₦airaland Forum

Ndu, first off, I want to aplaud you for at least being a man. I can see the question I asked sort of caged you but like a real man you did your best. However, I would say that even though you tried to used maths to buttress your point , it still fell short of what was expected of you - REAL SOLUTION. Ndu nwannem, I'm probably maths personified so using it to bamboozle me wont work. Your equation had a real solution and that's what we need. 1967 was real and those charged with responsibilities didn't seek for trivial or extraneous solutions, they went for the real thing so I expect you to measure up to them, take a position which is either for or against and please make sure its crystal clear. Now if you think I was being mischievous why not ask me a straight question and see if I wont give you a straight answer.


Anyway let me add one thing here since you said you don't justify the death of any Nigerian whether in war or peace. The question goes like this - since your a pacifist, does it mean you're now withdrawing your support for the war Gowon launched on the East?

I know I haven't read where you justified the war, I'm just assuming you do but if you actually don't then I apologize.
Anyway, going back to Gowon's war on the East, do you support it? if yes, how does that fit into your pacifism bearing in mind you're an avowed hater of blood and war? If your answer is no then state it and we'll squash everything.

Merci, mon frere.

inufele2:
fake yoruba man!!! Ole!!! oloju wonko wonko, Sango oko oya lo ma ko lu o iwo oniro buruku yi!
WHY CAN@T YOBOS STAY IN THEIR BIAFRA WHY DO THEY KEP MIGRATING TO EVERY NOOK AND CRANIES OF YORUBALAND LIKE THOSE RUNNING AWAY FROM FAMINE YET THEY WON'T STOP WHINGING? WHY? WHY?? WHY

What oil do Igbos have? the main oil export come from the Niger Delta, yiboland is in the landlocked, eroded place called biafra not niger delta.

[quote author=Osiris.211 link=topic=884077.msg10310289#msg10310289 date=1330634743]The answer is very straight and direct. Why must Ibos move to the north? Na by force say una must go to north? You fools keep on challenging "One Nigeria", yet you troop out like colony of bats every night to north and west! In one swoop you called them names and insult thier believe,culture and traditions, in another you beg for shops and source of food from them. You cant have it both ways!

You freaking parasites should stay in your land of rising sods.!![/quote]Isnt it shocking how much hate some people have for others yet when they left you had to kill 3 million to bring him back?

If actually you're a female then humanity is doomed.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=883850.msg10311110#msg10311110 date=1330649845]The North is barely doing anything at this point.

Its the igbos/ Yorubas doing the harm. The North are just killing anybody their hands can get on.[/quote]Where did you pull this from? I haven't stopped laughing after reading this.

My bad, I've modified it to Ndu_Chucks. But still waiting.

Ndu Nwanne, I'm still waiting.

exotik:
who ever read that letter ojukwu sent to awo(?) floating all over the internet would have been a fool to allow them biafrans occupy their land without consent. even if they were flushed out of the occupied land and nuked back in where ever was their territory is only fair game.

exotik:
and isnt that what nigeria fought for? make u dey here kamkpe for nigeria and not biafra?

or correct me if im wrong, is there is sovereign nation called biafra wey u dey kamkpe outside what is today known as nigeria?

You said you wanted us to be nuked, didnt you? Ok, I'm saying we're still very much alive. It has nothing to do with being in Nigeria or Biafra but all to do with your wish. You sat in your, probably, cozy chamber and found it nice and dandy to tell us how much you wanted us to be nuked. Nuked for what? Nuked for rejecting pogrom and mutilation that took over 30000 precious lives of Easterners b4 the watchful eyes of Gowon led Govt?

Its funny how we make some comments and think they don't matter. Guess what, your comment/wish also implies that if you or your people/family ever stand up against unjust massacre in any shape or form that whoever is doing the massacre should up it with more deadly/precise complete extermination.

Now I ask you, do you still wish other people nuked for their right? Think before you answer because you might be answering for your unborn generation.

Ndu_chuks Nwanne, let me first say that (1) you are not Igbo and (2) you don't have to forgive Ojukwu for anything.

In my earlier post I asked "Nigerians" in NL to state in unambiguous terms the rightness or wrongness of the justice that Nigeria administered to innocent men in Asaba in 1967, Easterners in the north in 1966, and finally Biafrans during and after the war. I also stated that for those who believe that the justice Asaba and the rest of Biafrans got was a well deserved one to say in clear terms that if their people were under the same circumstance they would, in good faith, accept that same Nigerian justice.

