₦airaland Forum

Enigma:
For some of these people, it seems that if Jesus Christ Himself were to come today and tell them that Oyaks is talking trash they will still follow Oyaks ---- that is the extent of the brainwashing! Afterall, [b]they have already denigrated the teachings of people whom Jesus Christ Himself appointed and delegated first-hand including the apostles James, Paul [/b]etc. when those teachings contradict some of the heterodox nonsense that Oyaks tickles their itching ears with.

[sighs]

And of all times, these people chose the wrong time end times to be like this.

mabell:
pastor chris never talked about cutting himself up but rather he talked about cutting out a growth on his body by the word of God.

Na wah o! 

@Mabell and @Joagbaje,
We're obviously talking about separate accounts here. In the video I saw, he said nothing about a growth.

Many thanks to @Utkomi who presented his objection to my post maturely and well enough.

But I maintain, I know what I heard and would like to leave it at that.

I really wish I could go back in time and somehow capture that video and post it here so we can get past that and discuss the real issue for which I started this thread - that the bible does not teach that believers are superhuman in anyway. That the scriptures used to teach this crap have been twisted, lifted out of their original context or simply misread. I couldn't care less if anyone (including Pastor Chris) believes he can cut his flesh out and put it back, or heal himself miraculously if he sustains an injury - but when such an individual twists the bible to preach that as Gospel truth, I have a problem with that.

Maybe you guys don't get it. I repeat, I used to be a member of his church. I remember how we used to be bombarded with the false message that we were some kind of superhumans but just need to grow our faith. I remember a lady friend of mine (also a member at the time) say that "one day, we'd be able to even walk across a highway and just stop all the vehicles coming with a wave of the hand or single word (whichever one she actually used).  I remember the excited response from all of us at that cell meeting years ago

People take the words of men like Mr. Oyaks as though they were God's very words - without questioning it at all. Forgetting all the biblical instructions in the scriptures to always exercise discernment. Sometimes I wonder where their allegiance lies. With God and his Christ, or with these false ministers who wrongly divide the word of truth and feed them all the fairy tales their itching ears want to hear.

@nuclearboy,
Nice illustration.

@Huxley,
I'm really getting bored of these your ABuzola-style attempts to undemine God/Chistianity. Er . . . you can do better

It was sometime around 10pm, three days to Christmas last December. I’d just finished my meal in a restaurant close to my hostel in school (UNILAG) and was just about leaving when I heard Pastor Chris’ voice over the TV (Atmosphere for Faith) and looked up hoping it wasn’t a mere ad and that the programme was really just about to start so I could watch. I hadn't had the time to watch him preach or listen to any of his tapes for quite a while so I felt this was a rare chance to do so and I could spare some extra 30 minutes. What’s more? I was in a really good mood! I mean, after a plate of well cooked egusi soup and eba (my favourite). I decided to relax and watch.

After the introductory montage a lady came on and did the usual prep talk. Something like – “get ready to hear the word of God from the man of God Pastor Chris”… bla, bla, bla. Then the main man himself came on. It was an excerpt from a full length video from a conference they had. He was mostly spewing out his usual crap about the Christian being more than meets the eye, in the sense that when you become a Christian, you become some kind of superhuman. And then he gave the most shocking example I'd ever heard, as an illustration.

He said “years ago when he first discovered these things”(the supposed secret about the superhuman capabilities of the Christian), he would cut some of his flesh out (pointing to his arm) and after some time, place the flesh back from where he cut it out and “decree” or “command” or “speak” the flesh back into place and before long, the cut out flesh would blend back into his body – the bleeding would stop, it would heal up and even look as if nothing happened there. No scars. No pains.

Fearfully looking around for the NL anti-SPAM bot robot 

Moderators,

Abeg now,


I really need to know whats wrong with the write-up that keeps triggering your anti-SPAM bot. Its really frustrating.

KunleOshob:
For the record [b]the Copy right for "Open Heavens" belongs to Pastor Adeboye and not the RCCG [/b]this implies that all proceeds of the sales go into his private pocket and not the ministry as some people are trying to infer on this forum. Pastor Adeboye is simply profiteering from the gospel through merchadizing it.

Is this true? Lawd of mercy! Never thought they'd go this far o!

And here I was wondering weting boys fit do to take hammer on time.

I need to start my own church, quick quick!

These past 3 weeks have not been very good for me on NL.

I've been trying to start a new thread in the religion section but everytime I tried, my thread got locked down and I lost my posting privileges with the accusation that I was trying to SPAM NL. Well, I tried complaining to the mods on the religion section but they couldn't help me but referred me here.

