₦airaland Forum

how did they do it? had you already put the money in your bag before paying them? how did they switch it? was it magic? lol

[quote author=Okija_juju][b]I beg to differ...

The Nigerian Government (Not Goodluck Jonathans Government o!) is a weakass entity that negotiates with terrorists that they cant subdue.. This is the exact same thing that happened with MEND. When the militancy thing became a hot mess in the Niger Delta with bombings, kidnappings and attacks on oil installations, the government sent in its forces. At one point, the Chief of defence, Heads of the 3 branches of the Armed forces, I.G of Police were all forced to relocate to port-harcourt and remain there until they bring the militancy under control by Obasanjo.. Any Port-Harcourt resident will recall the Bundu Waterside raid. The Government came by sea, air and land for that raid.. They mounted military war-time type checkpoints all over the region where people had to come down from their vehicles and be patted down by stern looking soldiers.. The Nigerian Navy increased its patrol in the creeks.. Still, these guys were killing soldiers and Naval men like flies.. Next thing, the government called these terrorists to the negotiation table. TODAY!! Asari Dokubo and his crew are living big in Abuja. A terrorist like him has easier access to the President than law abiding citizens. Asari Dokubo, Ateke Tom, e.t.c and Niger Delta militants get the same amount as some ministries in our federal budget every year.. So the lives that were lost to their actions are irrelevant. Families whose loved ones died as a result of the actions of these terrorists didnt recieve a penny in compensation, but Asari has made billions legally from the Federal Government..

BOKO HARAM now is here.. They have killed and slaughtered countless innocent Nigerians. Bombed churches, slaughtered students, killed business people, murdered National Youth Service Corps (NYSC) members, killed soldiers, killed policemen, robbed and pillaged banks and commited crimes that can even be argued to be treasonable in nature.. As usual, the government sent in troops into troubled/hot states, houses were raided, people were shot, thousands of arrests were made, bombs were discovered, but the more the government did, the more Boko Haram continued to wreck havoc and show that they were still in control.. In the course of all these, high ranking Politicians have been fingered, high profile suspects have been arrested in the houses of high government officials, yet nothing substantial has come out. The government decided to try the [color=blu]carrot & stick[/color] methos that failed woefully.. Finally, they have doe what they can do best which is cave and negotiate..

By Next year, the same thing that happened with MEND would happen with BOKO HARAM.. The cameras would roll out after the negotiations for a big disarmament parade, where Repentant BOKO HARAM members would gather in stadiums around the North and hand over Guns, bombs and other things to the governors of the states.. Abu Qaqa would be known figure as he would be seen in Aso Rock dinning with the President, granting interviews on Television and print media, driving flashy cars, living in Abuja and getting federal contracts. All Boko haram members would get amnesty and more money would be provided for them in 2013 Budget. Rehabilitation Camps would be built all over the North for them. The government would start sponsoring them to the middle east for skills acquisition training and to Saudi Arabia for Hajj, all these and the people who lost their lives to these terrorists are left to their fate. The terrorists take centre stage. The picture is painted that all is well.. Some Alayes in Yoruba land sees this and decides to go for it.. And the cycle continues.... When would it stop?! We are rewarding criminals and telling Nigerians that it is better to be a terrorist than a law abiding citizen.. MASSOB and other Igbo liberation activist groups that have followed the peaceful route are easily rounded up and jailed.. but Boko Haram and MEND are negotiated with... And you think it is all good... HMMM!!

THE WORST IS YET TO COME IN THIS COUNTRY... Unemployed Nigerian Graduate Militant Group is yet to form.. That would be the deadliest terrorist group this country would ever have to deal with. Chemical, biological and full combat warfare.. Na that time we go know.. [/b][/quote]this soo makes sense! hopefully if any western group were to arise they will stick solely to killing politicians and their children and not innocent civilians.

esere826: @queensmith

I don't know if you see what I see
Putting on a political spec, I can see a subtle blackmail to the western governments, that if you want Nigerians to lead this battle, you'd better spend more money on them. Chikena!!

But I think the naughty writer just couldn't get it. She was more excited about writing a shallow soft-sell that fits her her pay masters model for Africa

I see what you refuse to see, and the conspiracies cooking in your brain.

