₦airaland Forum

huxley:
Is it intelligence to deliberately incorporate fatal flaws in one's design?

Welcome Huxley!

We haven't gotten to the part where you guys can start displaying your evasive acrobatics yet 

If its not too much to ask, lets just focus on discussing whether or not there's intelligence behind creation or not. 

Thanks!

mazaje1:
I'll watch the video and post my comments after watching it. . . . .

Thanks a bunch bros! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

JeSoul:
Petres here you go. Click reply and quote this post to see the appropriate code/format.
[flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=688111496234161611&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>[/flash]

Thanks Jesoul. I've dood it!

davidylan:
alright, i'll just keep quiet and wait.

Thanks bros!

davidylan:
and your evidence that intelligent design doesnt exist is what?

@david please. . . I don't want this to turn into another free for all.

I just want them to watch the video and bring their refutations here and we'll talk.

Thanks a bunch!

mazaje1:
The endless appeal to inteligent desing again eh?. . . Your evidence to show that the god the white people brought to your great gand parents is the one that created the universe is WHAT?. . . . .

Mazaje,

For now (this thread), lets just focus on the first part/question - whether or not the universe came out of nowhere by itself, without any intelligence behind it, which (I hope I'm correct) is the view of every atheist, right?

We can talk about which God/god did later.

So please o.  .  .  I hope you really can find the time to watch the video for yourself. Your comments/contributions here will be highly appreciated.

Thanx!  

davidylan:
I will be watching this video and posting my own comments too. I've watched some of Lee Strobel's videos and the man is simply a treasure trove into how the mind of the atheist works.

Couldn't agree more!

I just wish all atheists would have the courage to do what he did - just follow the evidence!!!

davidylan:
I will be watching this video and posting my own comments too.

Your comments are welcome too!

Just dat I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics (according to mazaje) the atheists are going to perform here in defence of their worldview, in spite of the new evidence. They really do believe that the universe "popped out of their arses" (my favourite quote by Deep Sight).

Moderators,

How can I embed videos here?

I saw this video (in parts) about a year ago and since then made a mental note to bring it to the attention of the atheists in this forum. I think the issues raised in the video should give any sincere minded atheist (if there's anything like that) something to think about. 

Its an investigation carried out by a former atheist into the issue of intelligent design/neo-darwinism.

The video is a long one and depending on the speed of your internet connection. . . it might take a while. So I suggest you get some popcorn guguru & epa. 

I think its worth the wait. 


The Case for the Creator


[flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=688111496234161611&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>[/flash]


Here's the link to the video - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=688111496234161611&ei=pqyrS-DMBo7o-Qa0oMzLBg&q=the+case+fo+a+creator#

joe4christ:
TEARS DROPED MY CHEECK WHILE BROWSING THROUGH YOU VARIOUS POST ON THIS THREAD, IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO DENOUNCE YOUR FAITH AT GUN POINT OR RATHER AT THE FACE OF DEATH, THEN I WONDER HOW YOU'LL BE ABLE TO STAND THE DAYS OF GREAT TRIBULATIONS, WHERE YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO BUY OR SELL WITHOUT THE MARK OF THE BEAST {666} SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? WILL YOU EQUALY RENOUNCE CHRIST JUST IN ORDER TO SURVIVE? EVEN AT THE EXPENSE OF your SOUL? RETHINK![color=#990000][/color]

@joe4christ,

The reason why most of them have said (truthfully) that would deny Christ at gunpoint, is because they've been sold a watered down version of the gospel (of convenience) and don't even know what is ahead (the end times).

I think when the anti christ shows up, the chaff will be separated from the wheat, as quasi-christians "apply wisdom" and choose to stay alive and comfortable. . . while true Christians hold onto their faith and pay for it dearly.

Sprumbaba:
If peter, one of Jesus disciples could deny knowing jesus in the bible (At Gun Point).

Who am I not to denounce my faith at Gun point. The answer is YES. I will do it always whenever the opportunities present itself.

Hmmm,

Bros you forget that the same Peter who denied him then and all the other apostles who abandoned him then later on died the most gruesome deaths for the same Jesus they once denied.

What changed them?? They'd seen Jesus alive after he was crucified. That changed everything for them.

The same disciples who were in hiding after Jesus had been crucified were the same ones who boldly and fearlesssly preached him in the open in spite of persecutions and warnings from the authorities to desist from doing so, and eventually they paid with their lives.

So my take again, by God's grace I will not even consider denying him at all. Whether threatened with death or torture.

aletheia:
Yes . . .and No

From a human viewpoint-Yes

But from God's perspective-No

I agree!

davidylan:
The pope sleeps too!

Before nko??

Will You Denounce Your Faith At Gun Point?

Na im be say I don die be dat!

Brad Pitt as ACHILLES in "Troy"

I dunno!


I don ask tire. . .

OmniPotens:
Sorry if this hurts. Looking at your website alone can tell you surely can do the desired upgrade to your website's standard with that amount.

Right on point!

