₦airaland Forum

peppy luv: But you stil can't compare a priest and a pastor amassing wealth cuz while the priest has no family to take care of and when he dies,whatever he owns belongs to the church but ur pastors have family responsibilities and other matterial needs to take care of!

Mind you op the parish priest is not the only signatory to the church account.the church councl excos are part of it.
As for tithe,its done in the catholic church but its never pronounced cuz the envelops and boxes are kept at the entrance of the church and maybe ur parishioners were not paying at all for the priest to start saying it.
As for the begging of foodstuff,well I don't know,depends on ur parish cuz in mine church of assumption asokoro, I hv never heard of money for feeding of the priest cuz parishioners give freely so may be yours is a poor parish or you parishioners are stingy and need to be begged to feed ur priest you know fully well isn't working.
For eg I served in a very remote village in nasarawa,the people were very poor farmers,a sunday's offering can be 500naira or less thou there was no priest but sometyms the priest who stays in the nxt local govt(which is 2hrs drive away)might come.
We,corpers had to write and beg for a priest so the missionary seminary had to start sending us seminarians, u won't believe these missionaries sleep in the church store! And there was no toilet!Imagine how embarasing it was for them going to the church chairman's house or corpers lodge to freshen up! I went back to my parish in abj,met some people and was able to erect a toilet in eweeks cuz every sunday I had to keep begging the parishioners to donate but they wudnt even corpers were nt helping matters. Even to donate and help feed these missionaries was a problem.So its such people that will go out and say the church begs too much!

Sister, the question I asked precipitated other points, but the question is simple.
Planting, harvest, feeding of the priest and tithing, are these traditions that is found everywhere or is it only flourishing in Nigeria?
Is it done like that in Rome?

Amb Fitsaint: Do u know dat u ve just impertinently quoted a lecturer? As in, a whole lecturer!

R

And so effing what?

chukwudi44: Bros once again once he did not say it is compulsory he did not run foul of the church doctrine.That's is the official position of the catholic church.Tithe if you want but is not compulsory.The priest always prays for those who make donations in church tithe or no tithe.

Bros listen, today, our priest said, "IF WE DON'T PAY TITHE, WE'RE ROBBING GOD BECAUSE IT IS NOT OUR OWN"
That to me is a high case of persuasion, he was only shot of saying defaulters will go to hell, but the way he put it, there is some compulsion in it.

[quote author=Demain_man]Yes, Nigeria Catholic churches are turning Pentecostal. Maybe it is this 'If you can beat them join them thingy'
Where i live there is nothing like tithe in the catholic church.[/quote]That's it bro! Some places are just starting it, some other places have never heard of it, some other places have started preaching against people forfeiting it (like my parish), yet it is not a Catholic tradition.

chukwudi44: @0P

Asking for tithes,bazaar or whatsorever here is not the big deal but did he say it was compulsory or that God will curse those who don't tithe or give during bazaar?

The big deal is, is these how it is done in the vatican and worldwide?
Its a big deal to me if our local church start teaching alien practices and steering a different course. I think it is a big deal.

okpurukata: Thanks ops for bringing this up. Firstly, the Sunday generall offertory does not belong to the priest. 70% or thereabouts goes to the diosces depending on each diosces. The balance goes to the church account.

Well, I won't say I am sure about this for a fact, back when I was an altar buy, after serving mass in an out station, we (the altar boys) simply take the whole offertory box to the priest's car, no 30% or 70% calculation is done, I don't see the local church council coming for 30%, we simply take our thanksgiving and offertory to the car and off we go to our parish with the priest.
As I said, I don't know for a fact if it is shared (diocese and PPC). Is it? Are you sure?

The priest spends these funds with the approval of the parish pastoral council. At least you know what PPC means.
The week day mass collections goes to the priest. Majorly, second collections, effort Sundays, and harvest and thanks giving days are when the parish actually builds up funds for itself.

Thanks giving belongs to the priest, that one I know for sure. Harvest is 2/3 for parish, 1/3 for the priest, in my parish, that's how it was done when I was an altar boy. Planting, I never heard of Planting before until 2005. Is that how it is done worldwide? Do they do planting in Rome?

