In all,
The restlessness of some will continue as long as no one says he/she is forced to pay tithe, on this forum.
Please live and let live, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Wordtalk, Debosky, Zikky and Nuclearboy have more or less summed it up. 

Enigma:

^^^ Thanks for the advice on malice - BUT point a mirror at yourself, look at your snide posts not just on this thread but similarly in the past then ask who is keeping malice?

You are welcome.
Really, I make snide commnents? Oh I am sorry if any comment I made to you was interpreted as snide. If you interprete keeping silence to questions that have either been answered or don't make sense to me as malice, then so be it. It is your opinion, I won't change it.

Allegation again. You said you were 'ignoring my post if I noticed', did I ever tell you same? It's a forum now, no need to act up.
Since you have a strengthened theory I wonder why you are still so restless. Tithe is biblical and people are tithing.

Enigma:

^^^ Look I don't have time for you --- you didn't notice I simply ignored your posts. In the past. did you not similarly run, avoid, evade etc just like your two champions Joagbaje and wordtalk? They are bigger fry than you --- so go siddon. 

Well too bad, you should have kept ignoring it,
No one ran, it was questions in this fashion you asked, questions with no meaning,
Whatever you feel, don't let bitterness reign in your heart and stop keeping malice.
It's childish

Oh and also on this page alone, it shows all the baseless allegations you made that when you were challenged you started acting non-chalant. Did you respond when you were put in the spot?
You are not looking for anyone to agree with you now, so why are you still trying to chum up to Debosky?

@ Enigma,
I wonder why after saying the below, you have still not allowed the matter to rest:

Enigma:

I have established what I need to establish on this thread - for myself and no one else needs to agree with me.

Looking for who to agree with you?

Also wonder why you have become garyarnolds spokes person? Does the question you asked even make sense to you?

Enigma:

@ debosky

One question: do you reaaally think garyarnold believes people should be tithing from trash can?

Garyarnold has not withdrawn the statement, but you expect someone else to know if he reaaally meant that?
Are you garyarnold?

@debosky,
I think you are right.
It is more of an 'I won' 'You lost' mentality.
We should not allow personal sentiments becloud our judgement.

@wordtalk,
You are relentless,  Welldone.
I told you that they have a mindset and they do everything to wear you out.


@OP,
It is obvious even to a baby that the allegations from those against tithing have no basis and hence they never had a good come-back when challenged. They keep running away and shifting positions.

As far as I can see, those against tithing are unsure in their hearts and are seeking every imaginable way to back up themselves.
Trying all they can to show they tithe without wanting to use the word.
I really wonder why they cannot leave those that give their 10 percent in peace and go ahead to give their 'far, far, far more than 10%'. This is something the Pharisees would have said. Straining at a gnat.

Funnily, there is no problem with tithing, what we have are people who have a problem with tithe.

@ogajim,
you have a point.
Same way one wonders why people will fight over whether tithe is an essential part of giving or not.
Giving is a Christian value.

@garyarnold,
i think i get your point.
However, you remind me of a doctor trying to 'sell' a bitter pill to a child, you call it it's synonym because it makes it more appealing and magical and this actually takes away the child's fear of this pill.
Many people get turned off by having to budget so you just repackaged it in fanciful wrapping and 'sold' it to them.
You sold them the same budget but gave it a 'fly name'.
It's all good.
Afterall, you removed the 'budget' fear and made it fun, so it worked for them (as you claimed).

In summary, i get the jist. Financial planning is 'sugar-coated' budgeting.

@garyarnold,
i am yet to get a response to my question. Take your time however.

Your certifications are note-worthy but it's hard to believe you even taught a christian class on financial planning without budgeting.
Did you happen to ever quote Luke 14:28-32 with emphasis on vr 31 where you can see a clear case of budgeting. The 1st 2 verses has something to do with financial planning.
Do not blame us if you do not like to use words like tithe and budget because I think this is where the real issue lies.
I just imagine you substitute other words for it.
However, it will be nice to have some learning on how financial planning, without budgeting, works.

garyarnold:

I will continue to encourage that Christians avoid using the word tithe when they are giving.  At the same time, I will continue to encourage Christians to be generous givers.  By generous, I mean according to what they have.  For most, I believe they (me included) can and should be giving far more than a mere ten percent of their income.

