₦airaland Forum

Nothing new. It is his responsibility to be critical on behalf of his flock especially when things don't look too good. But he like everyone else should realise Nigeria is s very complex society. It is not a place where the normal laws of leadership hold. There are special interests everywhere. That is why given all the responses so far you cannot pin down the exact nature of the problem. Is it religious, how do you link that with corruption and special interests. Is it a geo-political, north-south thing, how do you link that with religious divide. How do you grow the economy run by special interests when you can't fix a budget because security and the same special interests are so fluid. It is easy to describe the elephant from one perspective only. Most ministers can do that because they chose their staff. Most governors can do that because most states comprise peoples of common interests. Most individuals can do that because they chose their friends, their work environment, their places of worship, etc, but when you have to accomodate a group of very divergent peoples the challenges grow exponentially.

A good example is Plateau, Yobe and other states. The development ultimately lies with the people. They have to tolerate one another or their economy will run aground on the back of insecurity. Lagos state, the development ultimately lies with the people, they have to sacrifice more or the economy will collapse on them, NNPC, PHCN, the workers have to keep their snouts clean or they will face the unwarranted reality of private competition.

The buck quite rightly stops with leadership but the environment a leader operates in dictates how far and how fast he can move. Nigeria is truly a bog, a nightmare of epic proportions. There are no easy and quick fixes. People say just carpet bomb Yobe state. Well OBJ did it in Odi and the problem remains unresolved to this day. It just escalated to the full Niger-Delta insurgency that remains open till today. Surely this country cannot afford to be fighting on two fronts at the same time. But this gives a hint that not everyone believes what you and I believe or feels a decent society is worth aspiring to. This is not America where there is a common ideology.

What is the Nigerian ideology that any leader can hook onto.

dmainboss:
Buhari did not do anything to anyone. Dont let anybody deceive you. A military government is very different from a civilian government. I remember when we demonstrated in 1994 during the June 12 saga. Nobody thought of Buhari the way some of you talk now. I am so surprised that since the CPC campaign, all these funny stories of Buhari are being peddled everywhere. Back in the nineties, Buhari was only remembered as the failed and weak Nigerian president whose deputy ruled for him. I dont know where all these Buhari praises are coming from. Probably from a generation that didn't know what happened back then.

Idiagbon was not only more respected in the army, he was more respected in the whole country. Idiagbon was seen and knowm as the man who called the shots. As proof that Buhari didnt have any serious respect or following in the army, the coup that overthrew him was the easiest since independence. No resistance of any kind. that only happens when you dont have a strong army following. Orkah coup would have easily succeeded if it was Buhari in power. It took the IBB boys to stop Orkah coup. I dont like IBB or Abacha but you have to say they had good following in the army. OBJ still has the biggest base in the army, believe it or not. like him or not. Buhari was a nobody in the army. He was non existent. He was never an active person in the military. Go check the records from 1966 coup till he became president and after he left.

When you overthrow a civilian government, you have to make it look justified. That was what precipitated all he tried to do then. The country was not in any crisis when he took over. There were economic issues alright but the naira was still 1:1 with the dollar. Nobody was suffering. we had free books in school and ate free meals sometimes. Things really became bad during the IBB years. IBB is the guy that really took us to the cleaners.

Abacha did nothing and spoiled little. Buhari is not a tough guy. He is just an opportunist who has seen that he can play on the northern sentiments that they want their own to rule. That is why he has been playing the sharia card since the OBJ regime. He was the first to come out and support Yerima on the sharialization of Zamfara state. He later went on to tell Moslems not to vote for Christians. Just playing on their sentiments. Nothing more. If he is really a strong leader, he would have a strong following. Atiku might be bad, but you have to give it to him that he is a strong leader and it shows in his followership base. If not that men like OBJ backed GEJ, it would have been very difficult for GEJ to beat Atiku in PDP.

Perhaps one of the deepest insights as to what has happened and what may be. Certainly from a matured and experienced mind. It appears you were actually there. Let's continue.

