₦airaland Forum

udatso:
are You even listening to yourself
? you are trying to twist a very simple verse with your logic. give a verse in the old testament that predicts jesus dying and rising on the third day .

lol... if you do not have sound mind to understand simple logic then you shouldn't interfer with discusions that has to do with christianity
even christians are finding it difficult to understand bible. understanding bible is already a big problem to most christians, do you think they will now leave their problem to come and attend to you non christians to solve your problem of understanding logic so that you will understand bible ?
by the way, why should a christian want you non christians to join Christianity?
everybody have right to practice any religion , it is not by force.
so, stop interfering with what you are not educated enough to understand!
MUMU!
Ahahahaa ahahaa haa
lol

Alexis86:
so what is the difference between the kingdom of God on earth and heaven?

they are one and the same thing.
other names used interchangably for the kingdom of God are
THE CHURCH (not building but all people in christianity world wide )
eternal life,
heaven,
faith,
Christianity.
Christianity is our faith.(representing new testament ), Judaism is another faith (representing old testament )
we are justified into eternal life by our faith Christianity (the Christian faith ) and not Judaism ( the Jewish faith )

Burmak:
And that is why we catholics ask those who died in christ like mary,joseph,anthony etc to pray for us because spiritually they are still alive john 11:25

that is true

Ukutsgp:
eternal life is not now but in the future. there is spiritual and physical death. which one are u talking about?

if you truly sure of your saying that eternal life is not now but in the future..you would have supported it with just one scripture.
i talked about both spiritual and physical death.
i say the normal death we die here on earth is physical
while eternal condemnation (a state where people who die will never come back to life again) ) is spiritual death.this one is not for christians

religion is like a fruit,
wise people suck the juice and throw the peels away.
all the ordinances (church and mosque going ) is what we should throw away.
love is the juice that comes with religion, that is what we should take home.
love judges all things with the heart
love never consider whether anybody is Muslim or christian
people who walk with love, you will never know whether they belong to any religion.
you don't see them in church
you don't see them in mosque
they practice their christianity or Islam deep inside them.
infact,.anything religion is laughable and senseless to them

redsun:
Wha ar gwan?I can only be allowed to use the word great book for the koran.

the quran and Bible, though as good as these books are with good intention ,has succeeded in throwing Nigerians into a state of confusion and disharmony .
because Nigerians in general are still foolish and primitive people to understand these books

udatso:
Please enlighten me

so you do not understand reasoning to this extent and you are arguing?
non sequito simply means IT DOES NOT FOLLOW
for instance, if i say,since dogs aggressively bite because they have teeth IT FOLLOWS that goats aggressively bite because they also have teeth. i am not correct.
i am commiting a fallacy known as non sequito, because goats can never be dogs simply because they have teeth. i can only use goat having teeth to illustrate and say that, because goats have teeth and dogs have teeth therefore both are animals
this is the kind of illustration Jesus made, saying because Jonah was in the fish belle for 3 days and 3 night, therefore he is going to be crucified and be in the grave for 3 days
he was only using Jonah's situation to illustrate and describe to the Jews for them to understand what will happen to him shortly, He wasn't saying Jonah's situation was going to be exactly what will happen to him

bigblangston:
Bt to my own calculation sir, jesus did nt spend 3 days and 3 nights in d earth because he died on friday probably afternoon and he resurrected on sunday (morning or afternoon) then hw did he spend 3 days and 3 nights, pls explain sir

didn't you see the question udatso asked?
" that he [Jesus] was buried, that he was raise
on
the third day in accordance with the scriptures(old testament ). he want to see 3 days in the old testament.
not 3 days 3 night.
if you see 3 days 3 night which from your calculation should be longer than 3 days what else are you looking for?

udatso:
Even though this explanation is wrong, I will come to it later.
Where in the old testament was his 3 days mentioned. What you have done is still quote from the new testament and relate it to the old testament. What am asking is quote (a prophecy) from the old testament and relate it to the 3 days.
And as for the sign of Jonas, it's not similar to Jesus as the Bible tells us

do you understand reasoning at all? what is NON SEQUITO? give one example of a argument that illustrate non sequito

