₦airaland Forum

It really is an approach that produces no interest in participating.

numo86: Is this post authentic??
If it is then its like chris needs some bible lessons...
Soon people can even smoke inside his church..
All this is just to drag more crazy fellows to his church...no discipline!!!!

Some pastors have done worse things than smoking inside a church.
It is best not go into details, but all we hear about cases of pedophilia in many churches

numo86: Since pounded yam is legal, how many people have you seen eating pounded yam in the middle of service. People just like to open their mouths and spew babash. And oh @Goshen360, the early church used alcohol for their Holy Communion-1Cor11:21. Read first then come and talk. Some people are really more holy than the Christ Himself, He should be praying to you lot for the forgiveness of His 'sins' should He ever commit any.

In all stands the Catholic Mass and the priest cadiz drink wine.
The ban on drinking alcohol is part of the stupidity of many Christians who believe that Christ most Christians.
They love the repression.

I was following this thread with attention and interest.
I am sorry that everything is being distorted in personal discussions that lead nowhere.
We all know that in this forum are uninformed fans, and the best choice is to ignore them.

In America (particularly Brazil), the first slaves could buy their freedom were women.
This occurred because the women in his free time cooking and selling their products so getting the money.
That fact led to the women were the first to organize the houses of different ethnic groups.
In these houses, kept the traditions, rituals, language, traditional music from each group.
They were also those women who managed to buy the freedom of their husbands and children, and in these houses of tradition, was made all kinds of help for the brothers, in addition to keeping alive the old traditions of Mother Africa.
Also in the religious were African women who recovered and kept alive the fundamentals of religion.
This is the place of African-descending in South America.
Prominently recognized on the basis of his sacrifice, love of the ancient traditions ....
A justly earned respect.
This contrasts with the traditions of some sects who believe natural and a "divine mandate", that both prophets and patriarchs had harems sex.o practiced with his young wife cheating on her ... That role of women as mere procreation, a prostitute, in contrast to the image of woman I narrated above.

ZUBY77: Please don't tell me what you dont know.
We have all heard so much good things about Heaven. Golden streets, flashy lights, good foods, Angels etc. What is so exciting about all that i mentioned above. I heard people dont die there, what is the value of life if there is no death ? Are we supposed to be praying and singing only to wake up and start all over again? Are we supposed to be wearing white garments only, what happens to my hugo boss and armani suits ?
All in all, doesnt Heaven sound boring to you since you can't do what you want ?
If there is a chance of me remaing here on Earth, that would be a huge relief.

Streets of Gold in the heaven...
I believe that those who have invented a heaven and wanted to idealize have exaggerated a bit with that ...
The old Yoruba saying that the world is a market for temporary stay, that our true home is Orun ...
Personally, I would not go to that heaven with streets of gold, angels with feathers (imagine the awful smell!), A god who plucks the harp horribly wrong, walking barefoot on clouds in winter! It may seem ironic but I do not like that heaven ...

gst101: i had an aurguement with my friend and he said that sir alex ferguson does not like black players. I mentioned some black players in man utd. I even said Evra and Ferdinand are Ferguson's captains but he said no. He said that; to the white man, there is a diff btw the likes of jamaine defoe and black africans.
I have not been to the UK before so i dont know. For those of you who have been to europe or america i want to hear from you.

Dear friend:
Although I have dedicated my life to the study of African culture, I am South American, and white as well, so I think I answer properly.
Worldwide there are racist people ... not only a racist who wants to exterminate those who are different from him, it is also secreted or racist who despises. I have noticed (I can be wrong) that the forum there are some people who feel somewhat inferior to Europeans, who seek the explanation for Africa's problems precisely those things that should be claimed, such as traditions, philosophy etc.
In the world there are whites who think they are superior to blacks, but it is also true that blacks are created inferior to whites. Both are absolutely wrong.
If a football coach is racist, deserves contempt. It is not a racial issue that many black ethnic groups have superior physique for many sports ... a football coach should know that.
There is only ONE difference between all humans, and results obtained in each specialty.
See this example: A white chess can overcome a black, but black will have better conditions for the math or physical performance. This is not about race, but it's personal.
The best football player of all time was Pele, and he is black!
If the world is racist because there are sick people.
Please accept my best regards!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

Okija_juju: Fact: Jesus Christ never sinned, never:

