₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob:
Whether they do business or not no true christian preacher ought to preach or collect tithes as it is clearly NOT a christian doctrine handed down to us by either christ or the apostles but it was arrived at after twisting and amending the levitcal laws on tithing meant for the jewish people practising the Jewish religion which is totally different from christianity.

True words. 

The very reason why I plan to make you the chief tax tithe collector in the church business I want to start. I've already started the registration at CAC. 

On a serious note.  .  .

Most people today will fight the truth about tithing and other resurrected & twisted levitical laws because it gives them a way to have a hold on God.

In Christianity everything is based on God's grace in Christ, from start to finish. Its the reason why Jesus talked about receiving his kingdom as a little child would. Today they're wrongly taught that to get God committed to making life heaven on earth for you, you have to tithe or else.  .  .

Makes me wonder why God didn't wait for us to do something before planning and executing our salvation through Christ. 

While we were yet sinners, Christ died.  .  .

adetoru:
Remember when David had the opportunity to kill Saul but he didn't?It's because Saul was God's own anointed and no one,not even another anointed has the right to destroy God's anointed.When being critical,be careful that you don't grieve the Holy Spirit,leave judgement for Jehovah,lest you be judged.
Paul said we should take heed if we think we are standing,lest we fall.

What makes you think these men are anointed? Anyway, thats talk for another day sha, God willing.

Survivor9:
I believe in God and the Lord Jesus Christ. However, i don't believe all these our modern day pastors are real.
I feel they're brainwashing people and are even worse off morally than their congregation.
They exploit and manipulate their members. Jimmy Swaggat, Benny Hinn etc have all disappointed us as christains.

Please am i still a real Christian after disregarding these pastors, should i be condenmed for not worshipping them?
Seems thats what's in vogue now, people practically worship their pastors. I have little regards for them and can tell them off if they dare challange me.
Fellow christains, do you think i should have a change of attitude towards pastors?

No, you're generally headed in the right direction. The man worship going on in the church today is utterly shameful & unscriptural, to say the least. Study the bible for yourself and don't accept any teaching o practice that goes against God's rightly divided word, regardless of who the GO or pastor or prophet is. Mass deception is a major sign of the endtime.

Cheers!  

[quote author=sting_224 link=topic=419267.msg5763509#msg5763509 date=1269510257]Innkeeper: The room is 10000 naira a night. It's 2000 naira if you
make your own bed.

Guest: I'll make my own bed.

Innkeeper: Good, I'll get you some nails and wood. [/quote]

this was really good!

OMG!

This is great!!!

hmmm, a bit late, but am watching 24 season 8 and its delicous. Almost killed my self with anxiety waiting & looking for season 7 this time last year, I decided to wait till I can get season 8 from any DVD vendor.

Who says Jack Bauer is not needed?? Make dem no ty anything funy o! Or else. . .

ogajim:
I don't see anyway I can defend this even if I had a law degree. I have worshiped at a couple of RCCG Churches for the past 3 years or so but don't see myself as a recipient of that indoctrination because I simply don't fall for cheap tricks, it's been a matter of me following the Barean practice of checking the facts and not do follow follow. The praise and worship is what draws me there and I have always maintained that a building is not where one gets Salvation, I hear some of their Sermons and go "hhhhhmmmm" where was that in the Bible?
One has to be strong spiritually these days to attend Nigerian Churches because of the nonsense they preach as well as their GREED to fleece the flock of their hard earned Dollar. I guess I am not a "traditional" member in the sense that I won't defend OBVIOUS LIES.

I thank God for you. . .

Just consider yourself extremely lucky.

KunleOshob:
It's quite instructive that none of the numerous RCCG members on this forum as been able to come out and defend the scrilegeous/dubious wrttings of their G.O, perhaps they are not as badly brainwashed as the zombies in CEC, if it was a post against that notorious con man that goesby the name Oyakhilome all hell would have broken loose on this forum by now as they would be trying to out do themselves in defense of the criminal.

Oh dear. . .