What I have in bold above is as bright as the sun yet people, including you Ndu, chose to avoid it. I don't know why you didn't give a direct response. In life there are many kinds of justice and each one of them has a contour line, sort of an isocline, and your acceptance of any form of justice means you've put your self on that isocline. This isocline may or may not be linear but as long as you're on it there is not getting out. Asaba justice or injustice is an isocline, therefore if you believe what happened there in 1966 was right then you are on that contour line which doesn't have to be straight, and woe betide you if Asaba justice contour line is circular or elliptic then you know its orientation is coming back to pass through your position. So, like I stated in my earlier post - life is Karma with capital K and it is very easy to be caught or trapped in the wish you had for others.

Now we're clear on that lets move on for the business of the day 'cause that's why I'm responding to you.

I have a question for you, Ndu_chuks, and I hope you'll answer that question with yes or no. I'm not going to judge your answer rather I will respect you as a man for at least giving a straight yes or no.

Beneath all your posts is a statement that reads "Keeping Nigeria united is a task that must be done," so it got me thinking that maybe you are the right person to answer this question. Now this is my question to you Ndu, and I want a yes or no.

If keeping Nigeria united requires that 5000 (not 30000) of your people be butchered in 1 year (not 3 months) by another group, and if your people withdraw back to their ancestral land and declare their own independence that FG should launch a humane war (not genocidal) that will kill 500,000 of your people (not one million or 3 million, just mere 500,000) to bring them back, and after the war let FG give your people 500 pounds each (not 20 pounds), would you accept it? Would you still accept that this "task that must be done" must go on?

Mind you, I didn't put Asaba, abandon property, starvation, and shooting at everything that doesn't move because after all its a humane war.

Ndu Nwanne I'm waiting for your answer.

exotik:
who ever read that letter ojukwu sent to awo(?) floating all over the internet would have been a fool to allow them biafrans occupy their land without consent. even if they were flushed out of the occupied land and nuked back in where ever was their territory is only fair game.

Much to your dismay/wish we still dey here kampe.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=882413.msg10304028#msg10304028 date=1330573099]This question is irrational. I can count at least 2 oxymorons in the question. You seem to have forgotten that war is not a dance party and people get killed in wars. It is basically impossible to paint the picture of death in pleasant colours. Death should never be wished on a fellow human being for no just cause, whether he/she is a member or "your people" or not.


I remind you once more that war is not a dance party. The numbers you are throwing around are probably not accurate and the number of dead during the war has been a bone of contention for a long time. Nigerians have never been able to count living people let alone dead people during the war. How did you arrive at those outrageous numbers? Just so you know, blockade is a legitimate tool of warfare.

If the blockade caused the deaths of thousands of rebels, then the blame lies squarely on incompetent leaders and military strategists on the biafra side. As soon as a blockade was implemented, rebel leaders should have known that they could no longer win the war.  The compassionate and smart thing to do thereafter would have been  to surrender.  Instead of surrendering and saving the lives of hundreds of thousands if not millions, as you put it, the rebel leaders kept fighting and causing the deaths of their own people through starvation etc.  In the end these rebel leaders fled. SMH

Nwanne m, It took me a long time to forgive Ojukwu and his military commanders for these unnecessary deaths. [/quote]Ndu_chuks Nwanne, let me first say that (1) you are not Igbo and (2) you dont have to forgive Ojukwu for anything.

In my earlier post I asked "Nigerians" in NL to state in unambiguous terms the rightness or wrongness of the justice that Nigeria administered to innocent men in Asaba in 1967, Easterners in the north in 1966, and finally Biafrans during and after the war. I also stated that for those who believe that the justice Asaba and the rest of Biafrans got was a well deserved one to say in clear terms that if their people were under the same circumstance they would, in good faith, accept that same Nigerian justice.

What I have in bold above is as bright as the sun yet people, including you Ndu, chose to avoid it. I dont know why you didnt give a direct response. In life there are many kinds of justice and each one of them has a contour line, sort of an isocline, and your acceptance of any form of justice means you've put your self on that isocline. This isocline may or may not be linear but as long as you're on it there is not getting out. Asaba justice or injustice is an isocline, therefore if you believe what happened there in 1966 was right then you are on that contour line which doesnt have to be straight, and woe betide you if Asaba justice contour line is circular or elliptic then you know its orientation is coming back to pass through your position. So, like I stated in my earlier post - life is Karma with capital K and it is very easy to be caught or trapped in the wish you had for others.

Now we're clear on that lets move on for the business of the day 'cause thats why I'm responding to you.

