₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
So your zombie God decided that slavery is acceptable while eating crayfish is an abomination. LMAO!

when i say some of you have mental problem, this is a clear confirmation

Now, dont quote me again!
I dont have time for mad people, go check yourself.

Atheists were suppose to be intelligent, you are not one

tunderay:
Why not? is computer village not a market? As far as its a market , there must be iyaloja . I wonder why people are making a mountain out of the issue, especially the people from the East. The head of the market before the installation of this iyaloja was a Yoruba man, its not that an Igbo man will be installed as the head , so why the fuss?

so why the sudden change from a yoruba man to iyaloja?

What is the full meaning of iyaloja, it sounds like a woman who has a child called Loja who sells pepper and maggi, rather than computer technology

Bush atheist who do not think that bible was written at the time when human slavery was prevalent in most parts of the world

HigherEd:
Maybe, maybe not.

is that what your answer is?

Ask any fraudstar, it takes intelligence to defraud many people such that they dont know that they are being defrauded

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. You didn't understand what i meant.

But its ok now. Nevermind

ok

And how do you respond to the bolded?

God only create everything we see. After which, he is not in control or predestined over anything except a situation arises when there is need for him to do so.

Any such situation are not common this modern day, therefore freewill supercedes .
Therefore the believe that everything have already been decided by God is false.

HigherEd:
But he is intellectually sound - there you have it.

It takes an intelligent person to write and sell over 10 million books in his life time(apart from pirated copy)

It takes an intelligent person to attract loyal church members from Ikoyi, Lekki, Ajah to join him in worship in Ota, Ogun state(a place with bad roads)despite tons of awesome, amazing churches like(daystar, house on the rock, elevation) along the way.

It takes an intelligent man to be one of the top 10 most prominent clerics in a country with a crowded field of about 200,000 clerics.

It takes an intelligent person to gather 400,000 worshippers under tutelage. If you say the Church is a business, then you must agree with me that one person gathering 400,000 customers in any sector takes a large chunk of the market share.

It takes an intelligent person to provide his church city with 24/7 light since 1999. A feat your govt has not been able to achieve for its own Nation's capital.

It takes an intelligent man to have created a university barely 20 years of age, now highly rated than over 70 years old University of Ghana and even UI.

You still want more

it also takes intelligence to do yahoo yes or no?

Like many nigerians ,This man only get money, but he is intellectually....

Make i stop there

A reasonable person will complete my statement for himself

XxSabrinaxX:
Well, the bolded shows that the term "prayer" has many definitions and i'm sorry to say, but the general understanding by the public of the word "prayer" is not the same as that of your post.

very true!

A simple Google search will reveal that most definitions of the word include the recognition of a deity.

that is because the lay man is yet to see the possibility that it may include an ernest request or wish againt the thought that it is mere the recognition and making requests from deity.

Hope you aren't planning on descending to special pleading here...

there is nothing special in discovering new things

And i'm assuming you're a theist, so what do you think is the theists' general consensus on Free Will?

the question is,what should be the theists general consensus on free will?
I am sure that many theists are yet to get this whole thing right, hence you atheists can beat them to their argument for now, pending on when they will start to accept reality

XxSabrinaxX:
NO

As i understand it, praying involves the acknowledgement of a deity

merriam webster english dictionary put one of it definition this way : An ernest request or wish. So, prayer does not necessarily involve acknowledgement of deity.
Also, in a court of law, when the judge demands a person to say his prayer, he does not need your deity.

So where does Free Will come in?

it says the believe that..
Which means its a school of thought, not necessary a theist thing

XxSabrinaxX:
Prayer is functionally useless. Am glad even you admits that.

do you agree that when you wish or even desired a thing, you have prayed?

However i take issue with the bolded. What is your understanding of the word "Predestination?"

the believe that anything that will happen has already been decided by fate or God

Yes,

Jones4190:
Cristiano Ronaldo Is Worth a Staggering $400 Million. while oyedepo worth $150 million

minus tithe and offering money oyedepo worth $20

C. Ronaldo pay tax too ,but oyedepo dont pay

engineerboat:
That you're olodo

not just olodo, he is a well known APC and buhari supporter on nairaland thats why it is not suprise he is talking out of sentiment.

