₦airaland Forum

Lol, I like that one.

River wey forget im source - e go soon dry up!

@Bobbyaf,

One other thing: there's no doubt that you're reharshing debates here that have already been dealt with in the other thread on the same subject. It's quite amusing that you'd want to do that yet again, when answers have been adduced to most of your queries already; while on the other hand noticing that you've not offered answers to questions presented to you.

I hope that this trend to reharsh debates would not be further promoted; so that the discussions may thereby be progressed.

Cheers.

Hi TV01,

TV01:
I hope this isn't an attempt to slip away?

No, I wasn't slipping away. The discussion was spiralling out of context and that's why I chilled out until such a time when it would be more genial for us to hold a discussion, rather than disaffections.

I'll see how the week goes. Cheers.

dezi:
Ps 121
i lift up my eyes to the hills
where does my help come from?

Beautiful. A brother shared that verse as being rather a challenging and inspiring question rather than a conclusion. The point was that the Psalmist was not looking to the hills for help. Sometimes, a few of us miss this point when we read it in our common English Bibles as:

vs. 1 - "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help." (KJV)

The brother went on to show that Godly people look to the LORD for help (as the Psalmist points out in the verse after vs. 1); and again as we find in Jeremiah 3:23 --

"Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains:
truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel."

@ajadrage,

I feel you. Sometimes one comes away wonderingabout the emphasis these days on money. Like a visiting pastor preached today in my friend's church: 'When was the last time we ever heard the message of the Cross? When was the last time we talked about true servanthood to God and put our hearts in the uncomfortable zone of the less privileged?'

I noticed one of the 'ogas' began to shit in his chair and was stylishly gesticulating to him as if to say, 'Cut it short!'

On the whole, I was glad the service was short and straight to the point; especially the fact that it challenged me personally.

@cute-ass,

[quote author=cute-ass link=topic=60256.msg1210877#msg1210877 date=1182075490]It would indeed be his lucky day, because maybe the mirror in his room isnt functioning properly, atleast he'll do something about that "thing" he calls hair.[/quote]Hehe. . I really pity the gentleman. If only he knew that he was waering a "thing" on his head.

[quote author=cute-ass link=topic=60256.msg1210877#msg1210877 date=1182075490]Culture ke?? What kind of a dirty culture is that??

Abeg if thats what culture is all about?? Then the word should be uprooted from the dictionary. Gosh, what hair!![/quote]Well, I don't know. It's just that some people call it "culture!" Another word may be 'trend'.

firstborn:
faith, why is it a hard thing? why is it that christians find it hard to say what they believe, why is it that christians say one thing and do the opposite. why can't we stand on what we believed instead of on circumstances??

There are several reason why you find it so among many professing Christians. But even so, the same is true among many non-Christians.

Horus:
answer those questions first before i continue,u'll soon know who is really doing the right thing

Let's read from the thread starter.

So, what are you trying to prove?

Lol, @cute-ass,

[quote author=cute-ass link=topic=60256.msg1210869#msg1210869 date=1182074351]Its disgusting, nothing to write home about, the hair lumps look like snakes and pythons, ewwwwwwwwwwww, hmm, very bad hmmm [/quote]Okay, that's one reaction. Others will follow up as well. I just sit here and wonder what his own reaction would be if he read your reaction or even heard the same things said to his hearing. . . lol.

Anyway, he might as well be expressing his culture!

Fluffy:
Oh I am so happy now, I got just what I needed DELIVERENCE

Great to read that you started out seeking help; and then you did find help. That's one of the things that fellowship does - brings you close to the heart of others; and with prayers and support, we find strength to go on.

The one thing I appreciate, though, was the fact you were willing to be honest and forthright about your problems. Reading yours has blessed me; and my prayers that you grow even stronger.

God bless.

Psa 50:5 & 6:

Gather my saints together unto me;
those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

And the heavens shall declare his righteousness:
for God is judge himself. Selah.

This is one Psalm I love when circumstances try to make me miss church. As long as nothing is keeping me from being in His presence on Sunday, i'll be there to count as one of those who has found the perfect Sacrifice -- Jesus Christ (I Pet. 1:18-21).

