₦airaland Forum

ogbeche77: No one marketed the movie to me, I never saw the advert on any media, I just stumbled on it on a friend's laptop, without any recommendation from her, I watched it & those I later recommended it to, do come back to pat me in the back, Dude.. 3 idiots is one of the greatest movie Bollywood has produced... Love it or Hate it

I was talking about the movie 300, not 3 idiots, which I've never watched. 300 was over-hyped and when it came out, overpraised, in the west and the hype and undeserved excessive praise made the movie seem better than it was.

Not really. Looking at the eyes, the figure in the statue looks Tibetan/Asian.

Would you say this old man on the right (a Tibetan), looks like a white guy?:

[img]http://www.berkeley.edu/news2/2010/07/tibetan2.jpg[/img]

Anyway, the swastika was a religious symbol found across a wide area and across several cultures with different meanings. It was not some kind of racial symbol.

Dede1: Believe me it is a waste of the time dribbling around with certain craps about Nigeria\Biafra war. Ejoor and Ogbemudia did not wear 3MCDO insignia but they were frontline officers of Nigerian army.

My understanding of "frontline" might be different so maybe you're using it in a different sense. Anyway, they were indeed officers of the Nigerian army but I don't accept any claim that they took aggressive actions until they were invaded.

Yes, Ejoor was consulted in every move made by Gowon as such he was privy to the plans to invade eastern region both from northern and southern flanks

Is that so?

Good to know that you are somehow privy to what Ejoor was privy to, but it doesn't change the fact that Ejoor was not planning any offensive and could not be faulted merely for being informed of what Gowon was planning if he was in fact informed of such. If he was informed of what Gowon was planning, I don't see what obligation he was under to take sides about it and inform the other side nor do I see what he could have done about these plans.

It is very clear the pretentious shenanigans that mid-westerners joined the Nigeria side because of inversion amounts to bold and bloody falsehood. Nigeria, which instigated military operations against eastern region from northern and southern flanks, from July 6 through 26, 1967 when Bonny was captured included mid-western, western and northern regions. It is a fact there was not time either mid-western, western or northern region raised an objection to the fact that Gowon sat in Lagos and ordered military operation against eastern region on July 6, 1967.

The presence of officers of Midwestern origin in Lagos or in the Western region or who stayed in the federal military at all even in their own region (the Midwest) is being read by you as meaning that the actual region (the Midwest region) and its government was initiating aggressive action toward the eastern region - which is the only claim I take issue with. The presence of Midwesterners under the employ of the federal government or Gowon being used to argue that the actual region and its government was taking aggressive action against the East is like arguing that the presence of some eastern Ijaw, Ekoi, etc. directly under Gowon means that their hometowns and home areas were taking aggressive action against the seceding east regardless of whether there was any actual action, aggression, or resistance taking place there. The point is that the actual region and its government was not planning or participating in an offensive before the invasion, regardless of what was going on in Lagos, and that the Escravos claim from you is false. These technicality based or fiction based arguments to assert that the Midwest was taking aggressive action even in spite of the clear lack of action in that region are not particularly convincing.

Based on the above facts, I guess eastern region has every right to attack Nigeria from any possible flank deemed necessary. It is equally a glaring fact mid-western region of Nigeria did not comprise only individuals from the ethnicity such as Isoko, Edo, Urhobo, Esan, Ijo or Itsekiri. The argument that the individuals from the aforementioned ethnicities joined Nigeria to fight eastern region because of later‘s retaliatory attack on former through mid-western region is an incompetent hogwash and dishonorable behavior.

The Midwest invasion was bound to happen anyway so I wonder how this became a discussion about the "right" of a country to invade another. People can make different arguments for who had the "right" to invade who based on whatever reasoning they can come up with and I'm sure Gowon's eastern minority supporters probably felt like the Nigerian army had some right to invade when they invaded as well. In the case of the East invading the Midwest, a besieged seceding country is going to attack wherever they need to, after all, in order to survive, so that is not an issue for me. What I have repeatedly taken issue with is this Escravos stuff you've been repeating to use as a pretext to claim the Midwestern region was taking aggressive action because it is false and you refuse to provide even a modicum of evidence to support it but have been repeating it constantly as if it were fact.

