₦airaland Forum

I felt compelled to say this to all decent NLers, especially my Igbo brothers and sisters, please dont let one misguided NLer by the name "oduasolja" draw you into his "kitchen-sink" fight. Its clear by now that this "oduasolja's" stock in trade is to rile all living things in Igboland and we should ignore this fellow because he deserves not even a nano second from the great sons and daughters of the East. Attention is his oxygen and its our job to turn it off.

Check out this fellow's "job" below If you think I'm picking on an innocent man.
https://www.nairaland.com/oduasolja/topics

I felt compelled to say this to all decent NLers, especially my Igbo brothers and sisters, please dont let one misguided NLer by the name "oduasolja" draw you into his "kitchen-sink" fight. Its clear by now that this "oduasolja's" stock in trade is to rile all living things in Igboland and we should ignore this fellow because he deserves not even a nano second from the great sons and daughters of the East. Attention is his oxygen and its our job to turn it off.

Check out this fellow's "job" below If you think I'm picking on an innocent man.
https://www.nairaland.com/oduasolja/topics

Look, GEJ might be the scapegoat now but when the cookie crumbles guess who will deal with Al qeada? you guessed it - Core north! I suggest the leaders and opinion makers in the north swing to action now before its too late. Lets not kid ourselves, fact is - there is no reason to kill. If we all start killing because of one excuse or the other by the time we're done we would have smoked the entire humanity. GEJ's good or bad leadership does not warrant all these senseless acts so whoever is blaming him for either causing it or not being proactive enough to nip it in the bud is being disingenous.

Nigeria is a developing country and if anyone is expecting a CSI or SCI-FI high tech crime/terror busting security outfit then you're in a different planet. Let the owners of these terrorists talk some sense into them, expecting GEJ to deliver that is just bull.

Its a friend that will you the home truth, an enemy will not. Those acting to be core north's friends by blaming GEJ are probably laughing behind north's back. The truth is - this problem originated in the north and it will be killed by the north just as East killed kidnaping. By shaping opinion in a homogenous society, a once triving blemish can be reduced drastically - Let core north get to work now!

[quote author=ndu_chucks]I agree with most of the above. I'll simply add that the remedy needed now is real equity and fairness in the distribution of revenues. The derivation formula needs to be revisited and reformulated in a fair manner. I'm sure everyone would agree with this.


It may surprise you that I agree with the statement above. Despite the fact that many of you people are unappreciative of the contribution to your betterment by other regions, when peanuts and cocoa were the biggest money makers, I fully support 100% resource control.

Each state should be allowed to fully control the resources found in that state with the exception of resources (eg Uranium) which could pose a national security threat. Th ND for example has more gas reserves than could power all of Africa. The only caveat I'd add is that, all existing contracts must be honoured to avoid chaos. NNPC's equity in existing onshore oil companies, for instance, should be sold to the states where the operations are located. Off shore resources should be shared accordingly by every state of the union. The same should apply to onshore oil blocks.

This I believe will be a step in the right direction, if peace will reign.[/quote]I agree to some of the stuff you said above, however, on the issue of using cocoa and peanut to help my people I think you should dump that line because its false. I'm from Imo State and you should know Imo, like everyother state in the East, has never used any help from the north. We have crude, gas, and our famous palm oil plantations so brother lets put aside this idea of us not being unappreciative for all the goodies north gave us. North gave us nothing, instead we gave them and you know it.

Given that nations are expected to respect and honor agreements, I expect the FG to honor all the past agreements concerning oil blocks. I also expect FG to thoroughly check all the oil block bidings/papers, if any oil block owner obtained any blocks in an unfair advatange/below market value then that owner either comes up with real value or forfeit the block. If this nation must move forward all must be equal in truth and in practice.

After all the appropriate screening is done then the block owners must find a way to make the host communities have a sense of belonging. No more "I'm up here and you're down there" attitude. If you have enough money to invest you should have enough sense to protect it by embracing the host community even if you dont like them. I think most of those ex-generals that had oil blocks relied on govt for too long for protection of interests and it worked for sometime, now they have to learn how to shift gear 'cause we're in democracy now, or should I say democrazy?

ndu_chuks, one thing is to understand capitalism and another is to understand the business social responsibilities of organizations/capitalists to their host communities/people. I dont defend cut-throat capitalism and I hope you join me in it. There is always going to be gap between the haves and have-nots but when that gap becomes unconscienably and acutely wide then a remedy is needed. Bottom line - north needs a remedy NOW before they succeed in producing a wasted generation.

As par oil blocks, I dont begruge neither do I defend them - its their war b00ty. The only Katakata is if the real owners of the oil demand, like they're begining to do, an end to the over-exploitation.

There is always the tendency to exploit and enslave a people that are in a weak position, Europe did it, America, Russia, Japan, Arab, China etc they all did it. In 1970 Nigeria started doing it to East, precisely ND. Now, after 42 years I think time has come for it to end. There is no reason under the sun that is enough to justify why more oil blocks belong to northern ex-generals and emirs than Obas, Amayanbos, Obis, Ezes, and Uhwies, etc.

