₦airaland Forum

osazsky:
u that is not paying have u achieved 2percent of wat he has achieved..my bro if it works for u continue thithing though I don't believe in it I won't discourage orthers

Is dangote paying tithe?
Has he as a tithe payer achieved 0.001 percent of what dangote has achieved?

Some of you, your brain na water dey inside

[quote author=BeigJawnson post=129921956]Now I am throwing the question back to you, is it all pastors threatening people to pay tithes? /

so long they call it tithe it is a threat.
There is no pastor who collect tithe that doesn't quote the book of Malachi which prounce misfortune to people who do not pay.
And that's where the threat lies.
[quote]Mind you, I don't pay tithes, I give...

Giving is another thing entirely,This is what i do too, and it is not necessarily 10% of my income
I give anytime and I'm not compelled by threats from the book of Malachi to do so

If the word tithe is not mentioned in the bible, it won't be talked about

that is the problem!
IInfact, that is where the scam is coming from!

The truth is, the bible comprises of both the old and the new testament, and where our faith lies is the new testament and not the old.
So why will someone read the old testament to compel me to pay a tithe regime that was meant for the old testament, is that not a scam?

BeigJawnson:
So you calling some group of people fools is morally okay right? I can't laugh...

scamming people is more immortal

You don't believe in something and called it scam, never meant it is a scam.

it's not about me believing in it or not.
It's about the deceptive manner which these pastors use it to exploit you people which they can never do it in a sane society.

Now i ask the question again, where in the bible did these pastors get the tithing doctrine that they are now using it to threaten you people that were supose to be Christians that if you don't pay things will become tight for you?

BePrepared:
Can u prove that he was defrauded before a court of law.

you don't need any court of law over a case where someone outsmart your intelligence and keep exploiting money from you.
All you need is simple wisdom!

However, i don't know what exact country the op mean by diaspora, but what i know is that most countries in Europe including the UK have regulations against religious exploitations like tithing to protect it citizens..
Remember, Bishop Oyedepo have been banned from entering UK talkless of him going there to open a church.
Chris Oyakhilome too was sanctioned for exploitation related offense some time ago in the UK, but it wasn't clear whether it was tithing.

BeigJawnson:
Okay apart from being a Christian and much more morals are taught in Christianity .... By the way, you lack manners, you are here calling some group of people fools ... Are you not morally taught from your home?

The issue is, someone is deliberately using the faulty tithe doctrine to distort money from church members and that is the most classified immorality.
And when someone speaks against it you will say the person doesn't have manners.

I really don't know what you define as manners

Well, you that you haven't be giving tithe, how far about you? Can you brag about yourself a bit... So we giving tithes can stop giving...

Brag what?

So this is all about bragging?
Let's assume that it is the ritual called tithing that gives you wealth, so you will now be bragging?

This is exactly what yahoo boys are doing now!

When babalawo deceived yahoo boys that they are making money because of their rituals, then the yahoo boys begins to brag that ritual is working.
That's what you people are doing too

This Africa self

Convince us. One thing is, when we give tithes, we believe it is given to God

Like how?
Can you explain yourself

Do God eat human money?

And moreover, did God asked Christians to pay tithe, where did you see that in the bible ?

, and He will reward us.

if you are working and earning money, all the money or fortunes or achievements you have ever made was through your effort and has nothing to do with any tithe.

But people like you, when you are asked to bring human flesh for sacrifice, to have money, you will rush and look for who to kill.

what is this one talking?
You know nothing about me and cannot say anything about me until it tell you myself who i am, if that is necessary.

Imagine the faulty conclusion

So we giving tithes, that is the sacrifice we pay to also have God's blessings in one way or the other...

Africans will always be diabolical in one way or the other thinking that is giving them financial fortune. I just mention babalawo, it's still the same thing that you people do in church.
In this case, pastor is your babalawo while tithing is your sacrifice or ritual and the church has become your shrine.

It is a classified ancient African culture that you people are now seeing as opportunity to practice in church today .
Ritualism!

But here is the truth.
It does not work, it is a scam

BeigJawnson:
Try to be civil, must you insults before sharing opinions? And you called your self Christian? Be well mannered, a Christian who insults people... HOW CHRISTIAN IS THAT?