Any person with a dot size of brain will wonder why the retaliatory attack on Nigeria by eastern region caused wild vexation that forced Isoko, Edo, Urhobo, Esan, Ijo or Itsekiri to joined Nigeria armed forces in large numbers yet Igbo peeps from the same region did not join. Or does it mean Ndigbo who held and still hold the natural and fundamental claim to portions of acreage known as mid-western region were not bona fide entity.

Again, the Britain-Nigeria\Biafra war had been fought, won and lost. In the process, mortal enemies were created and there is nothing anybody could do about it. The dates of the events are still with us. Only the unrepentant revisionists will moronically attempt to circumvent the chronicle order of real time. Every person with degree of intellect equal to that of a goat knows the month of July precedes August

I was not arguing about what "mortal enemies" were created and I couldn't care less.

I have said already that the Midwest was technically not neutral (how could they be when the federal government was paying the officer's salaries, after all?). That is no longer the issue as I don't believe the Midwest had the means to achieve real neutrality. The problem is claiming the Midwest region took offensive action in July through this fictitious story about some buildup in Escravos that never happened and claiming that the Midwesterners that joined the 3MCDO after the Biafran invasion were training in Escravos before the Biafran invasion which is simply false. That is the chronological issue here, not whether a "retaliatory" attack was really retaliatory or aggressive, as we're simply not going to agree on that.

afam4eva: Are you sure it's not the fake one you watched?

I saw it in a theater. Not only did it not live up to the hype, it just wasn't even great period. It was an above average movie that was over hyped through media, marketing, advertising, etc.

Dede1: I guess you are too good to constantly pose question of proof on the training of Nigerian army recruits at Escravos, Mid-western region and the reason certain ethnicity supported Nigeria during the civil war. In fact, only a classified interloper would entertain a question about loyalty of Edo-Urhobo-Itsekiri-Esan during the period in discussion. In addition, it is unrepentantly disingenuous for person to stray into making comments such as Mid-western region was neutral or certain ethnicities in the aforementioned region joined Nigerian side due to inversion. If you really want to know which Nigerian soldier was trained at the training depot located at Escravos, Mid-western region of Nigeria in 1967, I suggest you approach Nigerian armed forces for answers.

One wonders why Igbo ethnical groups in Mid-western region failed to join Nigerian side of the coin if inversion of Mid-western region was the stroke that broke the dam. Or does it indicate that Igbo in Mid-western region were not bona fide indigenes of the region. There were indications that Mid-western region had joined the fight against eastern region before August 8, 1967. David Ejoor who was number one citizen of the region had joined Nigeria’s effort of the war through urging Gowon to usurp the position of Head of State, attending meeting in Aburi on the Nigerian contingent and gathering supplies for Nigerian army in Escravos. It has been alleged that Ejoor was smack in the middle of plan to invade eastern region through southern flank at Bonny.

From Ejoor, Ogbemudia (sorry case indeed), Innih, Isama, Eremabor, Isemede to Tomoye were front line field commanders of Nigerian army and especially 3MCDO.

You've got to be kidding me. The point of contention here is not whether officers from the Midwest who were already in the Nigerian army stayed in the army (as even the Igbo officers from the Midwest did, up until some defected to the other side when the opportunity arose or defected later when their lives were in danger after the federal forces took the Midwest). Rather the the issue is this phantom claim about a "massive buildup" of certain groups and recruits at Escravos to join the July attack on Bonny.

Ejoor was never part of 3MCDO and was staying in the Midwest as an administrator/governor, not staying at the frontline of the Nigerian military during the war and there is no evidence that he "urged Gowon to usurp the position of Head of State" or that he ever gathered supplies for the Nigerian army at Escravos. The entire basis of this claim that he gathered supplies for the Nigerian army at Escravos is that Gowon sent a group under an officer to Benin to pick up boats (whether they were already there or not is also an issue as I don't see how one man could have procured boats single-handedly) and was rebuffed by Ejoor's Igbo subordinate officers. After that officer (Igbinosa) was rebuffed and sent back, there is no evidence that Ejoor attempted to get the boats to Igbinosa or Gowon by other means or through other (non-Igbo) personnel or even that he was aware that any boats were meant to have been delivered.