I have a question for you, Ndu_chuks, and I hope you'll answer that question with yes or no. I'm not going to judge your answer rather I will respect you as a man for at least giving a straight yes or no.

Beneath all your posts is a statement that reads "Keeping Nigeria united is a task that must be done," so it got me thinking that maybe you are the right person to answer this question. Now this is my question to you Ndu, and I want a yes or no.

If keeping Nigeria united requires that 5000 (not 30000) of your people be butchered in 1 year (not 3 months) by another group, and if your people withdraw back to their ancestral land and declare their own independence that FG should launch a humane war (not genocidal) that will kill 500,000 of your people (not one million or 3 million, just mere 500,000) to bring them back, and after the war let FG give your people 500 pounds each (not 20 pounds), would you accept it? Would you still accept that this "task that must be done" must go on?

Mind you, I didnt put Asaba, abandon property, starvation, and shooting at everything that doesnt move because after all its a humane war.

Ndu Nwanne I'm waiting for your answer.

I've seen some people are really shouting and yelling on top of their voices hoping that the self-evident truth would be drowned, I'm sorry for these people. Wrong is wrong, Nigeria did so much wrong to Igbos and their brothers yet some people, maybe because they were part of the vandals, have taken it upon themselves to defend the indefensible. You ask - why are they worried about Asaba and Biafra? Why are they fighting the truth? Are they Biafrans or Aniomans?

My life would be empty and useless if all I do here was to fight all day just to make the other side look bad. There is much more to life than bicker, hate, and turn the truth upside-down because the truth makes you uncomfortable. Life is karma itself, you never know when your wish for another man becomes your own personal wish. To that end I would say that:

1. If you believe Asaba got the right justice from Nigeria, boldly and loudly state before NLers that such justice is what you hope for your people if found under similar circumstance.

2. If you in all honesty believed that Biafra was wrong and deserved whatever happened to her and her people including, but not limited to, 30000 mutilated bodies in 1966, 3 million killed during the war, Starvation as a weapon, 20 pounds, Abandon property, mass purge from civil service, etc. then boldly state before the world that you would adore and cherish the kind of justice Biafrans got if your group or region were under similar circumstance.

If you're not man enough or objective enough, or should I say, sanctimonious enough to accept the kind of justice you want others to accept then do us a favor and call yourself a hypocrite and save us your unneccesary salvos.

BE A MAN AND TAKE THE PLUNGE! You've been writing all along about how justified this and that is, now is the time to be "patriotic" to your beloved country that you have so much defended. Defend it once more by telling us that you would take, with humility, the justice that Biafrans got from Nigeria because you know in your heart it was the right justice.

I'll be watching to see who's man enough.

interesting.

Wow! Wow! Wow!! My jaw dropped and still dropping. My goodness! Nigerians are in a deeper mess than they realize. These goons will never let Nigeria find the right route out of our present problem because they have the money and their interests are deeply entrenched in power and oil.

I've always known that, collectively, we are poor in the south, maybe we are ok individually but when you put together all our monies in the south I bet you one Alhaji or mallam in the north will knock us out flat. I guess its becoming clear why some want One Nigeria while others want out. In normal society this nonsense would never left unchallenged.

I say it loud and clear that those who died, die, dying, and will die for Nigeria, would have died for nothing.

I understood his point and that's what matters.

To cut this whole thing short - we all can exist independently and peacefully too. However, we still can can coexist in one nation if we genuinely discuss the terms of a united nation made up of different nations. The problem with Nigeria is that we hurriedly took the bait from Britain because the founding fathers wanted them to leave on the spot, now we are suffering it. We can do better now that we've seen the kind of fate that can befall a humpty dumpty hastily tinkered nation.

In the nutshell- we can live independently and peacefully in the east just as we can also live together as one country.

I'm fixing to go to church now, I just dont know how I'm going to worship my lord after seeing that leg.

I wish someone would tell me Nigeria's critical/breaking point. Pls if you know it, are we there yet?

Onlytruth, Beaf, Mazi Eziachi, Obiagu, Dede1 nwoke oma, you people have written beautifully. I'm really enjoying it. I didnt see the war and I'm also quite sure most people here didnt see it too so if sometimes we act over zealous or over optimistic please Mazi Eziachi pardon us. I read from your previous posts that you served for us to be alive and I cant tell you how much proud of you I'am. Your generation deserves all from us because you people gave your all at a time when being Igbo or Eastern means instant violent death in many parts of this country. May God reward you and your generation now and after.