Leaves Christian out of this, the guy and many other Christians worldwide who are falling for this tithe scam are all fools.
Their delusion is so deep inside their souls that they will not possibly emancipate themselves unless it is through God's miracle.
It will take another 1000 years for them to understand that

emmabest2000:
One man's food is another man's poison

Insults is not necessarily

Ok, Tithe is the mans poison but food for pastors

Very good

jahsharon:
Don't spoil other people's businesses nah. If Maga no dey, how Guy man go chop. He thinks God needs money to pay for HIS children's school fees, I mean God's children who are going to private school in Heaven, so this Maga gives God money to pay HIS children's school fees

kennie2015:
You are the Mumu

Bush man were nor get sense like you, do you even have a clue or understand what is happening here?

here, castigating and insulting someone that seek an advise,

That is not advice he is seeking, he came to show up his foolishness and i will tell you why incase you don't know.
1. Tithing is not of Christianity: Someone is reading the old testament(which is not Christianity) to scam him his money and this has been happening for years and will continue to happen.
2. I'm very sure he is an educated person, yet he is falling for this huge scam, he should just go and hide is face

[
it depict how shallow minded you are, in the midst of multitude there are good and bad counsel.

The best you can do is ask, why did i insult him, then i will explain.

You can't judge anything because obviously you too are not aware of the difference.

pfadom:
That's your problem! He has never complained of inadequacies, and has never given out of frustration. So why do you take pills over someone else's matter that is no problem to him.

then he should keep his foolishness to himself and not say it in public, other he will hear other people's harsh opinion, it's simple

BePrepared:
Calling someone stupid on top of his own money

Did he collect ya money to pay d tithe
Some of you here deserve oraimo cord

who cares about his money if he cannot use it do something meaningful for himself?

he should keep the awkward thing he has done to himself and not bring it to the public. Otherwise, he will certainly hear other people's harsh opinion

How can proudly say you make millions over the years only for you to willingly and blindly subject yourself to be defrauded and then you
come out in public to say it without expecting someone not to say that you are a fool?

Yes

Ok o

Veecruz:
Of course you do not see The Law was also there and was operating in that case.

The thief did many Lawful things on that cross as his last act and did not die in sin as you think. Rather he died doing good and even died doing good not to a man or a prophet were his reward is from the prophet but he did it to God!

The thief gave justice where Jesus got injustice. He gave light while Jesus was plunged into darkness He condemned the evil while honouring and respecting the good which he openly declared that Jesus did.

Therefore the thief did The Law in that he did to another, that which should be done to him.

Thus, he did the good, and a good that was even done and given to The Lord Hinself, and not just to any Obi, Tinubu or Atiku, but The Lord Himself, therefore as The Law hath Said, good must be done to him, according to The Law!

Law Beginning, Law Ending!

So nothing for you, and you shall have no rest nor peace no matter how much you invoke self deceit, for there is no rest for Liars nor is there any place for a Lie to stand. For The Law Always Rules and Rules Absolutely!

Ok, I'm done with you

Veecruz:
Told you before, The Law is the servant of its Maker.and therefore only works only on those who are less than it and under it.

you see now, you don carry yourself by yourself and with your hands go put for tight Conner with your lies and confusion

And that is why The Law of sinking in water did not hold Christ nor The Law of gravity when He ascended to heaven nor The Law of death when He entered it and came out by Himself, wothout anyone praying for Him as Elijah and Elisha did to others.
So, Christ is above The Law because He is The LawMaker, which you see no other person was able to these things because, everyonelse in the world is under The Law!

So, your final answer is, Christ is not under law?
Good!

And i have already shown you that Grace is the Application of Law. Grace is Law in Motion!

How come that the Grace Jesus pronounced to the thief that he will be with him in paradise was not given to the thief but rather, he was killed by the law since you say Grace is law in motion ?

Luke 23:43

Veecruz:
The quote shows that Nature shows The Law and every thing in this world is all UNDER LAW!

Is Christ under the law?
Or let's put it this way is Grace under the law?

