Enigma:

Easy: Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. In addition to what I posted before, ponder also:

2 Timothy 1

Titus 3
Surely, you are not going to say that Abraham "worked" for his own righteousness, for his own salvation

@Enigma,
Did you really mean the bolded? Please show me where it was stated in the bible for my learning, that was Christ was slain before the world was founded.

How were people in the OT, before the law, known as righteous? For Abraham, He believed God, there was really no mention of works. He believed God.
For Enoch, it shows he 'walked' with God not 'worked' with or for God.

Enigma:

Ephesians 2

@Enigma,
Thanks for the maturity of posting the scripture. There are actually a lot of other scriptures in the New Testament that shows that we can receive the righteousness of God as a gift through His Son Jesus Christ.

My question to Nuclearboy was how did the 3 men he mentioned have this 'gift' when it was clearly stated that the gift is received through Jesus Christ. I quoted the scriptures as to why they were seen as righteous but Nuclearboy mixed it up and turned on himself.

There is a clear difference between the two and this was what I needed to understand.
However, not surprised he acted as he is known to act in the forum. Very immature.

nuclearboy:


@Snowwy:

Obviously, speaking and writing fair english is not reason enough to assume intellect. I apologize for crediting you with higher than above par CE intellect and will forthwith place you on the same pedestal as newmi.

I did not expect more than this from you. I can see it is a maturity issue.

nuclearboy:

Another daft post - Does God look upon iniquity? Read the Bible for an answer or just remember why God forsook Christ on the cross

So if God walks with you, you are righteous, No? Since He cannot even look at it or you think He walked with Enoch whist blind-folded?

Is there any man that is righteous of his own "works" or attempts? What does the Bible say about man's righteousness?

So if God looks upon these AND even lives with them (or where would you say God took them to? Hellfire??), they must be righteous, isn't it?

And if NO MAN can be righteous of his own works, then it is "imputed" to them, isn't it?

By who? Oyakilome? Or Revd King?

I wonder how you reason sometimes.
My post above was based on scriptures as seen below.

Gal 3:6 - Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness
Heb. 11:5 - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God

You are yet to tell me where you saw the scripture that said they were righteous because God gave them a gift of righteousness. You are fighting so vehemently for a logic you reasoned. Is pleasing God and believeing God of which they were seen as righteous, the same thing as them being righteous because it was a gift of God?

Please post maturedly as it is very obvious whose post is daft here.

@Nuclearboy,
you say you know me? i doubt that very much. You just have an impression of me and even the impression is wrong.

You just painted a scenario above of what happens when the 'CE' group attacks those against them. Well I cannot speak for them.
But one thing I know you and your crew do is to call on each other when one of the 'CE' members post something.
Your crew actually make posts like 'where is so so and so when you need them', 'let so so and so come o'.
There was even a time I made a post that you guys remind me of wolves.
There was a time you and your crew said something about me arguing alone of which I responded that I cannot be afraid when I stand on the word.
Does that sound familiar?

I am just surprised that now you painted this scenario like its not what you guys do.

I stand for the truth, backed by God's word.

@Nuclearboy,
Abraham believed God and it was 'imputed' (reckoned, counted) unto him for righteousness.
Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him.
Elijah was a great prophet of God who God used and he was taken up to heaven.
I am yet to come across the bible passage that says they were righteous because it was a gift from God.
If there is no scripture like that, seeing you just used your head, then it means you gave your own human knowledge and not bible knowledge.
So is this not what you often say MOGs do?
I leave it at that.

@aletheia,
Does he 'twist' scriptures or gives his interpretation based on scriptures?

The above scriptures he posted on salvation in OT and NT, don't look like 'twisted' IMHO.

Or do you mean the scriptures show your interpretation to be twisted?

There are two parts to my last post.

You may comment on the second one if that is a lie. I wonder why you are feeling bitter.
As if one has to be a CE member to understand a truth when spoken.

@Nuclearboy,
kindly show us in the bible where it was said that the righteousness of (Edited) Abraham, Elijah and Enoch was a gift from God as you just stated.