I also thought it might be a good idea to attach a copy of the text I was pasting to start the thread so you guys can see for yourself that its not SPAM in anyway (unless witches and wizards don pursue me reach NL )

Please, please help me o! Abeg. Fear no gree me try to start the thread again.

Attached is the write up that kept triggering your PSAM bot.

manmustwac:
was the write up u pasted trying to promote a business or adveritse something? I'll move this topic from religion to nairaland section coz other mods there would be able to advise u better

@manmustwac,
thanks for your response. I've not been able to post anything as the anti-spam bot took away my posting privileges for the umpteenth time. I'm already getting tired.

I need the help of any mod or supermod who can help me post my write up (meant for the religion section). Its no spam and I wonder what exactly it is I said in the write up that triggers the anti-spam bot. Maybe you guys can help me detect (though I don't intend to alter my write up in any way).

JUST help me get the thread started. I've attached a copy of my write up so you can see for your self and do something about it, ,. Thanx

Pastor Chris & The Superhuman Complex part I - 1 Corinthians 5:17

It was sometime around 10pm, three days to Christmas last December. I’d just finished my meal in a restaurant close to my hostel in school (UNILAG) and was just about leaving when I heard Pastor Chris’ voice over the TV (Atmosphere for Faith) and looked up hoping it wasn’t a mere ad and that the programme was really just about to start so I could watch. I hadn't had the time to watch him preach or listen to any of his tapes for quite a while so I felt this was a rare chance to do so and I could spare some extra 30 minutes. What’s more? I was in a really good mood! I mean, after a plate of well cooked egusi soup and eba (my favourite). I decided to relax and watch.

After the introductory montage a lady came on and did the usual prep talk. Something like – “get ready to hear the word of God from the man of God Pastor Chris”… bla, bla, bla. Then the main man himself came on. It was an excerpt from a full length video from a conference they had. He was mostly spewing out his usual crap about the Christian being more than meets the eye, in the sense that when you become a Christian, you become some kind of superhuman. And then he gave the most shocking example I'd ever heard, as an illustration.

He said “years ago when he first discovered these things”(the supposed secret about the superhuman capabilities of the Christian), he would cut some of his flesh out (pointing to his arm) and after some time, place the flesh back from where he cut it out and “decree” or “command” or “speak” the flesh back into place and before long, the cut out flesh would blend back into his body – the bleeding would stop, it would heal up and even look as if nothing happened there. No scars. No pains.


[size=14pt]Why I brought this up[/size]

Simple answer – the bible nowhere teaches this megacrap delusion! [/color]The bible shows us clearly that the change a person experiences when he becomes a Christian isn’t physical and not the way pastor Chris and others like him teach it. Below is the verse of scripture he normally uses to support his “Superhuman gospel”, as I like to call it.

[color=#990000]17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [/i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

The problem comes from the part where it says “he is a new creation”. I remember he (Pastor Chris) said some years ago in other videos, that this meant that the Christian is a “new species”- “one that didn’t exist before”. "One made in the class of God".

Well, this is nowhere near what the bible is actually talking about when it speaks of the born again Christian being a new creature.


[size=14pt]A common mistake[/size]

One of the most common mistakes the professing church makes today when trying to interpret the scriptures is to pluck a verse out of its original context and then twist it to mean whatever they want it to. That’s called lifting scripture out of context!

Back in SSCE days, we were taught the importance of interpreting sentences or statements in the context of the passage it was lifted from. I haven’t taken a look at recent UME Use of English past question papers but I can tell you, as a veteran, that it is tested every single year.

I remember when we were being taught to attempt those kinds of questions in UME prep classes. We were warned over and over again not to give in to the temptation of interpreting the statement/sentence with any preconceived notions or ideas we may have had about the statement or sentence. I love JAMB! They’re very clever. If you tried to answer the question with a preconceived notion, which is usually a common one they know most people will be familiar with, you will surely find that answer among the options! And it was always the wrong answer to pick.

What were they trying to teach us? To learn to interpret the things we read – comments, statements and sentences that are part of a larger body of text, IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT! And that surely includes bible verses and passages. And we’re going to correct that mistake here, as regards 2 Corinthians 5:17, as it is (to the best of my knowledge) one of the verses of scripture that’s commonly abused in this way. Let’s take another look at it:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

You see, by isolating this verse of scripture, it’s very easy to impose any crazy interpretation to it, like most of our current crop of preachers do. Some of them in ignorance, others deliberately. And this is what I believe Mr. Oyakhilome has done (does, actually, as it’s one of his favourites) with this verse.

