₦airaland Forum

Qasim6:
Here is my servant, whom I uphold

I don't think I need to show you how Muhammad is a servant/slave of God.
You all know how we Muslims pride ourselves as servant/slave of God.
The word translated as servant in that verse "abdi" which is the the same Arabic word abd.

The question is are you christains comfortable with calling Jesus servant/slave of God?

My chosen one in whom I delight

One of the well known title of Prophet Muhammad in Islamic tradition is Al-Mustapha (the chosen one)

He is the chosen one in the sense that He is the seal of Prophethood.

He is the only Prophet sent to all mankind, other prophets before him were only sent to some localities.

I will put my spirit upon him

Ibn Ezra who was a Jewish commentator said This means a 'Prophetic Spirit' which means this chosen one will be a prophet.

Numbers 11:29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”

Q 16:2 He (Allah) sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command, upon whom He wills of His servants: “Give warning that there is no god but Me, and fear Me.”

Q 16:102 Say, “The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, in order to stabilise those who believe, and as guidance and good news for those who submit.”

Stop all these intellectual dishonesty. I'm not interested in any vague interpretation.

There different spirits mentioned in the bible including spirit of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel.
There's also unclean spirit and spirit of evil.

Isaiah 42 is talking about spirit of God. The manifestation of the spirit of God empowers a prophet to prophecy and speak for God.
Go back and read the numbers 11 U quoted starting from v 24.

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.

The Koranic verses U brought here mentioned a spirit accompanying an angel. Whose spirit? Did it rest on Muhammed?
Angels don't have the holy spirit. They are spiritual beings themselves and bible called them ministering spirits.

The 2nd verse mentioned holy spirit. As far as I'm aware in islam, the holy spirit is angel Gabriel. So don't know how that relates. Isaiah 42 is not talking about angel Gabriel.

Pls bring an explicit statement that said the spirit of God rested on Muhammed. Not someone sending an unknown spirit thru an angel.
One of the problem christians have with Muhammed prophethood is that there's no evidence he spoke to God directly nor did the spirit of God rest on him. So how did he receive his revelations?

We don't have a problem with Jesus being servant of God. Peter confirmed Jesus to be servant of God.
Read about hypostasis union.

Acts 3
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Qasim6:
I'm sure you did not look up those verses, the least you could do is to look up those verses so you won't embarrass yourself badly.

I know how badly you want to show errors in the Qur'an to save face with the errors of the Bible.

the Qur'an y'all claim was copied from the Bible, somehow avoid the errors there in.
I know Christainity is a blind faith religion, but at least muster some strength to use your cognitive skill once in a while.

Who was the first Muslim according to Qur'an?

Option 1. Muhammed
Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Quran 39:11-12
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
Quran 6:163

Option 2. Noah
And if you turn away [from my advice] then no payment have I asked of you. My reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims."
Quran 10:72

Option 3. Lot and his family
And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims.
Quran 51:36

Option 3 Abraham
And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.
Quran 22:78

Option 4. The disciples of Jesus
And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims"
Quran 5:111

Option 5. Moses
When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ”
Quran 7.143


Choose only one option. Note there's negative marking- guessing is frowned upon in theology.
If U don't know, say U don't know

Qasim6:
Non of the story of Jesus you have is divine revelation, they are forgeries upon forgeries upon forgeries.

Like I said, it's the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust it 100%

Since we talking of forgery and divine revelation.
I saw this and decided to share.

Honestey:
"I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."


Jesus like we believe in Islam is a prophet of God and this is very confirmed by Jesus himself. Stop committing sin of equating him to God for Almighty God(Allah) has no equal. I pray on to you all to find your way into Islam and be true worshippers of Almighty Allah. Peace be on to you.

Besides let's test the monotheistic claim in Islam.
Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?

Honestey:
"I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."


Jesus like we believe in Islam is a prophet of God and this is very confirmed by Jesus himself. Stop committing sin of equating him to God for Almighty God(Allah) has no equal. I pray on to you all to find your way into Islam and be true worshippers of Almighty Allah. Peace be on to you.

Become muslim so that I will now be bowing down to a stone?
Thanks but offer rejected. God hates idolatry and paganism.