Alexis86:
This is strange, yet it appear to be true, i have gone through all the scriptures you posted using my bible. It's like you are very correct. But it is strange

i once heard a pastor in the uk preaching a topic,
the error of our generation. the way he explained it, i have to go back to the bible to do research.
i soon discover that we are just doing child's play in all the churches in Africa.
it's not about preaching, it's about knowing what is inside that book called Bible

why will you suggest pant? are you God who created us?

the most underrated is diploma in canopy and rental services

Infact, we have been living our lives on this earth since the very day christ resurrected since 2000 years ago and we will live forever, no end .
Its just that when we die(which is not death in the real sense but sleep) our body is changed.we are given a new body by the spirit to continue our lives here on earth. That is why we dont know that this trend has been happening since 2000 years ago.
I will use 1cor15:35 down to prove this.
The other time i posted that
Jesus gathered his disciples one after the other by asking them,FOLLOW ME
that out of the over 5000 disciples who followed Jesus, who eat five loaves and fishes only about 120 them eventually got saved.(The day of pentecost.act1:15.)
these were the disciples who started Christianity that we are practicing today.
Therefore, Christianity is the kingdom of God on earth.(if you understand Jesus parables when he will say, the kingdom of God is like unto... )
Now, what are christians saved from?
We are saved from death!(resurrection of the death )
Remember, Adam and eve sinned(here on earth ) and death came as a result.
But, Jesus came that we might have eternal life(here on earth )
So,the reason why we are Christians is for us to have eternal life(the hope of our salvation ) which is resurrection of the death (life without end ) here on earth.
so, the concept of eternal life is what Nigerian Christians do not know about.
They don't believe in eternal life, they are like the saducees. they think that resurrection of the death(eternal life) is when we go to heaven.
Let us look at this Scripture critically.
1 Corinthians 15:35-37
35. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
let me explain this parable,
You see, when you plant a grain here on earth ( for instance, a white seed like maize ),that same seed will grow to become a plant shoot (green plant ) here on earth,which has a different body from the seed previously planted. Yet, it is the same seed(here on earth ).
It's a mystery.
This is how our body is changed when we die.
We will be buried into the soil like seeds or grains (funeral ) and will be resurrected with a new body, here on earth
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption(in soil); it is raised in incorruption(to life ):
Only those who can think with their brain will understand this thing.
Only fools who don't think will still be confused.
Our body will be changed.
If you read from verse 38 down, you will see that there are different kind of bodies created by God (terrestrial and cosmos bodies )
And he gives us body as it will or pleased him. That means we cannot control it. (If i can control mine i will like to come back to my next life as a fine boy.. lol )
We have next life after this one we are living and another one again after that one, making it a multiple life without end (known as aboundant life )
This is the concept of eternal life.
It is only for Christians .because they have spiritual body through Christ, Unlike non christians (unbelievers ) who have only natural body with only one life to live and they die away (condemnation )
But we don't know these things.
How can we know when our body is changed and our memory is formated like memory card each time we die?
But we have known it through the scriptures.
If you read down to verse 51,
1 Corinthians 15:51
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep(Die ), but we shall all be changed(our body will be changed )
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound(death ), and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This verse 52 suggest that death is like the twinkling of the eye, a short period of time(less than one second ) like blinking the eye (eye closed,and open again, into another life (after judgement ), this time into the womb of another woman(who is a Christian, and not a Muslim ) to be born again as a new baby(a new creature ) into this earth to continue life as a christian.
This explains
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ(in Christianity ), he is a new creature: old things(his old life with all his sin and it consquences ) are passed away(Making him free from the consequences of the sin he commited in that old life. Romans 6:7 says For he that is dead is freed from sin.); behold, all things are become new.
during that short period of time of blinking (less than a second ) there will be judgment.
It is appointed for men to die once, after that judgment.
This judgment is explained in revelation.
The sound of the trumpet there means, the day we will die (it's like a calling,using trumpet to call us that our time has reached to die)
I know this will disappoint many who, based on this Scripture have been waiting for rapture... lol.
to prove the fact that we will open our eyes in the womb of another woman who is a Christian, to be born as christians again
Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ(Die as a Christian, not as a Muslim ), we believe that we shall also live with him(live as a Christian when we come back again )
Because, there is no way we will come back to be born into an Islamic home and grow up to be christians, we must be groomed by a christian parent.
Lastly, read what Jesus says in
John 5:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation(shall not die ); but is passed from death unto life.
This means that we will never die, that when we die we will automatically be translated from death to life again.
This is the hope of your salvation.
Think about it

