₦airaland Forum

engrchykae:
GEJ is a mustard seed and enemies were busy fooling themselves with the illusion of burying him not knowing he is a seed,mustard see for that matter,just like Jesus who became more popular through death.
I must take after you and rise above hate.

Yes.
His haters are dying of embarrassment.

Are we there yet ?

einst3in:
Angry ibos is better caption.

Yeah.

Igbos are the only people adversely affected by the great leadership of Buhari.
Yes indeed.

Let's all join hands to blame Stella Odua.

Zombies masturbate when her name is mentioned in ' Nation' newspaper.
But none of their stooges can duplicate her management capabilities.

Deluded people.

HtwoOw:
Doesn't change the fact that GEJ and PEJ looted the country



Another $35M saga still on fire as we speak



That is not propaganda and those quoting figures should bear in mind that budgit is online, don't just assume numbers look them up

By saga, you mean the media trials?

Those are prepared food for the zombies.

Psychologically speaking, a hungry tummy seems to get a wired feeling whenever huge sums of money are mentioned.

C'mon , grow up.

Buhari inherited bustling and maturing democracy.

Buhari inherited a growing middle class, the first growth of the Nigerian middle class in over 30 yrs.

Buhari inherited a far more United Nigeria than what we have today.

Buhari inherited almajiri schools , the first of such in the North, and a great source of embarrassment for his types.

Buhari inherited 6 new federal universities in the North,. another source of embarrassment for Buhari and his types.

And on and on and on.

Emmaoga:
not every mad person roams around the street unclad.

we still have some EDUCATED MAD PEOPLE..

and pls Nigeria is way bigger than this woman. she is always seeking unnecessary attention while she was the architect of her downfall.

Did you learn anything from the article, irrespective of who wrote it?

Are you capable of comprehension without attacking the author ?

Scream:
FeeeDeeeFeee... power to the people! Knowledge is power, the party is now without knowledge.

All have sinned...but the idiot that wrote that nonsense up there is a regular PDP member.. brainless! An economist of Oby's status can put her name to that sh!t even if you blackmail her.

Guy, take it down except you are a f00l... vanguard has apologised.

It pain you.
Cognitive dissonance can be very painful.

juman:
He was right. PDP 16 years was failure.

But apc was elected to move the country forward, but they instead too unserious and too confused to know what next to do. nigeria descends to anarchy bit by bit.

So far apc government is a disgrace.

I don't know how old you are, but if you have been a Nigerian since at least 1984, you should appreciate that the 16 yr PDP rule was the Golden era of Nigeria's social, political and economic life.

Another food for the zombies.




Hungerbad, the pantry chef for Nigerian zombies.

People need ram meat in their tummies, not more Deziani propaganda.

You Zombie Chefs have become very very predictable.

DeepSight:
A few quotes of yours from that thread just to hammer home the point:



https://www.nairaland.com/1493701/philosophy-truth-through-pictorial-arguments#19113797

I don't know how it is possible for you to speak the above and yet state that some people are embracing reality while others are embracing delusion. Did you not say just in the above quote that "everyone has his own inner truth?"

To further show how contradictory your position is, you concluded that post saying:



In short, after saying that the mind can only see what it is conditioned to see, and that everyone thus has his own inner truth, you then say that all of that is "unreliable in the real world". I wonder where you got that "real world" from considering that everyone is actually trapped in his own perceptive world according to you.

This again shows that you are in no position to speak about reality versus delusion.

Don't forget that in this debate, the issue was about the perception of an image.
I still stand by everything I posted, without contradiction.

The issue of today is about beliefs of imaginary things like angry gods and disasters, and scientific understanding of natural geological events.

DeepSight:
Further, Plaetton,

Here is how the subjectivity of the senses and perception sets aside your definition of "Reality" -

In addition to the above, let me raise the question of the subjective view of reality - which you yourself adamantly argued for on this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1493701/philosophy-truth-through-pictorial-arguments

In this thread, you led a band of reality-subjectivists arguing vehemently that the mind only sees what it is conditioned to see.

This, as I warned you at the time, infers that all things that we see are merely the products of our conditioning.

This would then mean that reality itself is a function of perception, and is therefore an entirely subjective thing, and in a world of over seven billion people we should and indeed do have over seven billion realities.

What is real to you may not be real to the other person and versa.