Check

Why I Will Vote Buhari Again And Again. by - Politics - Nairaland

TruthinAction:
Sometimes one can be very sincere on the points you make and you can also be sincerely wrong. Rapture will take place. If you don't believe in it, you will certainly be left behind. The Scripture is so clear on it but you don't want to accept it because you have made up your mind to take a stand. If you don't understand what caught up means, please go back to school and read English. Apostle Paul even added that we will meet him in the air and you still doubt it. This is the height of insincerity. May God open your eyes as you read more in Jesus name.

ok, i hear you. can we end this now?

God bless you for contributing your opinion, we dont need to agree on the same doctrine to be christians so long we both believe that Jesus is the christ you are still a brother and nothing will take you to hell fire as far as i understand it.
Thanks

2 peter 3: 8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends:[b]With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day[/]

That is Evolution.

It follows that a day to God isnt 24 hours, infact a day can be several human years to God.

So when scriptures says it took God 7 days to complete creation it may be referring several millions of years 24 hours which is enough period for simple organisms to evolve to higher ones, i am just saying.

But rapture?
That one is nowhere to be found in bible, the ancient roman catholic church postulated the doctrine they will soon debunk it just like the way they have now dissociated themselves from their previous belief that the earth was flat and not spherical.

People only remember jesus when they have problems

Yes, God do not answer prayers, this explains why a lot of people think that God do not exist.

He created the world for free will and allows
Determination to rule only when necessary.

Do you go to church or pray in order to have your prayers answered?
That is not necessary
Infact a lot of atheists do not pray, but they have fortune in life even more than christians who pray.

We all read in the bible how God answered prayers in the old but does that mean he is in the business of answering prayers till this modern day?

If you think that way then you are being scammed.
Scammed by your pastors ,
Scammed by the church.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

What time was this ignorance?
The time of bible days we read about great miracles from God (,especially old testament times)
What time is the time of knowledge?
The time of knowledge is today.

Now look it this way,
Two soccer teems played a football match, the better teem wins even though the one that loose gathered and pray,That tells you that God do not answer prayer

A student who dont read his books but keep praying will fail, because God do not answer prayers.

Nigerians go to church but their economy is bad and they keep suffering ,because God do not answer prayers

power50:
If you own a church, list it on Nigerian church directory https://www.naijachurches.com.ng/

the name of my church is IF YOU DONT PAY TITHE YOU ARE AT YOUR RISK OF POVERTY.

PLease help me list it

petra1:
Enoch was raptured
Elijah was raptured
Jesus was raptured
And there will be other futuristic raptures

it does not follow that way

Where address?

TruthinAction:
go ahead

did you just use the word go ahead?

You are using it out of your own personal understanding, i am seeing that for the first time, this tells me that even you can formulate words to suit yourself.

You see the truth and twist it to your own benefit.

look my friend, i do not have anything to benefit in all these, thank God i dont know you and you dont know me. I dont care to know you, how then do i benefit if you eventually see things from my angle?
Whether you agree with me or not it does not change my opinion. You are adult you have your opinion, i have my own.
Everyone have the right to read and understand this bible and apply it in his or her own personal life the way they want it, who cares?
The only difference is, some will be foolish while the few others who are getting it right will be wise, yet we are all the same christian whether you like it or not.

Repent fast before it is too late

repent that i steal or or did any evil?
You people are fun of using terms ignorantly

False teachers will go to hell. I am sure you are also in the school of thought of those who believe there is no hell.

i saw hell in the bible, why should i deny that there is hell?
Do i look like Jehovah witness?

See, whether you like it or not, no matter how long lies reign on earth one day, truth will always find it way out.
We have a vast number of christians worldwide believing in lies, you all make Jesus a liar to the world when he said he is coming quickly.

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly Amen. Even so, come, Lord
Jesus

This over 2000 years now, is over 2000 years quickly?

The Jesus christ i know keep his words, he fixes time for fulfillment and fulfill his words at the exact time, no longitivity or uncertainty

Do you know how many christians have waited for rapture and became frustrated that they now became atheists because the thing did not add up?