FreshGreen: MICHAEL JACKSON IS IN HELL & A MESSAGE FOR YOU
Our Lord Jesus Christ showed a vision to one of His children to see so many people who died and went to hell, one of the multitude is the popular Michael Jackson (MJ) This man had satanic covenants: He came to agreement with the devil in order to achieve fame and attract many fans.

Those steps that he performed, that's the way I saw demons walk while tormenting people in hell. They would slide backward and not move forward, while they shout; enjoying the anguish they impose upon the people. Let me tell you that Michael Jackson is in hell. The Lord showed him to me after Michael died. He let me see Michael Jackson tormented in flames"He let me see Michael Jackson tormented in flames. I cried to Jesus, "Why?" It wasn't easy to see how this man was being tormented and how he would scream. Anyone who listens to Michael Jackson's songs or sings them or who is a fan of Michael Jackson, I warn you that Satan is trapping you in his web so that you will end up in hell. Right now, renounce it in the name of Jesus! Jesus wants to set you free, so that you will not be lost."

Here is a message from another American singer-songwriter, SELENA "Please, I beg you, go tell people about this, please speak out and do not be silent; go and tell them not to come to this place; go and tell them not to listen to my songs, nor sing my songs." She said, "Because every time people sing and listen to my songs, I am tormented even more, the person who does this, who sings and listens to my songs, is walking to this place. Please, go tell them not to come here; go tell them that hell is real!"- Angelica Zambrano

Because of the love of fortune, fame and fan, MJ, SELENA and many others are in flames of fire now as you are reading this. So why do you also want to go to hell? Because of prosperity, possessions, positions, popularity, properties, power, people or pride? Are these making you to delay your salvation? Do you still want to go to hell after your salvation just because of little compromise, undone restitution, unforgiving spirit, secret sin, malice envy, little anger, jealousy or bitterness? Are you set to end up in hell just because of worldly music, movies, magazines, materials, makeup or worldly dress? You don't care what anybody says now, just doing your things your own way and you allow devil to block your ears till you land in hell? Unlike MJ, thank God you are still alive to surrender your life to Jesus, to rededicate your life to Jesus. DO IT NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. Repent, confess to Jesus, surrender and start a new life in Jesus!

SALVATION
You need to surrender your life to Jesus now and experience genuine salvation without any further delay so that you will not be among the miserable that will miss the rapture. There is no need to deceive your self or delay your genuine salvation that gives power over sin. It is free for for you, to help better, please click on this link to read how to experience genuine salvation https://www.facebook.com/notes/revelation-of-truth-evangelical-ministries-rtem/how-to-be-saved-and-start-a-new-life-in-jesus/270674586372252

You can also contact us on email or phone for prayer, counsel or if you need biblical enlightenment on personal issues:

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you see, have you heard them?
it's people like you that are making people curse christianity thereby preventing people from entering the kingdom of God.
and, you know what? God has reserved his punishment for you.
You better ask for forgiveness for your own good.