Tithing, started in my parish last year. I was meant to understand that some Catholics were being approached by these pastors to pay monthly tithe to their Pentecostal churches. These parishionsers are the ones that opted to pay their tithe in the church, rather than give to a business pastor. Hence it is purely not compulsory in my parish.

Last year, was it sanctioned by the pope or the church? Ok, so if a witchdoctor say parishioners should bring 10 white cocks every week and 2 bottles of schnapp, will the parish tell the parishioners to start bringing it to church? I thought we are suppose to say the truth at all times? If the universal church did not tell us to tithe, our local parishes in Nigeria have to right to say so.
If someone ask me what "catholic" mean, I'll say universal, if they ask "is it universal?" I'll say yes. But how true will my last answer be if they don't tithe in Canada, they don't tithe in Mexico, they don't tithe in Brazil, they don't tithe in Rome, Jerusalem, Islamabad, Seoul, Manila; they don't tithe in all of these places but they do so in Nigeria. I think it is wrong and we should tell our priests immediately.
Why must we do what the pentecostals do? The church stands is that we should GIVE CHEERFULLY AND GENEROUSLY. The early church in acts did not tithe, they gave generously. The parable of the woman and the pharisee, the woman did not tithe, she gave generously. She gave her last dime (100%), she didn't give 10%, she gave generously. That's what our Church preach, our local church should not water the universal teaching, its WRONG.

The catholic doctrines maintains that we give heartily, but also from our heart and without compulsion. There is no thunder and brimstone attached to your not giving the tithe. But truth remains that most people even give more than 10% monthly by the time you give all the offerings required. And God will continue to bless the cheerful giver. Hope this helps.

My question was:
Do they tithe in Rome?
Do they do planting in Rome?
Do they do Harvest and Bazaar in Rome?
Do they ask parishioners to do another offering after all the usual one called "feeding of the Reverend Father?"
These are my questions.

chukwudi44: @0P

Asking for tithes,bazaar or whatsorever here is not the big deal but did he say it was compulsory or that God will curse those who don't tithe or give during bazaar?

Well, he never said it was compulsory, but he blessed those who paid with a prayer full of rhapsody, they gathered round the altar where he rained down blessings on them for over 5minutes. He doesn't do this during general offering or when one gives to St. Vincent the Paul. That's something if you ask me. Today, the priest quoted Malachi 3:8 and even went as far to say that one sunday can no longer be tithe sunday, he said people should prepare for tithe next week (those of us who didn't bring in tithe today).
Besides, the question is, are this practice done in the Vatican? If not, then this is an alien doctrine springing up from Nigeria.

Liskate: No, the catholic is not turning pentecostal by asking for tithe. Parishes in abeokuta here ask their parishoners to pay tithe though not compulsory. I think because it's nt compulsory is why most parishes don't ask. It is not a new thing.

Well, don't you think its a new thing happening probably only in Nigeria when churches collect tithes, hold harvest and still do plantings? The church is universal and I think these practices are local and only seen in Nigeria.

R

bizmahn: Most catholics here have bashed pentecostals over this "pastor enrichment" thing while holding the catholic church innocent of such.Now we know better.Thanks for your sincerity.
.
But note that its not wrong to give to assist pastors or priests who are sincerely labouring over the flock with much sacrifice.Some gave up lucrative jobs & businesses & great future careers to answer the call.
.
Rather its wrong when they begin to amass wealth they don't need at the expense of the poor followers.

No it is not wrong, (st paul ordains that those who preach the gosple should live by the gospel).
My problem is the duplicity in a single thing, cheerful giving have been replicated to different status.
Helping the poor offering is suppose to be the 2nd offering.
If there is any emergency in the church, another offering is ok.
Catholics are admonished to give generously, from what I quoted in my write-up above, tithing is not a catholic principle. Tithing, Harvest and Planting to me are all tithing, Catholics come online to bash other churches on this and while in our parish, we see it and do nothing.
The priests are housed, given cars, given gifts aplenty during harvest and collect offertory every mass (sometimes mass is 3 times evenings every week, 7 times every morning and twice on sundays. The offertory in all these belongs to the priest)
That to me is enough.
When they don't give helping hand to the poor in the church, come to church and ask for special feeding offering, do planting, harvest and bazaar and lastly collect tithe, they hence have no moral capital to chastise the pentecostals.