KunleOshob:
It is virtually impossible to change the system as the vested interests are to great and the love for filthy lucre is entrenched, the best any one can do is to go and start his own "church" but that would not solvethe problem as they all eventually derail. It would take the physical return of christ for their to be any change and that return could be much sooner than expected.

Hmmm. . . I agree

Come Lord Jesus!

Maranatha!

Devonian:
In Moral and Political Philosophy as well as in Philosophy of Education, it is said that when indoctrination has successfully taken place one or more of the following happens. (1) the absence of any rational justification for one’s beliefs or values; (2) the inability to justify one’s beliefs or values; and, (3) the inability to consider alternatives. So, when people hold on to a belief (secular or religious): (a) just because the Pastor/Priest/Bishop/Pope or GO says so, FULL STOP; (b) without being able to clearly articulate reasons for holding such beliefs (even when there are acceptable reasons for holding such beliefs); and, (c) failing to consider alternative viewpoints, one major conclusion that can be drawn is that the individual is ostensibly suffering from the paralysis of his/her intellectual imagination.

Got it. Thanks!

Devonian:
Absolutely true! This is becuase, those RCCG members who woulld not respond here are ostensibly suffering from the paralysis of their intellectual imagination, which is the end product of the phenomenon called indoctrination.

@Devonian,

Do you mind explaining what that means? 

@OP,

Yes, he will find faith when he comes.

Though they'll be few compared to vast number of professing Christians the world over.

There'll also be a lot of surprises too, as many who actually thought they were christians (based on the word and teaching of their hallowed men of dog god), will be disappointed.

Devonian:
@ CHARLOE: IN ADDITION TO AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID, I RESPECT YOUR COURAGE, HONESTY, INTELLIGENCE AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IN BRINGING THIS TO LIGHT.

Seconded! 

@CHARLOE,
Its such a shame what is going on today in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. But one of the things that helps encourage me through all this is that none of this has taken God by surprise. The deception going on today is simply one of the major signs of the end time. In fact, it was the first thing Jesus mentioned when asked for hints/tips to know when his return is imminent - "Take heed that no one deceives you"!

CHARLOE:
@ Petres 007, enigma, kunle, real truth, devonian and co, tanx so much for your contributions. It's so good to know there're still pple/xtians out there who are not high on d (religion) drug. I'm looking 4 bros like u guys, who seek d truth, who fear no man but God,  to study scriptures together in order to know d truth about things like - d sabbath, born again, d kingdom of God, d Law etc. Starting a thread soon, u guys shld pls join in. Once again, tanx and God bless u.

I was even thinking of starting a thread to discuss the old and new covenants/testaments, in relation to Christianity. Issues like sabbath-keeping, the jewish festivals, firstfruits, tithing etc.  .  .  all fall into place once we can grasp this simple truth. I hope we can look at plenty of scriptures from both the old and new testaments and if there was a way we could study/read through whole books together (especially Galatians & Hebrews).

Its something every Christian should know, but obviously don't. I'm planning on making it one of the refresher topics to discuss with my friends when they return home from school next month and felt I should start a thread on it.

Or maybe you should start it like you said eh? NEPA has been doing their job too well these days.

@toba,

I'm sort of busy now o!


Kindly paste that entire passage here and lets straighten it out.

toba:
So to u Jesus ordered u to be a critic?
Whats his teaching about sowing&reaping& his parable about allowing d weed to grow with d seed until harvest day. What can u make of this?

Devonian:
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? (1 Corinthians 6:2).

It is this attitude of "Leave him/her for God to judge" which has destroyed Nigeria. Rather than make people accountable for whatever they've done wrong, ssome of us Nigerians often say, let's leave him/her alone, God would judge, and things would continue to degenerate to the point where Pastors would engage in 419 activities and GOs would say nothing. What has the GO of the RCCG officially declared in relation to his pastors misbehaving at national and international levels? Shall we continue to sin and ask that grace abound? Thank gosh, I've turned my back on the church.

I couldn't agree more!

ayettymama:
^^ are u bein serious??

do u read the bible at all??