Ohyoudidnt:
When and where was the Divinity of Jesus established?

The false claim to divinity of Jesus indeed contradicts the principles of monotheism. In monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the belief in one supreme deity is central. Monotheism asserts that there is only one true God who is to be worshipped and honored above all else. The concept of monotheism emphasizes the oneness and uniqueness of this divine being, rejecting the idea of multiple gods or deities.

since you have joined the legions of muslims apologetics who are experts in gospel exegesis to deny the divinity of christ. explain this passage.

Mathew 22
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[e]
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Ohyoudidnt:
The claim that Jesus is divine or part of a trinity challenges the core tenets of monotheism by introducing a multiplicity within the divine essence. This is a divergence from strict monotheism .

please remove Allah from a monotheist God- the oneness and uniqueness of Allah has been debunked. He failed the divine simplicity test. Allah's oneness and uniqueness is not uniform or homogenous.

Qasim6:
I will be glad, I have been looking for that Christain that will tell me when Jesus made the Arabs rejoice and sing for joy.

Ok, Let's start with verse 1 and then move. I'm sure U will gas out b4 we get to that favourite verse U desperate for.

Isaiah 42
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,

Show me how this verse relates to Muhammed. Show me where Muhammed or Koran or hadiths ever said your prophet had the spirit of God inside him.
Do U even believe in the spirit of God as described in the bible- pls I'm not talking about trinity, don't go there.

Meanwhile see the Arabs beautiful kids singing to Jesus.
What a lovely sight to behold.
Obviously some people thought all arabs are Muslims.

Qasim6:
We only know about what Thallus wrote because Theophilus of Antioch quoted him around 180.
With the reputation of early Christian writers with forgeries, I'm not sure we can trust them since thallus work on Jesus did not survive.

Have U read Julius Africanus to understand the thalus statement in context?

Qasim6:
Mara bar Serapion only mentioned in a letter the execution of a certain wise king of the jew.
And there is uncertainty as to when he wrote the letter. It is dated between 73AD to before the 3rd century.


The forged testimonium flavianum still remain the earliest source because we know with certainty Josephus wrote in 93/94.

Good thing u learning about historicity of Jesus outside of the biblical narrative.
Read the letter of king abgar to emperor Tiberius for more historicity.

Qasim6:
Do you think Prophet Muhammad was forging the Bible when he did not go with Haman as an aide to Persian King and placed him as a chief of Pharaoh?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he placed mount Judi rather than Mountains of Ararat as the resting place of Noah's ark?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when He did not make mistakes of calling Egyptian kings at the time Abraham and Joseph Pharaoh like the Bible did?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he made a bold claim that the body of Pharaoh of Moses was preserved, mind you the bodies of the preserved Pharaohs were found in the 18th century.


It is the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust the Qur'an 100%

Reputation or bondage to blind faith.
Explain to me how on earth could the Jews claim they killed their Messiah.
Yes your Koran wrote the Jews said they killed their Messiah. Explain how's that even possible?
Whoever wrote that surely doesn't know what he's talking about.

Qasim6:
Non of the story of Jesus you have is divine revelation, they are forgeries upon forgeries upon forgeries.

Like I said, it's the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust it 100%

🥱🥱🥱🥱. What's divine revelation in telling us Jesus spoke at birth. Something we Christians read and rejected as unreliable. How can something well known be called divine revelation
How can we believe Jesus spoke at birth when nobody said it or wrote about it for 100 years of christianity. None of the apostles mentioned it, Mary when alive didn't mention it, Jesus didn't preach it.
But somebody wrote about it in 150AD and attributed it to James.
We outrightly rejected it but unfortunately for U guys,
Muhammed put am for Koran, U guys have to accept it as true. Or U get choice ?

Qasim6:
I don't think Uzair is Ezra.

Says Qasim the nairaland islamic jurisprudence specialist.

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allāh"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allāh."

Surah 9.30
Oya start forging your own explanation to cover up the embarrassment in the Koran since U know better than Arabic linguistic experts.

Anyway whoever U come up with, tell me when Jews started calling him the son of God.