nwaobitex:

Like seriously o

I have been going to the Catholic church for a better part of my life, so you can imagine how dazed I was when I saw a Parish Priest in our church on campus (NFCS) asking for tithe. All my life, never have I heard that from a priest. I glossed over it imagining it to be one of the many zeit geist people on campus do to fill among, deep in my heart, I knew something was wrong somewhere. University and new pattern I guess! What has however left me appalled is that when I came back home and attended mass, our new parish priest asked for tithes. I asked my siblings and they said he has been doing so since he was posted there some months back.
My question is to those enlightened folks out there, is it right for catholic priest to demand tithes? Do they tight in the vatican? This quote below proves otherwise.

1351 From the very beginning Christians have
brought, along with the bread and wine for the
Eucharist, gifts to share with those in need.
This custom of the collection, ever appropriate,
is inspired by the example of Christ who
became poor to make us rich: Those who are
well off, and who are also willing, give as
each chooses. What is gathered is given to
him who presides to assist orphans and
widows, those whom illness or any other cause
has deprived of resources, prisoners,
immigrants and, in a word, all who are in need.
Of course, this doesn't mean they don't give. And
Catholics are obligated to give, according to
ability. This isn't just semantics, there's a
difference between the two.
A tithe in this context isn't just an offering, it's a
specific percentage of a person's salary that the
person must give to their church, usually under
pain of sin. This was required by the Old Law, but
is no longer required. Charity (a special formal
word that means love) obliges us to give, though.
How the offering is gathered might depend on the
particular parish, but it's roughly what you'd
expect.
Sometimes, some of us even sing a song about
this issue. Some of the lyrics go:
♫ O, come and eat without money. Come to
drink without price.
My feast of gladness will feed your spirit with
faith and fullness of life.
By "feast" we mean the Most Holy Eucharist, the
Most Sacred Blood, God literally present before us,
just as He was Himself present before St Thomas
the doubter.
We sing that song being mindful of Isaiah 55:
1 All you who are thirsty,
come to the water!
You who have no money,
come, buy grain and eat;
Come, buy grain without money,
wine and milk without cost!
2 Why spend your money for what is not
bread;
your wages for what does not satisfy?
Only listen to me, and you shall eat well,
you shall delight in rich fare.
However, again from the Catechism:
2043 [...] The faithful also have the duty
of providing for the material needs of the
Church, each according to his own
abilities.
On the obligation to give, 2 Corinthians 9:
6 Consider this: whoever sows sparingly will
also reap sparingly, and whoever sows
bountifully will also reap bountifully.b 7 Each
must do as already determined, without
sadness or compulsion, for God loves a
cheerful giver.
Addressing the Old Law, Romans 13:
8 Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one
another;
for the one who loves another has fulfilled the
law.
A person who has love for her Church will give an
appropriate offering. In the same way that St John
took care of Holy Mary, so too do
we presently seek to take care of the Christ's
Bride until she is reunited with Him at the end of
time. In turn, she takes care of those who are in
need (the Catholic Church is, among other things,
a really, really big decentralized charity).

Now that we are at it, I know the catholic church to be one of the biggest (if not the biggest) charity givers in the world, why is the church in Nigeria tilted more on collecting like Oliver Twist rather than give?

For instance, we do Harvest and Bazaar, is this practice done in the vatican? I searched for "harvest and bazaar catholic" via google and most of the results that came out are for Nigerian churches.
Do they do harvest and bazaar in the vatican?
Do they do planting? Because our church does planting - where individual come with cash accompanied by 1/2 of the whole congregation in church, all of them dropping cash.
Is tithing, harvest and planting not the same thing?
What about second offerings. We do second offering almost every other Sundays. Then when its month end, the parishioners are divided into 5 zones where each zones bring cash and foodstuffs, all these they call "FEEDING OF THE REVEREND FATHER." You need to see the foodstuffs on display, and all the troopers to the altar go to the altar with cash. Then when a seminarian comes to visit, the priest does not take from some of those foodstuffs which he knows he can't finish to see the seminarian off, we'll have to do a second offering or third one for the visitor?
My question is, the first offering, is it not for the priest? Why is he now being fed again? Why is he demanding for tithes? Why can't he be generous and spare us 2nd offering by helping the student seminarian? What is planting?
Then the most important offering, called "helping the poor" by St. Vincent de Paul. Why is it made to be the last offering, is it not the essence of Christianity? Helping the people should be the 1st ot 2nd offering if you ask me.
I think the catholic church in Nigeria is drifting to the pentecostal line yet they always have remonstration at Pentecostals for doing this as if we don't do it.