[size=14pt]Comparing scripture with scripture[/size]

One more thing before I continue. The next most common error modern-day church folk make in interpreting scripture is that they fail to compare it with other related scriptures. This is the proper thing to do when the original, immediate context of the verse(s) doesn’t seem to reveal much about the verse in question. Like someone put it, you let “scripture interpret scripture”.

And this is what we’re going to do in trying to understand what 2 Corinthians 5:17 really is about because the immediate context doesn’t say much to completely clear up the air about the meaning of verse 17, unless you start reading from chapter 1 verse 1 and pay close attention. I encourage you to please make out time and read 2 Corinthians from the very beginning right up to the end of chapter 5 or better still, all the way to chapter 13, so you can get the full picture. Paul nowhere said anything about being superhuman. While reading, please remember the bible originally wasn’t written in verses and chapters. That was introduced much later for easy referencing.

You’ll agree with me that 1 Corinthians chapters 1 – 5 would be a little too much to paste here right? So we’ll look at another verse that explains it better. Thankfully it’s Paul writing here too.

22 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts,

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let everyone speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,

32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
[color=#990000][/color]
- Ephesians 4

I think verses 22-24 really clarify what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 5:17. The Christian is “renewed” and given “a new heart”. A heart that now not only longs to live the holy and righteous life God has always desired, but is now empowered by God to do so. Biblically, this is a marked departure from the norm with unsaved people (Jeremiah 17:9).

So Paul wasn’t talking about people becoming new, “superhuman” creatures when they become Christians. Like a friend of mine pointed out when speaking about this issue sometime ago, everything about the person remains the same. His name remains the same, his face remains the same, his wife and kids remain the same, his job remains the same, his bank account remains the same and err… his car doesn’t suddenly turn into a space ship.

Christians are completely normal everyday people with no superhuman abilities whatsoever, except for God’s saving grace that cleanses us from sin as result of faith in work of Christ and a new heart to live righteously for God right in the midst of a sinful and rebellious world. And no, Christians can’t cut out their flesh, place it back and then decree it back into place.

Soon I hope to do a follow up write up called the “The Superhuman Complex part II – The lie that Christians can’t be sick”.

Other scriptures to read up: Ephesians 2:1-10, Titus 2:11-14, Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:26.

After losing my posting privileges twice in a row for trying to start a thread here in the religion section (I was accused of trying to SPAM NL )

I think its wise to ask you guys for help as fear no gree me paste my write up here (for the thread I want to start).

SO please, can you guys help me out?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-395154.0.html#msg5475115

It was sometime around 10pm, three days to Christmas last December. I’d just finished my meal in a restaurant close to my hostel in school (UNILAG) and was just about leaving when I heard Pastor Chris’ voice over the TV (Atmosphere for Faith) and looked up hoping it wasn’t a mere ad and that the programme was really just about to start so I could watch. I hadn't had the time to watch him preach or listen to any of his tapes for quite a while so I felt this was a rare chance to do so and I could spare some extra 30 minutes. What’s more? I was in a really good mood! I mean, after a plate of well cooked egusi soup and eba (my favourite). I decided to relax and watch.

After the introductory montage a lady came on and did the usual prep talk. Something like – “get ready to hear the word of God from the man of God Pastor Chris”… bla, bla, bla. Then the main man himself came on. It was an excerpt from a full length video from a conference they had. He was mostly spewing out his usual crap about the Christian being more than meets the eye, in the sense that when you become a Christian, you become some kind of superhuman. And then he gave the most shocking example I'd ever heard, as an illustration.

He said “years ago when he first discovered these things”(the supposed secret about the superhuman capabilities of the Christian), he would cut some of his flesh out (pointing to his arm) and after some time, place the flesh back from where he cut it out and “decree” or “command” or “speak” the flesh back into place and before long, the cut out flesh would blend back into his body – the bleeding would stop, it would heal up and even look as if nothing happened there. No scars. No pains.


[size=14pt]Why I brought this up[/size]

Simple answer – the bible nowhere teaches this megacrap delusion! [/color]The bible shows us clearly that the change a person experiences when he becomes a Christian isn’t physical and not the way pastor Chris and others like him teach it. Below is the verse of scripture he normally uses to support his “Superhuman gospel”, as I like to call it.

[color=#990000]17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [/i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

The problem comes from the part where it says “he is a new creation”. I remember he (Pastor Chris) said some years ago in other videos, that this meant that the Christian is a “new species”- “one that didn’t exist before”. "One made in the class of God".