The claim about Ejoor planning to "invade the eastern region through the southern flank at Bonny" is completely absurd. Was he going to lead this force with largely Midwestern Igbo officers (like Igboba, Ochei, Nzefili, etc.) and soldiers? Use common sense here. In fact, when Innih requested that the Midwest be given adequate means of defending the region against a possible incursion, the suggestion was ignored because of the risk. I can't comprehend how one can claim there was some kind of arms build up to go on the offensive even while others who were actually in the Nigerian army were complaining about the lack of an arms build up to provide adequate defense.

Samuel Ogbemudia was never part of 3MCDO or any attack on Bonny nor was he involved in any supposed training in Escravos. I really don't see the relevance of Ogbemudia to my point as he stayed in the Midwest as an officer prior to the invasion and stayed there after the Biafran invasion was over. George Innih joined the 3MCDO in 1968 under Lt. Col. Pius Eromobor/Eremobor. He did not join in any invasion of Bonny in 1967 and was in Lagos directly under Gowon prior to joining the 3MCDO. Samson Tomoye was not involved in the July invasion of Bonny either, and in fact was still part of the federal guard in the west by the time of the Midwest invasion in 1967. That he later joined the 3MCDO is nothing unusual and is not surprising. Isemede was not involved in the 1967 Bonny invasion either but was still in the west as well. Pius Eremobor/Eromobor was not involved in the 1967 Bonny invasion and was still an intelligence officer in the Midwest under Ejoor at that time. I don't see what the relevance of his joining the 3MCDO later is to my point. As for Alabi-Isama, who also did not take part in the July Bonny invasion but was still an officer in the Midwest at the time, his father is from a place called Utagba-Uno in the Ukwuani area and his mother is Yoruba - why you even mentioned him, I don't know. I would consider him Igbo/Yoruba just like anybody would consider Ike Nwachukwu as Igbo/Fulani, unless Ukwuani is suddenly not Igbo to you.

Innih, Eremobor, Tomoye, and Isemede joined the 3MCDO later - after the Midwest invasion. As for their staying in the army through the Gowon regime which came to power after a coup, they also stayed in the army during the Ironsi administration, and had he not been overthrown, he would have been their boss for the duration of his administration, not Gowon. As for what they were supposed to do, as career soldiers, as the higher ups took positions that led increasingly to war - were they supposed to end their careers? If they did not suddenly resign from the military under Ironsi for no reason, I don't think one could interpret them not suddenly quitting when Gowon was in charge as proof of some kind of sectional bias against the eastern region even when it was not absolutely certain that there would even be a war against the former eastern region until secession was declared. Obviously they intended to stay in the army regardless.

Dede1: I am not fazed by the posting of articles heavily influenced by malice and inducement from sense of denial. There are unbiased essays and eye witness accounts that helped built my social order on events that led to British\Biafra civil war. No amount of attempts by desperate revisionists will change a thing. I knew many peeps of Urhobo-Edo-Esan-Itsekiri-Isoko-Efik extractions that were trained at Escravos, Mid-western region training depot that fought at Bonny on July 1967.

The war was fought and lost as mortal enemies were made along the path of battles. It is arrant nonsense for any right thinking fellow to insinuate that only Ijo peeps, who did not number up to brigade strength, made up of the two brigades of the Nigeria armed forces which assaulted southern flank of eastern region of Nigeria, captured Bonny by July 26, 1967 and were mostly trained at Escravos, Mid-western region.