IYA NGBALI: thank God that you agreed with me that unibuja is a creche for adults like you

[b] a creche eh? How so? What makes it a creche? Is it the fact that feeding bottles are used to nurse her students? Was it because you were denied admission? Is it because they have the guts to call ASUU's bluff? Why are crying more than the bereaved? You sound unschooled in many ways, could that be that you were schooled there? Did you study hair dressing in Uniabuja? From the way you spelt Uniabuja as Unibuja, I have the feeling you have had a rendezvous once in the school, sorry if you weren't admitted? Being an hairdresser isn't such a bad thing after all, at least you can browse with the paltry MB mobile networks gives you once in a while. Its amazing how you've turned your life around, from being denied admission to a big
B R E A S T E D hairdresser who actually can browse. If you are so sure the school is a creche and all her students are babes who still suckle from feeders, why not call on their attention for a duel, there are tons of them here on this thread. Maybe after you have been trounced and made to look like the big breasted fool that you are, you'll calm down and go about your daily routine of soap, shampoo, combing and hair drying.
I'm allergic to schmurks like you.

Momoh Lawal: When u marry a Muslim as a wife, my fear for u is that your generation will take to your wife religion as a Muslim. What is then your contribution to christiandoom. Pls try to convert your would be wife to your faith and save your self and generation the embarrassment that would follow after u are no more.

It is not my duty to populate Christiandom. I said I won't force her or even cajole her to convert, if she feel like doing no, the merrier but I, I won't force her. Secondly, my kids would be raised as Christians pending any unforeseen circumstance, if they grow up and ever decide to be Muslims, I won't raise an eyebrow. If for instance my daughter after been raised Christian says she wanna marry a Muslim, I wouldn't mind, after all their mum is a Muslim and I married her. You see, unlike you my friend, I don't peer at life through a religious monocle.
Besides, nobody is talking about marriage now, I said love conquers all, we both gaze at the future with gathered optimism, when I look at her....

TerpeOjorobaby: guy I hope u knw d muslims marry more than one wife?by d time he brgs in another dat luv go start to fade.so pls spk for urslf

Lol
I am the guy doing the marrying and not the other way round.

Listed in descending order.

ASUU.
Judiciary.
Legislatives
PHCN
Executives.
Police force
NNPC

adino: FAGgay and his nASUU lecturers will see hell, by the way which school is that FAGgay guy lecturing self, I pity that school.

BUK.
The dude is suppose to be selling cows somewhere in Jalingo, unfortunately, he is rearing fellow cows in a ranch called ASUU.

IYA NGBALI: don't get worked up for being told the truth,unibuja is a glorified secondary school. What do you people have and where are your half baked products?

Hairdresser, at least they don't have you. You are so engrossed in the price of shampoo and how to comb your customers nice that you can't even dream big, the only thing big about you that I see here are your BIG b r e a s t s., quit trolling on good threads when your customers aint coming, at least, make sure your gen is working, by the way how is business today?

IYA NGBALI: keep dreaming,you would be shocked down to your system when you go back to school

Who is this one again?
Go back to your salon, your customers are waiting, quit doing things you're not good at, I'm sure you have some hairs to wash.
Oya! Gerrrrrroutta here!!!

Ochhie: @Richiez, I never knew u were a student of unabj. Pls this question goes directly to u and others who are students of uniabj. Will uniabj admit direct entry students who chose them as second choice or do they admit second choice direct entry candidates??

Push your question to the link below, I'm sure they'll help you better.

Trust me it will,
My friends are resuming tomorrow. Some of your colleagues will be made scapegoats come Dec 04.

Taylor184: As if Unigwagz is a good skul
Fu.cked up school.....Bleep Adelabu

Go to the gallows, hang your head in shame and die. Thank you, the world could do with one less fool moving about.