]
mj was born and brought up in a christian home (jehovah witness),buried as a Christian, he believed in Jesus,he is alive again
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned...
in all his songs, he also preached love for fellow mankind.
the world is becoming a better place today because of his HEAL THE WORLD Ideology
what thing have you done to impact your generation, nation (Nigeria ) positively?

asalimpo: okay. But you know ,if he's guilty, this dare would b unmatched by the wife? The average wife,and busy pastor, wouldnt hav the time or interest to amass evidence against the husband. Except she'd go all out to hire a private detective (which for a woman of her status wud leak the cat outta d bag). Two,if he's guilty, he cud hav gone to great lenghts to mask his activities. Mayb not meet in the same country as the mistress.

it's very possible

asalimpo: this looks like a cheap cover up defense .
Are u a member of christ embassy?

no, I'm not a member! But i read pastor Chris saying if she (Anita ) had evidence of adultery, that she should come out with it on air.
He has been saying this, more than a month now since the scandal escalated and she could not come up with any evidence.
to me, i must see a clear evidence before i believe in anything

MORNDEW: Whts deceptive in that writeup? And talking about whether he did it or not, is his probs mine is to educate. Bt hv u seen the October issue of Rapsody? Anita is nowhere to be found.

Anita had other exceptions against pastor Chris beliefs of the bible, we discovered that she wanted to be free,thats why she broke from him ,not really because pastor Chris commited adultery

I have been to churches. i have heard pastors quoting only one or two verses of the bible without explaining the fundamental idea of whole the chapter. then,the next thing is:
YOU WILL MAKE YOUR MILLIONS IN JESUS NAME
and the whole church will respond A M E N!!!
Meanwhile those who are making the money in church knows that money comes by knowledge (education, be it formal or informal ),hard work and perseverance
please i want to ask, is this kind of response by church members FAITH?

atbu1983: Hebrew 10. 26 to 27 ESV

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge
of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a
fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume
the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:26-27 New English Translation (NET Bible)

For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the
knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for
us, but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and
a fury of fire that will consume God’s enemies .


Hebrews 10:26-27 New Life Version (NLV)
Do Not Fall Back Into Sin
If we keep on sinning because we want to after we have
received and know the truth, there is no gift that will take
away sins then. Instead, we will stand before God and on
that day He will judge us. And the hot fires of hell will burn
up those who work against God.

Hebrews 10:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
For if we sin willfully after we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice
for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment,
and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

why didn't you continue reading verse 28 which is a continuation of the same Scripture so that you will have a proper understanding?
this is what they do in Nigerian churches, they will quote only one or two verses and base their explanation on it without understanding the whole chapter.
It is wrong.
A lot of people have believed their pastors (prominent pastors) and remain in suffering.
Hebrews 10:28 says He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
so it's obvious that the fearful expectation of furry fire Paul meant there is the consequence of breaking the law of moses, the 10 commandments.
remember,breaking the law of moses is what we know as sin.here on earth ,but to God it is not like that because God is a spirit
what God know as sin by virture of the fact that Christ came to die is the refusal to believe that Jesus is the Messiah which we christians have believed already
the law for example says
thou shall not kill
if you kill,the consequence is the vedict of the land which says you will be killed too,your salvation will not save you. faith without works is death.
whether you are Christian or Muslim or whatever, we are all subjected under this law which apply only in this physical life
but in the spiritual realm, it is another thing entirely. we are justified by faith without these laws
that means, our justification lies entirely in the spiritual realm
have you seen heaven before? no
because, heaven is spirit realm
but we believe and know that we are already there.by faith
so, i put it to you that
[quoting you ]Hebrew 10. 26 to 27 ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after
receiving the knowledge
of the truth, there no longer remains a
sacrifice for sins, but a
fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury
of fire that will consume
the adversaries.
this scripture is one and the same thing as faith without works is dead. (which justification lies only in this physical life, empowered by the law of moses, the 10 commandments, which is not enough to judge christians to loose their salvation or eternal life )
show me a place in the bible that says when a Christian commit sin willfully he will loose salvation

atbu1983: Look at what paul wrote again in corinthians

" hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit May be saved in the day of the Lord."

This is simple english that is very clear to anyone who love truth.
The Statement clearly shows the destruction of the flesh for this particular person is an attempt to see if his spirit can still be save. He already lost it. This is a corrective measure to salvage the situation.

Understand he said: " so dat his spirit MAY be save."

"May" in this sentence is a conditional verb with a probability greater than 50%. It doesn't represent certainty.
If you read the passage with open mind, without any prejudice of already bias believe the passage will be crystal clear and simple.