For peace to reign there must be justice. Lets give justice to the real owners of the resource.

d

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bittyend, I called you a "good and patriotic" person in your post on patriotism not long ago. I even put you at par with Herbert Macaulay and Zik on nationalism ideals.

I was wrong.

There are many Igbos that would follow Awo to the grave just as some Yorubas would follow Ojukwu to the great beyond. Fact is - we love and hate for the same reasons. Awo was good to Yorubas and Ojukwu was good to us, nothing to hate there.

We need to quit over-flogging this issue. However, one question I want to ask my Yoruba brothers is this - what wrong did Ojukwu do to you? Do you hate him because you think he wronged your ethnic group or because you think he wronged the Nigerian state? Do you hate him because you hate Ndigbo or because you think Ndigbo hate Awo?

You need to cool off and ask yourself why you hate your fellow man. Whether you love or hate Ojukwu, one thing we can agree on is - 42 years after Biafra/Nigeria war, the seccession bell is ringing louder and Aburi (aka SNC) call is in overdrive.

Take a step back and ask how Ojukwu offended you, for all I know, Ojukwu, both in life and death, never disrespected Yoruba race so all this hate is unnecessary.

bittyend, I have no doubt you're a good person and that you love Nigeria. In terms of ideal and vision you probably belong in the class of H. Macaulay and Zik. However, this is Nigeria where the likes of Zik and H. Macaulay were not made to flourish and reach the sky because the British didn't craft Nigeria for such lofty ideals to see the light of day.

Britain didn't want a country where nationalism runs deep and boy did they get it on a platter of gold. You might say why do I still mention Britain? Isn't it decades since they left? The answer is yes, its been decades since they left but the reality they left behind is that there is no true nation for us. What they left behind is a geographical expression where every region and tongue seeks total domination. They left us a mix-match of sworn enemies and foes and you cant call that a nation.

Its good to be patriotic but for us to truly have that and not just lip-service patriotism is if we have a true nation that we can lay claim to its founding. Right now it will be disingenuous to use the patriotism of US and English citizens as examples. US and England are nations founded by the people for the people while Nigeria was founded by the queen of England for her empire - BIG DIFFERENCE. And for Nigeria to sustain this empire it had to perpetually be in competition and fighting with its different ethnic groups. Yes, we're no longer sustaining the empire like before but cant you see the in-fighting and bitterness we accumulated over these years of empire sustenance have damaged our love and patriotism?

If you overlook the 52 years of self damage this faulty crafted country did to her people then it would be difficult to see why Nigerians don't feel like they belong here. England, US, France, Germany, etc did not send their armies to mow down their country men but Nigeria did and still doing - now do you see why it would be difficult to have patriotism here? How can a Berom man be patriotic if some of the state machineries are in cahoots with the invaders of Beromland, how can a man in Odi be patriotic after seeing how the army of a country he calls his own sacked and desecrated Odiland, what about Zaki Biam, what about Asaba murder that our govt has failed to render apology, what about those Easterners killed in the North in 1966 with some members of FG army partaking in the ignominy?

A true nation does not kill her people and still expect allegiance from the people, its abomination. Now the question is - is there hope for Nigeria? I will say yes and no. Yes, if we can put a stop to the old British Nigeria and engineer a new one where every group will control her affairs and only rely on FG for a national army and currency. No, if we still hang on to what we have now and still think nature will work things out down the road. So, in the nutshell, what we need now is not really patriotism to Abuja but "patriotism" to truth and faith in the outcome of SNC.

Thats my own.

Nwanne slow down, there is a way to love and defend Yoruba without going too far. Ur Id implies "Odua Soldier" and its good you're one but don't be one with so much malice, hate, and bigotry. Ijaw's history spans over 10 to 20 thousand years, if not more, and they deserve a little bit of your respect. Like I said, you need to cool off.

Onlytruth nwanne m, I haven't 4gotten to respond to the issue of Massob you raised. I would respond to it and other things via email. I had your Eze Igbo Nairaland email b4 but cant find it again. I'll appreciate if you post your email once more.

Chukwu gozie gi ma gozie kwa umuigbo.

Onlytruth you have a point but I don't think we're as pacifists as you're making it to be. I think we're more interested in not causing more problems to an already volatile situation. Personally, I would want peaceful solution to all our problems but who is to say I wont board the next available flight to Igboland if yawa gas.

Igbos have a lot outside Igboland, lets be real, and it handicaps us sometimes. But just like in every bad to worse situation in life where you are destined to lose your stuff, then you fight for life rather than stuff. I think we're rather more cautious and pragmatic given our history - I don't call that pacifism. However, what I don't get is why most of our people are still erecting pillars in places that are hostile to us even in peace time.

I bet you an Igbo man is still buying land in Abuja as we speak. If Nigeria finally breaks, I wont have a single pity on any Igbo that lost his property outside Igboland. I'm talking of property not human lives. Human lives, be they Isoko, Ijaw, Hausa, etc. is sacred and should never be taken unless in self defence, but the protection of the wealth of a reckless adventurer is his Biz not mine, especially when history has warned him.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=885573.msg10327536#msg10327536 date=1330873393]To Keep Nigeria One Is A Task That Must Be Done. Anything else would be too costly, senseless, suicidal, and result to ethnic cleansing the likes of which has not been seen since Rwanda.