"For we have not an High Priest [see also High Priest to King of The World] which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15 KJV)


Fact: The first recorded miracle of Jesus Christ was changing water into wine, for people to drink:


"And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth His glory; and His disciples believed on Him" (John 2:10-11 KJV)

Fact: Jesus Christ drank wine, not only at the Passover observance every year (and, as He said, will do again in the future after His return), but at other times as well, as stated in the Scriptures:


"And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is My blood of the New Testament [see also Covenant and Testament], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom" (Matthew 26:27-29 KJV) [see also "Thy Kingdom Come" - When?]
"The Son of man is come eating and drinking" (Luke 7:34 KJV)

Question: Jesus Christ never sinned, but moderately drank wine, even miraculously produced wine for others to consume on one occasion. How then can drinking alcohol be a sin?


Halleluyah!!


Pastor Alusi Okija!!

Versions are available that indicate that Jesus drank moderately. Others point out as a great drinker of wine (white).
I agree with you that moderate drinking is not a sin (Jesus ultimately did).
Moderate smoking, nor should it be a sin (although Jesus did not smoke)
I further understand that sex is not sin in moderation.
It was God who gave man and woman the opportunity to have sex, that you love and enjoy happiness.
In short, I believe that pastors like all other people should drink, smoking and having sex ...
With regard to drugs ... I do not know ... at least not consumption, but perhaps not a bad thing and pastors should do it ...
I thought that a pastor should be something like an example for the community, with an irreproachable conduct and a moral ideal, is essential for the correct way to teach the faithful ...
But after reading this thread ... I think pastors should claim their right to access all the pleasures of life.
Halleluyah!!

greateros: Anapuna nwayi ajadu oku ya ma obu ihe nwe-nwe ya ni ike [thou shalt not forcefully take that which belong to the widow]

Kwayere ugwu ye nne gi na nna gi na ndi okenye na ndi ogbo nile toro ogbo gi! [honor thy father and thy mother and also honor your elders as well as all age grade older than yours - its has been in iwu igbo even before the advent of bible]

Ada na iwu mbosi nkpocha mmilli ma ubochi izacha afia na ubochi ndozi uzo na ubochi ndozi obi eze ma obu obi aluzi obodo [do not absent your self on days mapped our for cleaning of the stream, sweeping of the market, clearing of roads, and the days of cleaning the palace of the king and the days of cleaning the town shrine]

Atana muo! [do not expose the secret of the masquerade cult - that is for those already initiated into the masquerade cult]

etina onye obula ife ma obu nuo ogu nu bochi iwaji-ofuu na ubochi ede-aro ma obu nu bochi ofala igwe - ubochi ndia bu ubochi di na nso! [do no harm to anybody nor fight on new yam festival, coco-yam festival or the kings festival period because those days are regarded as sacred]

etiyen na aka na ajo ogwu ma obu na ajo ihe imegide mmadu ibegi - egbe belu ugo belu - OFOR! [thou shalt not involve yourself in bad charms or involve yourself in vices that will harm your fellow man - let the kite perch and the eagle perch!]

Umunne na umunna emegbula Onweha! [brothers should not harm themselves]

that's all i could remember for now. nice thread.

Your post is very interesting dear friend.
Basically because I understand that this is not a transcript of the commandments Catholics, but there are certain traditional elements in the content.
I read that for some African peoples, the lie was one of the biggest faults. Who lied lost all his titles and was dishonored because the lie was considered a betrayal of the ancestors.
Anyone can add anything?

emöfine2: Hi Ptolomeus

Some works are stigmatized especially those that pose as mediums or spiritual instruments. Regarding those works with a certain caution is then understood but some are just way over the top and round up all work as "witchcraft". I know some people who consider the Benin bronzes as "witchcraft" (maybe because of the animism and motifs depicted) but they didn't even behold the works before summarizing so it just seemed like trained behavior to me.

That's why I asked if work depicting spiritual themes could be detached from witchcraft but I suppose first of all African spirituality has to be detached from negative stereotypes.

One of my colleagues was narrating an encounter she had with her Ugandan friend and when she was witnessing some of the art in London she claimed that some could qualify as "witchcraft". Sometimes are we not just imagining things?