Well, this is nowhere near what the bible is actually talking about when it speaks of the born again Christian being a new creature.


[size=14pt]A common mistake[/size]

One of the most common mistakes the professing church makes today when trying to interpret the scriptures is to pluck a verse out of its original context and then twist it to mean whatever they want it to. That’s called lifting scripture out of context!

Back in SSCE days, we were taught the importance of interpreting sentences or statements in the context of the passage it was lifted from. I haven’t taken a look at recent UME Use of English past question papers but I can tell you, as a veteran, that it is tested every single year.

I remember when we were being taught to attempt those kinds of questions in UME prep classes. We were warned over and over again not to give in to the temptation of interpreting the statement/sentence with any preconceived notions or ideas we may have had about the statement or sentence. I love JAMB! They’re very clever. If you tried to answer the question with a preconceived notion, which is usually a common one they know most people will be familiar with, you will surely find that answer among the options! And it was always the wrong answer to pick.

What were they trying to teach us? To learn to interpret the things we read – comments, statements and sentences that are part of a larger body of text, IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT! And that surely includes bible verses and passages. And we’re going to correct that mistake here, as regards 2 Corinthians 5:17, as it is (to the best of my knowledge) one of the verses of scripture that’s commonly abused in this way. Let’s take another look at it:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

You see, by isolating this verse of scripture, it’s very easy to impose any crazy interpretation to it, like most of our current crop of preachers do. Some of them in ignorance, others deliberately. And this is what I believe Mr. Oyakhilome has done (does, actually, as it’s one of his favourites) with this verse.

[size=14pt]Comparing scripture with scripture[/size]

One more thing before I continue. The next most common error modern-day church folk make in interpreting scripture is that they fail to compare it with other related scriptures. This is the proper thing to do when the original, immediate context of the verse(s) doesn’t seem to reveal much about the verse in question. Like someone put it, you let “scripture interpret scripture”.

And this is what we’re going to do in trying to understand what 2 Corinthians 5:17 really is about because the immediate context doesn’t say much to completely clear up the air about the meaning of verse 17, unless you start reading from chapter 1 verse 1 and pay close attention. I encourage you to please make out time and read 2 Corinthians from the very beginning right up to the end of chapter 5 or better still, all the way to chapter 13, so you can get the full picture. Paul nowhere said anything about being superhuman. While reading, please remember the bible originally wasn’t written in verses and chapters. That was introduced much later for easy referencing.

You’ll agree with me that 1 Corinthians chapters 1 – 5 would be a little too much to paste here right? So we’ll look at another verse that explains it better. Thankfully it’s Paul writing here too.

22 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts,

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let everyone speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,

32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
[color=#990000][/color]
- Ephesians 4

I think verses 22-24 really clarify what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 5:17. The Christian is “renewed” and given “a new heart”. A heart that now not only longs to live the holy and righteous life God has always desired, but is now empowered by God to do so. Biblically, this is a marked departure from the norm with unsaved people (Jeremiah 17:9).

So Paul wasn’t talking about people becoming new, “superhuman” creatures when they become Christians. Like a friend of mine pointed out when speaking about this issue sometime ago, everything about the person remains the same. His name remains the same, his face remains the same, his wife and kids remain the same, his job remains the same, his bank account remains the same and err… his car doesn’t suddenly turn into a space ship.

Christians are completely normal everyday people with no superhuman abilities whatsoever, except for God’s saving grace that cleanses us from sin as result of faith in work of Christ and a new heart to live righteously for God right in the midst of a sinful and rebellious world. And no, Christians can’t cut out their flesh, place it back and then decree it back into place.

Soon I hope to do a follow up article called the “The Superhuman Complex part II – The lie that Christians can’t be sick” to see what the bible really says (or does not say) about Christians being sick.

Other scriptures to read up: Ephesians 2:1-10, Titus 2:11-14, Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:26.

toba:
U just as cr.azy as your prophet.No1 wants ceasefire.War continues.God saved your soul dat i didnt find u today at d central mosque.U would av been gone.I waited since 11:50am-2.00pm, but u absconded.I will catch u soon

Haba @Toba,

E don reach dis level?

It was sometime around 10pm, three days to Christmas last December. I’d just finished my meal in a restaurant close to my hostel in school (UNILAG) and was just about leaving when I heard Pastor Chris’ voice over the TV (Atmosphere for Faith) and looked up hoping it wasn’t a mere ad and that the programme was really just about to start so I could watch. I hadn't had the time to watch him preach or listen to any of his tapes for quite a while so I felt this was a rare chance to do so and I could spare some extra 30 minutes. What’s more? I was in a really good mood! I mean, after a plate of well cooked egusi soup and eba (my favourite). I decided to relax and watch.