Because you want to hear what you want and see what you want to see, the passage will not be clear to you. you will go on twisting and twisting.

Always know this, God create man For himself. Man did not create God for themselves. God does not own us a duty. We are the one who owns God worship and reverence and praises.

The relationship we have with God through Christ our lord, is not about God pleasing us but about us pleasing God.

This is my last post on this subject. I rest my case.

talking about the statement of Paul, "..may his spirit be saved " showing a conditional statement with probability, you are right there.
But have you consider the fact that christianity was new at that time.?
That Paul preached and converted a lot of Jews (people who practiced the religion called Judaism ) into Christianity (the religion of Christ )?
that some adherents of Judaism must have pretended as if they believed and come to stay among believers (making those who believe 50%,and those who do not believe 50%) so that it was difficult for Paul to identify those who truly believe among them, Making Paul to use that conditional probability statement "MAY" because he was not sure again if those who commited those sin are those who believe among them?
that these Jews may come and dwell among them and commit sin so that it will appear as though believers were the one who commited the sin, just to prove to people that christianity was not a true religion, hence Jesus wasn't the comming Messiah they were waiting for?
that their main target was to discourage believers from staying in Christianity and take them back to Judaism were they were converted from by Paul?
Have you considered all that as a reason why Paul uses the "May" conditional verb in that statement, meaning, the person in question may be or may not be a Christian ?
There are scriptures that point to these facts, i can show you.

atbu1983: 1 Corinthians 5 . 1-13 .New English Translation (NET Bible) as stated below

It is actually reported that sexual immorality exists among
you, the kind of immorality that is not permitted even among
the Gentiles, so that someone is cohabiting with his father’s
wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you have been deeply
sorrowful instead and removed the one who did this from
among you? For even though I am absent physically, I am
present in spirit. And I have already judged the one who did
this, just as though I were present. When you gather
together in the name of our Lord Jesus, and I am with you in
spirit, along with the power of our Lord Jesus, hand this
man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that
his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little
yeast affects the whole batch of dough? Clean out the old
yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough—you are, in
fact, without yeast. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been
sacrificed. So then, let us celebrate the festival, not with
the old yeast, the yeast of vice and evil, but with the bread
without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually
immoral people. In no way did I mean the immoral people
of this world, or the greedy and swindlers and idolaters,
since you would then have to go out of the world. But
now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who
calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy,
or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a
swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. For what
do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to
judge those inside? But God will judge those outside.
Remove the evil person from among you.


Short Explanation: In this passage , paul is strictly referring to those who have accepted christ but are still proud of themselves living immoral life. To them he said he has passed Judgement on them already. Paul said pass d person to satan for destruction of his flesh so dat his spirit may be saved of d lord. This means that if d persons love of d flesh is not consciously destroyed the persons spirit will not be save. Note that this person was proud of his immoral life. Which means he was doing it deliberately and as such his spirit will not be save......Lost of Salvation.

Paul even said such persons should b expelled from d gathering of christians. He went further to say we are to Judge fellow christians conduct. The Judgement we judge a fellow christian is to bring to his notice his wrongs so dat he depart from it for his spirit that was save by Blood of jesus to remain save. For d bible said Faith without work is dead

Note: I know those with satanic message can still twist dis passage with logical reasons which Apostle paul never intended when he wrote to d corinthians. We should understand that paul writing is a letter to a gathering of christian in corinthians. which means it is suppose to be easy to understand. He didn't write them to be scrutinising it with plenty logic to justify thier love for things of d flesh.


more bible passages

Matthew 7. 21 to 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Hebrew 6. 4 to 6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been
enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in
the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God
and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to
restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once
again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to
contempt.


2peter 2. 20 to 22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through
the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse
for them than the first. For it would have been better for them
never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it
to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What
the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to
its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow
in the mire.”




All dis passage point to one thing. we can lose our salvation if we don't live righteous life by subjecting our body to control. Yes we need d grace of God to achieve it. but we must consciously seek it for d grace of God to help us achieve it.