Hello dear friend:
Exactly.
I understand that not all religions are African animists. I do not ocncibo to Orisa as spirit, but as an emanation of the creator god.
So when I hear about generalizing African animism, I can not stop thinking that they are following the paths set by European settlers. It is contradictory that the Catholic religion, to worship the spirit of Jesus, and worship saints (who are the spirits of the dead), speak with such contempt of animism and spiritism, right?.
Let's see.
For the most part, religions, languages ​​and African traditions were studied by European missionaries, who made their interpretation according to their religious training. Based on that (big mistake) seen in some African deity symbolism of the devil and so considered ... also considered witchcraft (which is European) many of the ceremonies did not understand.
All this adds up, that the missionaries were very profitable cause fear by saying that he was worshiping the devil. That continues today, possibly because of naivete, or ignorance of their own traditions.
How not to transfer it to art?
Best wishes

chukwudi44: It is a fact that slavery did not live up to christian principles.However restricting it's historical practice among christians to the catholic church is just like trying to rewrite history overnight.FYI slavery was not just practised among predominbantly countries but also in those countries that as a preponderance of protestantism.To sum it all we all are guilty of slavery inclluding protesdtants,muslims,agnostics,atheists e.t.c its historical practice was never restricted to any religious sect

Excuse me, but not all are guilty of slavery.
I wonder what guilt have Africans, American Indians and people of peace? ... Against them was the greatest genocide in human history, and was encouraged, planned, agreed and coordinated by the Catholic Church.
As in the Crusades, as with the Inquisition, were committed the worst atrocities imaginable in the name of Christ the King!
You deny that the Catholic Church said that blacks were animals that had no soul, and they deserved to be treated like beasts!
Do not attempt to defend the indefensible. Do you want me to narrate how they produced the movement of Africans in the slave ships to America?
Probably does not know! Surely you do not know, that the few survivors were sold as beasts, and the sick were abandoned on the beach for eating dogs.
I just narrated undeniable historical facts, I am not defending the Islamic or the Pentecostal ... tamabién latter have done enough damage ...
I do not know if what you say is bigotry or ignorance, but anyway is outrageous.

PAGAN 9JA:
You christians can kill our children, accuse them of witchcraft, desecrate our idols, burn down our temples and do all the evil things you do, BUT I SWEAR BY THE GODS, [size=16pt]YOU WILL NEVER KILL OUR SPIRIT![/size]

10!

I do not understand how in a civilized country can afford this kind of thing.
These frauds should be imprisoned for using children is their lies, to do so publicly ...
The irony of all this is that these guys call themselves "Christians" and who do not accept witchcraft ... EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO THAT LOW AND DIRTY ... WITCHCRAFT!

2buff: ...( You have run out of things to blame and You are trying to blame the bible for your life failures.
And I am simply telling you are just plain silly for doing so.
Nigerians have this unfortunate attitude of waiting for God to do all the work instead of working WITH him.
I am fully aware of all that noise on "reasons why the blacks fail" and it is all a bunch of hogwash aimed at transferring blame to everything else but themselves

As you say, look to blame the failures on others is wrong ...
As you say, do not blame the bible what happens to us.
(I agree)

2buff: ...(

Spiritually, I see what God sees. And that is that We are more than conquerors.
Anything short of that is what you have joined the devil to see for yourselves

But ... as you say, blame the devil and his followers ....
Well ... I think there is any contradiction between what you said first and said now ...
Why this kind of discussion always ends up blaming the devil?
Will is the simplest solution?

logicboy: I am sorry, if I attacked you wrongly! Your comment wasnt clear to me, it looked like you were defending the slavery of the past. Sorry

Dear friend ...
Thanks for being an honest person. Not all people recognize a mistake, and we are all human and make mistakes. I also told him as hard. Excuse you.
First, my English is very bad (I'm Uruguayan), I am a researcher of African culture, an advocate of African traditions here in my country ... That's why I hurt so much your comment.
But this demonstrates that beyond language barriers and misunderstandings when people are honest and ethical sense are always understood.
I extend my hand to you a friendly and hope you accept me as a friend.
I also apologize if I said harshly.
Get you a hug.

logicboy: You are a slavery apologist eh? Out of ignorance, you conveniently denied that the catholic church did not support slavery! Bad news for you- The catholic church officially supported slavery in its canon law by Pope Gregory IX.