Jesus critisized almost EVERYTHING that was bein done in those days

he openly confronted them on the curroption that had taken over the synagogue- the hypocrites the oppresors

go and open another thread so we can discuss the teaching of jesus!!

@ayettymama,

Kai! ooooooooh! You got him first. I no know wetin I bin dey look.

Azibalua:
why not be on the safe side and
let God judge them, not you

And how have I passed judgment on them? Am I or anyone apart from the Lord even capable of doing that in the first place?

The bible instructs us to test everything and hold on to what is good! We're admonished to exercise discernment, which is exactly what I do. There are so many examples of these calls for discernment on the part of believers in the scriptures - we're instructed to earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all time delivered to the saints.

I assure you, what is being peddled about as the gospel by these conmen claiming to be ministers of the gospel is badly supernaturally twisted and I'll have none of it.

I don't get why supposed Christians feel so uncomfortable comparing their ministers' and denomination's theology with the scriptures!

I have one scripture for you. My sunday gift offering to you. 

It contains a rebuke commendation from Christ to one of the 7 seven churches in Revelation.

"'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear evil men but have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and found them to be false;

Rev 2:2 (RSV)

@CHARLOE,

At first I used to be shocked to my bones when I come across stuff like this - I mean, its one thing to mistinterpret the scriptures or outrightly twist it to suit your schemes. But introducing a concept completely alien to Christianity is something else entirely!

God help us!

CHARLOE:
While reading d daily devotional of d RCCG of wed 17 march, 2010, titled ONE HUNDRED FOLD RETURN,

CHARLOE:
it says pastors are priests, and encourages d reader to always sow in d lives of their priests (pastors) in order 4 dem to get a 60 fold return. It went further to say general overseers (G.O's) are high priests and also ecourages d reader to always sow into d live of their G.O. to get a 100

OMG

The more I read and hear about this kinda thing, the more I get tempted to start my own church - "Petres_007 Christian Ministries Industries Worldwide",

I'll make oga KunleOshob the chief tax tithe collector
That way, I'm sure the church workers won't rob me blind,

Make una pray for me ooooooooo . . . to backslide dey hungry me o!

@post

The answer is no!

But when it lines up God's rightly divided word of Truth, by all means yes!

Not because the pastor said it, but because it lines up with God's word. And you know this requires careful study, as almost everybody can quote scriptures to support their lies.

toba:
What u guys are doing makes less sense. Why dnt u start more intellectually challenging thread rather than dis attacking&defending one.
Whereas u are all xtians,if u were being challenged by pple from d other sect,how would u form a team to defend your faith?

No we're not.

InesQor:
@mabell: Please answer these two questions as well, since at least I think YOU are not a pastor so your answer may be different.

[size=14pt]I have TWO questions for you.

1. Can a true man of God EVER be wrong?
2. If so, if your pastor, taking him as a true man of God, is wrong according to the scriptures, will you take it that he is wrong, or you will excuse it as "a higher form of knowledge" and force your spirit to go in line with it?[/size]

@Inesqor,

I think you're asking questions to which you already know the answers. They've demonstrated this in most of their posts.

InesQor:
@Petres_007: Imagine that!!! How can he say James died by Herod's hands because he didn't understand the function of the Kingdom? 

Mar 10:38  But Jesus said to them, You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the baptism [of affliction] with which I am baptized?
Mar 10:39  And they replied to Him, We are able. And Jesus told them, The cup that I drink you will drink, and you will be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized,

[size=16pt]Who is right, then? CHRIST who already said James and John would be persecuted like himself, or Chris who says James was persecuted for his ignorance?[/size]

No offence intended to CEC or Living Faith Church, but even when I was still a new Christian roughly 12 years ago and I didn't know much, I used to treat Oyakhilome's messages with very careful consideration, too many things he said never checked with my spirit, it was like trying to make some voodoo out of Christianity. Same goes for Oyedepo (all the mantle and oil and stuff). The couple of times I ever worshipped there (I mean Winners, I never bothered attending a CEC service), my spirit was left in pieces afterwards, I finally had to ensure I never went back.