@Joe,
Thanks a lot for posting these scriptures.
They are deep indeed.

@NLMediator,
we learn everyday o.
One thing about Jo is that it seems he studies the bible a lot as he is never ashamed when he has to proof some of his statements.
That cannot be said about a number of his critics which is unfortunate.
When he quotes scriptures, they say he is following man.
Its laughable.
To me his has put to shame those that castigated him on some of his statements.

@Frosbel,
take a chill pill.
You posted a topic and because 24 mins after there was no response, you started another tirade.
A number of people read using their phones, they might not have been able to watch the video.
Just try and be selfless.
It is not every topic that you might get a response but it doesn't mean people did not visit it.
Do you pray for people to be touched when you make an opening post to preach or you do it to prove a point? Please do the former.

This is so inspiring and thought-provoking.
I hope it is the same for others too.

Thanks for posting this video. God bless you.

brogabriel:

Watch out for part 2 of this teaching on tithe,  And do not forget to Join other Christians taking Bible Quiz by SMS and GET PAID N5,000/$33 PER CORRECT ANSWER TO A BIBLE QUIZ EVERY WEEK? NO RANDOM SELECTION, ANYONE WITH THE CORRECT ANSWER IS A WINNER! FOR MORE DETAILS, TEXT YOUR FULL NAME, "EBQ", LOCATION, PHONE NUMBER AND EMAIL ADDRESS TO : +2348094996656;08091514935. THANKS AND REMAIN BLESSED!
[/b][/size][/color]

Interesting, please who would raise the 'PAYMENT' you would be 'PAYING' those that get a correct answer?
I am actually wary of things like this.
You may also like to quote where it was stated in the bible that we could answer bible questions for a gain.

How is that?

Read II Chronicles 31:4-12:

Excerpts below:

4He ordered the people living in Jerusalem to give the portion due the priests and Levites so they could devote themselves to the Law of the Lord.
5As soon as the order went out, the Israelites generously gave the firstfruits of their grain, new wine, oil and honey and all that the fields produced. They brought a great amount, a tithe of everything.
11Hezekiah gave orders to prepare storerooms in the temple of the Lord, and this was done.
12Then they faithfully brought in the contributions, tithes and dedicated gifts.

Is there still an issue?

Malachi 3:10:
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

From scripture, that relates to the tithe for those working in God's house.

snthesis:

3 tithes = to 30% of your harvest/salary,

yawa gas

The tenth you give in church does not stop you from helping the needy in the first place or enjoying from your own increase now.
If you look carefully that was what the tithes were basically about.

I take this as you making a joke of it. Yawa no gas o

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

Since preaching about this has not helped. It will be good if the church buildings that have A.Cs should have such A.Cs on full blast.
No one will need to preach on it again.

Joagbaje:


A man of God is only accountable to God who called him, not faceless critics.

True word.
These people who were fed were blessed. I am sure some souls were saved.
Giving is a life-style, I say again, may God bless them.

@snthesis,
Yes there were actually 3 tithes.
Take time to read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy 14.
After that then check out the the scriptures on tithes as quoted below with highlights.

Deut. 14:22-27:
22  Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23  And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24  And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25  Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26  And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27  And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

This was obviously tithe to be eaten by the individual, his family and also the poor, levites etc and it was to be taken to a place where God has chosen to place his name.
If the place was far? That means the place could change from time to time and this was obviously not at the temple.
This tithe was for the people to learn to fear God.


Deut. 14:28-29
28  At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29  And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

This tithe was laid up within the peoples gates for the poor, levites also, fatherless, stranger etc so that they could come and eat within the peoples gates and be staisfied.
This was so that the Lord might bless the works of their hands.


Now in the book of Numbers, see the scriptures on tithes:

Numbers 18:21 & 24
21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation
24But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

This tithe was brought to the house of the Lord as an offering. This is the one that was given to the Levites specifically. This was the portion due them.

I hope you understand better now.