You repeatedly mentioned Escravos and you even mentioned Boro in connection with the July invasion of Bonny as if to imply that the people trained at Escravos were trained there before the Midwestern invasion when there is simply no evidence of that. The point is, Boro's group was trained at Escravos after the Midwest invasion and there is no evidence that the 6th, 7th and 8th battalions or anyone that took part in the July invasion of Bonny was trained there (unless you are willing to supply actual evidence for your claim). If, soon after Boro's group left, even more people - non-Ijaw people - were trained at Escravos to join the force that was already at Bonny after having captured it, that is still completely irrelevant to my point as that would still have been after the Midwest invasion and we both know there was massive recruitment of non-Igbo Midwesterners after that invasion. As for the 7th and 8th battalions, I have asked you repeatedly to name names and to give evidence of the dates they joined these battalions and then I would accept your claims without hesitation. Also, a simple search shows that a battalion has a strength of anywhere from 300 to 1200 soldiers. If you are claiming that there were not 900 to 3600 non-Igbo soldiers already pre-existing in the Nigerian army besides those under other commanders and those directly under Gowon that could have been used to form the 6th and to create the 7th and 8th then why don't you provide some actual evidence in terms of names and numbers of personnel in each extant military unit?

The movie 300 is one of the most overrated movies of all time.

Dede1: I have no illusion that Max Siollun is a good historical entity but he still succumbs to author’s imagination and hyperbolism. Please stop quoting Max because his words are not gospel. I have to categorical say that Max’s explanation about Midwestern region debacle is completely flawed with view to chronological order of events.

I guess Max forgot that the force that attacked eastern region and captured Bonny on July 26, 1967 departed from the Nigeria’s training depot at Escravos, Mid-western region of Nigeria. It is clearly that Mid-western region of Nigeria had joined the war on the Nigerian side before the August 8, 1967 inversion by Biafran forces.

Dede1: I read in your post the extracts from Max Siollun’s write-up where it indicated “the "Mid-West will not be a battleground". Ejoor had even refused to let federal troops cross through his territory. Hence it was regarded as neutral demilitarized territory”. There is nothing farthest from truth than this crap.

Escravos, Mid-western region was the training depot of the 3MCDO that launched attack on eastern region and captured Bonny on July 12, 1967. And by July 26, 1967, Bonny is securely in the hands of elements of 3MCDO of Nigerian army. If Max Siollun was not under the influence of author’s imagination, he was outright lying about the so-called Mid-western region's false sense of neutrality

The Midwest was technically not neutral and did not have the means of achieving neutrality. However, if this idea that the Midwest was an "aggressor" is based on this Escravos stuff you've been repeating for more than a year now, then you might seriously need to have a rethink or recheck your facts. First, we both know that the force that captured Bonny in July was launched from Lagos, not Escravos as was discussed a long time ago although you seem quite convinced that they had been in Escravos prior to the Bonny invasion - probably because of your (incorrect) assumption that Boro and his group (who were gathered at and trained at Escravos) were among them. Second, we know that the training in Escravos of people like Boro took place after the Biafran invasion of the Midwest, not that he was just relaxing there or carrying out training while an invasion/occupation was going on there. So who was really trained at Escravos? Who led the training at Escravos? Some Ijaws, primarily from the Eastern region of Nigeria met up in Escravos and trained there briefly and from this you've built up all sorts of bizarre theories. And also, who authorized the training at Escravos? Midwesterners? There is not even any evidence of at least this (that is to say, there is no evidence that consultation was carried out and assent given before deciding that Escravos is where the training should occur) - and this is the only thing that could even be plausible.

"It is no use to repeat that Isaac Boro who was jailed by the Maj. Gen. Aguiyi-Ironsi government on recommendation by the supreme court of Nigeria was pardoned by Lt. Col Yakubu Gowon's government and later commissioned by the Nigerian Army as an officer to help liberate southern territories under Biafran control. He recruited Rivers men who volunteered to serve under him and gave them brief training at Escravos. According to Obasanjo on page 47 of [1], Boro's one-thousand Rivers men were "hurriedly and poorly trained with little or nothing in the way of training facilities and resources". His group was then attached to the 3 Marine Commando Division (then 3 Marine) under the command of Col. Benjamin Adekunle." - Hosiah Emmanuel, "Who Killed Adaka Boro"