In this circumstance, I find it impossible for you to be able to judge who is embracing "reality" and who is embracing "delusion". For, given the subjectivity of perception and the subjectivity of the senses, it is very impossible for any person to then describe the subjective apprehension of reality of any other person as a "delusion".

This, is cast in stone, and is absolutely beyond all dispute, surely.

Like cell phones operating in a certain unique frequency range, our individual perceptions differ by inconsequential amounts , because we all operate in the same frequency range.

Like I have reminded you before, chemical molecules like alcohol and opioids do alter and affect perceptions of reality.
Based on that alone, it is obvious that reality is subjective.

No two humans see exactly the same hues of color.

Now imagine other species that have more or less sensory capabilities than we have.
Is their reality different , or, are their realities same as ours , irrespective of their perceptions?

DeepSight:
This discussion began because you asked someone to embrace reality and not delusions.
When asked what reality is, you specifically defined it as that which is observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable.

This is a false and very misleading definition of reality. Everyone does know that reality comprises so much more than the material laboratory version of reality you are attempting to foist here: in the instant case for example, mankind did not need the modern scientific methods you are referring to in order to know that thoughts exist: you make it appear as though we are only now able to affirm that thoughts exist because of these modern methods of proving them - this is as false as false can be.

Again, I ask you the question - since you said a real thing must be quantifiable - just how exactly do you quantify thoughts? By what scales or measurements, pray tell. What is their weight or density for example? What instruments do you use in determining these quantifiable thoughts?



Oh yes you do, for as I mentioned, with the method you refer to you are not observing or quantifying thoughts at all. You are only observing or quantifying electro-chemical activity which may be associated with them. You are not able to observe one thought as a thought about an eagle, and another thought as a thought about a hawk. You are not able to observe or quantify what those thoughts are about at all - and the very nature of thought means that you are not observing a thought at all unless you are observing what it is about - thought itself refers to things, events, ideas and imagination. Your method does not observe or quantify any of this and more than that - it does not predict any of these nor can it.



One can introduce substances into the bloodstream that alter mood but these do not lend one to observe or quantify or predict the particular thoughts therein within the mind.



Thoughts do not. The physical activity of a brain does. But thoughts themselves are not quantifiable in that way, and as such they should fail your test of reality.

So should dreams, ideas and emotions as well as a great many other things which are intrinsic to the human experience. Your attempt to squeeze the human experience of reality into a physical mold where only measurable physical things are real, is absolutely unreal to any and every human being, my friend.

The bone of contention, reading from your post, is the definition of a thought.
You see, my dear friend, you forget that those 7 letters only attempt to define something. They are not the thing itself.
In other words, a thought is simply unique configuration of brain waves. The brain waves constitute the thoughts.

Therefore, if we can identify, observe, classify, and simulate brain waves, then we are quantifying what you call thoughts.

These idiots.
An NBA president that doesn't know the law and his own responsibilities.

DeepSight:
Don't you think you are being slightly disingenuous here?

For example, you know that thoughts are not predictable in the mathematical sense in which you set out your first definition of "reality" when I asked you. The fact that chemicals can influence mood for example is still no reason to state that thoughts themselves are observable.

When you observe electrical or wave activity in a brain, you are still not observing thoughts. You are observing activity, but not the thoughts themselves. The thoughts themselves could be anything - and you know that very well. You do not observe a persons thoughts nor are they mathematical or predicable in the way that you are trying to suggest.

It is true that thoughts corelate with electricity for movement. This does show us that thoughts and impulses exist, but in no way are those thoughts themselves observed, or mathematically predictable. Indeed, would you suggest that unobserved or unobservable thoughts do not exist?

This brings me to another mild matter. You have stated that "modern" science enables us to observe these things. This is true as far as the electrical or nervous activity is concerned - in the exact same way as it is true that we can now observe micro organisms whereas we once couldn't. It could be said - if one were to stay consistent with your definition - that such things did not exist and were not real at all - at the time that they could not be observed.

In this same way perhaps it could be said that this or that thought which cannot be observed, reproduced, tested or mathematically predicted, is not a real thing - or was not a real thing before the modern age - mark you, even in the modern age, such thoughts are not observable or predictable in the way that you suggest!

If we may take this further, we may effectively conclude that anything yet to be discovered by science does not exist - or more accurately, anything yet to be capable of observation, quantification and mathematical prediction is not "real."

This is a much too wanting definition of that which is real in this surreal world, and I would say that you are far too realistic in my estimation to adopt such a hollow and terribly wanting definition of reality.

