₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ said absolutely no fathers I than the Father in Heaven in the Kingdom of God, but for the sake of Paul, you believe instead that the law given by Jesus Christ should be bent to accommodate Paul error in judgment, an act against Jesus Christ? LOL ....

Religion!

Show me where Paul said he's a father in the kingdom of God.

And show me where Jesus said absolutely no father except the father in heaven in the kingdom of God

Kobojunkie:
So which disciples repeated what John and then what Paul did?

These men are in their graves awaiting the very same judgement at the end that every follower of Jesus Christ is expected to be subjected to. So why in the world would you consider it wise to ignore Jesus Christ whom all are called to become like only to follow after his servants instead? Is it that you are convinced that if you become like Paul, you will somehow become like Jesus Christ? Basically it you become like the copy --- assuming Paul stood faithful until his last breath---' you become Jesus Christ too? ;🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You folks probably think God is daft!

So why hang Paul by the neck for what other apostles are guilty of. Why only Paul when James and John were guilty of the same offence.
That's my point of u don't get it.

And if Paul making such statements discredit him and his letters.
Then we should do the same for John and James' letters including the gospel of John because it was written by John who disobeyed Jesus command by refering to himself as father. That means 18 out of the 27 NT books should be discarded.

Do U now see how U not making any sense?

Kobojunkie:
You are not making any sense at all. My responses are.to the point so I see no need for this epistle which does not even contain anything meaningful to parse.

[b]The context is the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ made clear that He alone is Teacher, Shepherd, Counselor, Guide, Prophet, Master, Authority, Etc. [/b]Over all those who are His followers. He also made clear His followers are all equals in His Kingdom. So I am seriously not certain why you are having a hard time with this still.

If my biological father becomes just a brother to me when the Kingdom of God is in scope, what makes you think the issue is different for all others?

What I can deduce from your ramblings is it's ok to understand Jesus word in context but not ok to understand Paul's word in context.

It's very obvious who is not making sense. It's becoming a merry go round now.

What does Paul mean when he said he's a father to recipient of his letters. What do you actually understand by that word?

Kobojunkie:
1. I am neither a servant of Paul nor a servant of John. I am instead a servant of Jesus Christ whom both Paul and John claim they serve. So, help me understand why you resort to quoting John's letter in order to explain Paul's error against His master, Jesus Christ.


2. Jesus Christ made clear that the context of what He said was the Kingdom of God as He urged His followers to call no man on earth Father given that their only Father is the one in Heaven.

Your biological father is not of the Kingdom of God. If he were born-again, he would cease to be a father to you and become a brother in the Kingdom of God. When you communicate to him the things of the Kingdom of God you do so as though to one who is a brother — equal —to you in Jesus Christ and not a father to you in Jesus Christ. I think Jesus Christ was pretty clear about how His teachings apply only to those who are born-again and are not meant to be imposed in any way on those who are outside of the Kingdom of God.

Oh really so all of a sudden, we have to read jesus words in context but Paul's word shouldn't be read in context.
See hypocritical double standard.
When it comes to Paul, we must hold him for by the neck word for word and ignore exegesis. But for Jesus, it's ok to go to town on exegesis to explain what Jesus actually meant.
Sorry but this is a fraudulent way of explaining the scriptures. That's what Pharisees do.

That verse said nothing about kingdom of God. Jesus clearly said Do not call anyone on earth Father; show me where it mentioned kingdom of God in that verse, otherwise U are pushing words into jesus mouth.

That passage was about Jesus exposing the authoritative figure and absolute power displayed by the Pharisees against the people. A status that should be only for the Father.
In those days, the words of the religious leaders are final and U dare not challenge it. They operate within the realm of absolutism and authoritative sovereignty.
Jesus condemned such arrogance and pointed out that such power should only be to the Father in heaven.
Paul never displayed such power to any church he wrote to, instead he made it clear to them that he's a servant to all.

Kobojunkie:
3. I am not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the master and those who are His followers — not Christians— are expected to obey His Law every moment of their every breath on this planet. The same EVERLASTING Law of Jesus Christ — never changing —applies as far as Paul, Peter, John, and every other follower of Jesus Christ. :-
\

You have not answered my question, U just waffling.
Is it wrong to call anyone Teacher here on earth? Answer the question.
Jesus said in the passage do not call anyone Teacher, U have only one Teacher who is the Messiah.