Michael547 or michael Smith, come and see this one o

MaxInDHouse:
If you can't convince others over what Jesus said then you're not competent enough to be a disciple of Christ! Act 17:3
Politicians often hire motivational speakers to convince people to vote for them such a speaker will be prepared to explain to the details everything you need to know or ask about the candidate he's speaking for.
For your information that's exactly the same thing a Christian should be able to do when it comes to preaching about Jesus of Nazareth!

unfortunately, not all Christians are motivational speakers

Veecruz:
Romans 2:14 KJV: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law,

This scripture you quoted is not saying that a Christian can exhaust and used up this grace through Christ.
It is simply saying that when the gentiles who do not have the law but keep the law by nature

And you already know that by nature, when you have been forgiven once, you put yourself in serious risk and jeopardy when you do the very things for which you have been forgiven as like the wicked servant.

all these things you are saying is according to the law.

What i have been saying all these while has nothing to do with the law.
I have been saying that we are saved through Grace which is in Christ Jesus, is that too difficult to understand?

So why are you now bringing the law into it?

Yes, I'm still waiting, where is the scripture Veecruz, lers see who is the Lier? ;

As for that one called Michael 547 that i ignored,I just dey laff am
You better follow and see how this Veezruz fellow knows nothing about the bible.

You people think religion is a straight line gragh?
Una go confuse

Veecruz:
So, you know that you have exhausted and used up your grace.

do you have any scriptural reference in support of this?

Next person

Michael547:
Did Jesus say that no matter what I do, I will enter heaven? Yes or no?

.
Ok, I'm out

MaxInDHouse:
Conviction is ability to EXPLAIN to others what you read if you can't convince others then the book in your hand is useless.
Imagine someone coming to you for the first time without prior knowledge of what the book contains will you just believe what he read out simply because it was written?
Most of you only claim you believe because that's what your parents or people around you also say you're not really convinced about what is written in the book!

Conviction is personal.
If you are not the person that is convinced you can't track it
You can't pin it down
You can only assume.
And your assumption can never be right about the person because the human mind is dynamic in thinking.

And moreover, you can't tell a 6 years old child to explain what he believe.
With what words can he possibly use to do the explanation?

He has believe, that is the most important thing

Michael547:
E no sure for you be that....you sef no dey convinced about your teaching

Like how?
Someone said something and i believe what he said.
You ask me the same thing and i show you the person that said it that made me to believe.

How then does that prove that I'm not convinced or are you me ?

Michael547:
Lol....answer yes or no na.

I should answer yes or no as if na me talk am?

dey their now

Michael547:
Meaning that no matter what I do, I will enter heaven, yes or no?

What else do you think about the scripture?

Michael547:
Oga you did not answer the question. Will I still make heaven even though I behave anyhow since I have grace?

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Your redemption is not in you behaving anyhow or not.
It is in Christ Jesus

Michael547:
Alright....So you are saying that I can behave anyhow I like as a believer of christ and still enter heaven because I have Grace, right?

Do you want to behave anyhow, is that what you want to do simply because you have grace?

Now, you choose what you want to do, like what he has said, all power have been given to you.
Because me i don't have power over your actions. My own is to do the right thing always because the grace i have, has absolutely nothing to do with what i do. He said my kingdom is not of this world.

But what is certain for sure is, whatsoever we sow in this world, that is what we are going to reap

nairalanda1:
Since it is not feasible, stop complaining about our bad universities then.

ofcourse people will always complain, there is no perfect school.
In Cambridge and Oxford people are complaining bitterly

The essence is to keep getting improvements from the authorities.

nairalanda1:
Better accept your bad universities because one billion dollars cannot fund 90 universities and countless number of primary and secondary schools adequately

whatever amount the government can afford to put into these schools is far better than not putting anything at all.
It is only an irresponsible government will abandon schools at this state the country is, in the name of removing subsidy

What we spend on education in Nigeria is what one university in USA spends on expanding facilities

Yet you want our universities to look like american universities

I just said that Covenant university for example has been privately funded heavily all these years. But did that make it look like American universities?
No way!

See why I am talking the way I talk.?

I understand where you are coming from.

What you said is a good idea, but it is not feasible in this current reality.

nairalanda1:
NO, but they are better than your average government university. And if we are not careful, they will soon surpass our government universites.