Note. I deliberately didn't quote any old testament b4 u end up saying old testament is for d law. That is where I hv problem with some of u who uses old testament to justify tithing but when it come to other issues u say it is of d law and no longer valid.

thank God you know, old testament is out of it. That is why i say show me where the bible says if a CHRISTIAN sin deliberately he has lost his salvation. because Christianity started in the new testament (not even Matthew, mark, Luke and John, but from the book of Act down to revelation, and unto this day )
You can even excommunicate a Christian who commited a gracious sin from the church and no church member will associate with him,
It will help to prevent a situation where he will corrupt the rest of the church members with his evil mindset. I think that was what paul was trying to emphasize there.because, evil communication corrupt good manners.
But i tell you, God has not rejected any Christian who is excommunicated like that , he has not lost his salvation so long he has not defected from christianity to islam.
Because Christianity is the way,the truth and the (eternal life )
You say,Paul said, pass d person to satan
for destruction of his flesh so dat his spirit
MAY BE SAVED of d lord.
then in your explanation,you say,This means that if d persons love of d flesh is not consciously
destroyed the persons spirit will NOT BE SAVED.
now i want to ask, is the phrase MAY BE SAVED the same thing as the phrase NOT BE SAVED?
with this, between me and you who is now twisting scriptures?
show me a place in the Bible that put any such verdict as a Christian will loose his salvation if he commit sin deliberately.
i am still waiting

atbu1983: 1corinthians 9. 24 to 27

24 Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only
one person gets the prize? So run to win! 25 All athletes are
disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will
fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. 26 So I run with
purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. 27 I
discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it
should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself
might be disqualified.


From dat passage, it means we can lose d prize of eternal life (salvation) if we don't try our best to conquer our flesh. All we need to ask is d grace of God to help our resolve. It is our decision to consciously displine our body, d grace of God only assist us to achieve.

Note: I know you can come up with satanic twisting of d message to create a meaning never intended by Apostle Paul when he was writing to Corinthians.


2Timithy 4vs 3 is as stated below
For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound
teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will
accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an
insatiable curiosity to hear new things.

this Scripture does not say Christians who sin deliberately will loose salvation just like you said.
thank God you even said we need the grace of God, that we need to discipline our body.
if we are to discipline our body it shows that we are not 100% perfect, we can only try.
incase you don't know ,for us to be justified into eternal life we must be 100% perfect
God says be ye holy, for i am holy
so God is 100% holy
and the only grace of God that has made us 100% holy as God wanted is the blood of Jesus, not our ourselves or works
show me a Scripture that says if a Christian deliberately commit sin he will loose his salvation which contradicts the saying that we are saved by grace, not by works ..
OK, take all your time, even one or two months to search your Bible, i will be here waiting

Ukutsgp: and u know d dat the consequence of sin is eternal death(separation from God).

we must work for God. remember, Jesus said 'occupy till i come'. will he find u in ur duty post when he comes?

i must do the work of him that sent me while it is day, the night is coming when no man can work.

he has sent us to preach d gospel, heal d sick, bind d broken hearted, raise d dead, bring deliverance to d possessed, set free those that are in prisons, help d orphans and widows like Dorcas, etc.

thats true, the consequence of sin is eternal death which is the verdict of God to any man who refuses to believe.(who refuses to join Christianity )
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already..
remember, Jesus is the founder of Christianity
all christians believe, everybody.
therefore, we are saved by faith. inside the faith called Christianity.
thereby fulfilling that saying "the just (the righteous ) shall live (exist ) by faith .
there was never the existence of any righteous man ever since adam and eve sin until Christ came to die
remember, death(eternal death ) came because Adam and Eve sinned.
so Christ came and overcome that eternal death and exchange it with eternal life (the verdict of God ) for as many who believe
so, when God is asking we christians not to commit sin, he is simply trying to prevent us from the consequence of sin that is the verdict of man on earth, not the consequence of our sin that is his own verdict which is eternal death,because he has already settled that one on the cross and overcome eternal death for us
that is why Paul says "o death, where is your victory "
the verdict of God is different from the verdict of man on earth.
the verdict of God is eternal life for every man who believe, otherwise, Christ came to die for nothing
the verdict of man is the law (the 10 commandments)
so anytime we commit sin we are exposing ourselves to be vulnerable to the verdict of men.
thou shall not kill, if you kill, the law of the land says you shall surely die too, etc
please, the only work that God recognized is to believe in the son of man whom God has sent
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
and also, love your neighbour as yourself.
ofcourse, you should know who your neighbour is, they are not just your church members alone.
so, you can see that there is no room for religious fanatism and church jamboree in Christianity

atbu1983: Every human being will love it if your position of once save forever save is true .

