₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
It is not true that many adhere to religion and have no faith? It is not true that many have faith and adhere to no religion?
It is not true that faith is what I described it as: belief or hope in an idea, person or expectation?

What about these is insufficient to show you that religion is not the same thing as faith.

A religion is an established practice often by a group with a set of beliefs and practices.
My faith in a better tomorrow needs no organized religion: and there are indeed faithless religionists; you cannot deny that.

And what is spirituality? It is (or rather, should be, for each of us) what Nwankwo has described it as: and again: you of all people should relate to it: as you speak so often of energies: perhaps I may describe your spirituality as the essential energy or vibration that is the inner you.

That has nothing in this world to do with religion.

I have no disagreements with what Nwankwo has written, though I would have , as you rightly said, used more scientific terminology. The meat of his argument makes sense.

But my question remains; Is the scientific method not a better, the better way of discerning reality, rather than the obsession with " the spiritual ".

The " spiritual" and its vainglorious pursuits have historically bequeathed humankind nothing but confusing and contradictory philosophies and religions.

An engineer who designs, through the scientific method, a safer and shorter way to travel from point A to point B is a much more useful asset to humanity than a spiritual guru , sitting in idle meditations seeking Nirvana or trying to unite with the infinite oneness .

Don't you think So, sire ?

DeepSight:
Absolutely wrong sire.

There is indeed a difference between religion and faith. Many adhere to a religion and have no faith. Many have faith and adhere to no religion. I have faith and I do not adhere to any religion. Indeed, what is faith but belief and hope in something: in an idea, a person or an expectation? I have great faith in myself, I have great faith in love and I have immense faith in the grand order of all things (which many may call "the will of God" ).

In the grand scheme of things - a scintilla of which we cannot even conceive or apprehend, we are way too presumptuous to begin to judge and conclusively assess the justice of the Grand Order of things: of eras and epochs which we cannot and will never be able to conceive in the bird's eye view trajectory: we grope: worse than the blind men about an elephant: and ridiculously declare that which we know not.

Of all people: you ought to know better.

Unconvincing.
Too light on substance.

Daniel1990:
Look at the two pictures very well, one look modernise and friendly. The other look ancient, scary and jumpy.

Packaging matters.

It's all a matter of perspective, my friend.
Just perspective.

plaetton:
You are being evasive, sire.

Let me put it in another way.
Is there a difference between religion and Faith ?

Trying to separate religion and spirituality is like trying to separate Faith from religion.

It's the same tactics as trying to separate a bad Christian from Christianity.

DeepSight:
Jesus vs Pharisees.

Spirituality is not religion: go and repeat this 1000 times until you absorb it sire.

Organized religion is simply establishment politics - finito.

It has very little to do with spirituality in most instances.

You are being evasive, sire.

Let me put it in another way.
Is there a difference between religion and Faith ?

Trying to separate religion and spirituality is like trying to separate Faith from religion.

rev14vs11:
Hahaha in derision. then we shall who gets to laughs last?

That's right.
After you die, we shall see, shan't we ?

Lol.

rev14vs11:
Wise up Man before you bewail you foolishness in a miserable eternity!

Blackmail, the primary currency of the ignorant and deluded.

DeepSight:
It is not.

You conflate spirituality with religion.

Ok then.
From a historical perspective, kindly elaborate on the differences between the two.

mnwankwo:
Hello Plaetton. Thanks a lot for your response. The point I am trying to convey is that energies which you accept exists is a specie or the lowest gradation of spirit. I can explicitly say that energies are spirit particles enveloped by material cloak. Now, their is no life or reflection of life in matter without it being animated by various gradations of the spirit including energies (spirit particles). The absence of motion which we refer to as death is indeed the separation of the animating spirit (various gradations of it) from the material envelope. A dead man does not pursue scientific knowledge or produce arts or design buildings. What I am saying is that all activities of man including scientific pursuit and discovery is the direct or indirect work of the spirit.

Both spiritual diagnosis and medical diagnosis are activities of the spirit. One is making use of the spiritual laws enveloped by physical substances (scientific), the other make use of the same spiritual laws that are enveloped by non-physical substance. Both are not mutually exclusive but can work together in solving and finding answers to the so-called mysteries of life. There are of course charlatans in both fields of endeavor but that is not enough to dismiss the spiritual part of this endeavor as non-existent.