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/people/ad.asp?blurb=129

http://www.adakaboro.org/resources/37-articles/56-whokilledboro?format=pdf

"First, I was among the hundreds of young and not so young Ijaw army of soldiers recruited and put under Boro's command that was sent to Bonny after some commando type training in Ogidigbe on the Escravos River. Boro left us soon after as he was sent to the Calabar theater. But before he left, he advised us not to commit atrocities nor loot from liberated towns and villages. And that was a very sobering advise and his greatest parting present to us. And it stuck with most of us." - Roy Tomo-Spiff, "Roy Tomo-Spiff' Recalls Boro's Death"

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/people/ad.asp?blurb=129


"The boys who were being trained by Boro and Owonaru on Escravos Bay when we passed through at the end of September had arrived in Bonny about October/November; though the then Commander was rather unhappy with them. . ." - Ken Saro-Wiwa, On a darkling plain: an account of the Nigerian civil war (1989), p. 159

"By the end of September a substantial part of the Mid-West had been cleared of rebels. What next? Col. Adekunle once again visited Lagos and secured permission to change the designation of his formation from 3 Infantry Division to 3 Marine Commando Division because of the particularly riverine and creek operations already carried out in the Mid-West, the Rivers State and a similar one impending in the South-Eastern State. From Warri, 3 Marine Commando Division moved once again to Bonny where the planning and preparation for Operation Tiger Claw, the Calabar landing operation started in earnest early in October 1967. At Bonny, Col. Adekunle got his men and materials together once again less those officers and men who had been absorbed into 2 Infantry Division in the Mid-West. He also gained some officers and men like Majors Afiegbe and Alabi from the Mid-West operation. Maj. Phillip Afiegbe was appointed General Staff Officer I for Operation Tiger Claw. Also at this time, Boro and his one thousand ill-disciplined, hurriedly and poorly trained Rivers men had joined the 3 Marine at Bonny. They were trained at Escravos with little or nothing in the way of training facilities and resources. Half of them were left in Bonny where such patriotic Rivers men as George Amangala, B.A. (History), Bodman Nyanayo, M.A. (Maths.) and Notthingham D1ck died. The remaining half with Boro himself went with the main body of the Division on the Calabar landing operation. With the planning, preparation and briefing for Operation Tiger Claw completed, a force of some one thousand men with poor logistics backing was left in Bonny with Lt. Bello as commanding officer while Maj. Abubakar joined the main force for Calabar." - Olusegun Obasanjo, My Command


Which comes first? August (the time of the Biafran invasion of the Midwest). . .or September (the time of the training of Boro's group in Escravos)? Which comes first, August. . .or October (the time the Ijaws trained in Escravos joined the 3 Marine Commando Division in Bonny)? I think the answers to these questions are obvious.

We have somebody who was actually trained in Escravos (Roy Tomo-Spiff) stating that the group trained in Escravos which later joined the 3rd Marine Commando in Bonny were of Ijaw extraction. The reason for this and the implications of this as far as their going to Bonny (a city with heavy Ijaw connections) should be quite clear.

Why have you repeatedly attempted to spin this Rivers state (primarily) Ijaw force that was briefly trained at Escravos into some fictitious Urhobo-Edo-Esan-Itsekiri-Isoko (you have mentioned all of these (non-Igbo) peoples before when making the claim about the training at Escravos) Midwestern force recruited to launch an attack on Bonny in Escravos along with Boro when it is easily verifiable that they were Ijaws and also mostly Rivers Ijaws (i.e. Easterners) that joined up with the parts of the (pre-existing) Nigerian army that were already in Bonny after having captured it? I asked you to give an explanation in a previous thread for your statements and instead you told me to go and ask the Nigerian army to confirm your claims.

wiegraf: Honorable mention of mnenosyne, 3*3 eyes

I watched Mnemosyne a little while after seeing you mention it here. There was some violence in each episode, definitely, and she did keep getting killed, but the perverseness/lewdness of parts of the story and the sex-related content stood out to me much more than the violence. Overall it was very entertaining (although the ending was a bit weird/gross). Thanks for (unintentionally) bringing it to my attention.