I really wonder what message you are passing across. You and your ilk have issues with Christians than give ten percent, give offerings (since it still received in the church), give firstfruits and yet these same Christians help the poor, give to welfare, donate to one cause or the other which is obviously far more than 10% of their earnings yet you still say Christians should be giving 'far more than a mere ten percent'.
A 'mere ten percent' that you have virtually been throwing a fit over. I do not get you. This 'mere ten percent' is called tithe.
So are you saying Christians should give more than a 'mere tithe' now? Let us get you straight.

oluwabamis:

Talk of blessing from God I have enjoyed it more than the titters. I got promoted this year, got a salary increase that tithers didnt get. The proponents of tithe are those who benefit from it, when they say it's for your good they mean just the opposite.
If you want to pay your tithe, go ahead you still get blessed for it. It's your money afterall, and you have a right to use it the way you deem fit. But God didn't command xtians to tithe.

I think you should be more concerned with 'is this the level God wants me to be at this point?' It's hilarious comparing yourself with 'tithers' because you got a promotion and a salary increase. Possibly it's even the tither that is paying you that salary increase.
Seriously, this statement does not cut it at all.
You should not be measuring yourself up in that light and make such general statements.

@garyarnold,
2 Chronicles 31:1-12 clearly shows there was a storehouse built in the temple where the offerings and tithes were stored up.

What about offering? So when you give offering in church, you give it to your pastor and not God?

@Wordtalk,
I have actually had a discourse on other threads with them and I try to respect others opinions.
If you have strong reasons from the bible to prove you should not tithe, then way to go. If you have strong reasons from the bible to tithe then go ahead.
What I find strange is saying tithe is unbiblical/unscriptural then coming back and saying you have nothing against tithe per se or start claiming you tithe. Most of the reasons I see against tithe are actually excuses.

If you believe the bible says you should tithe, a pastor's way of preaching it should not stop you from fulfilling what you believe biblically.
Will you say you sinned because you were tempted to sin?
Where is your gift of choice?

Anyway, there is more to Christian living that all these debates.

'Edited'

Interesting read so far.

garyarnold:

If anyone can claim they tithe because they give a tenth of their income to the church, I can claim I tithe if I give a tenth of anything I have to the church.

I just had to comment on this statement and another you made. It seems like you are trying your best to show you tithe, I really do not get you. You claim you are against tithe on one hand then on another you say you can 'claim I tithe'.
What really are you trying to claim? In another post you said you can go tell people or your pastor that you tithe.
It seems you think you want to tithe cos you want to prove a point.

Meanwhile, as I once said, it's you guys who do not tithe that are making a big deal about tithing and straining so much to justify your actions. God gave us all freewill, it is not by force.
Cheers.

Thanks for this piece, Frosbel.
It's truly reflective.

I guess to ascertain that the parents have given their blessing first before the church. It's in order.
The family has to okay the marriage as such the formality of a traditional wedding first.

@OP,
Your child will be a british citizen by descent if born outside the UK as seen below:

'A British citizen otherwise than by
descent, can automatically pass on
British citizenship to a child born outside
the UK. You can be a British Citizen
otherwise than by descent by:
Birth;
Registration;
Naturalisation;
Adoption.
A British citizen by descent is a person
born outside the UK and is acquired if
one or both parents are British citizens.
This means that you cannot
automatically pass on British citizenship
to any child who is born abroad.'

If you have your baby in Nigeria, the baby will be a british citizen by descent, if you have the baby in UK, the baby will be a british citizen otherwise than by descent.


However I advise you process for your british passport asap and i hope u get your documents needed soon.

@OP,
You have a choice to make. Stand up and make that choice and be ready to bear the consequences.
The trouble going on in the north seems to be escalating, these Boko Haramist are killing their own people and you are talking of going to serve there? Who do you think will save you if they decide to target the camp? They might, they might not, however, will you ever know?

The funny thing is that if anything happens, the government might actually say that those posted to the north had the option to reject it from the onset but they went ahead as patriots who believe in one Nigeria.