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KunleOshob:
Of recent i have noticed that my dear friend and "brother" has been missing from this forum and he hasn't been posting his usual heresies. Not that i miss him, i am actually relieved that he has stop poisoning people with false doctrines [at least on this forum] but i am just curious as to what's up with him. As the older members of this section know he is a pastor to the family members of the acting president and i remember i professized that "blessings" would soon start flowing his way as a result of his connections with the acting "first" family. I also professized that he might even be appointed pastor in the Aso rock chapel were the president worships along with all the christian power brokers in the presidency. I also professized that he would soon resign from pastor chris church company and go and start his own church business.

I suspect that joagabje as relocated to Aso rock [even if just as a lobbyist] and doors might soon start opening for him hence he has less time to chat on NL, anyone who knows the where abouts of pastor Joe should let be know on this thread so i can contact Aso rock through him i am also looking for a political appointment I promise to pay at least 50% tithe of all the egunje i collect in the course of the appointment to joagbaje's ministry.

Laff wan kill me

Even as a guy, I know I can't endure cheating at all. I believe its one thing that goes to the root of the contract/terms of relationship between a couple.

Why did the OP and everybody else daydreaming about the non-existence of Nazareth (and by extension, Jesus of Nazareth) run away??

Please come back!!!

I promise not to spoil your little party daydreaming for you again. . . I promise!

nuclearboy:
^^^ Thanks for the correction

I think many also have a "fatherless" complex and use these men as surrogate dads

I no fit laff

InesQor:
@petres_007: can you please provide background information for the criteria to enter heaven, using your BIBLE?

Err.  .  . we'll get to that later. 

I noticed your caveat "I may be erring" so I take that you're not putting this idea forward as gospel truth, right? 

On that note I'll like to ask one question: where does the sacrifice of Jesus Christ fit into this ideology (if I may call it that)? It seems pretty clear that that his death/sacrifice is absolutely not needed, if one were to go by this idea.

Again, I apologize for sidestepping your question but I really believe we'll get to that after clearing up some issues I consider important, before jumping to that.

I'm also sort of busy now and may not be able to reply to your response quickly but please go ahead and post. Thanks!

Jeez!

I really do have a lot to ask you guys - INesQor and Enigma.

This your absurd idea about non-believers being members of the body of Christ and "making heaven" is. . . I dunno what to say. Coming from guys like you. . . Well, I just hope I can find enough time online to join this discussion soon before it gets stale.

Cheers!

I'm sorry to spoil your little party. . .


Its okay. . . I know how hard you're trying. . . how much you wish he (Christ) didn't exist and that the bible isn't credible

More links to visit with evidence of Nazareth's existence at the time of Christ and by extension, the bible's credibility:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/dec/21/israel-archaeology

http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2009/12/first-century-house-excavated-in.html

http://www.zenit.org/article-27900?l=english

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/nazareth-dwelling-discovery-jesus

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136599.html

One thing I noticed when reading about the question of Nazareth's existence during the time of Jesus, which we will assume was around 4 BC - AD 40, was that much of the so-called "evidence" of Nazareth's non-existence comes from professed atheists, or rather anti-theists, who presumably have a vested interest in "disproving" the Bible.

Some other information to consider:

    * Nazareth, according to tradition, was a poor town, and one of less than great repute. The Bible states that people asked, "can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Perhaps Biblical Nazareth was a small gathering of homes, but not an officially-recognized town.

    * Lack of evidence is no evidence at all. We cannot assume that the lack of archaeological evidence for an ancient city or town called Nazareth proves that the city/town did not exist, only that its existence is not yet proven.


The name Naz′a�reth possibly means "Sprout-Town", which could indicate it's relative insignificance in comparison with other towns around it. Nazareth was located in the Lower Galilee, in a fairly well populated region, where Jesus was raised from about the age of three, and he lived most of his earthly life. (Lu 2:51,�52; Mt 13:54-56) Both Joseph and Mary were residents of Nazareth when Gabriel announced the approaching birth of Jesus. (Lu 1:26,�27; 2:4,�39) Later, after their return from Egypt, they took up residence in Nazareth again.�Mt 2:19-23; Lu 2:39.

Most scholars identify Nazareth with En Nasira (Nazerat) in Galilee. If this view is correct, Nazareth was situated in the low mountains just north of the Valley of Jezreel and approximately halfway between the south tip of the Sea of Galilee and the Mediterranean Coast. It was in a mountain basin with hills rising 120 to 150 m (400 to 500 ft) above it. The area was well populated, with a number of cities and towns near Nazareth. Also, it is estimated that one could walk from Nazareth to Ptolemais on the Mediterranean Coast in seven hours, to Tiberias on the Sea of Galilee in five hours, and to Jerusalem in three days.