Interestingly enough, both claim to be a new form of the Pauline experience. They say that just like how Paul knew things beyond the others, so they do too.

@Inesqor,

This is the particular statement made by Oyaks years ago that made me lose all hope of him not knowing what he's doing. Before then, I used to look at fine face and just think he looked too sincere to not know what he's doing.

Your post reminds me of my experience at CEC. You're so, so lucky you never attended.  

I remember praying and giving God up till the end of 2007 to help me find somewhere else where his unadulterated word was what was held onto and lived by. I shudder now to think that I actually prayed and gave God a deadline. . . but I'm thankful he answered anyway, despite my foolishness to have tried to force him to do something, even though it was a good request.

Ah! I remember how it felt like being alone out there, all by myself. I was tempted to give up on Christianity (by going along with the flow like everybody else), because I felt there was no way I could survive by myself without fellowshipping with others. But I also knew that what obtained everywhere was falsehood, as long as the bible held true.

I also attended plenty of services at winners (my best friend was a member and used to drag me there sometimes). To me, it was essentially the same - a marked departure from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as presented in the scriptures. Only the winners version looked more like child's play, compared to Oyaks'. The guy was (and still is) far more smooth. Looks more like the real thing, but even farther from the truth.

You're lucky you didn't have to endure sitting through CEC services for years not knowing where to turn to, like I did.  

CHARLOE:
@ Petres, enigma, kunle, inesqor and co welldone, wish we had more of your kind in this naija then we wldn't be where we are.

Thanx.

CHARLOE:
Only a heart seeking d truth will understand u guys.

True. But most hearts today aren't seeking the truth. They're seeking what'll benefit them in d now. And thats why like the scriptures says, they'll continue to heap for themselves false teachers who'll tell them what their itching ears want to hear.

When I first began to realise the farce being preached and practiced as Christianity today, it was then in all honesty, that I truly got to understand the meaning of the saying, "truth is bitter". Infact I think that's a very serious understatement. Anyway sha. . .  

It was heart breaking to see how different our theology and Christian Unchristian practice was from what the bible presents when studied closely. And what got me thinking while in church at CEC back then was the man worship (of Pastor Chris) going on there in the name of "honouring the man of god".

CHARLOE:
Alot of these guys here have been warned in their churches not to listen to anything contrary to their teachings & pratice wether biblical or not.

Very true. And I'll bet you those fellows are not Christians at all, by biblical standards. Sad, shocking, but true.

CHARLOE:
My advice to anyone reading this is to seek d truth urself, study, and check-up what anybody says (even if it's your pastor or GO) in your bible.

Don't bother. You can be almost sure they won't. Once "Pastor" or "Daddy GO" has spoken, God himself has spoken. SO need to bother yourself with the scriptures. Just live by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the Father daddy GO.

CHARLOE:
Just as an aside, have u ever wondered why with all d big & inflential pastors we have in this country (1 is even one of the 50 most influential pple in d world) they always shy away from confronting d evil leaders we're cursed with (pst Bakare is an exception here),

Our daddy GO (and his pastors under him) was busy sharing testimonies of how he now (then) had free access to Aso Rock and used to come back with back-breaking, hunch-back causing Ghana must go. He was busy going there to give counsel to OBJ and his minions, and pray for them. He was busy telling us that OBJ was some sort of messiah for this country. . . While he (OBJ) robbed this country blind for 8 years . . . and even sought to come back for a 3rd term.

imhotep:
Lesson => An elephant will sooner fit into the trunks of a rat than God into our notions of him.

Nice one there imhotep,

Its a pity people want to know ALL there is to know about God first.

Oga JoeAgbaje,

Dis your heretic (not to mention silly) statement that only two of the apostles had "indept knowledge about the teachings of Christ about the new life" very much proves that you're a true son of Oyaks! Congrats o! Cos I know firsthand you're all crazy about growing up into his image/likeness! 

The amazing thing is how you guys feel so comfortable taking out the very foundation of Christianity and still claim to be Christians! 