Spending on the military is imperative, which is why they are often funded and supported for this (by these western governments btw). Maybe if you focused less on all these absurd conspiracies and focused more on the corrupt government that seem allergic to quality you will notice this.

Our security threats are soo high because they don't seem to realize they need to spend money!

esere826: @ queensmith

infact em, I dey vex
Afua should have simply explained what she meant by indiscipline
We all know that the Nigerian military lacks human rights ethos (even she says she witnessed our boys brutality https://twitter.com/afuahirsch)
She's a lawyer and I guess will be passionate about this

But she no for try equating indiscipline to say "our boys no sabi fight"
na there I get beef with am

She fine sha, so I forgive her for trying us

Of course, skill and discipline leads to shooting sporadically at civilians, shooting protesters in the genitals and having no grip on terrorist organisations within the country.

Ah ah, are they gentle? You obviously want to be blind to any wrongdoings of the army, they are absolutely barbaric, there are videos of them on youtube shooting unarmed suspected boko haram members.

The last statements doesn't even make any sense, we don't want them to go around fighting anybody do we? A combination of skill and discipline is needed for a successful army otherwise you have them running around like they often do in Nigeria raping killing and stealing.

She's not the only one who has witnessed it, there are plenty of examples that attest to their brutality.

esere826: Common queensmith
when you ask for source, what exactly are you asking for?
That I reference where Chima talked about her professors 'in-the-box' mentality regarding the African narative?
or is it Nigerian military econiums outside its shores?
If that is the case, then I dare say the writer and I are in the same boat without much references

I was asking for evidence, simply disagreeing with the article and stating the journalist doesn't have the 'belly' to criticize the army isn't a sensible argument. Its completely irrelevant whether you like the journalist or not.

I don't see what relevance Chima has with this discussion, or how her narrative poses as evidence defending your point.

esere826: Common queensmith
She then goes on to quote a "senior source in Mali" as providing her with this 'gossip'.
And is this what we are to rely on?
Is this person a Malian, a West African, a Westerner, a bureacrat or in the military?
what is this person's objective?

Of course, going by your logic we must rely on the fact that the Army has previously been involved in (western backed) successes to dismiss any criticisms.

This 'gossip' isn't completely insensible, recent events have indeed shown us the Nigerian army lacks the discipline required in todays world (before you try to change the meaning of the word again, yes it includes a regard for human rights and rights to a fair trail. Military officers in foreign countries go to prison for most of the crimes committed by the Nigerian officers daily.) Lets not forget they haven't been able to apprehend the terrorist situation Nigerians are currently experiencing and there have been a number of botched military operations more recent to the past glory you keep citing.

Let me emphasize, the author or her sources doesn't change the point the article was making, and I'm sure there are more than enough resources available on the internet for you to pursue a more intense critique of the Nigerian Army.

Again, that the western media have pointed out this obvious flaw doesn't mean we should maintain an arrogant stance and dismiss all claims. We have a corrupt government and possibly a weak army. They may be the largest in West Africa but the whole of the ECOWAS don't set the bar very high. Hence why mali has been taken over.

esere826: What both sources agree to, is the need for funding or better still logistic support
But, it is so clear from her article that she ran with her 'senior source's' subjective account

A big question is why was she swayed towards drawing such haphazard conclusions?
My bet is that she conciously or subconciously arrived at a caption and news that fits a western press lopsided narrative

We still need evidence that the article is indeed subjective. Are the military indeed capable of basic military manouvres? Are most officers trained and tested? Have they demonstrated these in their conduct within Nigeria and in dealing with domestic problems? Have you answered any of these questions? Do you have a source that answers these questions?
Then why are you insistent the article is subjective and filled with gossip? As opposed to an observation any hilly billy can make by reading the damn news!

The article clearly explains why those conclusions were made, lets not run around in circles over the matter. Western press lopside narrative indeed, you prefer the Nigerian Army be commended for being barbaric?

[quote author=HammedSodiqq
The sect, among others asked for compensation for its killed members; that its demolished mosque be rebuilt; that its members in custody be released; and that the dialogue venue should be in Saudi Arabia.
“There is concern that the dialogue may not yield the desired result. Even now, attacks are going on in spite of the peace moves by the group.”[/quote]Of course it's not going to yield a desired result, look at these conditions. They should all be bloody out of the question! The government should fund their terrorism, rebuild their bomb making shelters and release more militants to strengthen them? The response should be a flat out no way!

and of course attacks are going on, there is nothing to guarantee attacks will not continue since the group is hardly organised and consistent with what they do.