@Frosbel,
The spiritual journey is not a joke like you said and that is why we are to focus on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. He is the focus.


The world is corrupt but in all this who do you believe? If you believe Jesus Christ, then you will be steadfast, unmoveable and always abound in the work of the Lord. On judgement day, I believe all our actions, choices will be based on what we chose to do.


On your friend, she should not allow her faith to shake as her faith should be in Christ Jesus not in man. She is to honour leaders as was stated in the bible.
Honour and Faith are two different things.



@Sweetnecta
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the goodnews of Jesus Christ.
The gospels according to Matthew, Mark, luke and John is the goodnews according to each of these disciples.
This means that they were giving accounts according to what they saw individually of our Lord Jesus Christ,

@Frosbel,
The gospel of Christ is already genuine. I wonder what you mean?

Funnily you have this very wrong notion that everyone depends on pastors to interpret scriptures to them. I really wonder where you get this from and it is on this that you seem to hinge a lot of your posts.

Yes, Pastors preach and quote scriptures and interprete and that is where we too chould come in and study ourselves with the help of the holy spirit just like the berean Christians.

So I am truly baffled you have given me an account of someone who heard from a number of pulpit messages and then you now conclude that this is the same way everyone has heard it and thus it is wrong.

The bible is there for us to study and the Holy Spirit to interprete to us.

Just state what the bible says.

Well done.

frosbel:

another one for Snowyy who has accused me of ONLY posting certain TRUTHS.

@Frosbel,
Nice article again, it seems I can term this under:

1. Work 'Now' done to prove a point.

Thanks for the message though.

frosbel:

^^^^^


Another LIE.

You have IGNORED ALL the posts on holiness and love , I will search for them and bring them back to the front page.

It confirms that you have no interest in living HOLY because these articles were written and no one made any comments, some because they agree with the content of truth but others because they have itching ears.

The Truth must be exposed in LOVE.

I am happy you can confirm I HAVE NEVER Used FOUL Language or abused anyone in this religious forum.

@Frosbel,
Who is lying? I said I am yet to come across any thread where you preached the gospel.
Do you even read my posts at all? You are quite hasty you know.

Tooo bad since that is your opinion.
Since no one seemed to comment on the holiness you were preaching then you started criticisms? I guess you are happier now with the response.
Well go read threads on holiness here. People hardly comment.
I read quite a lot on NL and I am blessed.
I am yet to get the head or tail of your threads sha. You just go on and on of the evils. To me, that is not a gospel.

frosbel:

^^^



What baffles me is why people are not satisfied with simple gospel truth.

All we need is our bible, a sincere heart and obedience to GOD.

Instead we have people twisting God's word to suit their purposes, even in the face of glaring truth they will not humble themselves. They add candles, incense, Mary, holy water, word of faith, spiritual laughter and all manner of madness to the gospel such that people are turned off from repenting of their sins and following Jesus.



Instead they attack the messenger so that the message will stop.

This is what God's word says about such people.


"Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things." - Philippians 3:19

@Frosbel,
You are the one going about attacking people.

Please when will you start preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ? We are tired of all these unedifying and unnecessary threads full of false prophets, catholism etc. That is not the way to win people to Christ.

I am yet to come accross one thread where you shared the undiluted word of Christ, the true gospel of Jesus which is full of peace, joy, love and direction.

It seems you possess some substance, please let us hear you out. Shed the light of Christ.

snthesis:

thanks snowwy, but as i stated earlier, i'm not against giving tithe, the notion i had prior to reading Deut 14: 22-29 was that 100% of tithe goes to the church/priest, but it is clearly stated that it shouldnt be like that, but from the passage you quoted, it also clearly states "all" the the tithes goes to the levites- i'm wondering if "all" represents 100% of the tithes or perhaps it represents tithes from everybody i.e nobody is exempted from tithing 

There are two categories in the scripture you quoted and how that was administered and one in the scripture in Numbers that I quoted and how that was also administered.
The tithe in Numbers is the tenth which God said is for the Levites for their work. I relate it to be the one God was referring to in the Leviticus scripture.

dare2think:

@ Frosbel

We all have the right to believe what we want to believe.  I dont feel you should "victimise" his person for his beliefs. (However strange it may be to you).