A word is enough for the wise.

@Sam_Ikenna, I predict that you will be tempted to become a NL bigot in the next 6 months, for now, me like your ways.  [/quote]Ndu, I guess what would make you happy is if I played dead or pretended that all is well - I wont do that. I love and respect every part of Nigeria, doing the opposite is disrespectful to God, myself, Humanity, and Igboland and its thousands of yrs of history. If I disrespected Hausa I would have disrespected a very rich history that spanned over 10 or 20 thousand yrs, the same applies to Yoruba, Ijaw, etc that's why I don't go there. So, my brother, you can wait till eternity all you can, it just wont happen.

You know the story of Nigeria and you know we in the south have played dead for a long time. You know we have less blood on our hands compared to core north as long as this nation is concerned - remember Sharia, Boko Haram, Miss world, Maitesine (I don't know if I spelled it right), NYSC killings, Gideon Akaluka, Fulani vs every group when it comes to cattle rearing just to name a few - Please brother am I lying? Is there any group that has killed like core north in this nation? But guess what - I still respect and love them, I'm still willing and ready to be in the same union with them if they stop. That's what a brother is not the one that play dead to suit your ego.

Why do you want to blame me for saying we are tired of catching cold in the face of intimidation? When have you heard Ijaw, Igbo, or Yoruba say that they will/must take this people or that people in the event of a break up? Yes we might say we're breaking up but have we said we are taking anyone outside our ethnic groups?

Its not the right of anyman to acquire his fellow man unless hes a certified man-lover and even if that's the case he still has to seek the consent of the other. Let the core north say we are going with our ethnic group and whoever wants to go with us is welcomed then we'll squash it. Even in Igboland we don't say we must go with Ikwerre or Agbor eventhough we speak the same language. We hope they know we're brothers but if they want to go with the north then by all means let them do so and quickly too.

So, bro, I'm one person that, not only respects but, loves and cares about all people, especially black people - if I'm guilty of prejudice/bias then its for Black folks world over.

I will state my position again and it is - EVERY MAN WILL DECIDE HIS DESTINY IN THE EVENT OF A BREAK UP OF THIS NATION. No group would/should decide any fate in Black Africa. We've had EU, US, and Arab do that for us before and this time its going to be different. Berom for Berom, Igbo for Igbo, Yoruba for Yoruba, Hausa for Hausa, Ijaw for Ijaw - that's how God wants it and that's how it should be. If Abuja says they want Hausa then good and fine but if they say they want to be alone then so be it, the same applies to Kwara, Jos, Ebonyi, Osun etc.

Ndu_chuks, I will ask you another question today and it is - Do you believe we all have a right to decide our destiny?

This thread has gone to the dogs, big shame. Shame on all you so-called Southerners. A highly placed person in the north who actually convened a meeting that attracted northern timber and calibers just laid claim to our Federal Capital Territory and all we can get from South is bickering.

Maybe Abuja belongs to North or maybe not, but the issue is someone laid claim to it and said its theirs. He told us point blank they are going with Abuja which means if they decide to leave today then our current president would need a Visa to get back down south. What did we do? you guessed it - bicker. No wonder Lugard referred to South as the wife in this relationship.

Now let me ask this question to Yorubas and Igbos. What would you do if an Arab, Chinese, US, or EU came to Kenya and started making them slaves? Would you protest? or would you say - oh Gee its not my people! I know you would protest because you believe its wrong. Now why cant us protest by sending a strong message to this fellow that said he will forcefully take Kwara and Abuja? Is it any different?

Now look at the map of south, do you know that the British deliberately reduced the size of south to favour the north? Now in the event of a break up the north is saying they're going to keep it whether you like it or not, in fact they don't even care about the wishes of the people living in those lands that were originally Southern.

The best way to survival is to hold your ground. Look at Israel, as small as they are they will not give you an inch and the whole of Arab world is scared of them. Tell me one Arab nation that's willing to go toe to toe with Israel? Non! Why are we retreating each time we're intimidated?

This is not just about Kwarra or Abuja, this is about men telling boys and women to know their place. If you think you will teach North a lesson if they venture into your "comfort geopolitical region" but wont lift a finger now then you're mistaken. What if they keep adjusting the border line after the break up, they know you took it the first time, they know you easily catch cold whenever they open their mouth.

Lets not easily get boxed in a corner because of unnecessary rivalry. This rivalry was suppose to catapult us high but we're using it wrongly. We need to tell this Junaid fellow that Heaven forbid if we live our brothers behind - any MB that feels hes going with his kins in the south will do so just as any of the kins of core north in the south will have their choice to decide. North is not our new slave master and as such will never be allowed to seal any fate in Black Africa.
Let every man decide his destiny - This is where I stand.

lagcity:
^^^^
Guy, this Junaid Mohammed is not in touch with reality. He says the North will remain intact. Let's just nod our heads and laugh inside because we know it ain't gonna happen. Tiv, Idoma, and co. aint staying with these clowns. But sshhh. don't tell Junaid, he'll find out when it is too late.