Surely there has to be a better way to deal with these people?

esere826: @queensmith

kryptonites?

Anyway sha, the writer's article is an intellectual scam.
She simply wove her story around a narrative that the west enjoys hearing and presented same as news
a narrative in which african nations are ridden with corruption, poverty, hunger, crime and incompetence -*yes tis true*
and in need of western heroes bringing financial and intellectual aid (plus religious salvation in the not too distant past)-*this is condescending*

*Chima Adichie of the 'half a yellow sun' fame also alluded to such a narrative which her professor was not impressed that she was jettisoning*

Yeah, we have terrible issues, but all stories must not be forced into that mold
She just cant go around cherry-picking points here and there to fit into a preconceived endgame

You still haven't provided any evidence to back up your points. Repeating it over and over again doesn't prove anything.

shymexx: I'm not a big fan of the Nigerian army - however, Afua Hirsch(the chic who wrote the op-ed on the Guardian UK) is notorious for writing crap and ill-informed articles... Despite their deficiencies, the Nigerian Army still remains the best in West Africa(Africa is a different ball game entirely)... No other country would have achieve what they achieved in both Sierra Leone and Liberia - with the obsolete tools they had... They lost many brave men and women, however, they were gallant in victory... The capture of Freetown still remains one of the greatest military maneuvers in the history of modern warfare - salute to those men and women...

ok first of all, it's in the interest of the Ecowas to keep this under control and definitely in the interest of Nigeria to make sure a neighboring country isn't run by terrorists. Disorder isn't favorable to anyone

No2, I googled Afua Hirsch and I didn't find any scandals attached to her name. In fact it seems she is a commendable journalist and the Guardian is one of the nations best newspapers. (imo the best). If she really was notorious as you say I should have seen something indicating so? No?

No2 3, West Africa haven't set the bar very high in terms of quality, its not as if we can compare the army to one in a developed country. Even if we can't afford to stockpile weapons we should at least have a disciplined organised army.

ROSSIKE: Go and learn, research the Nigerian army before commenting because you're obviously ignorant. And you can take that Guardian report and wipe your asss with it.

yes, this is certainly the enlightened educated views the argument clearly needed. Thank you for your contributions, has made soo much difference!

esere826: @queensmith
Our army has been know to serve comendably offshore
The writer even alluded to this by citing success stories of Nigeriaan military

Its funny because thats the part I will have classed as the 'soft sell.

esere826: @queensmith
They might be indisciplined in their internal fights alright
but the meaning of 'indisplined' in the two scenarios (onshore and offshore) are quite different
I think she erroneosly transposed the definition of one on another or somehow got it mixed up

What exactly makes the meaning of indiscipline different? You have to explain further. What exactly suggests the Nigerian military's indiscipline is subject only within the nations borders?
Your argument of semantics is a weak one, I am yet to observe evidence of this at all, and the sources are indeed correct. Charity begins at home, if an army cannot be organised in its home how exactly will they thrive in (foreign) battle?

esere826: The indisipline that she refers to seems to reflect a ragtag army, much like the Libyan rebels that where almost uncontrollable and disorganised because of lack of proper training
In Nigeria, when we say the military is indisciplined, we mainly refer to their disrespect for human rights (like you rightly noticed), and not their submission to military au

Right, so the Army is not indisciplined even though they have no regards for human rights because the meaning of indiscpline in Nigeria is different? WOW!
And lets not over flog the one word you seem not to understand, the article also mentioned the lack of skill and inability to carry out basic military manouvres, is this also subject within Nigeria alone? Or do they gain extra powers on leaving the country due to the absence of Kryptonite?