Yes he has a different approach to christianity, Infact we all have different views on how we feel religion should be best served. I feel continuous questioning and debates serves more as source of education. I disagree a lot with JO, but I still feel he has a right to hold his views. We must challenge each other's views potently in order to ascertain our understanding of the subject matter.

@ Jo

Dude, hold whatever views you feel is right to your understanding, I only beg you to have a more open mind and willing to take to corrections. Nobody knows it all, Including the "MOGS".  I also implore you not to put all your faith in men (Chris and other mogs). We are all of God. Those Men you choose to adulate can fail you at anytime. They''ll choose their family before you.
Please realise that this is a very big and diverse world, and nobody holds the monoply to Knowledge and wisdom. We all should learn from each other and love should transcend beyond religion and doctrine.
As I always say don't expect to be un-challenged in your views.

I look forward to our next debate.

@newmi

dude, stop spreading germs with your spits. (It's unhygienic)

@dare2think,
Thanks for this write up.
When I saw this topic then i knew that frosbel has completely left the purpose for which Christ called him.


@Frosbel
It is a great shame that you have to stoop to the level of raising a topic like this. Please of what benefit is this? Do you think Christ will commend you?
I guess you must be happy by the pats on the back that you have been receiving from your fellows.

I am yet to see and understand the gospel you are preaching. All I have seen so far is quoting articles from here and there which is fine. However, what are you bringing to the table to resolve this issues?
Everyone can criticise as it is the easiest aspect but not everyone can edify and be a leader.
I see you in the former and a lot of the other critics here.

They hardly give advice and when they do it's a one liner after pages of criticisms.

Contructive criticisms and solid advice is better.

Wow, RCCG keep matching on. The CAN sunday is done once a month on a large scale to help the needy.
God bless them and grant them grace to do more.

MrBible:

@snowwy
This is a job for a marriage or relationship counsellor, pastors are well trained in collecting tithes and not for mariages or relationships. If they can afford it they should go and see a marriage or relationship counsellor.

Ok. That is an opinion.


However, I must say this is one of the funniest responses I have seen.

Edit: I thought you were trying to save them some parting of cash.

KunleOshob:

@snowwy
Are you saying you did not read the daft comment were 'azibalua' was asking if she had her pastor's consent before they started dating

Oh, what is Azibalua's statement you were referring to? Azibalua made a post, Joagbaje made a post.
Sorry about that.


The OP did not seem to mind though.


Anyways, you did not advice still. That was my issue with your comment and it has become like a norm.
Happy posting though

MrBible:

nowwyYou don’t have any objection when you see a secular doctor, get on a plane that is piloted by a secular pilot, get in a car driven by a secular driver, attend lectures given by a secular lecturer and the list goes on!! Don’t you see that you are just a hypocrite.  You think the pastor too will not be interested in his false tithes, first fruit, middle fruit, last fruit and love offering.

@MrBible,
You are the one that has the objections now. You gave advice saying she should go to a marriage counsellor because you say the Pastor will take tithes. I meant that will the marriage counsellors not demand a fee too? How did I object here? Do I need to break it down again, Kai, i don tire for you o.

It is you getting worked up now and criticising left, right and centre. It is you making the whole discussion about tithe already.
Sorry, do not be bitter.

KunleOshob:

@snowwy
If you read my comments well you would have observed that it was the 'consent' issue I criticised. Anybody is free to ask any more experienced person for counselling whether pastor or not. But clearly a pastor's consent is not needed to enter into a relationship.

Do you think i did not read your comments well before posting?
Please show me where the OP said she was looking for her pastor's consent? Or Joagbaje's?

Also, typical of you, you had nothing to offer the OP as per advice. You came here 'hounding' Joe as usual. Keep up 'your good work'.