It can be and perhaps is desirable but the challenges are enormous. The key here is that green refining is horrendously expensive thus cannot be easily scaled. What you will likely have in this case are plants that offer partial fractionalisation to perhaps extract one or two products. This is very wasteful and in commercial terms not viable. It was one of the arguments on the 'Channels Forum' - why the products we import are very expensive. The truth is if you extract the vast spectrum of gases, liquids and sludges the cheap ones balance out the expensive ones and you can accommodate a fair price. Small scale plant technologies cannot do this. The second thing is regulation and monitoring. The more the plants, the diverse their products, the more difficult it is to supervise and once you have confidence issues the businesses collapses. Microfinance banks face this challenge. They are so many that supervising them is difficult. That's why they frequently run aground and most serious businessmen have lower confidence in them.

Olatad:
I need it for my poultry farm's expansion.I am currently banking with UBA and GT but their interest rates are 22% and 24% respectively.I am just looking for a better offer elswhere if there is any. Thanks

Forget bank loans. Be patient, prudent, hardworking and grow your business organically. Once you've bitten the loan bug you will never reach the efficiencies required to survive even the minutest economic shocks. If you are truly committed and your business is viable let it grow by itself. My two cents.

aze:
25years ,Sony

Hmm, were there DVD's twenty-five years ago. Think not except I'm missing something. Mine is still working 3 years out of the crate but the tv was hit by lightning last summer and is toast so the DVD goes as well.

Well, looking at the whole thing. I think he is a good man with good intentions. Its not an easy decision especially in a depressed economy but there's a lot of work to do. I do feel government should reform in equal measure as the public. Currently the pain is unequal. There's another misconception government has to address which he enumerated on. If he feels the private sector is a better vehicle for job creation then why not hand over the 1.3 trillion to the private sector. If it will end up as the usual allocation to states and local governments it will only result in a larger and more expensive bureaucracy. Most of it will be mismanaged and stolen. Government will be handling more cash than ever before, a larger percentage of our GDP will pass through their pockets and this will draw more attention to government, more patronage and more cartels. This is the structure that must be addressed while government withdraws its subsidies or very little impact will be felt.

If they are going to establish another bureaucracy like the PTF as was suggested (a seven man committee of so-called eminent Nigerians) all the savings will probably be lost. The companies that will benefit are the same contract cabals and the bulk of the funds will end up in Stuttgart with only temporary contract jobs created. But if well thought out processes are established it can be sustainable and beneficial. An example is supporting small scale industry, agriculture, mining, manufacturing. But if it ends up in contracting. Too bad.

Kobojunkie:
WOW.  . . .  I have had to endure more than an hour of this and still no positives on whatever he is offering.https://images-2.findicons.com/files/icons/1039/manto/128/cry.png

Tax and spend that's all with government trying hard to avoid reforms. We are missing a big opportunity to restructure.

Kobojunkie:
WOW.  . . .  I have had to endure more than an hour of this and still no positives on whatever he is offering.https://images-2.findicons.com/files/icons/1039/manto/128/cry.png

Tax and spend that's all with government trying hard to avoid reforms. We are missing a big opportunity to restructure.

He should forget about it. If the PIB is to enlarge government beauracracy through the NNPC, then not one cent of foreign investment will flow there. No one wants a boat ride with government. Government should get out of petroleum business.

Nwosu hit the nail squarely. The government has to weaken NNPC for investments and deregulation to work properly.

[quote author=okada_man link=topic=830657.msg9823740#msg9823740 date=1324655750]Abeg, who get application form for joining The Cabal?

I wan join.[/quote]Okada men are already a cabal. Hit one of them and see pepper. Market women do price control on okra and vegetables. Barbers and hairdressers have meetings where they set prices with stiff sanctions for defaulters. All sorts of anti-trust activities go on daily. When government does it then its really bad. You wonder why when lanlord's association meets they never invite tennants association to meet and contribute. Why.

