₦airaland Forum

MrPresident1:
The sun is perfect and beautiful, it became as a result of eons of evolution. Was this evolutionary process guided or it was just random?

Everything evolves, including our Sun.

lordnicklaus:
Do you sacrifice to it?

No sacrifice required.
The sun sees all, all our hearts, as it bathes our individual cells with His radiant light.

DeepSight:
What you mean to say is this - "Living in Nigeria, you can see how obsession with religion makes people more greedy."



Go ahead.

It is my observation that people obsessed with spirituality are people looking for a backdoor, a short cut to navigate reality.

Everyone wants an advantage, an advantage over others, to know something that others do not know that would confer an advantage to them in certain or all aspects of life.

This, I surmise, is the basis of spiritual pursuit.

Spirituality promises people the so-called keys to knowledge, advantage and success. This is probably why spirituality is very popular in third world countries that are in left behind technological advancements .

It is motivated by self interest, the selfish gene .

ifenes:
Great input!

Naaa.

More like word salad buffet.

ifenes:
Great input!

Dp

DeepSight:
They all have the immaterial part. For all creatures, all that you see on Earth is only a cloak. Like a dress. It is cast aside at death.

And you know this for sure?

DeepSight:
As an example, It is important for many people to know that a single kind or selfless deed may be more important in their lives than acquiring all the possible material wealth in the world for instance. The more people think this way, the better the world will be. The less greed and injustice would ravage the world, don't you think?


.

Living in Nigeria, how, in your mind does an obsession with " the spiritual" make people less greedy?

In fact, I can make a compelling argument that spiritual quest is anchored on deep-seated selfishness, and promotes greed.

@Deepsight.
All these big talk, all these big grammar, all these pontifications, are they not just mere speculations, more of creative imagination than reality ?

Can you sit there and tell us that all these wishful fantasies about spiritual this and spiritual that are absolute truths ?
How did you arrive at such truths without the benefit of observation, experimentation and analysis ?

And for the sake of this discussion, even if there were grains of truth in your postulations, the big questions remains; Who E Don EPP ?

How does such knowledge advance human struggles in the end?

The person who formulates an effective headache tablet is doing far more for humanity than one who labours for your fancy knowledge. This is my point.

At this stage of our development, shouldn't we be tired of these AFTER-LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES, the promotions of which have created many contending and conflicting religions on Earth over the past thousands of years ?

DeSepiero:
Hope you're OK?

Yeah. I am .

But , when I start threatening unbelievers like you of eternal barbecue in the hot Sun, then you know that I am Not OK.

malvisguy212:
And also, some atheists believe in spirit, life after death, is there a contradiction ?

Lol.

How is your inner atheist doing ?

DeepSight:
^^^ I said self aware and self cognizant.

Inner being is not a different entity. It is you.

I have elaborated before on how self awareness and self cognisance are functions of the brain, mirror neurons to be precise.

If the inner me is me, then there is no inner me, just ME,..in the same way that your pet dog is just your pet dog.
There is no inner dog in it.

I have a fascination with the our Sun, whom I call our heavenly Father.
The more I learn about our glorious orb, the more awed and humbled that I become.

I can proudly call myself a Sun Worshipper.

I am still am atheist.
Does anyone see a contradiction, and why ?

DeepSight:
Oh no, I have not propounded any such thing. On the contrary, I have said right here on this thread what I have always said, that the Spirit is self evident, that God is self evident and that these things are obvious in every passing moment in everything around us.

The inner being, for itself, is conscious of it self.

You only need to be self aware and self cognisant. Try also, to hear your inner voice, to clear the noise of the world in your head and align with your inner intuition and direction, you will find your way. You do not require a laboratory.

By the time you start listening to your inner voices, there is no guarantee what you might end up hearing.
In fact, in modern cognitive psychology, an undue attachment to inner voices would be considered a diagnosable illness.

My point is that the inner me is just an agglomeration of all my impulses, already imprinted on my DNA. I don't see it, no matter how sweet and romantic it sounds, as a distinct being in of itself.

I am a product of my father and mother, and all their fathers and mothers. I get the rest of my inner being from my environment.

Even the Sun, our heavenly Father, imprinted it's own opinion on my DNA on the day I was conceived.

ifenes:
You are welcomed Sir.

Many people will want the term "spirituality" out of the system. A lot of ignorant people and cults are misusing it,so I usually use Psychology. When people say "Hell fire" I see the term "negative set backs" Someone who drinks and drive doesn't need prayers but Spiritual/Psychological help to refocus the mind and help him understand the hazard he posses to others.

Exactly.