Christianity was brought to Nigeria with slavery and colonialism. The Portuguese that came were christians and so where the British. There are even quotes in the bible supporting slavery;

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them

What about churches and pastors having slaves?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-19-southern-baptists_x.htm

I am sorry to say this, but I think you can not read or did not.
If you read carefully what I wrote, you will notice that I am following the reasoning of those who posted just to show me his mistake. If, as you say I am an apologist, I am of the sufferings of the slaves, against the abuses of the Catholic Church that I denounce here permanently in the forum.
Read my posts please both you and do not rush to judge people.
It's always good to read first, then reasoning, and finally if, writing.
Rest your hands a little, and exercise your brain.
Thanks, and sorry if I offended you, but what really hurt you told me unfairly.
My respects

Rapmoney: Simple...Juju,evil witchcraft, bad belle, tribalism, ethnicity, religious bigotry,
wuruwuru politics,'only-me-must-eat syndrome, e.t.c.

...i beg i dey come o!

I agree with you on many aspects you mention.
But (very respectfully) do not believe that ethnicity and tribalism have nothing to do with it. All peoples of the world have their traditions, and that does not mean that produce delay. Did I mention that the legacy of acculturation and loss of identity that have left Europe in Africa has caused more damage than that.
But it's just my opinion.

emöfine2: I always wince when the word “discover” is attached to any group of people or individual that were never the creators nor even the first to encounter such. Reminds me of Mungo Park

Sure, they were confronted with different or if you like "primitive" cultures and even borrowed and shared with some of them.

(But I believe one of the mistakes some people made in the past and perhaps even now is to use European or ”white” culture as the yard stick. Hence those who failed to measure up to the standard or those societies that were far removed from the exemplar were most likely judged unfairly or prematurely.)

Consider the different climates that exist in both the continents of Europe and Africa. Africa is hotter than Europe. Thus will you not consider the purpose behind a “grass hut” instead of implying that such architecture is a product of a less evolved society? By that reasoning shall one conclude that an igloo is “less advanced”? Were “grass huts” the only form of architecture in Africa?

The Mali and Benin Empire (to name a few) had “huge cities and industries” which were even narrated among some European circles so what informed you that Africa had not even such as these?

From your first sentence it appears you have provided a key. So primitive = less advanced? Ok.
Trading with the Chinese, Indians, Europeans, Arabs (and this is before the poignant event of slavery that haunted West and Central Africa and parts of East) and not being dependent on Aids constitutes as a “primitive economy”?

No one’s achievement should be summed up or categorized by their colour especially as no great feat has been achieved independent of assistance.
One of the most efficient forms of technology today – solar energy - was practised in ancient times. Today it’s a mark of an advanced modern society. Like they say there is nothing really new under the sun, many things today are just an adaptation of what were.

Africa has given so much that it would be criminal to even discredit or overlook that.

When you begin to narrate the history of Africa from 500 years ago and only consider that period as Africa’s history in summary you commit a grave error because not only do you buy into the stereotypical role of Africa but one may start to believe and accept that civilization was imported into the continent. If you had gone even further into history you may have studied Africans such as the moors who had ventured into parts of Europe (Spain) and ruled there; bringing technology, literacy, medicine, science etc. The first (if not one of) university in the world is said to be in Timbuktu Mali, West Africa. Know yourself before others start deceiving you.

Excellent.
After reading this statement, little can be said ...
In South America it is said that when the Europeans arrived, the Indians gave mirrors for gold. I do not know if that story is real or if it is a symbolism. But I have great concern when associated with a thatched hut with underdevelopment, and not have a capitalist economy (what is happening economically in Europe and USA?) Is associated with impaired ....
What is really worrying is not the straw hut, but the dependent mentality, thinking that the other model is the best when it is not.
Europe and North America are not examples for Africa and South America.
Imitate is not evolve, but others will look like when we have different identities and essences.
Asphalt the jungle is not a way to evolve, however.

My most sincere congratulations for the excellent contribution, dear friend.
The article is really great!
Articles like this give value to the forum, contribute to cultural enrichment, research, and respect for traditions.