After the introductory montage a lady came on and did the usual prep talk. Something like – “get ready to hear the word of God from the man of God Pastor Chris”… bla, bla, bla. Then the main man himself came on. It was an excerpt from a full length video from a conference they had. He was mostly spewing out his usual crap about the Christian being more than meets the eye, in the sense that when you become a Christian, you become some kind of superhuman. And then he gave the most shocking example I'd ever heard, as an illustration.

He said “years ago when he first discovered these things”(the supposed secret about the superhuman capabilities of the Christian), he would cut some of his flesh out (pointing to his arm) and after some time, place the flesh back from where he cut it out and “decree” or “command” or “speak” the flesh back into place and before long, the cut out flesh would blend back into his body – the bleeding would stop, it would heal up and even look as if nothing happened there. No scars. No pains.


[size=14pt]Why I brought this up[/size]

Simple answer – the bible nowhere teaches this megacrap delusion! [/color]The bible shows us clearly that the change a person experiences when he becomes a Christian isn’t physical and not the way pastor Chris and others like him teach it. Below is the verse of scripture he normally uses to support his “Superhuman gospel”, as I like to call it.

[color=#990000]17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [/i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

The problem comes from the part where it says “he is a new creation”. I remember he (Pastor Chris) said some years ago in other videos, that this meant that the Christian is a “new species”- “one that didn’t exist before”. "One made in the class of God".

Well, this is nowhere near what the bible is actually talking about when it speaks of the born again Christian being a new creature.


[size=14pt]A common mistake[/size]

One of the most common mistakes the professing church makes today when trying to interpret the scriptures is to pluck a verse out of its original context and then twist it to mean whatever they want it to. That’s called lifting scripture out of context!

Back in SSCE days, we were taught the importance of interpreting sentences or statements in the context of the passage it was lifted from. I haven’t taken a look at recent UME Use of English past question papers but I can tell you, as a veteran, that it is tested every single year.

I remember when we were being taught to attempt those kinds of questions in UME prep classes. We were warned over and over again not to give in to the temptation of interpreting the statement/sentence with any preconceived notions or ideas we may have had about the statement or sentence. I love JAMB! They’re very clever. If you tried to answer the question with a preconceived notion, which is usually a common one they know most people will be familiar with, you will surely find that answer among the options! And it was always the wrong answer to pick.

What were they trying to teach us? To learn to interpret the things we read – comments, statements and sentences that are part of a larger body of text, IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT! And that surely includes bible verses and passages. And we’re going to correct that mistake here, as regards 2 Corinthians 5:17, as it is (to the best of my knowledge) one of the verses of scripture that’s commonly abused in this way. Let’s take another look at it:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. [i]
– 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

You see, by isolating this verse of scripture, it’s very easy to impose any crazy interpretation to it, like most of our current crop of preachers do. Some of them in ignorance, others deliberately. And this is what I believe Mr. Oyakhilome has done (does, actually, as it’s one of his favourites) with this verse.

[size=14pt]Comparing scripture with scripture[/size]

One more thing before I continue. The next most common error modern-day church folk make in interpreting scripture is that they fail to compare it with other related scriptures. This is the proper thing to do when the original, immediate context of the verse(s) doesn’t seem to reveal much about the verse in question. Like someone put it, you let “scripture interpret scripture”.

And this is what we’re going to do in trying to understand what 2 Corinthians 5:17 really is about because the immediate context doesn’t say much to completely clear up the air about the meaning of verse 17, unless you start reading from chapter 1 verse 1 and pay close attention. I encourage you to please make out time and read 2 Corinthians from the very beginning right up to the end of chapter 5 or better still, all the way to chapter 13, so you can get the full picture. Paul nowhere said anything about being superhuman. While reading, please remember the bible originally wasn’t written in verses and chapters. That was introduced much later for easy referencing.

You’ll agree with me that 1 Corinthians chapters 1 – 5 would be a little too much to paste here right? So we’ll look at another verse that explains it better. Thankfully it’s Paul writing here too.

22 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts,

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let everyone speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,

32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
[color=#990000][/color]
- Ephesians 4

I think verses 22-24 really clarify what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 5:17. The Christian is “renewed” and given “a new heart”. A heart that now not only longs to live the holy and righteous life God has always desired, but is now empowered by God to do so. Biblically, this is a marked departure from the norm with unsaved people (Jeremiah 17:9).