Surely, this is a very wicked generation of christians and God will surely punish you all for making Jesus a liar

You punishment is sure and your judgment will come.

you are a nigerian isnt it?
The economic situation in your country currently is bad became of the lack of comprehensive capacity of nigerians to understand anything at all, talkless of bible.
Because of your lack of understanding, you run from pastor to pastor, from church to church. that is enough punishment for you people for not taking education very seriously

There is a saying that if you want to hide any information from a black man write it in a book.
The bible was writen in a book and gave to primitive africans by missionaries who were never educated enough to understand the content of it, they came to preach christianity in africa.
Now guess what? The british have their version of christianity while africans have their own differently.Today, England is far developed while africa is nowhere.

I am talking with deep anger in my spirit

you have not seen anything yet

That anger will consume you for nothing

that people like you still exist just to subvert the truth of God's word.

you know the truth and people in your nation are wallowing in ignorance and poverty since 1960?

Look my friend, dont quote me again o

TruthinAction:
1st Thessalonians 4:14-16.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice the capitalized words. They speak for themselves.

no dey dont,
They dont speak independently for themselves. No scripture in the bible independently speak for itself, you have to relate it with other scriptures.
you have to understand what the whole chapter is trying to summarize before knowing why that verse 17 is there.

Now go back to verse 14, i will show you something you didnt see.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep(died)in Jesus will God bring with him.(will God resurrect with him)

Incase you are doubting whether it means resurrection

Romans 6:4 says Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So, you see, it is strictly talking about us being resurrected in christ in the newness of life, remember i mentioned that we will be given a new body to live on.

If you now understand it from this light you can now read on, so that you will not be confused

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God(meaning God shall call us that our time has reach to die using trumpet )and the dead in Christ shall rise first(the dead in christ shall be resurrected after they die)

Now, all these things will happen in a very short moment,as short as twinkling of the eye (you know when you blink your eye, less than a second) see also 1 cor 15:52.
I continue,
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds...

I told you that literally, the clouds means heaven that we are already translated to heaven through the resurrection of christ. Colossian 1:13
Therefore we that are already in this heaven alive, we will caught up and interact or meet with those who died in christ, in this same heaven here on this earth.(that means we will not prevent them from resurrecting)
We will see them, we will not be able to even recognize them that this was the person who died, why?
Because their body has been changed, they have been given a new body.
Remember Jesus was not recognized when he resurrected,or do you think that thomas wanted to doubt?
Thomas doubted because he could not recognise Jesus anymore, the same jesus he used to see.
God allowed it that way to teach us this same lesson .

petra1:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[

Is it the dead that are to be caught up or the living? Read the scripture again

paul was repeating the very thing he was saying in 1 cor 15:51-52 in 1 thessalonian 4:17.
IF you want to get the full story of what paul meant, read 1 corinthians 15: 35 down to the end of the chapter.

He was strictly saying that there is resurrection of the dead, when we resurrect we will be given a new body.
That there are several bodies created by God, celestial bodies(objects in space) and even the human body, that the spirit gives body freely according to how he desires.
After everything, he ended up by saying o grave where is your sting, meaning, in summary death has been defeated by christ.
Remember, death came to mankind by the sin of one man(adam) but christ came and restore life.
John 3:16 whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

We are not really getting this thing. We have everlasting life in us right now as i am talking dont you understand?

The first man Adam died, but we are the second man.
The second man is made a quikening spirit, we dont die.

The summary of all paul was trying to say whether you see it in 1 thesalonian 4:17 or 1 corinthians 15:52 is that, THERE IS RESURRECTION OF THE DEATH here on this earth, that is our hope.
If this hope is not true, then we are of all men most miserable.

But the truth is, we dont die, death has been defeated.

Not any rapture .

I will just advice you. Take your present life very seriously. If you must go to school and learn, do that and make meaningful and positive impact on this earth ,dont hope for one mystery called rapture .

You see white men, they have developed their world.
Go and see the great exploit they are doing in their country.
But here in africa, we are waiting for rapture when our mates are even traveling to space for research.
What the nonsense!

TruthinAction:
You are saying there is no where in the Scripture that man ascended to heaven. Please read the scripture below.

Revelation 11:11-12.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ASCENDED up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Read the entire passage for the complete story. It's about two prophets who God will use to perform great signs and wonders before the second coming of Jesus. They carried out their ministry for about three and a half years after which they were killed. They did not bury them but celebrated their death. But after three days they rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. Are you satisfied now?

you may be right in this.
Afterall, it was recorded that Elijah was carried away

But the question i asked is, bring a scripture that assures that we will all be carried away by rapture. Certainly you will not find any.