Lol. . . @gbade. x, here's something satisfy your curiosity about how long or short the hair should be:

I'm also wondering what the reaction of many Christians would be if they went to Church this morning and found that the Christian brother who plays the drums in worship music had "real hair"  -- like these:

  https://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/PhotoFiles/bob_marley.jpg    https://starbulletin.com/1999/07/22/features/artc.jpg



                     Sistas, isn't this cute?

              https://www.howtodread.com/dreads.jpg

Okay, if you got to church today (or even get to church next Sunday) and saw the familiar faces sitting at the drums with the "broderly hairdo", don't panic: they're expressing themselves! 

What I want to understand from the SDAs:

    (1) if the SDAs take their sabbath law from EXODUS, why are they unable to keep it according to its stipulations?

    (2) where is the verse that grants the permission to work and earn salaries on the sabbath day according to the same LAW in Exodus?

    (3) to whom exactly does the sabbath law in the same EXODUS apply - to whom was it given?

@Bobbyaf,

Why is it that up until now you have had no answers to any one of the several questions that were offered you by bari_kade in the other thread?

@davidylan and my Christian bros,

I'd like you to go over to this thread and perhaps see if it would be of any help:

A Call For Understanding To Christians and Muslims
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-60328.0.html#msg1210855

Thank you and God bless.

Perhaps, just perhaps. . .

I'm wondering if it might go a long way to help our mutual understanding and co-existence across board if we apply a little wisdom in relating with people. In the past, I've not always been a vanguard of what I preach to others; but I'm learning everyday, and would like to apply the new things I learn in the wisdom nuggets of others.

My present concern here is this: can we Christians (and others) use this thread to say what we have to say to our Muslim friends and respect their thread (Muslims: What Did You Learn In Islam Today?)

I was meditating on I Cor. 10:32 & 33 this morning and again the words deeply impressed me: "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." I stopped to ask myself if I was actually being careful to obey that verse.

It is in this regard I'd like us to understand that if Muslims have respected the Christian thread (What Did You Learn At Church Today?), the best I could do is extend the same mutual respect to them.

There are many things we could say to one another. If I visit the Muslim thread and would like to respond to something a Muslim has raised there, I'd like to use this thread for my response and then leave a link in the Muslim thread to direct them here to read my concerns about the said issue. Would this be a welcome idea to those of us (Christians especially) who post responses in their thread?


Okay, whatever your persuasion, I just thought to raise this appeal; I think it would go a long way help leave the Muslim thread sanitized. Perhaps, we could view this as a Christian 'Jihad' to extend understanding and mutual respect to them!

God bless you.

Again, God bless una O!

Another Sunday. Let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is. God bless una!

@Kuns,

Kuns:
All the Demonisation are further departing from the True way of the SCRIPTURES.

That should include your denomination, yes?

Kuns:
The catholic church is the mother of christianity and anything that break away from the source is a sect or cult.

That's another departue from the True way of the SCRIPTURES. Please show us where Peter or Paul were Popes.

Kuns:
All denomination are cult , low grade satanism.

That should already mean that even your own sef is part of them.

@Synthase,

Synthase:
He said somewhere concerning free gift that freely you have received freely you should give so, if the man collect money abeg don't blame him afterall the man no use scholarship pass through medical school.

The Sabbath was not set up so man could make salaries from his education for from it!

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205846#msg1205846 date=1181915092]Tithing was commanded by the LAW while Giving is voluntary from the HEART. Is that it?[/quote][quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1206270#msg1206270 date=1181922050]What they tithe was Agricultural products Not money
[10] Nehemiah 10:37-38, "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God and the TITHES of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the TITHES in all the cities of our tillage.And the priest the son of Aaron shall be the Levites, when the Levites take TITHES: and the Levites shall bring up the TITHE of the TITHES unto the house of our God, to the chambers into the treasure house." Again, no mention of money, only agricultural products of the fields, and only the Levites and priests could have access to these tithes and offerings in the house of God.[11] Nehemiah 12:44, "And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the fruitfruits, and for the TITHES, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priests and Levites: for Judah rejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited."Nothing new in this verse that, we have not already discussed here in NAIRALAND.[12] Nehemiah 13:5, 12 "And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the TITHES of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.""Then brought all Judah the TITHE of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries."Same story: ONLY agricultural products, and ONLY to the Levites and priests.[13] Amos 4:4, "Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your TITHES after three years."[14] Malachi 3:8-10, "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings…"[/quote]Now we can see who's been arguing from LAW and narrowing the subject. Just an observation.