I think it was two or three years ago when your pastor said something just as damning on TV. He read from the book of Acts 12:1-2

1 About that time Herod the king laid violent hands upon some who belonged to the church.

2 He killed James the brother of John with the sword;


And then suddenly stopped there and asked his hearers rhetorically; "how could an apostle just die like that"? And then he answered the question himself and said, it was because "he (James) didn't really understand how the Kingdom of God functioned". 

He then went on to read the other verses:

3 and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. This was during the days of Unleavened Bread.

4 And when he had seized him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out to the people.

5 So Peter was kept in prison; but earnest prayer for him was made to God by the church.

6 The very night when Herod was about to bring him out, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains, and sentries before the door were guarding the prison;

7 and behold, an angel of the Lord appeared, and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter on the side and woke him, saying, "Get up quickly." And the chains fell off his hands.

8 And the angel said to him, "Dress yourself and put on your sandals." And he did so. And he said to him, "Wrap your mantle around you and follow me."

9 And he went out and followed him; he did not know that what was done by the angel was real, but thought he was seeing a vision.

10 When they had passed the first and the second guard, they came to the iron gate leading into the city. It opened to them of its own accord, and they went out and passed on through one street; and immediately the angel left him.

After reading about how God miraculously saved Peter from Herod's hands, he then said that after James' execution, the church (now I don't remember exactly how he said this one but he meant that the church) somehow "woke up" and prayed for Peter, which then resulted in Peter's rescue.

I don't want to go into all the details but just want to bring out some points to show the similarity between JoeAgbaje's warped ideas and Oyaks'.

1. Well, you kuku didn't mention Peter in your short list of "special apostles" sha. And its obvious the man had no idea of this heretic teaching of yours about the new superhuman life - he was sound asleep the night before his public execution! He didn't even know that what was happening to him was real till the angel had left him. 

2. Pastor Chris said that James died like that even though he was an apostle because he didn't know how the kingdom functioned (but Pastor Chris does  ). It may interest you to know that all the apostles except John ended up dying like that. Including Paul, who was beheaded, according to early church tradition.

So, if these guys all died like that (like James). I guess, they all didn't really know how the kingdom functioned. 


And here we are, reading their gospel accounts and epistles and believing their testimony about God and Christ. 

DO you mind telling me what you're smoking now?? 

Joagbaje:

But you should know that only 2 apostles had the indept understanding of the teachings of Christ about the new life. Paul and John. Paul had had encounter with Peter and James on doctrinal issues . 
[color=#990000]Gal 2:11

@JoeAgbaje,

[size=14pt]What are you smoking??[/size] 

Thanx for your response. The sad thing is that there's no way to prove these your claims of miracles and the likes here on NL. But at least you've proved one thing - that you believe you did these things because you're superhuman. And with this I'm satisfied.

I won't attempt to discuss or debate this issue further with you. You've shown unbelievable skill in doing what a friend of mine refers to as a "despoil of scriptures". Just continue in your delusion.

@JoAgbaje,

There really is no big deal about the superhuman thingy jor! Don't mind me

Just tell us one or two things you've done, as a superhuman. Walking on water (which @MyJoe has rightly pointed out is not challenging enough) will do just fine.

Thank you!

[sighs & shakes head]  

Reading the comments of JoeAgbaje and others in this thread has left me with a headache. I can't help but be amazed at the dexterity with which he twists the scriptures (imposing his own ideas into it) and then dodges simple, direct questions thrown at him to answer which if ansewered honestly, will see his unchristian theolgy/ideals fall apart.  

I just hope i don't have any nightmares this night sha.  

Many thanks to a handful of others like Viaro, tpia, daviddylan, Jesoul, InesQue (who's actually shown tremendous patience in discussing with JoeAgbage in this thread) and even Tudor (an atheist!) who seems to see clearly what someone who professes Christ has been dancing around for days. Reading your inputs has been encouraging - at least not everyone subscribes to the current culture of bending scriptures to suit our greed.

It is well.