₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
Hi seyibrown, how you dey?

We would like to know your thoughts on this topic?

Based on my understanding of the Bible; the OT colliding against the NT, and NT fighting against itself. God is stated as One and Unseen in OT. The NT started out that God is Unseen, One. But by the end we see that in the Person of Jesus, God became seen and killed and a Three parter.

If The Bible is the WORD of God, it should not contain anything but His Word. Hence, every Book in the Bible is corrupt. Definitely for your case, since you are a christian, the Gospels. Within each, it fights itself, and fighting other Gospels. 99.999999% pure is still corruption with 0.000001% too much. The Gospels is more corrupted that that.

Lets start from Acts to the end. None of them is a revelation given by God to a Prophet (AS). These books are similar to the history of the companions of the Messenger (AS). These life stories may contain some hadiths, and or even verses of Quran, yet, they are less than Hadith. Gospels are higher than Acts or Epistles, etc, even Revelations, you will agree. It is these Gospels, that are similar to Hadiths. Quran has no equal in Status. You remember we spoke about false or weak or fabricated hadiths? In the Gospels, you have fabrications, false and weak verses.

Though corrupt, Taurah, Psalm, Gospel were from God. Laws from God are talking about God being 1, not Trinity. God deserving all Obedience, Worship, not Trinity or bowing or worshiping the worshiper, Jesus. Assumption that the Children of Israel shall remain chosen, comes rain or sunshine is false, because an evil doer cant remain favored always. He will fall from grace, proof therefore why Muhammad (AS) from the house of Ibrahim (AS), still was chosen to end all Messenger and Prophetic chain links. It only takes One BEST to keep the IDEA permanent.

And from the mouth of a one who cant get it on shall capable people learn about husband and wife affairs? This is similar to a little child any manners telling adults how to be an adult. Worse if you ask me. It is similar to a parrache/parrot (bird) tell humans how to be humans. A person who do not seek shelter from destructive elements that is heading towards him has himself to blame.

And the idea that if someone lives his church the person will die it's not true.  Except if the person has been a negative influence in the church. And If the member has repented submitted to another pastor. He is free no matter the fatua the pastor is pronouncing . The grace of his new pastor covers him. He is now another man's sheep. But if he has offended in the former church , if he has done something wrong. He may need to go and make peace with his former pastor. To fulfil all righteousness.

It is not about the man but his doctrine, you should supply us information on these things. What he teaches, his theology. That's where we star from. The only thing here is that he killed people . That's sounds more like a proof to me that he is anointed. Please don't get me wrong. A pastor has anointing to kill (I'm not saying it is right ). Even though he will answer to God  for the wrong use of the power. Im only saying you dont conclude based on the fact that someone died.Peter killed Ananias and sapphira. Paul delivered some brethren to the devil for their blaspheming . Elisha killed some children by commanding lion to eat them. The anointing works both ways through ministers. But we shall account for every abuse. A man of God is not supposed to fight for himself . God fights for his man.

LagosShia:
@seyi

no one is dictating to you.we are only asking you to abide by the laws in your own bible that are said that Jesus came to fulfill them and not to cherry-pick.we know there are contradictions,especially where Paul nailed the laws on the cross but that is not right.

in islam,it is what the Prophet practiced we follow.so i expect you that you do the same and follow Jesus and not just any jack,tom and harry who claims a vision and is supported by the emperor.

LagosShia:
we do not also say that humans are robots.life is all about trial and struggle to attain the best.no matter what you have no right to cherry-pick which laws should be followed and which are allowed to be forgotten and ignored.that will give more room to disobedience and sin.the law is complete,human are the ones who fall short of observing what is best for them.based on the words of Jesus,all the law is intact.

1. When was Mohammed Born?
2. When was the Quran written?
3. Who dictated/wrote/compiled the contents quran?
4. when was Islam established/started?
5. Could you please narrate how Mohammed got the the Quran/ directions for prayer ( please correct as appropriate) from Angel Jibril?

LagosShia:
@seyibrown

He was born on June 13,570 (CE) through a span of 23 years after each event for which verses of relevance were revealed.but we also believe that the entire Quran was revealed to the Prophet himself in one night.the Prophet dictated to the muslims the Quran as he had received it from Gabriel.the Quran was written in full on pieces of bones,tablets and on date palms in the days of the Prophet himself.the Quran was also preserved by memory as the muslims labored to memorise the entire Quran.the Prophet had a band of scribed to whom he dictated the Quran and they recorded it.they would recite what they have recorded and the Prophet would approve.after the Prophet's death immediately, Imam Ali,the first divinely appointed Imam and first shia imam,compiled the Quran chronologically with details of the cause and place and time of revelation.Abu Bakr,the first sunni caliph, also made a record of the Quran not in chronological order but on the order of the surah starting with the opening chapter.as islam,expanded more records were made by Usthman,the 4th sunni caliph and spread to distant lands.places were the Quran was written wrong,those records were collected and destroyed in order to avoid confusion.the compilation of Imam Ali was not put into use,but rather the one of the caliphs which we have till this day.it should also be noted that when Imam Ali took the caliphate,and sunnis recognize him as the 4th caliph,Imam Ali did not object to the compilation of the sunni caliphs and he used and accepted their compilations because they were the same with his own,except that his own included details and explanation.it should be noted also that Imam Ali had more knowledge than anyone regarding the Quran and islam generally after the Prophet.