Kobojunkie:
4. I don't care for your illogical ramblings aka exegesis. My only concern here is judging all things by the standard that is Jesus Christ. You asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Either you accept Jesus Christ or you outright reject Him. You can not reject them yet claim to accept Him. That is what a contradiction is, right?

Guy rest. Everyone here knows how U twist the scriptures to support heresy. This is my first time debating with U and it's obvious u have lots of work to do.
U can't even convincingly defend your point here even though U are the one who brought it here. This shows u dont even understand what U talking about.

If U have any other problem about Paul, pls bring it here and let's enlighten u. Let's all join hands to cure ignorance in the kingdom of God.

Kobojunkie:
1. So, you resolved in your mind that because John met Jesus Christ, he could never make a mistake? Judas met Jesus Christ so following your logic, You should have no problem doing exactly as Judas did and believing everything he did was holy, right?.

Which of the other disciples repeated what Judas did?
John, James and Paul all made reference to being an earthly father or having a father on earth.

Expanse2020:
It was name after the Jesus Christ ur lord Abi🤣🤣🤣🤣

Elijah means My God is Yahweh. Why is Allah's prophet bearing the the name of a pagan god. That's my question.

Expanse2020:
What meaning of Yahweh

I AM WHO I AM which can be transliterated as TO BE

Exodus 3

14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation

Now the big question is if YAHWEH IS the personal name of God, how come Muhammed didn't know this name.

Kobojunkie:
1. Which do you regard my opinion on this? What Jesus Christ said or what Paul said instead?

1. John regarding some of his children DOES NOT make John right, and neither does it then make it right for any other who pretends to be a follower of Jesus Christ to repeat the same mistake. I am not sure why you felt to mention John in this since the topic is on mistakes that Paul made. Does John's repeating of the same mistake somehow justify Paul making the same mistake?

2. There is no context of what is presented in Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 that makes a servant of Jesus Christ calling himself a father to another servant of the same Jesus Christ. You can't even begin to make that happen since Jesus Christ covered in that same context the issue of there existing no hierarchy among his own and certainly none existing above another in any way or form. Either, you accept Jesus Christ and reject all that which contravenes Him or you deny Jesus Christ and accept men and their claims as gods over you. It is as simple as that.

So John who met Jesus and heard directly from him also erred calling himself father to his followers?

I think there's nothing more to say at this junction. People can see who is making up stuffs, U or Paul.

Kobojunkie:
I don't give a hoot what Paul may have called himself. My only goal here is to uphold the Truth of God above all other claims and opinions.

Jesus Christ mentioned that all those who do the will of His Father are brothers, sisters, and mothers — no fathers.
He then followed this up by asserting in Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 that not only are all those in His Kingdom equals, but there is also one Father above them all, and that is the Father in Heaven, commanding that they have no other father(in the Kingdom of God) except the Father above.
Jesus Christ never once projected Himself as a father over any of those in His Kingdom by the way.

2. How do you justify Paul's claims by quoting Paul himself? Did Paul claim that he worshipped himself — he was alpha and omega onto himself— or what? His supposed letters contain claims that assert that he, Paul, is a servant of Jesus Christ, and as such the next logical thing would be to judge his words by the standard that is Jesus Christ.

1. Explain this verse since it's anathema to assume the title of father in christwndom.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. 2 John 2.1
Why is apostle John calling his followers children thus assuming the role of father to them.

2. What do understand by this word of Jesus Christ in Matt 23.9

And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

So is it wrong to call my biological Dad father. Is that what U saying? Are u saying that Jesus meant that Christians shouldn't refer to anybody as father including their male parent? Is that how U interpreting the verse?

Jesus also said in that passage not to call anybody Teacher because we have only one Teacher and also not to call anybody Master because Messiah is the only Master.
So according to U, are we Christians expected not to call anyone father, Teacher or master according to that passage? Is that what U saying.

Seriously U need to attend real bible classes and learn real exegesis.
For a Christian U claim to be, the way U interpret the bible is alarming.