A spiritually enlightened person spreads the fruit of the spirit including love, humility, compassion, honesty, wisdom, insight, creativity, innovation, faithfulness, purity, forgiveness etc. You can accurately measure your stand spiritually by how much selfless love you radiate to all creatures and creations. Hate, bitterness, violence and all the other evils are not the fruit of the spirit and are absolutely incompatible with the nature and works of a spiritually enlightened person. Do not conflate religious vigor with spiritual enlightenment.

Science which you accept, is carried out by Spirits in physical bodies. A dead person ( a body without a Spirit) cannot do science. It is dead and will soon decay because only the Spirit can form and maintain the physical body. It is pure reductionism in my opinion to state that since spiritual things cannot be observed and investigated with material senses and instruments, then the spiritual does not exist. I am sure you will not say that viruses do not exist because you cannot see them with your naked eyes. Science uses physical senses, sensors and instrument but the spiritual uses spiritual faculties. Love, Love and love, then, sooner rather than later the spiritual faculties which appear to be silent at the moment will roar into life and the spiritual environments, planes, and realms will become more real than the physical universes. Then the interconnections of all that exists in both the spiritual and physical worlds will be crystal clear. Stay blessed.

Awesome ! Eloquent, as always.

But , what about history ?

What can we extract from history about the pursuit, the human obsession with " the spiritual " ?

DeepSight:
And a sorry and sad low minded opinion it is.

History is on my side.

seunmsg:
Going forward, MTN should be forced to enlist on the Nigerian stock exchange. By so doing, management will be more diffuse and they will have to make more public disclosure of their financial statements. Regulators and interested members of the public will also be able to monitor them more effectively on issues like capital flight.

I do agree with you 100℅ on this.
That should have been part of the original agreement before granting them the license.

Being a publicly traded company in Nigeria would mandate more disclosure and more loyalty to Nigerian shareholders as part of their fiduciary responsibility.

Ahmeduana:
IS NOT THE TRANSFER OF THE MONEY THAT IS THE PROBLEM, BUT THE TAX THAT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE PAID ON IT.

Thank you.
Very simple.

Tax is the issue.

awakeuche:
i may not exactly be Nigeria's strongest advocate, but do you realize how damaging it will be for our economy if investors keep transferring huge profits out of the country without paying tax to government? It simply means the company is robbing Nigerians without giving anything back in return, in lay terms its like an igboman who rents your land for a pittance, makes billions from his business and complains to you of bad economy to avoid rent increase while transferring his billions to develop his own community without impacting in yours first where he makes his billions... This should clearify two points

Let's put things in proper perspective.

If MTN evaded taxes in Nigeria, MTN should be made to dance to the music.
Simple.

If MTN transferred their own earned profits, their OWN CAPITAL out Nigeria for whatever reasons and by whatever means, then rather than sulking with this bad Belle, we should be rightly worried about why CAPITAL feels unsafe and taking flight from Nigeria.

We love blaming and scapegoating so much, that it has become a part of our national psyche.

CAPITAL has no sentiments.
It must take flight, through any means possible, when it feels unsafe.

We don't seem to understand CAPITAL and its dynamics.

The day we do, we might actually begin to properly harness the power of CAPITAL , and with it, build a more prosperous nation.

martineinstein:
u appeared to be smart in thinking....but u are a typical example of an educated illiterate

I take that as a badge of honor.

Enuguboy4nsk:
I guess u don't know that they're laws guiding fund transfer from the country u make your profit...read up the international money transfer laws are cure yourself of this ignorance.... intelligently typing trash

Far Two many halfbrains in this country.

fotune1894:
There is nothing wrong in transferring their profit but d problem was it was done illegally, d profit was made in Nigeria so it's paramount we deduct our tax b4 dey take d reminder anywhere dey want to, mtn laundered d money out of Nigeria to avoid paying tax

Well, if tax or tax evasion is the issue, then that should be properly investigated. And that's easy to figure out and easy to sanction and recover back taxes from their future earnings.

soletar:
Very unintelligent comment

South African companies e. g MTN , DSTV rob Nigerians blind with their unfair practices. Our past government have colluded with them. Thank God this government is even making an attempt to curtail them. if push comes to shove... MTN would lose more if they have to leave Nigeria

You must be a South African if not be ashamed to call yourself a Nigerian.

imagine defending the exploitation of your country

Yeah.
Think like Buhari.

How is that going so far ?


You wage a war against CAPITAL, you are guaranteed to loose.
No Hail Marys about.