I think I'll take a look at 3*3 eyes as well.

vescucci: Where is the best place to download these things?

I would recommend just watching them online (if you have the bandwidth, that is).

This is a particularly good site: http://www.kuroanime.com/

There is also some anime on Hulu.com.

If you can't stream them, then your best bet is to search a torrent hosting site like piratebay and just download them (but downloading multiple whole series would take up significant amounts of hard drive space).

lol, who could actually believe a mere 790 foot wide asteroid could destroy the moon? If they're going to make up stuff to mislead people, wouldn't they at least try and make it believable? This is just more of that "the world ends in 2012" hysteria.

Callotti: I don't think the GOP can stoop so low.
This is what you might find in African politics. . .not in the USA.
Thank you!

Bobo Romney is not that desperate. . .he is no stranger to losing elections.
Please, find out who is really behind such nonsense.
In the USA, there is honor amongst thieves. . .unlike in AFRICA.

While it's true that Romney's not behind it, you're definitely underestimating the hatred for Obama that some people on the opposing side have.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/28/conservatives-call-obamas-deceased-mother-a-fat-slut/

http://www.kulturekritic.com/2012/09/news/chair-of-alabama-gop-endorses-film-claiming-obamas-mother-posed-in-adult-magazines/

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times_news/opinion/oped/the-republican-hysteria/article_6e916ee8-4b6b-5f22-a3f3-367f489a0d32.html

It's definitely not beyond some of them to stoop so low.

kingingkinging: No intelligent person can respect uncle Jonathan I would rather listen to Fashola or [size=13pt]Fayemi (who Obama said should have been the president of Nigeria)[/size] laughing stock.

lol, where do people like you get these ridiculous stories from? Is there some professional organization somewhere where you guys deliberately manufacture these tall tales?

SmoothCrim: Dumb Boko these are Ghanaian tribal dances. Do some basic research You will always be under my boot!!!

lol, making a pose in your dance like you're looking at an imaginary mirror is a Ghanaian tribal dance? That's a classic (and old) b-boy move, which as I said before, you can easily come across in a popping and locking competition and which I've seen multiple times before. If you guys are just starting to do stuff like that now and say you came up with it yourselves, fine, but I'm skeptical. Also, brushing off your shoulders is a Ghanaian tribal dance? And the part in the video at around 1:10 - 1:18 where the fat guy is repeatedly putting his hand near the short guy's face and the short guy is reacting looks like it's straight out of a popping and locking competition. And doing James Brown's leg moves (like the short guy and the fat guy in that video were doing)? Those are Ghanaian tribal dances? If you say so. . .but you should be able to see why I was and still am a bit skeptical.

SmoothCrim: Jealous fool...

Nothing to be jealous of there bro. Good for you guys that you can dance, but if you're going to use a dance to brag, at least be original. Just saying.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no diplomatic row between Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. Instead, some Nigerian Muslims are getting a reality check.

Also, the fact that the Nigerian government has any involvement in this Hajj stuff, especially the financial support, is just annoying.

SmoothCrim: Check out the new Ghanaian dance Antenna!! It is the new Azonto!!

THIS IS HOT!!!!

I don't care who you are!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bcScCXUq1o

Unoriginal.

Watch any older good break dance/popping and locking competitions and I guarantee you'll see half of the better moves in that video already being done. Why would you steal moves and relabel them "antenna"?

Also, the fat guy in that video looks ridiculous and completely comical doing those moves. Takes away from the video.

Since this thread has been kind of serious so far, here's a funny video to lighten the mood. The parts with the real life teacher (that the Boondocks episode was based on) are especially funny ("can you lend a nigga a pencil?" ):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLZA32oHbC4&feature=related

@ Pagan, why is this guy wearing Korean traditional clothing? And is he in (South or North) Korea?

Priceless Tibetan Buddha statue looted by Nazis was carved from meteorite

Relic taken by SS in 1930s analysed by researchers following reappearance at auction in 2007

Mark Taylor

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 27 September 2012 19.26 EDT

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/cartoons/2012/9/28/1348788290776/The-Buddhist-statue-that--010.jpg
The Buddhist statue that a Nazi expedition brought back from Tibet. Photograph: Elmar Buchner/AP

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/26/article-0-1538923D000005DC-652_634x853.jpg

A priceless Buddha statue looted by Nazis in Tibet in the 1930s was carved from a meteorite which crashed to the Earth 15,000 years ago, according to new research.