Is the LAW the only place where tithes are mentioned? Why is it that many times when people argue against tithes because it MUST always be part of the LAW, they are the very same ones who go back to the LAW to argue the same tithes?

I beg you guys, let's face this issue with open minds and not the sly invectives and back-patting. Leaving what some pastors have said or taught about tithes and giving, and that being the reasons for the disaffections often expressed, could we simply share what each one has come to understand on this subject?

@TV01,

TV01:
As best I try, I cannot reconcile your position with scripture or practice. Maybe I should ask that you show mathematically how this relationship might work? Anyway looking at it from the any side of the equation, you are saying God is bound to respond in kind to a financial offering, making Him less than sovereign. It also smacks of a "cost of everything value of nothing" (aka give-to-get) mindset.

If only you would not be so driven to conclude before examining issues, you would see that my inputs did not represent God as less than sovereign. Besides, as I twice stated earlier to D.baddie, God requires NOTHING; so the question of making Him "bound" to respond to our giving does not arise.

TV01:
May I further ask, is that in relative or absolute terms? So the widow at the treasury, would her reward have been based on her giving all she had (absolute) , or the relative value of what she put in (a pittance)?

TV01, what did you read about my position? I think it really helps to look at what people state rather than argue from default positions of what you think they have said.

TV01:
Likewise you brother Stimulus. Listen carefully, the law was still in effect while the Lord was alive. He lived and satisfied it completely. To advocate breaking the law would have literally aborted his whole mission. He was talking to Jews/Pharisees, who were yet under the law, not Xtians who are liberated from it by His fulfilling it.

Unfortunately, TV01, I have not argued from the LAW. At least, that is clear from my twice repeated question to Hnd-holder: who commanded Abraham to give tithes to Melchizedek?

Further, I queried the idea that anytime the word "tithes" is mentioned, many people often and all think of a command and law and mandate - which in my opinion is quite an unhealthy way to discuss this subject.

The point of my quoting Luke 11:42 and Matt. 23:23 to Hnd-holder is to point out the gist of what the Lord meant there; and the fact that I wasn't using those verses to argue for the binding of any LAW upon the Christian is underscored by my follow-up to D.baddie, where I stated that, "Until you can prove that anyone was bound to take tithing to such proportions as in those verses, then they are equally bound to do the other as well and not neglect them." I hope you can appreciate that clearly now and not misread my position on this subject?

TV01:
I would further exhort you to understand that He went beyond the letter (tithe), to the intent (love).

It's sad that you thought I was confusing the letter and the intent.

TV01:
Money is not required to spread the gospel.
Money is not required to spread the gospel, but may be spent incidentally.

Sorry mate, I can't really stretch further than that )

Aiight - your opinion.

TV01:
although I must confess dressing it up as a worship response - spiri, spiri - morphing it into tithing, and then saying it's not mandatory, but afterall Papa Abraham did it - once to Melchizedek, with what was not his personal wealth or income - is so convoluted, it takes real genius to attempt it

Anything you otherwise dress up in your own verbiage for any giving immediately falls into the same assumptions you express against tithing above. The question one should ask here is this: where in the NT is any Christian mandated or obligated to give ANYTHING?

TV01:
Finally Bro' Stimulus, could you please how a tithe (volutary) differs from simple giving? And why there is a need for any distinction? And since you insist that there is a direct relationship between tithing/giving and blessing, please supply an acturial table detailing input and return so's to enable me to plan my retirement (as a worship reasponse of course ).

First, I didn't see you respond at all to my request - which is quite queer. Is it that you had nothing to show from Scripture at all to my request earlier?

Cheers.

@Hnd-holder,

This is a village in the globe, Explain better by the way what do you mean by nitpicking gnats ?

My appeal: please let's leave the complaints about what people do or say in some churches.

Second, let's consider this subject from all sides instead of narrowing our thoughts to just one text.

Those were what I meant earlier.

Could I also read answers to the questions I asked?

Cheers.

@D.baddie,

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1206030#msg1206030 date=1181918321]To answer that? What's it to you? If you read my post well. You ought to at least have an idea. but don't be so quick to judge if I'm right or wrong. I'm here to seek answers too (just like everyone here, I'm sure).[/quote]Whether or not you were right/wrong, I wasn't judging you; and please try not to be so quick in reading people's posts that way.

Everyone is here to learn; and I hinted it earlier in my teaser. That is why I often ask questions, rather than assume that I already know everything about what anyone is saying!