So Paul wasn’t talking about people becoming new, “superhuman” creatures when they become Christians. Like a friend of mine pointed out when speaking about this issue sometime ago, everything about the person remains the same. His name remains the same, his face remains the same, his wife and kids remain the same, his job remains the same, his bank account remains the same and err… his car doesn’t suddenly turn into a space ship.

Christians are completely normal everyday people with no superhuman abilities whatsoever, except for God’s saving grace that cleanses us from sin as result of faith in work of Christ and a new heart to live righteously for God right in the midst of a sinful and rebellious world. And no, Christians can’t cut out their flesh, place it back and then decree it back into place.

Soon I hope to do a follow up article called the “The Superhuman Complex part II – The lie that Christians can’t be sick”.

Other scriptures to read up: Ephesians 2:1-10, Titus 2:11-14, Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:26.

woye77:
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening." Leviticus 15:19

this is what the bible says but nowadays a lot of churches do not obey this concept - is it right for a woman to be in church during her monthly flow?

@woye77,

You sound like you're new here. If not, did you miss all the threads on the old and new covenants?

The law you quoted from Leviticus 15 is a part of the first covenant God had with Israel (not with Nigeria or any other Gentile country like our greedy pastors of today would have us believe ) which ended with the death of Christ. Christians live under a new dispensation and have a new covenant with God, brokered by Christ now, and not Moses (who himself was only pointing forward to Christ).

Its because of this new covenant that me and you (believing you're not a jew) can have a relationship with God, as the first covenant was exclusive to Israel - Abraham's physical descendants through Isaac and Jacob. There are plenty of scriptures on this. Here's one of my favourites (Ephesians 2):


11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands--

12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by [size=14pt]abolishing[/size] in his flesh [size=14pt]the law[/size] of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end.

How does this answer your question? Simple! Christians are not required to keep the law of Moses (we're actually warned very seriously, not to dig up anything from it). So whether its this one you brought up (women entering "God's temple" during their period, or anyother from old covenant. We have no business keeping them!

And besides, under the new covenant, there is no building or tent-like temple of God anymore to which we can go and expect to find the presence of God or worship etc.

Err,  Try studying the new testament for your self and pay close attention. I promise it won't bite,  too much 

It was sometime around 10pm, three days to Christmas last December. I’d just finished my meal in a restaurant close to my hostel in school (UNILAG) and was just about leaving when I heard Pastor Chris’ voice over the TV (Atmosphere for Faith) and looked up hoping it wasn’t a mere ad and that the programme was really just about to start so I could watch. I hadn't had the time to watch him preach or listen to any of his tapes for quite a while so I felt this was a rare chance to do so and I could spare some extra 30 minutes. What’s more? I was in a really good mood! I mean, after a plate of well cooked egusi soup and eba (my favourite). I decided to relax and watch.

After the introductory montage a lady came on and did the usual prep talk. Something like – “get ready to hear the word of God from the man of God Pastor Chris”… bla, bla, bla. Then the main man himself came on. It was an excerpt from a full length video from a conference they had. He was mostly spewing out his usual crap about the Christian being more than meets the eye, in the sense that when you become a Christian, you become some kind of superhuman. And then he gave the most shocking example I'd ever heard, as an illustration.

He said “years ago when he first discovered these things”(the supposed secret about the superhuman capabilities of the Christian), he would cut some of his flesh out (pointing to his arm) and after some time, place the flesh back from where he cut it out and “decree” or “command” or “speak” the flesh back into place and before long, the cut out flesh would blend back into his body – the bleeding would stop, it would heal up and even look as if nothing happened there. No scars. No pains.

Why I brought this up

Simple answer – the bible nowhere teaches this megacrap delusion! The bible shows us clearly that the change a person experiences when he becomes a Christian isn’t physical and not the way pastor Chris and others like him teach it. Below is the verse of scripture he normally uses to support his “Superhuman gospel”, as I like to call it.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. – 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

The problem comes from the part where it says “he is a new creation”. I remember he (Pastor Chris) said some years ago in other videos, that this meant that the Christian is a “new species”- “one that didn’t exist before”. "One made in the class of God".

Well, this is nowhere near what the bible is actually talking about when it speaks of the born again Christian being a new creature.

A common mistake

One of the most common mistakes the professing church makes today when trying to interpret the scriptures is to pluck a verse out of its original context and then twist it to mean whatever they want it to. That’s called lifting scripture out of context!

Back in SSCE days, we were taught the importance of interpreting sentences or statements in the context of the passage it was lifted from. I haven’t taken a look at recent UME Use of English past question papers but I can tell you, as a veteran, that it is tested every single year.