The relic bears a Buddhist swastika on its belly – an ancient symbol of luck that was later co-opted by the Nazis in Germany.

Analysis has shown the statue is made from an incredibly rare form of nickel-rich iron present in falling stars.

The 1,000-year-old carving, which is 24cm high and weighs 10kg, depicts the god Vaisravana, the Buddhist King of the North, and is known as the Iron Man statue.

It was stolen before the second world war during a pillage of Tibet by Hitler's SS, who were searching for the origins of the Aryan race.

It eventually made its way to a private collection and was hidden away until it was auctioned in 2007.

The new owner approached Dr Elmar Buchner of University of Stuttgart to unlock the secrets of the unusual carving's past.

Buchner's team of researchers from Germany and Austria dated it to a specific event in astronomy history when the Chinga meteorite fell in the border region of eastern Siberia and Mongolia between 10,000 and 20,000 years ago.

Tests proved the icon was made of a rare ataxite class, the rarest meteorite type found on Earth.

Gold prospectors discovered debris from the Chinga crash in 1913, but the fragment from which the statue was carved was collected centuries before.

Meteorites have long been heralded as acts of God across many cultures, and early knives and jewellery were often carved from the remnants of space rocks. But tracing their exact origins has proved difficult for scientists.

"We were quite astonished by the results," Buchner told the online journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science.

"If we are right that it was made in the Bon culture in the 11th century, it is absolutely priceless and absolutely unique worldwide," Buchner said.

"It is extremely impressive, it was formerly almost completely gilded – there is a great mystery represented by it."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/28/nazi-buddha-statue-carved-from-meteorite

He however admitted that few months after he took
a stern stand against that behavior in the air by
50cent, he went on his knees to beg 50cent few
months after that in South Africa. Eedris said
that he apologized to 50cent because he wanted to
remain at peace with him.

lol @ this

He seems somewhat confused.

ekt_bear: The relevant question is, did Christianity make Europeans more violent, or not? As you say, you don't have any evidence to say "yes."

I wasn't commenting on the religious violence or intolerance of pagan Europe vs. Christian Europe in that time but rather on the religious violence and intolerance of Christian Europe in that time and how they got away from those practices. And if one is against religion in its entirety, then both would be condemned anyway. I don't see what the relevance of this line of argument really is.

Based. On. What?

Based on the fact that I can't think of any religions that could compete with those two but if you can think of a third, let me know.

OK, so who cares. Of what relevance is the violence of the two religions from 500AD-1500AD in a discussion presumably about the merits of these religions and their impact on humanity in 2012?

Are Turkish Muslims as violent (with regard to religiously motivated violence) or as prone to Islamist terrorism as some other Muslim nations around the world? I don't think so. My point is that the culture (such as European enlightenment culture vs. rigid, ascetic Middle Eastern cultures) is what is most relevant to how a religion is being practiced in 2012.

On pagan Europe, I just think there's not enough information to reach any definite conclusion. Anyway, an auto-da-fe (burning people alive) or other Christian religious executions aren't any less barbaric than a human sacrifice and certainly are more barbaric than a human sacrifice of an actual condemned criminal (someone who was going to be killed anyway) to some deity, so even if they were practicing human sacrifices, they might not have been worse off for it (unless they were practicing human sacrifice on an Aztec-like scale).

Evidence of this? Ideally, a study of religious violence by religion/region during those times?

I'm not familiar with any study but we can basically rule out every single religion other than Islam as far as religions that could compete with Christianity for religious violence, so it just becomes a question of whether Islam or Christianity had more religious violence during those times. That would be a tough call to make but I would lean more toward Christianity having more religious violence during this time period only because I can think of (or am familiar with) more documented examples of religious violence for Christians. Both Muslims and Christians were very intolerant and violent back then though.

ekt_bear: @PhysicsQED: In other words, Christians used to be barbaric, and today they are not?