Ohyoudidnt:
Arianism posits that God is one being and one person, not three distinct persons as in the traditional Christian understanding of the Trinity.

Pls remove my name from your mentions about trinity until you explain the confusion of Tawhid.
Tawhid cannot make sense if I cannot worship the shin of Allah. How can the oneness of Allah be unique when some parts of him lacks divinity. That means the unique oneness of Allah is not homogeneous within his existence.
Your Allah is a composite god. A god with body parts. U even claimed in your previous post that the shin of Allah was created i.e Allah has created parts attached to him.
U digging yourself deeper in the mess created by Tawhid.

Pls don't ask me to explain trinity if U cannot explain Tawhid convincingly.
Thank U.

People are wicked sha. Just because she's blind, evil people targeted her daughter.
Now, if God should place a generational curse on this evil doers, their children will open mouth n say God is wicked.

Blkpanda:
I don’t agree with the crux of your arguement that you retain your full identity if you lose a piece of yourself

Does the name of an amputee change because a leg is ampiutated? No. His person as a human isn't altered based on loss of a shin. U only known as an amputated person but what makes u human doesn't change.
Remember MR NIGER D.

Blkpanda:
That said, isn’t Allah a deity? Same as Christian/Jewsih God, and not a physical one. So the same rules of worshipping Gods shin would apply to Allahs shin? What am I missing?

That is the point of divine simplicity. A God shouldn't have parts and his essence should be uniform and the same within his existence.
Otherwise there will be some areas of him that will not be God, that's the problem

We Christians don't have this problem because the Christian God is a spirit. Spirits don't have shape or form. The deity of God is the same within his existence.

Ohyoudidnt:
Perhaps but you still haven't said what the council of Ephesus was about? You claim my submissions are false and fail to say what it was.



Do you state that this council has nothing to do with the thorough cooking of the lie you call trinity in Christendom?

Very funny...confused worshipers of a composite god questioning trinity.
The audacity!!!
Allah has a shin that shouldn't be worshipped. Yet Muslims will bow to the shin of Allah on judgement day.
The shin of Allah is intrinsic to Allah but not body parts of Allah. Then what is it?

Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him.
Sahih al- bukhari 7349

If believers will worship the shin on judgement day why can't I start now?
Tawhid in the mud.

U guys should first sort out the body parts of your Allah and be certain he's actually one and single as U claim. Then we can discuss trinity.

[quote author=Ohyoudidnt post=129197061][/quote]Your screen shot didn't answer my question.
Is the shin of Allah intrinsic to Allah or separate from him. That's my question.
You just repeated the answer to my initial question which is cani worship the shin of Allah? And U already said no. So why repeating the answer.

Anyway from the screenshot, it seems U agree the shin of Allah is intrinsic to allah- correct me if I'm wrong.

That means Allah's form or shape has a physical attribute called shin that doesn't share in his deity- the very reason he's God. That's why we can't worship the shin.

This automatically mean Allah is a composite being- he'd made up of parts. That's what U guys don't understand.

Allah has parts but he's not that part. Allah has a shin but he's not the shin.
Above is the definition of composite and that's the description of your god.

This automatically means Allah is not one or single in his entire being because his deity as God is not uniformly distributed within him.
There are some intrinsic physical attributes of Allah that can be cut off permanently and he will still be Allah. i.e Allah can be divided and no harm will come to the deity.
Allah as God is neither single nor one.
Tawhid is a false concept and doesn't make sense.
Simple.

Tallesty1:
This is an intriguing perspective, and I'm eager to delve deeper into it. Based on my understanding, if Jesus' mission were exclusively for the Israelites, it would contradict numerous instances in the Bible where he interacted with and ministered to people from diverse backgrounds.

Firstly, despite initially stating that he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24), Jesus demonstrated compassion and inclusivity in his actions. For instance, when a Canaanite woman approached him seeking help for her daughter, Jesus ultimately healed the daughter, commending the woman's great faith (Matthew 15:28).

Jesus' encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:1-42) challenges the notion of exclusivity. Despite societal and cultural barriers between Jews and Samaritans, Jesus engaged in meaningful dialogue with the woman and revealed himself as the Messiah. This interaction underscores Jesus' universal message of salvation transcending ethnic boundaries.