But this is how it starts - intimidation. We know the MB dont feel like they belong up north yet he goes ahead with such pronouncement. We need to call him to other and let him know we wont back down this time. No body is taking anybody by force QED. We either make Nigeria work for everybody or in the event of a break up we all will defend our tuffs and allies.

Onlytruth very soon your leadership star will be made manifest from a mountain and it will shine from strength to strength. You've given so much respect to our beloved leader, Dike di ora mma, Dim Chukwuemeka Odimegwu, Eze Igbo gburu gburu and for that you will remain blessed.

The moment I read the interview I knew it would end up Igbo vs Yoruba slug-fest. But folks on a serious note we all need to get along for a moment and read some meaning into this new development. This man mistakenly gave out something, I can sense that. We need to stop laughing at each other for a second and at least send some hard message to these aggressive cabals up north that this time we will not give them an inch.

In the event of a break up all sections of Nigeria will decide where they're going. From his words you can sense hes concluded MB is now theirs, can you imagine that? We are here talking garbage to eachother and these dudes are laying claim to Abuja and its environs. This is how we all will lose again. I said this before and people didn't take it seriously, Southern people and MB need to lay aside their differences for the sake of their children.

I know Kwara and MB is miles away from me but that doesn't mean I should play dead in the face of intimidation. Core north knows how to intimidate us and its been working so far. What this guy did is either a mistake or a deliberate game to tell us that they will show us if we think we can disturb them with SNC. I have a feeling this new allocation battle is a ploy to get the MB back into one united North.

Listen to what he said - "If this country breaks we're going as one united North." When has SW said they're going with Midwest or SE going with SS, we all here have always left such decision completely in the hands of SS or Midwest. Now think about it - isn't it the same argument they used against Biafra? that they were taking Eastern minorities by force? When shall we develop big balls in the south?

I would hope a southern politician is on his way to reply this man. Some body needs to tell him - Hell No! We wont let that happen. Abuja will decided where its going just as Jos, Ebonyi, Bayelsa, Ogun, Benin etc. will also decide theirs. No section will miss this final chance to decide its fate, plain and simple. We wont let core north seal any fate in Nigeria except theirs. This is time for push back folks.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=883858.msg10322509#msg10322509 date=1330793447]Are you not aware of the fact that force has already been used against biafra in the last civil war and biafra lost that war? It appears you are not yet sober.[/quote]Brother you need to give up this idea that Nigeria is sacrosantly indivisible, then people like us will be ready to have heart to heart talk about saving it. If Nigeria has hope I will join in saving it, it must be voluntary not by force, but the more you denigrate other people's opinion and desire for their future the more people like us make sure Nigeria breaks up.

No grown man wants to be insulted or intimidated and you have to realize that. Why do you think America lost so much men in Iraq? Do you know a trusted poll found out that many Iraqis felt humiliated and insulted by some things America overlooked.

Any man that feels humiliated has nothing to lose. You want someone to be your ally? you've got to respect him. If you didn't learn anything today, make sure you don't ignore that 'cause its food for thought.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=883858.msg10318499#msg10318499 date=1330735994]nwannem, I knew you'd come around sooner or later. If you set aside this lazy call for breaking up the country, you'll start looking at real solutions. The bolded above has become imperative.  What we must do is to find a way to achieve a meaningful restructuring instead of beating our chests and calling for dissolution. I believe each state should control ALL the resources within its borders, provide for its own police force, and write its own constitution.  Offshore resources should remain under the control of the feds.  Finally, if you live in any state for a year or more, you should be accorded the same rights of other citizens born in that state. Can you live with this?

As Obiagu1 stated below, the status quo is not working and has become unacceptable.

@Logic Mind, you are a known silly village goat so your comments are not surprising. Read other reasonable comments on the thread and feel very ashamed.[/quote]I will never sit down to discuss Nigeria solution if we start by saying somethings are off-limit. What makes you think the ultimate goal of every Igbo or Easterner is dissolution? Even if it is, so what? If I'm right, don't we own Nigeria? or is it the other way round?

In real sense Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Isoko, Ijaw, Ibibio, Berom, Tiv, Ogoni, etc. created Nigeria, they are all older than Nigeria hence Nigeria has no right to tell them what to discuss. Nigeria did not create us, we created it therefore we should discuss anything we want to. That's the way it ought to be.

Saying we cant discuss something is like setting us on a slippery slope. What if say ,  we decide today to gang up against one small ethnic group with crowbars and machetes, does it mean that group is doomed? No way out for them?

We own Nigeria, everyone of us is a stakeholder in it so if we agree to make it work you better believe it will, but we will not succumb to intimidation or blackmail to give it our allegiance.

Personally I don't want to use Visa to go to the north, I want to go there, learn their culture, eat their food, and come back alive - that's one Nigeria. I would want to go there and look for work, go to church, drink my beer, or smoke my cigar ( not that I do those anyway but u catch my drift) and come back alive - that's one Nigeria. If I cant do those things or if my life is not guaranteed because I ventured into Borno or Bayelsa then what is one Nigeria?

I'll be glad to join in salvaging Nigeria if there is hope but I will not let my people die because I love Nigeria, there has to be an option. Remember that what almost brought Nigeria down the first time was all the senseless massacre of Easterners in the north and, believe me, what will eventually bring Nigeria down again is the same but this time its going to be indiscriminate massacre of any available group (I hope we dont get there).