Any commercial activity not subject to free market force in deed is fertile ground for manipulation and control to the disadvantage of the general populace.

Well let me try.

A cabal is an association of controlling influence. Thus a petroleum cabal comprises a group of means controlling the trade in pet. products and thus the availability and perhaps price regimes.

From this definition it becomes easy to see that Nigeria is a nation of cabals. Electricity cabals at work - no power, political cabals - no social justice, engineering cabals - poor infrastructure, telecommunications cabals - dropped calls, restricted bandwidth, cement cabals - expensive housing, pharma cabals - death by drugs, security cabals - wanton smuggling, robbery, no case ever solved, educational cabals - strike-pay rise-strike-payrise-strike-payrise-strike-payrise and on and on, anti-subsidy cabals - status quo continues. Nairaland cabals - everybody else is wrong.

Nigeria is one huge lawless state. Almost everyone belongs or benefits from one. Real black economy.

Very easy. Check the responses on Nairaland viz registration and postings. You'd probably hit a similar stat.

The text clearly says 'destroyed'. I can't see 'burning' anywhere so where is all the petrol, pollution talk coming from. Any I wonder why anything government does needs to have a price tag waved in our faces. We have a money complex in this country. Pity.

I really don't pity the government here and I said it from time. The government should have privatised the petroleum industry top to bottom just as it did with telecoms. Deregulation is just not the answer. No one can trust government with their money. They should have just broken NNPC to bit parts and sold the lot to SPDC or whosoever is interested while Oniwon is transformed to a regulatory agent and Madam attends meetings in Geneva.

If government wants the people to pay the full price they should have full control and receive full benefits but I think Nigerians should consider that petroleum resources are not free. They are finite and irreplaceable. They cost money to explore, process and sell. They have an even larger cost to the environment which we all claim to respect and if we can pay for the food we eat coming from renewable resources how much more non-renewable ones.

I think this is where we get it wrong. This is not a party thing. It is a Nigerian thing. It is our culture. I say it again there is no governor that looks any different from the other when it comes to profligacy whether PDP, ACN, CPC, ANPP or APGA. They all drive convoys of expensive SUV's, they all have a hoard of expensive advisers and assistants. They all have massive clandestine security votes. Their commissioners of finance all attend the same quarterly allocation meetings so they know what each other does. I'm sure if you work out their recurrent expenses it will probably proportion out exactly. All governors borrow massively and all raise revenue by taxes, tolls, subsidy removals, etc where they can to fuel their in satiable desires.

That's why I don't corner myself into individuals or parties because they all sing from the same hymn sheet. The best you will get is grey still a shade of black.

Is Tinubu not still riding his armoured G500 or has it been upgraded. Was it not Idiagbon that rode in the first mercedes benz limousine I had seen in my life when as a kid I waited endlessly outside the gate to tell my angry dad when the road open landrover will pass. Was it not IBB's S500 cracking the pavement when he came to the company to wish his friends goodbye as he stepped down.

Government in Nigeria is a continum. What GEJ has done is alarming and condemnable when you seek sacrifices but him, his vice, senators, legislators, governors and chairmen all do it in the proportions they have available. They are all profligate. Name them. Now choose who to vote for.

kkkossy:
I heard suarez will play 2day's match even after being banned for 8 games

It was a suspended ban. He was given a window of appeal after which it will come into effect. But from the body language and preceding statements I think he will accept it. Liverpool is however hollering aimed at damage limitation but they should be careful. The EPL is an international event and clubs like Liverpool derive more and more revenue from foreign markets in Asia, Arabia and even Africa. I mean just this week the Arsenal GM on tour to Nigeria did admit their fan base in Nigeria was probably larger than that in the UK. Not as wealthy but none the less an important potential that must not be vexed. The days of football being a white sport are long gone. The best footballer isn't white and the highest paid is west african.