On the issue of minority groups in the east and midwest, I think we can live together in peace if we really and trully want it. If it comes down to it I believe we can have a confedration of Ijaw, Igbo, Efik, etc. We can maintain one army and currency because that will solidify our economy and at the same time project our power to the outside. My people let the past be past, we dont have to 4get it but lets learn from it.

The future of people from east and parts of midwest may not completely be one but its sure joined in the hip.

Onlytruth Nwanne mmadu, pls keep your thoughts rolling.

[quote author=Dudu_Negro link=topic=877722.msg10268689#msg10268689 date=1330125081]I am as objective and clear cut on Ibo history . . . and infact truthful about them as the Ibos I encounter here are about the history and their perception of Yoruba.   It's a balanced scale Sam!  

Take your accusations elsewhere.   Go clean house with your fellas, then come talk to me about objectivity.  ok?[/quote]I guess you now accept the fallacies in your posts. In essence what you're saying is that "I write false stories or made-up stories about Igbo because Igbos write bogus stories about Yoruba" If that's your claim then I would in someway understand, at least that will check off your posts on Igbo as "no-longer-absolute truth."

[quote author=Dudu_Negro link=topic=877722.msg10267020#msg10267020 date=1330108467]You have no idea how Yoruba view wars and aggression.   The Yoruba wars ended when Britain colonized Nigeria. . . .and so since becoming cohabitants Ibo has not had the fortune of witnessing Yoruba in war.  Operation "weti e" was just a political clash and even though it was on a very small scale it was volatile enough to cause fear at Federal level.   It is a taboo. . . an abomination. . . .a prohibition. . . . for any uninvited and unathourized foreigner to raise weapon of war against us on our own soil.  

Just as chase of money run in your dna when you see opportunity, so rage for bloodshed run in our dna when a foreigner raise his weapon on us on the land.   Ojukwu lived amongst Yorubas but he did not understand this one "no go" area.  He had to learn it the hard way, and the rest of Biafranas behind him as well.  We dont give a fvck who you are, you step on our land with war, we meet you with it.  

Many of you are deluded by the history of Ilorin.  Fulani never brought Jihad on Yoruba land.  Fodio did not raise his sword on Yorubaland. . . . he stopped at Nupe territory and turned back and headed to Gobir and then settled in Sokoto.    Act of rebellion from internal conflict is what capitulated Ilorin to Fulani hand.   I guess Ojukwu might have read that history wrong too, even though he studied history.  If he thought Fulani raided and took Yorubaland and why can't Ibo. . . . then history has proven that misunderstanding to him.   I don't know if it has proven it to you and your generation. . . .  In war, Yoruba is far deadlier than Hausa or Fulani. . . .we can fight war in the savannah and we can fight in the forest or in the creeks.  Hausa and Fulani cannot fight the jungle or creek war.  Ibo cannot fight the savannah war.  

So, nna, Ojukwu committed the worst of insults on us when he dared intentionally marched on our land with weapons.  It is an unforgivable act. . . . but politics and greed has caused some of our leaders to forget who they are. . . . and you have the governor of Lagos hosting funeral for Ojukwuu.  That is rubbish!   Will Fashola host funeral for Adekunle "scorpion"?   Will he host funeral for OBJ?  Will he host funeral for Gowon?    Utter nonsense!!   but that's what politicians do, they calculate their gains forward.[/quote]Often when I read some of the stuff you be writing here I shake my head. You really have a twisted view and history of Igbo and in your peculiar way, you think those views are absolute truth, they are not and you need to re-read history books with more objectivity. The other day I read where you called us "uncultured" and you went on on how Igbos will come to your house and use your toilet, eat your food, and other bla bla without leaving thinking of leaving the host's house. You even implied that Britain used us because we were ill-cultured like Britain where as Hausa and Yoruba were better-cultured.

Most times when I come across people's asinine fallacies I just move on because its very easy to see the jealousy and hate from their posts. They don't even mask their words as truth rather they dish them out in a mud slinging kitchen sink strategy. Its very easy to see those posts and move on because there is nothing except an angry person lashing out. However, the same can not be said of your own posts because you carefully package them as absolute truth and that, my friend, is more dangerous and deadlier than anything else.

Maybe what makes you happy is if you hear today that Igbo is no more, that we're all dead. Anyway, you can carry on with your history creation that puts us down and demeans us as uncultured, ill mannered, money loving, un-savvy, inhuman, etc. Its really not going to make any difference because we've been on a much more deadlier road before and emerged and in-spite of what you see on NL we've been sharpened and made stronger by our near cataclysmic experience.