@Hnd-holder,

Please sir, may I restate my appeal one more time (since your rejoinder does not answer to the first one): could we help this very interesting discussion move forward? It seems to me that most complaints are borne out of nitpicking gnats and failing to look at the bigger picture.

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205969#msg1205969 date=1181917356]TITHE was never met for pastors as the Levites was supposed to use it to feed the poor after the 10% buBurtons offering from the collected tithe.
This is what the then priest avoided, they neither feed the poor nor the mandatory 10% offering,[/quote]Okay. But my question hasn't been answered by that inference. Here again:

[quote author=stimulus link=topic=272.msg1205905#msg1205905 date=1181916209]

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205846#msg1205846 date=1181915092]
Tithing was commanded by the LAW while Giving is voluntary from the HEART. Is that it?[/quote]Could I be correct in saying that you see "tithing" as a command/commandment; while "giving" is voluntary/free-will because it was from the "HEART"??[/quote][quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205969#msg1205969 date=1181917356]In the whole of 66 books of protestant Christian bible this is the only reference for milking willing faithfuls[/quote]Again, how does that answer my question? Rather than complain about what others do, what do you see in God's Word?

         Were tithes offered only in terms of a COMMANDMENT and without the HEART?

         What about other verses that show that the OT saints offered from their HEARTS?

         If tithing was commanded by LAW, then who commanded Abraham to give tithes to Melchizedek?

Thank you again.

@D.baddie,

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205956#msg1205956 date=1181917154]What on earth do you mean by that? I don't follow.[/quote]God does not require, mandate, or command any type of giving from the NT Christian.

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205956#msg1205956 date=1181917154]Your previous lines state otherwise. Are you contradicting yourself?[/quote]Not at all. Until you can prove that anyone was bound to take tithing to such proportions as in those verses, then they are equally bound to do the other as well and not neglect them. Infact, that's one more point that persuades me that God does not require, demand or command anything as far as tithes or giving are concerned.

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205956#msg1205956 date=1181917154]Hey! I'm saying God requires worship. And these lines of yours state the same idea. so why would you try to drop the first line above? It's like you're contradicting yourself while trying to state your argument.[/quote]I still stand to say that I'm not contradicting my points. If you read me so, pardon me; but could you also show me where God REQUIRES my worship? And when you do so, how would you distinguish that from the idea that that a requirement points to an obligation and mandate in my giving?

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205956#msg1205956 date=1181917154]be careful.[/quote]Yes sir, no vex.

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205956#msg1205956 date=1181917154]i still dey enjoy you sha.[/quote]I promise to behave next time!

1 Cor. 11:18-19
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

@Hnd-holder,

Please you guys should help this very interesting discussion move forward. It seems to me that most complaints are borne out of nitpicking gnats and failing to look at the bigger picture.

No offences, but here's a bit of a concern to me:

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205846#msg1205846 date=1181915092]Tithing was commanded by the LAW while Giving is voluntary from the HEART. It that it?[/quote]Could I be correct in saying that you see "tithing" as a command/commandment; while "giving" is voluntary/free-will because it was from the "HEART"??

What is the difference between "tithes" given from the HEART and "giving voluntarily" from the same HEART? Are we forgetting that people also gave from their HEARTS as well - whether tithes or other types of giving?

Exo. 25:2 - "Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering."

1 Chron. 29:9 - "Then the people rejoiced, for that they offered willingly, because with perfect heart they offered willingly to the LORD: and David the king also rejoiced with great joy."

There are several other verses that speak to the same effect; and I'm still wondering why many people feel that everytime a tithe is mentioned in the Bible, it MUST read as a commandment! Let me ask: who commanded Abraham to give TITHES to Melchizedek?


Wey bari_kade? We need serious help here O! You've inspired me to go read the OT deeply after your debate on the Sabbath Law; and you cannot leave me hanging here like that O!! 

@D.baddie,

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]So here we go. Yes! it costs money to do anything here on earth. Money CAN'T be ruled out of any matter. to claim otherwise would be a delusion.[/quote]TV01, wey you? Come talk to your brother O!  

Em, D.baddie, I read somewhere that TV01 doesn't think so. The preaching of the Gospel doesn't require money; or something to that effect, he has said before - and I may partly agree with both of you. . . until you explicate what you both and either mean.