The JT case is slightly different since Anton went to the police, the police had gone to the Crown prosecutors and they have hauled the case before the courts. So today I think the judge has placed a gag order before all parties concerned. It was a criminal case not just and an FA one as in the case of Swearez (pardon the pun). That's why we hear 'presumed innocent until proven guilty' and that's why he was allowed to continue playing for England.

Methinks if he's exonerated by the courts the FA might just slap his wrists even though his offence carries much more influence than the Uruguayan's.

Clearly the decisions of her majesty's courts superceed those of the FA on such matters. I'm sure if it was in Nigeria someone will be invoking FIFA to act to preserve so called independence of football from administrative influences.

Setup, conspiracy, whatever name the ostrich is called these days will do little to dispel the fact that the next Arik flight anywhere to Europe will be thoroughly searched with the attendant delays, lots of inconvenience, frustration, embarrasment to both crew and passengers. Loss of customers can result. This kind of thing just doesn't help.

I just hope this country will not sink under a mountain of vice. This is the effect of corruption on the mind. I say it ALWAYS ERODES RATIONAL THINKING. It says you can milk a pressure fuel pipeline with a blow torch. It says you can auction power equipment when the nation lies in darkness while your employer takes the heat for it. It says as in this case you can courier drugs to the very location the setting of which your employer is in the vortex of an international dogfight. That is the dulling effect.

Its so sad. In the midst of so much joblessness in the land, you have a good, paying job that involves international travel with all the perks. The opportunity of meeting great people, making good contacts, trading practically duty free, free meals, good lodgings, respect, and much more. But no, greed will not permit a great life. She had to have more, must be an instant millionaire by Christmas. Well, whether mule, manager, master or mafiosi her career is probably over never to be the woman she desperately tried or envied to be.

I tell you its not only government people driving the image of this country onto the rocks.

Kobojunkie:
Do we call this useless outrage? When it was announced that ~ 500 million was to be spent by the same administration in 2010 we all reacted in the same way. Come 2011, we all reacted in similar manner as well but still went out in droves to vote it back in. So, why the reaction this time around really? Don't we get tired of pretending each time that we have just been slapped for the very first time by the same group?  

My dear it is because there are no alternatives. Government and governance has always been templated to the most extremely expensive models found anywhere in the world and then turbo charged. Recurrent expenditure in Nigeria is a disaster in Nigeria. It bears no semblance to the state of finances thoughtless of income. They borrow to host dignitaries and issue bonds for salaries. Its pitiful. Just look at states. Even those operating near comatose economies depending on allocations alone still have a retinue of advisers, assistants, convoys of armored jeeps and retinue of body guards. Is there a governors convoy on the highway today without an ambulance in tow, none. Once they see another state doing it they copy immediately. Flagrance is copied top to bottom. No one looks at his size. I was on my way to Portharcourt by road the day dear Comrade laid his lovely wife to bed at his country home right on the highway. The place looked like an automart for black SUV's. I'm sure there was up to a billion naira worth of vehicles parked there. All proudly flying their various party flags like some carnival. Its our nature, our culture. They simply believe its their opportunity, their time and no one can deny them. Since the day Murtala was gunned down in Lagos government has gone haywire.

I do hope one day the president, some state governor, a certain local government official will act normally and cease this culture of profligacy. It has to start from the top down, across the bureaucracy of federating units, spread through the three arms of government. Jonathan will get his fuel subsidy removal easy if he spent more time on the streets. Fasola will get his tolls, fees and levies easier if he aligned himself properly with the people. It is called sharing in their sufferings. Nigerians are very accommodating and sacrificial people. But what they don't want to see is their so-called leaders literally eating their all the food at their expense. If a billion naira is partly spent on foreign guests. Know this. They won't complain. But have their fill move to the streets with their cameras and laugh at sad images back home. What folly - this recurrent expenditure thing.

When you consider that the Feds have been constructing the second Niger bridge on paper for eons you will appreciate this feat. Others may blow his trumpet but the man sure knows his onions when it comes to critical insfrastructure. Just look at the state of our man bridges at Jebba, Lokoja and Makurdi. Shameful.

dayokanu:
Ethnic Spread would not be a valid criteria else you tell us that Shanghai isnt a City?