It particularly surprises me that you say that all real things must be quantifiable. By what measures, I wonder.

Let me try to summarize it.
Scientifically, something doesn't exist until we have a way of detecting or observing it or its effects.
The Higgs-Bison particle for instance. Until we were able to detect it's chemical trails, we were safe to assume that it did not exist. What we observed with Super Hedron Collider was the residues, the footprints so to speak , of the particles, which servess as a confirmation of its existence.

Likewise, we do not have to isolate or capture individual thoughts to prove its existence. All we do is to prove that chemical molecules( which have mathematical corollaries) bond with neural cells to influence brain waves, which in turn affects thought patterns, moods , attitudes and behaviors.

With that in mind, we can mathematically design chemical molecules that , for instance, can elicit thoughts of euphoria, suicidal thoughts, and even violent thoughts.

In what other way can we show that thoughts have mathematical corollaries ?

Aufbauh:
Consolation message for wailers; The same old tale they keep telling us that we saw Buhari's failure before hand.....bla bla blah

I reiterate that the pervading mentality of i can't wait for Buhari to fails can only leads to Golgotha.

You simply don't get it, do you?

Nigerians, Wailers as you call them, are angry because Buhari has goofed so much that failure written all over the Administration.
In case you're blind and deaf, let me give you one good example: Our Democracy.
How has our nascent democracy fared over the last year and half?
How many inconclusive elections have we had since Buhari came into power?
What happened to the scheduled Edo state elections?

PassingShot:
Scannews indeed!

Anyway, the man is entitled to his myopic opinion. Greedy, selfish old fool he is.

I, PassingShot, an authentic Yoruba man from Ibadan, has never betrayed anyone, not the SW or the entire South, for contributing to removing the ultra corrupt, ultra clueless, wasteful and docile Ineffectual Buffoon from power.

If the same scenario is played out, under the same or similar circumstances, with the same gladiators of PMB and GEJ, I shall mobilize my entire family and those within my circle of influence to vote for PMB. QED!

My signature is for those who wish bad for Nigeria,

C'mon.
We all know that you are paid to write crap here.

seunmsg:
So, what's wrong if wealthy Nigerians offer some of their wealth to help the country get out of recession? We can learn from the patriotism of the South Korean women who supported the government of their country in a period of recession, I don't see anything bad in what he said.

fxxx that foolish delusion.

You can start the example.
I certainly will not follow.

Nigerians do already offer their wealth to the government.
It's called taxes.

On the other hand, what has this government ever offered the citizenry?
Pensioners dying while waiting to collect their pensions?

As long as our legislators are taking home N30m every month, anyone asking for more sacrifices from the citizens should be weary of being linched.

DeepSight:
By this measure, it would be safe to say that thoughts are not real.
Would that not be absurd, once it is considered that our entire existence is governed by thought?

How "observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable" are thoughts?
And if so, by what means Sire?

Thoughts are measurable, as far as modern technology has shown us.
Thoughts are electrical brain waves that can be detected, isolated and even manipulated,.and as such, must have mathematical corollaries.

If thoughts didn't have mathematical corollaries, then it would not be possible for chemical molecules with mathematical corollaries to interfere with and influence thoughts. Alcohol and opioids are examples of chemical molecules that influence thoughts.

Haven't you heard of disabled American war veterans that have electrodes wired into parts of their brains, and then use brain signals to control artificial arms and fingers?

Such would not be possible if there is no interface between thoughts, Brain waves and modern electronic apparatus.

DeepSight:
Because it seems to me that there rests a salient contradiction in saying so, whilst one propounds a quantum nature of reality - given that quantum physics deals very much in the random unpredictable and in much discourse even appears to defy mathematics.

And yes again.
There is a Quantum nature of reality. That Quantum phenomena appear random and unpredictable is simply because we are yet discern the complexity of the patterns of Quantum phenomena.

Quantum phenomena do have mathematical corollaries that can be modelled, and in the future, put into practical applications.

In fact, Debrogile's Equations show the mathematical corollaries of Quantum particles/waves.

DeepSight:
And how does your definition of "reality" adjust into, or take into consideration the metaphysical aspects of existence which I am fairly certain you do not dispute, given your take in the referred thread as well as your take on the "quantum" nature of spirituality - which you have oft propounded. Permit my use of the term.

More precisely - does your definition thus give us to say that that which is not observable, quantifiable - and mathematically so - and also predictably so - is therefore not real?