The government is obviously not doing anything about it, all of you posted to Borno state, will you also just 'siddon look'? Whose life is at stake?
It's a no-brainer.

Baba Junior,
thats a dashing lad you have there.
Congrats.

Just exercise patience for a few more months, you will hear dada till you tire.

God bless him.

Classic:

Judges 7:22

'and blew
their trumpets again. As they did, the
LORD made the enemy soldiers pull out
their swords and start fighting each
other'.

They meant it for evil but just see what it eventually turned out to be.

Nice to see calm descend on the thread. Everyone must have learnt a lesson or two.

Also good to see mature discussions and discussants.

This thread and forum should have been for our greater good.

Surprisingly alot of things some people tagged as heresies had adequate scriptural backing provided.
It's very funny when someone makes apost and someone says he is lying or twisting stuff when it is in plain view and can be countered responsibly with scriptures.
At the end, everyone is entitled to his view since they have a scripture back up.

However, insults and so much acid is flung all over the place? Is it needed.

Pity now that the person claiming victim is trying to seek audience with someone he has pissed off with insults.
What goes around does come around.

Hmmmmn, last ditch attempts to at least save face with someone. Despite warnings from 'the gang', he says he did not want to be pushed.
I simply wonder what was pushing him since evryone had told him not to bother.

The 'great revelation' turned out to be nothing afterall.
The mail is self explanatory, however, i am not surprised to se how it was twisted.

I was inspired by the message, posted and that was it, i referred to just Jo. I do not think you saw me post in argument with anyone.
You however misinterpreted that to mean running off. Ok that was funny.

I leave you with this, ponder on your posts, you seem to talk more of 'Oyaks, CEC' than you do the name of Jesus.
You have a mindset of CEC, Oyaks and same for most of your crew. You guys mention their name more than anyone else you claim attend their churches.
It tells a lot.

Thanks for confirming your intentions.

Also thanks for directing people to the thread so that they can learn that Christians can pray directly to the Father in Jesus name. Jesus himself said so. He does not have to take your prayers to the Father, just do it in His name.

As usual you 'cec'-glazed eyes will not make you see beyond yourself. You miscontrue everything.

I can see you had nothing to say against the scriptures quoted on the thread because they are the word.

Another proof you are very petty. You have been hanging onto that thread since all cos I said the message is not for milk-drinkers without reference to anyone.

However guilty conscience made you acclaim yourself so.
Bravo!

@Enigma,
i a honoured you had to ask thrice then.
The question has a source right? Why don't you get the answer from there and quit trying to get my attention.
You already have a mindset about me, I wonder what esle you are looking for.

Now we get the reason why despite entreaties from friends, all the vitriol, insults, private discussion information had to be released:


Some 'boy' was feeling ignored and needed Jo's attention.

Well he finally got it, but I call this pyrrhic victory.

@Enigma,
You have such strong held assumptions about some things and I think you should not blame me for that.

I respected your understanding of that scripture and told so and what I understood from it based on the bible and the best you could say is that I should study the passage independent from ROR? It goes to show how subjective you are.

If any scripture that does not go in line with what you believe in comes from ROR, then it shows you cannot seem to see past CE.
Too bad.

Enigma:

^^^ And once you have Joagbaje's or Oyakhilome's interpretation, that is the end of the matter?

Ofcourse not.
DId I or did I not show you my interpretation from the bible or did I tell you Joe's interpretation was right?

I think you should stop making everything about Jo or Pastor Chris and respond to other posters who might have another interpretation as should be.

Please for once make it about the scripture.

@Enignma,
Thanks.
I see and understand the scripture pasted. However, I see there has been an interpretation above.
For me, you have given me a scripture-backed statement as requested.

I also see that scripture as;

Hebrews 9:24-26:

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

and also knowing that God calls those things which are not as though they were basically beacuse He had chosen Christ:

1 peter 1:20:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
However, I still appreciate. It is an interesting discourse.

Enigma:

^^^ Was Christ not slain before the foundation of the world?

Was he? That is why I asked you, you said it. I only asked for scripture for my learning.