But d fact is that it is not true. it is false Gospel satan had devised to take many to hell. By using charismatic sweet talking preachers to spread it, many will fall for it.

The bible told us that in d last days false teachers will be plenty. people will become lovers of themselves . Many will have itching ears always wanting to hear what is sweet.

The gospel of once save always save is delusional.


It is true as a true believer of Christ God doesn't condemn us to hell immediately when we do wrong or sin. But need to see in us d desire to be free physically from those sin.

Those of us who sin deliberately because grace of God is available will surely lose our salvation if we don't repent.

quote one Scripture out that support this position and explain the scripture let's see.
you know the Bible can not contradict itself?
please don't quote multiple Scriptures, the reason is to reduce to much writing.
just give me only one and explain that one

atbu1983: dis your post is a backing for once saved, forever save. if dat is
true, once I am born again, I don't need to go to church . Spend
my money on tithe and offering. Stress myself working in d church
4 free. Since my aim of being a christian is to b save. And my
works is not needed. You can't say I rob God 4 not paying tithe as
written in Malachi 3. Since my sins have be paid for I am above
sin. so I can't rob God. Even if I sleep with my neighbours wife
and died while having
d sex of heart attack, I will still make heaven because d sin has
been paid 4 before I committed it since I am born again and
saved already. Since I am already born again as stated in 2 corinthians 5. 17, my salvation is bullet proof and air tight. All I need do is to flex enjoy my life till I die. doing whatever pleases me whether bad or good in d eyes of men. But in d eyes of God I am save. I can join cult. use charm. kill who I don't like etc. it is only sin 4 those under d law. now that I under grace and have b save by d blood of Jesus, notin I do can be called sin. since I am now slave to righteousness. Whatever I do is righteous. not because d act was good but because me a righteousness of God did it.

Yes ,Christ has done it all, he says it is finish! you don't need to do anything again. You should be happy about this. Jesus is also not advising us to go and commit sin. (whatever sin, big or small, they are the same before God. James 2:10 says For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.) because he doesn't want us to suffer the consequence, when the consequence of sin comes the salvation we have already will not save us.from it . Faith without works is dead
Now that you know you are already saved, use your conscience to avoid sin as much as you can.
Different people have different ability to avoid sin depending on their education level, that is why it is advisable to go to school, ignorance is not an excuse.
its like,your conscience (love for your fellow man ) is what God want to test in you, if you have it. Not to condemn you.
Talking about going to church to work. The question you need to ask yourself is, are you paid for the work? You should have a very good reason why you are working, you can't continue to work like that for free, You only devalue yourself.
If you are working because you believe that your pastor is teaching the truth, better. That means you are working for him voluntarily.
Just know that if you decides today not to work again he cannot slap you
Just know that God is not interested in all that work, what God is interested is, ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
ofcourse you know that working in church cannot give you salvation.
Your salvation was given to you since 2000 years ago

logicboy01: Britain normally sent criminals to new colonies.


Funny how many african christians forget the bold

no Nigerian christian is bold enough to ask ask their pastors critical questions that they do not understand about what they have been thought in church
for instance, someone pastors hold it that if people don't pay tithe they will be poor
they won't ask, how come dangote is rich? ( since dangote is a Muslim he does not pay tithe to church)
or can't they see that God gave everybody equal chance to make wealth?
Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
I'm not saying that Christians should not pay tithe. But Christians should have a better reason to pay rather than being afraid whether they will be poor or rich
infact, christians should have good reasons why they should do everthing they ought to do
so many other questions like that they should ask
if they can't ask their religious leaders questions is it their political leaders they will be bold to ask questions when they are corrupt?
hence, corruption continues
charity begins at home