This is a fabulous move. Chup or whatever China-man name that ASUU branch chairman has, resume work or be sacked, that's how simple it is. Nobody is quarreling, Uniabuja ASUU was factionalized way before this national strike, mark my words, 1/3 of the lecturers in the pro-vc faction will resume, some percentage from the FAGgay ASUU faction who are lilly livered will resume too. Leaving the extremist Abokis and communist oriented striking lecturers in a minor subset, this subset will be made a scapegoat so that all renegade lecturers now under the aegis of nPDP nASUU will learn what they teach but don't know.
ThankGod GEJ has quit dangling the carrots to them, they are animals, herbivorous ones at that, what they need is the stick approach, FAGgay and other like-minded extremist incline lecturers need the stick approach, that's the only language their lot will understands.

sakaguchi: Wow!
if that's what Allah said, then God will punish Allah one of this days.

But since they say God and Allah are same, I doubt he ever said so, if he so much hates unbelievers, he would easily annihilate them from the earth.

toaspromo: IT IS UNISLAMIC EVEN THE QURAN STIPULATE THAT MUSLIM SHOULD MARRY MUSLIMA NON MUSLIM SHOULD MARRY NON MUSLIMS ADULTERER SHOULD MARRY ADULTERESS AND SO ON
ANY MUSLIMA WHO MARRIES A NON MUSLIM IS ABSOLUTELY OUT OF ISLAM EVEN IF SHE OBSERVE ISLAMIC CONDUCTS OR PRAY SOLAT SHE MAY NOT BE ACCEPTED BY ALLAH SO IT IS NOT ADVISABLE TO ATTEND THE WEDDING CEREMONY AS A MUSLIM COS ALLAH WOULD HATE THOSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO D SUCCESS OF SUCH WEDDING
WALLAHU AALAM

Wow!
if that's what Allah said, then God will punish Allah one of this days.

.

Imauri! Imauri!! Imauri!!!

I really don't like insulting old men, I would have told you to mind your age and quit quoting me but then again, you have a dysfunctional mind# you are crazy n I g g a r, you should be in some mental asylum swallowing mood molding and mind altering blue pills. But here you are, in the streets of only God-knows-where typing what only mad men can type- crazy sh:ts.
Let me re-iterate the golden advice I gave you earlier, "TAKE YOUR HERBS, HAVE A NAP, GET OFF THE STREETS, CHECK INTO A MADHOUSE and SEE A MAD DOCTOR."
I hate it when old folks go bananas and loose their minds but the poo you have been posting since shows how advance your brain degeneration have reached.

Old man. You need your herbs, quit quoting me because I won't return that sane favor to a lunatic. Since you can't mind your age, please save yourself the public embarrassment by seeking for help, I'm sure there a tons of psychiatrists where you live.

This post is dedicated to all the lunatics, never-do-wells, extremists, ASUU lazy a s s molecturers , and all the anti-Gej e-fighters who always wear perennial frown. I am not a GEJ fanatic, I don't like PDP, I don't like APC either and I don't like ASUU. All I like is my babe, Chelsea, good football by barca, arsenal, man u etc. I really don't like the things you hate and I don't hate the things you like, but one thing is certain.
This decision from GEJ is a popular decision, go back to the beginning of the thread and do some counting. Lol.

toyinolamide: Jst wanna wish myself a hapi bthday. Make una no vex Oº°˚˚˚°º‎​ºoOO♓ I neva sabi create topic.onelove

Happy birthday oo jaare!
Be careful oo! Before perverts like Demdem and Imauri show their peni5 face on the thread.

Long life and prosperity!!!

Demdem: Naah, won't do that. Mine is to say it as it is.

You sound like a fool.

Sorry, I'm just stating the fact. Sooner or later, you'll be on the streets where you belong and we'll go back to school much to your perverted mind's frustration.

tomzman: I read most of the comments on this thread and all I could do was shake my head. So many comments are oozing of ignorance and senselessnes. What's so special about making an agreement formal? ASUU is not asking for anything new. All they want is for government to be accountable and the arrears of their salaries paid (a normal thing under the law). Only a fool would take the Nigerian government's words for it.
Nigerian youths should learn how to reason without adding sentiments.

And thw question is, why should they be paid? Did they work?