Governor Rochas Okorocha, for good example, might just be having mild psychotic episodes that require psychiatric help and medications, rather than the nonsensical allegations of spiritual slappings in his office.

DeepSight:
Your devotion to the tooth fairy is already notorious on this forum and has oft led one to feel a sense of futility in our discussions. . .

So yes, your tooth fairy is doing very well sire.

Lol.

Your aversion to the Toothfairy might have spiritual implications you know.

DeepSight:
Unfortunately science still deals largely with the material, the physical. I am a lover of science, however I know that Spirit transcends the material science of the physical plane.

I think we have discussed the issue from the point of view of consciousness.

I have told you before that that the brain is a mere tool for the spiritual being, and this is a fact. You there fore cannot seek to understand your inner being by starting from the brain. That is absurd. You will proceed from the inner being and that being will process it's thoughts and workings on this physical plane through the tool that is the brain and the body.

Do not put the cart before the horse.

All sounds honky dory, wordy sire.
But Howfore might you investigate and get to know your supposed inner being, considering , as thou has proudly propounded afore, that spiritual things are nigh immeasurable nor observable with any tools known ?

Do you here, wordy sire, see the contradictions therein in the misguided use of precious time and mental resources on spiritual craft ?

MizMyColi:
Cool.
I encountered Grail message teachings first on NL..

Before now, I had dismissed it as a cult teaching. I really benefitted then, but along the line, I lost interest because I found that it concentrated heavily on explicitly depicting what the after life looks like and how spirits attach themselves to humans et al.

Though, the teachings talk about love, I could not really feel it. I found that I became fearful of the almighty around that time. So I decided to stop and just continue living as I know.

I have never read the books by Abdrushin, but I feel like Grail people are too serious and place too much concentration on the unseen and abstract.

These are my subjective opinions though, and it's not meant in any way to put you down.

As a matter of fact, I have enjoyed your position on this thread as regards spirituality.

I would have loved to proffer my view on the topic too, but the words aren't flowing freely in my head yet.

Indeed, there is more to Us. There is more to the world around us.

The only problem is that we have become so engrossed with African magic, Hollywood and Organised religion narratives that we have almost lost sight of the core essence of spirituality which is basically about being. Just being.

Well said, my dear.

The Grail Message, in my opinion, is a bad mixture of essential truths and their false twists, which to me, is even more dangerous.

MizMyColi:
He writes like one, that's why I ask.

I don't really subscribe to putting other people's choices down, especially when it concerns belief or lack of it thereof.

If an argument or debate leads to resenting one another or thinking of oneself as having seen the light and others - in darkness, then such is not productive and should not be encouraged.

Well what do I know?

To each his own path.

Don't worry, my dear.
He knows what I'm talking about.

ifenes:
Religion has destroyed spirituality. Spirituality is bigger than religion, gods etc. The mistake people make is to think it is about worshiping or having a relationship with an unknown deity. But the truth is that Spirituality is all about you

Spirituality is an awareness of ones self and knowing that you can expand yourself , understand how your mindset can give you a better experience in life.

Most critics are sacred of the word " Spirituality" but are okay with talking about the human Psych, but both happen to be the same. Both work on the mind, both are connected to creativity, emotional maturity, having a positive attitude to life etc. To me I see no difference. The name is only the cause of concern.

Thank you very much.
Your position dovetails with where I am going with my query, and what my esteemed wordy friend, Deepsight, is woefully failing to appreciate.

Is scientific rationalism not the best, the tested and proven way of inquiring into the true nature and substance of our being ?

I would rather deal with the scientific investigation into my psyche, my cognitive awareness and functionings than to waste previous time conjuring fancy words to hide my confusion in the sea of spiritual mumbo jumbos.

neocortex:
How does your "pursuit of spirituality" makes spirituality real ?
How does this same pursuit benefits you ?

You must understand that not everyone is intoxicated by baseless and
unfounded propositions especially an inquisitive mind.

Exactly.

Just like my devotion to the Toothfairy, aside from putting $3.75 under my pillow, has not greatly benefited humankind in any measurable way.

neocortex:
How does your "pursuit of spirituality" makes spirituality real ?
How does this same pursuit benefits you ?

You must understand that not everyone is intoxicated by baseless and
unfounded propositions especially an inquisitive mind.

Thank you for saving me the time and effort to put this to him for what seems to be the millionth time.

MizMyColi:
@Deepsight

Please are you a grail message adherent?

Obviously, he has soaked in too much of that twisted pseudo- religious dough.

Ishilove:
It haf epp me.

Better than or as opposed to ..?

hahn:
And why should we indulge in such wishful thinking despite lack of evidence of it's existence?