My deepest thanks!

ezeagu: Source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Sn5pK8rbR5MC&pg=PA144 — The transatlantic slave trade By James A. Rawley, Stephen D. Behrendt

Sorry if I return you to the main topic of the thread.
The information you submit is the British trade, not of the whole slave trade. Do not forget that the primary dealers were not the British, but the Portuguese and the Dutch.
Do not forget that the slave tráfrico to America (to all America, not just USA) was produced by "waves". That is, in the beginning, the vast majority belonged to ethnic groups that had undergone in tribal wars and sold to slavery, but over time, other people were subjected in tribal wars and in turn sold to the slavers. This fact rules out the possibility that trade traffic has remained constant with a tribe.
Another important fact, that we should not forget, is the function for those slaves that were required. For hard work in mines, plantations of cotton, coffee, cocoa, was essential to have strong physical slaves, while for rural or domestic tasks, child slaves were required complexion, and considered less rebellious.
For example, in South America, with exception of Brazil and Cuba, the vast majority of slaves was of origin Angola. Yoruba groups became part of the traffic quite some time before the same trade was abolished, and was declared in most countries the end of slavery. Still, Cities like Keto were literally washed away.
These and many other historical events, let me not agree with your statement about the hegemony of one ethnic group in the slave trade.
Anyway, your article is excellent, a wonderful contribution.
A very respectful greeting and thank you very much!

Rapmoney: I support the idea that we should be proud of our native names,
but if the name means something that is not worthy, you can change it.
It is not by force to bear a particular name...i mean we should not be subjected to that
torture of answering names that are not worthy. kpakam!!! I rest my case.

I totally agree with you.
In the sad days of slavery, Africans were sent to America in the dark holds of slave ships. Those who died were thrown overboard, and the few survivors were forced to change their native names to Western names, taking of course the name of the new master.
I insist that slaves were forced to change its name.
I think something has changed since then. Truth?

emöfine2: I have no doubt in my mind that everyone appreciates art in one form or another.

Art is stimulating and omnipresent and plays a significant role in society in extension civilization.

However art in relation to African heritage is often stigmatized by those who would have otherwise inherited these arts or would have been best placed to appreciate them.

The condemnation of continental art by suspicious natives is quite alarming especially when such sentiment contrasts with non-Africans who highly regard these pieces. Condemned works that posed as a testament to the sophistication of African civilization and partly redeemed the continents reputation and esteem.

Granted, some of the arts have links to spirituality and some of the art have unique functions.

But is that a legitimate reason not to appreciate or condemn African art?
Can African art with spiritual themes be separated from “witchcraft”?

What some Africans despise in some of these representations is what actually makes those works unique. Art imbued with spiritual undertones is rather sublime as it has a soul.

But what is even more damaging than showing contempt for some of our art is when one who clearly has a low disregard for their background and motivated by outside approval or gain will illegally sell or donate national treasures as a gift thereby selling their culture low in the process.
When a high personality such as General Yakubu Gowon supplies a national treasure as a gift to the Queen adding to the already hefty loot of her country and undermining his compatriots campaign in reacquiring their stolen works I honestly wonder where is the pride and respect.

Where does such attitude come from?

My respects dear friend:
First, I insist (and not get tired of it) that witchcraft has its origins in Europe, not Africa. Linking African religions or traditions of witchcraft is a serious error (not yours, of course, but people in general)
I understand that is a serious mistake to undervalue a work of art in its religious connotation. Do not be Catholic to appreciate certain works of Michelangelo, nor should it be Islamist to marvel at the architecture of some mosques. Very respectfully, I believe that Africa has much religiously polarized, and link art with witchcraft may be the result of European interest in the acculturation of Africans. Any nation would preserve those pieces as a historical treasure, for a foreigner like me that are difficult to understand given away, (worst of all is that I doubt very much that the Queen of England just understand the true value of these pieces).
Possibly the greatest wealth that Africa has its culture, its traditions, which are valued around the world ... (paradoxically, everyone except in Africa).
A warm greeting!

tpia@:
...

Excellent contribution!.
Apparently you are a very instructed in the arts and history of your people, besides being very polite.
My respects.

Hello dear friends:
I am fairly new to the forum. I registered in November 2011.
If we add that do not speak English, because I am a foreigner, I must admit that all I have been very well received. It is logical that a forum has discussions, and sometimes even anger, but that is part of the essence.
I think the key is not to offend, and not disqualify the other.
Do not forget that hard with whom we are discussing today, possibly tomorrow we agree on another topic. Let's take the word "tolerance" and not say what we not like to be told.
I had the good fortune to meet friends, I have no enmity with anyone and I do not have anyone with me.
I think it is very wise friend said Odumchi:
"If you would like to Participate in a discussion, you are free to despite what anyone says. Be bold and stand your ground"
This thread is interesting.
I would like to take this opportunity to greet all with special affection.

jmoore: It is question, he knows that he knows that Jesus is real. The question with "if" was asked from skeptics perspective. Jesus is real, some muslims who converted to Christianity have seen him.






this writeup of yours looks so........, I'll leave it and just go my point

The institutional church and true Christianity are not always synonymous. Professing Christians many not live up to the ideals and practices of its Founder ("Faith without works is dead," Jas. 2:26).