No one likes to lose loved ones in such barbaric way. I know Nigeria can always wobble with silly economy but not with massive loss of lives. We need to understand and agree that if people lose lives on a massive scale then they're justified to go, we cant hold them under "one Nigeria" because then they will bring out the worst in them. If Hausa, Igbo, Isoko, Ijaw, Yoruba, Efik, Ibibio, etc  understand that their interests are intertwined with one another then you know we have achieved One Nigeria. As long as we're always looking for ways to drive the other to extinction we wont have peace.

Lets put all options on the table, I believe we can find solutions that will make us respect each other. What will keep us together is love and respect for eachother not intimidation.

Mind you I'm not saying we shouldn't fight corruption - we should fight it just as we fight the root. Leaving the root amounts to nothing. Both Abuja and the states are rotten but if we let the states or regions generate and control their resources with little to gain from the center then we would have fought a good fight.

With the way we're dictated to from Abuja, one million EFCC chairmen wont do a dent on the corruption. Then again you ask what keeps Abuja afloat? You know the ans.

Even though you've repeatedly said I was wrong, you know in your heart that ethnicity shaped our fate - from state creation to resource allocation to military enrolment to quota system/federal character. If there was no ethnic induced fears and corruption why then do we have quota system? Did you listen to what Sarduana said during independence era about contracting foreigners for positions that could be filled by Nigerians? Tell me that was a hoax.

Bro, wake up and stop saying you're wrong, you're wrong. I'm right, I may not be 100% right but you sure know what I said is largely true.

Anyway, lets hear your comprehensive measure for eliminating corruption.

Genius100:
Guy, you are absolutely wrong. If Nigeria separates, instead of ethnic groups fighting each other, it will be the states that are fighting each other. We've already seen this happen many times where one region of one state is proclaiming they've been marginalized and its their turn to produce the governor. By the way, you are again wrong on corruption. Do you know the reason Nzeogwu and the rest claimed they organized the coup in the 60s? You guessed it, Corruption!!! You can continue to deceive yourself, but one day you will realize the truth, What we need is a comprehensive measure to fighting corruption at every level.

Lay down the comprehensive measure for us to see, after all what are we asking for? - Solution, you guessed it.

ACM10:
@Red text

Sam_Ikenna, I must congratulate you for being objective in this forum. Any regular poster here knows how difficult it is to achieve that feat.
I have been following your comments from day 1, and I'm pretty impressed.

I hold u in high regards and I wouldn't want you to descend into gutter with any poster here. Please keep it objective and on point.

Thank you

Thanks bro, in the end we're all brothers. We're only asking and looking for space to breathe, thats all.

Genius100:
Lol. So is it Jonathan that is protecting the corrupt governors in ACN and AGPA and all other opposition parties? Dude, corruption is the reason we have not solved all those problem. Do you think the majority of Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Ijaw people have a problem with determining the true population of Nigeria? No, it's the corrupt politicians that benefit from the inaccuracies. The common man derives no benefit from these inaccuracies.

I wish the problem in Nigeria as painted by you was true, unfortunately its not. This is Nigeria as I see it: There are three most powerful determinants in Nigeria and they are, listed according to their effects, (1) Ethnicity, (2) Religion, (3) Friendship. Sometimes they swap but often they dont. If you really believe that the problem in Nigeria is just corruption then what breeds it? How did it get to this catastrophic level?

Another point is, if it was by random chance free of any ethnic input that Nigeria became this corrupt and backward why then did we have working and forward moving regional govts during the 60s? Isn't it plausible to say that we became massively corrupt as soon as we evolved this almighty FG with its head as the president.

I'm not trying to absolve the states of their own stupidity but we must realize that the center brought all kinds of things together which led to this current level of corruption. Do you know that in real life Christians don't have any religious obligation to travel to Israel but why do you think they do it anyway? Do you think if Muslim dominated states were in-charge of their revenue with little tax to the center that they would be willing to foot billions for their people to go to Hajj?

Do you know how much the FG spent building Airports in areas where they're not needed? Do you honestly think ethnicity was not a factor in FG contracts and awards? Brother, I just mentioned few things for you to know that ethnicity shaped the fate of Nigeria. Ethnicity brought Nigeria down because it brought massive corruption with it. We've been doing this and pretending for so long but the results are there for all eyes. Telling us to chase corruption without taking out the root, which is FG in Abuja, is nonsensical. If we cant separate let every region do their thing - that's the key. Show me any state or region that is competing now, non. They all wait for monthly allocation from the center - allocation that's riddled with corrupt and bogus figures determined by past military rulers that put their ethnicity and religion over and above national integration.