Kobojunkie:
You first need to know the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself to perceive and then understand the problems that are many of Paul's opinions.
● Paul's opinions towards women directly contradict Jesus Christ.
● His opinions regarding marriage are a violation of that explicitly stated by Jesus Christ.

Opinion doesn't count. I'm not here to discuss instructions or admonition- Paul clearly said they were his own words.
I'm here to discuss the theology of the gospel. Which one did Paul change.

Kobojunkie:
● His claim to have been a spiritual father to some in the Kingdom of God contradicts the truth as declared by Jesus Christ.

John called his followers little children inferring he's their father, and James called Abraham his father. Paul is not the only apostle guilty of assuming the status of being a father to others.
You may want to read Matthew 23.8-13 in context.

Besides Paul called himself a servant to same Corinthians he called their father.
For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 1 cor 9.19

Kobojunkie:
● Even his suggestion that one partner's salvation can somehow precipitate the salvation of the other in marriage is invalid.

I think U should read 1 Corinthians 7.16 b4 jumping to conclusion on household salvation.

Kobojunkie:
I can go on but the fact is Paul's supposed writings are riddled with claims that directly violate the teachings of Jesus Christ and it would take an honest eye to admit it to oneself.

I think U need to attend bible study classes more. It's very disrespectful to lift bible verses in isolation without looking at the context.

The last pastor I will listen to or take serious is someone who was accused of licking a woman's private part. Imagine being accused of such hedonistic act by same woman, a promiscuous actress known for a wayward lifestyle.

That his name is even associated with such person is enough to have him disrobed and banned from the pulpit not to talk of adulterous behaviour.

Anyway people here already confirmed Peter confirmed Paul's teaching.

People claim Paul changed the teaching of Jesus, but no one can come forward to identify what Paul preached that Jesus didn't preach.
Nobody could mention just one difference on how Paul changed Jesus teaching. Just one...

Expanse2020:
Which pagan god

Why is Elijah name My God is Yahweh' or is he not one of Allah's prophet.

PoliteActivist:
There is no such thing as "empty space", as you ought know. Seemingly empty space is full of activity. But even beyond space, nothingness still does not exist and cannot exist, hence you can't imagine it. Just as time will always exist - there'd always be now and here!

I never said nothingness exist, U insinuated it and I became curious.
Time, space, matter and energy all exist within a physical reality where emptiness cannot exist.

However, U cannot use above to define God or look for him because he exist outside the physical reality. That's the stand of theist.
He's the intelligent design that created the physical reality and properties.
However in our own physical reality; nothing cannot exist, and something cannot be made out of nothing.


Regarding time always existing, U may want to read more about multiverse and other universe that exist.

In many cosmological theories, including some versions of multiverse theories, it's postulated that other universes may have different physical constants, laws of physics, and even dimensions compared to our own universe.

In some theoretical frameworks, it's conceivable that alternative universes could have entirely different forms of existence, with different fundamental properties governing their structure and behavior.

Expanse2020:
Yahweh pagan the 3 in 1 ☕🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You better come to this thread two to come and see how Shame de catch ur brothers on top Paul thing
https://www.nairaland.com/8005953/apostle-suleman-attacks-apostle-paul/1#128560608🤣

Explain why Allah's prophet are named after pagan gods.

Expanse2020:
Yahweh is a Pagan God

u see why debating u is waste of time.
you are intellectually inept to sustain a theological discussion. simply parotting what u told in mosque without your own cognitive input.
There's a reason God gave you brain, its for you to think and ask questions, otherwise u become a zombie.

Expanse2020:
Who stumble I told you who is yaweh
I sent you what the erudite said on Yahweh and sent you site to confirmed it yourself but you are making foul mouth without not disproof it.. go sleep jare
You wet no sabi anything

I have answers to the so called erudite claim but your knowledge of ancient history is too poor for me to engage u.

But since U hiding behind erudite scholars now. Do U believe them when they say the cruxifixion of Jesus Christ is factual and historic.
Do u believe the same erudite scholars when they say Jesus was actually crucified. The same ones who said Yahweh is a pagan god.

Finally explain why one of Allah's prophet is called 'My God is Yahweh'

PoliteActivist:
We don't know the ultimate nature of vacuum energy, but whatever it is, we know it is possible it has always been there - especially since it is the energy in "nothing"!