I remember when we were being taught to attempt those kinds of questions in UME prep classes. We were warned over and over again not to give in to the temptation of interpreting the statement/sentence with any preconceived notions or ideas we may have had about the statement or sentence. I love JAMB! They’re very clever. If you tried to answer the question with a preconceived notion, which is usually a common one they know most people will be familiar with, you will surely find that answer among the options! And it was always the wrong answer to pick.

What were they trying to teach us? To learn to interpret the things we read – comments, statements and sentences that are part of a larger body of text, IN THEIR PROPER CONTEXT! And that surely includes bible verses and passages. And we’re going to correct that mistake here, as regards 2 Corinthians 5:17, as it is (to the best of my knowledge) one of the verses of scripture that’s commonly abused in this way. Let’s take another look at it:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. – 2 Corinthians 5:17 (RSV)

You see, by isolating this verse of scripture, it’s very easy to impose any crazy interpretation to it, like most of our current crop of preachers do. Some of them in ignorance, others deliberately. And this is what I believe Mr. Oyakhilome has done (does, actually, as it’s one of his favourites) with this verse.

Comparing scripture with scripture

One more thing before I continue. The next most common error modern-day church folk make in interpreting scripture is that they fail to compare it with other related scriptures. This is the proper thing to do when the original, immediate context of the verse(s) doesn’t seem to reveal much about the verse in question. Like someone put it, you let “scripture interpret scripture”.

And this is what we’re going to do in trying to understand what 2 Corinthians 5:17 really is about because the immediate context doesn’t say much to completely clear up the air about the meaning of verse 17, unless you start reading from chapter 1 verse 1 and pay close attention. I encourage you to please make out time and read 2 Corinthians from the very beginning right up to the end of chapter 5 or better still, all the way to chapter 13, so you can get the full picture. Paul nowhere said anything about being superhuman. While reading, please remember the bible originally wasn’t written in verses and chapters. That was introduced much later for easy referencing.

You’ll agree with me that 1 Corinthians chapters 1 – 5 would be a little too much to paste here right? So we’ll look at another verse that explains it better. Thankfully it’s Paul writing here too.

22 Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts,

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

24 and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let everyone speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,

32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

- Ephesians 4

I think verses 22-24 really clarify what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 5:17. The Christian is “renewed” and given “a new heart”. A heart that now not only longs to live the holy and righteous life God has always desired, but is now empowered by God to do so. Biblically, this is a marked departure from the norm with unsaved people (Jeremiah 17:9).

So Paul wasn’t talking about people becoming new, “superhuman” creatures when they become Christians. Like a friend of mine pointed out when speaking about this issue sometime ago, everything about the person remains the same. His name remains the same, his face remains the same, his wife and kids remain the same, his job remains the same, his bank account remains the same and err… his car doesn’t suddenly turn into a space ship.

Christians are completely normal everyday people with no superhuman abilities whatsoever, except for God’s saving grace that cleanses us from sin as result of faith in work of Christ and a new heart to live righteously for God right in the midst of a sinful and rebellious world. And no, Christians can’t cut out their flesh, place it back and then decree it back into place.

Soon I hope to do a follow up article called the “The Superhuman Complex part II – The lie that Christians can’t be sick”.

Other scriptures to read up: Ephesians 2:1-10, Titus 2:11-14, Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:26.

@David,

You too haven't been posting much on NL lately.

And em, have you had the time to post any new articles on your blog? I really enjoyed reading the articles there.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=393207.msg5455651#msg5455651 date=1265388996]Tudór is still here chilln. . .been a bit busy these past few weeks and pop into NL wenever i come online.

Davidylan had been missing for a while too and I thought you got banned.

Mazaje, where is bindex?

As for noetic, he disappeared after several harrasments/bans from the muslim mods. . . I only too well know how he must feel. I just hope he doesn't give up. . . .noetic come back!!

Banom told me he is playing politics in anambara/abia or whichever for soludo. . . I can only hope he dozn't get shot.[/quote]OMG!!!

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=393207.msg5455933#msg5455933 date=1265391044]ah ah ah. . .this is not good oh. . .why didn't he come share the testimony with us on NL.

Anyway sha I wish him goodluck. Just hope one crazy loon won't board his plane and say he wants to do jihad.[/quote]

karo93:
THE IDEA IS GOTTEN FROM THE PAGAN CULTS
It is known that the egyptian goddess isis and greek goddess artemis were venerated in the same way and were refered to using the term 'star of the sea' which is sung in pilgrimage honoring mary.
In her portrait she is depicted as the madonna with a corona of stars on a crescent moon. this portrait is similar to the portrait of the egyptian goddess isis
it is said that the church adopted this practice of mother of God who is a more comforting figure so that people would not be left in the fear of a "punishing" God

Well said!