The only reason why they tend to be better than government universities for now is because this current government have failed to fully subsidize the operation/research costs of government universities, yet the citizens are paying tax heavily.
What an irresponsible government.

It isn't. The truth is, fees are too low to make our universities look good. It's harsh, but it is the truth...and it has been said for decades.

We are not saying collect fees.
We are saying subsize from government revenues,, is that too hard to do?

As a matter of fact subsidy is the best approach to a quality education and it infrastructure.
It is the only remedy for a third world country like Nigeria pending on when we exit that third world status into a developed country.
All countries that we call developed countries today used to subsidize their education and quality education for that matter. That is what pushed them to become developed countries today where most of the citizens can afford to pay the actual tuition meant for the standard quality like Cambridge and Oxford.
The government cannot come and remove subsidy when most of the citizens are poor. It will only suffocate the citizens.

And to fund those subsides, they charge obonge taxes

i tell you one thing, when the economy is revived, subsidy can never be an issue.
It will be done conveniently.
The government is complaining today that they cannot subsidize anymore because the economy is bad.

Denmark and Germany do free education. And they charge the type of tax rate that if tinubu bring am for Nigeria, there would be protests for days.

you can't compare the GDP of these countries to that of Nigeria that you will start taxing your citizens at the same level with them. If you want improved tax, do something to improve the economy.
And the only remedy at it stands now is deregulation of the oil sector since Nigeria main stay for now is crude oil.
That is the only thing that will improve the economy.
Then after that, the government can start making judicious use of the huge revenue that comes from there to improve education standards and even subsidize it until the citizens are wealthy enough to pay the real tuition fees.

USA has some of the best universites in the world...for fees starting at 5000 dollars, sometimes as high as 58000 dollars. Most Americans pay for unviersity via loans because they cannot afford it otherwise.

even with that there are still some universities that tuitions are subsidized for poor citizens in America.
Subsidy is everywhere.

nairalanda1:
Yes, he is right.

(If you want to quote me to abuse me, you will be reported to the moderators. You can be mature about disagreeing with me)

The harsh truth is that funding our universities is a difficult thing. IN 2009, ASUU and government signed an agreement. BY 2013, the money had not been paid, and by 2018, about less than one third of the money promised had been paid...and that's it.

IN 2018, the then VC of ABU, Zaria, gave a speech. IN the speech he stated that his overheads were 600million for the year. Government gave him 120 million and told him to find the rest of the money...like how? That is how he ended up saying ....you want cambridge level, charge cambridge level fees.

You cannot pay fees less than 200000 and expect quality worth 2billion naira. It is not possible. I know that most of us are poor....and so forth, but the thing is, unviersites cost money. Too much money to run, to pay teachers and other staff, to buy equipment. Our universites are in an atrocious state, and paying such low fees, and then pretending we can reach the level of a Harvard or Oxford is a joke. The oil money we have, even if we fight corruption, cannot raise our universites to high level, without us spending over half our budget on the thing.

Yes, our fathers went to university for free...back when there were less than 7 universites with about 4000 students or less. Govt then could manage. Today, the numbers are going up.

God knows I hate the Tinubu loan scheme, and I know it would fail, but what are the alternatives? Taxation, we no gree. Punish corruptuion, we gree...until it is our side (See how people were angry at the US senate for going after GEJ, AND I know how BAT People get annoyed when bullion vans and drug money is mentioned, and then Obi and Pandora and money in the car...and then Atiku own self...lol)...then we no go gree. Pay ASUU their money, we no gree. Diversify the economy, we no gree. Industrialise, we no gree.

Either we find 30 trillion naira every year. or more for education alone, or we just accept that tuition fees is all that is left. Nigeria is a broke nation. The corruption makes it worse. And even if we fought the corruption AS WE SHOULD...it would still not be enough.

Covenant university and other private universities that Tuition fees are not subsidized and they are collecting as much N1.5m ,have they reach Cambridge standard all these while?

You see, it's not about the subsidy, it's about the wickedness of Nigerians.
There are countries out there that their governments still subsidize education for their poor citizens, yet it does not change the standard.