we understand that missionaries who brought christianity to africa,most of them were touts in London streets whose purnishment for commiting crimes in London was to come to africa to do missionary work.that means, they never had university education.
Also,African tradition and culture had values that were antagonistic to ethics. For instance, the man who is the head of his family will suppress the opinion of everybody in the family (including that of his wife ) such that, nobody will have the boldness to protest even when he is wrong.it has always been like that before Christianity came to Africa. (a replicate of the situation where church members are not bold enough to protest even when pastors are doing wrong because they were made to believe that if they venture to protest, the holy spirit will be offended ).
Because these missionaries were not educated and needed africans to accept christianity by all means , They were forced to teach Africans a faulty doctrine that, once saved is not always saved (a doctrine that contradicts Romans 6:10 which says For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God) which pastors are still teaching till now,which do not preach grace and correlate with the faulty ungracious values of African tradition making it widely acceptable in Africa (yet the teachers says they believe in grace )
With all the devotion to God it is strange how
pastors in Nigeria cannot explain the bibical story of the Gospel (Matthew, mark, Luke and John ) or
even understand the history of Christianity, or
the life of Jesus or the interpretation of his parables . They cannot even have an
intelligent objective understanding of what Jesus meant by the kingdom of God in his parables, so that church members will know the truth and be free
As a result, churches are almost like spiritual social club, and in some cases day rituals (a typical African culture ); full of magic and circus tricks in the name of miracles .
They
rarely conveys the deeper meaning of the
Bible or the true teachings of Jesus. They have become
powerful tool for priests (pastors ) to amass wealth and status by brainwashing unconscious victims
looking for deliverance. They are never intended to
create people who think for themselves, who can
challenge and resolve complex issues that faces them in their lives . They seems to replace that natural awareness, natural
curiosity, with blind faith and narrow distorted
understanding of reality. They always seems to
close down the doors to intellectual
development, logic and reason— creating
functionites who just act and think in one way.
Socialized into spiritual redundancy,
ignorance, and at an impasse with mental
development.
The error is not in the Bible or the Christian faith. the error started from African tradition.
Missionaries came and added their own.
Christianity or any
religion should develop the soul and the mind;
it should inform and create consciousness. So
if the only message is " have faith " and " In
Jesus name " then that is not Christianity but a
selective corruption which keeps the masses
ignorant and impotent.
I will say that, educated nigerians should abandon loyalty to pastors (the origin of sentiment ) and do research of the bible and teach their children the right thing at home since the government have leave us at the mercy of these churches to teach us morality as a nation.
That is the only way Nigeria will move forward

i understand the
doctrine is very strange in Africa, i became confused at first when i was told. but with time, after a meticulous scrutiny of every statement in it using the bible , i began to see the logical sense in the story, proving the intelligence of God and the accuracy of the bible.
they say white men are next to God ,truly, white men are very intelligent people. they already proved this doctrine a long time ago
little wonder they will sit down and think to invent things, rather than being mere religious

Jesuspikin7: Fake preacher

lol.. OK, just mention one place in the explanation that is fake, just one

Ukutsgp: u are ignored.

lol ..guy nor vex o, you nor be infidel

Rich4god: It still doesnt justify you calling him infidel... For me, am with him on this issue, but I believe everyone is entitled to his faith and not force it on another dats y i didnt join in the discussion....

thanks
lol... never mind! he is now my friend... a new friend on nairaland. i know he is not an infidel, he is a christian
i am only using those words on him because he started attacking me by saying my doctrine is false without using scriptures to advance a tangible prove that i am wrong,neglecting the fact that every explanation or argument i made were supported with Scriptures (i didn't write the bible, I only,explain what i see in it )
i mean, if he is saying i am a false prophet or teacher then he should use scriptures to counter me by explaining how he understand the scriptures, or else, by saying i am a false prophet, he has gone beyond saying his opinion and he is attacking
he is a friend, it's just that we are two people with different understanding... lol
abeg tell am make he nor vex o. lol