It is difficult to say with certainty just how prominent Nazareth was in the first century. The most common view of commentators is that Nazareth was then a rather secluded, insignificant village. The principal Biblical statement used to support this view is what Nathanael said when he heard that Jesus was from there: �Can anything good come out of Nazareth?� (Joh 1:46) This has been taken by many to mean that Nazareth was looked down upon, even by people of Galilee. (Joh 21:2) Nazareth was near trade routes of the area but not directly on them. It was not mentioned by Josephus, though he referred to nearby Japhia as the largest fortified village of all Galilee, leading to the idea that Nazareth was eclipsed by its neighbor. Josephus did not mention many of the settlements in Galilee, so his not mentioning Nazareth might not be particularly significant.

Relating to archeology, time and again the Bible�s historical record has been substantiated by the uncovering of new information. The Assyrian king Sargon, for example, was for a long time known only from the Bible account at Isaiah 20:1. Critics for years claimed that Sargon never existed, and that the Bible was wrong. Then archaeological excavations produced the ruins of Sargon�s magnificent palace at Khorsabad, including many inscriptions regarding his rule. As a result, Sargon is now one of the best known of the Assyrian kings. Israeli historian Moshe Pearlman wrote: �Suddenly, sceptics who had doubted the authenticity even of the historical parts of the Old Testament began to revise their views.�

Another example of a discovery that confirms the historicalness of the Bible is given by Michael J.�Howard, who worked with the Caesarea expedition in Israel in 1979. �For 1,900�years,� he wrote, �Pilate existed only on the pages of the Gospels and in the vague recollections of Roman and Jewish historians. Next to nothing was known about his life. Some said he never even existed. But in 1961, an Italian archaeological expedition was working in the ruins of the ancient Roman theater in Caesarea. A workman overturned a stone that had been used for one of the stairways. On the reverse side was the following, partially-obscured inscription in Latin: �Caesariensibus Tiberium Pontius Pilatus Praefectus Iudaeae.� (To the people of Caesarea Tiberium Pontius Pilate Prefect of Judea.) It was a fatal blow to the doubts about Pilate�s existence. .�.�. "

These are only two examples of many in which the historical value of the Bible has been vindicated in the face of criticism. I am not personally aware of a lack of archelogical evidence in regard to the existence of Nazareth. A search of the subject only reveals critics asserting that there is no evidence. There does not appear to be such claims on the part of historians. But, even if there is such claims by those who are viewed as authorities on the subject, then we should keep in mind that every time such critism arises, it is always proven that the Bible was correct all along.



�Nazareth is not mentioned in ancient Jewish sources earlier than the third century AD. This likely reflects its lack of prominence both in Galilee and in Judaea,� writes American archaeologist James Strange.[4] Strange variously estimates Nazareth�s population at �roughly 1,600 to 2,000 people� in the time of Christ, and in another publication at �a maximum of about 480.� [5] However, some historians argue that the absence of textual references to Nazareth in the Old Testament and the Talmud, as well as the works of Josephus, suggest that a town called 'Nazareth' did not exist in Jesus' day.[6]



Nazareth was well known in Biblical times. In John's gospel, for example (John 1:45) , Philip, an apostle of Jesus, asks Nathaniel to come and see "Jesus of Nazareth, Son of Joseph". Nathaniel says to Philip "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" suggesting that Nazareth was already well known as a town of some ill repute. Sadly, the denial of atheists in even believing Nazareth exists let alone Jesus himself, is all too common. Clutching at straws like this is reminiscent of Apollo conspiracy theorists citing any 'evidence' that man never went to the moon.



Dr. Strange, mentioned above, also points out that when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD that the priests whose temple service was no longer required were dispersed. A list has been discovered by archaeologists which lists the places where the 24 families or courses of priests went to. This list, written in Aramaic records that one family went to Nazareth, which, though small, certainly existed then.

In addition to this, many archaeological digs have uncovered tombs from the first century near the city limits of Nazareth, thus establishing the boundary, as bodies were required to be buried outside the city. Thus, once again, evidence previously undiscovered has confirmed a Biblical detail.

Source: Interview with John Mcray PhD in 'The Case For Christ' by Lee Strobel pages 137-138

Thus it is totally incorrect to state: "Nazareth is not mentioned in ancient Jewish sources earlier than the third century AD." At the very least this comment is outdated by the discovery mentioned above, which must date from the late first or early second century.


--- Source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_was_Jesus_called_%27Jesus_of_Nazareth%27_when_there_was_no_town_or_city_named_Nazareth_2000_years_ago

nuclearboy:
@joe4christ:

People are judging him? Well how's this -

Did you ever read the Bible? Do you know you're not supposed to follow idolatry? When you make graven images of God like with the picture included in your message above, do you realise that is idolatry? Now telling you this - am I judging you or simply reminding you what the Bible says?

Better pick up a copy of the Word and read STUDY rather than reading daily prayer guides.

Corrected! 

btw.  .  . you know how it is now, they're taught that the word itself is "difficult to grasp". Thats why you need your pastor or church's devotional, where its "simplified" for you 

OMG! this so goooooood!!!! I noo even know which one I like pass sef. Nice one there!

Living legend ko, living legend ni.