you can read more from here:

"Discover Islam":

http://www.al-islam.org/index.php?sid=770512444&t=80&cat=80

"An Introduction to the Glorious Qur'an":

http://www.al-islam.org/glorious_quran/

Islam In The Bible:

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/index.htm
we believe that islam is the religion of all prophets from Adam to Moses to Jesus and to Muhammad.those prophets never gave a name to what they preached because the religion was a set of laws and practices that kept evolving over time.it was only in the days of Muhammad that the religion was institutionalized and formally called islam because all that man needs to know and be guided was revealed.all the previous prophets preached "One God" as their first commandment.when Muhammad's came to an end,we (shia muslims) believe that the Prophet declared Imam Ali as his first sucessor and divinely appointed imam to carry on the task of protecting the religion Muhammad was given and to guide the muslims.we believe there is still the 12th imam who is alive to this day.we believe islam was declared complete when the Prophet declared Ali as his successor in the vent of Ghadir Khum.only Islam in the Quran has a verse of completion:today I have completed your religion and made by favor upon you complete and is well pleased with islam as your religion"(holy Quran chapter 5).another verse says:"anyone who seeks a religion other than islam,it shall not be accepted from him and he is of the losers".

He got the Quran in full and in parts.in full to himself in one night and in parts,as it suits the occassion for each verse to be revealed.the direction of prayer was first toward Jerusalem.this shows a connection of the religion and islam to the previous prophets and that was also a time when Mecca was still in the hands of the idolaters and the Kaaba was full with idols.later Muhammad was ordered in the Quran to turn towards Mecca and face the direction of the Kaaba built by Abraham  on the place Allah blessed as the first house of worship from the days of Adam.

biblically turning towards a direction of prayer or (a major house of God) is not new.in the book of kings we read the following:

relevant verses in the Holy Quran:

From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord.

A Mihrab at the 16th century Jama Masjid, Fatehpur Sikri, indicating QiblaAnd Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;

—Qur'an 2:149–150 (Yusuf Ali)
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.
—Qur'an 2:177–250 (Yusuf Ali)

The Year of the Elephant army man "Abraha" invasion of Makka. He (AS) was born on Monday.



Revelation started when the messenger was 40 and ended when he died at 63. Written down were in patches as revelations were made on him, so that each was emorized, recited, used for salah, for Islamic duties, taught to people, etc. Compiled into a full singular book of Quran within the first few years of his death (AS) under the leadership of Aisha's father, Kalifah Abu Bakr (RA), one of the earliest revert to Islam with no history of having a single child after he entered Islam, in the first year of revelation. Allah is Akbar, and here your issue of Aisha's age (RA) was also answered. Making it to a book was because the muslim reciters, who had memorized the Quran were being slaughtered in hundreds by tribes who are enemies of Islam by deceitful acts, claiming that they had accepted Islam, hence send reciters to teach us, but instead they kill them. This is similar to today's gimmicks, except that the enemies of today also use additional method to decimate the muslims, mass killings with their smart bombs, and white Sulfur and aggressive tactics of lies some people will make up a story about his being a muslims before, and then leaving it to become, usually Christian with 3 gods of which one of them satan was not aggressive enough to push down the cliff, but jewish mobs had to finish the job anyway. The same jews that satan was able to excite their fathers to worship cow they called jehovah!



Directly from Allah to Muhammad from Jibril, except the 4 last verses of Surah Baqarah. That was revelation. The rest is answered in question 2, above.



Before judaism. Definitely before Christianity. The finishing process was completed under Muhammad (AS), in that 23 years of revelation. All Messengers and Prophets fro Adam (AS) to Muhammad (AS) were Muslims, and they all participated in "Islam".

1. When was Mohammed Born?
2. When was the Quran written?
3. Who dictated/wrote/compiled the contents quran?
4. when was Islam established/started?

you were doing fine in explaining your beliefs,until the last paragraph."thou shall not commit murder" and "love thy neighbor as yourself" are part of the laws of the old testament or what you call the law of sin and death.so why do you follow part of the laws and reject part of the laws?