It isnt a crime for a City to be homogeneous

Shanghai is cosmopolitan. Anyone can live there without reservations.

Abagworo:
While the definition of a city is such a complex issue, individuals seem to have their own understanding of what a city should look like. Some places considered as cities could have less population than others considered towns. Based on my own understanding, Nigeria seems to be developing into a three city State viz Lagos, Port Harcourt and Abuja.

There are dozens of urban centers with population ranging from 100,000 to over 3million. Kano, "Kaduna" and Ibadan have over 2million people. Benin,Aba,Onitsha, Ogbomosho,Zaria,Jos and Maiduguri all have in excess of 1million people. In all Nigeria has about 13 urban centres with population of more than 1million. I put Kaduna on quote because it seems to be Nigeria's 4th city alongside Calabar and Enugu but they lack that city feel even though they come directly behind Lagos, Abuja and PH.

Yes I think so, the informal definition can be quite fluid based not on one but a clutch of variables. I think everyone agrees a large population is in.

Let us debate one of several other criteria I think suffices. Can we consider ethnic spread in awarding city status thus typically., London, Lagos, Abuja, Newyork, Portharcourt are prime candidates while Kano, Ibadan and Onitsha are less so because though they have large populations, are less cosmopolitan thus have less potential for future growth because quite frankly people will only gravitate to places they feel comfortable working and living. I can't see large hordes of Igbo's rushing to Ibadan or Yoruba's to Kano or Hausas to Onitsha.

Can we debate this.

I thought city status was a demographic rather than political thing and as such large population centres such you can have mexico city which is an urban sprawl but perhaps Brazilia the national capital will not.

Nigeria is peculiar in the sense government has (through the colonisation period) and still controls a huge chunk of our GDP thus its political outposts, national, state and local government gravitate huge popultion numbers like the planets round the sun.

A country with large apolitical demographics is the US. There you had settlers establishing outposts, enterprises and activities long before governments were formed. LasVegas readily comes to mind and infact the same can be said of most of the western seaboard.

Closer to home Onitsha is a good example of an apolitical city and an intriguing case study to test the government/private sector influences on demographics. Just across the river you have Asaba a political creation. It will be interesting to see who will win the tug of war to pull the massive population and establish or confirm city status. I doubt if both can simultaneously attain city status due to their proximity but it is an interesting battle and which I hope Onitsha wins.

daphil:
The nigerian nation suffers violence and only the violents can take it by force. Dialogue works everywhere except in nigeria. If Lekki residents cannot handle this, let  them seeek the service of boko haram.

But aren't there representatives of this area in the House of Assembly. What are they doing about it and if they aren't then it goes a long way to support certain insinuations that ACN is not democratic. As for the thugs or NURTW, BBC has aired their influence and power in a programme earlier this year. They are the enforcers that hunt for the votes and keep the populace in check. We have seen them practically in operation today. I tell you this corruption thing is universal and doesn't carry the flag of any political party.

I'm totally in favour of PPP and believe we the public should pay for good infrastructure. I'm sure you all watched a CNN finance program yesterday of productivity data collected in Germany via GPS mounted on delivery trucks which incidentally is used to collect tolls on public roads. It is not strange to collect tolls but like the fuel subsidy thing it has to be fair and clear. This is the way democracies work. Unfortunately the ACN is not one in practice.

I hope in future we will put our hero worship in proper perspective and consider that all men can fail. I never do that.

I don't know why we don't just get it. Government has given up on refining. It has acknowledged it can't do it and I appreciate the honesty. Look through the records. at the wanton mismanagement of maintenance since they were built in the seventies and eighties. They cannot do it, why force them. Why not leave the creation and running of industries in the hand of those with vested interest and proven competencies. With the exception of vandalism related stoppages SPDC churns out crude day and night like clockwork. You can imagine if NAPIMS was exploiting all our oil, we will be in a mess. GSM tarriffs are more expensive than NITEL was but who can honestly wish to return to those days. Deregulation is needed. Niger republic that buys bootleg kero is poorer than Nigeria and I can't think of any social umbrella they have. Let's reconsider and support deregulation.