Renaissance popes are not Christianity; St. Francis of Assisi is.

Pizarro and Cortez are not Christianity, Bartolome de Las Casas is.

Captain Ball, a Yankee slave captain, is not Christianity, Wilburforce is.

Those who got involved in the evil acts were acting outside the word of God

Exactly: "this writeup of yours looks so ........"
You say:
1. Who encouraged the enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Africans were not Christians, it was not the official position of the Catholic Church.
2. Those who tortured, rap_ed, killed Africans, and said they were animals and had no soul were not Christians, nor was that the official position of the Catholic Church.
3. Who exterminated the American Indians were not Christians, and that was not encouraged by the Catholic Church by official edicts.
4. Those blessed gunpowder and cannon bombardment of Guernica killing innocent women and children were not Christians, nor was that the official position of the Catholic Church
(I'll leave here, but could follow)

All good Catholics were ... and who will be good in future also be Catholics.

Excuse me dear friend, but his analysis is not only biased but extremely superficial. Does not resist the scrutiny.

You say that Bartholomé de las Casas was a christian, but all antedictos sentenced to death hundreds of thousands of people were not Christians?

I guess it's a bad joke ... in very bad taste.
If you were not kidding, would offend the memory of hundreds of thousands of martyrs, and possibly their own ancestors.
I think it would be too high a price to defend a belief that harbored murderers in the name of Christ King.
My greatest respect.

mkmyers45: Interesting analysis, it really doesn't speak well of god.

Thank you very much dear friend.
I do not judge anyone's beliefs. Erl Everyone has the right to believe what he thinks is right. But, just as I have the right to express my opinion.
I understand that you can not take seriously a religion that makes up a demon to make him bear all the blame for everything bad that happens, and that idealizes a god almighty and perfect (which ends in the contradiction of having created all evil) .
They assemble the head and tail of the snake.
If we analyze seriously the explanations on the existence and actions of the devil and that God, we will see that it is a children's fable ... simplistic and easy, but very inconsistent.
Paradoxically, there is something "Kafkaesque" (Franz Kafka) in all ...
If we start from the premise that there is a god and a devil of these special characteristics, everything else is fairly credible, including also the biblical passages that contradict each other, or biblical quotations that express a thing or otherwise, depending on who to test.
I personally do not believe in that god, or the devil, or in the pseudo mathematical equations intended to demonstrate that poker is the devil and God is pretty ugly.

Image123: They were deceived to thinking they'd fare better outside God's purpose for them. They were deceived not dissatisfied. Devil wasn't dissatisfied with Heaven, he was dissatisfied with God. His punishment was to be denied Heaven, and he fights tooth and nail today, to make sure man doesn't 'make' Heaven.

That is the vesion of God.
Perhaps the devil is another version. Nothing assures us that the devil so tired of arbitrariness, as God allowed bigamy see your friends (Abraham, David, etc) and that God would project the total destruction of entire villages in your name, the devil has started a revolution ...
Or simply the devil have decided to leave, because as I said at the time, God plays the harp horribly wrong ... (not even the devil can stand)
Anyway, was a big mistake of god create the devil ...

It depends on the perspective of each.
For most main thing is to collect the tithe.

At some level everything is important.
A candidate for President would hardly permit a picture without makeup, hairstyle, and offering his best profile.
At some level everything is important.
A candidate for President would hardly permit a picture without makeup, hair, and offering his best profile.
Even the color of clothing is recommended by experts.
Many details are thoroughly studied by experts.
What you mention about the voice is perfectly credible.
But the gestures, the smile, the look ... all due to a position recommended by experts, who study how to achieve the desired image to the desired effect.
Many details are thoroughly studied by experts.
What you mention about the voice is perfectly credible.
But the gestures, the smile, the look ... all due to a position recommended by experts, who study how to achieve the desired image to the desired effect.

Yes, logically, that occurs everywhere.