Shepherd00:
foolishness.

this is how it pained you?

Mteeeew!!

TruthinAction:
Let me add this to my initial response. In John 14:2-3, you said Jesus was talking about the temple of our body. But you are grossly dishonest on this cause it doesn't fit in.

how?

He said specifically that he was going to prepare a place for us. And he wants us to be where he is. Jesus is in heaven and that is where he wants us to be until the creation of the new heaven and earth. He also said he is coming back to take us.

at this point, i really wish that you back every point you make with scriptures for better clarification

How did Jesus go to heaven? The answer is in Acts 1:9. which reads;

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight".

They saw him as he ascended. So why do you think we too can't ascend?

for him to ascend, it does not mean that you man ascend too.
Ok, bring any scripture that promise that man will ascend, you will never find any.
The idea that humans will ascend totally contradicts the fact that Jesus restored the glory adam and eve lost, and brought mankind back to the state of sinlessness and guilt here on this earth.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We were made righteous here on this earth. It is the earth that needs our righteousness not the clouds or some mystery place above.
Remember, God created mankind and instructed him from the beginning to replenish this earth,He has not changed his mind on that.

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.(Acts 1:11)

and you in this modern day where there is education, knowledge and understanding you will just believe what that angel said to those disciples that he will come in like manner?
In other to let you know the kind of primitive mind these same disciples had,let me review a scripture in Isaiah

Isaiah 6:9 For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder...

Now, because some of these disciples have read that the government will be upon the shoulder of christ and christ told them he will be killed, they started fighting among themselves what position they will take in the government, unknown to them Jesus kingdom or government is not of this world.

Luke 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning(an argument) among them, which of them should be greatest.

Now, these same set of disciples with that kind of primitive mindset, saw jesus ascending in Act 1:11, what do you expect the angel to tell them?
That christ ascended without setting up the government for them?
They will surely hope that he will descend back and keep his promise in Isaiah 6:9
To keep their primitive hope alive, the angel will tell them what they want to hear(which is false news) so that they will not scatter or leave the faith in disappointment.

Now the question is, as a modern day christian with better knowledge and understanding, do you want to be like these primitive disciples who cannot even understand jesus parables talkless of understanding what the angel was saying to them?

I tell you one truth, the world keeps evolving day by day, people are getting more knowledge and understanding .

The level of knowledge people have acquired today is far above what people used to know in bible days, so you cant blame the disciples for being primitive like that.


Just think about it

TruthinAction:
I really don't know what to say to you because you have already made up your mind not to believe it. Even when you see evidences, you call it figurative.

you will agree with me that figurative languages are everywhere in the new testament?

If anything is said in figurative terms, the Scripture will always interpret it. If it is not interpreted, then you have to take it literally.

really?
Now look at these interpretation
Matthew 13:37 The sower= the Son of man
Matthew13:38 The field = the world;
the good seed=the children of the kingdom.
the tares=the children of the wicked one

Do you see how jesus interpreted his figurative language here?

Now, look at this one that jesus didnt bother to interprete again.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

He did not bother to interprete this matthew 13:33 the way he interpreted matthew 13:37-38 above.
Will you now say because jesus did not interprete matthew 13:33 so we should take it literally like that, that he actually meant a woman taking a leaven of bread to prepare sandwish?

I tell you, if we do that, we have totally misunderstood what jesus was trying to say.

The same thing applies, whatever scripture you read that looks like its talking about people caught up in the air, or sound of trumpet. Check it deeply, there are internal meaning.
The meaning may not be interpreted does not mean that there are no meaning. Our job is to search for the meaning and apply it to reality and not to take it literally like the way we see it.

In John 14:2-3, our Lord Jesus said,

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

i will use this as an example!
This is also a parable or figurative language. It does not in anyway entails physical building or mansion or house. It is simply referring to the fact that our body is the building or temple of God, knowing that our body is present God's kingdom on earth where God lives.

In otherwords, our body is the place where jesus has gone to prepare for us.
And truly,

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

If you read down to verse 51

1 corinthians15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep(that is, we shall not all die) but we shall all be changed,(that is, our body will be changed )

There are so many mysteries or puzzles in bible pointing to one thing that was already said before, but they are all nothing, only that we need to look beyond what we see when we read.