I said this in one of my posts that if there was no Abuja-FG controlled oil money there would not be Boko Haram. I don't care what their beef is with us, what I need to know is - is there a place called Abuja where people share money? if the ans is yes then people will do anything to get there, if it means using Boko Haram then so be it. After all if we cant compete on education and economy maybe we can compete on violence. And if my opinion is not clear enough then think about OPC, MEND, EGBESU, MASSOB, MOSSOP, etc. all these are products of ethnic induced corruption and fighting. No group wants to be left out in the hot pursuit for resource laden Aso rock. If we separate, regionalize, or confederate today, whatever you call it, all the above groups will die a natural death.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=883858.msg10317629#msg10317629 date=1330725090]ngwanu, lets have the national conversation, but dissolution will be off the table. That is the lazy man's way out.[/quote]Why should we put it off the table. Besides thats your opinion, what about mine? Look ,the more you keep saying put it off the table the more people want it on the table, thats just how life works. I hope you remember the story of garden of Eden - tell people something is off limit and see if they wont mess with it. It didnt even work with God and Adam so what makes you think it would work with 160 million people with some deep irreconcilable differences.

Nwanne lets keep on the table, you never know, we might get there and develop respect and love for one another. For us to trully say we are one we have to own the oneness by our voluntary words and actions not a forced one. The union we have now is a sham, little wonder every region is fighting to sit on the highest post. If we desire a true and one Nation we must agree to it. In a true one Nigeria no region or group should kill and get away with it but is that what is happening?

Call for SNC or even disintegration is not a call to hate rather a call to save. The reason its easy for people to keep saying we must be one, we must be one is because they have not been at the recieving end of Nigeria. Tell the parents of the murdered NYSC members about One Nigeria and see if they believe in it. What about victims of several bomb blasts? I was once in Aba when a reprisal attack took place there and that day changed my life. When you bodies pile up like sardines then you will know there is something fundamentally wrong with One Nigeria. We either adress it or disintegrate it. No human life should be wasted for anything in this world much less a sham union.

Genius100:
Chief, this is nonsensical. If ethnicity and incompatibiliy fuels corruption and they are co-joined twins, why is there so much corruption on the state and local government levels? Guy, stop deceiving yourself.

Well, for your info the local boss has a bigger boss in the state level and the state boss has a much bigger protector in the federal level. Now tell me why any local boss that falls out of love with the boss in the Abuja kisses the canvas in the next election.

Tell me why its so.

Ethnicity keeps Abuja rolling and Abuja keeps the small monsters in the state level alive its just that simple. Its not completely absolute but 70% of the time it works that way.

Ethnicity is the reason we have not solved resource control - Am I lying on this one too?
what about census, National Id card, what do you think keeps them from working right. Say the truth and shame the devil.

Ethnicity and incompatibility fuels corruption in Nigeria. The two are inseparable co-joined twins. what we are operating is the playbook of Britain from the pit of hell and as long as we close our eyes to it and say its only corruption that is our problem then we wont solve it.

Those corrupt leaders rode on the back of ethnicity to steal us dry and we know it. Show me any working society that will steal from one region to feed another, what society would fold its arms while being forced into OIC, what working society is incapable of conducting credible census, what about ID card, what about State creation, resource allocation, why is Lagos regarded the second lagest city in Nigeria but is regarded the largest outside Nigeria, How many LGAs does Lagos have and count how many LGAs other states that started with Lagos now have, why should NYSC members and teachers from certain groups be killed at the slightest provocation, why should an arrested criminal be let loose at ease, show me how criminals from Southern Nigeria that were let loose under the nose of security agents, etc. we should realize that just saying its only corruption isn't going to cut it. Whatever brought corruption in Nigeria is alive and well to perpetuate it. There are differences and there are sharp differences. West and Midwest had differences but they were not sharp, Eastern Nigeria had differences but boy were they not sharp. Can we say the same with East and Core North or West and core North?

Shying away from the obvious isn't going to solve our problems. We either have SNC, move apart a little, or disintegrate completely. In 50 yrs how many people will still be leaving here? I hope we don't leave this trouble for them.

[quote author=Dudu_Negro link=topic=883858.msg10317158#msg10317158 date=1330719872]Katz, Gowon or any of those leaders could not even save their own necks from their mutinous soldiers much more save someone else.  You are intimate with this history and have written extensively about it yourself. . . . which one of Katsina, Murtala, Gowon, Danjuma, Adekunle, Ogundipe did not come close to being shot to death for standing in the way to save a fellow Igbo Army officer from the bullet ?  Igbos see these guys as non-Igbo officers but they on the other hand see the Igbo officers as members in an Army bound with espirit de corps.  The action of Fajuyi is a billboard story and a model for portraying heroism and courage.  If a cenotaph ought to be erected for a soldier, any soldier, in this country. . . . . Adekunle Fajuyi should be that soldeir.  He died for his fellow Army officer. ,  . he died for his Head of State. . . . he was not blinded by ethnicicty. . . . he put family aside and clung to the spirit of nationalism and the espirit de corps that bound all commissioned officers of military service together.  We need millions more Fajuyi.  Banjo fought for their cause. . . . Ojukwu put a bullet in him.  Banjo stood above ethnic differences and fought because he believed in their cause but murdered for it.  Even Effiong that saved many more from slaughter and devastation and surrendered to Obasanjo was labeled a coward by these beasts.  They hate Effiong for surrendering. . . but they love Ojukwu for prolonging suffering and deaths and then escaping.  They want him immortalized.  Igbos are blinded by their ethnic bigotry and asking for cenotaph for Ojukwu and Nzeogwu but not for Fajuyi, not for Effiong.   fvck Biafra and all it stands for!   Untill ndIgbo respect and accomodate others within their own interest. . . I have no respect or wish to sympathise with their woes.  