Joagbaje:
She was just a vessel that God used to bring forth the messsiah, Nothing more . She didnt believe in Jesus at first but later She had to believe in Jesus Christ as her saviour and be born again like any other person or else she would have ended up in hell and lake of fire after death. But She was wise, She eventually got born again, recieved the holyghost ,she prayed in tongues.

Acts 1:13-14
And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. [14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

besides that nothing more. Worshiping her or praying to her is idolatory. And those who admire her sould follow her step by being born again and recieving the holyghost.

GBAM!!! Don't think I could've said it better myself.

immargee:
why cant i find any videos of pastor anita preaching?

Ol' boy see question o!

denitro:
I will set it up.
Reason 1 - Being a good coach is based on 2 factor - Attribute and Result.
A good coach has always been judged based on his result.
RESULTS
Amodu did not qualify us for the world cup, Mozambique did
The world cup is not a training ground, if you don't know what you are doing you will be disgraced.

Amodu fumbled and flopped in 3 big matches during the Nations cup - Egypt, Zambia and Ghana.
He had more than 2 years to present a world class team, what difference will he possibly make in 4 months

Amodu has not improved in his coaching abilities, he led Nigeria to a similar position years ago.
Old Amodu almost relegated Orlando Pirates whilst as a coach with them, he was stoned and booed off before sacked. He cannot change his game plan and is short of ideas when under pressure

Reason 2 -  A good coach must be
1. Accepted
2. A good motivator
3. Respected by his team and can change and demand perfection from his players
4. One who is proactive and can tell an unfit player a mile away
5. One who doesn't believe in destiny
6. One who can discover new players and lead them to the zenith in football - pls tell me one player that Amodu has discover - Mohammed gamba etc.


Reason 3. The super eagles coach should be a world class coach.
Berti Vogt was sacked as a result of poor performance.
Take a close look at Amodu's team, it is a reversed version of Berti vogt's team, Berti Vogts lost to ghana, i bet you if Nigeria had met Zambia, then we would have beat them then lost to Ghana to the semi finals. They had no problem sacking berti vogts which I clearly supported but why have cold feets regarding Amodu, because he is a Nigerian.
Call a spade a spade. Amodu will not take us beyond the first round in the world cup. Why experiment with him, let us get a coach now that will take us to the world cup and then continue and possibly take us to the next world cup.
That to me makes sense.

well said bro! well said  

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=391636.msg5437857#msg5437857 date=1265184166]If you pay the tithe and it so happens you run out of money and can't make rent, would the pastor help you pay the rent?[/quote]Good question!

And the answer is a clear NO.

Annunaki:
@topic
Another unsriptural pentecostal scam initiated and promoted by that notorious criminal matthew a$$himolowo.

Laff wan kill me! 

P.S. I remember those days when we dey go the guy programme for mende,  Chei! Thank God I never had money to respond to those many calls to sow fall mugu. Na my transport money and time dey vex me now. 

Will look it up right away.

Thanks guys!

[quote author= link=topic=390850.msg5426001#msg5426001 date=1265030661]Fastest way is to download it. I think you will find something like cool dropdown menus on
dynamic drive. That menu is best developed with a framework like jQuery, MooTools, Ext or any other library.[/quote]And where can I download it from?

Please visit the link: http://kb.mediatemple.net/questions/522/How+can+I+setup+email+in+Outlook+2007%3F

I'm a designer and would like to make cool drop down menus like what they have on  that site. Need help learning it.

A link to a well written tutorial will do. 

Thanks Y'all!

P.S. If you can't see the drop down menus I'm talking about, just move your pointer around the area near the "login" button

Hey nice joke there.

@OP,

Nope, the priest was too skillful to lie! I for like learn work for him hand

hi! 

Oya,  wey my  ?

Hope say u no be guy/gay o,  this one wey u no declare your gender 

Jeez,  the Council of Nicaea again? 

REALKINGSON:
OGAGA THE SATANIST NOW A CHRISTIAN.http://us.myspace.com/ogaga4luv007.

Not sure whether to get excited or not,

[quote author=d.diamond link=topic=388348.msg5398080#msg5398080 date=1264612469]all form of negativity tested and proven

[/quote]Haba, d.diamond, "all forms of negativity"? Then you're simply not ready for a relationship.