We can demand anti-corruption, border control and job creation but what we should not do is to throw our money away and mortgage our lives and our valuable natural resources.

What I think government should do is to stagger the fee structure of the present set with new students paying 100% reducing to zero for final year students who can perform poorly due to the trauma and have the most to lose if forced out at this late stage. They can then carry on their commerce for subsequent intakes. I think next Jamb will be very interesting and I'm keen to see the percentage drop in applications to LASU due to commercialisation or do we call it deregulation.

Good one for gunners at least AC is not a red herring. Expect ol Jack to be back by then to double RVP's productivity.

[quote author=na2day! link=topic=826367.msg9776226#msg9776226 date=1324023485]Since the Lagos state government has been taking over the properties on which any building collapses!
Who is going to take over this one?
Federal government?[/quote]Hmm, bush meat dey pursue hunter. Should see a bigger hammer simply because tax payers money has gone down with the ship. Another revelation is the fractition going on between departments. If the environment guys cannot obey the planning guys how do they expect the onlooking public to respond. Tough questions ey Fash.

hercules07:
@Beaf

If Buhari had been corrupt or had aided Abacha in stealing funds, do you not think that OBJ would have dealt with him, I hope you are aware that the PTF was probed and Buhari was never found guilty. Abacha did not need Buhari to steal money, he had been stealing money since the days of IBB, the PTF was a trust fund that was set up to make use of money realised from the increase in pump prices, it had no control over refineries.

I'm sure those who were fortunate to deal with the PTF organisation and Afri-Projects in particular will have something to say about this. But believe me nothing is forgotten in Nigeria. Leadership among the big five (now four) and its complexities has prevented a lot of revelations. I think Nigeria should move on. We have the basic frame of a democracy. What we should be doing is discovering new ways and thinking together with a new movement that raises a generation of real patriots. But first sort out the political map first.

Beaf:
Maybe we need a biometric exercise in each Nigerian household. Nigerians are too corrupt, it is not just the police.

Exactly. It is a scheme, a system involving many. Now I'm sure the thinking here will be that probably five to ten people are involved in this. Dig deeper and you may probably uncover five hundred to a thousand and when you look across the civil service in all cases of institutionalised graft you will be talking of proportions tens to hundreds of thousands. Let's not even talk of the private sector. Corruption is as pervasive as a to become sub-cultural.

Now will you shut down the police because of N 1 billion and to what oath do we swear in new recruits. The answer is simple. Government may save a billion here and there from time to time but until collectively as a society we decide to let go, nothing will ultimately change. Good job Madam Iweala but

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=825911.msg9775191#msg9775191 date=1323997796]Kudos.

We need more though, especially in other parts of the southwest.

Nigeria should actually have passed this level long ago, because we had leventis and kingsway stores since the 60s or so.

See how instability drags a country down.[/quote]And this instability is exactly what is being redressed here. We have been in a viscious cycle of disinvestment started by Murtala's and OBJ's nationalisation policies of the 70's and accelerated by misrule and corruption thereafter.

Now we have seen that no country prospers in isolation Shoprite is like begging the abused, battered breadwinning wife back home. That is the source of this argument. Lagos government and Nigerians must swallow their pride and not just accomodate but celebrate any investment that will bring value to Nigerians - paye and levies to state, corporate x to the Feds.

Opening another branch is a better barometer of future economic prospects than even the views on Nairaland and just how do we expect LASG to create jobs, a bigger beauracracy, bigger LASTMA, KAI?, I think not. What the Gov is doing also by attending is simply giving the occasion much more publicity than even CNN can air - that the state is open for business. What we can do as a people instead of whinning is to shop there to sustain the jobs or seek business opportunities with them to play our part.