Bring scientific evidence that states vacuum energy exist in nothing.
because principles quantum mechanics disagree with U. Vacuum energy doesn't exist in a real empty space.

Expanse2020:
Let me bring the verse again and tell me ur repsonse

Expanse2020 go and learn from honesttalk, he's an intelligent muslim guy. I may not agree with him but I respect him.

u came here running your mouth claiming Yahweh is pagan but when we challenged the claim u stumbled and ran away.
u talk too much and majority of what u say is nonsense and careless utterances. for someone who claim to be a theist, that's very unwise.
u could barely defend any of the claims u brought here, just waffling and loquacious.

I will advised u to study your religion first because u dont know anything about it. Then take time to study the bible or other religious books...before coming to debate other theists on their faith and believe.

As I see, the only thing u are useful for in Islam right now is a willing tool that can be used to commit murder or instigate violence when someone insults Mohamed or koran.
You are nothing more than the above.

dazzlingd:
You sound like a teenager just learning use of words. You spend your entire energy here, looking for who to engage and keep you busy. Are you that jobless? I don't even know you existed until I log on here to Nairaland to see your miserable mentions. Go get a life man! you sound retardedd

see this one, because he has small change he thinks he can talk.
who is talking like a teenager....u came here and talking about someone being poor.
u will know those who dine and wined with poverty until God showed them mercy and now bragging about their small change. if that's not teenager talk i dont know what it is.
your existence is no business of mine, that's btw u and God- whether u believe in him or not. whether u come to nairaland or not is not my business either.
just learn to shut up, that's my business.

PoliteActivist:
Well, atheists reply that if God can come into existence by himself, so can vacuum energy which gave rise to big bang and the universe

Is energy physical? can it be perceived and controlled within out own realm of physical dimension?

dazzlingd:
I am not sure you have barely eating well. You are poor and suffering in all aspect, yet you fight for your god, nothing good comes out of it. You don't achieve your dreams, you suffering on earth thinking you will die to enter heaven, yet heaven is not sure for you. You will suffer on this earth, die and suffer in the after life again. I don't envy you at all, your ignorance stinks darker than a black hole

except u Bill Gate or Mark zuckenberg, then the stinking small change u think u have isn't my headache. use it to care for your family if u have one.
u are not in any position to tell who's poor or not because u are no better than a poor person financially. your small change is filth in the eyes of another.

we here to discuss the poor intellect in your cerebrum. Learn to shut up because u no different from other atheist I know. I'm not someone u can intimidate with knowledge and facts. I will chew u and spit u out.

Maynthemayn:
Son of a Worthless Jewish slave worshipping the god of Israel and basing his worthless life on it.

If your father had a dignity up to a pig, you would not abuse other people's father.

Hahaha. Failure of a father and son.
Even if your father trained U well, he would have taught u ego.
Your lack of ego is the reason why your father is a big fool.
People with ego protect the dignity of their parents.
Wasted fool.

Maynthemayn:
Your father is a worthless Jewish slave basing his life on a man that is birth and death is unknown.

He already knows so no need to tell him

Your smello fagg.ot father is is a failure. The evidence is U.
Were who wouldn't mind turning his father to pig just for likes.

Maynthemayn:
Your stupidity stinks truly.

The 'earthquake' mentioned solely in the Gospel of Matthew doesn't necessarily mean earthquake magnitude but rather a shaking/commotion or disturbance. Go look up the greek word.

Let us even disregard the linguistic analysis, and use common sense: had an earthquake truly occurred, Joseph of Arimathea wouldn't have proceeded to ask Pilate for jesus body that same evening. Also, Pilate, having witnessed such extraordinary EARTHQUAKE, wouldn't have released Jesus' body just like that, that same evening. Also note that neither the Pharisees nor anyone else mentioned the earthquake when they met with Pilate.
Additionally, if the Pharisees had witnessed resurrected corpses roaming the city, why would they bother securing the tomb with soldiers?

Why you so credulous?

Your father is a bastard. Tell him I said so.

dazzlingd:
Give me the day I’d be embarrassed.
Replying you is a waste of energy by the way, your stupidity stinks so bad

Continue poking your nose into what's not your business.
Your stupidity will be badly exposed.