I'm not even surprised at the information given I don't trust the Nigerian government to make the much needed investments to correct things, the situation in Nigeria reflects this.

esere826: @queensmith
As per the journalist skills (not qualification). I think this is extremely important
I won't expect a strong, rigorous media analysis of global military strategy from Dele Momodu of Ovation

Of course you do, you don't agree with the journalist, hence the ad hominem in attacking her skills or qualifications, or warreva you feel she has and doesn't have.
It's not the first time these comments have been made and it certainly won't be the last.

kolexy: Ondo state is the 5th biggest oil producing state in Nigeria. It is distant 5th to the gig four - Akwa Ibo, Rivers, Delta, and Bayelsa. The Governor has been re-elected to continue painting roundabouts.

how did i not know this? lol

since when? did the ekiti people know this before the seceded?

esere826: I read the article
It lacks depth and appears to be built around rumours and condescending preconceived notions
passed of as rigorous analysis

Also, the authors profile doesnt seem to belly the skills needed for such miltary assessment

in fact, too much gaps in the article. Almost like a soft sell

I disagree with you, is it not the same Army shooting at Nigerian citizens sporadically? Murdering protesters? Is that discipline? A result of skilled military efforts? A demonstration of superior military training?

A journalist doesn't need his/her qualifications appraised to observe or report on that. The article doesn't at all seem far fetched, the Nigerian Army have shown us they can be indisciplined, if they can't deal with Nigerians I don't trust they can handle foreigners.

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]I am just on page 6 and I already have a headache. . . Please, Please, Please someone direct me to the article where it states that the illegal immigrants being discussed here are fellow Nigerians not originally from Lagos state?

The last I checked, we have people from Niger Republic, Benin Republic, Cameroon, Togo etc trooping into the country... specifically Lagos State. So why can't the Illegal immigrant status in the article posted in the OP be referring to those ones? Or is it that we just want to have silly arguments by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of Illegal immigrants?!!

Although I have my doubts on how this whole thing will be implemented, considering there is no unique Identity number for each person and how easy it is to get any kind of official document (I have a friend who was born in the North and managed to get a BC stating he was born in Lagos State. . .and he wasn't even in the country) State IDs are a new thing. In the US, If you have been a resident of a state for more than 3 months, you are required by law to change your ID and DL to that state's. . .it does not matter which state you were born.

SO abeg, what is the lalakokofefe in the matter? Why are people having a conniption fit over it?[/quote]Yes there are plenty of immigrants in Lagos (and the whole of the country) but the figures are not alarming, certainly not reason to start introducing id cards (if it were for that sole purpose) we have a bigger problem of people moving out of the country than we do in so any sort of immigration (legal or otherwise) should be welcomed.

Nobody is throwing a fit over the term, it's becoming increasingly obvious that Fashola has a problem with non Lagosions, of course such movements will call for scrutiny.

The country is very pathetic (sorry to say) its becoming fast uninhabitable. This movement might prove positive if the haitians can consider migrating if the situation becomes overwhelming. being hit with all sorts of natural disasters can not be part of life

This article answered some questions, the Nigerian army are way too undisciplined for missions like these. They can't even handle their own people, people they understand. Talkless of foreign countries, they won't be made to do anything too sophisticated so we don't need to worry too much about their lives. *sigh of relief*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/05/nigerian-army-mali-mission-delayed

ondo state has oil?

the irony

eGuerrilla: Grace Mugabe clearly has a dissenting opinion on one of Nigeria's highest grossing exports

lol, its sad that this statement is soo true!

I watched the video of Ribadu confronting Orosanye (who also insulted the president in his feedback). I just don't understand why the President bothered to call Ribadu for an investigation if they weren't going to take him seriously. What is the point? Just continue what you are doing and stop riling us up with numerous reports. Dont waste the time or the taxpayers money.

People keep mentioning the states as an example, i'm not too sure if the States have these ID cards because they have independent jurisdictions, such policies won't function in a country that operates on a consolidated constitution. The states don't form a perfect model for the Nigerian Government, and in Nigeria we are still constrained by ethnic sentiments.