Jesus' response to the plea of a Roman centurion for the healing of his servant (Matthew 8:5-13) exemplifies his willingness to extend grace beyond the confines of Israel. Despite being a Gentile, the centurion's faith impressed Jesus, who commended it as greater than any he had seen in Israel.

Additionally, Jesus' commission to his disciples to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19-20) and his declaration that he would draw all people to himself when lifted up (John 12:32) emphasize the universal scope of his mission. These verses underscore Jesus' intention to offer salvation to people of every race, ethnicity, and nationality.

The account of Peter's encounter with Cornelius in Acts 10 further reinforces the inclusivity of Jesus' message. Despite Peter's initial reluctance due to societal norms, he obeyed God's command to go to Cornelius, a Gentile, and proclaim the Gospel. This event marked a significant shift in understanding that God shows no partiality and accepts people from every nation who fear him and do what is right (Acts 10:34-35).

In essence, while Jesus' earthly ministry began with a focus on the Israelites, his ultimate purpose was to extend salvation to all humanity, thereby fulfilling the promise made to Abraham that through his offspring, all nations would be blessed (Genesis 12:3).

Therefore, to assert that Jesus was exclusively for the Israelites overlooks the abundant evidence in the Bible that demonstrates his universal love and grace for all people.

Just ignore that heretic preacher. He would soon give u a response that makes no sense ignoring all the passages U quoted.

Qasim6:
The fact that the first non Christains source we have is forgery even cast more shadow on Christainity.

Again another gbagaun. The first person we know that wrote about Jesus was thallus the Samaritan who described the events of the cruxifixion around 50s AD. Ben mara sarapion wrote about Jesus in 73AD.
Josephus' works was in late 90s AD.
So who first wrote about Christ.

Qasim6:
All these historians you mentioned were all born years after Jesus already left and non of them wrote in anything lesser than 100 years after the event. So I can argue they were only parroting the believe of Christians around them, I'm sorry, it doesn't help your case.

Seriously coming from a Muslim whose knowledge about Christ came from a forger 630 years after chrsit lived. U refuse to believe someone that wrote about Christ 100 years after his death but swallowed the tales of a desert forger who lived 600 yrs after the events he described.
U go fear the way Muslims reason. Islam can never be reconciled with common sense, it's an infinite impossibility.

Qasim6:
A dubious character u say? A whole chosen servant of God in ........

It's ok to live in delusion, U won't be the first and not the last. I'm happy to cure your delusion of Isaiah 42 if U oblige me. Bur as usual U will run away.

Qasim6:
You don't want to go to all this forging accusation, that is something peculiar with Christainity. It is silly and unwise, don't go there!

The biggest work of forgery ever known to mankind is the Koran. How Muslims believe that it's from God is a mystery to me.
The whole of story about jesus in your Koran is not any divine revelation. They are stories in our apocryphal gospels. Stories of Mary, jesus talking at birth and jesus creating life are all in our gospel books written 100 years after the said events.
Go and read the infancy gospel of Thomas and protoevangelium of James, all the stories are there.

These are gospel books we rejected because we know they are forgeries.
Now a forger forging from a forgery book into his own forged book only to turn around to lie that Allah told him the stories. U Muslims are lost.

Qasim6:
Is Christainity as a religion 100% faith and 0% common sense?, Because I don't understand how any sane person will follow a religion riddled with so much forgeries.

Tell me when did Jews start calling Ezra the son of God. because your Koran claimed they do.
Let's see the religion of zero common sense and 100% blind faith.

Qasim6:
You go wait tire!

Then your Allah is a composite god. He's a god made up of body parts. If I can't worship the shin of Allah, then your Allah isn't single.

U people should do more to learn about your religion, it's comedy at best.
Next time I'm going to ask u when did your god start calling himself Allah.

Blkpanda:
What is the significance in worshipping the shin? Why shin?

If Allah is one and single as Muslims want us to believe, then everything about Allah's form and existence should be Allah otherwise he not single.

That means his essence should be uniformly distributed in whatever form he exist.

But if U are telling me Allah has a shin but I cannot worship the shin. That means his shin doesn't have the essence of Allah.
That automatically mean Allah is a composite being who's made up of parts just like human beings even if Muslims don't want to admit.

