bible therefore, he is not 100% sure of his position that God do not exist therefore cannot say anything categorically about it .

My guy tithe was for priests or pastors and not for developmental projects, that's why your pastors are eating the money.

pressplay411:
Both especially hell.

in that case, you are mixing up things and there is no way you can arive at the truth by mixing up things .

See,

James 2:20 confirms that abraham was justified by works not just faith.

Romans 3:28 concludes that we are justified by faith and not by works

Looking at the two scriptures they seems contradictory isnt it?
The question about this scriptures is what i asked you.
What are we saved from? And you said it is both.

What justifies abraham(man) in james 2:20?
Ofcourse it is works.
What justifies man in Romans 3:28, ofcourse it is faith in christ.

Therefore it can never be both as you have said because faith in christ and works are two different things, faith justifies man into eternal life(salvation from death. Death is what we are saved from) while works do not justifies man into eternal but justifies him on this earth.

Think about it.

Saved from what?

Is it saved from the consequences of the sin we commit or saved from going to hell for not believing in christ?

Lets come from there

Preciousgirl:
A Christian who knows the truth but keeps failing in resisting sin. Is there any hope for such? Or will God give up on such because of his constant disobedience?

christ died for us even when we are yet sinners.

There is nothing like God giving up ,but that does not stop the sinner from getting the kama in this life up to his fourth generation depending on the magnitude of sin he has committed

Yes

Rossikk:
This man should go and sit down somewhere nah... abi what is this?

The country has moved on abeg..

will you shut up there before i..

Which country do move on?

lexy2014:
My dear, I still don't no d point u are trying to make. If u dont understand d comment i made, am really sorry. I can't help u. Tnx

mteeeeew!

lexy2014:
What has all this got 2do with d comment I made? Am I d OP? If u feel d OP is writing propaganda, y not take it up with him/her?

my guy see your comment and i quote you.

Chigbundu isn't d pastor of Word of life bible church. That is oritsejafors church and its in warri. He is d pastor of voice of freedom Benin. Blogger i no ur pride wont let u acknowledge& correct ur blunder but always get ur facts right b4 coming out with a story

You dey claim say the op dey make blunder because you think say the chigbundu you know suppose to dey bini not warri. And i dey tell you say though chigbundu dey bini, nothing fit stop am from going to warri go preach.

You think people dumb?
We understand wetin una de rite o.

Infact, i am out.

The op is right you are wrong, simple

lexy2014:
I don't c d correlation with what u wrote with d comment I made. So pls read my comment again so u can make a more informed contribution 2d discussion

how you go see the colerration ..
I mean, cole..r
Abi colera, this english sef

where you dey speak too much oyingbo?

Ok, forget the other one about yoruba were i talk.
Wetin i dey tell you be say chigbundun or wetin una dey call am fit go preach for any shursh for warri make people sow seed na!
So, this one were you dey deny say the op nor be chigbundu na propaganda, wintch way sef?