And for the millions of unemployed people on the verge of starvation because there are not enough MTN's and DSTVs to give them stable employment, I suggest you console and feed them plates of your misguided patriotism.

kilokeys:
if the govt feels their profit margins are outrageously high , the best they could do for us as citizens is to enforce reduction of tariff, selling a percentage of shares to the public, but not restricting them frm moving their cash... bad belle pple

Thank you jare.

Give them incentives to reinvest in the economy, not bully them by putting counterproductive restrictions on them.

CAPITAL is very very sensitive to body language, the body language of the government and policy makers.

CAPITAL must rush out, by any means possible, when it feels threatened directly or through body language.

The body language, no, the body odour of this present government towards the FREE movement of CAPITAL has been very very odious, to be mild.

007Gbenga:
It seems they were trying to evade tax by declaring lower profits...that's a financial crime.

Better.

If there is evidence of tax evasion, then that is a separate issue that should be easily investigated and appropriately sanctioned.

Otherwise, I just don't see the reason for the brouhaha that a company smuggled its own CAPITAL out of borders. It's a simple Flight to Safety.

Rather than sulking and scapegoating MTN, we should be alarmed at the deteriorating economic conditions and policy flip flops that imperil the free flow of CAPITAL into and within our economy.

mukhcech:
How old are you? Tell me you did not see the word ILLEGALLY

That is exactly my point.

MTN's legally earned is money is MTN's money.
MTN has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to protect and manage its CAPITAL.

Putting restrictions on how a company that employs tens of thousands, generate billions in taxes , should manage its CAPITAL is tantamount to waging a war against CAPITAL.

There should be nothing illegal about an independent company moving its CAPITAL whenever and however they deem fit and in the best interest of their shareholders.

AreaFada2:
I do not trust the way Buhari is managing the economy with is flip-flop policies BUT they are talking about illegal transfer of funds here. Therefore, it is conceivable that adequate taxes may not have been paid in those funds.

Even if the policies are rather moronic in many cases, you still should not defy the rules a host country said you should follow. Instead negotiate with the authorities.

How many airlines are shutting down or moving out of Nigeria ?
How many companies have moved their operations out of Nigeria over the past year and half ?
Part of the reasons is that aside from not being able to repatriate their profits, the present government actually CHEATS them by mandating them to use unfavourable fixed exchange rates for their businesses.

CAPITAL always looks for safety .
CAPITAL always takes flight when it feels unsafe.

There are no sentiments and no patriotism in CAPITAL.

Even ordinary Nigerian politicians and citizens move their CAPITAL to safety, talkless of a foreign corporation with a fiduciary responsibility to its home shareholders.

Governments all over the world do a lot of things, grant a lot of concessions to woo CAPITAL, not wage a moronic war against CAPITAL.

Is MTN not entitled to transfer THEIR profits, their OWN money, to their home country ?

If we don't allow foreign companies to transfer their profits to their home countries, then why exactly would any foreign company be foolish enough to come and invest in our economy ?

MTN electing to transfer their huge accumulated profits over the years is simply a vote of no confidence in the present managers of the Nigerian economy.

I have always said it that this clueless government has been waging a moronic war against CAPITAL, a war that it is surely guaranteed to loose, .. unfortunately, to the detriment of 180m Nigerians.

chieveboy:
If you do an MRI for someone purportedly having their 'spiritual eye' open, you find extra-ordinary brain activity than the average person. Like Einstein.

Can you kindly give us a reference or links to where this study or experiment was performed or observed ?

ifenes:
Indeed the organised Christianity is totally Anti-Christ. And all these pastors owning churches are helping to further disintegrate the knowledge of self. It is clearly written in their book " greater is He(The Human Mind)that is in you than he( material world) that is in the world"

When a human developes his mind( gets in tune) with him or herself, they can move mountain and do what physics thinks is impossible. It is also said in that book they read all the time, that what Jesus did, the humans can do better. So why do they worship Jesus when they have the ability in them to do better?

The body of a human is the temple of God( The Mind) not the church buildings.

We could go on and on and school these Christians better than their pastors

Yes indeed.