Expanse2020:
Ehen so tell me every Muslim always read bible before reading Quran 😂🤣🤣😂😂😂😂
I will like you to proof it to me óò
Who came first óò you may enlightening me if it is Moses OOO😂🤣🤣🤣
Abraham came first Abi you see another verse that said Moses was the first man in your own Quran too, 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We hear every Xtians are now getting There own copy of the Quran t😂😂😂😂

How did U know Abraham came first b4 Moses. Show me the verse in the Koran that gave u that knowledge/insight that Abraham existed b4 Moses.
That's my question, not all these meaningless rant.

I want to prove to U that without the bible your Koran makes no sense.

Expanse2020:
According to QURAN he is not a wealthy person because they didn't qualify him as a wealthy man also in your book point out where he is a reach am but he is a carpenter
Why did we have to forget the peace of a shit book when am referencing to the actor in the comic book🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣

As if the Koran makes sense without first reading the bible.
U want me to prove above to U.
Tell me who came first according to the Koran, Abraham or Moses.
Without referencing the bible, tell me who came first btw Abraham or Moses in your Koran.

Playing opposition in Russia right now is playing suicide.
Putin has a firm grip on that country and majority of the citizens love it that way.
Russians trusted the west after the fall of communism but they got their finger burnt. They have come to realise west doesn't mean we'll for Russia.
Russians would rather have a benevolent tyrant than a western puppet in Kremlin
That's the plain truth.

My advise for all anti Putin is to leave Russia. U are fighting an already lost battle.

AntiChristian:
What you're saying is that Samson misused the spirit of the Lord. He misused the third part of your God! Am I getting you clearly?
So the Holy Spirit was just in Samson silently and Samson was being empowered by it giving him strength but not accountable for what the Strength/Power it gave?

Holy spirit wasn't in Samson like it was with Jesus. Holy spirit cannot not be inside a mere man.
It was the manifestation of the holy spirit that was upon him n that was what he misused.

AntiChristian:
Samson was not to touch strong wine or anything unclean!

So how does this explain how the holy spirit used him to kill a thousand, steal, etc?

As usual I know u will abandon the debate once U trapped.
U come here with your shallow knowledge of the scriptures but when your brain is formatted, U run away.

Anyway I will summarise.

Samson was supposed to live as a Nazarite. These are people dedicated to God and are under sacred vows. There are strict commandments Nazarites are expected to adhere to so long as they under the vow. If they unintentionally break any of the commandments, Nazarites are expected to undergo purification b4 they can continue their sacred commitment unto God.

In the case of Samson, God promised to make him a leader in Israel who will deliver his people from the hands of the philistine as a fulfilment of his Nazarite covenant. Samson would be able to achieve this by virtue of the spirit of God stirring him to become a mighty man.

God fulfilled his own part of the covenant because he's always faithful even when we are unfaithful. Samson indeed was a mighty man.

2 Timothy 2.13
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

But did Samson fulfil his own end of the bargain? Samson ignored the commandments attached to being a Nazarite. For example, nazarites are not to come in contact with dead people and if it happens they are suppose to undergo purification.
Samson killed with reckless abandon, smashing skulls and bones, and leaving multiple dead people in his trail.
Samson was confident he would retain his power so long as the specific ordinance that established his vow with God remain intact- his hair must not be touched. As far as the rest of the Nazarites requirements are concerned - Samson considered them inconsequential.

Samson misused the manifestation of the spirit of Lord in him, the same way Jesus will deny those who have misused the grace of the spirit at work in them on judgement day.

Samson lived a careless life, for man of God to live such careless life...it was only a matter of time he ends up in the belly of the devil.

AntiChristian:
Samson was not to touch strong wine or anything unclean!

So how does this explain how the holy spirit used him to kill a thousand, steal, etc?

As I said once U are trapped, U run away.
Not surprised.

I know once the real exegesis of the text start, U will definitely disappear.

Na u sabi.

Expanse2020:
Jesus is poor he can't afford 3quare mill talkless of owning a slave
One of your brother said he only had one garment and a robe🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Forget bout Jesus in the bible. Let's talk about ISA in the Koran who is supposedly Jesus.
Did he owe slaves, did he have a wife. If no, why?
Is it because he was poor.