Beside, Gowon already apologized, though he did not have to.[/quote]I have few things to let you in on regarding the bolded and they are:

1. I know this is a public forum so its likely for one to read insults from people.
2. I have always tried to show respect to Yoruba race in all my posts.
3. I know you've always said that Igbos usually throw the first mud at Yorubas but in this thread did you see any mud thrown at you?

In conclusion - The reason I dont shout or yell online is because it'll only get my BP high which is not beneficial to me. The only benefit I would get from shouting or yelling is if you call me or my people Beast face to face not in NL.

So, let the convo continue.

Katsumoto, thanks for you contribution. Also may add that no region, group, or zone in Nigeria is squeaky clean. We all have our faults and its the duty of each individual group to do their respective soul searching. However, Nigeria belongs to all of us and its our collective duty to hold her feet on a hot metal if we so desire. There shouldn't be anything like off-limit when it comes to Nigeria after all Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Ijaw, Isoko, etc. has been existing for thousands of years before Nigeria was born, therefore I don't see how Nigeria all of a sudden became the elder brother to our respective groups.

To make matters worse, some groups have taken it upon themselves to be the custodian of this "new elder brother" which is insulting. They want to tell us what to say and what not, what is treason and what is not - can you imagine? Isn't it the same thing colonial master did? they labled us anti-state/treasonous each time our people asserted their rights. Even in the 90s and late 80s South Africans and Zimbabweans were charged with treason.

Like Achebe wrote, Nigeria is not our father rather our child.  I will go a little bit further to say that Nigeria is not just our child but actually an adopted child. Igbo is my father just as Yoruba is yours but I will not accept this new Nigerian fathership. I will be ready to work with this adopted child provided he is not always setting my house ablaze, if he is then I will waste no time in dumping him or at least returning him to the adoption house. Imagine how a child you adopted is telling you you cant discuss his adoption else you be charged with treason.

Ndu, you've been building this One Nigeria for 52 years since independence and 42 since the end of civil war and we've seen how far you can go. Now this is your "how far" - Millions of beggars, millions almajiris with no future, and last but the not the least, Boko haram.

I invite you to check the condition of core north and its prospects back then in 1960 and compare it with whats obtainable today. You might say yeah we have this and that today as gain/profit, but have you really looked at the awful downside? If you actually did then you wont be here castigating others for their future/desire to be away from you.

The fact is - the more core north stays with Nigeria the more they go down, you might not realize it. Your people take free oil money and have become unaccountable to anyone and guess who pays for it? Northern poor masses. Yes our politicians take money too but they know we're as smart as they are so they don't take us for a ride. We go to same school where their kids go to, we try to eat where they eat, so basically we are fishing near their private ponds. Can you say the same in Core North? So my brother you are the one deluding your self with this Oneness mantra.

You better wake up and realize that even though we're in Nigeria with you we're also not in Nigeria with you. You might not realize it because you're fixated in One Nigeria. We know what you mean when you say one Nigeria, we're not fools.

If you have existed as one Nigeria and after 52 years your brothers are now setting schools ablaze, bombing churches, targeting clerics, imposing sharia, cattle rearers chopping off arms and legs, plucking out eyes, raping women as the cattle munches on anything green in farmers farm, Tiv vs Fulani, Berom vs Fulani, Beggars everywhere, Kano exploding, Imo state or Ekiti state having more than or almost the total number of Core northern university admission, poverty skyrocketing, power slipping away from core north, etc. When will you realize you're better off on your own?

If Igbo statistics look as abysmal as that above I will spit on the grave of my forefathers and move to Somalia after all whats the difference - I wont be here holding on to failure.

The reason ND, SS, Ijaw, Oduaa, Igbo, and MB people have at one time or the other threatened to want out of Nigeria is because they feel they can do better than Nigeria - what about you? The reason you're depicting me as throwing "effeminate emotions" is because you've run out of ideas hence the insult. I wont go down that road with you because I'm not a fool.

The issue is people's right to self determination, if it hurts you then change your hegemonic ways maybe then we can talk about unity. As Igbo, I don't ask for pity, I tell you what my right is and if you think you can keep it forever then be ready for confrontation down the road. You can use cheap blackmail, we saw it during the war but you can now see the war is very much alive as more and more groups are becoming assertive and demanding while you and your brothers are still basking in the euphoric hang-over of you war "victory."

Wake up buddy!

Is that right? Maybe Awo, Zik, and Sarduana should be asking the Brits for 4giveness, Haiti should be asking the Fench for forgiveness, African Americans should be asking KKK and slave masters for same, the whole of Africa should be on their knees telling Europe sorry.

Self determination is as old as man and when you diminish and demote it in Biafra you demote it in America, Spain, India and also in Oduaa and Arewa.