What an irony.

mnwankwo:
@OP. Spirituality is the unfolding of our real self, the living essence in us. Such unfolding leads to self realization and a recognition of who we are, our place in the cosmos and out inter-connectedness with all that exists. Buried in our essence is the unimaginable talent to love without reservation. Spirituality permits this love to unfold, transform it from a talent into ability and then overwhelms us and our near and far environments. This love links us to the invisible power that pulsates in the Universe, the last condensations of this power, you plataeo normally refer to as energies. In the course of this spiritual evolution, the individual will at some point come to the recognition of the source of the power that pulsates in the Universe. Now, giving and receiving love is the basis of spirituality and without it, their is no life, no motion and all is dead. Connection with the vibration of Love (conscious or unconscious to the human brain) is the source and driver of all lasting progress. There is no person that has not at one time or another experienced genuine love. In those moments, your are linked with the the living power that created and maintains all creations and at that moment you can tap into this power and exposed to "infinite" possibilities of progress in all spheres, from simple things as a spontaneous charming smile to your neighbor to the most astonishing scientific invention. The so called Eureka moments on which many scientific inventions spring from, I will argue are not because the inventor has become creative, rather he/she spontaneously tapped from the power of "LOVE". Genuine love is an inherent manifestation of true spirituality. Where there is no love, their is no life, no progress, no motion but a dead, motionless mass of creatures and creations. Stay blessed.

A pleasure, as always, to read from you.

But, as heartwarming and romantic as the above looks and sounds, isn't it nothing more than good poetry ?

Yes, I do agree that we all experience and battle with different emotional states, from joy and ecstacy to sadness and madness.

What are the tangible benefits of the pursuit of the spiritual?
What does a spiritually enlightened person do for his society besides , perhaps founding a new religion , and adding to the confusion ?

Is the pursuit of scientific truth not the better arbiter of reality by encouraging better, more reliable understanding of reality ?

Which helps in giving us a longer, more useful life, -spiritual diagnosis( if there is such a standard) or medical diagnosis ?

Other than his after-death insurance policy, what good, for example, is a spiritually enlightened person in a cesspool of corruption, hate and violence such as we live currently in ?

My opinion is that the fact that spirituality has no standard upon which it can be measured, makes it superfluous and redundant to an evolving humanity.

ifenes:
Exactly. The Mind is God,it resides in us,our true self. False teachings have sort of separated it from us and it thus seem like it's up there in the sky. Meanwhile its always a part of us and only it can help us create a world we prefer. A perfect human has his God-Mind activated.

Jesus even supposedly revealed that to them when he said " the kingdom of God is WITHIN you ".

The religious fraudsters of the later centuries twisted that statement to read " the kingdom of God is AMONGST you " to perpetuate their control through the institution of the church.

See just how a deliberate mistranslation can turn a simple truth upsidedown ?

By removing the focus from SELF to an extraneous body, the Christians have been robbed of the genuine path to redemption and self- fulfillment, and instead, have been duped into supplicating to empty skies and useless doctrines.

There is no better Anti-Christ than the church of Jesus Christ.

ifenes:
Africans look for God in the sky while the average European knows his Mind is God.

This is a very very interesting way to look at it.

We atheists always insist that God is a product of the mind.
But in this line of thought , god can Also be said to reside in the mind.
So, what better way to tune in to God, tap into God, than through the mind, the you in you( borrowing from Deepsight) ?

Therefore, beseeching the sky is a futile exercise for those too lazy to think, to explore the inexhaustible resources of the mind, the birthplace and residence of God, the almighty.

Some misinformed and deluded fellows would come here to tell us that God resides in the outskirts of space and time.
How ridiculous!

Silly propaganda.

I can't help laughing at the article.

In which other country in the world , even third world basket cases, do we have 3 different exchange rates for the same currency in the same country ?

N304 is for whom or which sector of the economy ?

N385 is for whom or which sector of the economy ?

N450 is for whom or which sector of the economy ?

I can only shake my head .

Tremor007:
You are still being unnecessarily emotional about it.

Any person who doesn't get emotional, even to the point of tears, in seeing these gory images, this evil , is less than human, .. and that is what you are.

Pls , pls, stop assaulting our sensibilities ?

What are you ?
Which planet do you come from ?

I really pity the unfortunate humans who know you , and interact with you daily.

Lol.

I have said before, many many times, there is a strong correlation between religious faith and mental illness.

In fact, I once posted a thread showing that the founders of the worlds major religions suffered one form of mental disturbance or another, especially Temporal Lobe Epilepsy ( TLE), a mental disturbance that amplify and exaggerates the " religious experience ".
It is not surprising that Chinua Achebe wrote of the newly minted Christians in the heartland of pre-colonial Niger , " there is something akin to Madness(insanity) in their overwhelming method ".

9.
In biblical days, men held onto each other's Testicles when swearing oaths to and for agreements.

This is from whence we get the word Testi-fy or Testi-mony.