Yes.
Whatever is not observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable is logically safe to say that it is not real.

Real things have predictable qualities.

DeepSight:
I am quite surprised by this take considering your revert on the thread I last invited you to.

Why would you be surprised? I am not taking any new position that I have not taken before.

The last thread you are referring to was a discussion about a hypothetical situation where both the observable phenomena and the observer are simulations of a cosmic Super-Computer.

And naturally, until we can prove that to be true, we have to continue on the assumption that it is not so.

DeepSight:
I am quite surprised by this take considering your revert on the thread I last invited you to.

Pls elaborate.

Uyi168:
..I'm nt an atheist myself..strictly irreligious..

Uyi , so you have dumped Jesus again?

Na wa for you o.

DeepSight:
What is reality?

Rational, observable, quantifiable, mathematically deducible and predictable characteristics.

For example, you can either believe that hurricanes, floods, earthquakes and other weather and geological phenomenon are the wrath of angry supernatural deities or the rational, mathematically predictable realities that that enable taking safety and precautionary measures to safeguard life.

Likewise, wordy master, you can either take the second world war as an or.gy of European masochistic madness, or, you can waste your time on a thread pontificating on " The Spiritual Significance of The Second World War" .

Those are the distinctions between reality and delusions.

winner01:
Just what are these "superior" worldviews?

That reality is better than delusions.

AnonyNymous:
The way preachers enslave the minds of the masses is so shocking. I can't believe that functioning adults actually take the words of a few people who claim to be divinely inspired as the absolute, despite the obvious contradictions. These cunning people take advantage of the inability of their followers to account for the 'unexplainable', and fill in the gaps with LIES upon LIES. Its this same mental slavery that made them able to collect 10% of their followers' hard earned salary every month, but at the same time, all other passages in the 'old testament' that contradict their current lifestyle 'don't apply anymore'. Its a concept that still baffles me to an extent, and shows how powerful highly developed human intelligence can be harnessed as a tool to subdue the ignorant masses.

Here is a real life story I read on Quora this morning, which mirrors the same experiences in African churches of today:


In 1988, Televangelist Jimmy Swaggart admitted to cheating on his wife with a prostitute. He tearfully broke down on Television and claimed he had sinned because he visited a sex worker.



That should have been game over for his "ministry". He asked people to donate money to him for the work he did "for the Lord" and he preached about morality and the evils of things like rock and roll. And then he used some of the money people gave him to pay a prostitute.

So that should have been the end of him as a televangelist and he should never been able to beg for money on TV again with any kind of credibility.

But three years later he was still running a ministry and still getting people to donate money.

In 1991 he was caught with another prostitute, this time in his car. Rather than tearfully breaking down he said, and I quote, "The Lord told me it's flat none of your business."

And he just kept going. He keeps preaching about morality and people keep giving money to him.

Seriously people. If a guy gets caught cheating on his wife with prostitutes twice in three years, he's not someone worth listening to on issues of personal morality and you should NOT be giving him any of your money.

https://www.quora.com/What-scandals-should-NOT-have-been-forgotten/answer/David-Stewart-8

It gets even better.
His son also has his own TV ministry, also begging for funds.

shachris02:
For over a week now, I've been challenging them on one of my thread to explain to me how mediums operate, if everything in this world can be eplanined by science. Mediums are everywhere. These atheists wouldn't claim not to not know they exist.

mind you, I'm more of an agnostic myself.

Hilarious.

So, you expect an atheist to explain to you how mediums operate ?
Or Else?

Amazing, simply amazing.

Lol@ these people.

@Op.
It's natural for you to lash out at people, mentally sovereign people, whose worldviews renders yours completely null and void.

We feel your pain.

coolitempa:
He did not issue any death threats....he just offered the Igbos free use of the lagoon...

Yeah.
To swim and bathe .

How very generous of him.

dridowu:
PDP 1999 : We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2003: We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2007: We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2011 : We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2015 : We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2019 : We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2023 : We will win Lagos guber election
PDP 2027: We will win Lagos guber election

@bolded, most of the thing in life is almost

I didn't say I was putting money on it.

But the last elections, where Lagos was almost snatched from APC, shocked me , and scared the APC so such that the Oba of Lagos had to issue death threats to those whom he considered likely to vote PDP.

Mynd44:
Puff puff pass

PDP almost captured Lagos during the last elections.

With a very divisive APC and non-performing federal government, APC held states will feel the wrath of the citizens come 2019.