Dudu_Negro, with all the intelligence you display here sometimes, its shocking how low you also go sometimes just to score cheap points. Maybe you think we're begging or crying for help, far from it. We're actually bringing the "Almighty king's" doodoo and poo before him knowing hes uncomfortable with the truth. I'll  bet if you go to Rwanda today the Hutus are still in denial of their actions, they wished the Tutsi's stopped talking about the murder - that's what many of you want us to do - suck it and not say a word because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Because we've refused to stop saying it, you now say oh! they're whining and crying - all these are geared towards making us shy away from the real shame that your One Nigeria did.

You want us to apologize to Nigeria, OK then tell me who should apologize in the following cases: Nigeria/Odi, Nigeria/Zaki Ibiam, Nigeria/Awo (Awo's prison, remember that - who should apologize?), Nigeria/MKO. I guess since Boko Haram is killing us we should apologize to them instead of fighting back. Maybe Nadeco should apologize to Abacha for fighting back, also those NYSC youths killed during election should apologize to those almajiris that killed them.

I guess you didn't see the ramifications of your statement. These kind of unguarded statements is the reason Nigeria is in deep poo today because of "things-are-only-right-if done-by-my people syndrome." If Oduaa had wanted out would you have asked them to apologize? look into the mirror and answer that.

I rest my case. I can now confidently say that your pacifism is a mere mockery of its true meaning. Lets look at the words you used while referring to Northerners and Ojukwu - For Northerners you said "I understand why the Northerners reacted to the killing of their beloved leaders by Nzeogwu and others" and for Ojukwu you stated "I also understand why Ojukwu took his treasonous steps." According to you Northerners reacted while Ojukwu was a treasonable felon.

Now if I should take your belief in pacifism to be true meaning you did not support Gowon's war on the East, why then do you consistently blame Ojukwu for fighting a war that was brought to his domain rather than blame the initiator of the war? Which one is right - blaming a child for fighting back or blaming the aggressor? It seems the only thing that would've assuaged you was if Ojukwu had fled, taking an ambassadorial position like Ogundipe, or played dead. You like to put the blame on people who decided to have nothing to do with people who murdered 30000 Easterners in one swoop. Now let me ask you, if Igbos or anyother group woke up and massacred 30000 Hausa-Fulani would you still preach love and unity with that group?

Its easy for you to preach unity and call other people's actions treasonous. Who even defined the word treason? Do you know that during colonial era any political activity that was hinged on independence was termed treason? Do you know how slave masters defined treason to the slaves? which one is better treason by ojukwu or 30000 deaths by North before the civil war. Don't sit up there and say you don't justify it ok, you might as well say you enjoyed everything going by the acquittal you gave Gowon and North and the guilty as charged you placed on Ojukwu and East.

You see, the reason I even started this is to get your full opinion given how much "One United Nigeria" means to you. Now I see what it means to you is diametrically opposed to my future and well-being. By your own definition, I should stick with Nigeria no matter what. In fact in your dictionary the word self determination might as well vanish because its treason to think or attempt such. According to you If SS/SE gets together for disintegration from a country that gave them more deaths than they could bury they should and would be crushed "again" by GREAT Nigerian Army - really? I see. Well I have news for whoever attempts to crush my people "again" - that news is you will do it from the grave. Its not boasting. I can promise you they will breathe and choke in lethal gas proudly made and administered by Sam_Ikenna.

If I cant have my space then you cant have yours. You can call us foolish till eternity its not gonna change anything. However, what I do know is that Nigeria as it currently is belongs to all of us but if at any time my people, whether its SS/SE or SE + SS_Igbo, decides to want out I would be waiting for that "great Nigerian Army" to crush me "again."

Its really insulting to hear my fellow man refer to my right as treasonous because it suits him but when asked how much death he can take to keep Nigeria one he ducks.

As for Ojukwu, he did what we asked him to do - what did we ask him? - declare Biafra and by God we will defend it! He did his job well and as for Biafra's defense - its still not over as long as someone from 1000 kilometers away from me thinks he can define and distort my right to suit his ego, oil money, and political hegemony.

You know, it baffles me how you think I can coexist in the same nation with you when you exonerate murderers and exalt a murderous army that has done nothing but join in the mass murder of my people in the north and after losing out in election contest unleashed their deadly Boko Haram on us.

On a final note I will say this - After 52 years of independence and 42 years since the end of Biafra/Nigeria war it seems that macabre dance is becoming much more pronounced again. The same people that beat the drums the first time are beating it the second time thinking they have the numbers, the mastery, the courage, and the strength to dance it like they did the first time. They were helped to lift the trophy of the first dance and now they believe they're invisible hence the beating for the second show. They've been good propagandists and masters of treachery for so long that they've lost the meaning of time and change. They think they're our lords and they gloat over their enabled/assisted triumph over their "captives." Due to their inability to follow time and change they've failed to realize that their "captives" are no longer in chains and cuffs - the captives have been free for so long and are now better masters at propaganda and treachery and are more than ready for the second macabre dance.

Mind you, the reason I didn't want us to stretch your equation is because of the ambiguity that's embedded in it. I didn't want things to be implied rather I wanted things to be clear cut like - Hickey No! I'm not gonna let any one roast my pops and moms because of Nigeria, or Hell yea! I'm up for it as long as it guarantees the survival of Nigeria as one nation.