LagosShia:
Allah does not need to come down to judge.Allah has no physical body to move.He is present everywhere,yet He is found in no one place because He cannot be bound by space and time.space and time cannot contain Him.i know those are difficult concepts for the human mind to understand or imagine,and that is exactly the essence of God.whatever you picture is a creation of your mind.you cannot bring God to the level of the creature or the creation.space and time cannot contain Him.space and time are His Creations,therefore since He is the Creator He existed before those two entities were created.Allah is beyond space and time.this what we understand from the first Imam,Ali Ibn Abi Talib,who we Shia-Muslims recognize as the first legitimate and divinely appointed successor to the Prophet Muhammad.

as for the judgement,the world will come to an end through earthquakes as the Quran tells us and everything will lie in ruins,even the mountains and the heavenly bodies!!!everything will be shattered.then there will be the resurrection by the command of God and things will be put in place anew by the command of God who first started the creations when there was nothingness.everyone will be handed an account recorded about his deeds.the angels will be tasked to give you your "report card".then the good and the bad will be separated.Allah can never be seen by the unclothed eyes.no one not even Jesus and Moses have claimed to have seen God.even the bible describes God as "a spirit" which therefore cannot be seenthe Quran has descriptions like "the hand of God","face of God","throne of God",but these are not to be taken literal.this is so because in the Quran we are told that "everything shall perish except the face of thy Lord".so if Allah has a physical body like hand and throne,then based on that fact if it were to be taken literally,the hands of Allah too will have to perish and only His face will remain.that is absurd.so we understand that when you read also that Jesus sat at the "right hand of God",that should not be taken literal.these are expressions that are figurative.

We believe Jesus is not in this world.according to the Quran,he was made unconscious (the arabic word used is “mutawaffika”).”mutawaffik has several meanings.it could mean to cause to sleep.when we fall asleep,we are also described with the same term.it can also mean phical death.it can mean unconscious or a state of unawareness.

We are also told that Jesus was neither crucified nor killed but was raised up.that much we know.as for where is will come from?he will come from the heavens.i hope you will not ask where is that,because I have not gone there… (yet)!!!Allah knows best!
Muhammad is not the Mahdi.the Mahdi according to shia-islam is the 12th imam who was born and still continue to exist on earth after more than 1000 years,but is unseen.the 12th imam is the successor of the Prophet Muhammad in the series starting with Imam Ali Ibn Abi-Talib.for the sunnis,they also believe the Mahdi will come.but sunnis believe he will be born in the future (time is unknown).

Why Muhammad will not come?
With us,there are hadiths which exist,in which it is stated that previous prophets and imams including Muhammad and the patriarch Abraham will be resurrected to aid the mission of the Mahdi and Jesus and witness the culmination of their effort bore fruit as truth and justice will finally triumph over falsehood and injustice in a decisive manner.
If you read well,you will see that,I clearly said “false prophecies ATTRIBUTED to Jesus”.those prophecies are undoubtedly false and lies.and undoubtedly Jesus was sent by God.therefore it is only logical and just to believe that those prophecies attributed to Jesus will not authored nor uttered by Jesus himself,but someone else placed his fingers and authored them in what is known today as the new testament.From the little knowledge I have,the Dajjal is a great oppressor who will try to spread confusion and injustice on earth.this dajjal (or the one eyed being) could be a country like the USA or israel.or some muslims because it is the Illuminati and their world order led by the americans.if you look at illuminati symbols,they contain a “one eye”.even dollar bills have “one-eye” symbol.the Dajjal is very un-godly and against the truth and justice.As you can see from the above,I deliberately did not use the term “anti-christ”.”anti-christ” is a christian terminology in english.in arabic and in islam it is not called “anti-christ”.he is called al-dajjal.the meaning of dajjal is the same with anti-christ.the relation is the fact that the dajjal in arabic is also known as the “false messiah”.he will claim to be the masih/Jesus (messiah).i can also sense that because of his pretense,claiming to be the messiah or Jesus in the end time leading to the final battle between good and evil,he is deemed to be “anti-christ” in english and christianity.correct me if am wrong.
Sorry,but I don’t believe in 72 virgins.i hope God will give me a thousand.lol, but there is nowhere that it states I am promised 72 virgins.that hadiths is fabrication.the Quran does not say 72 virgins,but definitely we will have spouse in al-jannah.

As for the issue of fathering children,I do recall a hadith where it is stated that believers who were childless will be given the opportunity to have the joy of parenthood.You’re welcome!

LagosShia:
What the Bible says about stoning
Everybody must get stoned


For touching Mount Sinai

13There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Exodus 19:13

For taking "accursed things"
Achan ,  took of the accursed thing. ,  And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ,  So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

For cursing or blaspheming

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

For adultery (including urban despoil victims who fail to scream loud enough)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For animals (like an ox that gores a human)
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ,  and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ,  these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ,  But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods

If there be found among you ,  that ,  hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ,  Then shalt thou ,  tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ,  thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ,  Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ,  And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For witches and wizards

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

For giving your children to Molech

Whosoever ,  giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

For breaking the Sabbath

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ,  And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones,  And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

For cursing the king

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10