For example my leg is not me, my hands are not me and my face isn't me. Humans are not single beings but composite beings.

That's why someone with a leg amputation still retain his full identity because the amputated leg isn't the person, it's just part of the person that no longer exist with him.
Above is the description of the god of the Muslims. A god made up of body parts, what a god!!!

Ohyoudidnt:
I deliberately didn't put all details hoping to get a strong rebuttal why it isn't so yet.

The fact that Arianism still exists today shows how much they weren't convinced otherwise or coerced to believe otherwise.



Oh boy stand well. Arian theology says Jesus is only begotten son that was created and is not a co-creator with God.

For Arius and his followers, Jesus is considered a created being who is not eternal and is not equal to the divine. This belief contrasts with the traditional Christian view of the Trinity, where Jesus is seen as co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father.

To Arians there was a time when Jesus was not,” indicating that Arians believe there was a time before which the Son existed. This perspective leads them to reject the term “homoousios,” meaning “of one substance” with the Father, as they argue that it is not scripturally supported.

What does Arianism doctrine teach about Logos?
We Christians reject Arianism because it's heresy. U Muslims are the ones who seem to have a new lover in Arianism.
So tell me what is Arianism doctrine on Logos and how is it related to Jesus Christ.

Ohyoudidnt:
When answered your closed thinking prevents you from seeing anything else. You were adequately answered and it's not my fault you don't understand or pretend not to understand. It is your understanding or lack of.

U didn't answer my question if the shin of Allah is with Allah or separate from him.
If U did, screenshot your response otherwise U are a liar.

Failure to answer means your god is a composite being. Allah made up of body parts. Simple.

Blkpanda:
What is the significance in worshipping the shin? Why shin?

According to Muslims the unique oneness of Allah means he's indivisible and he's one in it's entirety.
The concept is Tawhid ( oneness of Allah) is hinged on Allah is indivisibly one and single.

But if U now telling me Allah has a shin that's with him but not him and cannot be worshipped as Allah, then U admitting Allah is a composite being made up of parts.
His uniqueness isn't one because there are some parts of him that do not share his full essence and glory. Allah is not a unified entity.

This negates the principle of divine simplicity which states that God does not exist in parts but is one unified entity, with no distinct attributes; that is, God’s esse is identical to God’s essence.

Ohyoudidnt:
Eusebius of Caesarea interpreted John 1:1 as two distinct persons in this verse - God and the Logos (Word), suggesting a subordinationist understanding where only one could represent ultimate reality. This nuanced interpretation reflects Eusebius’ theological position within the broader Arian controversy.

Arian theology makes it clear that Jesus is the begotten son of the father. According to Arianism, Jesus is derived from the Logos which is an attribute of the God the father.

Arianism taught that the Logos was a divine being begotten by God the Father before the creation of the world, made him a medium through whom everything else was created.

As I said earlier, U don't know what I talking about. U muslims are just clutching at straws to validate your weak islamic theology.

That was how U guys believe ebionites were the true followers of Christ until that claim was bursted.

Meanwhile explain to me when did Jews start calling Ezra the son of God.
Since U can't explain to me how your Allah is a composite being, a god made of body parts.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are Logos and God 1 and the same?

No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known” (John 1:18). This passage emphasizes that Jesus has revealed God to humanity. This is to say making those around him conscious and respectful od the almighty
Advising to live in obedience of the divine

A Muslim trying to give exegesis of the bible. U go fear.

But wouldn't explain why I can't worship the shin of Allah.
Oga explain to me is the shin of Allah with Allah or separate from Allah.
Otherwise U guys are worshipping a composite god.
A god made up of body parts. Your Allah is derived from different body parts.

gaskiyamagana:
Research about Christianity revealed a lot about the cooked beans for the fool to eat, belly full and started stooling here and there to dirty the surrounding of good faith about the creator, Allah and His chosen religion for mankind.

U mean your composite Allah. A god that's made up of parts.
Imagine worshipping a composite being, someone derived from parts.
Otherwise U have to explain to me why I cannot worship the shin of Allah.