[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Hey! We love God because He first loved us. we give because He gave for us. Jesus gave us a new commandment: he actually said the law is summed up in it; love thy neighbour as much as you would yourself.[/quote]Slow down first. Since we give because He first gave us, where do you draw the line? Is that not the same "mandatory" giving that some people complain against?

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Look, whatever you claim to be doing for God, if it isn't in done in love, does not count! you may say 'oh! i'm exercising faith, ' but brethren, compared with love, faith is a small issue. remember "there abideth these 3: Faith, Hope and Love. And the greatest of these is love".
you want to pay tithe? Pay it! But why do you do it? do you know?[/quote]Okay. So if someone "pay" tithes in love, then according to you there's no wahala, abi? Can I ask you: do you pay anything - tithes, free-will, offerings, givings, etc? Why do you do it?

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Don't misunderstand me. God DOES require some action on the part of the believer, but the motive is really what he's concerned about.[/quote]God requires NOTHING! To slip in the idea of a "require" here is to make a simple response of worship actually mandatory.

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Why do you pay your tithe? To get a blessing? to prove your commitment to God? To enjoy a special type of fellowship with the Spirit? Then if so, it's just dead work: no rewards, my friend.[/quote]Same dead works if you make tithing or any other type of giving a thing to be classed as "God requires".

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Or do you do it because you have a made a choice of love? to give because you Know He gave for you? Because you understand the needs of church administration and you want to be a part of it? Because you love the Lord and would do anything for His body?
Look, do nothing without understanding. God is not a God of 'zombies'. People who go "Pastor said thus. Let's do thus"[/quote]The argument so far has not been based on what pastor said. We're examining what God's Word teaches. I think it is high time we stop this excuse of quickly blaming the flawed argument against tithes and other giving on what anyone says. To continue to do so weaken the persuasions of those who have nothing more than such excuses.

My Pastor does not have to sound it to me before I give or tithe. Even if another pastor disavows tithing because he's playing his blame-game on another pastor who said thus-and-thus, then again the latter pastor is a complainer rather than doing what God called him to do.

[quote author=D.baddie link=topic=272.msg1205740#msg1205740 date=1181913086]Worship God with all your heart, soul and  might: In other words be acutely aware of all that you do. Wisdom is not far. it's free.
So much to be said, but I'm still at the office.[/quote]Tithes and givings are pat of our worship. Hebrews 13:16.

@Hnd-holder,

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205718#msg1205718 date=1181912754]"Paul was inspired by God's Holy Spirit to declare that "God loves a cheerful giver" (II Cor.9:7). Why was not Paul inspired by God’s Holy Spirit to declare that, "God loves a cheerful tithe-payer?"[/quote]If Paul were to write instead that God loves a cheerful "free-will giver", others would come up and argue again as to why Paul was not inspired to write instead that God loves a cheerful "simply-giver" or a cheerful "sacrificer" or "communicator", etc.

This is like arguing as to why Jesus did not say clearly that He is God; or why He didn't say that He is the Lamb of God.

What Paul was inspired to write is clearly a divine principle that covers all kinds of giving - tithes, free-will, etc. To strain at a gnat of hoping that Paul would have been inspired to write something instead, is the reason why so many people still miss the gist of what Scriptureteaches.

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205718#msg1205718 date=1181912754]In fact, why does not Paul mention the words tithe, tithes, or tithing in any of His thirteen epistles—not once? (Paul did not write the book of Hebrews, II Thes. 3:17)."[/quote]He indicated what it, I believe, in I Cor. 16:2. But because many people have a default mindset to argue against tithes, they also miss it. What did Paul mean in that verse by "as God hath prospered him"?

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=272.msg1205726#msg1205726 date=1181912865]"But WOE unto you Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" (Luke 11:42).[/quote]I'm glad for your sake that you remembered to quote Luke 11:42. Now, read it again as well in Matt. 23:23 --

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

I hope you can see what the Lord pointed out in those verses?

"These ye ought to have done" and also "do not leave the other undone!"

Do these - do the others as well.

Tithing should not take precedence over the weigtier matters of the Law.

At least that's where they trust to find their hearts desires before looking eslewhere!

Horus:
@stimulus NOW i will repost even MORE articles
It is you who is racist against Africans,STOP LICKING WHITES PEOPLES ASS

It is not surprising that your ignorance is incurable. There are no white people, did you say?

It does not matter how many articles more you plagiarize and repost on the Forum. Just get done with your black - brown racism, Horus: it embarrasses your IQ and belittles your existence.