The main factors remain, we have various ethinicities and even though Lagos state (and the whole of Nigeria) has a 'population problem' we can't categorically state that these are caused by illegal immigrants from foreign lands. So the only other insinuation we can make from this move is that Lagoos State is trying to rid itself of migrants (from within Nigeria) that are yet to become established in Lagos. That is unfair, tribalist and elitist.

are there no women in the scheme? no female applicants? mshew, why am i not surprised, and they call this a forward movement

well done! This is exactly what this section needs!

naturalwaves: Do you mean the same nonsense that has won him the best of all the awards in Africa? If that is your definition of nonsense then other Artistes should start singing nonsense too.

yes that one and same nonsense. I don't care if he wins the nobel peace prize its still nonsense.

am i the only one that thinks this song is incredibly stupid? I think the more he tries to sing the worse his songs are, he should stick to frequently shouting nonsense between verses,

obadiah777: THIS MAN HAS BEEN ABROAD FOR TOO LONG. THATS EXACTLY HOW THE WHITE MAN SPEAKS AND IT IS BORNE OUT OF PRIDE. ' WE DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS' THATS THE MOST PRIDEFUL AND THE MOST ARROGANT CAUCASIAN TYPE STATEMENT I EVER HEARD. SCRIPTURE SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE AS CUNNING AS A SERPENT. WHATS THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH SATAN ?? YOU HAVE TO DIALOGUE WITH THEM AND TRY TO SEE WHERE THEIR MIND IS AT.

Look at it this way, there is a reason for these principles. It will encourage further mayhem when militants begin to think murdering people will serve for their own agendas. Especially political ones, which is what groups like BH were borne out of.
No country should negotiate with terrorists and murderers, perpetrators should be traced caught and dealt with. Not negotiated with under ridiculous terms. So what will the dialogue be?

"Ok so you have killed 3000 people, that is the benchmark for negotiation, tell us what you want and we will do it immediately?"

Cowardice if I've ever seen it.

Gbawe: True Lagosians (Igbo, Yoruba, Edo, Kanuri, Fulani et al) understand we are one in love for each other and our State. If we want to discuss an action of our governor, let us do it from the perspective of whether he is right or wrong. I can understand Fashola's frustration because of the dereliction of duty by other Governors that makes his job harder. I fully understand even that Lagos is not treated with honesty or given the support it deserves by our 419 FG.

Nonetheless, Nigerians are Nigerians. This will be an exercise in cynicism with lawless Nigerians trooping in from all States to register as 'lagosians'. It is a protectionist action and no similar example worldwide readily comes to mind yet I stand to be corrected on that assertion. I.e States within a nation issuing its own ID card. This is 100% segregation and should be discouraged because it sets a bad precedence . Perhaps we have split up as a nation and no one told me.

Fashola should focus his effort on strengthening strict law and order. That I support because it will drive out the layabouts. Fashola is not god and he cannot be right always. I think he is wrong here. Where do we draw the line as Nigerians? Every state has ID cards, then what next? LGA ID cards? Housing estate ID cards withing a Country? This is protectionism and clannishness gone mad. Let us be careful supporting Fashola blindly. The statement below should worry many of us who are ostensibly educated folks. In this day and age, is it not distasteful to even view Nigerians as "illegal citizens" within any geographic space in their own Country?

Even though I needed a dictionary to read your post, queue 'icendiary' I think it was excellent!

I agree with everything, and I think its rather frightening the LSG have moved from subtle measures of driving away 'poor non Lagosions' to outrightly to printing ID cards and calling 'them' illegal immigrants. I'm sure there are better ways to handle the overpopulation.

Any man is better than a Nigerian man

I am an avid supporter of Fashola but this move arches one (or both of my eyebrows) . The constant mention of 'illegal aliens into the state', a literal translation of the statement insinuates Lagos has an exclusive immigration problem . . . . . Lagos is overpopulated but I doubt it has an immigration problem- unless the problem arises from citizens from other parts of Nigeria migrating into the state. I wonder if that is what the Lagos state government is referring to?

There has often been whispers that Fashola posses an elitist tribalist sentiment, as much as I respect citizens of urban populations and the need they feel to protect their territory, these sentiments are almost never without facist intentions.

On a speculatory note I am yet to observe an immigration problem and I haven't heard of any alarming reports suggesting so, is Lagos state initiating what can be termed as 'ethnic cleansing'?

i actually will like my man to come home drunk once in a while, so i can take advantage of him.

hmmm. . . . are we talking for real or fantasy land? you are broke when you have less than a grand after tax and expenses, til your next pay day. i dont remember that ever happening. . . . so technically im always broke

but isnt he/she still developing? he/she should have waited a lil while when he/she dammit! what the hell do i even call him/her what,ever the f*ck thats supposed to be!