Abeg Canada should calm down. Maybe if it was 10 yrs ago when Canada was Canada, I will accept the deportation order as genuine and in good faith.

But Canada of today is turning to dugbe market with all sorts of character entering. In the last 5 yrs, over 4 million Indians alone entered Canada. Some areas in greater Toronto now is no different from new Delhi.

What will deportation of 4 people change when almost 1 million immigrants enter every year. What will their removal change.

Even white Canadians are leaving canada due to housing and cost of living crisis.

Nothing special about Canada anymore, the special effect is gone. They should allow them to stay.

Qasim6:
You can keep deceiving yourself.
Which non biblical scholars? Do you mean the forged Testimonium Flavianum?

Ask Bart Erhman.

Hahaha this one think our only historical evidence of Jesus is Josephus. U are far behind, the rest don overtake u.

Tacitus a Roman senator spoke about Jesus
Mara bar sarapion a stoic philosopher spoke about Jesusin 73 AD.
Pliny and Suetonius both Roman historian spoke about Jesus.
Thallus a samaritan historian wrote about the events that happened the night Jesus was crucified.
Roman emperor Trajan wrote about Jesus Christ.
Phlegon of Tralles AA historian wrote about Jesus.
Both the Jewish Talmud and Mishnah wrote about Jesus.
Even Josephus wrote about the death of James the just the brother of Jesus Christ.

There's a reason all biblical scholars including atheist admits Jesus of Nazareth is a real person.

We don't need a dubious character in a desert forging the works of our apocryphal gospels to attest to historicity of Jesus.

When I say U guys know nothing about Christianity, U came here foaming in the mouth. Now see how U thoroughly embarrassed yourself.

I'm still waiting for my answer.
Why can't I worship the shin of Allah?

Ohyoudidnt:
Is it not true that at the First Council of Nicaea in 325AD, the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, meeting in ancient Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey), was called by the emperor Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, who presided over the opening session and took part in the discussions.? He hoped a general council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being.

Is it not true that the emphasis that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God and gained popularity across the Eastern and Western Roman empires was declared a heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325?

Is it untrue that this council of Nicaea condemned Arius as a heretic and affirmed through a creed that the Son is “of one substance with the Father,” establishing orthodox Christian belief?

Was it declared in the scriptures prior to this tine that Jesus is of the same substance as God?

Only God knows what bible this guy reads.

John 1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1.18

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

The question is do U have this verses in your bible. Note I said bible not Koran. Don't confuse the 2.

Qasim6:
If you take your time and study how we received all the information about Jesus prior to Islam, you can't help but think

'why is everything messed up like this?'
Except if you are not been truthful with yourself.

From Matthew that witnessed the events first hand copying Marks(a disciple of Peter) to write his gospel.

Jesus claiming he was only sent to the Israelites then Paul claiming he met Jesus and he is apostle to the gentiles then start contradicting Jesus, To the extent there was bad belle between him and the original apostles.

If you compare the first of the Canonical gospel to be written ( Mark) to the last (John), you will know something is no right.

To some people sitting down 300yrs later voting on divinity of Jesus.

And you expect me to not think something is wrong smwhere?

If not for Islam, I would have doubt if Jesus of Nazareth truly walk on this earth.

We don't need Islam to confirm jesus walk on this earth.
Non biblical scholars confirmed Jesus Christ walked on this earth.

Answer my question, can I worship the shin of Allah?

Qasim6:
U don come with your
"you Muslim don't understand "
"You Muslim are parroting bla bla bla"

The good for nothing Bishops were sitting down in whopping 300 yrs after Jesus left the scene to discuss Jesus nature, they even voted on the subject to reach a conclusion. Why did they need to vote if it is crystal clear in the scripture?

Do you think you will be trinitarian if that council did not take place in history?

Do you think the original apostles believe Jesus is some part of God?

Show me Tawhid in your Koran.

Are U not the one I asked if I could worship the shin of Allah and I'm yet to get a response.

Ohyoudidnt:
Arianism, a Christological position in Christianity, was proposed by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius in the early 4th century. It emphasized that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God and gained popularity across the Eastern and Western Roman empires. However, it was declared a heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325.