This life is the only thing that is guaranteed. Here and now. It would be a more profitable venture if we focused on making the best of what we have now in this present time because this is the only thing that is guaranteed. Don't you think?

This is an award winner.

Bravo, my friend, bravo.

DeepSight:
What has happened to you? ? ?

What has happened to me is that I have looked back at human history, and I began to wonder why the much Ado about spirituality.
Who e don EPP?

DeepSight:
What has happened to you? ? ?

It appears you have conflated spirituality with religion. . . .

You know very well that these two things are different.

If not for the pursuit of the spiritual, what purpose and inner meaning can a human being put to life?
Would man not simply exist as a hobbesian beast?

When you look at a human being, what do you see?

When you look at yourself, what do you see?

A meaningless physical agglomeration of darting physical micro-particles which somehow comes together as one, not just to feed itself in physical terms but to even project ideas to change the world. Is this the thing that you believe is a mere beast, nothing more than an intelligent and advanced beast?

Regardless advancement, do you not see a clear - and - improbably too wide gap between the faculties of man and those of other creatures?

How often have you sat before and contemplated the dead body of a close friend or relative? If you have done this, you would understand that there is absolutely nothing to the physical life save the pursuit of, and refinement of our real spiritual existence outside this vehicle called a body.

There is little difference between spirituality and religion.

If you think that human life only has meaning and depth when we believe in non-physical , non- quantifiable abstracts, then I have to say that you might be behind in social evolution.

My question is ; what quality, what enduring quality does it add to human life , aside from being promoted as an insurance policy to be redeemed after death ?

butterfly88:
well true...but they are other countries who have retained their spirituality and have excelled in other stratas immensely..what I mean by this is ..i don't think "spirituality" is the brother with Africa I think the actual problem with Africa is spiritual ignorance,spiritual corruption,hypocrism, fanatism

I beg to disagree sir.

India, for example, arguably the headquarters of spiritual mumbo jumbos, was a poor , pathetic nation overflowing with stark ignorance and mind-numbing poverty until the modern era, when they embraced practical Western education and science.
All the so-called spiritual magic of India didn't advance the people of India in any notable positive way for many millennia. One century of scientific rationalism did.

In Africa today, spiritual mumbo jumbos occupy sooooo much, a greatly disproportionate part of the mind, that there is hardly Any room for scientific rationalism, scientific curiosity.

ecu120:
As a Christian it has helped me a great deal, both physically,spiritually and mentally.

As opposed to ? ...that didn't help you physically, spiritually and mentally ?

johnydon22:
Were there much difference between Spiritualism, mysticism and science during the ancient times?

The ancient incorporated spiritualism, mysticism and all round superstition in their quest to understand the world.

besides plaetton don't you think Spiritualism means different things to different minds and cultures?

Actually, it's easy to understand ancient man's quests to understand his environment and his place in it.

Therefore, my query is more for the modern humans in this 21st century, especially as always, my African brethren.
We have the long treks of history to teach us that the pursuit of " the spiritual" has given humankind nothing but more ignorance and confusion.

Yes. A very valid question.

Since the dawn of human life, and up to this day, there has been so much Ado about spirituality.

In fact, spiritual mumbo jumbos occupy a grossly disproportionate part of the African mind in this 21st century.
Why?

Looking back at the last 6,000 yrs recorded human history, what has the pursuit of " the spiritual" ever benefited humankind?

Thousands of so-called prophets, wise men, enlightened souls, gurus, sons , daughters, nephews and nieces of god have come and gone, and in most cases, left their environments worse than they met them.

Aside from hurling humankind from one dark pit right into another, in what ways have the pursuit of the " spiritual" positively advanced the human trek?

C:C Deepsight.

Grundig:
My brother, I'm only going by what the EFCC and media have put out.

I'm sure you've read how gej's wife opened bank avcounts in her domestic staffs names. You've also read she's going to forfeit her #10b hotel.

Diezani is also rumoured to.being in the process of forfeiting her Abuja properties.

Gej's cousin is in and out of court and efcc detention

Like I pointed out, all these are stories being put out by efcc and the media.

They are all innuendos, and fall very short of substantiating your statement about Jonathan's aides supposedly looting Nigeria to bankruptcy.

You should be more circumspect about outlandish statements. Leave that for this confused government.

Grundig:
Jonathan's aids looted this country to the point of bankruptcy. But heck, the goodluck Jonathan standing next to IBB and abdulsalam is untouchable.

I challenge you to show with facts, not innuendos, the amount that Jonathan's aides supposedly looted from this country.