I don't hate you, neither do I hate any person here no matter how much they insult or humiliate my people. However, I, as an individual and an Igbo man, believe in hardwork, patience, knowledge, respect, and calmness in the face of any aggression or adversity because, not only that I cherish those qualities, I also know that my time will come. I don't know whose time it is now but it sure ain't mine - is it yours? If it is then use wisely while you can, don't denigrate people with it.

Its been known throught history that men kill what they dont understand.

oduasolja:
i wonder whose side these minorities are on. they need to stop giving mixed signals. this is what led to civil war.

hahaha! Wow! The lord is good!
Ikemba nwoke ike, sleep tight.

Every man is the architect of his furtune - that's what my father always told me even when I was too little to digest it.

The north, just like other regions, can be an educational/economic power house if they make the right choices, unfortunately those choices are not pleasant to make initially because of our usual Nigerian factor or disease. This disease is what I call oil-induced laziness syndrome.

Like the saying goes - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The north had absolute power + absolute control over oil for many years and the two combined to wreck havoc on their people. Before I go on I want to state here that no region is immuned from this self destructive path, lest no man laugh at the north. The reason I'm saying this is because now that SS has the presidency, eventhough they don't have absolute control of the oil under their feet, they should use the far north as a case study so as to avoid the mistakes/trappings of national leadership. They should massively invest in their people. We all know too well that self improvement and investment is a venture that can never go wrong because you are in-charge of the input and output.

Today the far north is unclad and increasingly isolated by people that once professed "one north" with them, however, all hope is not lost. The north can get back their charm by strongly joining the other regions in actively championing for SNC. If and when we get to the SNC and by hook or crook still decide to stay as one country that's not dominated or dictated to from the center, then and only then shall we have the good old educational/economic competition that was the hallmark of early post independence era. Once we bring back that kind of competition that is fed and sustained by hardwork and "can do" attitude of the people, I believe its only then that we'll begin to see the back of abject poverty, illiteracy, and ignorance.

I believe far north still has a fighting chance because in life you're down for as long as you want to.

Interesting. Negro looks like you studied law.

Anyway, I think we seem to be weak in the south because of same old same old rivalry. I do not blame the North for anything wrong in Nigeria, they only cashed in - that's all. Today the Brits are long gone and we're stuck with a still nation that's no longer working for any region - me thinks that somehow we all going to sit down and hammer out our differences in a mature way or face the obvious.

One more thing, Ndu_chuks, where did you get the SW muslim/christian census because you seem to have it as absolute truth. For me, theres one particular thing I find difficult to believe in Nigeria and that is census figure. No body knows how many we are, we might be in 200 millions - you never know. Maybe Nigerian muslims are the majority or they may turn out to be a tiny minority, one never knows what hes getting in this country and that's precisely why I don't like to be throwing up numbers or referring this or that group as the majority. I guess it would be wise if we say things are 50/50 right now until we conduct a reliable census. We live in a highly volatile nation so designating groups as majority or minority can be explosive.

Anyway, Negro, I hope I didn't derail your thread.

Osiris.211 are you happy now? People can now see why its utterly useless to start mud slinging. I wish Osiris.211 had listened and pulled that nonsense article Dr mad man Osuji gave him. Osuji was a fool, is a fool, and will probably be a fool forever. Whoever subscribes to his asinine gibberish really needs a shrink.

And for you BlackPikiN, please can you take this thing down for God's sake. Must you fall in the gutter with that slowpoke that started this war in the first place? Be a man and get rid of this thread.

I have an uneasy feeling that Yorubas and Igbos will never learn. I wish we would go in a secluded area and slug out our problems rather than wash our dirty linen in the open. If I were Seun I would give both Osiris.211 and BlackPikiN 2 minutes to personally pull this garbage down or face immediate ban.

Seems like in Nigeria we enjoy cursing/bad mouthing people for no reason. While I have my own reservations on SLS I dont think its enough reason to hate on him. He simply stated the obvious. Nigeria was probably messed up before SLS was born so lets cut the guy some slack.

If we want to accuse him of something pls let it concrete not because hes "aboki." For the records I'm not his cheerleader, but looking at his position on poverty, I think hes right.

We need to create more jobs and make less babies if we're serious about slowing this trend of poverty. Also we need to enact laws aimed at stopping polygamy. Do you know that most of our police officers and politicians have two or more wives? This nonsense has to stop. I wish we had pay-as-you on family/baby making just as we do in Telecom.