Beliefs of Arianism

Arianism is often viewed as a form of Unitarian theology that prioritizes God’s unity over the concept of the Trinity. Arius believed in the uniqueness of God as self-existent and immutable, contrasting this with the Son who was considered a created being without self-existence. This belief led to controversies regarding the nature and divinity of Jesus Christ.

The Council of Nicaea condemned Arius as a heretic and affirmed through a creed that the Son is “of one substance with the Father,” establishing orthodox Christian belief. Despite this, conflicts persisted for years, with various councils and emperors supporting different factions within Christianity.

@Gaskiyamagana,Explore2xmore,Sirtee15,Advocatejare,Dsinner,Tenq,Mightysparrow,Homesttalk21,Antiislam,Antichristian,MrPresident,Rightchannel,Kobojunkie, Greenholics,Malcolm10x

The problem with Muslims apologetics and also atheist is u guys don't understand Christianity and U don't care to research about it.
All U do is parrot ignorant statements passed around in our mosques or on internet.
Now if I ask U what is the trinity as defined and established by the council of nicea, U will fail woefully. The creed is online for all to see but if I ask U to define the trinity in creed, na something else U go talk.

The trinity in the Nicene creed is exactly as taught by Jesus and exactly what is in the old and new testament. Nothing was removed or added.
You are the one with a problem.
U don't believe in arainism because the theology declared jesus is divine, so debating it with U is useless.

gaskiyamagana:
Shin of Allah is your problem but the one who FOUGHT WITH BIBLICAL GOD is not an issue. Anyway, no wonder, as a NUISANCE ON NAIRALAND TO ALLAH AND ISLAM, one should not expect less from you.
Many things about your biblical God are their, you kept in the cooler of hypocrite and became MAD about Allah, I pity the one arguing with you.

Yes, shin of Allah is my problem because it proves Allah has parts.
If the shin of Allah is not Allah but it's with Allah, then it begs the question what is it?
According to the Hadith, Believers will only recognise Allah when they see his shin.
That means the shin of Allah is part of Allah.
If the shin is part of Allah, then your Allah has parts i.e he's made up of parts.
Your Allah is a composite being, He's made up of parts.
You Muslims are worshipping a god made of parts.
And if Allah is made of parts, then he cannot be one because he can be divided.

Ohyoudidnt:
Reservations to a rather uncouth response. I gave you a detailed explanation.

I checked your initial response but didn't see my answer.
Will believers see the shin of Allah with Allah or separate from Allah on judgement day.

Allah has 99 attributes which are eternal but they separate from Allah.

Is the shin of Allah separate from Allah like his attributes or the shin is with Allah.

Sahih bukhari said when Allah appears to the believers on judgement day, they won't recognise him. But when Allah reveals his shin and show the believers, they will recognise Allah and bow.

That's why I'm asking, will the shin of Allah be seen with Allah or separate from him.

Ohyoudidnt:
In your living and learning you know very well that Allah is the one, omnipotent, omnipresent God that creates and sustains all for all eternity.
Allah is absolute, eternal, misbegotten and non begetting. There is nothing or anyone that can be likened or compared to him.

The Shin or other attributes of Allah are not like that of man. You don't worship Allah in essence but Allah himself. The awe, respect and love of Allah is what is behind bowing when only the shin is revealed.

Believers will recognize Allah through the sign of the revealed shin . It is essential to understand that in Islamic theology, Allah is beyond human comprehension, and any descriptions or attributes mentioned in the Quran or Hadith are symbolic and not to be taken literally.

The concept of worshipping Allah’s shin in this context symbolizes recognition and submission to the ultimate authority and power of Allah. It signifies acknowledging His sovereignty and majesty. The mention of prostration before Allah’s shin represents complete humility and obedience to the Creator.

Thank U very much for your boldness in answering the question.
But I'm not interested in your sermon. Keep it for the mosque.
Now that U have answered the question, your response leads to bigger problem. Remember we dealing with Tawhid here.

Is the shin of Allah separate from Allah or is with Allah.

Are we going to see the shin of Allah separate from him or we will see the shin with Allah.


The will believers recognised Allah when they see his shin. Is that shin one with Allah or separate from him.