You throw a lot of valid questions, i have seen them all.
I am on duty now i will come back when i am free.

There are answers to every question, nothing is hidden under the sun

TruthinAction:
What people choose to do because of their beliefs is not the issue. What's important is what the word of God says. People will always go to extreme especially if they are receiving God's word from the wrong source. You can still enjoy your life on earth and make the rapture.

anyway, since you believe there is rapture, do have any scriptural proof?
Because i am yet to see any scripture which indicate rapture.

Studies have show that the doctrine was developed by the ancient catholic church, the same people who thought that the earth was flat until galelio disproved the doctrine.
The catholic church uphold that belief that the earth is flat inspite evidences against it, until just recently in 1991 that they official accepted that the earth was spherical afterall.

Now that is human nature for you.
Humans tend to be dogmatic in upholding widely accepted beliefs even when evidences againt it are glaring at their faces

petra1:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The word “Caught up” is what is translated rapture in English

dont come with this scripture you will fail

Look for something else.

We have reviewed this chapter from the beginning to the end, its talking about resurrection of the dead, not rapture.
If i am lying, read 1 cor 15:35 to the end of the chapter you will see it.

TruthinAction:
Instead of you to ask those who can explain seemingly controversial Scriptures to you, you decided to form your own doctrine. Ignorance is the worst desease on earth. Please ask questions. Rapture will take place. Don't deceive yourself and others.

ok, sir!
But all i will tell you is, there are so many christians who believe that rapture is coming, because of that :
They are not fighting for their right in this world,
Nothing is worth meaningful to them,
They live a very miserable life here on earth.
Why because,
They feels that rapture will come one day and destroy everything they will ever work for.
Is that not foolishness?

We have so many of them in africa as i am talking.

herlecks:
Bro, you seem confused. Jesus seized the kingdom after He died and resurrected or after the tribulation?

siezed or whatever, you have just agreed with me that jesus took his kingdom the day he resurrected.

Or you are thinking Jesus seized the kingdom of Israel?

i cant remember saying that. Rather i said christ kingdom is not of this world

You are confusing Israel's history with the world's history!

obviously, you were not reading my posts

Is AD 70 end of the world?? Has the world ended now?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

That happened on the day of pentecost.
Does that mean that the day of pentecost was the last day or the day the world ends?

You have to think beyond the box

I can't see a new heaven or earth anywhere around here, sir?

someone who is spiritually minded dont look for physical things around until he believes.
What physical thing did paul saw when he made this statement?
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Did he see some physical kingdom like the roman or israel empire?
I dont think so.

I can't see any world ruler forcing marks upon men! I can't see Satan been bound up in the lake of fire, in fact, he runs wide destroying lives!

until you see these things before you believe that you are in God's kingdom?
You are only seaching for physical things .

Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world.
That also means his kingdom has nothing to do with these physical things you see, his kingdom is embedded in your spirit.

The day christ resurrected you were translated to his kingdom .col 1:13.
Not that you will be translated sometime in the future.

A lot of christians do not understand this truth, that is why they are not exercising their rights in this world.
They are always scared of the unknown, one day rapture will come and destroy this world and all my effort will go.
Why trying to achieving anything meaningful here on earth?
That is absolutely rubbish

Go study the scripture prayerfully maybe you would see these things. Don't let demon feed you with lies that Jesus had come and gone, now you can live anyhow you want.

being free does not mean you live anyhow you want.

Anyway, i have opened your mind. The day you open your new testament and look at it again you will see exactly all what i have been saying.

herlecks:
Well, you are very confused because the promise made by the angels was long after the kingdom was established, long after the kingdom came. The angels never said He was coming to seize the kingdom. Bro, ESTABLISHMENT of kingdom is different from SEIZING the kingdom. Christ established the kingdom the moment He resurrected from the dead.

There are three kingdoms, kingdom of the world, of God and of Satan. Satanic kingdom invades ours the moment Adam fell, God's invades ours the moment Christ resurrected. But none has totally subdued the kingdom of the world. Man handed over his kingdom to Lucifer, Christ restores the kingdom to man. But how many has the victory?

Has Christ appeared the way He went up into heaven? and what year did that happen?

alright!

What are parables?
How do you identify parables?

Because this will help you know the difference