Wonderful...I imagine everyone will agree with this.

Now, were those same European Christians more violent/intolerant than their non-Christian neighbors? E.g., the pagan tribes of Europe, or other major world religions from 500AD to 1500AD? If not, then I don't see what your point is.

Well I don't know if anyone really knows how tolerant or intolerant the pagans were so I won't attempt to answer that.

As for other "world" religions between 500 AD to 1500 AD, I would say most were probably less intolerant and less prone to religious violence than European Christianity. In certain areas of the world Muslims were probably more tolerant, though not all areas of course.

My point is that if Soyinka's argument is against religion in general, he isn't wrong for not letting Christianity off the hook in his attack or not excusing it from his criticism. From his point of view I don't see why there would be any reason not to think it deserves just as much disdain - it was used to justify racial oppression, the subjugation of women, the persecution of religious minorities, slavery, etc. - just like Islam. And when you consider that the apparent "non-barbaric" nature of Christianity and Christians today is merely an artifact of the European enlightenment period - and some of these prominent enlightenment thinkers in Europe were atheists - it seems reasonable to think that this particular faith itself may not be inherently much/any better than other religions that could be condemned (such as Islam), but just a religion that later received a nice polish and reformation through the continuing effects of the enlightenment period.

For about 1000 years (5th century to 15th century and even some time after that), European Christians were violent, superstitious, fanatical, socially oppressive, sexist, blindly obedient to their religion, intolerant, prone to witch hunting, inclined to burning "pagans" and heretics or apostates at the stake (the auto-da-fé), condemning and socially ostracizing people for blasphemy, persecuting religious minorities of other faiths (particularly Jews), etc. etc., but after a long while the Europeans got over the initial awe they had for the wisdom, elegance, sophistication, etc. that was found in some parts of their adopted religion (Christianity) and they came to terms with the fact that they didn't have the rigid, ascetic, dogmatic and unworldly/non-materialistic culture that could really adhere to the strict demands of a culture/religion born out of Semitic beliefs and tradition. Many Arabs and other Semitic groups however, probably for cultural reasons, were/are more easily able to adhere to the demands of the Muslim religion and therefore fashion their society to fit the needs of their religion rather than the other way around. After the "Enlightenment" period of Europe however, Europeans started fashioning the religion (Christianity) to fit their evolving society and those non-Europeans that later received the religion through contact with Europeans started practicing the religion in a similar manner. The end result is that the religion (Christianity) looks more enlightened and progressive than it would have looked in earlier times when its practitioners engaged in all sorts of backward behavior in the name of religion. The Muslim middle east and north Africa have not had their enlightenment period - and we don't know if they ever will - but if they were to undergo such a transformation, it's likely that the religion and its followers would be viewed in the same way Christians are today - as being usually tolerant of most things, progressive, and rarely prone to religious violence and fanaticism.

Circle360: Hm what a briliant fool. Very narrow minded article, people who judge only by what they see not what they know, is it religion that inventd nuclear weapons, economic crisis, who manucacture dangeros weapons in d world dat kills nt only body n nature bt also minds. If religion is agains humanity, then what is capitalism, democracy, politics, slavery, etc against. Wole u aint a humaterian n if u dnt blv in sumtin it doens mean it bad and d factd that u are a prof. in letriture never means u knw every aspect of like. Human idiology along has 4 ages increases inhuman act over d years. Any ways thats u own idia sha bt u n ur co shld knw dat u CANT erase religion out of human pages. If u any blv and act with ur nations consti2tion dats ur religion. because religion is all abt bleaving an acting. In religion when sum1 kills b 2 would b killd likewise in ur country's constitution any any humaterian const.

ijaw citizen: IT IS NOT AN IJAW TOWN, IT IS A BINI TOWN. IGNORANT & ARROGANT HATERS!

A Bini town named Uzama? Or do you mean a road named after the Uzama? Provide proof of your claim. A picture of something identifying the town name as Uzama. If this town exists it's probably recent.